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Grand Jury Considers Michael Jackson Charges; Interview With Leslie, Leigh Keno
Aired April 02, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MURKOWSKI: ...as a state. It's our - it's our - out three-mile limit. And we can do it and do it right and contribute to the job growth of this country.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: How soon will the drilling begin?
MURKOWSKI: Well, we have to put it up for sale, a competitive lease sale, and we will do that this October. And then we'll have an idea to what extent the oil industry is interested in development.
O'BRIEN: Governor Frank Murkowski, the state of Alaska, thank you very much for being with us.
MURKOWSK: You bet. Bye bye.
O'BRIEN: The hour's top stories are just ahead, after a break. Plus, live to California for a hearing on the Michael Jackson case.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien, and this is LIVE FROM.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's what's happening this half-hour.
A hearing in public while a grand jury meets in secret to decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial. We're going to have the latest.
O'BRIEN: What's a year in Iraq really like for National Guard troops? We profile one unit as its tour of duty comes to an end.
PHILLIPS: And if you're buying an antique, there's a crucial question -- is it real or fake? We'll get some answers on how to tell from antique experts the Keno brothers.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) months of arguments and 12 days of jury deliberations, the corruption trial of former Tyco CEO Dennis Kozlowski and former CFO Mark Swartz has ended in a mistrial. It's believed a single juror was holding out for acquittal. Kozlowski and Swartz are accused of bilking Tyco of $600 million. They're likely to be retried.
U.S. Payrolls grew by 308,000 jobs last month. That's the fastest pace in nearly four years. President Bush says it's proof the economy is getting stronger. However, economists caution that one month does not indicate a trend.
Summer security concerns. The FBI and Department of Homeland Security are sending a message of concern about a possible terrorism threat against commercial transportation systems. They have notified police across the country that bus and rail services in major U.S. cities could be targeted this summer. They suppress, however, that the new intelligence is uncorroborated.
A terror attack averted in Spain, a bomb found today under a high-speed rail track appears to be the same type used in the March 11 terror attack. That's according to Spain's interior minister. A railway employee found that bomb and several authorities diffused it.
O'BRIEN: Now to the molestation case against Michael Jackson; a grand jury meets in secret trying to decide if the star should stand trial, while a pre-trial hearing takes place in open court.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is live now from Santa Maria, California, with details on all this -- Miguel
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you can sort of imagine, it's two different trains headed down two different tracks.
The train that we're on today is this hearing here. Maybe the most significant thing to happen today is that they set another date, April 30. That's -- the date significant because if that other train, the grand jury process -- if that grand jury comes to an indictment before that time, it is very likely or quite likely that Mr. Jackson could reappear here to be arraigned on those new charges brought by the grand jury.
And his lawyers, being very cognizant of that today, brought up the fact that they have not received the unredacted, or clean copies, of the search warrants. There's been 18 in all in this case that we know of so far, and they want those search warrants so that they can present exculpatory information to that grand jury.
They do say that they have put together a briefing book for each grand juror containing 100 items of exculpatory information for those grand jurors that they would like to -- the prosecutor to present to the present to the grand jurors.
Benjamin Brafman, one of Mr. Jackson's lawyers, gave us an idea of just how concerned they are about the process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, JACKSON ATTORNEY: I wish I could, and I think you all know we are under a gag order, and I think what we said in the courtroom is what you can certainly report, and the objective was and is and will continue to be that we try and keep a level playing field. And I think beyond that, we would be in danger of violating the gag order and we have, I think, a fair judge who we don't want to anger or alienate. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZE: Now, one other interesting thing in court today is that Tom Sneddon, the Santa Barbara district attorney, was not in court today. Apparently he is attending to the grand jury about 100 miles - about an hour south of here in Santa Barbara, California.
There was one witness who was -- that we know of that was heard from today. That witness's identity was shielded by sun visors. They brought them in, in a van today. So we know that the grand jury is working today.
One other thing that happened up in court today here is that a lawyer representing someone who was subpoenaed by the grand jury had two boxes of documents, medical and psychiatric records of the accuser, his family, school records of the accuser and his siblings and some documents from Mr. Jackson's 1993 molestation case that the judge ordered turned over to the defense lawyers.
