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White House Fires Back Against Former Advisor; Dean Endorses Kerry; British Explorers Being Rescued from Mexican Cave; Palestinian Teen Arrested Wearing Explosives; Al Qaeda's No. 2 Urges Pakistanis to Revolt

Aired March 25, 2004 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This is Thursday, March 25. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

O'BRIEN: The hearings are over, but the talking continues, not to mention the sniping, accusing the -- and the squabbling, all about the U.S. government's failure to anticipate and thwart 9/11.

The newly famous, former White House counterterrorism aide is stepping up his accusations against his former colleagues and bosses in the Bush administration, and they are stepping up their defenses.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is following it all while traveling with the president in New Hampshire -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

President Bush is spending his time in New Hampshire, as well as Boston. He is emphasizing his domestic agenda, his economic policies. And of course, the White House still trying to analyze the fallout of the 9/11 commission, the hearings that took place the last two days, particularly those allegation from Richard Clarke, really the blame game that's going on here.

The last accusations coming from Clarke last night on "LARRY KING LIVE." He squarely put the blame on National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, suggesting that she could have done more to prevent the 9/11 attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISOR: Some people in the FBI knew. And if Condi Rice had within doing her job and holding those daily meetings, the way Sandy Berger did, if she had a hands-on attitude to being national security advisor, when she had information there was a threat against the United States that kind of information was shaken out in December 1999.

It would have been shaken out in the summer of 2001, if she had been doing her job.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Now, White House aides, hearing that, are bristling at those comments, many of them, behind the scenes, just simply saying that it's outrageous, some of them suggesting that it doesn't even dignify a response. But you can bet, Miles, that they are responding today, as they will in the days to come.

Today, we heard from Secretary of State Colin Powell. He was testifying on the Hill. And he took issue squarely with Richard Clarke's allegations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The very first briefing I received during my transition period some four days after President Bush announced me was from Mr. Clarke and the other colleagues that he had, and -- becoming my colleagues, and the outgoing administration who were involved in intelligence and terrorism.

This isn't the sign of somebody who didn't have an interest in terrorism. It was also something the president made clear we had to be interested in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Now, Miles, there are two things that the White House is going to focus on and continue to emphasize.

First and foremost, that it was eight years under the Clinton administration that was trying to essentially go after al Qaeda, but it was simply eight months that the Bush administration before the September 11 attacks. But within months, they had a plan to eliminate al Qaeda.

The second point, of course, is that they are also saying that what is more important than judging President Bush prior to the September 11 attacks is how he handled it after those attacks and how he is conducting the war on terror -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Suzanne, the president's there to talk about the economy, ostensibly. Will he get into this area at all?

MALVEAUX: We really don't anticipate that he's going to talk about that, that particular area here. Normally what happens is when he does one of these job training, local conversations, he sticks to the topic.

We do expect that he'll talk about tax cuts, that he'll talk about incentives for small businesses. As you'll notice, the White House really wants to focus on some of those domestic agendas, as well.

The polls show that President Bush is behind Kerry when it comes to support for his domestic policy, that he is much stronger when it comes to the war on terror. They really want to build up that support, as well.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: It's official, Dean for Kerry for president. A month after giving up his own campaign, the Democrat who briefly was the candidate to beat says the real priority is beating Bush/Cheney in November. Thus, today's endorsement of the Democratic nominee to be, John Kerry.

Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace in Washington.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, well, Howard Dean can be valuable to John Kerry in a number of ways.

He can help encourage his more than 500,000 Internet supporters to back John Kerry. He can also do something else.

As Ralph Nader is getting more and more traction, at least in recent polls, Howard Dean is encouraging his supporters, say backing Ralph Nader would only help re-elect George Bush. It would not help John Kerry at all.

And then Howard Dean can do something else. He can galvanize the base. That is what we saw here today, as he talked to college students, Howard Dean talking about the September 11 hearings and Richard Clarke, author of that controversial book, and a big critic of the Bush administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But the real issue is this, you know, I got such a kick out of seeing the president huff and puff and get all indignant over the testimony of Richard Clarke this week.

And the real issue is this, who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America: a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now, fair to say Howard Dean and John Kerry did not exactly see eye to eye during the presidential campaign. In fact, the former Vermont governor was one of the biggest critics of John Kerry.

But John Kerry trying to play down those differences, saying you have to look hard for differences between the two men, and that despite their differences, they are united in wanting to defeat President Bush in November.

The two men will appear together again tonight. A big Democratic Party dinner. Democratic officials say it will be a record-breaking event, bringing in more than $10 million.

And, Kyra, it will be a who's who in the Democratic Party. Former presidents Clinton and Carter, vice president -- former Vice President Al Gore will there be, other presidential candidates.

And they hope to start getting the momentum together because John Kerry right now is more than about $100 million behind what the Bush- Cheney team has right now -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Kelly Wallace, thank you.

And the Bush/Cheney campaign releases some new ads this afternoon. Here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm George W. Bush, and I approve this message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry's record, troubling. Kerry voted to increases taxes on Social Security benefits, and he voted against giving small businesses tax credits to buy health care for employee.

Kerry even supported raising taxes on gasoline, 50 cents a gallon.

Now John Kerry's plan will raise taxes by at least $900 billion his first 100 days in office. And that's just his first 100 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And breaking news now. This just in to CNN: Al Jazeera TV, we are being told, you know that Arabic television station, is airing a purported new tape of senior al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, in which we are being told, he calls on Pakistanis to overthrow their government.

You'll remember, this was a breaking new story we brought to you last week. The Pakistani troops believed that they had the No. 2 man of al Qaeda, the mind behind al Qaeda, best friend to Osama bin Laden, cornered in an area on the Afghan/Pakistani border.

It turned out that that high-value target that President Pervez Musharraf was talking about did not turn out to be Zawahiri at that moment.

Now a tape being released, possibly an audiotape from the senior al Qaeda leader, calling on Pakistanis to overthrow their government.

We are in the process of translating this tape. We'll bring you more information as we get it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: South of the border, stuck in a cave. British Navy divers in Mexico are trying to rescue six of their countrymen, who have been trapped underground, but apparently in no imminent danger. That's for a week now. We get the lowdown from CNN's Harris Whitbeck. And we'll bring that to you in just a moment.

Well, he urged us to sweat the oldies, but now Richard Simmons may be sweating a police citation after he allegedly comes out swinging.

If you're watching carbs, you're probably frustrated by food labels. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta will explain a new way to clear up carb confusion.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm John Zarrella at spring training. All this talk about steroids ruining the game of baseball, you wouldn't know it by the size of the crowds here.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching CNN's LIVE FROM with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: New developments to tell you about now, during the second day of hearings into the sexual history of Kobe Bryant's accuser.

Adrian Baschuk joins us now from Eagle, Colorado, with the details -- Adrian.

ADRIAN BASCHUK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, good afternoon.

You know, yesterday, we heard -- or, well, we knew that the alleged victim was testifying in this case behind closed doors. So no details released to the public and the media.

So today, her personal attorney has released this motion, has entered it into the court and asking the judge to immediately send this case to trial.

The reason behind that, he says that she has had to endure almost eight months of these proceedings going on. There's been about eight pretrial motions with six more in line, totaling five months that she will have to endure these stressful days.

In it, there are details, some disturbing descriptions as to the conditions that she's had to face over the course of the last eight months. In it, they describe that she's been forced to quit school, that she cannot live at home, cannot keep in touch with her friends and has literally received hundreds of phone calls and e-mails, threatening her life and mutilation -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Adrian Baschuk, we'll be following this out of Eagle, Colorado. Thank you -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: South of the border, well, this is that story we were trying to bring you just a few moments ago. Harris Whitbeck joining us live now at the scene of an attempt to rescue some British Navy -- some members of Great Britain who are trapped in a cave there.

Harris, give us latest.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

One of the six people who have been trapped in this underground cave for over a week now has now passed through a pool of water that formed, and it was that pool of water that trapped these cavers.

He was taken through that pool of water by British Navy drivers who arrived on the scene yesterday. They came carrying extra equipment, extra oxygen tanks, and they are now in the process of bringing all of these explorers out from that underground cave.

This is a very, very isolated area in the mountains of eastern Mexico. And it's taken awhile to get everything in place for the rescue to be undertaken.

That is now underway and officials from the British embassy here say that the rescue will take several hours. They do say everybody in that cave is in very good shape and in very good spirits.

