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Spanish Election Reflects Unhappiness Over Iraq War; Investigators Struggling to Identify Victims in Fresno Mass Murder; What Have We Learned from Iraq?; Three American Civilians Killed in Iraq

Aired March 15, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off today. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour, one nation's milestone, another's millstone, perhaps?

Friday marks the first anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And we'll hear a lot about the year just passed in the days ahead.

But one many has heard enough. He's the new prime minister of Spain, and he vows to bring Spain's 1,500 troops home from Iraq when Iraqis regain sovereignty in June.

Spaniards opposed the war by overwhelming margins from the outset.

Yesterday's surprise and resounding election of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, a socialist, marks the first time a pro-Iraq war government has been voted out of office.

Ballots were cast in the shadow of last week's horrifying bomb attacks in Madrid. And as we hear now from CNN's Brent Sadler, the attacks and the war and Zapatero's ascension may all be connected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even as Spanish voters went to the polls, suspicion mounted that al Qaeda carried out last week's rail blasts.

Investigators say one of three arrested Moroccan men was already being watched in connection with last May's bomb attacks in Casablanca, and that he had links to the indicted chief of al Qaeda cell in Spain who's now in jail, implicated with the September 11 attacks on America.

Further evidence here suggesting Spain may have been made to pay in blood for supporting the war in Iraq came in a videotaped message. It was found in this garbage bin, close to a Madrid mosque, after an anonymous call telling authorities to go there.

The message was purported to have been sent by al Qaeda's European cell. It said, "We claim responsibility for what happened in Madrid, just two and a half years after the attacks in New York and Washington. This is an answer to your cooperation with the Bush criminal and their allies."

An unsubstantiated claim, insist Spanish officials, that may or may not prove to be true.

ANA PALACIO, SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: I mean, all the possibilities are open. And they are trying to analyze to what extent this is -- this video was that was found is something that must be taken into account or not.

SADLER: But the shadow of al Qaeda loomed large on the Spanish election, reigniting widespread discontent that the government ignored the will of the people by supporting last year's U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

National grief for victims turned to anger as anti-government protestors marched on the ruling Popular Party's headquarters. They accused officials of rushing to blame ETA, the militant Basque separatist group, and downplaying a possible al Qaeda role, to protect themselves from electoral defeat.

But voters seemed to go for the jugular, punishing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's ruling conservatives with a heavy dose of political payback, leading to a stunning change of government.

(on camera) The specter of al Qaeda striking at the heart of Europe may have far reaching consequences, not only on the political level, as seems to be the case here, but also for security on a continent that could have been targeted by international Islamic terrorists with a shocking display of global reach.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Madrid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Meanwhile, more violence to tell you about inside Iraq. This just in to CNN, as a matter of fact. Three American civilian workers in Mosul were killed, two wounded Monday in a drive-by shooting in Mosul.

We have no further details just yet. But three American civilian workers in Iraq killed, two wounded, in a drive-by shooting. We'll get you some more details, bring them to you, of course, as soon as we get them.

The developments in Spain may be worrisome for the White House. If Spanish troops are pulled out of Iraq, what message might that send to other European leaders? Could it signal the international coalition is perhaps on shaky ground?

CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the president today. She's in Ardmore, Pennsylvania, joins us now.

Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Well, clearly this is a symbolic blow to the Bush administration. President Bush this morning calling the out-going prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar, to thank him for his support over the years.

And also he made another call, of course, to the -- his successor, the new leader, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. We are told in that conversation that he congratulated him, that he hopes that he'll be able to work together, the two leaders, and that they'll be able to work together on the war on terror.

We're told by Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman, that the two leaders did not talk about the threat from Zapatero that he may pull Spanish troops from Iraq, that we are told that that did not come up in the conversation.

But administration officials who I spoke with say essentially that they are not concerned about that. They believe they'll have a U.N. Security Council resolution that will give the international cover that Spain looking for.

What they are concerned about is really what they call "the talk," the anti-Bush sentiment coming out of that country. They believe a lot of this is talk.

