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Interview With Jim Wilkinson
Aired February 11, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour, the Bush administration's case for containing nuclears. In just about 90 minutes, the president will deliver what aides are calling a major address on the growing threat from black market nuclear technology.
By way of example, he's expected to cite the Pakistani expertise and materials that found their way to Libya, Iran and North Korea, though North Korea, seen here, says it's a lie. And Libya has supposedly come clean, declaring its WMD ambitions are behind them.
Joining us now with more, deputy assistant to the president and counselor to the national security adviser Jim Wilkinson. Jim, good to see you.
JIM WILKINSON, DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well a lot of critics are asking, with Pakistan, supposedly a U.S. ally, Musharraf, Bush, a good relationship. How much did the U.S. really know about Dr. Khan and the transfers that were taking place and the selling of secrets?
WILKINSON: We knew quite a bit. And the president will speak in very stark and clear terms about what we knew today, about how this is an intelligence victory for all allies.
We knew a lot, and I'll tell you how much we knew. The fact that our intelligence services, working with our U.K. allies and others, were able to infiltrate this network, it allowed us to seize a ship that the president will speak about today, a ship called the BBC China that was bound for Libya. It was a ship full of nuclear components and parts for nuclear weapons program.
That ship was seized. The Germans and the Italians worked through the Proliferations Security Initiative with U.S. forces. And that material's now safe.
I will remind you that because of our intelligence services' infiltration of this network, 55,000 pounds of nuclear-related equipment is now out of Libya and sitting in Oakridge, Tennessee being analyzed. I would further let you know that there will be more equipment coming.
But the president will speak about just exactly how we infiltrated the A.Q. Khan network.
I will say that Pakistan is doing a good job. They are working and interrogating people with this network. And they want to get to the bottom of this and take away these threats as well.
PHILLIPS: Well, Jim, you talk about intel victories. What are we going to hear about enforcement though? Because obviously, the loopholes in the system have been exploited here.
WILKINSON: You will hear about enforcement. You'll hear, for example, that the nonproliferation treaty that was signed some 30 years ago has provided a loophole to allow nations like Iran and North Korea to produce nuclear weapons-related materials under the cloak of legitimacy. To pretend that these are for civilian purposes, yet use them for weapons programs which threaten us all.
The president will talk today about closing that leap hole. He'll also talk about how we modernize the proliferation laws to meet the new threat.
You know, Kyra, you and I were raised in a world where the Soviets wanted us to know about their nuclear threat, they wanted us to see that they had 25,000 weapons.
Today there are two paths. You either have secretive regimes like Iraq or North Korea or Iran who pursue these weapons in secret. Or you have these new, shadowy, underworld networks, like A.Q. Khan, that sell these weapons all over the world.
The president wants to combat both of these. And that's what he'll speak about today. He'll make seven new announcements to strengthen those laws.
PHILLIPS: Well how will countries, how will certain individuals be held accountable for treaty-cheating? How serious will the punishment be?
WILKINSON: Well they're being held accountable. First off, we continue to see -- I don't want to tell you everything. We continue to have evidence that the network is doing its activities, we continue to get more information on that.
But you can bet they'll be held accountable. This is a president who's made it very clear to regimes across the world, you have a choice. You can choose to pursue these weapons at great pearl peril, as Saddam Hussein found out. Or you can give up these weapons and be on a path to better relations with the United States and the rest of the other community.
(CROSSTALK)
WILKINSON: ... services who are working around the clock to find these materials and the president will speak about some of their great work today.
PHILLIPS: And you talk about pursuing those materials. Let's talk about President Bus and pursuing research on bunker-buster nuclear weapons for the sake of the American arsenal. How do you justify a double standard here?
WILKINSON: There is no double standard. There is no comparison.
There are people like Saddam Hussein and others who would like to do this country harm, who would like to use anthrax and would like to use nuclear weapons and other sorts of weapons of mass destruction, to hurt all free-loving people.
So there is no double standard. We're a nation who -- who wants to take these threats anyway.
PHILLIPS: Jim, my final question. We've heard about Libya, Iran, Dr. Khan, Pakistan. What about these other countries being named? Saudi Arabia, Syria? Will there be talk about more countries on this list of countries that have received nuclear secrets?
WILKINSON: The president will focus today on these new policies he's proposing to reform the IAEA and some of our outdated nonproliferation statutes and regulations.
He will talk about the successes in Libya, he will mention Iran and North Korea. But I'll let the president make his speech today.
WILKINSON: Jim Wilkinson, assistant to the president, counselor to the national security adviser, we appreciate your time today.