Now, a lot of questions have been raised about what these British explorers were doing in the first place. Many of the members of this exploration team are members of the British military, and yesterday, Mexican President Vicente Fox asked his foreign minister to lodge a formal protest with the British government, because he says that the Mexican government was never officially notified that there were members of the British military on this expedition.

The expedition -- the official reason for the expedition is that they are here to map a large network of underground caves that they say could be one of the five largest underground cave systems in the world. So they say that their work is of an exploratory nature.

And they also say that some of the members of the military that are in that team are here on what they call adventure sports training, which helps boost their morale and also gives them lessons in teamwork.

Again, Miles, the rescue of these cavers is now underway. Everybody here says that it's going very well, although it could take several hours -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Harris Whitbeck, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: A river of honey, a river of wine and 72 virgins, Islam's promise of paradise for Muslim martyrs, reportedly a Palestinian teenager's motive for an ungodly act.

Israelis want to know whether Hussam Abdo had any other encouragement to put on a vest packed with explosives and walk toward an Israeli army checkpoint in the West Bank.

The teen was stopped, disarmed and arrested before anyone was hurt, all the while telling soldiers he didn't want to die.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is live this hour, with kids and bombs, what both sides are calling an appalling phenomenon -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, it certainly is something that has disturbed both sides of this conflict.

Many Palestinians seem -- For instance, one Palestinian psychiatrist I spoke to today saying that this appears to be a sign that Palestinian society, after three and a half years of violence, is beginning to collapse, that authority figures like parents simply don't have the kind of control they used to have over their children.

And that groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, those militant organizations, are able to somehow lure young children into doing what seems unimaginable for most people outside.

Today, for instance, I spoke to a 13-year-old boy whose brother had been killed while attacking an Israeli position in Gaza. And he told me repeatedly that he would like to become a martyr like his brother, as well.

I went afterwards to his mother to find out what she thought of this. And she said, "If he tried, if I knew he was going out to kill himself, attacking the Israelis," she wouldn't stop him.

So the situation -- certainly, as bad as it is, but this case of the young boy who was stopped at this Israeli checkpoint with the explosives belt has really sent shock waives through Israeli, as well as Palestinian society -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ben Wedeman, thank you. And as Ben mentioned, Palestinian experts say that the desperation driving suicide attacks among the young points to nothing less than the breakdown of Palestinian society.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. IVAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: Our environment today is an environment that glorifies martyrdom, glorifies the martyr as a symbol of power, and compares them to the father image that has been demolished by humiliation and impotence and helplessness, that the father is no more a symbol for the children to look up for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Israeli forces say that they're treating Hussam Abdo with care while holding him at least partially responsible for his actions.

O'BRIEN: The judge has a word of warning, as grand jury selection in the Michael Jackson molestation case gets underway. We'll have a live report on that.

And if you're not careful, you're going to miss your big chance to see the Fab Five. And no, we're not talking about those "Queer Eye" guys. We're talking about something celestial. There are five planets coming together for a rare stellar event. We'll show you what to look for.

And we're looking for your e-mails on this subject: should words "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance? E-mail us at LiveFrom@CNN.com. Also, there's a tape purportedly recorded by the No. 2 al Qaeda man, Ayman al-Zawahiri. We're looking at it now. We're translating it. We'll get you some more information on it as it comes in. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: As we told you just a few moments ago, the pan-Arab news station Al Jazeera is releasing a tape purportedly recorded by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the No. 2 man in al Qaeda.

You remember last week, we had reported at length about the possibility of al-Zawahiri was holed up in a cave in the mountains of Pakistan, right near the Afghan border, and that Pakistani troops were closing in on him.

That, of course, proved not to be the case. Nevertheless, the story of Ayman al Zawahiri continues.

And joining us for more on that is Octavia Nasr, who is our senior editor for Arab affairs here at CNN and CNN international. Octavia has been listening to al-Jazeera and has a sense, at least the general gist, of the tape.

What can you tell us?

OCTAVIA NASR, SENIOR EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS, CNN: Well, first of all, the big question is it Ayman al-Zawahiri? And we have no independent confirmation it is him. So if we take the word of Al Jazeera on this, it is Ayman al-Zawahiri.

They received an audiotape of him. In it, the same rhetoric, the same call for Jihad and to protect the nation of Islam and the Muslims of the world.

What's interesting here, if we want to put a time line on this tape, there is only one mention of the attacks on the border region. That's in Waziristan. He doesn't say Waziristan per se but he mentions the two different tribes of that area, and that's the Pashtun and the Beluge.

And now of course, recently, about a month ago, the Pakistanis started sort of fighting -- waging a war against the tribes in that area, because they were believed to have either the No. 1 and No. 2 of al Qaeda, but also a lot of the Taliban fighters, a lot of the al Qaeda members.

So because the Pakistani government had this feeling, and they were getting tips that, indeed, some Arabs -- they call them foreigners there -- are hiding, and the tribes are hiding them in their homes. They started to attack.

First of all, they were negotiating with the tribes, trying to get the tribes to help them and give these men up. Later, they added some pressure, especially in the last two weeks. They added pressure; they started making arrests. They started, also, conducting surprise searches.

And in a culture like that one of Afghanistan, this is very insulting. So Zawahiri, if this is Zawahiri on this tape, what he was doing on this tape is trying to appeal to their -- to their pride and say what Pakistan is doing to you is not right, and you'd better stand up and do something about it.

O'BRIEN: All right. A couple quick points. Does it sound like Zawahiri?

NASR: It does sound like him.

O'BRIEN: OK. Still need to verify that?

NASR: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: That confirmation may come, perhaps, from the U.S. government; who knows? But nevertheless, Al Jazeera in the past, these kind of things, these tapes have proven to be authentic, recorded by the individual.

NASR: Right.

O'BRIEN: All right. And another thought, you -- unclear exactly what date this might have been recorded. Because as you say no specific reference to that huge press that supposedly had surrounded him.

NASR: No, no specifics. And Zawahiri and bin Laden, for that matter, they've been very careful. They're trying to give time lines, but they're not very specific, because they don't know when these tapes are going to reach the media, when people are going to hear them.

We do know that the Pakistani forces have been closing in on that area of -- it's the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan called Waziristan. In the last few weeks. So at least we can put it there.

Actually, Jazeera interviewed a general of the Pakistani army to ask him specifically about that, and he said, you know, he puts it back to eight, nine days ago. But, again, that's pretty recent for the No. 2 man in al Qaeda.

O'BRIEN: The other thing that is specifically mentioned in this tape, purportedly by al Zawahiri, waiting for confirmation on that, is calling Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, a traitor, and urging people to overthrow him. How -- how will that play on the Arab street?

NASR: Well, these are very strong words. He called him a traitor. He also called him a Muslim killer, and again, appealing to the emotions of these tribes, telling them, you are so hospitable. You are so kind to your brothers, the Muslims.

And look at this man. What he's doing, he's turning himself into a puppet in the hands of the U.S. and its coalition. A huge attack on Pervez Musharraf. This is not the first time. He did that -- Zawahiri did that before, to the point where observers were saying anytime Zawahiri mentions a person or country, we should expect an attack in that country.

Of course, Pervez Musharraf survived two assassination attempts, and I'm not suggesting that al Qaeda was behind them. But it is something to be very careful with, and look at very closely.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's been widely linked -- those assassination attempts have been linked to al Qaeda. And we can all be the judge of that.

But it does raise an important question here. Is this, in addition to public relations, if you can call it that, is this a means of communication with those cells out there? And could we be playing into their hands by telling this story?

NASR: Yes. And observers do tell us that. And, you know, our policy -- the CNN policy is very clear on this. We do not want to be the conduit of these messages. That's why you don't hear Zawahiri on CNN air.

The -- there are messages. Obviously, like I said, observers tell us anytime Zawahiri mentions a country or a person, we should expect an attack, or an assassination attempt on the life of that person.

Yes. The message in this tape is so clear. He's telling the Pakistanis -- he's saying to the Pakistani army, I feel sorry for you because Musharraf is using you, and he's going to use you to break up his country. He's going to use you to send you to your death.

Basically, he is calling on the Pakistani army to revolt against their president. He's telling the tribes to stand up against the president. It's very interesting. There is a very clear message. It's not subtle. It's a very clear message this time through.

O'BRIEN: He is clearly baiting President Musharraf. We'll have to see how it unfolds. Octavia Nasr, thank you very much, and keep listening for us and share with us details as you derive them -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We're going to continue the discussion with our chief news executive, Eason Jordan. He just got back from the region.

You actually had time with President Musharraf, talking about al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Taliban. I guess, first of all, let's talk about the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban. Critics say he's protecting these people.

