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Daughter of 9/11 Victim Pins Hopes on Hearings; NASA Makes More Discoveries on Mars
Aired March 23, 2004 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: The government's annual report on Social Security and Medicare says both programs are threatened financially, especially Medicare.
The report says Medicare could go broke by the year 2019 without some changes. The Social Security system is expected to remain solvent for nearly 40 years.
KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Well, could 9/11 have been prevented, and were there signs for years that al Qaeda was planning an attack on the United States?
A federal panel is now addressing those very questions. We're bringing you live coverage of the 9/11 commission hearings right here on CNN.
One person watching them very closely is Carie LeMack. Her mother, Judy Larocque, was killed aboard American Airlines Flight 11 as it crashed into the World Trade Center.
Carrie has been an advocate for 9/11 family members ever since. She joins us live from Washington today.
Hi, Carrie. Great to see you.
CARIE LEMACK, FAMILES OF SEPTEMBER 11: Good to see you, too, thank you.
PHILLIPS: First of all, just for viewers that never had a chance to meet your mother or know about your mother, take us back and tell us about Judy.
LEMACK: My mom was very active, very energetic woman. She was the CEO of a market research group. She was an avoid Beatles fan and a huge fan of her do, Naboo (ph).
PHILLIPS: Well, we have a number of pictures of her through the years, even back, Carie, when you were a baby.
LEMACK: Oh, my.
PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. No, they're wonderful. Tell us about this web site that you established in her memory.
LEMACK: Well, because the families want to make sure that everyone remembered what happened on September 11 and want to make sure that people are -- want to find out how he can ensure it doesn't happen again, we started a web site with pictures of my mom so her friends and family can see her.
PHILLIPS: Well, as this investigation gets under way, this 9/11 commission, Carie, what is it you specifically want to hear? What is it you want to get out of -- get out of these hearings, personally?
LEMAK: I think, first and foremost, everyone will agree that the most important thing is that safety for the American people is not a partisan issue.
We've seen a lot of back and forth this week about whether or not condemning what was known beforehand or what could have happened beforehand is partisan.
We, the families, want to make sure no one else goes through the suffering that we've been through and that all Americans are safe. So we're very concerned that both Democrats and Republicans alike, as well as independents or people of any party, are going to testify in front of the commission, if they have information that will be helpful.
We're very happy to see Secretary Albright and Secretary Powell speak. And we're hoping that tomorrow, also, we'll get some great information from Clarke, as well as other people who are going to speak, CIA Director Tenet.
We're concerned, though, that Dr. Rice, right now, is refusing to speak publicly at the hearing. And we ask that everybody come out and if they have information that can help us make sure that it doesn't happen again.
PHILLIPS: Carie, what are the unanswered questions for you?
LEMACK: Well, I think in the very beginning, we were told by this administration that they didn't have knowledge that September 11 could happen. If they had had the knowledge, they would have stopped it, obviously.
But recently, in the past few days, with Clarke's book coming out, we've been told actually they did know a lot more about al Qaeda than they had said before. So we're getting some conflicting information.
We want to know what really was known ahead of time, what was done ahead of time and what can they do better next time to ensure that 3,000 people aren't murdered.
PHILLIPS: Do you believe that the truth will come out?
LEMACK: I hope so. I'm very hopefully. But I think that having these public hearings is very important. Otherwise the American public won't know.
PHILLIPS: Do you think -- what about the hunt for Osama bin Laden? There's so many things happening right now at the same time: this 9/11 probe, also, beefed up efforts to find Osama bin Laden. A lot of attention on Iraq.
Do you still think there is enough focus on what happened initially on that day, on September 11?
LEMACK: Well, we're very hopeful that we can find anyone who caused my mother and 3,000 other people's murders. Obviously, we want to make sure that focus is still there, even two and a half years later. Because until we can find those people, every American is not yet safe. So we're very hopeful that they do find him.
But obviously, we also want to make sure that we're learning from lessons. And we're not going to get those lessons unless we find out what we knew and what we did ahead of time, so that we can learn from them.
