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U.S. Officials Say Zawahiri Just as Crucial as bin Laden
Aired March 19, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Those are the most recent blasts in Baghdad. More violence marks the first anniversary of the war in Iraq, while President Bush vows to finish the fight.
And tightening the noose around al Qaeda. If bin Laden's top lieutenant is captured, what will it mean for the global war on terror?
Panic and confusion at a Texas zoo after an escaped gorilla attacks. You'll hear from one of the victims this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At one point or another, and sometimes simultaneously, was severely dysfunctional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God made me live for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Crushed under a ton of dry wall. A boy's amazing survival story.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien are off today.
This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM begins right now.
Enter the Taliban. As Pakistani forces battle al Qaeda fighters and local tribesmen over a presumed high value target, the group that ruled Afghanistan up until late 2001 is vowing to strike back.
This high value target is thought to be al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
We get the latest now from CNN's Nic Robertson from Islamabad. He's on the telephone with us.
And Nic, officials are still uncertain whether indeed they have al-Zawahiri surrounded?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, they believe that they still have him surrounded. What concerns some military officials is the fact that this is a mountainous area, that it's perhaps as large as 12 to 15 square miles, that they have the area surrounded but not the compound per se where they believe that as many as 400 al Qaeda people may be hiding out, including al-Zawahiri.
While they say that they are able to contain and control that area, they cannot say 100 percent that they can keep the area sealed off but at the moment they still believe that they have Ayman al- Zawahiri in that area.
The reason they believe that is because some of the people they have captured have told them so. They also say they picked up intercepts as well indicating that he is there, although they do believe, as I say, that this is a very difficult area for them to maintain 100 watertight seal, if you will, on that area.
Also, the Taliban have made a statement in the last few hours, the Taliban accusing the Pakistani government of deceiving them saying that the Pakistani government has attacked the Taliban in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
And they say, the Taliban says that they will attack Pakistani troops if they are attacked, the Taliban also saying that they will disrupt the government in Afghanistan and that they will attack U.S. forces inside Afghanistan as well that from the Taliban in the last few hours -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And, Nic, of the 7,000 or so Pakistani military personnel that have surrounded this area what measures are being used in which to conduct this operation?
ROBERTSON: Well, Pakistani military officials say that they have been engaged in heavy artillery fire, firing that into the areas where they believe the al Qaeda are holding up.
They've been using Cobra attack helicopters as well and they say there have been firefights throughout the day. They say they've been receiving mortar fire and rocket fire as well as gunfire from the al Qaeda elements and what we have heard from the Pakistani officials today seems to indicate that they haven't gone on an offensive per se to try and take control or get into some of these compounds.
What they seem to be focusing on doing is providing an inner and an outer cordon in a 12 to 15 mile square mountainous area so that nobody escapes that area rather than trying an all out offensive on some of the buildings they believe that al Qaeda might be hiding out in there -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And, Nic, now the U.S. has labeled Pakistan as a non- NATO ally opening the door to allowing Pakistan to get a number of American artillery. When might Pakistan be taken advantage of that new offer?
ROBERTSON: Well, as far as Pakistani military officials are concerned, they would like to take advantage of that type of offer as soon as possible. This is a very important message for President Musharraf politically inside Pakistan.
He needs to show the Pakistani population that in his relationship with the United States he is not a puppet, as some here would accuse him of as being of the United States but that the gets something and the military helps but Pakistan's army has been something that the Pakistani people.
And the Pakistani military have long wanted to put on a better footing to get such things as aircraft and attack helicopters, so this is something that will play very well domestically for President Musharraf and, in the long run, whenever that equipment should arrive, will help the Pakistani military in their efforts to curb al Qaeda and curb whatever elements are operating within their borders -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Nic Robertson on the phone with us from Islamabad, thank you very much.
Well experts inside and outside the U.S. government point out no single arrest or battle will win the war on terror but they don't call al-Zawahiri the brains of al Qaeda for nothing.
Our coverage continues with CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Counterterrorism officials say it's just as crucial to get their hands on Ayman al-Zawahiri as Osama bin Laden.
MATT LEVITT, FORMER FBI ANALYST: Al-Zawahiri is bound to have vast personal knowledge about things that are going on now, where operatives are. He's bound to have cell phones, computers, documents, all the kinds of materials that we are eager to exploit.
ARENA: Officials say it's probably true that Zawahiri spent most of his energy just staying alive but say he may have real time information regarding al Qaeda plots. Intelligence officials also believe it is his voice on recent and threatening al Qaeda audio tapes.