WILKINSON: Yes, ma'am.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 11, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour, the Bush administration's case for containing nuclears. In just about 90 minutes, the president will deliver what aides are calling a major address on the growing threat from black market nuclear technology.
By way of example, he's expected to cite the Pakistani expertise and materials that found their way to Libya, Iran and North Korea, though North Korea, seen here, says it's a lie. And Libya has supposedly come clean, declaring its WMD ambitions are behind them.
Joining us now with more, deputy assistant to the president and counselor to the national security adviser Jim Wilkinson. Jim, good to see you.
JIM WILKINSON, DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well a lot of critics are asking, with Pakistan, supposedly a U.S. ally, Musharraf, Bush, a good relationship. How much did the U.S. really know about Dr. Khan and the transfers that were taking place and the selling of secrets?
WILKINSON: We knew quite a bit. And the president will speak in very stark and clear terms about what we knew today, about how this is an intelligence victory for all allies.
We knew a lot, and I'll tell you how much we knew. The fact that our intelligence services, working with our U.K. allies and others, were able to infiltrate this network, it allowed us to seize a ship that the president will speak about today, a ship called the BBC China that was bound for Libya. It was a ship full of nuclear components and parts for nuclear weapons program.
That ship was seized. The Germans and the Italians worked through the Proliferations Security Initiative with U.S. forces. And that material's now safe.
I will remind you that because of our intelligence services' infiltration of this network, 55,000 pounds of nuclear-related equipment is now out of Libya and sitting in Oakridge, Tennessee being analyzed. I would further let you know that there will be more equipment coming.
But the president will speak about just exactly how we infiltrated the A.Q. Khan network.
I will say that Pakistan is doing a good job. They are working and interrogating people with this network. And they want to get to the bottom of this and take away these threats as well.
PHILLIPS: Well, Jim, you talk about intel victories. What are we going to hear about enforcement though? Because obviously, the loopholes in the system have been exploited here.
WILKINSON: You will hear about enforcement. You'll hear, for example, that the nonproliferation treaty that was signed some 30 years ago has provided a loophole to allow nations like Iran and North Korea to produce nuclear weapons-related materials under the cloak of legitimacy. To pretend that these are for civilian purposes, yet use them for weapons programs which threaten us all.
The president will talk today about closing that leap hole. He'll also talk about how we modernize the proliferation laws to meet the new threat.
You know, Kyra, you and I were raised in a world where the Soviets wanted us to know about their nuclear threat, they wanted us to see that they had 25,000 weapons.
Today there are two paths. You either have secretive regimes like Iraq or North Korea or Iran who pursue these weapons in secret. Or you have these new, shadowy, underworld networks, like A.Q. Khan, that sell these weapons all over the world.
The president wants to combat both of these. And that's what he'll speak about today. He'll make seven new announcements to strengthen those laws.
PHILLIPS: Well how will countries, how will certain individuals be held accountable for treaty-cheating? How serious will the punishment be?
WILKINSON: Well they're being held accountable. First off, we continue to see -- I don't want to tell you everything. We continue to have evidence that the network is doing its activities, we continue to get more information on that.
But you can bet they'll be held accountable. This is a president who's made it very clear to regimes across the world, you have a choice. You can choose to pursue these weapons at great pearl peril, as Saddam Hussein found out. Or you can give up these weapons and be on a path to better relations with the United States and the rest of the other community.
(CROSSTALK)
WILKINSON: ... services who are working around the clock to find these materials and the president will speak about some of their great work today.
PHILLIPS: And you talk about pursuing those materials. Let's talk about President Bus and pursuing research on bunker-buster nuclear weapons for the sake of the American arsenal. How do you justify a double standard here?
WILKINSON: There is no double standard. There is no comparison.
There are people like Saddam Hussein and others who would like to do this country harm, who would like to use anthrax and would like to use nuclear weapons and other sorts of weapons of mass destruction, to hurt all free-loving people.
So there is no double standard. We're a nation who -- who wants to take these threats anyway.
PHILLIPS: Jim, my final question. We've heard about Libya, Iran, Dr. Khan, Pakistan. What about these other countries being named? Saudi Arabia, Syria? Will there be talk about more countries on this list of countries that have received nuclear secrets?
WILKINSON: The president will focus today on these new policies he's proposing to reform the IAEA and some of our outdated nonproliferation statutes and regulations.
He will talk about the successes in Libya, he will mention Iran and North Korea. But I'll let the president make his speech today.
WILKINSON: Jim Wilkinson, assistant to the president, counselor to the national security adviser, we appreciate your time today.
WILKINSON: Yes, ma'am.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