And they are looking into ways to try to essentially bridge the gap there, whether or not it's a visit by the president himself to Spain, whether or not it's lower level officials, but something that would allow them to say, look, this rift between the U.S. and Europe is just not necessary. We want to work together with the Spanish people.

Of course, the big challenge, Kyra, is whether or not they can deter other countries from pulling back from the coalition.

Again, administration sources say that they believe the French and the Germans understand very well the threat of terror, that if anything, this might bring people together. That is certainly the hope -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Certainly a ticklish situation for the Bush White House right now, got to be handled just right. Can they spin anything positive out of this change of power in Spain?

MALVEAUX: Well, one thing that they're looking at is the European Union. There already are high-level talks that are happening about security measures, new counter-terrorism measures, to allow those countries to share intelligence.

This is something that they say perhaps the world will take a look at this. And they look and say, you'll need even stricter counter terrorism measures if you're going to protect your own people, that this is a global problem.

But again, they are not committing, not saying that this is al Qaeda just quite yet. O'BRIEN: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in Ardmore, Pennsylvania, thank you very much.

Anti-war demonstrators argue a year in Iraq is enough. More than 60 demonstrators making their way through Washington for a second day of protests. Among the marchers, peace activists and some relatives of U.S. troops.

They're marching from Walter Reed Army Medical Center to the White House. Protesters are calling for an end of U.S. military efforts in Iraq.

A year later in Iraq, what have military officials learned? CNN military analyst retired Major General Don Shepperd will give us his insights. That's coming up a little later in this hour. Stay tuned for that.

News across America for you begins in Washington, where Democratic hopeful John Kerry is embracing firefighters and slamming the president.

Kerry says the White House is wasting tax money on slick packaging to showcase its overhaul of Medicare. Rather than a good video, Kerry says the American people deserve the facts.

A deadly fall in Pigeon Forge. Tennessee authorities are investigating the death of a woman who fell from an amusement park ride yesterday. June Carol Alexander was on The Hawk ride when it flipped over, like it's supposed to, and she fell 60 feet.

And in Utah, a woman accused of murdering her unborn child is pleading not guilty. Prosecutors say Melissa Rowland ignored recommendations to get a C-section to save one of her twins.

And according to the news there, police are also investigating whether Rowland plotted to sell the surviving newborn for bail money.

Well, his son says he was the best dad you could ever have. Now he's charged with mass murder in California. And police believe at least two of the victims were children the man fathered with his own daughters.

The coroner may release the victims' names today.

Our Rusty Dornin is in Fresno, California, where this crime has shocked everyone, as well as the nation.

Hello, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, they're still having trouble figuring out exactly who the victims are in this case. That's a huge problem, by answering the questions of who and of course why, a very tangled web of polygamy and incest.

We do know that Marcus Wesson has been charged with nine counts of murder. Six autopsies have been conducted. Gunshots were all involved in those wounds. The police chief, Jerry Dyer, does say all the wounds were consistent, but they were also unique. The coroner had the same description.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORALEE CERVANTES, FRESNO COUNTY CORONER: I can just say that there are some variations in a pattern, and obviously a pattern exists because there are multiple victims. But I cannot elaborate any further at this time on the exact wounds and all of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Police are also conducting some gunshot residue tests on one victim. Now that could determine whether, indeed, one of the victims possibly committed suicide or was involved in shooting any of the other victims.

But right now they said they're just trying to sort out who these people are. Apparently, one woman did call in to the coroner's office but hung up before they could find out who she was.

Of course, they have spoken to the son of Marcus Wesson, the two sons that have come forward. But they're still having a lot of trouble in that area.

This afternoon we will be having another press conference in a couple of hours. Meantime, Marcus Wesson will not likely be arraigned tomorrow. It's looking more like Wednesday -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Rusty, what do neighbors say about the Wesson household in general and Mr. Wesson in particular?

DORNIN: A lot of bizarre behavior, that he was a recluse. Most of the neighbors didn't even know there were any children in that house, that some of them were shocked to find that out. They never saw them playing in the street. They never heard them.

They only saw the women dressed outside in veils and black clothing, sometimes wearing high heels, always walking in a group and that sort of thing.