Mr. Jackson, of course, is three time zones away in the nation's capital. He was receiving an award there last night. And it is possible the next time we could see him in court, though, is April 30, in about 30 days - Miles.
O'BRIEN: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: So, need a new place to dine out? Take a look at this. Golden Arches going first class.
O'BRIEN: And the Keno brothers are kind of neat-o - neat-o, Keno - you don't get it? The antique experts with some tips on knowing the real thing from a knock-off. Just like Kyra. She's the real thing.
PHILLIPS: Are you the knock off?
O'BRIEN: Oh, man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it?
LESLIE KENO, ANTIQUE APPRAISER: Yes, Jen, this is the piece that Leigh and I saw pictures of, and we were hoping and praying it's the real McCoy. I mean, I'm just hoping and praying.
LEIGH KENO, ANTIQUE APPRAISER: Yes, we looked at those digitals, and said, Is it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right, it's a crucial question for any antiques buyer: Am I getting the real deal or a big fat fake?
To answer that question, we turn to our favorite experts, the Keno brothers, Leigh and Leslie. They host their own PBS show called "Find." They're joining us from our New York studio.
Hi, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Tell us about what we're seeing on tape.
LESLIE KENO: Well, Leigh and I saw that low boy, Jen's low boy, and we were hoping and praying that that was the real McCoy, an original Queen Anne low boy. If it had been, it would have been worth about $50,000 to $80,000. That's great (ph).
PHILLIPS: Now tell me how you knew this wasn't the real deal. The bottom part was real, right?
LESLIE KENO: Well, we got underneath and the holes in the -- for the screw-hole pockets in the side did not match the top. The back edge was razor sharp. It didn't have the wear patterns you'd expect in an 18th century Queen Anne low boy. So it was a replaced top basically.
It was - value, we had to break the news. And -- we didn't like - we don't like to do that. But we had to do it. It was about $4,000.
LEIGH KENO: $4,000. That was..
LESLIE KENO: We hated telling her that.
LESLIE KENO: But we brought here into the studio an original 18th century Chippendale walnut low boy made in Philadelphia.
And this low boy has its original top. And because of that, this one's probably worth -- what, Leigh? - in the range of, you know...
LEIGH KENO: Probably worth about $85,000.
LESLIE KENO: $85,000.
PHILLIPS: You'd better hope our floor director doesn't run off with that when you're finished.
LESLIE KENO: This one has wonderful original tool marks underneath and all of the evidence of attachment of the top to the case....
LEIGH KENO: That's right.
LESLIE KENO: Is there, right?
LEIGH KENO: That's right.
PHILLIPS: So Leigh, how do you know the difference between a reproduction and a fake?
LEIGH KENO: Well, Kyra, a reproduction is a piece that's just made to simulate another piece. It's just a copy of something. It's not meant to deceive.
A fake was something that someone spent time on and really made that piece to fool someone. So that's a fake.
PHILLIPS: So a fake looks newer?
LEIGH KENO: A fake can look pretty old. The point of a faker -- the point a faker tries to make is to make that piece really, really look convincing. But they usually make a mistake somewhere along the way.
LESLIE KENO: Yes.
LEIGH KENO: And that's why we brought two here, two original pieces, two authentic pieces, so you can take a look at what to look for if you're out there and you're wondering whether or not it's a real piece.
And this is a card table, a federal card table from Rhode Island, probably Providence area.
PHILLIPS: This is the reproduction of the card table. How did you know this was a reproduction?
LEIGH KENO: That piece had machine tool marks underneath and had it no wear patterns, right? I remember looking at it. It was crisp (ph), right? It didn't feel like an antique.
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: It was just -- it was basically a reproduction, not a fake.
PHILLIPS: You can tell from the feel?
LEIGH KENO: Oh, yes, you can...
LESLIE KENO: Absolutely.
LEIGH KENO: It's like Braille. OK, you can close your eyes and feel - OK, fake or real, you know? And this was actually, again, not a fake, a reproduction.
