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Investigators Name Suspects in Spain Attack; Duty Vs. Conscience

Aired March 16, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
Let's check the headlines.

President Bush calling for international solidarity against terrorists. Mr. Bush spoke this morning after meeting with the prime minister of the Netherlands, an ally in the war in Iraq. Spain's new Socialist government, elected after last week's terror attacks, is threatening to pull troops out of that country now.

French authorities are investigating a threatening letter sent to a Paris newspaper. In it, a group calling itself Servants of Allah, the mighty and the Wise, is threatening attacks on French citizens. The letter reportedly mentions France's recent decision to ban religious apparel, including Islamic head scarves, in schools.

No change in interest rates. Today, the Fed decided to keep a key short-term interest rate at 1 percent, a 45-year low. The federal funds rates is the interest rate bank's charge each other on overnight loans. It's hope that low interest rates will help spur the economy and job growth.

When Donald Rumsfeld uttered his now famous line and about known knowns and known unknowns, he wasn't talking about Islamic radicals in Spain and North Africa, but he could have been. The deeper investigators look into last week's terror attacks in Madrid, the more entangled they get in suspects and history and sinister future objectives. Authorities are looking for half dozen Moroccans, maybe more, in addition to the five suspects they are already holding. And they're looking at a link with last year's suicide attacks in Casablanca, attacks being laid out at al Qaeda's doorstep.

In Madrid, CNN's Al Goodman has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Spanish investigator tells CNN police have identified at least six Moroccans who placed bombs on the Madrid commuter trains last Thursday in Spain's deadliest terrorist attack.

One suspect, Jamal Zougam, age 30, was arrested Saturday, but others remain at large.

Zougam owned a home here, modest apartments in eastern Madrid. Spanish court documents say police searched his home in August 2001, just before the September 11 attacks.

He was not arrested then, but police said he had the phone number of several men who have since been detained as al Qaeda suspects.

(on camera): Since before the September 11 attack, Spanish investigators have been trying to connect the dot among various suspected Islamic radicals or terrorists. Sometimes, as in the case of the man who lived here, the arrests have come months or years after the individual first came to the attention of the authorities.

(voice-over): Reports say Zougam was linked to a cell phone found with an unexploded bomb from last Thursday's attacks. A neighbor says he owned a small telephone business.

Court documents say Zougam was a follower of this man, Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, in custody as the suspected head of al Qaeda in Spain.

Moroccan investigators tell CNN Zougam also has been linked to two brothers who are in custody in connection with the Casablanca bombings last May that killed several dozen people.

At least six men -- three Moroccans, two Indians and an Algerian -- are being held since the Madrid bombings. The latest arrest, Basque police in the northern city of San Sebastian detained an Algerian man.

An official told CNN police remembered threats he made two years ago that there would be deaths in Atocha. Police didn't give it much credence then, but after the bomb struck the Atocha train station, they went looking for him, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to sort out the players and motives of terror networks, but it certainly helps. Doctor Marc Sageman is an M.D. and Ph.D. at the university of Pennsylvania and author of the upcoming book "Understanding Terror Networks."

He joins me live now from Philadelphia.

Dr. Sageman, good to see you.

MARC SAGEMAN, AUTHOR, "UNDERSTANDING TERROR NETWORKS": Good afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's start with these graphics that we put together so viewers can understand these connections that you're going to layout for us. Al Goodman talking about Jamal Zougam in his piece.

First, let's talk about the connection from Jamal all of the way to Zacarias Moussaoui.

SAGEMAN: Yes.

Jamal Zougam seems to have known the Benyaich brothers since 1997. They're both from same town, Tangiers in Morocco. The seem to have -- the Benyaich brothers also seemed to have lived, at least for a week or two, at the end of 1998 with David Courtailler, who is also an al Qaeda member. And David Courtailler just came to Madrid after he had been training in Afghanistan.

And, of course, David Courtailler was the old roommate of Moussaoui, Zacarias Moussaoui, in London in 1997.

PHILLIPS: Then, once again, another name that we know here in the United States, Mohamed Atta, obviously the 9/11 hijacker, once again connected to Jamal. Explain this connection.

SAGEMAN: Yes.