Some of the neighbors described him as rather intimidating, yet he never provoked anyone or seemed to get in any arguments with anyone in the area.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rusty Dornin in Fresno, thank you very much.

We're going to get up close and personal with the most distant object in our solar system. Some might call it the tenth planet. We're not so sure about that. But we'll get lost in space, nevertheless. Look, they found a giant yellow arrow in space.

And remember these images from the war Iraq? The 7th Cavalry moving across the desert. One year later, what are the lessons of the U.S. military from this campaign? We'll talk about it in just a couple of minutes. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: News around the world for you now on this, the ides of March.

A U.N. inspection team heads back to Iran next week to probe that country's nuclear program. Iran lifted its inspection freeze after the International Atomic Energy Agency condemned Iran's lack of cooperation.

Pakistani police thwarted an attempt to bomb the U.S. consulate in Karachi. Police defused a large bomb left in a stolen minivan outside of the compound. Tip of the hat to them.

And former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide returns to the Caribbean. He is expected in Jamaica this afternoon, despite U.S. objections. Aristide fled to the Central African Republic after he was driven out of Haiti by an armed revolt.

As we've been telling you, this week marks the first anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.

And as promised, we're going to explore some of the lessons learned since the first tanks began to roll toward Baghdad last March.

With me from New York is CNN military analyst, retired Major General Don Shepperd.

General Shepperd, good to see you again, sir.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good to be back with you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about the whole issue of the tanks rolling up the desert there, illustrative of the speed with which this whole endeavor began.

And truth is, in this case, speed kills. And speed really is a force multiplier. That's kind of a fancy term for saying you can have fewer forces if you move fast. Right?

SHEPPERD: It really is, Miles. And one other thing that really helps with the speed is having the intelligence picture of what's happening in front of you.

We have constellations of sensors from all services up there that enables the Army commanders on the ground and in the headquarters to know exactly what's in front of them and how fast they can move. It keeps the enemy off balance.

U.S. forces have the picture. The enemy forces are blind, and we can do a lot with a smaller number of troops in this way.

O'BRIEN: The first big engagement on the road to Baghdad was Nasiriyah. And I'm curious if there are any specific lessons which come out of Nasiriyah or in general when you look at that ground battle where there was really some heavy engagement with -- between the Iraqis and the U.S.

SHEPPERD: Yes. A couple of really smart things that happened having to do with Nasiriyah. Not so much Nasiriyah itself.

But I think everything was wrong in what they supposed prior to the war. We thought the war in the south would be very easy and it would get very tough once we got to Baghdad.

Because of the Fedayeen Saddam, exactly the opposite was true. It was very tough in the south. And the whole tactic employed by the Fedayeen was to slow down U.S. forces.

What the U.S. forces did was simply bypass areas such as Nasiriyah, continue on the march toward Baghdad to rapidly defeat the Iraqi forces and then send forces in behind them -- in the case of Nasiriyah, it was the 82nd Airborne -- to clean up the pockets of Nasiriyah. So they just ignored them and bypassed them.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk a little bit about something we didn't hear as much about during the first Gulf War, which was incidents of friendly fire.

There were a couple notable exceptions. I recall that British Tornado jet that was struck by a Patriot missile. And I believe an F- 14 or F-18 was struck as well. But nevertheless, it appears as if the U.S. military has improved on its ability to sort out the good guys, the blue team from the red team, as they call them.

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed, they -- we have improved. Is never perfect. They have some things such as blue force tracker and other electronic media. But sometimes these things break.

And it always becomes a factor of the guy with the gun has to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. And when he pulls the trigger, bad things are going to happen on the other end.

The total number of friendly fire casualties went down, as did the total number of casualties in this war. But the percentage actually went up. In other words, the percentage of friendly fire casualties compared to overall casualties went up, because the overall casualties went down.

So we're still not perfect in this area. We're continually doing things to try to reduce them in future warfare.