Officials say Zawahiri's capture could also offer clues to Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. They believe bin Laden and Zawahiri have maintained close contact and communicate regularly.
If Zawahiri is turned over to U.S. custody, as expected, officials say he will meet with the same fate as other captured al Qaeda leaders, such as Ramzi Binalsheibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. He'll be whisked away to an undisclosed location, held as an enemy combatant and interrogated as quickly as possible.
KEN PIERNICK, FORMER FBI OFFICIAL: You're disoriented and you become unhinged. You have a sense of abandonment and in that time you are uniquely vulnerable and may be willing to say things that you might not after you've had a space of time to recover.
ARENA (on camera): What Zawahiri's capture will not do is put al Qaeda out of business. Experts have repeatedly said the terror movement is much bigger than any one man or organization. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And in just a few minutes, we'll look deeper into al Qaeda minus al-Zawahiri long before that question or that equation is actually proven with CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen. That's at quarter past this hour of LIVE FROM.
Well, it was a year ago today that President Bush ordered the start of the war that toppled Saddam Hussein and one year later the sounds of war continue to echo in Baghdad.
After dark today, explosions were heard around the main American compound, the Green Zone, and U.S. officials said mortars or rockets may have been fired at the complex but they caused no damage or casualties. Today's anniversary was marked by Mr. Bush with a speech about the war on terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no neutral ground, no neutral ground in a fight between civilization and terror because there's no neutral ground between good and evil, freedom and slavery, and life and death. The war on terror is not a figure of speech. It is an inescapable calling of our (unintelligible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell landed today in Baghdad to mark the war's anniversary and he acknowledged it coincided with a spike in attacks by the resistance.
At a news conference later a number of Arab journalists staged a walk out to protest the killings of an Arab correspondent and his cameraman. Powell pledged to investigate the deaths, which apparently occurred when U.S. troops shot at a car that ran a checkpoint and ended up hitting the journalists.
In this country, a number of antiwar protests are planned throughout the weekend in conjunction with the war's anniversary. About 200 people marched this morning at an antiwar rally in San Francisco.
In other news across America, public schools in the District of Columbia are on lock down after an e-mailed bomb threat. A security sweep of all 165 public schools in the District of Columbia found no bombs. Classes are now back to normal. A D.C. official says schools were being especially cautious due to the war in Iraq anniversary.
In two suburban Washington schools water woes for kids, health officials found elevated lead levels in water during testing. They say it's limited to specific sinks or water fountains and not the entire water system throughout the schools in D.C. The suspect in those Ohio highway shootings could return to the state as early as today. Charles McCoy, Jr. waived extradition during a court hearing in Las Vegas.
It is day two of deliberations in the Tyco trial. Two former executives who lived affluent lifestyles are accused of bilking the company out of millions of dollars. The judge in the case is already answering a legal question from the jurors.
CNNFN's Chris Huntington is live from New York with the latest on their deliberations.
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, well good afternoon. The issue here really at the heart of the case is criminal intent and the jurors after only deliberating for a few hours yesterday sent a note out to Judge Michael Obus asking him to redefine exactly what criminal intent means, what state of mind is relevant for them to find a guilty charge particularly on the charges of grand larceny, which are the most serious charges at play here.
The judge worked on it overnight. He consulted with the attorneys and he re-instructed the jury this morning that if they believe that Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz believed that they were doing the right thing at Tyco then there is no criminal intent. It's a crucial finding really in favor of the defense.
Now, the issue here really is as the Manhattan district attorney alleges is that Swartz and Kozlowski awarded themselves bonuses and loans and stock awards over several years that amounted to about $600 million.
You have probably heard, perhaps, of the famous party that was thrown for Dennis Kozlowski's wife in Sardinia that Tyco picked up half the tab for that $2 million birthday bash.
There was all sorts of artwork that was purchased, first by Tyco funds but then Kozlowski claims it was really his own money. The Tyco funds were just used temporarily. All of this is at issue, a huge, lavish lifestyle.
We actually caught up with one of the alternate jurors who was dismissed yesterday, a gentleman by the name of Simon Questa (ph) who said that well you can't really send a guy to jail for throwing a big birthday bash for his wife.
But he did say that they did find compelling evidence of the fact that Dennis Kozlowski had failed to declare some $25 million on his taxes in 1999. This was one of the big bonuses that apparently he awarded -- that was awarded to him in the course of his time as CEO there.