PHILLIPS: Carie LeMack, we're going to ask you to stand by with us. We're going to go back to the 9/11 hearings now. As you listen, so will we, as the independent commission probing the al Qaeda attack on 9/11 continues.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
PHILLIPS: Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 commission, giving testimony now, speaking specifically about the lack of actionable intelligence on where Osama bin Laden would be and how long he would be there, sort of tracking Osama bin Laden through the years, presenting this to the commission as it continues to investigate the al Qaeda attacks on 9/11, intelligence with regard to that. How much did the U.S. know prior to 9/11?
Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, Kyra, things are still going very swimmingly for NASA's twin Martian rovers. Specifically, Opportunity. NASA poised to make a big announcement, scientific announcement about some discoveries made by that Opportunity rover at its landing site in a crater near the equator of Mars.
Joining us on the line is the chief Mars scientist for NASA, Jim Garvin. He's just about to make that announcement.
Dr. Garvin, good to have you with us.
JIM GARVIN, NASA SCIENTIST: Hey, Miles. Good to be with you.
O'BRIEN: All right. So it turns out that it wasn't just wet there in the past; it was actually very wet. And maybe, maybe Opportunity was on the shores of a salty sea. Is that possible?
GARVIN: Well, that's one of the things we're looking at, Miles. As you know, where there's water and good chemistry, there could be something else. And this finding today we're announcing is perhaps one of the most catalytic steps toward where we need to go to understand the record of life on Mars.
O'BRIEN: All right. So if in fact there was a salty sea on Mars, as this science -- it is -- evidence from Opportunity seems to indicate, where are the fossils?
GARVIN: Well, Miles, we're looking. But what we do know is these kinds of rocks we think we've found on Mars are one of the best places to preserve all the right stuff, the biochemistry that leads to fossils and all that.
O'BRIEN: All right. Now, as we -- as you're talking, we're looking at a pan of that crater, and it shows those rock outcrops, which are significant here. And those have been just absolute scientific pay dirt for you.
Let's look at a close-up here, straight off the computer, Scott. And we can just give a sense of what has got scientists so intrigued.
This rock outcropping or bedrock here has offered up all kinds of information. Want to take you to some real close-ups here which show this so-called cross bedding. What does that mean, Dr. Garvin?
GARVIN: Well, what you're going to hear today is that when you see these kinds of features in rocks, these little ripple things -- you'd never have thought they were this important -- they're the telltale of what the rocks can tell us about whether water processed them or even made them.
O'BRIEN: Now, what about these things we're calling blueberries? What is that telling you, as well?
GARVIN: We learned and reported last week, Miles, that the blueberries, which we call gray berries, because they're really gray, actually contain this mineral hematite, and that's a mineral that's often made in the presence of water.
O'BRIEN: All right. So this raises a big question. You've got a future mission on the books to actually go get some samples of rocks, bring them back to Earth. Does this give you a good possible location to do just that?
GARVIN: Miles, absolutely. We've been looking for the compass point, the direction, to know what kind of things we need to bring back and what they're really like. And we found some awfully good stuff to bring back to our Earth labs to figure out the real Mars.
O'BRIEN: All right. So finally, are we a step closer then to determining that big question about life on Mars, past or present?
GARVIN: Well, Miles, let's put it this way. We found the right kind of rocks to look in. Whether they're going to be forthcoming, as all clues in science are, we can't tell.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Jim Garvin is the lead Mars scientist for NASA. He's about to give a briefing there in Washington. We'll be watching that while we are also watching those hearings and sharing them with you.
More on those hearings from Washington in just a little bit. We're going to take a break. We'll be back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: At no time during the early months of our administration were we presented with a vetted, viable operational proposal which would have led to an opportunity to kill, capture, or otherwise neutralize Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Were the warning signs missed prior to 9/11? A commission is investigating those attacks.
O'BRIEN: A big discovery on the red planet. This scene right here, hard to believe, it was the shore of a salty sea once. Where are the fossils?
PHILLIPS: And political clash: strong emotions, in the tangle over Taiwan's presidential election.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips.
O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM begins right now.
PHILLIPS: Terror on Earth, oceans on Mars. We're awaiting news this hour of cosmic proportions as the 9/11 terror commission deconstructs the past.