LESLIE KENO: Just a reproduction.
LEIGH KENO: Worth a few hundred dollars?
LESLIE KENO: About $200, exactly.
PHILLIPS: Oh, my gosh. Now if it would have been real, like the one we're going to see now in the studio, how much is the real one worth versus the $200 one?
LEIGH KENO: Well, that particular table that Tom had would have been worth probably $40,000 or $50,000 because it was a Chippendale...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: ...serpentine-front table.
This table is a Newport, Rhode Island, federal inlaid card table with veneer in this wonderful inlay, lightwood inlay. And the way we see that this is authentic, just looking from the outside initially, is we look at this wonderful depth of color here. You see some losses to this ebony veneer on the edge. So it's natural usage. I mean, if you're going to be almost 200 years old, you're going to have some losses.
And down here, the quality of the inlay...
LESLIE KENO: The shrinkage.
LEIGH KENO: ... the shrinkage of the inlay within the wood, the quality of this mahogany, you can't get mahogany like that anymore. This is an authentic, 1800 or so, Rhode Island table worth about $50,000. This table.
LESLIE KENO: Now, the second thing you want to for is to make sure the tool technology makes sense. And we're going to pull out the drawer.
You want to make sure that the tools used -- and you can see these dovetails, which are cut from the side, that join the drawer sides to front, hand cut with hand tools. Those make sense. They're 1760.
These pine drawer bottoms, the right secondary wood, feel those bumps. This is done with a plan.
And finally...
LEIGH KENO: All by hand.
LESLIE KENO: All by hand. And here are the right nails, right, Leigh?
LEIGH KENO: Well, the right nails, here, being rosehead nails, wonderful -- named after like an open rose. They have a rough outside, And these are, as Les says, mid-18th century nails. So we know - you know, although fakers sometimes use these old nails...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: These nails have been in there since the guy hammered them in...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: ...in 1750.
PHILLIPS: So how much would a rosehead nail be worth?
LESLIE KENO: You know, I've seen cans of them sold and they bring kind of 5 to 25 cents each.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LESLIE KENO: You know where people get them are old burned down buildings that sadly burn down. The nails, of course, don't. And people find them in the ruins.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Thanks for the advice.
LEIGH KENO: Thank you.
LESLIE KENO: Thanks for having us.
PHILLIPS: Yes. How to pick out the reproduction versus the fake. Thanks so much, guys.
LEIGH KENO: You're welcome.
PHILLIPS: All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: March Madness has come down to the Final Four. The best teams in college basketball arrived in San Antonio, Texas, today. Duke, the No. 1 seed to make it, takes on Connecticut on Saturday. Georgia Tech will face Oklahoma State.
Only two teams will make it to the ultimate big dance.
Miles, you're up, baby.
O'BRIEN: Oh. Well, how about I start talking then?
LeBron James, take your basketball and step aside because there's much ado about something. A new phenom is driving quite a sports craze and this one is years away from getting his driver's license. Fourteen-year-old Freddy Adu is about to become America's youngest player in a pro sport in more than 100 years. Even before he graduates high school next month he's going to make $500,000 for playing for D.C. United and another million bucks for a shoe endorsement. Man. Get this -- when he was only 10 years old, he turned down a contract worth three-quarters of a million dollars to play for an Italian team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDDY ADU, SOCCER PHENOM: I was so excited, you know? I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know? And at the time we didn't have anything. My mom had to work two jobs. And I'm like, you have to take this, you know, But I was too young. Obviously, I was all like - I see only $750,000, my eyes got wide open.
But my mom made the right choice. She said I was too young to go to a country where I didn't speak the language. She wanted me to get a better education. That's why we came to this country and she stuck to it. She stuck to it. And to be able to do that under that kind of circumstances, my mom is -- she's an angel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Wow. Now, that, I hope he bottles that.
PHILLIPS: There you go. And doesn't let anything affect him.
O'BRIEN: And doesn't - doesn't change over the years, because that was the real deal.
PHILLIPS: That's a class act.
O'BRIEN: That's a class act.
By the way, Adu's debut tomorrow in a major league soccer game is sold out almost. That's a rarity in a league that has struggled for a large fan base in this country.