So, credibility at issue for Dennis Kozlowski but if they, the jurors, believe that Kozlowski believes that he was doing the right thing then they can't find criminal intent and that could be a big, big plus for the defense -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: Now, Chris, you talk about the 32 counts now against him. You have the tape and there was testimony from something like 47 people. Is the defense hoping for the best and, at the same time, expecting there are probably some convictions in those 32 counts?
HUNTINGTON: Well, reading how the jury is deliberating just by, you know, notes and so forth is very difficult. I have to say though that the defense, particularly in the last -- just this morning, seemed very, very upbeat.
They really felt like the things, the scales if you will were tilting in their direction based, of course, only on what we can define from what the jury is asking for. It could well go the other way.
The larceny charges, there are 13 of them, any single charge, a conviction on any single one of those larceny charges could put Dennis Kozlowski in jail for 25 years, so very, very serious stakes here -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Chris Huntington thanks very much from New York.
Well, if bin Laden's top aide is captured in Pakistan will it severely damage the al Qaeda network or merely deal it a setback? We'll talk about that.
Is it a case of fake hate? A campus gets stirred up after professors claim but police say she made it all up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER FORECAST)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: On this one year anniversary of the war in Iraq, the battle to end terrorism continues on another front today. Pakistani forces near the border with Afghanistan are trying to root out hundreds of suspected al Qaeda fighters.
It's believed they're protecting this man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda's second in command. What would his capture mean for efforts to dismantle the terror network?
CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen joins us live from Washington, good to see you Peter.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, it seems as though Pakistani authorities say while they're not certain al-Zawahiri is surrounded they feel that he is this high value target. Doesn't this spoil the element of surprise if indeed this is the case and this is who they are trying to capture?
BERGEN: Well, it would seem, yes, I mean definitely. You know I think it's still an open question exactly who this high value target is. Clearly, Pakistanis saying to CNN that they believe it is Ayman al-Zawahiri.
But people on the U.S. side saying, you know, basically they don't have any evidence, which doesn't mean that it's not true or it is true. It's just they don't have any evidence. So, still, I think the jury somewhat out on this if indeed...
WHITFIELD: So what would the motivation of the Pakistani military to reveal this if they were looking for any sort of outside help or any internal help? It would seem that they're not going to be able to get that right now having announced it to the world.
BERGEN: Yes, honestly you've got me there. I mean what would be their motivation to announce, you know, that they found this very high value target who they're going after? It's kind of puzzling to me.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
BERGEN: So, I mean a lot of life can be explained not by, you know, by incompetence so that may be part of it.
WHITFIELD: Well, let's talk about the network and let's talk about his number two position. If indeed al-Zawahiri were to be captured, what would it mean for his lieutenants for anyone else who obviously is lined up to take his place in which to make this that much more of a difficult network for Pakistan or even U.S. coalition authorities to infiltrate?
BERGEN: If Ayman al-Zawahiri disappeared?
WHITFIELD: Yes.
BERGEN: I think getting rid of him would be enormously useful either capturing or killing him because this is the guy who, you know, joined a terrorist organization when he was 16. He spent an entire adult life as sort of a professional revolutionary terrorist.
He's very bright. He speaks several languages. He's a surgeon. He's, you know, influenced bin Laden significantly, his mentor, his doctor, his best friend. This is a formidable guy who most analysts, including myself, believe radicalized bin Laden in the late '90s and made him more anti-western, more anti-American, therefore getting him would be very useful.
In fact, I was talking today to somebody, a U.S. counterterrorism official, who said politically getting bin Laden would be great of course but actually tactically getting Ayman al-Zawahiri would be even better because he's the executive vice president of the organization and he does a lot of the thinking and the work.
WHITFIELD: How much can be relied upon in terms of extracting information from al-Zawahiri if captured in order to lead authorities to Osama bin Laden?
BERGEN: If you look at Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was captured last year, he probably was given some kind of interrogation technique that wouldn't be kosher in the United States, as it were, and gave up a certain amount of information about bin Laden's recent whereabouts.
So, I think that Ayman al-Zawahiri, if he's captured which I think is probably unlikely, probably will be in Pakistani hands. They have different forensic techniques in the United States and we've been quite successful, when I say we the coalition against terrorism, in terms of getting these high value targets and the high level al Qaeda people to talk and give actionable intelligence, actionable information.
