Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

What Will Bush Say About Iraq's Arms?

Aired February 11, 2004 - 14:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The nuclear genie has been out of the bottle for generations. And each generation has agonized how to best contain it, control it or conceal it. Moments from now, President Bush will call for a crack down on the spread of nuclear know-how.
Some insights now from CNN's John King at the White House, Christiane Amanpour in London, and in our Washington bureau, former U.N. weapons inspector, currently the head of the Institute for Science and International Security and an expert on such matters, David Albright.

John King, let's begin with you. Just give us a preview on what we can expect from the president. Is he offering up a plan for a new treaty or is he offering up something else by way of a crack down in this realm?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a bit of each of those approaches, Miles. The president will essentially say that all of the protocols and treaties in place the last 40 years or so simply don't work. And he will get into great detail about the black market activities that the United States has found out about in Pakistan, selling nuclear secrets to Libya, to Iran, to North Korea to make his case that these protocols simply have collapsed.

And it's time for the United Nations to do more, time for the International Atomic Energy Agency to do more. But most of all, time for key nations around the world that have this technology, whether that be the United States or China or France or anyone else, to simply stop selling it.

The president will say that in this post-September 11 world -- and you mentioned why now? In the post-Cold War world when do you not have the deterrent to stop someone from using a nuclear weapon, the president will say essentially that we have to go back to the drawing board and decide again how to adopt tougher inspections, tougher protocols and tougher disciplines, simply, to keep this technology out of the hands of what the president will say are the or the potential to get it into the hands of terrorists and certainly the potential which the president will say is very real now to have it go to what he says are rouge nations.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, John.

Christiane, last time the president asked the world for help, he was on the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. And the response was tepid, to say the least. This is an entirely different matter. We're talking about nonproliferation issues which can affect anyone, anytime. Do you suspect the president's speech will be well received overseas?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it depends on what country you're talking about, clearly. But certainly a lot of his speech in certain issues is going to be directed at the one international body that is the nuclear watchdog, IAEA, as John mentioned.

And it seems that Secretary Powell has today called the director general of the IAEA, Dr. ElBaradei, earlier today -- they didn't even know the speech was coming. They read about it in "The New York Times."

But it appears according to a spokeswoman there that one of the things that the president will propose and call for -- and this will directly affect the IAEA's relationships with all these countries -- is that the additional protocol, the so-called additional protocol to the NPT, be a condition for any country that wants to acquire nuclear technology or nuclear fuel. And this is welcome by the IAEA.

Right now there are I think something like 80 countries that have signed the addition at protocol. Only 38 have ratified it. It's a voluntary protocol, if you like. It's not legal such as the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, the NPT.

And so what the IAEA wants is this kind of leverage and this kind of ability to see the big picture that that additional protocol provides. Right now, Iran and Libya have just signed on to that and that's important.

And it means that they can go, the IAEA, anywhere, anytime to any country and any program, even those that are non-declared. They can ask for documents, they can ask for import/export evidence, they can ask for pretty much whatever they want to get a picture on what's going on.

Of course all of this to pry to prevent any countries from weaponizing and turning their nuclear programs into bomb-making programs.

What ElBaradei, we've been told -- CNN has been told, ElBaradei will call tomorrow for the additional protocol to become a legal requirement on all nations of the world. And thus be able to strengthen the ability to keep an eye on what's going on.

O'BRIEN: David Albright, let me ask you this. No matter what the president proposes today, do you think they're going to listen in North Korea?

DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think they'll listen. I mean will they accept it or not, who knows?

But I think what President Bush is clearly trying to do is build pressure on North Korea while at the same time trying to build support, international support for a set of activities that would pressurize North Korea to roll back its program.

And I look forward to the speech and hope that he really is trying to find a way to deal with some of these very big picture issues that have faced -- or I should say plagued proliferation efforts. And that I think that that if he does reach out and seek support, I think he'll find willing partners.

And I think Christiane pointed out the IAEA would like to cooperate more with the administration. There has been friction and they're looking to have greater cooperation. I think many nations would like to have that.

