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Live From...

Former Haitian President Aristide Lands in Jamaica

Aired March 15, 2004 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYSON NEAL, STUDENT: First thing I thought was that I was supposed to be on that train.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The aftermath of a terror blast. American students in Spain count their blessings. That's all new this half hour.

Also ahead, politics and terror. How President Bush and Senator Kerry will put their own spins on the global war on terror in their campaigns for the White House.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Those stories just ahead. First, some of the stories we're watching for you this hour.

Former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide landed Monday in Jamaica, back in the Caribbean. Jamaican officials met him at the plane, immediately put him on a helicopter en route to Montego Bay. The current ruler of Haiti has recalled Haiti's ambassador from Kingston.

The clergy is thrown into the battle over same-sex marriage. In New York, two Unitarian Universalist ministers are charged with marrying 13 same-sex couples. New York bars same-sex marriages. The charges may be the first brought against the clergy for performing such marriages.

President Bush feeling at home in Pennsylvania today. President in the state highlighting the record number of homeowners in America. He plans to visit a new homeowner this hour as well as tour a housing development outside Philadelphia.

Troops in transition as Spain's prime minister-elect plans to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero says Spain's participation in the U.S.-led war in Iraq has been a total error. Spain now has 1,300 troops in Iraq.

Al Qaeda is the focus of the probe into Spain's terror attacks in Madrid. One of five men arrested in connection with the attacks being linked to the alleged al Qaeda ringleader in Spain. Meanwhile, officials say they've not verified the authenticity of that videotape which al Qaeda allegedly claims responsibility for those attacks. At least three Americans were among those injured in that terrorist attack on four Spanish commuter trains last week. CNN's Allessio Vinci spoke with some American students who for one reason or another just missed a date with fate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At least 40 of the 200 victims that were killed during the attacks came from Alcala de Henares, the birthplace of writer Miguel Cervantes. The town lies 17 miles or 30 kilometers from Madrid.

It has a large student population often commuting to and from the capital. Tyson and Julie people arrived here two months ago from the U.S. to study history, business and Spanish for a semester.

NEAL: First thing I thought was that I was supposed to be on that train three hours later the same day. So it was a very -- it was -- it scared me, but it was just kind after relief that I wasn't there.

VINCI (on camera): Tyson, were you telling me how some of the students actually missed the train or were not on that train because of a strike.

NEAL: Yes. The public universities in the community of Madrid had planned to have a strike that afternoon in protest against the incoming government. And a lot of the students who commute between Alcala and Madrid were not on the trains.

VINCI: One of your friends actually missed the train.

JULIE CHALFONT, STUDENT: Yes. It was her 21st birthday. And she was supposed to be taking a flight to the Canary Islands. And to get to the airport you can take the train into Madrid. And she sent out the night before and overslept. So didn't make that.

VINCI (voice-over): Julie says getting on the computer trains to Madrid now makes hear little nervous.

Allessio Vinci, CNN, Alcala de Henares, Spain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The train attack in Spain has heightened fierce of terror and increased security concerns along Britain's Underground. Plain clothes police have stepped up patrols on the tube. And these signs of the time remind passengers to keep their eyes and ears open. An estimated three million people ride the London Underground every day.

As we've seen this hour, Spain's conservative party appears to be a surprise casualty of last week's terrorist bombing in Madrid. Some analysts say it could be the first case of terrorist using violence to influence the outcome of a major Western election. We have to ask CNN's senior political analyst Bill Schneider could that possibly here?

Bill, good to have you with us. Joining us from Boston today. Let's talk about it from the perspective of each camp. From the Bush camp, how to spin in a political sense what we've seen unfold in Spain this past week.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's clear that the Bush administration had a lot at stake in this Spanish election. They supported Aznar. He was a staunch ally, along with Britain's Tony Blair, of the United States. And he lost. And it was a setback for the Bush administration. And it could become an issue in the American presidential election.

Some Americans are saying, with justification, that the terrorists won in Spain because they set off a terrible tragedy, the bombing of those trains in Madrid. And they brought down a government. And one reading of this certainly is that the terrorists won.