EASON JORDAN, CNN EXECUTIVE: Well, if he ever every was, Kyra, it's not happening now.

This is a very personal fight for Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, because in December, there were two attempts to assassinate him. He blames al Qaeda. He claims to know who was responsible for those attacks. Some people are in custody. He's seeking more people.

But this now has become a personal crusade for the president of Pakistan, because it's really a fight to the death. Either al Qaeda is going to kill him or, in his mind, he is going to kill al Qaeda.

Now, for the past two, three years, al Qaeda has been given essentially free run in these tribal territories bordering Afghanistan. But after these assassination attempts, suddenly, in an unprecedented way, Pakistani military forces have moved into these tribal areas and have gone -- very intensely -- after al Qaeda.

And it's clear that it's not just because it's the right thing to do, but when al Qaeda starts going after the president of Pakistan, the president of Pakistan is now going to go after al Qaeda.

PHILLIPS: Well, and you talk about that this is a passion now for President Musharraf to go after terrorists. The United States wants these players just as much -- Osama bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri, the Taliban, al Qaeda -- to be crushed. Did he talk at all about the commingling of Pakistani troops and the U.S.? At what point will he let the U.S. be more involved in his country?

JORDAN: Well, the U.S. is more involved than Pakistani officials want to admit publicly. There are U.S. forces in those tribal areas. There are Special Forces that are technical advisors. There are Predator drones flying over those areas. There's a lot of behind the scenes expertise from the U.S. being contributed in Pakistan.

But Musharraf is walking a real high wire here, because in Pakistan, there is enormous support for al Qaeda.

Recently, just a few weeks ago in a public opinion poll was conducted in Pakistan. People were asked whether they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Osama bin Laden.

Stunningly, 65 percent of the people of Pakistan said they support Osama bin Laden, and he is enemy No. 1 to both Pervez Musharraf, the president of the country, so it's a real tough spot.

PHILLIPS: What type of efforts are going forward to sort of change that mindset? Is he developing any type of programs or schooling or trying to make drastic changes so that stereotype -- or that, I guess, the mindset is broken?

JORDAN: Well, he's out there, trying to convince the people of Pakistan to do the right thing, but it's tough. And a lot of people, when they voice support for Osama bin Laden, it's not so much supporting bin Laden, but voicing opposition to the United States and what a lot of what Pakistanis view as imperialist policies in that part of the world and elsewhere in the Middle East.

But President Musharraf recently went to Peshawar, which is the capital of these border territories, and met with all the tribal chiefs and pushed very, very hard, the tribal chiefs, to join him in the fight against al Qaeda. And he claims that everyone in attendance, and all the tribal chiefs were there, rallied around him and said that they would join him to try to track down bin Laden, Zawahiri, in these territories, and the entire al Qaeda leadership.

And I should point out, until recently, Musharraf insisted vehemently that the al Qaeda leadership was not in Pakistan. Now he freely admits that there's a possibility that they are there.

PHILLIPS: Eason Jordan, thank you.

We continue to follow this story. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The president of the United States in New Hampshire today, there to talk about the economy. But in Nashua, before getting to matters relating to jobs and tax cuts and the like, he talked briefly about the hearings we saw all unfold these past two days in Washington, specifically, the testimony of Richard Clarke, specifically the testimony of Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism boss inside the Bush administration.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: Commission going on in Washington, D.C., it's a very important commission.

It's a commission determined to look at the eight months of my administration and the eight years of the previous administration, to determine what we can learn. What we can do to make sure we uphold our solemn duty.

Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to strike America, to attack us, I would have used every resource, every asset, every power, of this government to protect the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: In about 30 minutes, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, will hold a briefing at the Pentagon, along with the joint chiefs chairman General Richard Myers. Sure to be more talk on this subject there. And we, of course, will bring it to you live. It begins at 2 p.m. Eastern time.

Standing down in New York harbor. The Statue of Liberty, which has been closed to visitors since the 9/11 terror attacks, will be reopened shortly a national park official told Congress today. Security, health, and safety enhancements at the site are being helped by a $7 million contribution from the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island Foundation.

PHILLIPS: Well, if you're like millions of other Americans, chances are, you're on some kind of low carb diet. You're probably looking at -- a lot closer at the labels these days, too.

But can you believe everything you read? Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESONDENT: Looking for low carb labels? Sure. But is that what you're really getting? Maybe not.

You see, the FDA defined reduced fat and low calorie a long time ago, but as of now, there are no set guidelines for carbohydrate labels.

Diet or no diet, carbohydrates are important. The American Dietetic Association says you need at least 130 grams a day for proper brain function.

Whereas low carb supporter say 40 to 60 grams is enough to feel good and lose weight, provided you take certain supplements to make up for the carb reductions.

But all those labels and that advice can be confusing. So here's a tip: use net carbs to keep track. Net carbs are calculated by taking the total number of carbs and subtracting sugar alcohols and good carbs such as fiber.

DR. STUART TRAGER, ATKINS PHYSICIANS COUNCIL: Clearly, a term like net carb that gives a value that people can compare.

O'BRIEN: For the time being, however, you're not going to fine net carb labels on many food products. So in the interim, food manufacturers and consumer groups have asked the FDA for a standard.

Six grams per serving for an item to be called low carb. And at least 25 percent fewer carbs than the original for the reduced label.

Remember, products like breads, pastas, and chips are made low carb by increasing fiber content and sugar alcohols. If you feel like you're cheating you are, a little bit. They're not meant to replace eating good carbs, such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.

TRAGER: It's about making better food choices in general. The products are useful in helping people stick to a lifestyle that otherwise may be challenging.

GUPTA: Challenging. Well, that's a description for any diet, low carb, or not.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And we want to let you know, coming after the break, we will go live to Islamabad. Our Nic Robertson gauging reaction on this audiotape released by Al Jazeera television with the voice of al Qaeda's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri. We'll have that right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Is this the voice of al Qaeda's No. 2, Osama bin Laden's mentor and teacher, al-Zawahiri?

Nic Robertson gauging reaction now, live from Islamabad.

Nic, what's the word?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, it's likely that this statement by Ayman al-Zawahiri, if it does prove to be him, will strike some chords here.

We have seen as this Pakistani government military operation in the border area of Waziristan has dragged on, we have seen civilian casualties.

But as it has dragged on over a week now, we've seen an increasing number of protests around the country. Not only in the tribal region, not only in the northwest frontier province, not only in towns near Waziristan, but also as far away as the southern port city of Karachi.

Clearly, Ayman al-Zawahiri's message that people should rise up against Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf is something -- the conflict that the battle in Waziristan by Pakistani forces to catch al Qaeda members and the foreign fighters they believe are there, has already -- it will, likely, strike a chord, because already, there is a level of resentment.

Just two days ago, rockets were fired at a government building in Peshawar, a frontier town close to the Afghan border. The interior minister here at that time said that he thought that was a tribal backlash.

So it is a little late in the evening here, Kyra, to get official reaction, although we are trying to track that down from Pakistani government officials.

But the feeling that's been generate generated over the last week or so by the government's reaction in Waziristan is likely to -- is likely to, certainly, rally people to Ayman al-Zawahiri's court.

PHILLIPS: And Nic, you'll remember, last week, we had breaking news coverage when Pakistani troops had converged on the area there on the Afghan/Pakistan border, President Pervez Musharraf coming forward, saying there was a high value target in that area.

We started talking about the fact that it could be Ayman al- Zawahiri. We couldn't confirm it. We could confirm it. It was a mismatch of information.

Now you have this audiotape, something that wasn't sent in by the mail or delivered. This was a face-to-face interview. Is this pretty much securing the fact that al Qaeda's No. 2 is alive and well? ROBERTSON: It's very difficult to say for sure. That -- the audiotape -- the message on the audiotape that calls for people to rise up against President Musharraf, that is not a new message from Ayman al-Zawahiri.

What needs to be determined is whether or not this message was recorded in the last week or so. The reference is made to the government crackdown in the tribal regions. Now we know President Musharraf's troops have been increasingly putting pressure in the tribal regions, on tribal elements there, over the last few months. So it's not clear if that message has been recorded recently.

What we do -- what we have learned from government officials here, much more clearly than we knew a week ago, in the last couple of days, the interior minister said that there was no concrete evidence, no concrete reason to believe that Ayman al-Zawahiri was ever in that area.

And it does seem, through a network of tunnels that were in that area that any high value target hiding out in that area, whoever it may be -- Pakistani government has said could have been Chechens, could have been an Uzbek militia commander. It seems very likely at this time, whoever those high value targets were, they may have escaped.