Why they talk and maybe the persuasion, these persuasion techniques may also be ego. A lot of people want to show how important they are. I think Ayman al-Zawahiri would be a very tough nut to crack, however.
This is a guy who spent years in an Egyptian prison cell. I don't think he's frightened of doing prison time and, of course, he may well want to martyr himself in the struggle.
WHITFIELD: Let's talk about his power. He's being credited with helping to orchestrate the assassination attempts of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf as well as more recently attacks in Saudi Arabia. How responsible do you believe he is in some of the more recent insurgent attacks, even in Iraq?
BERGEN: Well, I think with what you just mentioned Musharraf in Pakistan, General Musharraf survived two very serious assassination attempts in December and I think those are directly, those assassination attempts are directly related to Ayman al-Zawahiri's previous statements calling for attacks on Musharraf.
I mean al Qaeda wants to get rid of Musharraf because they feel like if they can get rid of him that maybe, you know, this whole war of terrorism in Pakistan will somehow be impeded, so a very direct link there.
Where Ayman al-Zawahiri's links to attacks in Iraq I think they're more ideological. Ayman al-Zawahiri has come out with audio tapes like bin Laden calling for a jihad against the occupation of Iraq and people listen to those calls. So it may not even be a command and control situation, more of an ideological situation where he's just putting out these ideas and people are acting on them.
WHITFIELD: And, if captured, do you see any planned attacks picking up or perhaps diminishing?
BERGEN: I think the kinds of attacks that we'd have to worry about, if he was captured or killed, wouldn't happen by which I mean very high, big kind of 9/11 type attacks aren't going to happen just because he gets killed.
If he gets killed or captured it takes too long to plan these out but you are likely to see perhaps small attacks of people who, you know, just are kind of generally sympathetic but not the sort of organized attacks that you really have to be worried about.
WHITFIELD: All right and quickly before I let you go, Peter, the Taliban spokesperson says that they're planning attacks on the U.S. Need the Taliban be an entity to worry about?
BERGEN: I think they kind of continue to be in a low level way. I mean we're fighting a low level insurgency in Afghanistan against the Taliban in the south and the east of the country.
They continue to be a problem. They're organizing along the border. They're operating somewhat openly along the Pakistani border so, yes, of course they remain a problem and they'll remain a problem for the foreseeable future.
WHITFIELD: Peter Bergen from Washington, thanks very much.
BERGEN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: In other news around the world, an apparent assassination attempt in Taiwan on the eve of presidential elections there. The president and vice president Friday were both shot while campaigning.
The red circle shows the bullet hole through the vehicle right there. The leaders suffered non life threatening injuries. Weekend elections will still go on as planned.
The Balkan nation of Kosovo is spiraling out of control amid deadly ethnic clashes. NATO is deploying more peacekeeping troops. France and Germany are sending additional forces this weekend. At least 31 people have been killed in the worst unrest since the war in Kosovo ended in 1999.
A really scary moment at a Dallas zoo as a gorilla escaped and then attacked visitors, including a 3-year-old child. Details on exactly how it all happened later on LIVE FROM.
FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Fred Katayama in New York. A big blow to Coca Cola's effort to tap into the bottled water market in Britain that story and more when LIVE FROM continues after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Pure water or pure hype? One bottled water gets the boot from Britain. Fred Katayama is live from the New York Stock Exchange with more on that -- Fred.
KATAYAMA: Well, hi Fredricka.
Coca Cola is recalling its Dasani brand bottled water from the U.K. market. That's after levels of a toxin were found that exceed legal standards there. The move severely handicaps Coke's efforts to tap into the country's spring water market.
Dasani has already faced harsh criticism in the British press after it was revealed that the drink is actually treated and purified tap water. Coke says a recall is just precautionary and there are no immediate health or safety concerns from drinking Dasani -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And how are stocks holding up or should I say down?
KATAYAMA: Well, down is more like it, Fredricka. There's just not much movement here on Wall Street today. Stocks are searching for direction as investors wait to see how the battle to capture a suspected al Qaeda leader in Pakistan plays out.
Let's check the market numbers. The Dow Industrials are losing 26 points and the NASDAQ is slightly lower. Shares of Adobe Systems are one standout there, up ten percent. That's after the software maker reported higher than expected first quarter earnings and raised its outlook for the second quarter and that is the latest from Wall Street.
Coming up, SUV sales suggest size matters except when it comes to the gas bill. That story later this hour.