O'BRIEN: Now, during the first Gulf War, the whole concept of using space as a platform just completely integrated in the U.S. campaign was a new idea. This time around, it was used in so many ways. It's kind of hard to overstate what a useful role that played. SHEPPERD: You simply cannot overstate the importance of space to U.S. and coalition forces. We use it for everything. It's kind of the unseen. We've been work being at it for years, even decades.

We depend on upon it for communications, for intelligence, for weather, everything that we do, of course for targeting. Everything that we do depends upon space assets.

It also makes us vulnerable, and it causes another problem. We are so far outdistancing our potential allies and coalitions, that it makes it difficult for them to keep us with us.

So it's a blessing and a curse, but it's absolutely essential, Miles, in everything we do.

O'BRIEN: It sort of raises a question, though, about what's next for the military as it continues development of things like the F-22 fighter or the joint strike fighter, which have tremendous capacity so far above and beyond anything else out there even in the own U.S. inventory, which is so far above and beyond anything else.

Is it really worth the money to continue pursuing these sorts of programs?

SHEPPERD: Well, in the words of a military guy like me, the answer is absolutely yes. In the words of Congress, they always have questions.

And their question is, look, these things are very expensive. We're so much better than everybody else now. Why do we need to spend money on things such as the F-22, the F-35, that type of thing?

My answer is, we don't want to be near peer with everybody. We want to be decades, even centuries ahead of everybody else. That's what we owe our soldiers and men in uniform.

So my judgment is we should keep pursuing these things. The numbers, we'll have to figure out what we can afford, but we should not stop the development of these super systems like those you mentioned and others, Miles.

O'BRIEN: And some final thoughts about the situation on the ground in Iraq. Situation there is still not very good for U.S. troops who are engaged on a day-to-day basis. Doesn't look like it's going to improve any time soon. Do you expect there will be some sudden turn around, or are we deluding ourselves if we think that?

SHEPPERD: I think anybody that thinks there would be some type of sudden improvement is deluding themselves.

War, pulling the triggers, defeating the enemy is the easier part of war. Running a country and changing the country and the culture, which is what we're into, is very difficult.

We're now trying to spread security. We're trying to, as of the 30th of June, establish a relationship with a new government yet to be defined. And we are, you know, basically trying to change the culture of the Middle East and starting in Iraq.

And it is really difficult. There is not going to be any changes. We'll be around for a long time if they let us, Miles.

O'BRIEN: And when you say long time, I asked General Grange this. You care to put a number on it? How long will U.S. troops be on the ground there?

SHEPPERD: I don't know. But we have to make arrangements with the new government as of the 30th of June how long they will let us stay. Certainly, it will be a couple of years, and it probably will be many years if we do it right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Major General Don Shepperd, our military analyst, good to see you on this anniversary week. And we wish you safe travels. Thank you very much for being with us.

The war on terror and the race for the White House. What sort of political hay will both sides make of the loss of Spain as an ally in Iraq? We'll talk about that.

And on thin ice. Some amazing pictures of the power of nature. We'll tell what you this is all about just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There are reports of more violence in the northern part of Iraq. CNN's Walt Rodgers joining us live now from Baghdad with details -- Walt.

WALT RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Tragedy again strikes Americans working in Iraq, this time civilians.

Just under five hours ago, it was still daylight east of Mosul. A car carrying five non-government organization officials, NGOs, riding as I say, east of Mosul. Then suddenly a drive-by shooting. Someone, some Iraqis opened fire on them.

Three of the American NGOs were killed, two were taken to hospital. We do not yet know which non-government organization these individuals were with, but again, three Americans killed there.

Again, attesting to just what a dangerous place Iraq is. We don't even know whether they were wearing body armor at the time that the drive-by shooting occurred.

We do know that all civilians associated with the provisional government here are under strict instructions that, whenever they go out, they have to wear helmets and, of course, bulletproof vests as they ride in cars. And usually they get a military escort.

NGOs were not likely to have had a military escort at the time. They would have been very vulnerable, as is any civilian, any westerner at this point, who takes to the roads in Iraq. As I say, three Americans killed, two others wounded, NGOs shot at in a drive-by shooting just east of Mosul -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Walt Rodgers in Baghdad. Thank you very much.

