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National Guardsman Seeks to Become Conscientious Objector; Afghan Army Helps Make Raids on Border

Aired March 16, 2004 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Checking the latest developments now.
Prosecutors are summarizing their case against former Tyco chief Dennis Kozlowski. He and a co-defendant stand accused of looting the company to the tune of $600 million.

The defense says that Kozlowski earned the millions that he was paid, because Tyco's stock price jumped tenfold.

Amid new Islamist threats against France, President Jacques Chirac held anti-terrorism meetings today with German leader Gerhard Schroeder. They said all European nations must rally together in a relentless fight against terrorism.

Secretary of State Colin Powell raising the politically sensitive election year issue of outsourcing of U.S. jobs. Speaking on a trip to India, he said outsourcing was an economic fact of life. Powell says India should allow more U.S. exports into its market to help offset the effect of lost jobs in the U.S.

A U.S. soldier who refused to go back to Iraq after coming home for a break last October is back with his Guard unit in Florida today. But he still wants to be a conscientious objector.

CNN's John Zarrella is on top of the story in North Miami -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, well, that time with the Florida National Guard unit here in North Miami has been very short- lived.

He spent about two and a half hours, Camilio Mejia, behind those closed doors, going through his options and talking with military officials about what he needs to do now.

Mejia will now have to turn himself in tomorrow at 3 p.m. to Fort Stewart, Georgia. He is no longer in the jurisdiction of the National Guard, because his unit had been activated, which makes him part of the active duty military, which means he is subject to the military law and has to go to Fort Stewart, Georgia, to surrender.

Now, Mejia first showed up here this morning at about 10:30, and he told people that he just could not support the war, and that his reasons for being a conscientious objector were simply because he couldn't find any justification for the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. CAMILIO MEJIA, NATIONAL GUARD: Well, when you come here, and you start realizing all the things that happen over there. And you start thinking about the war and the reasons for the war, you try to find justification for everything that happened over there.

And when you try to find this justification and you think about weapons of mass destruction and you think about terrorism and things like that all you find is lies and you have no justification. You need that justification to be able to live with yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Since October, when Mejia did not return to his unit when they were called back up, he has been considered AWOL, absent without leave.

It is not clear exactly what will happen to him. He will get military counsel when he returns, reports to Fort Stewart tomorrow.

Now while he was here today, another one of the soldiers who served with him in Iraq came here to lend support to Mejia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER PEREZ, COMRADE OF MEJIA: All I was saying was that I think he's a very courageous person, not only because of what we went through in Iraq.

He's also -- he's the first one to present his case. You know, he believes in what -- in what he's doing. He's come forward and -- he just -- he's very brave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Military officials here had offered to transport Mejia to Fort Stewart, Georgia, but he said no, he would voluntarily surrender himself, turn himself over to the military authorities tomorrow. And that was acceptable to the National Guard folks here today -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: John Zarrella, thank you.

Well, in West Virginia, it's almost heaven. Then John Kerry wants some heavenly help in his election efforts.

The Democratic candidate talked about military concerns with veterans at Marshall University. Kerry is a decorated veteran, as you know, of the Vietnam War. He's expected to officially kick off his national campaign at a rally tonight in Charleston.

West Virginia's five electoral votes went to George Bush in 2000. The mountain state is typically a bastion for Democrats.

Another Kerry opponent concedes defeat. The Reverend Al Sharpton endorsed Kerry's bid for the presidency after meeting with him in Washington.

But Sharpton says that doesn't mean that he's ending his own campaign. He still wants his voice heard in the Democratic Party.

Sharpton told CNN's Soledad O'Brien on "AMERICAN MORNING" that he's pushing what he calls an urban agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I told him that we must not have a party that marginalizes anyone. We need to deal with everyone from the constituency of Howard Dean, to mine, across the board.

We first of all can't win without that. But second of all, we must stand for people that are suffering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich remains Kerry's only active Democratic opponent.

A new Bush campaign ad targets Kerry's voting record on military funding. As the television ad began appearing in several U.S. markets, President Bush was appearing before a gathering of the U.S. Chamber of commerce in Washington. He touted his health care initiatives before the business leaders.

