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Ricin Investigation

Aired February 04, 2004 - 13:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Sherlock Holmes used a magnifying glass, but that won't work in bioterrorism obviously. Captain Chris Wessels of the Atlanta Fire Department joins us now. He has the high- tech tool that I guess first responders can use to make the decisions when there is a biochemical scare. Plain and simple, that's how you put it.
CAPT. CHRIS WESSELS, ATL. FIRE DEPT.: Pretty much. And basically, it uses infrared technology, also with labors. And it's no calibration required, so it's very easy to use in the field. And we have a laptop with a computer database, and as long as the chemical or the substance is in our database, we can get a pretty accurate analysis in the field of what it is.

PHILLIPS: OK, you've kind of set up exactly what the device is. It's pretty small, it's compact; you can kind of take it wherever you want to go. Right now, the guys are actually putting together the materials.

But right now, Matt is actually getting his protective gear on. Why don't you tell me why this is so important when you respond to an incident. Let's move off the little system and go back to Matt in his protective gear and tell us, Captain, what he's wearing and what this protects him from.

WESSELS: What he's wearing now is a nonencapsulated level B, level protection, which means the breathing apparatus is on the outside of the suit. The best level protection we have is what's called a level a. That's when you see, basically they're totally encapsulated in the suit. And for something like a possible biological agent, or you know, an unknown powder substance, we usually go with this level B protection. And it protects the skin of the responder, also the respiratory.

If we're more concerned of a higher-level hazard, we go with level a, which is totally encapsulated. It's basically like its own environment within a suit.

PHILLIPS: Let's say you had to respond in Washington D.C., that you were the ones that were there. What will this protective gear -- this will make sure if it is indeed ricin, he will come out of it breathing OK, feeling OK.

WESSELS: Right, the one thing this won't protect him from is any kind of a vapor, so if we're worried about a vapor problem, or a product that's emitting a vapor, we go with a higher level. But for something like a ricin scare, or suspicious powder or anthrax scare, we go with this level of protection. It's protecting the skin, which is obviously route of entry for some of the products, and the most important it's protecting the respiratory product.

PHILLIPS: All right, and of course we gave you guys product to test. We're not telling you what it is. It's a wide, powdery substance. Now the is Matt the one that's actually who will use this, use this system and test, or are we going to have someone else do it?

WESSELS: Actually, that's actually Chris in the suit. And we've got Matt and Earl are going to be demonstrating to us how to...

PHILLIPS: Sorry about that, Matt, I couldn't see you. Chris was all bundled up. So there we go. We have Chris in the suit.

Now, Matt, he's going to go ahead and put us through the system here, the substance there that we gave them in the plastic bag. All right, now tell me how this works -- you come into a scene, you find the substance.

WESSELS: Right, and you set the machine up. It's relatively simple to set up. You clear it out and get a background level on it, and then you take your substance. And really, it only takes one or two grains of a powder substance and just a drop of a liquid, a very small amount to get an accurate reading. Once they get it on the sensor eye, as you can see with the powder, then they're going to basically use the little clamp devices that basically just mashes the product very tightly very against the sensor eye so that you can get a good read.

PHILLIPS: The sensor eye is giving you kind of -- it's magnifying what this substance is, reading what it is, is that right?

WESSELS: Right. The screen there is giving us a verification that we have a good sample. And then Earl with the laptop will start to do the analyzing process, and it takes a few second. But you analyze it, what the machine will do, based on the database, it will give you a percentage of accuracy, or a predictability of how accurate your sample is, as to what it compared to in the database.

PHILLIPS: All right, so right now, Earl is just monitoring whatever's coming through the infrared is moving into the computer system.

WESSELS: Right.

PHILLIPS: And tell me what we're looking at right here on the screen.

WESSELS: You're looking at a baseline graph right now. And what happens, once it identifies the product, it will give you a comparison, a baseline graph of that product, as well as the graph of the product that is analyzed, and then you can kind of blend the two together to see exactly how close -- it will also give you a percentage on the level of accuracy. We're looking to verify that something's not, say, for instance, a biological agent or some type of chem agent. We're looking for a pretty high level of accuracy before we're going to verify. Of course we'd also still send the sample off. A lot of times we'll get levels of accuracy way up in the 90s.