O'BRIEN: And NASA scientists peer in the very dawn of time, maybe late morning of time, for discoveries that are sure to float your boat.
PHILLIPS: Well, we begin with some broadsides and some hardened defenses in the independent probe of U.S. terror-fighting efforts pre- 9/11.
CNN's Barbara Starr following events from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you, Kyra. As you say a lot of finger-pointing, a lot of politics this morning as the first two witnesses to testify, the former secretary of state, Madeleine Albright and the current secretary of state, Colin Powell, talked about their experiences both with diplomacy and military action in trying to deal with the al Qaeda.
Now this afternoon, we will hear from the former defense secretary, William Cohen, and of course the current defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.
A lot of information coming out this afternoon about some previous attempts, some previous sightings of Osama bin Laden that the U.S. thought it had, U.S. intelligence thought they had him in the crosshairs.
But the CIA then making a decision not to move against him, deciding at least on three separate occasions that they really did not have solid enough information to launch a strike to be certain to kill the al Qaeda leader.
This getting to the heart of what both Albright and Powell have been talking about, that they had a commitment to military action, that they had a commitment to counter terrorism but that bin Laden was a very tough customer. He was always on the move, very tough to get that accurate, timely information to go after him -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara, you mentioned Cohen and Rumsfeld about to testifiy before the commission. What are they likely to focus on?
STARR: Well they're going to get a lot of questions about what they knew, when they knew it, alot of questions of course about Richard Clarke's book. Were they too focused on Iraq when we -- especially during the BUsh administration?
Secretay Cohen likely to get a lot of questions about these previous potential sightings of bin Laden. And why the U.S. didn't go after him.
By all accounts, what we are learning is again on three seperate occasions, at least they felt the knew where bin Laden was, but it was tough to go after him. Either too much collateral damge, the possiblity of killing too many civilans or the not being quite sure enough about the intelligence.
What we're also learning is Pentagon officials during the Clinton administration felling that they were getting some criticism from the diplomats. That they felt some pressure to come up with miltary options to go after bin Laden.
But again, always very tough to do because tough to get really viable, current information at that time about where he was, where he might be when you could finally get planes and missiles on those targets -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: And, Barbara, live picture right next to both of us here as we're watchin on the screen. Philip Zelikow, executive director of the commission, laying out a lot of details. Obviously, I haven't been able to listen for the past five minutes or so.
But he was talking about just tracking Osama bin Laden, knowing his whereabouts, knowing what he was up to. Talking about possible positions where military -- the military could make strikes. What's he trying to get across here? What's his objective as he testifies here right now?
STARR: Well, what the commission is doing, of course, is reconstructing history, if you will. Going back, looking at all the details, looking at what everybody had to say at the time getting the various points of view. If you thought you had bin Laden three times, why didn't you go after him?
And what Zelikow is very carefully doing is going through what each of the key individuals has told the commission, what they remember, what their point of view was at the time.
And you know, it's like a big traffic accident. You interview all the witnesses, everybody has got a different memory of exactly what happened.
But by all accounts, it was CIA Director George Tenet who made some of the really final policy recommendations that although they thought they knew where he was on these various occasions, the intelligence just wasn't solid enough.
Zelikow also saying that from field operatives on the ground, there was disappointment expressed. Disappointment that they felt they knew where bin Laden was, that they thought they could take care of it. But that in Washington decisions were made not to do it.
It becomes a real demonstration, if you will, of the differences in that old cliche that where you stand is where you sit. Field objectives on the ground in the region having one point of view, seeing their picture where they were.
But senior policy makers back in Washington during the Clinton administration deciding against any action against bin Laden. Except, of course, for that one time in August of 1998 following those August '98 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa. The U.S. did launch a Tomahawk missile attack, at that time saying it was not particularly against bin Laden in Afghanistan, that it was against tist infrastructure.
But we're going to learn more about all of that from Secretary Cohen. We can see that he is about to sit down and begin to testify.