Zougam was part of Yarkas' cell in Madrid. And his name appeared twice in the indictment that was released in September of last year by Judge Garzon. And Yarkas was connected to his friends from Syria in Hamburg, namely Zamar (ph). And Zamar, of course, was part of the Hamburg cell of which Mohamed Atta was one of the chiefs.

PHILLIPS: We mentioned Yarkas, the former Madrid cell leader. And you have talked about the different cells of al Qaeda and how you divide them up into different clumps.

The one that I want to talk about is Maghreb, which is Arabic for West, one and how you tie in this clump of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and also this Madrid cell. Tell me about -- now that we've laid out the connections of this Madrid cell to people like Mohamed Atta and Zacarias Moussaoui, these were, you say, for the most part, former drug dealers who found religion and all came together and sort of joined this brotherhood.

SAGEMAN: Not all of them. But the Benyaich brothers were drug dealers. And the two Courtailler brothers were drug users.

And, indeed, they all found Islam as a way to kick the habit and as a way to come and have a clean life. So Islam was positive. But then, with the process of what I call a bunch of guy phenomenon, people who are together for a long time and seem to one-up each other, they developed this militant and violent few of Islam, interpretation of Islam, which, of course, made them susceptible to joining al Qaeda.

PHILLIPS: So you look at the connections among all these men. Is it fair to say that this -- the way this cell operates is very much like the mafia?

SAGEMAN: In a way, it is. But it's a large social movement.

The mafia is local. Those guys form Islamist revivalist social movement that spans the globe. So, in a way, yes, it is like the mafia. They have the same type of loyalty based on very strong social bond, based on kinship and friendship and friendship that predated their joining al Qaeda. But unlike the mafia, they're global.

PHILLIPS: Finally, I want to ask you, before we leave, Dr. Sageman, you've been working on this book for quite a while, all this information, tracing history of the network and all these connections of all these various individuals.

Obviously, we know so much more about the terror networks because of 9/11. As we learn more and as doctors like you take this information and put it together for us, do you foresee eventually that terror networks will be abolished?

SAGEMAN: They may.

First of all, what we need to do is to catch all the people that are part of the network. But this is the easy part. The hard part is to prevent new people from becoming part of this network. And that's where the war of ideas comes in. We need to discourage new people from joining those networks and to channel their energy in other ways.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Marc Sageman, University of Pennsylvania, interesting work, fascinating book. Thank you, sir.

SAGEMAN: Thank you.

Well, other news across America now.

Is this the face of Ohio's highway shooter? Well, local authorities want to talk to 28-year-old Charles McCoy, who has gotten two speeding tickets since the spree began last May. Authorities now say that they have evidence linking McCoy to those shootings. He is considered armed and dangerous.

In Utah, court sources say child endangerment charges will be dropped against Melissa Ann Rowland. Prosecutors filed those charges after one of Rowland's twins was born with traces of alcohol and cocaine in her system. Rowland still faces felony homicide charges for allegedly refusing a C-section that could have saved the life of the other twin.

And the Eskimos have 34 words for snow. Bet you folks in the Midwest and Northeast have a few themselves. We just can't say them on TV. Des Moines, Iowa, under 15 inches and at least a foot forecast for Boston in what we hope is winter's swan song.

Well, Camilo Mejia fought in Iraq. He came home for some R&R and then he refused to go back. Now the staff sergeant says he will go to prison before he fights again.

CNN's John Zarrella is in Miami with the latest for us -- hi, John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Kyra.

Well, Camilo Mejia was here at the Florida National Guard Armory in North Miami for about 2 1/2 hours this afternoon, where he met with military officials, military attorneys, to decide what ultimately he would do. He agreed that what he will do is to turn himself over tomorrow to active duty military authorities at Fort Stewart, Georgia at 3:00 p.m. tomorrow afternoon, at which point we will further understand what, if any, charges will be brought against Mejia. Now, what had happened was, in October, he was called back up after serving in Iraq. His unit was called back up. Mejia did not show up. He went into hiding for about five months until deciding he was going to go public with his story. He decided that he was, after all, going to declare himself a conscientious objector because he could no longer find any justification for the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. CAMILO MEJIA, U.S. ARMY: Well, when you come here and then you start realizing all the things that happened over there and you start thinking about the war and the reasons for the war, you try to find justification for everything that happened over there. And when you try to find this justification and you think about weapons of mass destruction and you think about terrorism and things like that, all you find is lies. And you have no justification. You need that justification to be able to live with yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Now, it's very unclear as to what will ultimately happen here to Mejia.