O'BRIEN: From the Kerry perspective, to what extent does this buttress the senator's argument that perhaps the effort in Iraq was misplaced in the sense that it makes Americans, or for that matter the Western world in general, no safer than it was before?

SCHNEIDER: There are two ways of spinning this and different Democrats have different ways of putting it.

John Kerry, who voted in favor of authorizing the Iraq war, argues that the Bush administration did it wrong. They did it without building a coalition of support with European countries. Just a few countries that supported the United States.

And what they're arguing, what Kerry is arguing is that the United States pushed its allies away. And this is clear evidence that the United States and its allies are moving apart in the war on terrorism instead of pulling together in that war, that the United States has isolated itself in the world.

Perhaps you might call a more extreme reading was that given by Howard Dean who said -- who essentially agrees with Spain's voters who said the war in Iraq has not made the U.S. and the Western world safer but more vulnerable to terrorist attacks. And that's clearly how Spanish voters felt.

O'BRIEN: So how does the Bush camp counter act that argument?

SCHNEIDER: Well, their argument is that what it really proves is that we're all vulnerable to terrorist attack. And that the only way that the United States and the Europeans can stop terrorism is by going after them, going after them vigorously in Iraq or wherever they're trying to hide. And that only a vigorous offense can protect the United States and the West from terrorism.

O'BRIEN: Fast forward ahead to the fall for a moment. What if something terrible happens here in the United States on the eve of the election? How would voters react to that? SCHNEIDER: There is no question whenever a terrible crisis like this strikes in the United States Americans pull together and rally behind the president. The immediate short-term effect, if it came close enough to election day, would be to rally support for the president.

One difference between the American president and the prime minister of Spain or Britain is the American president is both the head of government and the head of state. Spain has a king. Britain has a queen. There is a head of state separate from the head of government.

So people can rally behind the country without necessarily supporting the government. In the United States, they are one and the same. So the immediate aftermath of a crisis in this country would be to rally support behind President Bush.

But I think it wouldn't last long. If it happened early enough, a crisis were to happen early enough in the United States, the effect of rallying behind the president wouldn't last long, and then Americans would rather quickly begin to question why wasn't United States prepared? Is the United States more vulnerable as a result of the war in Iraq? And the effect would wear off rather quickly here.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Bill Schneider, live with us from Boston today. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Ahead, keeping the faith in Pittsburgh after a historic 130-year- old church goes up in flames.

And, opera superstar, Luciano Pavarotti says time to go. His final performance at the Met.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, faithful fans know right around time we tend to give you a mars minute with the rovers on Mars. But today, we got a new planet to talk about. Well, maybe it's not a planet. Planetiod. Large object, largest thing found since Pluto in our solar system.

Whatever you want to call it, meet Sedna. This is an image which comes from the Spitzer Space Telescope in orbit looking at items in the infrared. And with that, let's start the one-minute clock. Notice how I fudged a little extra time there.

Take a look at the center of your screen. Beside the big yellow arrow, there is a little dot there. I'm just going to cover it over for a second. It's right there. Now I'll take it away because you want to see it.

Anyway, that's Sedna. Sedna is three times farther from Earth than Pluto. It has an orbit that's 10,500 years, 10,500 years to get around our sun. Temperature there, about minus 400 degrees Fahrenheit. And just not a place you'd want to raise the kids.

It is in an area called the Oort Cloud, O-O-R-T, which is kind of like solar system detretis (ph) from the Big Bang. And that's where a lot of cometary material is made.

Of course you have to come out of the Oort Cloud to be a comet. This is just a big object.

And we wonder what might happen to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine -- we don't have Pluto -- Pizzas. It could be "Pizza Slices," I guess, for Sedna.

But nevertheless, most scientists would tell you it's really not a planet. And there are probably a bunch of other big rocks just like it about 1,000 miles in diameter out there in the Oort Cloud.

Back here on earth, a glacier's last gasp. Check this out. And there it goes. One moment it's there. Kind of reminds me of watching those implosion pictures we see every now and again of a big building coming down. Except there was no charges involved there. It was just a natural occurrence.