PHILLIPS: All right. We will dip in there, Barbara Starr live from the Pentagon. As soon as that happens -- acty, I'm told we're going to listen in right now. Perfect timing. Thanks, Barbara.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 23, 2004 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: The government's annual report on Social Security and Medicare says both programs are threatened financially, especially Medicare.
The report says Medicare could go broke by the year 2019 without some changes. The Social Security system is expected to remain solvent for nearly 40 years.
KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Well, could 9/11 have been prevented, and were there signs for years that al Qaeda was planning an attack on the United States?
A federal panel is now addressing those very questions. We're bringing you live coverage of the 9/11 commission hearings right here on CNN.
One person watching them very closely is Carie LeMack. Her mother, Judy Larocque, was killed aboard American Airlines Flight 11 as it crashed into the World Trade Center.
Carrie has been an advocate for 9/11 family members ever since. She joins us live from Washington today.
Hi, Carrie. Great to see you.
CARIE LEMACK, FAMILES OF SEPTEMBER 11: Good to see you, too, thank you.
PHILLIPS: First of all, just for viewers that never had a chance to meet your mother or know about your mother, take us back and tell us about Judy.
LEMACK: My mom was very active, very energetic woman. She was the CEO of a market research group. She was an avoid Beatles fan and a huge fan of her do, Naboo (ph).
PHILLIPS: Well, we have a number of pictures of her through the years, even back, Carie, when you were a baby.
LEMACK: Oh, my.
PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. No, they're wonderful. Tell us about this web site that you established in her memory.
LEMACK: Well, because the families want to make sure that everyone remembered what happened on September 11 and want to make sure that people are -- want to find out how he can ensure it doesn't happen again, we started a web site with pictures of my mom so her friends and family can see her.
PHILLIPS: Well, as this investigation gets under way, this 9/11 commission, Carie, what is it you specifically want to hear? What is it you want to get out of -- get out of these hearings, personally?
LEMAK: I think, first and foremost, everyone will agree that the most important thing is that safety for the American people is not a partisan issue.
We've seen a lot of back and forth this week about whether or not condemning what was known beforehand or what could have happened beforehand is partisan.
We, the families, want to make sure no one else goes through the suffering that we've been through and that all Americans are safe. So we're very concerned that both Democrats and Republicans alike, as well as independents or people of any party, are going to testify in front of the commission, if they have information that will be helpful.
We're very happy to see Secretary Albright and Secretary Powell speak. And we're hoping that tomorrow, also, we'll get some great information from Clarke, as well as other people who are going to speak, CIA Director Tenet.
We're concerned, though, that Dr. Rice, right now, is refusing to speak publicly at the hearing. And we ask that everybody come out and if they have information that can help us make sure that it doesn't happen again.
PHILLIPS: Carie, what are the unanswered questions for you?
LEMACK: Well, I think in the very beginning, we were told by this administration that they didn't have knowledge that September 11 could happen. If they had had the knowledge, they would have stopped it, obviously.
But recently, in the past few days, with Clarke's book coming out, we've been told actually they did know a lot more about al Qaeda than they had said before. So we're getting some conflicting information.
We want to know what really was known ahead of time, what was done ahead of time and what can they do better next time to ensure that 3,000 people aren't murdered.
PHILLIPS: Do you believe that the truth will come out?
LEMACK: I hope so. I'm very hopefully. But I think that having these public hearings is very important. Otherwise the American public won't know.
PHILLIPS: Do you think -- what about the hunt for Osama bin Laden? There's so many things happening right now at the same time: this 9/11 probe, also, beefed up efforts to find Osama bin Laden. A lot of attention on Iraq.
Do you still think there is enough focus on what happened initially on that day, on September 11?
LEMACK: Well, we're very hopeful that we can find anyone who caused my mother and 3,000 other people's murders. Obviously, we want to make sure that focus is still there, even two and a half years later. Because until we can find those people, every American is not yet safe. So we're very hopeful that they do find him.
But obviously, we also want to make sure that we're learning from lessons. And we're not going to get those lessons unless we find out what we knew and what we did ahead of time, so that we can learn from them.