(STOCK REPORT)

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Investigators Struggling to Identify Victims in Fresno Mass Murder; What Have We Learned from Iraq?; Three American Civilians Killed in Iraq>


Aired March 15, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off today. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour, one nation's milestone, another's millstone, perhaps?

Friday marks the first anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And we'll hear a lot about the year just passed in the days ahead.

But one many has heard enough. He's the new prime minister of Spain, and he vows to bring Spain's 1,500 troops home from Iraq when Iraqis regain sovereignty in June.

Spaniards opposed the war by overwhelming margins from the outset.

Yesterday's surprise and resounding election of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, a socialist, marks the first time a pro-Iraq war government has been voted out of office.

Ballots were cast in the shadow of last week's horrifying bomb attacks in Madrid. And as we hear now from CNN's Brent Sadler, the attacks and the war and Zapatero's ascension may all be connected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even as Spanish voters went to the polls, suspicion mounted that al Qaeda carried out last week's rail blasts.

Investigators say one of three arrested Moroccan men was already being watched in connection with last May's bomb attacks in Casablanca, and that he had links to the indicted chief of al Qaeda cell in Spain who's now in jail, implicated with the September 11 attacks on America.

Further evidence here suggesting Spain may have been made to pay in blood for supporting the war in Iraq came in a videotaped message. It was found in this garbage bin, close to a Madrid mosque, after an anonymous call telling authorities to go there.

The message was purported to have been sent by al Qaeda's European cell. It said, "We claim responsibility for what happened in Madrid, just two and a half years after the attacks in New York and Washington. This is an answer to your cooperation with the Bush criminal and their allies."

An unsubstantiated claim, insist Spanish officials, that may or may not prove to be true.

ANA PALACIO, SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: I mean, all the possibilities are open. And they are trying to analyze to what extent this is -- this video was that was found is something that must be taken into account or not.

SADLER: But the shadow of al Qaeda loomed large on the Spanish election, reigniting widespread discontent that the government ignored the will of the people by supporting last year's U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

National grief for victims turned to anger as anti-government protestors marched on the ruling Popular Party's headquarters. They accused officials of rushing to blame ETA, the militant Basque separatist group, and downplaying a possible al Qaeda role, to protect themselves from electoral defeat.

But voters seemed to go for the jugular, punishing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's ruling conservatives with a heavy dose of political payback, leading to a stunning change of government.

(on camera) The specter of al Qaeda striking at the heart of Europe may have far reaching consequences, not only on the political level, as seems to be the case here, but also for security on a continent that could have been targeted by international Islamic terrorists with a shocking display of global reach.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Madrid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Meanwhile, more violence to tell you about inside Iraq. This just in to CNN, as a matter of fact. Three American civilian workers in Mosul were killed, two wounded Monday in a drive-by shooting in Mosul.

We have no further details just yet. But three American civilian workers in Iraq killed, two wounded, in a drive-by shooting. We'll get you some more details, bring them to you, of course, as soon as we get them.

The developments in Spain may be worrisome for the White House. If Spanish troops are pulled out of Iraq, what message might that send to other European leaders? Could it signal the international coalition is perhaps on shaky ground?

CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the president today. She's in Ardmore, Pennsylvania, joins us now.

Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Well, clearly this is a symbolic blow to the Bush administration. President Bush this morning calling the out-going prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar, to thank him for his support over the years.

And also he made another call, of course, to the -- his successor, the new leader, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. We are told in that conversation that he congratulated him, that he hopes that he'll be able to work together, the two leaders, and that they'll be able to work together on the war on terror.

We're told by Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman, that the two leaders did not talk about the threat from Zapatero that he may pull Spanish troops from Iraq, that we are told that that did not come up in the conversation.

But administration officials who I spoke with say essentially that they are not concerned about that. They believe they'll have a U.N. Security Council resolution that will give the international cover that Spain looking for.

What they are concerned about is really what they call "the talk," the anti-Bush sentiment coming out of that country. They believe a lot of this is talk.