PHILLIPS: Wow, actually saying something is 99 percent sure it's water or it's powder or whatever.

WESSELS: Right, the main thing is you can add things to the database. We've done it at the fire station. As a matter of fact, one call we had, it ended up being onion powder, like you use for cooking.

PHILLIPS: This is a call you had here in Atlanta.

WESSELS: Right, and so we added that to the database. And you can even put brand specific. You can put whatever the brand is, onion powder or black pepper.

PHILLIPS: So if it came across again, it would upon up immediately that that's what it was.

WESSELS: Right. So that's the other nice thing about the unit is actually using it in the field, we can add products. Provided we know for sure that the product, we can add it to our database, and that kind of, you know, expands our capabilities a little bit more.

PHILLIPS: OK, Earl, did you figure out what we gave you as a substance there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arm & Hammer Baking Soda.

PHILLIPS: Hey. Very good. It's Arm & Hammer. Now was that already in your system, Earl?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.

PHILLIPS: OK, so it popped right up. And how long did that take, Early?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five seconds.

PHILLIPS: Wow, five seconds, that's amazing.

WESSELS: Than that's very useful, especially if somebody, you know, the white powders around, and so we try to have a lot in the database of common, ordinary things that you're going to find in a home or office -- coffee creamer, sugar, salt, things like that, that could be mistaken.

Back in 2001, when we lad all the anthrax scares, things like even cleansing materials in a bathroom that were left behind or not cleaned up, we had a lot of calls for things like that. And we didn't have this until then, so it made it a lot more difficult for us.

PHILLIPS: Here we are with the Atlanta Fire Department. This is squad four. Captain Chris Wessels. And in the suit, Chris. Of course, we couldn't recognize. There we go. And Earl and Matt. You guys, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming in and demonstrating how this works. Five seconds, that's incredible. Thanks a lot, captain.

WESSELS: You're welcome, our pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 4, 2004 - 13:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Sherlock Holmes used a magnifying glass, but that won't work in bioterrorism obviously. Captain Chris Wessels of the Atlanta Fire Department joins us now. He has the high- tech tool that I guess first responders can use to make the decisions when there is a biochemical scare. Plain and simple, that's how you put it.
CAPT. CHRIS WESSELS, ATL. FIRE DEPT.: Pretty much. And basically, it uses infrared technology, also with labors. And it's no calibration required, so it's very easy to use in the field. And we have a laptop with a computer database, and as long as the chemical or the substance is in our database, we can get a pretty accurate analysis in the field of what it is.

PHILLIPS: OK, you've kind of set up exactly what the device is. It's pretty small, it's compact; you can kind of take it wherever you want to go. Right now, the guys are actually putting together the materials.

But right now, Matt is actually getting his protective gear on. Why don't you tell me why this is so important when you respond to an incident. Let's move off the little system and go back to Matt in his protective gear and tell us, Captain, what he's wearing and what this protects him from.

WESSELS: What he's wearing now is a nonencapsulated level B, level protection, which means the breathing apparatus is on the outside of the suit. The best level protection we have is what's called a level a. That's when you see, basically they're totally encapsulated in the suit. And for something like a possible biological agent, or you know, an unknown powder substance, we usually go with this level B protection. And it protects the skin of the responder, also the respiratory.

If we're more concerned of a higher-level hazard, we go with level a, which is totally encapsulated. It's basically like its own environment within a suit.

PHILLIPS: Let's say you had to respond in Washington D.C., that you were the ones that were there. What will this protective gear -- this will make sure if it is indeed ricin, he will come out of it breathing OK, feeling OK.

WESSELS: Right, the one thing this won't protect him from is any kind of a vapor, so if we're worried about a vapor problem, or a product that's emitting a vapor, we go with a higher level. But for something like a ricin scare, or suspicious powder or anthrax scare, we go with this level of protection. It's protecting the skin, which is obviously route of entry for some of the products, and the most important it's protecting the respiratory product.