PHILLIPS: Carie LeMack, we're going to ask you to stand by with us. We're going to go back to the 9/11 hearings now. As you listen, so will we, as the independent commission probing the al Qaeda attack on 9/11 continues.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
PHILLIPS: Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 commission, giving testimony now, speaking specifically about the lack of actionable intelligence on where Osama bin Laden would be and how long he would be there, sort of tracking Osama bin Laden through the years, presenting this to the commission as it continues to investigate the al Qaeda attacks on 9/11, intelligence with regard to that. How much did the U.S. know prior to 9/11?
Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, Kyra, things are still going very swimmingly for NASA's twin Martian rovers. Specifically, Opportunity. NASA poised to make a big announcement, scientific announcement about some discoveries made by that Opportunity rover at its landing site in a crater near the equator of Mars.
Joining us on the line is the chief Mars scientist for NASA, Jim Garvin. He's just about to make that announcement.
Dr. Garvin, good to have you with us.
JIM GARVIN, NASA SCIENTIST: Hey, Miles. Good to be with you.
O'BRIEN: All right. So it turns out that it wasn't just wet there in the past; it was actually very wet. And maybe, maybe Opportunity was on the shores of a salty sea. Is that possible?
GARVIN: Well, that's one of the things we're looking at, Miles. As you know, where there's water and good chemistry, there could be something else. And this finding today we're announcing is perhaps one of the most catalytic steps toward where we need to go to understand the record of life on Mars.
O'BRIEN: All right. So if in fact there was a salty sea on Mars, as this science -- it is -- evidence from Opportunity seems to indicate, where are the fossils?
GARVIN: Well, Miles, we're looking. But what we do know is these kinds of rocks we think we've found on Mars are one of the best places to preserve all the right stuff, the biochemistry that leads to fossils and all that.
O'BRIEN: All right. Now, as we -- as you're talking, we're looking at a pan of that crater, and it shows those rock outcrops, which are significant here. And those have been just absolute scientific pay dirt for you.
Let's look at a close-up here, straight off the computer, Scott. And we can just give a sense of what has got scientists so intrigued.
This rock outcropping or bedrock here has offered up all kinds of information. Want to take you to some real close-ups here which show this so-called cross bedding. What does that mean, Dr. Garvin?
GARVIN: Well, what you're going to hear today is that when you see these kinds of features in rocks, these little ripple things -- you'd never have thought they were this important -- they're the telltale of what the rocks can tell us about whether water processed them or even made them.
O'BRIEN: Now, what about these things we're calling blueberries? What is that telling you, as well?
GARVIN: We learned and reported last week, Miles, that the blueberries, which we call gray berries, because they're really gray, actually contain this mineral hematite, and that's a mineral that's often made in the presence of water.
O'BRIEN: All right. So this raises a big question. You've got a future mission on the books to actually go get some samples of rocks, bring them back to Earth. Does this give you a good possible location to do just that?
GARVIN: Miles, absolutely. We've been looking for the compass point, the direction, to know what kind of things we need to bring back and what they're really like. And we found some awfully good stuff to bring back to our Earth labs to figure out the real Mars.
O'BRIEN: All right. So finally, are we a step closer then to determining that big question about life on Mars, past or present?
GARVIN: Well, Miles, let's put it this way. We found the right kind of rocks to look in. Whether they're going to be forthcoming, as all clues in science are, we can't tell.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Jim Garvin is the lead Mars scientist for NASA. He's about to give a briefing there in Washington. We'll be watching that while we are also watching those hearings and sharing them with you.
More on those hearings from Washington in just a little bit. We're going to take a break. We'll be back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: At no time during the early months of our administration were we presented with a vetted, viable operational proposal which would have led to an opportunity to kill, capture, or otherwise neutralize Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Were the warning signs missed prior to 9/11? A commission is investigating those attacks.
O'BRIEN: A big discovery on the red planet. This scene right here, hard to believe, it was the shore of a salty sea once. Where are the fossils?
PHILLIPS: And political clash: strong emotions, in the tangle over Taiwan's presidential election.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips.
O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM begins right now.
PHILLIPS: Terror on Earth, oceans on Mars. We're awaiting news this hour of cosmic proportions as the 9/11 terror commission deconstructs the past.
