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Ricin Hard to Detect, Protect Against

Aired February 03, 2004 - 14:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities on Capitol Hill said they have not found any signs of ricin in the mail on the House side of the Hill. House buildings will remain open. Not so, of course, on the Senate side after the discovery of some suspicious powder that may in fact be laced with ricin.
Now ricin is relatively easy to make, relatively hard to detect. And a very small amount can be lethal, whether through injection, ingestion, and maybe through inhalation, although it takes a lot to create a problem if you're inhaling it.

Ricin poisoning, however, not contagious and ricin is not considered a weapons of mass destruction. Which brings us to our national security analyst, Ken Robinson, here in Atlanta to talk a little bite more about what the motives might be behind all this.

Ken, good to have you with us here in Atlanta. In this case, are we talking about a weapons of mass destruction or disruption?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that's been opined, that it could be a weapon of disruption. One of the challenges that exist is trying to determine the lethality of the ricin. They are doing tests right now, they have done over eight tests. And they are trying to determine whether what they are detecting is a precursor to the castor bean, or whether they are detecting an actual weaponized bit of powder which can be deadly.

O'BRIEN: It's not a very good WMD in a battlefield scenario, is it? In which case it makes one wonder about the motivation might be in this case.

ROBINSON: One of the things talked about right now is the concern that there may be an issue going on in terrorism in general throughout the United States and overseas where we have seen a lot of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that's been collected naming specific airline flights.

O'BRIEN: Signal intelligence, in other words, wire tap-type stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: The National Security Agency has picked this up and they've also seen an enormous amount of threat warnings that have gone out. And the question that's being asked is the intelligence communities being jerked around? Could it possibly be that terrorist organizations are using our own system against us, trying to wear us out by crying wolf?

O'BRIEN: OK, well in other words, a psychological operation which is precisely aimed at weaknesses and our vulnerabilities. In which case what is the measure of success? the fact that buildings are closed and hearings are canceled? Flights are canceled? Does that mean they're succeeding??

ROBINSON: Absolutely. That's the challenge of this type of terrorism if it's information operations, if it's information warfare on the part of the terrorist because you don't even have to have it be an actual agent because the first responders have to go through the same period of inspection, analysis, type of isolation, turning off the H-VAC systems in the buildings. So it has the net same result.

O'BRIEN: So it's a very effective tool if you're a terrorist. And it's also a very difficult thing to guard against because you 're into this catch-22. When you hear of something that might happen, you are compelled to respond in some way.

ROBINSON: And the intelligence community has an enormously difficult task because they have to look at terrorist organizations' capabilities and terrorist organizations' intent.

And terrorists, in a general rule, have their own vote. They get to vote when they decide what they want to do and where they want to do it. So predictive analysis doesn't help.

And in a biological case it's always dangerous because the biological agents are incipient. And generally, you don't have event recognition like you do with a bomb or a chemical spill. So in this case the very fact that they saw what looked like a hazard caused them to go through this nut roll.

O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson, national security analyst for us, appreciate your guidance on all of that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 3, 2004 - 14:24   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities on Capitol Hill said they have not found any signs of ricin in the mail on the House side of the Hill. House buildings will remain open. Not so, of course, on the Senate side after the discovery of some suspicious powder that may in fact be laced with ricin.
Now ricin is relatively easy to make, relatively hard to detect. And a very small amount can be lethal, whether through injection, ingestion, and maybe through inhalation, although it takes a lot to create a problem if you're inhaling it.

Ricin poisoning, however, not contagious and ricin is not considered a weapons of mass destruction. Which brings us to our national security analyst, Ken Robinson, here in Atlanta to talk a little bite more about what the motives might be behind all this.

Ken, good to have you with us here in Atlanta. In this case, are we talking about a weapons of mass destruction or disruption?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that's been opined, that it could be a weapon of disruption. One of the challenges that exist is trying to determine the lethality of the ricin. They are doing tests right now, they have done over eight tests. And they are trying to determine whether what they are detecting is a precursor to the castor bean, or whether they are detecting an actual weaponized bit of powder which can be deadly.

O'BRIEN: It's not a very good WMD in a battlefield scenario, is it? In which case it makes one wonder about the motivation might be in this case.

ROBINSON: One of the things talked about right now is the concern that there may be an issue going on in terrorism in general throughout the United States and overseas where we have seen a lot of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that's been collected naming specific airline flights.

O'BRIEN: Signal intelligence, in other words, wire tap-type stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: The National Security Agency has picked this up and they've also seen an enormous amount of threat warnings that have gone out. And the question that's being asked is the intelligence communities being jerked around? Could it possibly be that terrorist organizations are using our own system against us, trying to wear us out by crying wolf?

O'BRIEN: OK, well in other words, a psychological operation which is precisely aimed at weaknesses and our vulnerabilities. In which case what is the measure of success? the fact that buildings are closed and hearings are canceled? Flights are canceled? Does that mean they're succeeding??

ROBINSON: Absolutely. That's the challenge of this type of terrorism if it's information operations, if it's information warfare on the part of the terrorist because you don't even have to have it be an actual agent because the first responders have to go through the same period of inspection, analysis, type of isolation, turning off the H-VAC systems in the buildings. So it has the net same result.

O'BRIEN: So it's a very effective tool if you're a terrorist. And it's also a very difficult thing to guard against because you 're into this catch-22. When you hear of something that might happen, you are compelled to respond in some way.

ROBINSON: And the intelligence community has an enormously difficult task because they have to look at terrorist organizations' capabilities and terrorist organizations' intent.

And terrorists, in a general rule, have their own vote. They get to vote when they decide what they want to do and where they want to do it. So predictive analysis doesn't help.

And in a biological case it's always dangerous because the biological agents are incipient. And generally, you don't have event recognition like you do with a bomb or a chemical spill. So in this case the very fact that they saw what looked like a hazard caused them to go through this nut roll.

O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson, national security analyst for us, appreciate your guidance on all of that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com