On the other hand, you have to worry that this will still have some of the flavor of the Bush administration. There will be the focus on what I call kind of coalition of the willing proposals.

And I don't think there will be very much about the other side of nonproliferation, which is the other states taking steps to reduce their nuclear arsenals.

But nonetheless, I think that President Bush should be making a good effort to try to wrestle with is very serious proliferation problems facing us in Iran, North Korea, in Pakistan. And I also hope that in talking about Pakistan, we will be able to see our intelligence communities acting in a good way. And that will help build -- rebuild some of their credibility.

O'BRIEN: David, if you had to pick one hole in the system to plug, the system of trying to stop proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, what would it be?

ALBRIGHT: Well, again, it's motivated by Pakistan. There is many problems in the none proliferation regime. And i think John King pointed out rightly that there's very serious problems.

But I think the case of Pakistan shows that our export control system, the laws and regulations and international agreements to control the spread of illegal items through this underworld is woefully inadequate.

And I think that from my point of view, we need a treaty, we need universal acceptance this kind of activity is illegal, is banned, and there is some kind of organization to back it up.

I don't think the administration is going to go that far, by any means. But I think they are moving in that direction and they're realizing that the weakness in export control law in countries like Malaysia and other places threatens us all.

And that we have to have a much stronger system so that the wherewithal to make nuclear weapons doesn't spread into other nations and, God forbid, nuclear weapons design information doesn't spread into the hands of terrorists.

O'BRIEN: John King, there are some pessimists out there. Many people probably see the world in black and white terms, who would say there is no treaty in the world that's going to address this issue, that rogue nations will continue doing what rogue nations want to do, which is to pursue the nuclear option to put themselves in their view in a higher level on the world stage. What's the White House prepared to say on that?

KING: It's one of the reasons the president will not at least immediately propose just ripping up and starting over with a new proliferation treaty because he believes it would be too difficult to get the consensus you need.

The president agrees with that point, Miles. That in this world, he says there always will be somebody looking for it. That's why the president's perhaps most blatant challenge will be to the 40 countries called the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the United States among them...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... president is on the podium. Let's listen, we'll get back to you in a moment.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Aired February 11, 2004 - 14:23   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The nuclear genie has been out of the bottle for generations. And each generation has agonized how to best contain it, control it or conceal it. Moments from now, President Bush will call for a crack down on the spread of nuclear know-how.
Some insights now from CNN's John King at the White House, Christiane Amanpour in London, and in our Washington bureau, former U.N. weapons inspector, currently the head of the Institute for Science and International Security and an expert on such matters, David Albright.

John King, let's begin with you. Just give us a preview on what we can expect from the president. Is he offering up a plan for a new treaty or is he offering up something else by way of a crack down in this realm?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a bit of each of those approaches, Miles. The president will essentially say that all of the protocols and treaties in place the last 40 years or so simply don't work. And he will get into great detail about the black market activities that the United States has found out about in Pakistan, selling nuclear secrets to Libya, to Iran, to North Korea to make his case that these protocols simply have collapsed.

And it's time for the United Nations to do more, time for the International Atomic Energy Agency to do more. But most of all, time for key nations around the world that have this technology, whether that be the United States or China or France or anyone else, to simply stop selling it.

The president will say that in this post-September 11 world -- and you mentioned why now? In the post-Cold War world when do you not have the deterrent to stop someone from using a nuclear weapon, the president will say essentially that we have to go back to the drawing board and decide again how to adopt tougher inspections, tougher protocols and tougher disciplines, simply, to keep this technology out of the hands of what the president will say are the or the potential to get it into the hands of terrorists and certainly the potential which the president will say is very real now to have it go to what he says are rouge nations.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, John.

Christiane, last time the president asked the world for help, he was on the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. And the response was tepid, to say the least. This is an entirely different matter. We're talking about nonproliferation issues which can affect anyone, anytime. Do you suspect the president's speech will be well received overseas?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it depends on what country you're talking about, clearly. But certainly a lot of his speech in certain issues is going to be directed at the one international body that is the nuclear watchdog, IAEA, as John mentioned.