This happened at the Perito Moreno Glacier in Argentina. Just collapsed. The wall of ice had formed 230 feet above the water. It was one of Argentina's most popular natural attractions of the 356- glaciers in this rugged, still-pristine region of the world, slightly diminished. Chalk it up to global warming, I guess.

An offer of help after a fatal weekend fire at one of Pittsburgh's oldest churches. Two local firefighters were killed fighting that blaze. A fire crew from Erie is offering to travel to Pittsburgh so their colleagues can attend the funerals this week.

Meanwhile, parishioners at Ebenezer Baptist Church are coping with the loss. CNN's Adaora Udoji reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To so many, like Anna Bowman (ph) and her son, Craig Clark (ph), the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church was far more than just a building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I've had so many memories here. I was baptized in 1936.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was married here, buried a grandmother, a great-grandmother here -- just a lot of history here.

UDOJI: A day after the church burnt down, they and several hundred members found themselves together at the generosity of a neighbor -- a nearby Seventh Day Adventist church, which opened its doors.

But weighing most heavily on their minds: the toll of the vicious fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were firefighters that risked their lives, and in the process two lost their lives.

UDOJI: Two of Pittsburgh's veteran firefighters, both in their early 50s, were crushed to death when the city's oldest black church crumbled. All told, at least 31 firefighters were injured, 9 very seriously.

Investigators are now looking at what started the fire. Some suspecting it was caused by an electrical problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't worship the church. We worship the Lord. So, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fall down. We'll just go into a field somewhere and have church there. It really don't matter.

UDOJI (on camera): At more than 130 years old, the church has survived many crises and thrived. And even though the bricks are coming down, members say this will be no exception.

(voice-over): But they will remember the two men who paid the ultimate price in trying to save their church -- a debt they know that can never be repaid.

Adaora Udoji, CNN, Pittsburgh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Haiti's former president is now on the ground in the Caribbean nation of Jamaica, little more than 100 miles away from Haiti. This has caused some concern in some quarters.

In the meantime, as a matter of fact, the current president of Haiti, Gerard Latortue, has recalled the Haitian ambassador from Kingston ending diplomatic relations. Meanwhile, Mr. Aristide is on his way to the prime minister's house in Jamaica.

Joining us on the line right now is radio host Amy Goodman who was on the airplane from the Central African Republic, I believe, to Jamaica with Mr. Aristide.

Amy, just describe the scene there as Mr. Aristide arrived.

AMY GOODMAN, RADIO HOST: Yes. We just completed the round trip, the delegation who went to retrieve the Aristides from the Central Republic of Africa, traveling two-thirds of the way around the world.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide and his wife, Mildred Aristide, descended the steps here at the Norman Manly Airport in Kingston, Jamaica. President Aristide made a statement thanking the prime minister of Jamaica, P.J. Patterson, for inviting him to be here in Jamaica.

On the flight from the Central Africa Republic, President Aristide reiterated to Democracy Now, the radio and TV program I host, that he was kidnapped, that he did not go willingly, that he said basically he was kidnapped in the force of a U.S.-backed coup.

He has said, as well as the delegation with him lead by U.S. congress member Maxine Waters. She says he is the Democratically- elected president of Haiti.

There was good deal of consternation and anger expressed on the flight by the delegation that included Waters as well as Randall Robinson, the Founder of TransAfrica when they heard that the U.S. administration was saying that Aristide should not return to the Western Hemisphere. Randall Robinson says he's the Democratically- elected leader of Haiti and he has just a right to be in this hemisphere as well as anyone who lives here.

Reporting from Kingston Airport...

O'BRIEN: Amy, before you get away, he's acting not like a deposed leader but as a head of state. Does he intend to return to Haiti? Has he made any statement in that regard?

GOODMAN: Well, I asked him that. He said that they are taking it a day at a time. First they are here in Jamaica. They will reunite with their family. The Aristides have two daughters 5 and 7. And then they will assess the situation.