LIVE FROM rolls on after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 19, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Those are the most recent blasts in Baghdad. More violence marks the first anniversary of the war in Iraq, while President Bush vows to finish the fight.
And tightening the noose around al Qaeda. If bin Laden's top lieutenant is captured, what will it mean for the global war on terror?
Panic and confusion at a Texas zoo after an escaped gorilla attacks. You'll hear from one of the victims this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At one point or another, and sometimes simultaneously, was severely dysfunctional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God made me live for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Crushed under a ton of dry wall. A boy's amazing survival story.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien are off today.
This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM begins right now.
Enter the Taliban. As Pakistani forces battle al Qaeda fighters and local tribesmen over a presumed high value target, the group that ruled Afghanistan up until late 2001 is vowing to strike back.
This high value target is thought to be al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
We get the latest now from CNN's Nic Robertson from Islamabad. He's on the telephone with us.
And Nic, officials are still uncertain whether indeed they have al-Zawahiri surrounded?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, they believe that they still have him surrounded. What concerns some military officials is the fact that this is a mountainous area, that it's perhaps as large as 12 to 15 square miles, that they have the area surrounded but not the compound per se where they believe that as many as 400 al Qaeda people may be hiding out, including al-Zawahiri.
While they say that they are able to contain and control that area, they cannot say 100 percent that they can keep the area sealed off but at the moment they still believe that they have Ayman al- Zawahiri in that area.
The reason they believe that is because some of the people they have captured have told them so. They also say they picked up intercepts as well indicating that he is there, although they do believe, as I say, that this is a very difficult area for them to maintain 100 watertight seal, if you will, on that area.
Also, the Taliban have made a statement in the last few hours, the Taliban accusing the Pakistani government of deceiving them saying that the Pakistani government has attacked the Taliban in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
And they say, the Taliban says that they will attack Pakistani troops if they are attacked, the Taliban also saying that they will disrupt the government in Afghanistan and that they will attack U.S. forces inside Afghanistan as well that from the Taliban in the last few hours -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And, Nic, of the 7,000 or so Pakistani military personnel that have surrounded this area what measures are being used in which to conduct this operation?
ROBERTSON: Well, Pakistani military officials say that they have been engaged in heavy artillery fire, firing that into the areas where they believe the al Qaeda are holding up.
They've been using Cobra attack helicopters as well and they say there have been firefights throughout the day. They say they've been receiving mortar fire and rocket fire as well as gunfire from the al Qaeda elements and what we have heard from the Pakistani officials today seems to indicate that they haven't gone on an offensive per se to try and take control or get into some of these compounds.
What they seem to be focusing on doing is providing an inner and an outer cordon in a 12 to 15 mile square mountainous area so that nobody escapes that area rather than trying an all out offensive on some of the buildings they believe that al Qaeda might be hiding out in there -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And, Nic, now the U.S. has labeled Pakistan as a non- NATO ally opening the door to allowing Pakistan to get a number of American artillery. When might Pakistan be taken advantage of that new offer?
ROBERTSON: Well, as far as Pakistani military officials are concerned, they would like to take advantage of that type of offer as soon as possible. This is a very important message for President Musharraf politically inside Pakistan.
He needs to show the Pakistani population that in his relationship with the United States he is not a puppet, as some here would accuse him of as being of the United States but that the gets something and the military helps but Pakistan's army has been something that the Pakistani people.
And the Pakistani military have long wanted to put on a better footing to get such things as aircraft and attack helicopters, so this is something that will play very well domestically for President Musharraf and, in the long run, whenever that equipment should arrive, will help the Pakistani military in their efforts to curb al Qaeda and curb whatever elements are operating within their borders -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Nic Robertson on the phone with us from Islamabad, thank you very much.
Well experts inside and outside the U.S. government point out no single arrest or battle will win the war on terror but they don't call al-Zawahiri the brains of al Qaeda for nothing.
Our coverage continues with CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Counterterrorism officials say it's just as crucial to get their hands on Ayman al-Zawahiri as Osama bin Laden.
MATT LEVITT, FORMER FBI ANALYST: Al-Zawahiri is bound to have vast personal knowledge about things that are going on now, where operatives are. He's bound to have cell phones, computers, documents, all the kinds of materials that we are eager to exploit.
ARENA: Officials say it's probably true that Zawahiri spent most of his energy just staying alive but say he may have real time information regarding al Qaeda plots. Intelligence officials also believe it is his voice on recent and threatening al Qaeda audio tapes.