His ads continue his criticism that Kerry is, quote, "wrong on defense." They say the Massachusetts senator supported the war in Iraq and then voted against military funding.

PHILLIPS: Well, blood is spilled in the mountains of southeastern Afghanistan in new battles against suspected remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda.

U.S. and Pakistani forces report killing dozens of anti-coalition fighters and capturing 18 more. The U.S. hopes the effort will also flush out Osama bin Laden.

Our Ken Robinson is on the phone from Kabul with an update on Operation Mountain Storm.

What can you tell us about the operation and search for Osama bin Laden right now, Ken?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello from Afghanistan.

The search is significant. It is a concurrent search. There are operations going on involving conventional forces. As well, there are combined operations with the Afghan national army and United States Special Operation forces along the border, on the eastern border with Pakistan, by the tribal areas in northern and southern Waziristan.

The Afghan National Army elements, where they have been deployed, have been proving themselves quite well and aggressive, and the central government is very pleased with their performance so far.

PHILLIPS: Ken, I have to ask the question, a lot of critics coming forward wondering why now? Why the increased efforts and -- to the search for Osama bin Laden? A lot of people question the timing, also, politically.

ROBINSON: Well, that -- I think it's a simple issue of resources. Enormous resources were dedicated in Iraq, and those resources have now been freed up and have been shifted to this theater of operation.

As well two assassination attempts against the president of Pakistan has renewed his interest on his side of the border, and that these people who have been provided a safe haven -- as you know, some of the Taliban leadership live in Pakistan in the open and move about with impunity.

And now there's a sense that they are going to be a willing partner in creating a hammer and anvil approach to smoke them out and finish this operation off this year.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ken, as we've been looking at Iraq and the -- trying to form a police force, and an army there in Iraq and how difficult it's been, how is it going in Afghanistan with the Afghanistan National Army, and do you see success stories?

ROBINSON: I really do see success stories in the time that I've been here. The -- right now, there -- they anticipate having 10,000 members of the Afghan National Army. The police force right now is expected to be at about 20,000 in June.

The problem is, is there's not enough resources here to allow them to grow fast enough. They need to take this army equipment, put it in a garrison, train it, deploy it, and then get it out into the fight. And they quicker they do that, the quicker we can reduce our forces.

But for some reason, there's been a hesitancy to spend the money that's required to allow them to accelerate that process. They've taken the Afghan National Army, and they're made it an ethnically diverse group of people that is being very well received in the field when they go deal with tribal elders, which is reducing the risk to U.S. forces.

So the more of these guy we can get in the field, the better off it will be for United States forces.

PHILLIPS: CNN security analyst Ken Robinson, on the inside there with forces in Afghanistan. We'll continue to talk to you throughout the week, thanks, Ken.

Straight ahead, he's been an outspoken opponent of the war in Iraq and a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Now, he's written a new book. Up next, a live chat with Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Also, there could be major changes ahead in pension plans, affecting millions of Americans. We'll have details.

And laid off and lucky. We'll tell you how one man's fate dramatically changed a week after he lost his job.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Our next guest is proof that dreams can make a difference on a global scale.

When the people of his homeland of South Africa were oppressed by a government that did not give them a voice, Archbishop Desmond Tutu had a dream to stop segregation.

And his fight for that dream thrust him onto the world stage when he received a Noble Peace Prize in 1984. He was recognized for his efforts to end Apartheid and to free jailed political prisoner Nelson Mandela.

Since then, Tutu has been recognized as a global voice in religion and politics. And now, he's written about it in a book, his really big dream, a new big book, called "God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time."

Archbishop Desmond Tutu joins me now live from New York. Great to see you, Father Tutu.

ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU, NOBEL LAUREATE: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell me: what is God's dream?

TUTU: God's dream is that you and I and all of us will know that we are family. That we are made for togetherness. That we are made for goodness and love and compassion and that in God's family there are no outsiders. All belong. Because God has no enemies. Certainly, my enemies are not God's enemies.