The government here, though, is still negotiating with holdout tribal members and other people they're calling foreign fighters still holding out in that area. The battle is still far from over. It's in a period of negotiation just now -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic, at any point on this audiotape do you know if al- Zawahiri mentioned anything about that standoff last week with Pakistani troops?

ROBERTSON: In the specific -- there were no specific references that I have heard yet.

Now, we continue to analyze that tape. We continue to try and seek input from Pakistani officials here to see what they think they might have heard, and if there are any clues that they can pick up on that would indicate to them that, indeed, it was recorded inside the last week or so.

Now, when that battle began, it was quite intense, artillery barrages, helicopters brought in, rocket fire on the compounds. It's really slowed down a lot now.

Now it's in a period of negotiation. But this protracted negotiation is what's bringing problems for the Pakistani government.

People have seen -- in their newspapers here, they've seen it on television. They've seen pictures of civilians who have been injured, even outside of those tribal regions that have typically been incredibly independent from Pakistani's government. Indeed, described as no-go areas. Even outside of there, in cities like Islamabad, well-educated populations, there is a feeling of support for the people there, that their tribal culture of independence should be respected. And that is something, as well, that the Pakistani government will be thinking about as Ayman al-Zawahiri raises -- tries to raise the temperature against President Musharraf at this time.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson, live from Islamabad. Thanks, Nic.

If you're just tuning in, we're going to continue following this breaking news coverage. A newly released audiotape message attributed to al Qaeda's No. 2. We're following this coverage, bringing you the translations. More after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Grand jury selection scheduled to start today in Santa Barbara, California, and the child molestation case against Michael Jackson could be on the docket.

The proceeding comes with a stern legal warning aimed at protecting potential grand jurors, expected to hear the high-profile case.

Our Miguel Marquez explains.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, it's not just affecting grand jurors, it's affecting the media, as well.

The point of that decorum order, as the judge put it, is to keep the media from making these normally secret grand jury proceedings unsecret. So he's trying to preserve the secretness of grand jury proceedings.

CNN has confirmed that the 19 jurors who are seated for this criminal grand jury could begin hearing information and evidence on the Jackson case as soon as Monday.

We also have learned that District Attorney Tom Sneddon could present evidence in the Jackson case to those 19 members of the grand jury for as long as four weeks, two to four weeks.

At the end of that process, presumably, Mr. Sneddon will ask jurors to indict Jackson on charges of child molestation and administering an intoxicating agent to a minor. Twelve of the 19 jurors must vote to indict on each and every count.

So what evidence is the grand jury likely to hear? You know, there's no judge in these proceedings typically. It's the D.A.'s show alone.

The question has been raised about the evidence from Jackson's 1939 molestation case, which was settled out of court. And whether or not evidence from it could be used in the current proceeding.

A retired formal grand jury supervisor from L.A. County tells CNN just what sort of testimony in evidence could be in this proceeding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GUTHMAN, FORMER LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY SUPERVISOR: Transcripts of prior testimony would only in rare instances, be admissible in an indictment proceeding.

MARQUEZ: But those witnesses themselves could be compelled to testify?

GUTHMAN: That's what a subpoena is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now, the district attorney must also present evidence that could exonerate Mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson's lawyers would not be present during any point in these proceedings.

Mr. Jackson has been invited to testify but has not been subpoenaed. It is unlikely that he would take, according to legal experts, that he would take District Attorney Tom Sneddon up on that invitation to testify.

If and when the grand jury comes back with an indictment, that indictment, then, would supersede the criminal indictment that we've been dealing with since Mr. Jackson was arrested and then arraigned in January -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Miguel Marquez, thank you very much.

We're going to take a break. When we return, we'll tell you about the Fab Five. And we're talking celestial Fab Five. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Kyra Phillips, a little bleary eyed today. She was up all night, looking at the stars. She's just wowed by the Fab Five. Actually, what we're talking about here is a rare alignment of five planets in our own solar system.

Excited?

PHILLIPS: I am so thrilled right now. As I draw you pictures.

O'BRIEN: I'm No. 1. All right.

Let's check in with one of our favorite space experts, who happens to spend a little bit of time looking at the stars, when he's not writing fabulous books about the Apollo program and other things.

Andy Chaiken, author of "A Man on the Moon" and perhaps most important for this segment, lives in Vermont, where the sky is very dark, because that's important.

PHILLIPS: No pollution. O'BRIEN: No pollution, light or otherwise. Andy, good to hear your voice.

ANDY CHAIKEN, AUTHOR, "A MAN ON THE MOON": Hello, Miles. Hello, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Hi, Andy.

O'BRIEN: First of all, let's look -- This is a picture that Andy shot. When did you take this picture, Andy?

CHAIKEN: Well, I hope you're talking about the one on the left because the one on the right was taken by a space probe.

O'BRIEN: No, no, no. That was Galileo. Here's your picture and we're going to zoom in on it.

Well, he did the best he could with his little digital camera.

CHAIKEN: That would be -- that would be amazing. No, this is a mosaic of pictures that I shot just three days ago on the 22nd, from right outside my house. In fact, you can see part of my house on the lower right.

PHILLIPS: That's a nice house.

O'BRIEN: The house there, it's very Vermonty.

CHAIKEN: Very Vermonty, yes.

O'BRIEN: So upper left is which planet?

CHAIKEN: Well, you can see right above the house, if you zoom in right above the window, you can see Venus...

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKEN: ... which is very, very bright right now in the southwestern sky. Now, if I'd gone out earlier, I would have caught Mercury, as well. That's the other planet that's

O'BRIEN: Mercury -- Mercury is sort of not seen here. We'll put Mercury off there somewhere, right?

CHAIKEN: Mercury is not visible but not forgotten. And then to the upper left is Venus. I wish we could zoom in a little bit.

O'BRIEN: We're zooming in right now.

CHAIKEN: Zooming in. Now you can see Venus on the lower right.

O'BRIEN: There's Venus, right? This is Mars, right?

CHAIKEN: And Mars and then...

O'BRIEN: There's Saturn. CHAIKEN: ... to the upper left of that is Saturn.

O'BRIEN: OK.

CHAIKEN: And if you go way -- yes if you go way over to the left...

O'BRIEN: I'm going to go over to the left. Stay with me.

CHAIKEN: ... you see Jupiter.

O'BRIEN: Hang on. We're going to get to Jupiter right now. They show Jupiter. And here, folks, is Jupiter over there.

CHAIKEN: That's four out of the Fab Five. And this is a rare thing. In other words, people should go out now. It's going to be like this until the beginning of April.

Go out at dusk, at sunset, and you'll see all five: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. And I shot these pictures a little after sunset, like 8 p.m. at night. But right through the first days of April, you'll be able to see this.

And now is the time to look, because the next time all five planets will be in one sky will not be until the year 2016. You'll have to get up before sunrise to do that. And then again, in sunset, after sunset, in the year 2036.

O'BRIEN: All right, now this is a little family portrait of our solar system. These are images that Andy wasn't able to acquire.

PHILLIPS: That's from my school textbook.

CHAIKEN: I think the thing about this is, you notice I took these pictures without a telescope, just with a digital camera, and this is something that anybody can enjoy without a telescope and see the neighboring worlds of our solar system and make a little exploration of their own into this fabulous universe that we live in.

O'BRIEN: I threw in this Opportunity shot just because I like it. It shows the crater where Opportunity has been, just to give you a little sense of Mars up close and personal.

And then finally, here's a little diagram for you. And we'll try to walk you through this as quickly as we can.

All right. Over here will be Jupiter in the sky.

CHAIKEN: That is at dusk.

O'BRIEN: And this is Saturn, and this is just after sunset, right? And Mars over here. That's Venus, and then finally, the lower...

CHAIKEN: ... and then Mercury is much dimmer but just above the western horizon. You're right when you show the pictures of the space probes and Opportunity on Mars. When we look at these worlds, these are worlds that we are exploring.

In fact, the Cassini probe is heading for orbit around Saturn this summer. That's a very exciting mission.

So when we look up at these planets we're looking at worlds that are not only in the sky for us to admire but also to explore and to unfold with all of the -- the knowledge of our solar system.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quick as you can say Celestron, Andy Chaiken has once again excited Kyra Phillips on the prospects of looking at the stars.

Thank you, Andy.

PHILLIPS: He's so cute.

CHAIKEN: Thank you, Miles, and, Kyra, you should take a look.

PHILLIPS: I promise. I promise I will. I'll go to his house and check them out.

O'BRIEN: She's lying. She's lying.