To me, President Aristide said it really depends on the Haitian people. But they are going to weigh circumstances as they present themselves and in consultation with others, with supporters and the people who helped Jean-Bertrand Aristide return to the Caribbean.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of the level of that consultation. How much contact does he have with his supporters inside Haiti right now?

GOODMAN: I'm not privy to his private communications with the people of Haiti. But I can only report that in the last election, he won overwhelmingly the democratic vote.

And it's something that U.S. congress member Maxine Waters said to the delegation when she heard , for example, the U.S. ambassador to Haiti, James Foley, saying that the Aristides could not return to within 150 miles of Haiti, she said that if people are concerned about violence in Haiti, they should be concerned about the so-called rebel leaders, people like Gerdell Chenlend (ph), who was convicted of murder in absentia, murdering the justice minister of Haiti during the coup of '91 to '94.

O'BRIEN: Amy, one final thought here. Have you heard anything officially or unofficially from the government of Jamaica, Prime Minister P.J. Patterson, why Jamaica would offer asylum, if that is the case here, at least a visit, for Mr. Aristide at this time?

GOODMAN: Well, one of the people on the delegation was Sharon Hayes Webster. And she is a Jamaican parliamentarian. And she carried a letter from the Jamaican prime minister, P.J. Patterson, to the president of the Central African Republic asking them to release Aristides so that they come home to the Caribbean.

He has not been granted permanent asylum here in Jamaica. The Aristides, though, have been invited to stay here and then make their next decision.

It's important to note it's not just P.J. Patterson. It is also -- he in his position as head of the 15-member (UNINTELLIGIBLE) community, the Community of Caribbean Nations, that released that very critical statement soon after the coup in Haiti calling for an international, independent investigation into the circumstances under which Jean-Bertrand Aristide was ousted from Haiti.

They were also very critical of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... we are running out of time, unfortunately. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Amy Goodman is the host of Democracy Now. She's on the aircraft with Jean-Bertrand Aristide, his wife, Mildred, and their delegation as they arrived in Jamaica.

We'll be back with more, CNN's LIVE FROM... in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 15, 2004 - 14:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYSON NEAL, STUDENT: First thing I thought was that I was supposed to be on that train.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The aftermath of a terror blast. American students in Spain count their blessings. That's all new this half hour.

Also ahead, politics and terror. How President Bush and Senator Kerry will put their own spins on the global war on terror in their campaigns for the White House.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Those stories just ahead. First, some of the stories we're watching for you this hour.

Former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide landed Monday in Jamaica, back in the Caribbean. Jamaican officials met him at the plane, immediately put him on a helicopter en route to Montego Bay. The current ruler of Haiti has recalled Haiti's ambassador from Kingston.

The clergy is thrown into the battle over same-sex marriage. In New York, two Unitarian Universalist ministers are charged with marrying 13 same-sex couples. New York bars same-sex marriages. The charges may be the first brought against the clergy for performing such marriages.

President Bush feeling at home in Pennsylvania today. President in the state highlighting the record number of homeowners in America. He plans to visit a new homeowner this hour as well as tour a housing development outside Philadelphia.

Troops in transition as Spain's prime minister-elect plans to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero says Spain's participation in the U.S.-led war in Iraq has been a total error. Spain now has 1,300 troops in Iraq.

Al Qaeda is the focus of the probe into Spain's terror attacks in Madrid. One of five men arrested in connection with the attacks being linked to the alleged al Qaeda ringleader in Spain. Meanwhile, officials say they've not verified the authenticity of that videotape which al Qaeda allegedly claims responsibility for those attacks. At least three Americans were among those injured in that terrorist attack on four Spanish commuter trains last week. CNN's Allessio Vinci spoke with some American students who for one reason or another just missed a date with fate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At least 40 of the 200 victims that were killed during the attacks came from Alcala de Henares, the birthplace of writer Miguel Cervantes. The town lies 17 miles or 30 kilometers from Madrid.

It has a large student population often commuting to and from the capital. Tyson and Julie people arrived here two months ago from the U.S. to study history, business and Spanish for a semester.