Officials say Zawahiri's capture could also offer clues to Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. They believe bin Laden and Zawahiri have maintained close contact and communicate regularly.
If Zawahiri is turned over to U.S. custody, as expected, officials say he will meet with the same fate as other captured al Qaeda leaders, such as Ramzi Binalsheibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. He'll be whisked away to an undisclosed location, held as an enemy combatant and interrogated as quickly as possible.
KEN PIERNICK, FORMER FBI OFFICIAL: You're disoriented and you become unhinged. You have a sense of abandonment and in that time you are uniquely vulnerable and may be willing to say things that you might not after you've had a space of time to recover.
ARENA (on camera): What Zawahiri's capture will not do is put al Qaeda out of business. Experts have repeatedly said the terror movement is much bigger than any one man or organization. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And in just a few minutes, we'll look deeper into al Qaeda minus al-Zawahiri long before that question or that equation is actually proven with CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen. That's at quarter past this hour of LIVE FROM.
Well, it was a year ago today that President Bush ordered the start of the war that toppled Saddam Hussein and one year later the sounds of war continue to echo in Baghdad.
After dark today, explosions were heard around the main American compound, the Green Zone, and U.S. officials said mortars or rockets may have been fired at the complex but they caused no damage or casualties. Today's anniversary was marked by Mr. Bush with a speech about the war on terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no neutral ground, no neutral ground in a fight between civilization and terror because there's no neutral ground between good and evil, freedom and slavery, and life and death. The war on terror is not a figure of speech. It is an inescapable calling of our (unintelligible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell landed today in Baghdad to mark the war's anniversary and he acknowledged it coincided with a spike in attacks by the resistance.
At a news conference later a number of Arab journalists staged a walk out to protest the killings of an Arab correspondent and his cameraman. Powell pledged to investigate the deaths, which apparently occurred when U.S. troops shot at a car that ran a checkpoint and ended up hitting the journalists.
In this country, a number of antiwar protests are planned throughout the weekend in conjunction with the war's anniversary. About 200 people marched this morning at an antiwar rally in San Francisco.
In other news across America, public schools in the District of Columbia are on lock down after an e-mailed bomb threat. A security sweep of all 165 public schools in the District of Columbia found no bombs. Classes are now back to normal. A D.C. official says schools were being especially cautious due to the war in Iraq anniversary.
In two suburban Washington schools water woes for kids, health officials found elevated lead levels in water during testing. They say it's limited to specific sinks or water fountains and not the entire water system throughout the schools in D.C. The suspect in those Ohio highway shootings could return to the state as early as today. Charles McCoy, Jr. waived extradition during a court hearing in Las Vegas.
It is day two of deliberations in the Tyco trial. Two former executives who lived affluent lifestyles are accused of bilking the company out of millions of dollars. The judge in the case is already answering a legal question from the jurors.
CNNFN's Chris Huntington is live from New York with the latest on their deliberations.
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, well good afternoon. The issue here really at the heart of the case is criminal intent and the jurors after only deliberating for a few hours yesterday sent a note out to Judge Michael Obus asking him to redefine exactly what criminal intent means, what state of mind is relevant for them to find a guilty charge particularly on the charges of grand larceny, which are the most serious charges at play here.
The judge worked on it overnight. He consulted with the attorneys and he re-instructed the jury this morning that if they believe that Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz believed that they were doing the right thing at Tyco then there is no criminal intent. It's a crucial finding really in favor of the defense.
Now, the issue here really is as the Manhattan district attorney alleges is that Swartz and Kozlowski awarded themselves bonuses and loans and stock awards over several years that amounted to about $600 million.
You have probably heard, perhaps, of the famous party that was thrown for Dennis Kozlowski's wife in Sardinia that Tyco picked up half the tab for that $2 million birthday bash.
There was all sorts of artwork that was purchased, first by Tyco funds but then Kozlowski claims it was really his own money. The Tyco funds were just used temporarily. All of this is at issue, a huge, lavish lifestyle.
We actually caught up with one of the alternate jurors who was dismissed yesterday, a gentleman by the name of Simon Questa (ph) who said that well you can't really send a guy to jail for throwing a big birthday bash for his wife.
But he did say that they did find compelling evidence of the fact that Dennis Kozlowski had failed to declare some $25 million on his taxes in 1999. This was one of the big bonuses that apparently he awarded -- that was awarded to him in the course of his time as CEO there.