PHILLIPS: All right. Coming up in the next hour of LIVE FROM, we do expect to hear shortly from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a live Pentagon briefing. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 25, 2004 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This is Thursday, March 25. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

O'BRIEN: The hearings are over, but the talking continues, not to mention the sniping, accusing the -- and the squabbling, all about the U.S. government's failure to anticipate and thwart 9/11.

The newly famous, former White House counterterrorism aide is stepping up his accusations against his former colleagues and bosses in the Bush administration, and they are stepping up their defenses.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is following it all while traveling with the president in New Hampshire -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

President Bush is spending his time in New Hampshire, as well as Boston. He is emphasizing his domestic agenda, his economic policies. And of course, the White House still trying to analyze the fallout of the 9/11 commission, the hearings that took place the last two days, particularly those allegation from Richard Clarke, really the blame game that's going on here.

The last accusations coming from Clarke last night on "LARRY KING LIVE." He squarely put the blame on National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, suggesting that she could have done more to prevent the 9/11 attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISOR: Some people in the FBI knew. And if Condi Rice had within doing her job and holding those daily meetings, the way Sandy Berger did, if she had a hands-on attitude to being national security advisor, when she had information there was a threat against the United States that kind of information was shaken out in December 1999.

It would have been shaken out in the summer of 2001, if she had been doing her job.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Now, White House aides, hearing that, are bristling at those comments, many of them, behind the scenes, just simply saying that it's outrageous, some of them suggesting that it doesn't even dignify a response. But you can bet, Miles, that they are responding today, as they will in the days to come.

Today, we heard from Secretary of State Colin Powell. He was testifying on the Hill. And he took issue squarely with Richard Clarke's allegations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The very first briefing I received during my transition period some four days after President Bush announced me was from Mr. Clarke and the other colleagues that he had, and -- becoming my colleagues, and the outgoing administration who were involved in intelligence and terrorism.

This isn't the sign of somebody who didn't have an interest in terrorism. It was also something the president made clear we had to be interested in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Now, Miles, there are two things that the White House is going to focus on and continue to emphasize.

First and foremost, that it was eight years under the Clinton administration that was trying to essentially go after al Qaeda, but it was simply eight months that the Bush administration before the September 11 attacks. But within months, they had a plan to eliminate al Qaeda.

The second point, of course, is that they are also saying that what is more important than judging President Bush prior to the September 11 attacks is how he handled it after those attacks and how he is conducting the war on terror -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Suzanne, the president's there to talk about the economy, ostensibly. Will he get into this area at all?

MALVEAUX: We really don't anticipate that he's going to talk about that, that particular area here. Normally what happens is when he does one of these job training, local conversations, he sticks to the topic.

We do expect that he'll talk about tax cuts, that he'll talk about incentives for small businesses. As you'll notice, the White House really wants to focus on some of those domestic agendas, as well.

The polls show that President Bush is behind Kerry when it comes to support for his domestic policy, that he is much stronger when it comes to the war on terror. They really want to build up that support, as well.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: It's official, Dean for Kerry for president. A month after giving up his own campaign, the Democrat who briefly was the candidate to beat says the real priority is beating Bush/Cheney in November. Thus, today's endorsement of the Democratic nominee to be, John Kerry.

Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace in Washington.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, well, Howard Dean can be valuable to John Kerry in a number of ways.

He can help encourage his more than 500,000 Internet supporters to back John Kerry. He can also do something else.

As Ralph Nader is getting more and more traction, at least in recent polls, Howard Dean is encouraging his supporters, say backing Ralph Nader would only help re-elect George Bush. It would not help John Kerry at all.

And then Howard Dean can do something else. He can galvanize the base. That is what we saw here today, as he talked to college students, Howard Dean talking about the September 11 hearings and Richard Clarke, author of that controversial book, and a big critic of the Bush administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But the real issue is this, you know, I got such a kick out of seeing the president huff and puff and get all indignant over the testimony of Richard Clarke this week.

And the real issue is this, who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America: a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now, fair to say Howard Dean and John Kerry did not exactly see eye to eye during the presidential campaign. In fact, the former Vermont governor was one of the biggest critics of John Kerry.

But John Kerry trying to play down those differences, saying you have to look hard for differences between the two men, and that despite their differences, they are united in wanting to defeat President Bush in November.

The two men will appear together again tonight. A big Democratic Party dinner. Democratic officials say it will be a record-breaking event, bringing in more than $10 million.

And, Kyra, it will be a who's who in the Democratic Party. Former presidents Clinton and Carter, vice president -- former Vice President Al Gore will there be, other presidential candidates.

And they hope to start getting the momentum together because John Kerry right now is more than about $100 million behind what the Bush- Cheney team has right now -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Kelly Wallace, thank you.

And the Bush/Cheney campaign releases some new ads this afternoon. Here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm George W. Bush, and I approve this message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry's record, troubling. Kerry voted to increases taxes on Social Security benefits, and he voted against giving small businesses tax credits to buy health care for employee.

Kerry even supported raising taxes on gasoline, 50 cents a gallon.

Now John Kerry's plan will raise taxes by at least $900 billion his first 100 days in office. And that's just his first 100 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And breaking news now. This just in to CNN: Al Jazeera TV, we are being told, you know that Arabic television station, is airing a purported new tape of senior al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, in which we are being told, he calls on Pakistanis to overthrow their government.

You'll remember, this was a breaking new story we brought to you last week. The Pakistani troops believed that they had the No. 2 man of al Qaeda, the mind behind al Qaeda, best friend to Osama bin Laden, cornered in an area on the Afghan/Pakistani border.

It turned out that that high-value target that President Pervez Musharraf was talking about did not turn out to be Zawahiri at that moment.

Now a tape being released, possibly an audiotape from the senior al Qaeda leader, calling on Pakistanis to overthrow their government.

We are in the process of translating this tape. We'll bring you more information as we get it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: South of the border, stuck in a cave. British Navy divers in Mexico are trying to rescue six of their countrymen, who have been trapped underground, but apparently in no imminent danger. That's for a week now. We get the lowdown from CNN's Harris Whitbeck. And we'll bring that to you in just a moment.

Well, he urged us to sweat the oldies, but now Richard Simmons may be sweating a police citation after he allegedly comes out swinging.

If you're watching carbs, you're probably frustrated by food labels. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta will explain a new way to clear up carb confusion.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm John Zarrella at spring training. All this talk about steroids ruining the game of baseball, you wouldn't know it by the size of the crowds here.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching CNN's LIVE FROM with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: New developments to tell you about now, during the second day of hearings into the sexual history of Kobe Bryant's accuser.

Adrian Baschuk joins us now from Eagle, Colorado, with the details -- Adrian.

ADRIAN BASCHUK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, good afternoon.

You know, yesterday, we heard -- or, well, we knew that the alleged victim was testifying in this case behind closed doors. So no details released to the public and the media.

So today, her personal attorney has released this motion, has entered it into the court and asking the judge to immediately send this case to trial.

The reason behind that, he says that she has had to endure almost eight months of these proceedings going on. There's been about eight pretrial motions with six more in line, totaling five months that she will have to endure these stressful days.

In it, there are details, some disturbing descriptions as to the conditions that she's had to face over the course of the last eight months. In it, they describe that she's been forced to quit school, that she cannot live at home, cannot keep in touch with her friends and has literally received hundreds of phone calls and e-mails, threatening her life and mutilation -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Adrian Baschuk, we'll be following this out of Eagle, Colorado. Thank you -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: South of the border, well, this is that story we were trying to bring you just a few moments ago. Harris Whitbeck joining us live now at the scene of an attempt to rescue some British Navy -- some members of Great Britain who are trapped in a cave there.

Harris, give us latest.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

One of the six people who have been trapped in this underground cave for over a week now has now passed through a pool of water that formed, and it was that pool of water that trapped these cavers.

He was taken through that pool of water by British Navy drivers who arrived on the scene yesterday. They came carrying extra equipment, extra oxygen tanks, and they are now in the process of bringing all of these explorers out from that underground cave.

This is a very, very isolated area in the mountains of eastern Mexico. And it's taken awhile to get everything in place for the rescue to be undertaken.

That is now underway and officials from the British embassy here say that the rescue will take several hours. They do say everybody in that cave is in very good shape and in very good spirits.

Now, a lot of questions have been raised about what these British explorers were doing in the first place. Many of the members of this exploration team are members of the British military, and yesterday, Mexican President Vicente Fox asked his foreign minister to lodge a formal protest with the British government, because he says that the Mexican government was never officially notified that there were members of the British military on this expedition.