NEAL: First thing I thought was that I was supposed to be on that train three hours later the same day. So it was a very -- it was -- it scared me, but it was just kind after relief that I wasn't there.

VINCI (on camera): Tyson, were you telling me how some of the students actually missed the train or were not on that train because of a strike.

NEAL: Yes. The public universities in the community of Madrid had planned to have a strike that afternoon in protest against the incoming government. And a lot of the students who commute between Alcala and Madrid were not on the trains.

VINCI: One of your friends actually missed the train.

JULIE CHALFONT, STUDENT: Yes. It was her 21st birthday. And she was supposed to be taking a flight to the Canary Islands. And to get to the airport you can take the train into Madrid. And she sent out the night before and overslept. So didn't make that.

VINCI (voice-over): Julie says getting on the computer trains to Madrid now makes hear little nervous.

Allessio Vinci, CNN, Alcala de Henares, Spain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The train attack in Spain has heightened fierce of terror and increased security concerns along Britain's Underground. Plain clothes police have stepped up patrols on the tube. And these signs of the time remind passengers to keep their eyes and ears open. An estimated three million people ride the London Underground every day.

As we've seen this hour, Spain's conservative party appears to be a surprise casualty of last week's terrorist bombing in Madrid. Some analysts say it could be the first case of terrorist using violence to influence the outcome of a major Western election. We have to ask CNN's senior political analyst Bill Schneider could that possibly here?

Bill, good to have you with us. Joining us from Boston today. Let's talk about it from the perspective of each camp. From the Bush camp, how to spin in a political sense what we've seen unfold in Spain this past week.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's clear that the Bush administration had a lot at stake in this Spanish election. They supported Aznar. He was a staunch ally, along with Britain's Tony Blair, of the United States. And he lost. And it was a setback for the Bush administration. And it could become an issue in the American presidential election.

Some Americans are saying, with justification, that the terrorists won in Spain because they set off a terrible tragedy, the bombing of those trains in Madrid. And they brought down a government. And one reading of this certainly is that the terrorists won.

O'BRIEN: From the Kerry perspective, to what extent does this buttress the senator's argument that perhaps the effort in Iraq was misplaced in the sense that it makes Americans, or for that matter the Western world in general, no safer than it was before?

SCHNEIDER: There are two ways of spinning this and different Democrats have different ways of putting it.

John Kerry, who voted in favor of authorizing the Iraq war, argues that the Bush administration did it wrong. They did it without building a coalition of support with European countries. Just a few countries that supported the United States.

And what they're arguing, what Kerry is arguing is that the United States pushed its allies away. And this is clear evidence that the United States and its allies are moving apart in the war on terrorism instead of pulling together in that war, that the United States has isolated itself in the world.

Perhaps you might call a more extreme reading was that given by Howard Dean who said -- who essentially agrees with Spain's voters who said the war in Iraq has not made the U.S. and the Western world safer but more vulnerable to terrorist attacks. And that's clearly how Spanish voters felt.

O'BRIEN: So how does the Bush camp counter act that argument?

SCHNEIDER: Well, their argument is that what it really proves is that we're all vulnerable to terrorist attack. And that the only way that the United States and the Europeans can stop terrorism is by going after them, going after them vigorously in Iraq or wherever they're trying to hide. And that only a vigorous offense can protect the United States and the West from terrorism.

O'BRIEN: Fast forward ahead to the fall for a moment. What if something terrible happens here in the United States on the eve of the election? How would voters react to that? SCHNEIDER: There is no question whenever a terrible crisis like this strikes in the United States Americans pull together and rally behind the president. The immediate short-term effect, if it came close enough to election day, would be to rally support for the president.

One difference between the American president and the prime minister of Spain or Britain is the American president is both the head of government and the head of state. Spain has a king. Britain has a queen. There is a head of state separate from the head of government.

So people can rally behind the country without necessarily supporting the government. In the United States, they are one and the same. So the immediate aftermath of a crisis in this country would be to rally support behind President Bush.