And they are looking into ways to try to essentially bridge the gap there, whether or not it's a visit by the president himself to Spain, whether or not it's lower level officials, but something that would allow them to say, look, this rift between the U.S. and Europe is just not necessary. We want to work together with the Spanish people.

Of course, the big challenge, Kyra, is whether or not they can deter other countries from pulling back from the coalition.

Again, administration sources say that they believe the French and the Germans understand very well the threat of terror, that if anything, this might bring people together. That is certainly the hope -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Certainly a ticklish situation for the Bush White House right now, got to be handled just right. Can they spin anything positive out of this change of power in Spain?

MALVEAUX: Well, one thing that they're looking at is the European Union. There already are high-level talks that are happening about security measures, new counter-terrorism measures, to allow those countries to share intelligence.

This is something that they say perhaps the world will take a look at this. And they look and say, you'll need even stricter counter terrorism measures if you're going to protect your own people, that this is a global problem.

But again, they are not committing, not saying that this is al Qaeda just quite yet. O'BRIEN: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in Ardmore, Pennsylvania, thank you very much.

Anti-war demonstrators argue a year in Iraq is enough. More than 60 demonstrators making their way through Washington for a second day of protests. Among the marchers, peace activists and some relatives of U.S. troops.

They're marching from Walter Reed Army Medical Center to the White House. Protesters are calling for an end of U.S. military efforts in Iraq.

A year later in Iraq, what have military officials learned? CNN military analyst retired Major General Don Shepperd will give us his insights. That's coming up a little later in this hour. Stay tuned for that.

News across America for you begins in Washington, where Democratic hopeful John Kerry is embracing firefighters and slamming the president.

Kerry says the White House is wasting tax money on slick packaging to showcase its overhaul of Medicare. Rather than a good video, Kerry says the American people deserve the facts.

A deadly fall in Pigeon Forge. Tennessee authorities are investigating the death of a woman who fell from an amusement park ride yesterday. June Carol Alexander was on The Hawk ride when it flipped over, like it's supposed to, and she fell 60 feet.

And in Utah, a woman accused of murdering her unborn child is pleading not guilty. Prosecutors say Melissa Rowland ignored recommendations to get a C-section to save one of her twins.

And according to the news there, police are also investigating whether Rowland plotted to sell the surviving newborn for bail money.

Well, his son says he was the best dad you could ever have. Now he's charged with mass murder in California. And police believe at least two of the victims were children the man fathered with his own daughters.

The coroner may release the victims' names today.

Our Rusty Dornin is in Fresno, California, where this crime has shocked everyone, as well as the nation.

Hello, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, they're still having trouble figuring out exactly who the victims are in this case. That's a huge problem, by answering the questions of who and of course why, a very tangled web of polygamy and incest.

We do know that Marcus Wesson has been charged with nine counts of murder. Six autopsies have been conducted. Gunshots were all involved in those wounds. The police chief, Jerry Dyer, does say all the wounds were consistent, but they were also unique. The coroner had the same description.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORALEE CERVANTES, FRESNO COUNTY CORONER: I can just say that there are some variations in a pattern, and obviously a pattern exists because there are multiple victims. But I cannot elaborate any further at this time on the exact wounds and all of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Police are also conducting some gunshot residue tests on one victim. Now that could determine whether, indeed, one of the victims possibly committed suicide or was involved in shooting any of the other victims.

But right now they said they're just trying to sort out who these people are. Apparently, one woman did call in to the coroner's office but hung up before they could find out who she was.

Of course, they have spoken to the son of Marcus Wesson, the two sons that have come forward. But they're still having a lot of trouble in that area.

This afternoon we will be having another press conference in a couple of hours. Meantime, Marcus Wesson will not likely be arraigned tomorrow. It's looking more like Wednesday -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Rusty, what do neighbors say about the Wesson household in general and Mr. Wesson in particular?

DORNIN: A lot of bizarre behavior, that he was a recluse. Most of the neighbors didn't even know there were any children in that house, that some of them were shocked to find that out. They never saw them playing in the street. They never heard them.

They only saw the women dressed outside in veils and black clothing, sometimes wearing high heels, always walking in a group and that sort of thing.