The expedition -- the official reason for the expedition is that they are here to map a large network of underground caves that they say could be one of the five largest underground cave systems in the world. So they say that their work is of an exploratory nature.

And they also say that some of the members of the military that are in that team are here on what they call adventure sports training, which helps boost their morale and also gives them lessons in teamwork.

Again, Miles, the rescue of these cavers is now underway. Everybody here says that it's going very well, although it could take several hours -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Harris Whitbeck, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: A river of honey, a river of wine and 72 virgins, Islam's promise of paradise for Muslim martyrs, reportedly a Palestinian teenager's motive for an ungodly act.

Israelis want to know whether Hussam Abdo had any other encouragement to put on a vest packed with explosives and walk toward an Israeli army checkpoint in the West Bank.

The teen was stopped, disarmed and arrested before anyone was hurt, all the while telling soldiers he didn't want to die.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is live this hour, with kids and bombs, what both sides are calling an appalling phenomenon -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, it certainly is something that has disturbed both sides of this conflict.

Many Palestinians seem -- For instance, one Palestinian psychiatrist I spoke to today saying that this appears to be a sign that Palestinian society, after three and a half years of violence, is beginning to collapse, that authority figures like parents simply don't have the kind of control they used to have over their children.

And that groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, those militant organizations, are able to somehow lure young children into doing what seems unimaginable for most people outside.

Today, for instance, I spoke to a 13-year-old boy whose brother had been killed while attacking an Israeli position in Gaza. And he told me repeatedly that he would like to become a martyr like his brother, as well.

I went afterwards to his mother to find out what she thought of this. And she said, "If he tried, if I knew he was going out to kill himself, attacking the Israelis," she wouldn't stop him.

So the situation -- certainly, as bad as it is, but this case of the young boy who was stopped at this Israeli checkpoint with the explosives belt has really sent shock waives through Israeli, as well as Palestinian society -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ben Wedeman, thank you. And as Ben mentioned, Palestinian experts say that the desperation driving suicide attacks among the young points to nothing less than the breakdown of Palestinian society.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. IVAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: Our environment today is an environment that glorifies martyrdom, glorifies the martyr as a symbol of power, and compares them to the father image that has been demolished by humiliation and impotence and helplessness, that the father is no more a symbol for the children to look up for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Israeli forces say that they're treating Hussam Abdo with care while holding him at least partially responsible for his actions.

O'BRIEN: The judge has a word of warning, as grand jury selection in the Michael Jackson molestation case gets underway. We'll have a live report on that.

And if you're not careful, you're going to miss your big chance to see the Fab Five. And no, we're not talking about those "Queer Eye" guys. We're talking about something celestial. There are five planets coming together for a rare stellar event. We'll show you what to look for.

And we're looking for your e-mails on this subject: should words "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance? E-mail us at LiveFrom@CNN.com. Also, there's a tape purportedly recorded by the No. 2 al Qaeda man, Ayman al-Zawahiri. We're looking at it now. We're translating it. We'll get you some more information on it as it comes in. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: As we told you just a few moments ago, the pan-Arab news station Al Jazeera is releasing a tape purportedly recorded by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the No. 2 man in al Qaeda.

You remember last week, we had reported at length about the possibility of al-Zawahiri was holed up in a cave in the mountains of Pakistan, right near the Afghan border, and that Pakistani troops were closing in on him.

That, of course, proved not to be the case. Nevertheless, the story of Ayman al Zawahiri continues.

And joining us for more on that is Octavia Nasr, who is our senior editor for Arab affairs here at CNN and CNN international. Octavia has been listening to al-Jazeera and has a sense, at least the general gist, of the tape.

What can you tell us?

OCTAVIA NASR, SENIOR EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS, CNN: Well, first of all, the big question is it Ayman al-Zawahiri? And we have no independent confirmation it is him. So if we take the word of Al Jazeera on this, it is Ayman al-Zawahiri.

They received an audiotape of him. In it, the same rhetoric, the same call for Jihad and to protect the nation of Islam and the Muslims of the world.

What's interesting here, if we want to put a time line on this tape, there is only one mention of the attacks on the border region. That's in Waziristan. He doesn't say Waziristan per se but he mentions the two different tribes of that area, and that's the Pashtun and the Beluge.

And now of course, recently, about a month ago, the Pakistanis started sort of fighting -- waging a war against the tribes in that area, because they were believed to have either the No. 1 and No. 2 of al Qaeda, but also a lot of the Taliban fighters, a lot of the al Qaeda members.

So because the Pakistani government had this feeling, and they were getting tips that, indeed, some Arabs -- they call them foreigners there -- are hiding, and the tribes are hiding them in their homes. They started to attack.

First of all, they were negotiating with the tribes, trying to get the tribes to help them and give these men up. Later, they added some pressure, especially in the last two weeks. They added pressure; they started making arrests. They started, also, conducting surprise searches.

And in a culture like that one of Afghanistan, this is very insulting. So Zawahiri, if this is Zawahiri on this tape, what he was doing on this tape is trying to appeal to their -- to their pride and say what Pakistan is doing to you is not right, and you'd better stand up and do something about it.

O'BRIEN: All right. A couple quick points. Does it sound like Zawahiri?

NASR: It does sound like him.

O'BRIEN: OK. Still need to verify that?

NASR: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: That confirmation may come, perhaps, from the U.S. government; who knows? But nevertheless, Al Jazeera in the past, these kind of things, these tapes have proven to be authentic, recorded by the individual.

NASR: Right.

O'BRIEN: All right. And another thought, you -- unclear exactly what date this might have been recorded. Because as you say no specific reference to that huge press that supposedly had surrounded him.

NASR: No, no specifics. And Zawahiri and bin Laden, for that matter, they've been very careful. They're trying to give time lines, but they're not very specific, because they don't know when these tapes are going to reach the media, when people are going to hear them.

We do know that the Pakistani forces have been closing in on that area of -- it's the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan called Waziristan. In the last few weeks. So at least we can put it there.

Actually, Jazeera interviewed a general of the Pakistani army to ask him specifically about that, and he said, you know, he puts it back to eight, nine days ago. But, again, that's pretty recent for the No. 2 man in al Qaeda.

O'BRIEN: The other thing that is specifically mentioned in this tape, purportedly by al Zawahiri, waiting for confirmation on that, is calling Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, a traitor, and urging people to overthrow him. How -- how will that play on the Arab street?

NASR: Well, these are very strong words. He called him a traitor. He also called him a Muslim killer, and again, appealing to the emotions of these tribes, telling them, you are so hospitable. You are so kind to your brothers, the Muslims.

And look at this man. What he's doing, he's turning himself into a puppet in the hands of the U.S. and its coalition. A huge attack on Pervez Musharraf. This is not the first time. He did that -- Zawahiri did that before, to the point where observers were saying anytime Zawahiri mentions a person or country, we should expect an attack in that country.

Of course, Pervez Musharraf survived two assassination attempts, and I'm not suggesting that al Qaeda was behind them. But it is something to be very careful with, and look at very closely.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's been widely linked -- those assassination attempts have been linked to al Qaeda. And we can all be the judge of that.

But it does raise an important question here. Is this, in addition to public relations, if you can call it that, is this a means of communication with those cells out there? And could we be playing into their hands by telling this story?

NASR: Yes. And observers do tell us that. And, you know, our policy -- the CNN policy is very clear on this. We do not want to be the conduit of these messages. That's why you don't hear Zawahiri on CNN air.

The -- there are messages. Obviously, like I said, observers tell us anytime Zawahiri mentions a country or a person, we should expect an attack, or an assassination attempt on the life of that person.

Yes. The message in this tape is so clear. He's telling the Pakistanis -- he's saying to the Pakistani army, I feel sorry for you because Musharraf is using you, and he's going to use you to break up his country. He's going to use you to send you to your death.

Basically, he is calling on the Pakistani army to revolt against their president. He's telling the tribes to stand up against the president. It's very interesting. There is a very clear message. It's not subtle. It's a very clear message this time through.

O'BRIEN: He is clearly baiting President Musharraf. We'll have to see how it unfolds. Octavia Nasr, thank you very much, and keep listening for us and share with us details as you derive them -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We're going to continue the discussion with our chief news executive, Eason Jordan. He just got back from the region.

You actually had time with President Musharraf, talking about al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Taliban. I guess, first of all, let's talk about the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban. Critics say he's protecting these people.

EASON JORDAN, CNN EXECUTIVE: Well, if he ever every was, Kyra, it's not happening now.