But I think it wouldn't last long. If it happened early enough, a crisis were to happen early enough in the United States, the effect of rallying behind the president wouldn't last long, and then Americans would rather quickly begin to question why wasn't United States prepared? Is the United States more vulnerable as a result of the war in Iraq? And the effect would wear off rather quickly here.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Bill Schneider, live with us from Boston today. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Ahead, keeping the faith in Pittsburgh after a historic 130-year- old church goes up in flames.

And, opera superstar, Luciano Pavarotti says time to go. His final performance at the Met.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, faithful fans know right around time we tend to give you a mars minute with the rovers on Mars. But today, we got a new planet to talk about. Well, maybe it's not a planet. Planetiod. Large object, largest thing found since Pluto in our solar system.

Whatever you want to call it, meet Sedna. This is an image which comes from the Spitzer Space Telescope in orbit looking at items in the infrared. And with that, let's start the one-minute clock. Notice how I fudged a little extra time there.

Take a look at the center of your screen. Beside the big yellow arrow, there is a little dot there. I'm just going to cover it over for a second. It's right there. Now I'll take it away because you want to see it.

Anyway, that's Sedna. Sedna is three times farther from Earth than Pluto. It has an orbit that's 10,500 years, 10,500 years to get around our sun. Temperature there, about minus 400 degrees Fahrenheit. And just not a place you'd want to raise the kids.

It is in an area called the Oort Cloud, O-O-R-T, which is kind of like solar system detretis (ph) from the Big Bang. And that's where a lot of cometary material is made.

Of course you have to come out of the Oort Cloud to be a comet. This is just a big object.

And we wonder what might happen to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine -- we don't have Pluto -- Pizzas. It could be "Pizza Slices," I guess, for Sedna.

But nevertheless, most scientists would tell you it's really not a planet. And there are probably a bunch of other big rocks just like it about 1,000 miles in diameter out there in the Oort Cloud.

Back here on earth, a glacier's last gasp. Check this out. And there it goes. One moment it's there. Kind of reminds me of watching those implosion pictures we see every now and again of a big building coming down. Except there was no charges involved there. It was just a natural occurrence.

This happened at the Perito Moreno Glacier in Argentina. Just collapsed. The wall of ice had formed 230 feet above the water. It was one of Argentina's most popular natural attractions of the 356- glaciers in this rugged, still-pristine region of the world, slightly diminished. Chalk it up to global warming, I guess.

An offer of help after a fatal weekend fire at one of Pittsburgh's oldest churches. Two local firefighters were killed fighting that blaze. A fire crew from Erie is offering to travel to Pittsburgh so their colleagues can attend the funerals this week.

Meanwhile, parishioners at Ebenezer Baptist Church are coping with the loss. CNN's Adaora Udoji reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To so many, like Anna Bowman (ph) and her son, Craig Clark (ph), the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church was far more than just a building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I've had so many memories here. I was baptized in 1936.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was married here, buried a grandmother, a great-grandmother here -- just a lot of history here.

UDOJI: A day after the church burnt down, they and several hundred members found themselves together at the generosity of a neighbor -- a nearby Seventh Day Adventist church, which opened its doors.

But weighing most heavily on their minds: the toll of the vicious fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were firefighters that risked their lives, and in the process two lost their lives.

UDOJI: Two of Pittsburgh's veteran firefighters, both in their early 50s, were crushed to death when the city's oldest black church crumbled. All told, at least 31 firefighters were injured, 9 very seriously.

Investigators are now looking at what started the fire. Some suspecting it was caused by an electrical problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't worship the church. We worship the Lord. So, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fall down. We'll just go into a field somewhere and have church there. It really don't matter.

UDOJI (on camera): At more than 130 years old, the church has survived many crises and thrived. And even though the bricks are coming down, members say this will be no exception.

(voice-over): But they will remember the two men who paid the ultimate price in trying to save their church -- a debt they know that can never be repaid.

Adaora Udoji, CNN, Pittsburgh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Haiti's former president is now on the ground in the Caribbean nation of Jamaica, little more than 100 miles away from Haiti. This has caused some concern in some quarters.