PHILLIPS: Maybe he'll come talk to us on Monday.
O'BRIEN: Let's ask him. It's just a phone call.
PHILLIPS: Fred's just a phone call.
O'BRIEN: Just a phone call.
PHILLIPS: Come on, Freddy, call us in.
(MARKET UPDATE)
O'BRIEN: In San Diego, California, home of Kyra Phillips and also home of the late Ray Kroc, McDonald's founder, not sure everyday Mickey D's here. Look at this bistro stuff. No siree, bob. Gone are the plastic tables and the chairs. In, cushy upholstered sofas, artsy lithographs -- that's artwork, Kyra -- and potted plants. And even a $60,000 -- not seen here -- grand piano. That's obviously paninis there. Wow. Not to worry, even if it's now casual chic and you get the paninis, you can still get two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
PHILLIPS: With a litho thrown in. You're just jealous that I have lithos and you don't.
O'BRIEN: What would Ray Kroc think is what I have to ask, at this point.
PHILLIPS: Probably his own lithos.
All right. You need help interpreting your dreams? Maybe a mystery man keeps showing up or you're about to fall asleep, fall off a ledge. The dream doctor will be here to tell you if you're whacko or not.
O'BRIEN: I've been accused of being asleep right here. Just a few moments ago.
A schoolboy's fight over a snack gets out of hand and now one of them faces charges.
And Wisconsin college student Audrey Seiler -- police say she kept changing her story about being abducted. Now they say it was all a hoax.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Can you imagine spending more than a year in Iraq, clearing minefields, detonating explosives and building bridges? Well, that's life for members of the Utah National Guard.
Now CNN's Walter Rodgers reports their world is about to change and no one's complaining.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present arms
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 14 57th engineers, Utah National Guard, is going home after a year in Iraq, furling their flag with the passing of the colors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present arms.
RODGERS: Replacing the Utah Guard, the 458th combat battalion, U.S. Army Reserve, Pennsylvania, new soldiers in Iraq for at least another year.
The Utah soldiers have give more than a year of their lives here trying to make good the president's promise to build a democracy in Iraq. No one is sure it will take, but now it is someone else's turn to try.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, this is living accommodations for the last year...
RODGERS: Captain Jason Reading (ph) is going home to a new son he has never seen. You get the impression he would like to forget about Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am really not taking souvenirs home. I'm taking pictures of my company, which is really about the only thing about this place I want to remember.
RODGERS: Sergeant Adam Crenshaw (ph) has been marking off the days. So anxious, he crossed out tomorrow two days early.
His best friend, Sergeant Kip Day (ph), can smell Utah's Wasatch Mountains from Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you told us we could leave in a hour, we'd be gone in a half hour.
RODGERS: Soon to be civilians again, there is the soldier's universal wish. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just love it not to have to stand in line anymore. And when we go, it seems like that's all we do is stand in line.
RODGERS: The Utah Guard is an engineering unit that cleared minefields, blew up unexploded or ordnance and built bridges -- and they never lost a soldier.
(on camera): These soldiers are leaving believing they've performed their jobs well, taking pride in their mission. They do not question the mission of those in Washington who sent them here, at least not publicly.
But none of these soldiers has any allusions about how long U.S. forces will be required in Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is going to be a long-term thing. I mean, you look at Germany and all the other places we've been in. I mean, we're in for the long haul.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say at the minimum, three to five years.
RODGERS (voice-over): So on departure day, these soldiers were happily up before the sun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We served our country, we did what we was supposed to come over here and do.
RODGERS: Everyone knows they won't really be safe until they're home in the arms of loved ones. But happiness at least is now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happiness is Baghdad in your rearview mirror.
RODGERS: Happiness is the order. Let's ride.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a good day. I know we will. Whoo!
RODGERS: Twenty-hours hours to Kuwait, back home in Utah May 1.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Let's check the latest headlines at this hour.