PHILLIPS: Father, what compelled you to write this book during this time right now?

TUTU: It has been the sense that so many of us feel a despair because of conflict, because of HIV/AIDS, because of poverty, and it just looks like it's so somber, dark.

And one wants to say, "No, no, no, no, God has not finished with God's work. Creation is a -- a work in progress. And ultimately goodness, justice, love, compassion, are going to be the last word, not their counterparts."

And I was trying to say it is, in a sense, apt for our time that we must know that we are made for hope, for love, for caring.

PHILLIPS: Father Tutu, you say that George Bush and Saddam Hussein are both part of God's family. TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: After seeing torture tapes coming out of Iraq, I guess it's so hard to realize that someone like Saddam Hussein could be related to God's family. Can you explain your feelings, your thinking?

TUTU: Well, you know, we in South Africa had the Truth and Relevancy Commission. And we had some of the most devastating revelations of the ghastliest possible atrocities. And we could describe those as monstrous. We could even describe them as demonic.

But one kept reminding people that those who committed them, even though they committed ghastly atrocities, remained children of God, with a possibility of being able to change.

After all, a thief on the cross was able to repent and our Lord promised that thief, "You will be with me in paradise." And Jesus didn't say, "Look at what kind of life you led up until this point."

It is always possible. All of us have the capacity to become saints.

PHILLIPS: Boy, you're giving a lot of us around here some hope, that's for sure, Father Tutu.

Listen, you mention Jesus Christ. With this movie out, "The Passion of the Christ," you know, it's drawn so many people in, to talk about Jesus, to talk about religion.

TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: What about believers, nonbelievers, people of all different religions, maybe even someone who's even agnostic or atheist, can they read your book? Will they feel comfortable reading your book?

TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Will it draw everybody in?

TUTU: I hope so. Because love is universal. I mean, you don't have to tell somebody that loving is better than hating. Even when they are atheists, they know that stealing is wrong. They know that, say, adultery is wrong. And we are trying to remind them that all of us are fundamentally good. The aberration is the bad person.

And God is not upset that Mahatma Gandhi was not a Christian, because God is not a Christian. All are God's children and the different faiths help us to realize the immensity of God. No faith contains the whole truth about God.

And certainly Christians don't have a corner on God and that somehow the other people get to be squeezed in. All of them belong to God. Even the nonbeliever is precious to God. And you try to remind them that you are -- you are actually made for transcendence. You are made for goodness. When you identify that as faith in a God, faith in a supreme being or directly that this is the God of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of God's children, you just had the opportunity to ordain your own daughter. Tell us what that was like.

TUTU: That was a fantastic experience. Really in fact, ordaining her was not so awesome. It was when she blessed me. And when, on the following day, she presided at a Eucharist, and I said, "Now this is for real."

Children always like to play games where they're either a doctor or nurse, and sometimes maybe priest. But I realized that God has blessed us singularly in our children, and maybe in a very special way with this baby who is 40 years old.

PHILLIPS: Well, Father Tutu, not only are you an incredible inspiration for all of us, but definitely your four children and your wife. Talk about God having a dream. He has definitely blessed this world with your presence.

The name of your book, "A Vision of Hope for Our Time: God Has a dream."

Father Tutu, thank you for your time today.

TUTU: Thank you very much. God bless you.

PHILLIPS: Thank you. I know that will work, coming from you.

Well, laid off one week, a millionaire the next. Talk about a blessing. We're going to talk about this special man and a unique lottery ticket, after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Laid off one week, millionaire the next. Got to be the lottery. Tim and Pam Rivers of Salem, Indiana, cashed in the sole winning ticket in last week's Powerball drawing. The little slip of paper, worth $49.9 million before taxes.

Days before, Tim lost his job at a tractor factory, leaving Pam's day care job the young family's only means of support. Well, the Rivers' first order of business, ditching the mobile home and buying a new house.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Al Sharpton, he steps back, but not out of the presidential race. Coming up next in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we'll find out what other African-American stars are looming on the political landscape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Afghan Army Helps Make Raids on Border>


Aired March 16, 2004 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Checking the latest developments now.
Prosecutors are summarizing their case against former Tyco chief Dennis Kozlowski. He and a co-defendant stand accused of looting the company to the tune of $600 million.