He could certainly face charges of being AWOL. He was AWOL since October. He could also face charges of desertion, which could carry potentially up to five years in prison. Now, while he had his press conference here today, one thing he did was, he held up some religious artifacts. And he said that these religious artifacts were given to him by other soldiers in Iraq in support of his position, his position against the wash.

So, at this point now, Mejia says he's going to spend a little bit of time with his 3 1/2-year-old daughter before he leaves for Fort Stewart, Georgia, again to turn himself into active military authorities tomorrow afternoon -- Kyra.

John Zarrella, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Israel strikes back in Gaza after this weekend's suicide bombings and Ashdod. Separately, an 11-year-old boy is caught at a checkpoint with a bomb in his backpack. He was as surprised as anyone.

And later, Diana Degarmo. Before she hit it big on "American Idol," well, guess what? She had her own moment on CNN, a "TALKBACK" flashback. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA DEGARMO, SINGER (SINGING): You can get one in your briefcase, on a plane, or in a car. So tell me, why haven't I heard from you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: News around the world now.

Pakistan's offensive against Taliban and al Qaeda fighters turns deadly. Pakistani troops battled enemy forces near the border town of Wana today; 24 suspects were arrested; 24 suspected terrorists were killed; 18. Eight Pakistani fighters were also killed.

Israel makes good on its threat to step up targeted killings after weekend suicide attacks. Israeli missile fires struck a house in Gaza City City. Two people were killed. Palestinian sources say they were Islamic Jihad members.

We've all become way too familiar with the blight of terrorist bombings in the Middle East. A recent attempt in Nablus shows the links that some groups will go to carry out their attacks.

Our Paula Hancocks introduces us to a Palestinian boy who almost became an agent of violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An 11-year-old schoolboy potentially the latest recruit for a suicide bombing. One crucial difference. Abdallah Quran he didn't know it.

A controlled explosion of the bomb belt Abdallah was unwittingly carrying through a roadblock in Nablus in the West Bank on Monday. Abdallah was working as a porter after school, carrying people's bags across the checkpoint for money. He says he was given five shekels, about $1, and told to carry three packages and give them to an old woman at the next checkpoint.

He said: "I don't know anything about them. They were old men, those who gave them to me." An Israeli soldier checked the backpack Abdallah was carrying and discovered between seven and 10 kilograms of explosives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I saw a box and some white wires. And looking closer, I saw sort of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with squares in it and I knew something wasn't right.

HANCOCKS: According to Israeli Defense Forces, those who paid Abdallah for transporting the bag tried to detonate it once the bag was discovered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What they tried to do, the moment the boy got here to be checked by the soldiers, was to simply explode the bomb together with the child and the soldiers that were here.

SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR (through translator): Our children are meant to be children, like anybody else. Our children are meant to be the doctors, the painters, the farmers, and not the suicide bombers. And we cannot accept this under any circumstances. And this should not be tolerated by any Palestinians. HANCOCKS: Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmad Yassin has issued a fatwa, or religious edict, in the past forbidding the use of children in terror attacks. But the Israeli Defense Force claims 29 suicide attacks have been carried out by children under 18 since the beginning of the intifada in 2000.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, the headline might read, the pope meets Jesus. Well, we're talking about "The Passion" actor, actually.

And we knew her when, an "American Idol" finalist who made an appearance right here on CNN's "TALKBACK LIVE."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you know on LIVE FROM we have producers that like to watch reality TV. And the latest mutation, Ashlee, is heading to MTV. Ashlee Simpson is the younger sister of Jessica Simpson, who's already starring in "Newlyweds" about her like with Nick Lachey.

Well, the new show follows Ashlee as she records her first album, auditions a band and breaks up with her boyfriend.