Some of the neighbors described him as rather intimidating, yet he never provoked anyone or seemed to get in any arguments with anyone in the area.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rusty Dornin in Fresno, thank you very much.

We're going to get up close and personal with the most distant object in our solar system. Some might call it the tenth planet. We're not so sure about that. But we'll get lost in space, nevertheless. Look, they found a giant yellow arrow in space.

And remember these images from the war Iraq? The 7th Cavalry moving across the desert. One year later, what are the lessons of the U.S. military from this campaign? We'll talk about it in just a couple of minutes. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: News around the world for you now on this, the ides of March.

A U.N. inspection team heads back to Iran next week to probe that country's nuclear program. Iran lifted its inspection freeze after the International Atomic Energy Agency condemned Iran's lack of cooperation.

Pakistani police thwarted an attempt to bomb the U.S. consulate in Karachi. Police defused a large bomb left in a stolen minivan outside of the compound. Tip of the hat to them.

And former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide returns to the Caribbean. He is expected in Jamaica this afternoon, despite U.S. objections. Aristide fled to the Central African Republic after he was driven out of Haiti by an armed revolt.

As we've been telling you, this week marks the first anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.

And as promised, we're going to explore some of the lessons learned since the first tanks began to roll toward Baghdad last March.

With me from New York is CNN military analyst, retired Major General Don Shepperd.

General Shepperd, good to see you again, sir.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good to be back with you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about the whole issue of the tanks rolling up the desert there, illustrative of the speed with which this whole endeavor began.

And truth is, in this case, speed kills. And speed really is a force multiplier. That's kind of a fancy term for saying you can have fewer forces if you move fast. Right?

SHEPPERD: It really is, Miles. And one other thing that really helps with the speed is having the intelligence picture of what's happening in front of you.

We have constellations of sensors from all services up there that enables the Army commanders on the ground and in the headquarters to know exactly what's in front of them and how fast they can move. It keeps the enemy off balance.

U.S. forces have the picture. The enemy forces are blind, and we can do a lot with a smaller number of troops in this way.

O'BRIEN: The first big engagement on the road to Baghdad was Nasiriyah. And I'm curious if there are any specific lessons which come out of Nasiriyah or in general when you look at that ground battle where there was really some heavy engagement with -- between the Iraqis and the U.S.

SHEPPERD: Yes. A couple of really smart things that happened having to do with Nasiriyah. Not so much Nasiriyah itself.

But I think everything was wrong in what they supposed prior to the war. We thought the war in the south would be very easy and it would get very tough once we got to Baghdad.

Because of the Fedayeen Saddam, exactly the opposite was true. It was very tough in the south. And the whole tactic employed by the Fedayeen was to slow down U.S. forces.

What the U.S. forces did was simply bypass areas such as Nasiriyah, continue on the march toward Baghdad to rapidly defeat the Iraqi forces and then send forces in behind them -- in the case of Nasiriyah, it was the 82nd Airborne -- to clean up the pockets of Nasiriyah. So they just ignored them and bypassed them.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk a little bit about something we didn't hear as much about during the first Gulf War, which was incidents of friendly fire.

There were a couple notable exceptions. I recall that British Tornado jet that was struck by a Patriot missile. And I believe an F- 14 or F-18 was struck as well. But nevertheless, it appears as if the U.S. military has improved on its ability to sort out the good guys, the blue team from the red team, as they call them.

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed, they -- we have improved. Is never perfect. They have some things such as blue force tracker and other electronic media. But sometimes these things break.

And it always becomes a factor of the guy with the gun has to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. And when he pulls the trigger, bad things are going to happen on the other end.

The total number of friendly fire casualties went down, as did the total number of casualties in this war. But the percentage actually went up. In other words, the percentage of friendly fire casualties compared to overall casualties went up, because the overall casualties went down.

So we're still not perfect in this area. We're continually doing things to try to reduce them in future warfare.