The defense says that Kozlowski earned the millions that he was paid, because Tyco's stock price jumped tenfold.

Amid new Islamist threats against France, President Jacques Chirac held anti-terrorism meetings today with German leader Gerhard Schroeder. They said all European nations must rally together in a relentless fight against terrorism.

Secretary of State Colin Powell raising the politically sensitive election year issue of outsourcing of U.S. jobs. Speaking on a trip to India, he said outsourcing was an economic fact of life. Powell says India should allow more U.S. exports into its market to help offset the effect of lost jobs in the U.S.

A U.S. soldier who refused to go back to Iraq after coming home for a break last October is back with his Guard unit in Florida today. But he still wants to be a conscientious objector.

CNN's John Zarrella is on top of the story in North Miami -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, well, that time with the Florida National Guard unit here in North Miami has been very short- lived.

He spent about two and a half hours, Camilio Mejia, behind those closed doors, going through his options and talking with military officials about what he needs to do now.

Mejia will now have to turn himself in tomorrow at 3 p.m. to Fort Stewart, Georgia. He is no longer in the jurisdiction of the National Guard, because his unit had been activated, which makes him part of the active duty military, which means he is subject to the military law and has to go to Fort Stewart, Georgia, to surrender.

Now, Mejia first showed up here this morning at about 10:30, and he told people that he just could not support the war, and that his reasons for being a conscientious objector were simply because he couldn't find any justification for the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. CAMILIO MEJIA, NATIONAL GUARD: Well, when you come here, and you start realizing all the things that happen over there. And you start thinking about the war and the reasons for the war, you try to find justification for everything that happened over there.

And when you try to find this justification and you think about weapons of mass destruction and you think about terrorism and things like that all you find is lies and you have no justification. You need that justification to be able to live with yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Since October, when Mejia did not return to his unit when they were called back up, he has been considered AWOL, absent without leave.

It is not clear exactly what will happen to him. He will get military counsel when he returns, reports to Fort Stewart tomorrow.

Now while he was here today, another one of the soldiers who served with him in Iraq came here to lend support to Mejia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER PEREZ, COMRADE OF MEJIA: All I was saying was that I think he's a very courageous person, not only because of what we went through in Iraq.

He's also -- he's the first one to present his case. You know, he believes in what -- in what he's doing. He's come forward and -- he just -- he's very brave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Military officials here had offered to transport Mejia to Fort Stewart, Georgia, but he said no, he would voluntarily surrender himself, turn himself over to the military authorities tomorrow. And that was acceptable to the National Guard folks here today -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: John Zarrella, thank you.

Well, in West Virginia, it's almost heaven. Then John Kerry wants some heavenly help in his election efforts.

The Democratic candidate talked about military concerns with veterans at Marshall University. Kerry is a decorated veteran, as you know, of the Vietnam War. He's expected to officially kick off his national campaign at a rally tonight in Charleston.

West Virginia's five electoral votes went to George Bush in 2000. The mountain state is typically a bastion for Democrats.

Another Kerry opponent concedes defeat. The Reverend Al Sharpton endorsed Kerry's bid for the presidency after meeting with him in Washington.

But Sharpton says that doesn't mean that he's ending his own campaign. He still wants his voice heard in the Democratic Party.

Sharpton told CNN's Soledad O'Brien on "AMERICAN MORNING" that he's pushing what he calls an urban agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I told him that we must not have a party that marginalizes anyone. We need to deal with everyone from the constituency of Howard Dean, to mine, across the board.

We first of all can't win without that. But second of all, we must stand for people that are suffering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich remains Kerry's only active Democratic opponent.

A new Bush campaign ad targets Kerry's voting record on military funding. As the television ad began appearing in several U.S. markets, President Bush was appearing before a gathering of the U.S. Chamber of commerce in Washington. He touted his health care initiatives before the business leaders.