And it seems that Secretary Powell has today called the director general of the IAEA, Dr. ElBaradei, earlier today -- they didn't even know the speech was coming. They read about it in "The New York Times."

But it appears according to a spokeswoman there that one of the things that the president will propose and call for -- and this will directly affect the IAEA's relationships with all these countries -- is that the additional protocol, the so-called additional protocol to the NPT, be a condition for any country that wants to acquire nuclear technology or nuclear fuel. And this is welcome by the IAEA.

Right now there are I think something like 80 countries that have signed the addition at protocol. Only 38 have ratified it. It's a voluntary protocol, if you like. It's not legal such as the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, the NPT.

And so what the IAEA wants is this kind of leverage and this kind of ability to see the big picture that that additional protocol provides. Right now, Iran and Libya have just signed on to that and that's important.

And it means that they can go, the IAEA, anywhere, anytime to any country and any program, even those that are non-declared. They can ask for documents, they can ask for import/export evidence, they can ask for pretty much whatever they want to get a picture on what's going on.

Of course all of this to pry to prevent any countries from weaponizing and turning their nuclear programs into bomb-making programs.

What ElBaradei, we've been told -- CNN has been told, ElBaradei will call tomorrow for the additional protocol to become a legal requirement on all nations of the world. And thus be able to strengthen the ability to keep an eye on what's going on.

O'BRIEN: David Albright, let me ask you this. No matter what the president proposes today, do you think they're going to listen in North Korea?

DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think they'll listen. I mean will they accept it or not, who knows?

But I think what President Bush is clearly trying to do is build pressure on North Korea while at the same time trying to build support, international support for a set of activities that would pressurize North Korea to roll back its program.

And I look forward to the speech and hope that he really is trying to find a way to deal with some of these very big picture issues that have faced -- or I should say plagued proliferation efforts. And that I think that that if he does reach out and seek support, I think he'll find willing partners.

And I think Christiane pointed out the IAEA would like to cooperate more with the administration. There has been friction and they're looking to have greater cooperation. I think many nations would like to have that.

On the other hand, you have to worry that this will still have some of the flavor of the Bush administration. There will be the focus on what I call kind of coalition of the willing proposals.

And I don't think there will be very much about the other side of nonproliferation, which is the other states taking steps to reduce their nuclear arsenals.

But nonetheless, I think that President Bush should be making a good effort to try to wrestle with is very serious proliferation problems facing us in Iran, North Korea, in Pakistan. And I also hope that in talking about Pakistan, we will be able to see our intelligence communities acting in a good way. And that will help build -- rebuild some of their credibility.

O'BRIEN: David, if you had to pick one hole in the system to plug, the system of trying to stop proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, what would it be?

ALBRIGHT: Well, again, it's motivated by Pakistan. There is many problems in the none proliferation regime. And i think John King pointed out rightly that there's very serious problems.

But I think the case of Pakistan shows that our export control system, the laws and regulations and international agreements to control the spread of illegal items through this underworld is woefully inadequate.

And I think that from my point of view, we need a treaty, we need universal acceptance this kind of activity is illegal, is banned, and there is some kind of organization to back it up.

I don't think the administration is going to go that far, by any means. But I think they are moving in that direction and they're realizing that the weakness in export control law in countries like Malaysia and other places threatens us all.

And that we have to have a much stronger system so that the wherewithal to make nuclear weapons doesn't spread into other nations and, God forbid, nuclear weapons design information doesn't spread into the hands of terrorists.

O'BRIEN: John King, there are some pessimists out there. Many people probably see the world in black and white terms, who would say there is no treaty in the world that's going to address this issue, that rogue nations will continue doing what rogue nations want to do, which is to pursue the nuclear option to put themselves in their view in a higher level on the world stage. What's the White House prepared to say on that?

KING: It's one of the reasons the president will not at least immediately propose just ripping up and starting over with a new proliferation treaty because he believes it would be too difficult to get the consensus you need.

The president agrees with that point, Miles. That in this world, he says there always will be somebody looking for it. That's why the president's perhaps most blatant challenge will be to the 40 countries called the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the United States among them...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... president is on the podium. Let's listen, we'll get back to you in a moment.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com