O'BRIEN: Now, during the first Gulf War, the whole concept of using space as a platform just completely integrated in the U.S. campaign was a new idea. This time around, it was used in so many ways. It's kind of hard to overstate what a useful role that played. SHEPPERD: You simply cannot overstate the importance of space to U.S. and coalition forces. We use it for everything. It's kind of the unseen. We've been work being at it for years, even decades.

We depend on upon it for communications, for intelligence, for weather, everything that we do, of course for targeting. Everything that we do depends upon space assets.

It also makes us vulnerable, and it causes another problem. We are so far outdistancing our potential allies and coalitions, that it makes it difficult for them to keep us with us.

So it's a blessing and a curse, but it's absolutely essential, Miles, in everything we do.

O'BRIEN: It sort of raises a question, though, about what's next for the military as it continues development of things like the F-22 fighter or the joint strike fighter, which have tremendous capacity so far above and beyond anything else out there even in the own U.S. inventory, which is so far above and beyond anything else.

Is it really worth the money to continue pursuing these sorts of programs?

SHEPPERD: Well, in the words of a military guy like me, the answer is absolutely yes. In the words of Congress, they always have questions.

And their question is, look, these things are very expensive. We're so much better than everybody else now. Why do we need to spend money on things such as the F-22, the F-35, that type of thing?

My answer is, we don't want to be near peer with everybody. We want to be decades, even centuries ahead of everybody else. That's what we owe our soldiers and men in uniform.

So my judgment is we should keep pursuing these things. The numbers, we'll have to figure out what we can afford, but we should not stop the development of these super systems like those you mentioned and others, Miles.

O'BRIEN: And some final thoughts about the situation on the ground in Iraq. Situation there is still not very good for U.S. troops who are engaged on a day-to-day basis. Doesn't look like it's going to improve any time soon. Do you expect there will be some sudden turn around, or are we deluding ourselves if we think that?

SHEPPERD: I think anybody that thinks there would be some type of sudden improvement is deluding themselves.

War, pulling the triggers, defeating the enemy is the easier part of war. Running a country and changing the country and the culture, which is what we're into, is very difficult.

We're now trying to spread security. We're trying to, as of the 30th of June, establish a relationship with a new government yet to be defined. And we are, you know, basically trying to change the culture of the Middle East and starting in Iraq.

And it is really difficult. There is not going to be any changes. We'll be around for a long time if they let us, Miles.

O'BRIEN: And when you say long time, I asked General Grange this. You care to put a number on it? How long will U.S. troops be on the ground there?

SHEPPERD: I don't know. But we have to make arrangements with the new government as of the 30th of June how long they will let us stay. Certainly, it will be a couple of years, and it probably will be many years if we do it right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Major General Don Shepperd, our military analyst, good to see you on this anniversary week. And we wish you safe travels. Thank you very much for being with us.

The war on terror and the race for the White House. What sort of political hay will both sides make of the loss of Spain as an ally in Iraq? We'll talk about that.

And on thin ice. Some amazing pictures of the power of nature. We'll tell what you this is all about just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There are reports of more violence in the northern part of Iraq. CNN's Walt Rodgers joining us live now from Baghdad with details -- Walt.

WALT RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Tragedy again strikes Americans working in Iraq, this time civilians.

Just under five hours ago, it was still daylight east of Mosul. A car carrying five non-government organization officials, NGOs, riding as I say, east of Mosul. Then suddenly a drive-by shooting. Someone, some Iraqis opened fire on them.

Three of the American NGOs were killed, two were taken to hospital. We do not yet know which non-government organization these individuals were with, but again, three Americans killed there.

Again, attesting to just what a dangerous place Iraq is. We don't even know whether they were wearing body armor at the time that the drive-by shooting occurred.

We do know that all civilians associated with the provisional government here are under strict instructions that, whenever they go out, they have to wear helmets and, of course, bulletproof vests as they ride in cars. And usually they get a military escort.

NGOs were not likely to have had a military escort at the time. They would have been very vulnerable, as is any civilian, any westerner at this point, who takes to the roads in Iraq. As I say, three Americans killed, two others wounded, NGOs shot at in a drive-by shooting just east of Mosul -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Walt Rodgers in Baghdad. Thank you very much.

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