His ads continue his criticism that Kerry is, quote, "wrong on defense." They say the Massachusetts senator supported the war in Iraq and then voted against military funding.

PHILLIPS: Well, blood is spilled in the mountains of southeastern Afghanistan in new battles against suspected remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda.

U.S. and Pakistani forces report killing dozens of anti-coalition fighters and capturing 18 more. The U.S. hopes the effort will also flush out Osama bin Laden.

Our Ken Robinson is on the phone from Kabul with an update on Operation Mountain Storm.

What can you tell us about the operation and search for Osama bin Laden right now, Ken?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello from Afghanistan.

The search is significant. It is a concurrent search. There are operations going on involving conventional forces. As well, there are combined operations with the Afghan national army and United States Special Operation forces along the border, on the eastern border with Pakistan, by the tribal areas in northern and southern Waziristan.

The Afghan National Army elements, where they have been deployed, have been proving themselves quite well and aggressive, and the central government is very pleased with their performance so far.

PHILLIPS: Ken, I have to ask the question, a lot of critics coming forward wondering why now? Why the increased efforts and -- to the search for Osama bin Laden? A lot of people question the timing, also, politically.

ROBINSON: Well, that -- I think it's a simple issue of resources. Enormous resources were dedicated in Iraq, and those resources have now been freed up and have been shifted to this theater of operation.

As well two assassination attempts against the president of Pakistan has renewed his interest on his side of the border, and that these people who have been provided a safe haven -- as you know, some of the Taliban leadership live in Pakistan in the open and move about with impunity.

And now there's a sense that they are going to be a willing partner in creating a hammer and anvil approach to smoke them out and finish this operation off this year.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ken, as we've been looking at Iraq and the -- trying to form a police force, and an army there in Iraq and how difficult it's been, how is it going in Afghanistan with the Afghanistan National Army, and do you see success stories?

ROBINSON: I really do see success stories in the time that I've been here. The -- right now, there -- they anticipate having 10,000 members of the Afghan National Army. The police force right now is expected to be at about 20,000 in June.

The problem is, is there's not enough resources here to allow them to grow fast enough. They need to take this army equipment, put it in a garrison, train it, deploy it, and then get it out into the fight. And they quicker they do that, the quicker we can reduce our forces.

But for some reason, there's been a hesitancy to spend the money that's required to allow them to accelerate that process. They've taken the Afghan National Army, and they're made it an ethnically diverse group of people that is being very well received in the field when they go deal with tribal elders, which is reducing the risk to U.S. forces.

So the more of these guy we can get in the field, the better off it will be for United States forces.

PHILLIPS: CNN security analyst Ken Robinson, on the inside there with forces in Afghanistan. We'll continue to talk to you throughout the week, thanks, Ken.

Straight ahead, he's been an outspoken opponent of the war in Iraq and a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Now, he's written a new book. Up next, a live chat with Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Also, there could be major changes ahead in pension plans, affecting millions of Americans. We'll have details.

And laid off and lucky. We'll tell you how one man's fate dramatically changed a week after he lost his job.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Our next guest is proof that dreams can make a difference on a global scale.

When the people of his homeland of South Africa were oppressed by a government that did not give them a voice, Archbishop Desmond Tutu had a dream to stop segregation.

And his fight for that dream thrust him onto the world stage when he received a Noble Peace Prize in 1984. He was recognized for his efforts to end Apartheid and to free jailed political prisoner Nelson Mandela.

Since then, Tutu has been recognized as a global voice in religion and politics. And now, he's written about it in a book, his really big dream, a new big book, called "God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time."

Archbishop Desmond Tutu joins me now live from New York. Great to see you, Father Tutu.

ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU, NOBEL LAUREATE: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell me: what is God's dream?

TUTU: God's dream is that you and I and all of us will know that we are family. That we are made for togetherness. That we are made for goodness and love and compassion and that in God's family there are no outsiders. All belong. Because God has no enemies. Certainly, my enemies are not God's enemies.