So, credibility at issue for Dennis Kozlowski but if they, the jurors, believe that Kozlowski believes that he was doing the right thing then they can't find criminal intent and that could be a big, big plus for the defense -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: Now, Chris, you talk about the 32 counts now against him. You have the tape and there was testimony from something like 47 people. Is the defense hoping for the best and, at the same time, expecting there are probably some convictions in those 32 counts?
HUNTINGTON: Well, reading how the jury is deliberating just by, you know, notes and so forth is very difficult. I have to say though that the defense, particularly in the last -- just this morning, seemed very, very upbeat.
They really felt like the things, the scales if you will were tilting in their direction based, of course, only on what we can define from what the jury is asking for. It could well go the other way.
The larceny charges, there are 13 of them, any single charge, a conviction on any single one of those larceny charges could put Dennis Kozlowski in jail for 25 years, so very, very serious stakes here -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Chris Huntington thanks very much from New York.
Well, if bin Laden's top aide is captured in Pakistan will it severely damage the al Qaeda network or merely deal it a setback? We'll talk about that.
Is it a case of fake hate? A campus gets stirred up after professors claim but police say she made it all up.
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WHITFIELD: On this one year anniversary of the war in Iraq, the battle to end terrorism continues on another front today. Pakistani forces near the border with Afghanistan are trying to root out hundreds of suspected al Qaeda fighters.
It's believed they're protecting this man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda's second in command. What would his capture mean for efforts to dismantle the terror network?
CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen joins us live from Washington, good to see you Peter.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, it seems as though Pakistani authorities say while they're not certain al-Zawahiri is surrounded they feel that he is this high value target. Doesn't this spoil the element of surprise if indeed this is the case and this is who they are trying to capture?
BERGEN: Well, it would seem, yes, I mean definitely. You know I think it's still an open question exactly who this high value target is. Clearly, Pakistanis saying to CNN that they believe it is Ayman al-Zawahiri.
But people on the U.S. side saying, you know, basically they don't have any evidence, which doesn't mean that it's not true or it is true. It's just they don't have any evidence. So, still, I think the jury somewhat out on this if indeed...
WHITFIELD: So what would the motivation of the Pakistani military to reveal this if they were looking for any sort of outside help or any internal help? It would seem that they're not going to be able to get that right now having announced it to the world.
BERGEN: Yes, honestly you've got me there. I mean what would be their motivation to announce, you know, that they found this very high value target who they're going after? It's kind of puzzling to me.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
BERGEN: So, I mean a lot of life can be explained not by, you know, by incompetence so that may be part of it.
WHITFIELD: Well, let's talk about the network and let's talk about his number two position. If indeed al-Zawahiri were to be captured, what would it mean for his lieutenants for anyone else who obviously is lined up to take his place in which to make this that much more of a difficult network for Pakistan or even U.S. coalition authorities to infiltrate?
BERGEN: If Ayman al-Zawahiri disappeared?
WHITFIELD: Yes.
BERGEN: I think getting rid of him would be enormously useful either capturing or killing him because this is the guy who, you know, joined a terrorist organization when he was 16. He spent an entire adult life as sort of a professional revolutionary terrorist.
He's very bright. He speaks several languages. He's a surgeon. He's, you know, influenced bin Laden significantly, his mentor, his doctor, his best friend. This is a formidable guy who most analysts, including myself, believe radicalized bin Laden in the late '90s and made him more anti-western, more anti-American, therefore getting him would be very useful.
In fact, I was talking today to somebody, a U.S. counterterrorism official, who said politically getting bin Laden would be great of course but actually tactically getting Ayman al-Zawahiri would be even better because he's the executive vice president of the organization and he does a lot of the thinking and the work.
WHITFIELD: How much can be relied upon in terms of extracting information from al-Zawahiri if captured in order to lead authorities to Osama bin Laden?
BERGEN: If you look at Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was captured last year, he probably was given some kind of interrogation technique that wouldn't be kosher in the United States, as it were, and gave up a certain amount of information about bin Laden's recent whereabouts.
So, I think that Ayman al-Zawahiri, if he's captured which I think is probably unlikely, probably will be in Pakistani hands. They have different forensic techniques in the United States and we've been quite successful, when I say we the coalition against terrorism, in terms of getting these high value targets and the high level al Qaeda people to talk and give actionable intelligence, actionable information.