Flipping channels, they're down to the dirty dozen on "American Idol" tonight and one of the finalists have a special place here in the hearts of all of us CNN folks. Diana Degarmo visited "TALKBACK LIVE" seven years ago and took center stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEGARMO (singing): Well, back in 1876, an ol' boy named Bell invented a contraption that we know so well. By the 1950s, they were in everybody's home. It's the crazy little thing they call the telephone. Well, there's one on every corner, in the back of every...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, good luck, Diana. And just remember who your friends are when you make it to the top.

Well, checking some other entertainment headlines this March 16, under different circumstances, this could be our lead story. The pope met Jesus, of course, we mean the big screen redeemer Jim Caviezel, who stars in Mel Gibson's ultra-ballyhooed "The Passion of the Christ." Caviezel was in Rome to attend the screening of his film this weekend. He met the pope on Monday and received a special blessing.

Meanwhile, the movie continues to walk on box office water. And Jim is a babe.

But tougher times for Whitney Houston. The pop diva is in drug rehab, her publicist says. No details on where she's in treatment or for how long and also no word on who's taking care of Houston's 10- year-old daughter. Houston's husband, Bobby Brown, is currently serving a 60-day jail term in Atlanta for probation violations.

And finally, Charlie Sheen and Denise Richards have a new role, parents. The acting duo who married in June of 2002 had a baby girl on March 9. Sam Sheen weighed in 7 pounds, 3 ounces. Everyone is said to doing just fine.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Laid off one week, millionaire the next. Got to be the lottery.

Tim and Pam Rivers of Salem, Indiana, cashed in the sole winning ticket in last week's Powerball drawing, a little slip of paper worth $49.9 million, before taxes. Days before, Tim lost his job at a tractor factory, leaving Pam's day care job the young family's only means of support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM RIVERS, LOTTERY WINNER: I was just going to get up today and I guess go look for a job or whatever. I was wondering where the money was going to come from to pay my bills and everything. And by chance, I guess the grace of God struck me yesterday and said, OK, well, I'm going to give you that money or whatever. I don't know. It's just seemed like everything fell in my lap and I'm going to take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And the Rivers' first order of business, they're ditching their mobile home and they're buying a house.

That wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Conscience>


Aired March 16, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
Let's check the headlines.

President Bush calling for international solidarity against terrorists. Mr. Bush spoke this morning after meeting with the prime minister of the Netherlands, an ally in the war in Iraq. Spain's new Socialist government, elected after last week's terror attacks, is threatening to pull troops out of that country now.

French authorities are investigating a threatening letter sent to a Paris newspaper. In it, a group calling itself Servants of Allah, the mighty and the Wise, is threatening attacks on French citizens. The letter reportedly mentions France's recent decision to ban religious apparel, including Islamic head scarves, in schools.

No change in interest rates. Today, the Fed decided to keep a key short-term interest rate at 1 percent, a 45-year low. The federal funds rates is the interest rate bank's charge each other on overnight loans. It's hope that low interest rates will help spur the economy and job growth.

When Donald Rumsfeld uttered his now famous line and about known knowns and known unknowns, he wasn't talking about Islamic radicals in Spain and North Africa, but he could have been. The deeper investigators look into last week's terror attacks in Madrid, the more entangled they get in suspects and history and sinister future objectives. Authorities are looking for half dozen Moroccans, maybe more, in addition to the five suspects they are already holding. And they're looking at a link with last year's suicide attacks in Casablanca, attacks being laid out at al Qaeda's doorstep.

In Madrid, CNN's Al Goodman has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Spanish investigator tells CNN police have identified at least six Moroccans who placed bombs on the Madrid commuter trains last Thursday in Spain's deadliest terrorist attack.

One suspect, Jamal Zougam, age 30, was arrested Saturday, but others remain at large.

Zougam owned a home here, modest apartments in eastern Madrid. Spanish court documents say police searched his home in August 2001, just before the September 11 attacks.

He was not arrested then, but police said he had the phone number of several men who have since been detained as al Qaeda suspects.

(on camera): Since before the September 11 attack, Spanish investigators have been trying to connect the dot among various suspected Islamic radicals or terrorists. Sometimes, as in the case of the man who lived here, the arrests have come months or years after the individual first came to the attention of the authorities.