O'BRIEN: And NASA scientists peer in the very dawn of time, maybe late morning of time, for discoveries that are sure to float your boat.
PHILLIPS: Well, we begin with some broadsides and some hardened defenses in the independent probe of U.S. terror-fighting efforts pre- 9/11.
CNN's Barbara Starr following events from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you, Kyra. As you say a lot of finger-pointing, a lot of politics this morning as the first two witnesses to testify, the former secretary of state, Madeleine Albright and the current secretary of state, Colin Powell, talked about their experiences both with diplomacy and military action in trying to deal with the al Qaeda.
Now this afternoon, we will hear from the former defense secretary, William Cohen, and of course the current defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.
A lot of information coming out this afternoon about some previous attempts, some previous sightings of Osama bin Laden that the U.S. thought it had, U.S. intelligence thought they had him in the crosshairs.
But the CIA then making a decision not to move against him, deciding at least on three separate occasions that they really did not have solid enough information to launch a strike to be certain to kill the al Qaeda leader.
This getting to the heart of what both Albright and Powell have been talking about, that they had a commitment to military action, that they had a commitment to counter terrorism but that bin Laden was a very tough customer. He was always on the move, very tough to get that accurate, timely information to go after him -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara, you mentioned Cohen and Rumsfeld about to testifiy before the commission. What are they likely to focus on?
STARR: Well they're going to get a lot of questions about what they knew, when they knew it, alot of questions of course about Richard Clarke's book. Were they too focused on Iraq when we -- especially during the BUsh administration?
Secretay Cohen likely to get a lot of questions about these previous potential sightings of bin Laden. And why the U.S. didn't go after him.
By all accounts, what we are learning is again on three seperate occasions, at least they felt the knew where bin Laden was, but it was tough to go after him. Either too much collateral damge, the possiblity of killing too many civilans or the not being quite sure enough about the intelligence.
What we're also learning is Pentagon officials during the Clinton administration felling that they were getting some criticism from the diplomats. That they felt some pressure to come up with miltary options to go after bin Laden.
But again, always very tough to do because tough to get really viable, current information at that time about where he was, where he might be when you could finally get planes and missiles on those targets -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: And, Barbara, live picture right next to both of us here as we're watchin on the screen. Philip Zelikow, executive director of the commission, laying out a lot of details. Obviously, I haven't been able to listen for the past five minutes or so.
But he was talking about just tracking Osama bin Laden, knowing his whereabouts, knowing what he was up to. Talking about possible positions where military -- the military could make strikes. What's he trying to get across here? What's his objective as he testifies here right now?
STARR: Well, what the commission is doing, of course, is reconstructing history, if you will. Going back, looking at all the details, looking at what everybody had to say at the time getting the various points of view. If you thought you had bin Laden three times, why didn't you go after him?
And what Zelikow is very carefully doing is going through what each of the key individuals has told the commission, what they remember, what their point of view was at the time.
And you know, it's like a big traffic accident. You interview all the witnesses, everybody has got a different memory of exactly what happened.
But by all accounts, it was CIA Director George Tenet who made some of the really final policy recommendations that although they thought they knew where he was on these various occasions, the intelligence just wasn't solid enough.
Zelikow also saying that from field operatives on the ground, there was disappointment expressed. Disappointment that they felt they knew where bin Laden was, that they thought they could take care of it. But that in Washington decisions were made not to do it.
It becomes a real demonstration, if you will, of the differences in that old cliche that where you stand is where you sit. Field objectives on the ground in the region having one point of view, seeing their picture where they were.
But senior policy makers back in Washington during the Clinton administration deciding against any action against bin Laden. Except, of course, for that one time in August of 1998 following those August '98 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa. The U.S. did launch a Tomahawk missile attack, at that time saying it was not particularly against bin Laden in Afghanistan, that it was against tist infrastructure.
But we're going to learn more about all of that from Secretary Cohen. We can see that he is about to sit down and begin to testify.
PHILLIPS: All right. We will dip in there, Barbara Starr live from the Pentagon. As soon as that happens -- acty, I'm told we're going to listen in right now. Perfect timing. Thanks, Barbara.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