Why they talk and maybe the persuasion, these persuasion techniques may also be ego. A lot of people want to show how important they are. I think Ayman al-Zawahiri would be a very tough nut to crack, however.
This is a guy who spent years in an Egyptian prison cell. I don't think he's frightened of doing prison time and, of course, he may well want to martyr himself in the struggle.
WHITFIELD: Let's talk about his power. He's being credited with helping to orchestrate the assassination attempts of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf as well as more recently attacks in Saudi Arabia. How responsible do you believe he is in some of the more recent insurgent attacks, even in Iraq?
BERGEN: Well, I think with what you just mentioned Musharraf in Pakistan, General Musharraf survived two very serious assassination attempts in December and I think those are directly, those assassination attempts are directly related to Ayman al-Zawahiri's previous statements calling for attacks on Musharraf.
I mean al Qaeda wants to get rid of Musharraf because they feel like if they can get rid of him that maybe, you know, this whole war of terrorism in Pakistan will somehow be impeded, so a very direct link there.
Where Ayman al-Zawahiri's links to attacks in Iraq I think they're more ideological. Ayman al-Zawahiri has come out with audio tapes like bin Laden calling for a jihad against the occupation of Iraq and people listen to those calls. So it may not even be a command and control situation, more of an ideological situation where he's just putting out these ideas and people are acting on them.
WHITFIELD: And, if captured, do you see any planned attacks picking up or perhaps diminishing?
BERGEN: I think the kinds of attacks that we'd have to worry about, if he was captured or killed, wouldn't happen by which I mean very high, big kind of 9/11 type attacks aren't going to happen just because he gets killed.
If he gets killed or captured it takes too long to plan these out but you are likely to see perhaps small attacks of people who, you know, just are kind of generally sympathetic but not the sort of organized attacks that you really have to be worried about.
WHITFIELD: All right and quickly before I let you go, Peter, the Taliban spokesperson says that they're planning attacks on the U.S. Need the Taliban be an entity to worry about?
BERGEN: I think they kind of continue to be in a low level way. I mean we're fighting a low level insurgency in Afghanistan against the Taliban in the south and the east of the country.
They continue to be a problem. They're organizing along the border. They're operating somewhat openly along the Pakistani border so, yes, of course they remain a problem and they'll remain a problem for the foreseeable future.
WHITFIELD: Peter Bergen from Washington, thanks very much.
BERGEN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: In other news around the world, an apparent assassination attempt in Taiwan on the eve of presidential elections there. The president and vice president Friday were both shot while campaigning.
The red circle shows the bullet hole through the vehicle right there. The leaders suffered non life threatening injuries. Weekend elections will still go on as planned.
The Balkan nation of Kosovo is spiraling out of control amid deadly ethnic clashes. NATO is deploying more peacekeeping troops. France and Germany are sending additional forces this weekend. At least 31 people have been killed in the worst unrest since the war in Kosovo ended in 1999.
A really scary moment at a Dallas zoo as a gorilla escaped and then attacked visitors, including a 3-year-old child. Details on exactly how it all happened later on LIVE FROM.
FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Fred Katayama in New York. A big blow to Coca Cola's effort to tap into the bottled water market in Britain that story and more when LIVE FROM continues after this break.
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WHITFIELD: Pure water or pure hype? One bottled water gets the boot from Britain. Fred Katayama is live from the New York Stock Exchange with more on that -- Fred.
KATAYAMA: Well, hi Fredricka.
Coca Cola is recalling its Dasani brand bottled water from the U.K. market. That's after levels of a toxin were found that exceed legal standards there. The move severely handicaps Coke's efforts to tap into the country's spring water market.
Dasani has already faced harsh criticism in the British press after it was revealed that the drink is actually treated and purified tap water. Coke says a recall is just precautionary and there are no immediate health or safety concerns from drinking Dasani -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And how are stocks holding up or should I say down?
KATAYAMA: Well, down is more like it, Fredricka. There's just not much movement here on Wall Street today. Stocks are searching for direction as investors wait to see how the battle to capture a suspected al Qaeda leader in Pakistan plays out.
Let's check the market numbers. The Dow Industrials are losing 26 points and the NASDAQ is slightly lower. Shares of Adobe Systems are one standout there, up ten percent. That's after the software maker reported higher than expected first quarter earnings and raised its outlook for the second quarter and that is the latest from Wall Street.
Coming up, SUV sales suggest size matters except when it comes to the gas bill. That story later this hour.
LIVE FROM rolls on after this break.
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