(voice-over): Reports say Zougam was linked to a cell phone found with an unexploded bomb from last Thursday's attacks. A neighbor says he owned a small telephone business.

Court documents say Zougam was a follower of this man, Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, in custody as the suspected head of al Qaeda in Spain.

Moroccan investigators tell CNN Zougam also has been linked to two brothers who are in custody in connection with the Casablanca bombings last May that killed several dozen people.

At least six men -- three Moroccans, two Indians and an Algerian -- are being held since the Madrid bombings. The latest arrest, Basque police in the northern city of San Sebastian detained an Algerian man.

An official told CNN police remembered threats he made two years ago that there would be deaths in Atocha. Police didn't give it much credence then, but after the bomb struck the Atocha train station, they went looking for him, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to sort out the players and motives of terror networks, but it certainly helps. Doctor Marc Sageman is an M.D. and Ph.D. at the university of Pennsylvania and author of the upcoming book "Understanding Terror Networks."

He joins me live now from Philadelphia.

Dr. Sageman, good to see you.

MARC SAGEMAN, AUTHOR, "UNDERSTANDING TERROR NETWORKS": Good afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's start with these graphics that we put together so viewers can understand these connections that you're going to layout for us. Al Goodman talking about Jamal Zougam in his piece.

First, let's talk about the connection from Jamal all of the way to Zacarias Moussaoui.

SAGEMAN: Yes.

Jamal Zougam seems to have known the Benyaich brothers since 1997. They're both from same town, Tangiers in Morocco. The seem to have -- the Benyaich brothers also seemed to have lived, at least for a week or two, at the end of 1998 with David Courtailler, who is also an al Qaeda member. And David Courtailler just came to Madrid after he had been training in Afghanistan.

And, of course, David Courtailler was the old roommate of Moussaoui, Zacarias Moussaoui, in London in 1997.

PHILLIPS: Then, once again, another name that we know here in the United States, Mohamed Atta, obviously the 9/11 hijacker, once again connected to Jamal. Explain this connection.

SAGEMAN: Yes.

Zougam was part of Yarkas' cell in Madrid. And his name appeared twice in the indictment that was released in September of last year by Judge Garzon. And Yarkas was connected to his friends from Syria in Hamburg, namely Zamar (ph). And Zamar, of course, was part of the Hamburg cell of which Mohamed Atta was one of the chiefs.

PHILLIPS: We mentioned Yarkas, the former Madrid cell leader. And you have talked about the different cells of al Qaeda and how you divide them up into different clumps.

The one that I want to talk about is Maghreb, which is Arabic for West, one and how you tie in this clump of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and also this Madrid cell. Tell me about -- now that we've laid out the connections of this Madrid cell to people like Mohamed Atta and Zacarias Moussaoui, these were, you say, for the most part, former drug dealers who found religion and all came together and sort of joined this brotherhood.

SAGEMAN: Not all of them. But the Benyaich brothers were drug dealers. And the two Courtailler brothers were drug users.

And, indeed, they all found Islam as a way to kick the habit and as a way to come and have a clean life. So Islam was positive. But then, with the process of what I call a bunch of guy phenomenon, people who are together for a long time and seem to one-up each other, they developed this militant and violent few of Islam, interpretation of Islam, which, of course, made them susceptible to joining al Qaeda.

PHILLIPS: So you look at the connections among all these men. Is it fair to say that this -- the way this cell operates is very much like the mafia?

SAGEMAN: In a way, it is. But it's a large social movement.

The mafia is local. Those guys form Islamist revivalist social movement that spans the globe. So, in a way, yes, it is like the mafia. They have the same type of loyalty based on very strong social bond, based on kinship and friendship and friendship that predated their joining al Qaeda. But unlike the mafia, they're global.

PHILLIPS: Finally, I want to ask you, before we leave, Dr. Sageman, you've been working on this book for quite a while, all this information, tracing history of the network and all these connections of all these various individuals.

Obviously, we know so much more about the terror networks because of 9/11. As we learn more and as doctors like you take this information and put it together for us, do you foresee eventually that terror networks will be abolished?

SAGEMAN: They may.