In the meantime, as a matter of fact, the current president of Haiti, Gerard Latortue, has recalled the Haitian ambassador from Kingston ending diplomatic relations. Meanwhile, Mr. Aristide is on his way to the prime minister's house in Jamaica.

Joining us on the line right now is radio host Amy Goodman who was on the airplane from the Central African Republic, I believe, to Jamaica with Mr. Aristide.

Amy, just describe the scene there as Mr. Aristide arrived.

AMY GOODMAN, RADIO HOST: Yes. We just completed the round trip, the delegation who went to retrieve the Aristides from the Central Republic of Africa, traveling two-thirds of the way around the world.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide and his wife, Mildred Aristide, descended the steps here at the Norman Manly Airport in Kingston, Jamaica. President Aristide made a statement thanking the prime minister of Jamaica, P.J. Patterson, for inviting him to be here in Jamaica.

On the flight from the Central Africa Republic, President Aristide reiterated to Democracy Now, the radio and TV program I host, that he was kidnapped, that he did not go willingly, that he said basically he was kidnapped in the force of a U.S.-backed coup.

He has said, as well as the delegation with him lead by U.S. congress member Maxine Waters. She says he is the Democratically- elected president of Haiti.

There was good deal of consternation and anger expressed on the flight by the delegation that included Waters as well as Randall Robinson, the Founder of TransAfrica when they heard that the U.S. administration was saying that Aristide should not return to the Western Hemisphere. Randall Robinson says he's the Democratically- elected leader of Haiti and he has just a right to be in this hemisphere as well as anyone who lives here.

Reporting from Kingston Airport...

O'BRIEN: Amy, before you get away, he's acting not like a deposed leader but as a head of state. Does he intend to return to Haiti? Has he made any statement in that regard?

GOODMAN: Well, I asked him that. He said that they are taking it a day at a time. First they are here in Jamaica. They will reunite with their family. The Aristides have two daughters 5 and 7. And then they will assess the situation.

To me, President Aristide said it really depends on the Haitian people. But they are going to weigh circumstances as they present themselves and in consultation with others, with supporters and the people who helped Jean-Bertrand Aristide return to the Caribbean.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of the level of that consultation. How much contact does he have with his supporters inside Haiti right now?

GOODMAN: I'm not privy to his private communications with the people of Haiti. But I can only report that in the last election, he won overwhelmingly the democratic vote.

And it's something that U.S. congress member Maxine Waters said to the delegation when she heard , for example, the U.S. ambassador to Haiti, James Foley, saying that the Aristides could not return to within 150 miles of Haiti, she said that if people are concerned about violence in Haiti, they should be concerned about the so-called rebel leaders, people like Gerdell Chenlend (ph), who was convicted of murder in absentia, murdering the justice minister of Haiti during the coup of '91 to '94.

O'BRIEN: Amy, one final thought here. Have you heard anything officially or unofficially from the government of Jamaica, Prime Minister P.J. Patterson, why Jamaica would offer asylum, if that is the case here, at least a visit, for Mr. Aristide at this time?

GOODMAN: Well, one of the people on the delegation was Sharon Hayes Webster. And she is a Jamaican parliamentarian. And she carried a letter from the Jamaican prime minister, P.J. Patterson, to the president of the Central African Republic asking them to release Aristides so that they come home to the Caribbean.

He has not been granted permanent asylum here in Jamaica. The Aristides, though, have been invited to stay here and then make their next decision.

It's important to note it's not just P.J. Patterson. It is also -- he in his position as head of the 15-member (UNINTELLIGIBLE) community, the Community of Caribbean Nations, that released that very critical statement soon after the coup in Haiti calling for an international, independent investigation into the circumstances under which Jean-Bertrand Aristide was ousted from Haiti.

They were also very critical of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... we are running out of time, unfortunately. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Amy Goodman is the host of Democracy Now. She's on the aircraft with Jean-Bertrand Aristide, his wife, Mildred, and their delegation as they arrived in Jamaica.

We'll be back with more, CNN's LIVE FROM... in just a moment. Stay with us.

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