This is a very personal fight for Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, because in December, there were two attempts to assassinate him. He blames al Qaeda. He claims to know who was responsible for those attacks. Some people are in custody. He's seeking more people.

But this now has become a personal crusade for the president of Pakistan, because it's really a fight to the death. Either al Qaeda is going to kill him or, in his mind, he is going to kill al Qaeda.

Now, for the past two, three years, al Qaeda has been given essentially free run in these tribal territories bordering Afghanistan. But after these assassination attempts, suddenly, in an unprecedented way, Pakistani military forces have moved into these tribal areas and have gone -- very intensely -- after al Qaeda.

And it's clear that it's not just because it's the right thing to do, but when al Qaeda starts going after the president of Pakistan, the president of Pakistan is now going to go after al Qaeda.

PHILLIPS: Well, and you talk about that this is a passion now for President Musharraf to go after terrorists. The United States wants these players just as much -- Osama bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri, the Taliban, al Qaeda -- to be crushed. Did he talk at all about the commingling of Pakistani troops and the U.S.? At what point will he let the U.S. be more involved in his country?

JORDAN: Well, the U.S. is more involved than Pakistani officials want to admit publicly. There are U.S. forces in those tribal areas. There are Special Forces that are technical advisors. There are Predator drones flying over those areas. There's a lot of behind the scenes expertise from the U.S. being contributed in Pakistan.

But Musharraf is walking a real high wire here, because in Pakistan, there is enormous support for al Qaeda.

Recently, just a few weeks ago in a public opinion poll was conducted in Pakistan. People were asked whether they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Osama bin Laden.

Stunningly, 65 percent of the people of Pakistan said they support Osama bin Laden, and he is enemy No. 1 to both Pervez Musharraf, the president of the country, so it's a real tough spot.

PHILLIPS: What type of efforts are going forward to sort of change that mindset? Is he developing any type of programs or schooling or trying to make drastic changes so that stereotype -- or that, I guess, the mindset is broken?

JORDAN: Well, he's out there, trying to convince the people of Pakistan to do the right thing, but it's tough. And a lot of people, when they voice support for Osama bin Laden, it's not so much supporting bin Laden, but voicing opposition to the United States and what a lot of what Pakistanis view as imperialist policies in that part of the world and elsewhere in the Middle East.

But President Musharraf recently went to Peshawar, which is the capital of these border territories, and met with all the tribal chiefs and pushed very, very hard, the tribal chiefs, to join him in the fight against al Qaeda. And he claims that everyone in attendance, and all the tribal chiefs were there, rallied around him and said that they would join him to try to track down bin Laden, Zawahiri, in these territories, and the entire al Qaeda leadership.

And I should point out, until recently, Musharraf insisted vehemently that the al Qaeda leadership was not in Pakistan. Now he freely admits that there's a possibility that they are there.

PHILLIPS: Eason Jordan, thank you.

We continue to follow this story. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The president of the United States in New Hampshire today, there to talk about the economy. But in Nashua, before getting to matters relating to jobs and tax cuts and the like, he talked briefly about the hearings we saw all unfold these past two days in Washington, specifically, the testimony of Richard Clarke, specifically the testimony of Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism boss inside the Bush administration.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: Commission going on in Washington, D.C., it's a very important commission.

It's a commission determined to look at the eight months of my administration and the eight years of the previous administration, to determine what we can learn. What we can do to make sure we uphold our solemn duty.

Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to strike America, to attack us, I would have used every resource, every asset, every power, of this government to protect the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: In about 30 minutes, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, will hold a briefing at the Pentagon, along with the joint chiefs chairman General Richard Myers. Sure to be more talk on this subject there. And we, of course, will bring it to you live. It begins at 2 p.m. Eastern time.

Standing down in New York harbor. The Statue of Liberty, which has been closed to visitors since the 9/11 terror attacks, will be reopened shortly a national park official told Congress today. Security, health, and safety enhancements at the site are being helped by a $7 million contribution from the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island Foundation.

PHILLIPS: Well, if you're like millions of other Americans, chances are, you're on some kind of low carb diet. You're probably looking at -- a lot closer at the labels these days, too.

But can you believe everything you read? Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESONDENT: Looking for low carb labels? Sure. But is that what you're really getting? Maybe not.

You see, the FDA defined reduced fat and low calorie a long time ago, but as of now, there are no set guidelines for carbohydrate labels.

Diet or no diet, carbohydrates are important. The American Dietetic Association says you need at least 130 grams a day for proper brain function.

Whereas low carb supporter say 40 to 60 grams is enough to feel good and lose weight, provided you take certain supplements to make up for the carb reductions.

But all those labels and that advice can be confusing. So here's a tip: use net carbs to keep track. Net carbs are calculated by taking the total number of carbs and subtracting sugar alcohols and good carbs such as fiber.

DR. STUART TRAGER, ATKINS PHYSICIANS COUNCIL: Clearly, a term like net carb that gives a value that people can compare.

O'BRIEN: For the time being, however, you're not going to fine net carb labels on many food products. So in the interim, food manufacturers and consumer groups have asked the FDA for a standard.

Six grams per serving for an item to be called low carb. And at least 25 percent fewer carbs than the original for the reduced label.

Remember, products like breads, pastas, and chips are made low carb by increasing fiber content and sugar alcohols. If you feel like you're cheating you are, a little bit. They're not meant to replace eating good carbs, such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.

TRAGER: It's about making better food choices in general. The products are useful in helping people stick to a lifestyle that otherwise may be challenging.

GUPTA: Challenging. Well, that's a description for any diet, low carb, or not.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And we want to let you know, coming after the break, we will go live to Islamabad. Our Nic Robertson gauging reaction on this audiotape released by Al Jazeera television with the voice of al Qaeda's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri. We'll have that right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Is this the voice of al Qaeda's No. 2, Osama bin Laden's mentor and teacher, al-Zawahiri?

Nic Robertson gauging reaction now, live from Islamabad.

Nic, what's the word?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, it's likely that this statement by Ayman al-Zawahiri, if it does prove to be him, will strike some chords here.

We have seen as this Pakistani government military operation in the border area of Waziristan has dragged on, we have seen civilian casualties.

But as it has dragged on over a week now, we've seen an increasing number of protests around the country. Not only in the tribal region, not only in the northwest frontier province, not only in towns near Waziristan, but also as far away as the southern port city of Karachi.

Clearly, Ayman al-Zawahiri's message that people should rise up against Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf is something -- the conflict that the battle in Waziristan by Pakistani forces to catch al Qaeda members and the foreign fighters they believe are there, has already -- it will, likely, strike a chord, because already, there is a level of resentment.

Just two days ago, rockets were fired at a government building in Peshawar, a frontier town close to the Afghan border. The interior minister here at that time said that he thought that was a tribal backlash.

So it is a little late in the evening here, Kyra, to get official reaction, although we are trying to track that down from Pakistani government officials.

But the feeling that's been generate generated over the last week or so by the government's reaction in Waziristan is likely to -- is likely to, certainly, rally people to Ayman al-Zawahiri's court.

PHILLIPS: And Nic, you'll remember, last week, we had breaking news coverage when Pakistani troops had converged on the area there on the Afghan/Pakistan border, President Pervez Musharraf coming forward, saying there was a high value target in that area.

We started talking about the fact that it could be Ayman al- Zawahiri. We couldn't confirm it. We could confirm it. It was a mismatch of information.

Now you have this audiotape, something that wasn't sent in by the mail or delivered. This was a face-to-face interview. Is this pretty much securing the fact that al Qaeda's No. 2 is alive and well? ROBERTSON: It's very difficult to say for sure. That -- the audiotape -- the message on the audiotape that calls for people to rise up against President Musharraf, that is not a new message from Ayman al-Zawahiri.

What needs to be determined is whether or not this message was recorded in the last week or so. The reference is made to the government crackdown in the tribal regions. Now we know President Musharraf's troops have been increasingly putting pressure in the tribal regions, on tribal elements there, over the last few months. So it's not clear if that message has been recorded recently.

What we do -- what we have learned from government officials here, much more clearly than we knew a week ago, in the last couple of days, the interior minister said that there was no concrete evidence, no concrete reason to believe that Ayman al-Zawahiri was ever in that area.

And it does seem, through a network of tunnels that were in that area that any high value target hiding out in that area, whoever it may be -- Pakistani government has said could have been Chechens, could have been an Uzbek militia commander. It seems very likely at this time, whoever those high value targets were, they may have escaped.