First of all, what we need to do is to catch all the people that are part of the network. But this is the easy part. The hard part is to prevent new people from becoming part of this network. And that's where the war of ideas comes in. We need to discourage new people from joining those networks and to channel their energy in other ways.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Marc Sageman, University of Pennsylvania, interesting work, fascinating book. Thank you, sir.

SAGEMAN: Thank you.

Well, other news across America now.

Is this the face of Ohio's highway shooter? Well, local authorities want to talk to 28-year-old Charles McCoy, who has gotten two speeding tickets since the spree began last May. Authorities now say that they have evidence linking McCoy to those shootings. He is considered armed and dangerous.

In Utah, court sources say child endangerment charges will be dropped against Melissa Ann Rowland. Prosecutors filed those charges after one of Rowland's twins was born with traces of alcohol and cocaine in her system. Rowland still faces felony homicide charges for allegedly refusing a C-section that could have saved the life of the other twin.

And the Eskimos have 34 words for snow. Bet you folks in the Midwest and Northeast have a few themselves. We just can't say them on TV. Des Moines, Iowa, under 15 inches and at least a foot forecast for Boston in what we hope is winter's swan song.

Well, Camilo Mejia fought in Iraq. He came home for some R&R and then he refused to go back. Now the staff sergeant says he will go to prison before he fights again.

CNN's John Zarrella is in Miami with the latest for us -- hi, John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Kyra.

Well, Camilo Mejia was here at the Florida National Guard Armory in North Miami for about 2 1/2 hours this afternoon, where he met with military officials, military attorneys, to decide what ultimately he would do. He agreed that what he will do is to turn himself over tomorrow to active duty military authorities at Fort Stewart, Georgia at 3:00 p.m. tomorrow afternoon, at which point we will further understand what, if any, charges will be brought against Mejia. Now, what had happened was, in October, he was called back up after serving in Iraq. His unit was called back up. Mejia did not show up. He went into hiding for about five months until deciding he was going to go public with his story. He decided that he was, after all, going to declare himself a conscientious objector because he could no longer find any justification for the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. CAMILO MEJIA, U.S. ARMY: Well, when you come here and then you start realizing all the things that happened over there and you start thinking about the war and the reasons for the war, you try to find justification for everything that happened over there. And when you try to find this justification and you think about weapons of mass destruction and you think about terrorism and things like that, all you find is lies. And you have no justification. You need that justification to be able to live with yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Now, it's very unclear as to what will ultimately happen here to Mejia.

He could certainly face charges of being AWOL. He was AWOL since October. He could also face charges of desertion, which could carry potentially up to five years in prison. Now, while he had his press conference here today, one thing he did was, he held up some religious artifacts. And he said that these religious artifacts were given to him by other soldiers in Iraq in support of his position, his position against the wash.

So, at this point now, Mejia says he's going to spend a little bit of time with his 3 1/2-year-old daughter before he leaves for Fort Stewart, Georgia, again to turn himself into active military authorities tomorrow afternoon -- Kyra.

John Zarrella, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Israel strikes back in Gaza after this weekend's suicide bombings and Ashdod. Separately, an 11-year-old boy is caught at a checkpoint with a bomb in his backpack. He was as surprised as anyone.

And later, Diana Degarmo. Before she hit it big on "American Idol," well, guess what? She had her own moment on CNN, a "TALKBACK" flashback. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA DEGARMO, SINGER (SINGING): You can get one in your briefcase, on a plane, or in a car. So tell me, why haven't I heard from you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: News around the world now.

Pakistan's offensive against Taliban and al Qaeda fighters turns deadly. Pakistani troops battled enemy forces near the border town of Wana today; 24 suspects were arrested; 24 suspected terrorists were killed; 18. Eight Pakistani fighters were also killed.

Israel makes good on its threat to step up targeted killings after weekend suicide attacks. Israeli missile fires struck a house in Gaza City City. Two people were killed. Palestinian sources say they were Islamic Jihad members.

We've all become way too familiar with the blight of terrorist bombings in the Middle East. A recent attempt in Nablus shows the links that some groups will go to carry out their attacks.

Our Paula Hancocks introduces us to a Palestinian boy who almost became an agent of violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An 11-year-old schoolboy potentially the latest recruit for a suicide bombing. One crucial difference. Abdallah Quran he didn't know it.