PHILLIPS: All right, and of course we gave you guys product to test. We're not telling you what it is. It's a wide, powdery substance. Now the is Matt the one that's actually who will use this, use this system and test, or are we going to have someone else do it?

WESSELS: Actually, that's actually Chris in the suit. And we've got Matt and Earl are going to be demonstrating to us how to...

PHILLIPS: Sorry about that, Matt, I couldn't see you. Chris was all bundled up. So there we go. We have Chris in the suit.

Now, Matt, he's going to go ahead and put us through the system here, the substance there that we gave them in the plastic bag. All right, now tell me how this works -- you come into a scene, you find the substance.

WESSELS: Right, and you set the machine up. It's relatively simple to set up. You clear it out and get a background level on it, and then you take your substance. And really, it only takes one or two grains of a powder substance and just a drop of a liquid, a very small amount to get an accurate reading. Once they get it on the sensor eye, as you can see with the powder, then they're going to basically use the little clamp devices that basically just mashes the product very tightly very against the sensor eye so that you can get a good read.

PHILLIPS: The sensor eye is giving you kind of -- it's magnifying what this substance is, reading what it is, is that right?

WESSELS: Right. The screen there is giving us a verification that we have a good sample. And then Earl with the laptop will start to do the analyzing process, and it takes a few second. But you analyze it, what the machine will do, based on the database, it will give you a percentage of accuracy, or a predictability of how accurate your sample is, as to what it compared to in the database.

PHILLIPS: All right, so right now, Earl is just monitoring whatever's coming through the infrared is moving into the computer system.

WESSELS: Right.

PHILLIPS: And tell me what we're looking at right here on the screen.

WESSELS: You're looking at a baseline graph right now. And what happens, once it identifies the product, it will give you a comparison, a baseline graph of that product, as well as the graph of the product that is analyzed, and then you can kind of blend the two together to see exactly how close -- it will also give you a percentage on the level of accuracy. We're looking to verify that something's not, say, for instance, a biological agent or some type of chem agent. We're looking for a pretty high level of accuracy before we're going to verify. Of course we'd also still send the sample off. A lot of times we'll get levels of accuracy way up in the 90s.

PHILLIPS: Wow, actually saying something is 99 percent sure it's water or it's powder or whatever.

WESSELS: Right, the main thing is you can add things to the database. We've done it at the fire station. As a matter of fact, one call we had, it ended up being onion powder, like you use for cooking.

PHILLIPS: This is a call you had here in Atlanta.

WESSELS: Right, and so we added that to the database. And you can even put brand specific. You can put whatever the brand is, onion powder or black pepper.

PHILLIPS: So if it came across again, it would upon up immediately that that's what it was.

WESSELS: Right. So that's the other nice thing about the unit is actually using it in the field, we can add products. Provided we know for sure that the product, we can add it to our database, and that kind of, you know, expands our capabilities a little bit more.

PHILLIPS: OK, Earl, did you figure out what we gave you as a substance there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arm & Hammer Baking Soda.

PHILLIPS: Hey. Very good. It's Arm & Hammer. Now was that already in your system, Earl?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.

PHILLIPS: OK, so it popped right up. And how long did that take, Early?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five seconds.

PHILLIPS: Wow, five seconds, that's amazing.

WESSELS: Than that's very useful, especially if somebody, you know, the white powders around, and so we try to have a lot in the database of common, ordinary things that you're going to find in a home or office -- coffee creamer, sugar, salt, things like that, that could be mistaken.

Back in 2001, when we lad all the anthrax scares, things like even cleansing materials in a bathroom that were left behind or not cleaned up, we had a lot of calls for things like that. And we didn't have this until then, so it made it a lot more difficult for us.

PHILLIPS: Here we are with the Atlanta Fire Department. This is squad four. Captain Chris Wessels. And in the suit, Chris. Of course, we couldn't recognize. There we go. And Earl and Matt. You guys, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming in and demonstrating how this works. Five seconds, that's incredible. Thanks a lot, captain.

WESSELS: You're welcome, our pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com