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Making It Legal?

Aired February 17, 2004 - 14:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: But what happens when the newlyweds get home to L.A., lower Alabama? Currently 38 states have laws forbidding the recognition of gay marriage. President Bush says he'd support a constitutional amendment to prevent activist judges from redefining marriage.
We'll kick this around a little bit John Mayoue, an Atlanta attorney, and Susan Sommer in New York, a lawyer for LAMDA legal.

Susan, let's begin with you. Some would suggest that what gay marriage is all about really is all about gay divorce.

SUSAN SOMMER, LAMBDA LEGAL: No, I don't think that's it at all. I think it's about loving couples that have been together for many years wanting the same protections, rights and benefits of marriage, and the same dignity that comes with being part of that institution.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, all right. But the fact of the matter is, 50 percent of marriages do -- are torn asunder eventually. '

John, are we just creating more legal problems by introducing this into the legal system?

JOHN MAYOUE, FAMILY ATTY.: I think this charade in San Francisco is really going to create a legal chaos, because what you're really doing is giving someone a piece of paper that's not worth anything to take it to another state that does not recognize this as a legal entity. We don't recognize this as marriage.

And you have issues such as child custody, visitation, child support, alimony, property division, all of which are going to be in terrible, terrible flux because I'm coming from San Francisco with a certificate that means nothing in L.A., lower (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

O'BRIEN: Susan, I can only imagine the reaction in Alabama and other places when a couple produces a certificate which comes from San Francisco. I think there might be a few chuckles even, as they say. That doesn't mean anything around here. What really is going to happen to all these couples?

SOMMER: First of all, he think most of the people who are getting married in San Francisco over this historic weekend are people from San Francisco. Those who have come from elsewhere are just demonstrating how badly gay and lesbian couples want marriage.

And I think it remains to be seen what will happen in their local communities. There will and lot of pleasant surprises. Neighbors, friends, employers who will completely accept and respect these marriages.

And there will also be challenges, and it will all be sorted out in the end.

I think most people are hoping that in their own states, in their own home communities is where they can get married. That's where most gay and lesbian couples are waiting for that day to come when they can marry in their own home state.

O'BRIEN: John, as it stands right now, marriage certificates -- there's reciprocity, the legal term for one state following another state's laws. Is this an invitation for the federal government to get involved one way or another? And what sort of a recipe is that?

MAYOUE: It's recipe for disaster. This is an invitation we do not want to extend to the federal government because the states have always jealously protected their rights to regulate marriage.

Can first cousins marry? In some states yes, in some states no. Can you marry at age 16? In some states yes, in some states no.

This is not something that we want the federal government, I believe, to come in and redefine many, many thousands of years of tradition regarding marriage.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYOUE: I think if we do redefine it, I think it should be redefined with public input because my understanding is the public, including some very prominent people, President Clinton who signed the Defense of marriage Act, John Kerry, President Bush, in terms of voting against this probably would do so.

O'BRIEN: Susan, do you expect this is on its way ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court?

SOMMER: No. I think generally, these are questions that are being decided, as John pointed out, on the state level, in state courts, involving state constitutions, not the federal constitution.

It really has traditionally been a matter for the states to determine who is entitled to marry. I think states should -- and all constitutions of every state really compel that the families of gay and lesbian couples be accorded the same equality and dignity and access to marriage.

But I don't think it's a question for the federal government or the U.S. Supreme Court at this point, no.

O'BRIEN: John? Final word.

MAYOUE: I think that this issue in San Francisco is very harmful to the very debate. I think it's a charade where someone has taken it upon themselves to issue a junk license. Why don't they issue junk licenses to carry guns or something else they don't agree with?

I think it does a disservice to the debate to have it in this particular realm.

O'BRIEN: John Mayoue and Susan Sommer, thank you very much for sharing a little bit of this ongoing debate. We appreciate your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 17, 2004 - 14:19   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: But what happens when the newlyweds get home to L.A., lower Alabama? Currently 38 states have laws forbidding the recognition of gay marriage. President Bush says he'd support a constitutional amendment to prevent activist judges from redefining marriage.
We'll kick this around a little bit John Mayoue, an Atlanta attorney, and Susan Sommer in New York, a lawyer for LAMDA legal.

Susan, let's begin with you. Some would suggest that what gay marriage is all about really is all about gay divorce.

SUSAN SOMMER, LAMBDA LEGAL: No, I don't think that's it at all. I think it's about loving couples that have been together for many years wanting the same protections, rights and benefits of marriage, and the same dignity that comes with being part of that institution.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, all right. But the fact of the matter is, 50 percent of marriages do -- are torn asunder eventually. '

John, are we just creating more legal problems by introducing this into the legal system?

JOHN MAYOUE, FAMILY ATTY.: I think this charade in San Francisco is really going to create a legal chaos, because what you're really doing is giving someone a piece of paper that's not worth anything to take it to another state that does not recognize this as a legal entity. We don't recognize this as marriage.

And you have issues such as child custody, visitation, child support, alimony, property division, all of which are going to be in terrible, terrible flux because I'm coming from San Francisco with a certificate that means nothing in L.A., lower (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

O'BRIEN: Susan, I can only imagine the reaction in Alabama and other places when a couple produces a certificate which comes from San Francisco. I think there might be a few chuckles even, as they say. That doesn't mean anything around here. What really is going to happen to all these couples?

SOMMER: First of all, he think most of the people who are getting married in San Francisco over this historic weekend are people from San Francisco. Those who have come from elsewhere are just demonstrating how badly gay and lesbian couples want marriage.

And I think it remains to be seen what will happen in their local communities. There will and lot of pleasant surprises. Neighbors, friends, employers who will completely accept and respect these marriages.

And there will also be challenges, and it will all be sorted out in the end.

I think most people are hoping that in their own states, in their own home communities is where they can get married. That's where most gay and lesbian couples are waiting for that day to come when they can marry in their own home state.

O'BRIEN: John, as it stands right now, marriage certificates -- there's reciprocity, the legal term for one state following another state's laws. Is this an invitation for the federal government to get involved one way or another? And what sort of a recipe is that?

MAYOUE: It's recipe for disaster. This is an invitation we do not want to extend to the federal government because the states have always jealously protected their rights to regulate marriage.

Can first cousins marry? In some states yes, in some states no. Can you marry at age 16? In some states yes, in some states no.

This is not something that we want the federal government, I believe, to come in and redefine many, many thousands of years of tradition regarding marriage.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYOUE: I think if we do redefine it, I think it should be redefined with public input because my understanding is the public, including some very prominent people, President Clinton who signed the Defense of marriage Act, John Kerry, President Bush, in terms of voting against this probably would do so.

O'BRIEN: Susan, do you expect this is on its way ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court?

SOMMER: No. I think generally, these are questions that are being decided, as John pointed out, on the state level, in state courts, involving state constitutions, not the federal constitution.

It really has traditionally been a matter for the states to determine who is entitled to marry. I think states should -- and all constitutions of every state really compel that the families of gay and lesbian couples be accorded the same equality and dignity and access to marriage.

But I don't think it's a question for the federal government or the U.S. Supreme Court at this point, no.

O'BRIEN: John? Final word.

MAYOUE: I think that this issue in San Francisco is very harmful to the very debate. I think it's a charade where someone has taken it upon themselves to issue a junk license. Why don't they issue junk licenses to carry guns or something else they don't agree with?

I think it does a disservice to the debate to have it in this particular realm.

O'BRIEN: John Mayoue and Susan Sommer, thank you very much for sharing a little bit of this ongoing debate. We appreciate your time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com