A controlled explosion of the bomb belt Abdallah was unwittingly carrying through a roadblock in Nablus in the West Bank on Monday. Abdallah was working as a porter after school, carrying people's bags across the checkpoint for money. He says he was given five shekels, about $1, and told to carry three packages and give them to an old woman at the next checkpoint.

He said: "I don't know anything about them. They were old men, those who gave them to me." An Israeli soldier checked the backpack Abdallah was carrying and discovered between seven and 10 kilograms of explosives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I saw a box and some white wires. And looking closer, I saw sort of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with squares in it and I knew something wasn't right.

HANCOCKS: According to Israeli Defense Forces, those who paid Abdallah for transporting the bag tried to detonate it once the bag was discovered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What they tried to do, the moment the boy got here to be checked by the soldiers, was to simply explode the bomb together with the child and the soldiers that were here.

SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR (through translator): Our children are meant to be children, like anybody else. Our children are meant to be the doctors, the painters, the farmers, and not the suicide bombers. And we cannot accept this under any circumstances. And this should not be tolerated by any Palestinians. HANCOCKS: Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmad Yassin has issued a fatwa, or religious edict, in the past forbidding the use of children in terror attacks. But the Israeli Defense Force claims 29 suicide attacks have been carried out by children under 18 since the beginning of the intifada in 2000.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, the headline might read, the pope meets Jesus. Well, we're talking about "The Passion" actor, actually.

And we knew her when, an "American Idol" finalist who made an appearance right here on CNN's "TALKBACK LIVE."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you know on LIVE FROM we have producers that like to watch reality TV. And the latest mutation, Ashlee, is heading to MTV. Ashlee Simpson is the younger sister of Jessica Simpson, who's already starring in "Newlyweds" about her like with Nick Lachey.

Well, the new show follows Ashlee as she records her first album, auditions a band and breaks up with her boyfriend.

Flipping channels, they're down to the dirty dozen on "American Idol" tonight and one of the finalists have a special place here in the hearts of all of us CNN folks. Diana Degarmo visited "TALKBACK LIVE" seven years ago and took center stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEGARMO (singing): Well, back in 1876, an ol' boy named Bell invented a contraption that we know so well. By the 1950s, they were in everybody's home. It's the crazy little thing they call the telephone. Well, there's one on every corner, in the back of every...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, good luck, Diana. And just remember who your friends are when you make it to the top.

Well, checking some other entertainment headlines this March 16, under different circumstances, this could be our lead story. The pope met Jesus, of course, we mean the big screen redeemer Jim Caviezel, who stars in Mel Gibson's ultra-ballyhooed "The Passion of the Christ." Caviezel was in Rome to attend the screening of his film this weekend. He met the pope on Monday and received a special blessing.

Meanwhile, the movie continues to walk on box office water. And Jim is a babe.

But tougher times for Whitney Houston. The pop diva is in drug rehab, her publicist says. No details on where she's in treatment or for how long and also no word on who's taking care of Houston's 10- year-old daughter. Houston's husband, Bobby Brown, is currently serving a 60-day jail term in Atlanta for probation violations.

And finally, Charlie Sheen and Denise Richards have a new role, parents. The acting duo who married in June of 2002 had a baby girl on March 9. Sam Sheen weighed in 7 pounds, 3 ounces. Everyone is said to doing just fine.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Laid off one week, millionaire the next. Got to be the lottery.

Tim and Pam Rivers of Salem, Indiana, cashed in the sole winning ticket in last week's Powerball drawing, a little slip of paper worth $49.9 million, before taxes. Days before, Tim lost his job at a tractor factory, leaving Pam's day care job the young family's only means of support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM RIVERS, LOTTERY WINNER: I was just going to get up today and I guess go look for a job or whatever. I was wondering where the money was going to come from to pay my bills and everything. And by chance, I guess the grace of God struck me yesterday and said, OK, well, I'm going to give you that money or whatever. I don't know. It's just seemed like everything fell in my lap and I'm going to take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And the Rivers' first order of business, they're ditching their mobile home and they're buying a house.

That wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

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