The government here, though, is still negotiating with holdout tribal members and other people they're calling foreign fighters still holding out in that area. The battle is still far from over. It's in a period of negotiation just now -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic, at any point on this audiotape do you know if al- Zawahiri mentioned anything about that standoff last week with Pakistani troops?

ROBERTSON: In the specific -- there were no specific references that I have heard yet.

Now, we continue to analyze that tape. We continue to try and seek input from Pakistani officials here to see what they think they might have heard, and if there are any clues that they can pick up on that would indicate to them that, indeed, it was recorded inside the last week or so.

Now, when that battle began, it was quite intense, artillery barrages, helicopters brought in, rocket fire on the compounds. It's really slowed down a lot now.

Now it's in a period of negotiation. But this protracted negotiation is what's bringing problems for the Pakistani government.

People have seen -- in their newspapers here, they've seen it on television. They've seen pictures of civilians who have been injured, even outside of those tribal regions that have typically been incredibly independent from Pakistani's government. Indeed, described as no-go areas. Even outside of there, in cities like Islamabad, well-educated populations, there is a feeling of support for the people there, that their tribal culture of independence should be respected. And that is something, as well, that the Pakistani government will be thinking about as Ayman al-Zawahiri raises -- tries to raise the temperature against President Musharraf at this time.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson, live from Islamabad. Thanks, Nic.

If you're just tuning in, we're going to continue following this breaking news coverage. A newly released audiotape message attributed to al Qaeda's No. 2. We're following this coverage, bringing you the translations. More after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Grand jury selection scheduled to start today in Santa Barbara, California, and the child molestation case against Michael Jackson could be on the docket.

The proceeding comes with a stern legal warning aimed at protecting potential grand jurors, expected to hear the high-profile case.

Our Miguel Marquez explains.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, it's not just affecting grand jurors, it's affecting the media, as well.

The point of that decorum order, as the judge put it, is to keep the media from making these normally secret grand jury proceedings unsecret. So he's trying to preserve the secretness of grand jury proceedings.

CNN has confirmed that the 19 jurors who are seated for this criminal grand jury could begin hearing information and evidence on the Jackson case as soon as Monday.

We also have learned that District Attorney Tom Sneddon could present evidence in the Jackson case to those 19 members of the grand jury for as long as four weeks, two to four weeks.

At the end of that process, presumably, Mr. Sneddon will ask jurors to indict Jackson on charges of child molestation and administering an intoxicating agent to a minor. Twelve of the 19 jurors must vote to indict on each and every count.

So what evidence is the grand jury likely to hear? You know, there's no judge in these proceedings typically. It's the D.A.'s show alone.

The question has been raised about the evidence from Jackson's 1939 molestation case, which was settled out of court. And whether or not evidence from it could be used in the current proceeding.

A retired formal grand jury supervisor from L.A. County tells CNN just what sort of testimony in evidence could be in this proceeding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GUTHMAN, FORMER LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY SUPERVISOR: Transcripts of prior testimony would only in rare instances, be admissible in an indictment proceeding.

MARQUEZ: But those witnesses themselves could be compelled to testify?

GUTHMAN: That's what a subpoena is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now, the district attorney must also present evidence that could exonerate Mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson's lawyers would not be present during any point in these proceedings.

Mr. Jackson has been invited to testify but has not been subpoenaed. It is unlikely that he would take, according to legal experts, that he would take District Attorney Tom Sneddon up on that invitation to testify.

If and when the grand jury comes back with an indictment, that indictment, then, would supersede the criminal indictment that we've been dealing with since Mr. Jackson was arrested and then arraigned in January -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Miguel Marquez, thank you very much.

We're going to take a break. When we return, we'll tell you about the Fab Five. And we're talking celestial Fab Five. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Kyra Phillips, a little bleary eyed today. She was up all night, looking at the stars. She's just wowed by the Fab Five. Actually, what we're talking about here is a rare alignment of five planets in our own solar system.

Excited?

PHILLIPS: I am so thrilled right now. As I draw you pictures.

O'BRIEN: I'm No. 1. All right.

Let's check in with one of our favorite space experts, who happens to spend a little bit of time looking at the stars, when he's not writing fabulous books about the Apollo program and other things.

Andy Chaiken, author of "A Man on the Moon" and perhaps most important for this segment, lives in Vermont, where the sky is very dark, because that's important.

PHILLIPS: No pollution. O'BRIEN: No pollution, light or otherwise. Andy, good to hear your voice.

ANDY CHAIKEN, AUTHOR, "A MAN ON THE MOON": Hello, Miles. Hello, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Hi, Andy.

O'BRIEN: First of all, let's look -- This is a picture that Andy shot. When did you take this picture, Andy?

CHAIKEN: Well, I hope you're talking about the one on the left because the one on the right was taken by a space probe.

O'BRIEN: No, no, no. That was Galileo. Here's your picture and we're going to zoom in on it.

Well, he did the best he could with his little digital camera.

CHAIKEN: That would be -- that would be amazing. No, this is a mosaic of pictures that I shot just three days ago on the 22nd, from right outside my house. In fact, you can see part of my house on the lower right.

PHILLIPS: That's a nice house.

O'BRIEN: The house there, it's very Vermonty.

CHAIKEN: Very Vermonty, yes.

O'BRIEN: So upper left is which planet?

CHAIKEN: Well, you can see right above the house, if you zoom in right above the window, you can see Venus...

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKEN: ... which is very, very bright right now in the southwestern sky. Now, if I'd gone out earlier, I would have caught Mercury, as well. That's the other planet that's

O'BRIEN: Mercury -- Mercury is sort of not seen here. We'll put Mercury off there somewhere, right?

CHAIKEN: Mercury is not visible but not forgotten. And then to the upper left is Venus. I wish we could zoom in a little bit.

O'BRIEN: We're zooming in right now.

CHAIKEN: Zooming in. Now you can see Venus on the lower right.

O'BRIEN: There's Venus, right? This is Mars, right?

CHAIKEN: And Mars and then...

O'BRIEN: There's Saturn. CHAIKEN: ... to the upper left of that is Saturn.

O'BRIEN: OK.

CHAIKEN: And if you go way -- yes if you go way over to the left...

O'BRIEN: I'm going to go over to the left. Stay with me.

CHAIKEN: ... you see Jupiter.

O'BRIEN: Hang on. We're going to get to Jupiter right now. They show Jupiter. And here, folks, is Jupiter over there.

CHAIKEN: That's four out of the Fab Five. And this is a rare thing. In other words, people should go out now. It's going to be like this until the beginning of April.

Go out at dusk, at sunset, and you'll see all five: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. And I shot these pictures a little after sunset, like 8 p.m. at night. But right through the first days of April, you'll be able to see this.

And now is the time to look, because the next time all five planets will be in one sky will not be until the year 2016. You'll have to get up before sunrise to do that. And then again, in sunset, after sunset, in the year 2036.

O'BRIEN: All right, now this is a little family portrait of our solar system. These are images that Andy wasn't able to acquire.

PHILLIPS: That's from my school textbook.

CHAIKEN: I think the thing about this is, you notice I took these pictures without a telescope, just with a digital camera, and this is something that anybody can enjoy without a telescope and see the neighboring worlds of our solar system and make a little exploration of their own into this fabulous universe that we live in.

O'BRIEN: I threw in this Opportunity shot just because I like it. It shows the crater where Opportunity has been, just to give you a little sense of Mars up close and personal.

And then finally, here's a little diagram for you. And we'll try to walk you through this as quickly as we can.

All right. Over here will be Jupiter in the sky.

CHAIKEN: That is at dusk.

O'BRIEN: And this is Saturn, and this is just after sunset, right? And Mars over here. That's Venus, and then finally, the lower...

CHAIKEN: ... and then Mercury is much dimmer but just above the western horizon. You're right when you show the pictures of the space probes and Opportunity on Mars. When we look at these worlds, these are worlds that we are exploring.

In fact, the Cassini probe is heading for orbit around Saturn this summer. That's a very exciting mission.

So when we look up at these planets we're looking at worlds that are not only in the sky for us to admire but also to explore and to unfold with all of the -- the knowledge of our solar system.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quick as you can say Celestron, Andy Chaiken has once again excited Kyra Phillips on the prospects of looking at the stars.

Thank you, Andy.

PHILLIPS: He's so cute.

CHAIKEN: Thank you, Miles, and, Kyra, you should take a look.

PHILLIPS: I promise. I promise I will. I'll go to his house and check them out.

O'BRIEN: She's lying. She's lying.

PHILLIPS: All right. Coming up in the next hour of LIVE FROM, we do expect to hear shortly from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a live Pentagon briefing. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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