PHILLIPS: Father, what compelled you to write this book during this time right now?

TUTU: It has been the sense that so many of us feel a despair because of conflict, because of HIV/AIDS, because of poverty, and it just looks like it's so somber, dark.

And one wants to say, "No, no, no, no, God has not finished with God's work. Creation is a -- a work in progress. And ultimately goodness, justice, love, compassion, are going to be the last word, not their counterparts."

And I was trying to say it is, in a sense, apt for our time that we must know that we are made for hope, for love, for caring.

PHILLIPS: Father Tutu, you say that George Bush and Saddam Hussein are both part of God's family. TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: After seeing torture tapes coming out of Iraq, I guess it's so hard to realize that someone like Saddam Hussein could be related to God's family. Can you explain your feelings, your thinking?

TUTU: Well, you know, we in South Africa had the Truth and Relevancy Commission. And we had some of the most devastating revelations of the ghastliest possible atrocities. And we could describe those as monstrous. We could even describe them as demonic.

But one kept reminding people that those who committed them, even though they committed ghastly atrocities, remained children of God, with a possibility of being able to change.

After all, a thief on the cross was able to repent and our Lord promised that thief, "You will be with me in paradise." And Jesus didn't say, "Look at what kind of life you led up until this point."

It is always possible. All of us have the capacity to become saints.

PHILLIPS: Boy, you're giving a lot of us around here some hope, that's for sure, Father Tutu.

Listen, you mention Jesus Christ. With this movie out, "The Passion of the Christ," you know, it's drawn so many people in, to talk about Jesus, to talk about religion.

TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: What about believers, nonbelievers, people of all different religions, maybe even someone who's even agnostic or atheist, can they read your book? Will they feel comfortable reading your book?

TUTU: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Will it draw everybody in?

TUTU: I hope so. Because love is universal. I mean, you don't have to tell somebody that loving is better than hating. Even when they are atheists, they know that stealing is wrong. They know that, say, adultery is wrong. And we are trying to remind them that all of us are fundamentally good. The aberration is the bad person.

And God is not upset that Mahatma Gandhi was not a Christian, because God is not a Christian. All are God's children and the different faiths help us to realize the immensity of God. No faith contains the whole truth about God.

And certainly Christians don't have a corner on God and that somehow the other people get to be squeezed in. All of them belong to God. Even the nonbeliever is precious to God. And you try to remind them that you are -- you are actually made for transcendence. You are made for goodness. When you identify that as faith in a God, faith in a supreme being or directly that this is the God of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of God's children, you just had the opportunity to ordain your own daughter. Tell us what that was like.

TUTU: That was a fantastic experience. Really in fact, ordaining her was not so awesome. It was when she blessed me. And when, on the following day, she presided at a Eucharist, and I said, "Now this is for real."

Children always like to play games where they're either a doctor or nurse, and sometimes maybe priest. But I realized that God has blessed us singularly in our children, and maybe in a very special way with this baby who is 40 years old.

PHILLIPS: Well, Father Tutu, not only are you an incredible inspiration for all of us, but definitely your four children and your wife. Talk about God having a dream. He has definitely blessed this world with your presence.

The name of your book, "A Vision of Hope for Our Time: God Has a dream."

Father Tutu, thank you for your time today.

TUTU: Thank you very much. God bless you.

PHILLIPS: Thank you. I know that will work, coming from you.

Well, laid off one week, a millionaire the next. Talk about a blessing. We're going to talk about this special man and a unique lottery ticket, after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Laid off one week, millionaire the next. Got to be the lottery. Tim and Pam Rivers of Salem, Indiana, cashed in the sole winning ticket in last week's Powerball drawing. The little slip of paper, worth $49.9 million before taxes.

Days before, Tim lost his job at a tractor factory, leaving Pam's day care job the young family's only means of support. Well, the Rivers' first order of business, ditching the mobile home and buying a new house.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Al Sharpton, he steps back, but not out of the presidential race. Coming up next in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we'll find out what other African-American stars are looming on the political landscape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Afghan Army Helps Make Raids on Border>