New York District Attorney Robert Morgantheau says he'll seek a retrial in the Tyco trial. The judge declared a mistrial just hours ago, after sources tell CNN the juror known as Juror No. 4 received a coercive letter. She's the juror who reportedly flashed an OK sign at the defense a week ago and was subsequently identified in the media. Former Tyco executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are accused of looting $600 million from the company. Targeting rail lines and buses in major U.S. cities. The FBI and the Homeland Security Department have sent a warning to law enforcement agencies all across the country. IT says terrorists may try to plant bombs in luggage and carry-on bags in major U.S. cities this summer. The warning is based on uncorroborated information.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 2, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MURKOWSKI: ...as a state. It's our - it's our - out three-mile limit. And we can do it and do it right and contribute to the job growth of this country.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: How soon will the drilling begin?
MURKOWSKI: Well, we have to put it up for sale, a competitive lease sale, and we will do that this October. And then we'll have an idea to what extent the oil industry is interested in development.
O'BRIEN: Governor Frank Murkowski, the state of Alaska, thank you very much for being with us.
MURKOWSK: You bet. Bye bye.
O'BRIEN: The hour's top stories are just ahead, after a break. Plus, live to California for a hearing on the Michael Jackson case.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien, and this is LIVE FROM.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's what's happening this half-hour.
A hearing in public while a grand jury meets in secret to decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial. We're going to have the latest.
O'BRIEN: What's a year in Iraq really like for National Guard troops? We profile one unit as its tour of duty comes to an end.
PHILLIPS: And if you're buying an antique, there's a crucial question -- is it real or fake? We'll get some answers on how to tell from antique experts the Keno brothers.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) months of arguments and 12 days of jury deliberations, the corruption trial of former Tyco CEO Dennis Kozlowski and former CFO Mark Swartz has ended in a mistrial. It's believed a single juror was holding out for acquittal. Kozlowski and Swartz are accused of bilking Tyco of $600 million. They're likely to be retried.
U.S. Payrolls grew by 308,000 jobs last month. That's the fastest pace in nearly four years. President Bush says it's proof the economy is getting stronger. However, economists caution that one month does not indicate a trend.
Summer security concerns. The FBI and Department of Homeland Security are sending a message of concern about a possible terrorism threat against commercial transportation systems. They have notified police across the country that bus and rail services in major U.S. cities could be targeted this summer. They suppress, however, that the new intelligence is uncorroborated.
A terror attack averted in Spain, a bomb found today under a high-speed rail track appears to be the same type used in the March 11 terror attack. That's according to Spain's interior minister. A railway employee found that bomb and several authorities diffused it.
O'BRIEN: Now to the molestation case against Michael Jackson; a grand jury meets in secret trying to decide if the star should stand trial, while a pre-trial hearing takes place in open court.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is live now from Santa Maria, California, with details on all this -- Miguel
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you can sort of imagine, it's two different trains headed down two different tracks.
The train that we're on today is this hearing here. Maybe the most significant thing to happen today is that they set another date, April 30. That's -- the date significant because if that other train, the grand jury process -- if that grand jury comes to an indictment before that time, it is very likely or quite likely that Mr. Jackson could reappear here to be arraigned on those new charges brought by the grand jury.
And his lawyers, being very cognizant of that today, brought up the fact that they have not received the unredacted, or clean copies, of the search warrants. There's been 18 in all in this case that we know of so far, and they want those search warrants so that they can present exculpatory information to that grand jury.
They do say that they have put together a briefing book for each grand juror containing 100 items of exculpatory information for those grand jurors that they would like to -- the prosecutor to present to the present to the grand jurors.
Benjamin Brafman, one of Mr. Jackson's lawyers, gave us an idea of just how concerned they are about the process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, JACKSON ATTORNEY: I wish I could, and I think you all know we are under a gag order, and I think what we said in the courtroom is what you can certainly report, and the objective was and is and will continue to be that we try and keep a level playing field. And I think beyond that, we would be in danger of violating the gag order and we have, I think, a fair judge who we don't want to anger or alienate. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZE: Now, one other interesting thing in court today is that Tom Sneddon, the Santa Barbara district attorney, was not in court today. Apparently he is attending to the grand jury about 100 miles - about an hour south of here in Santa Barbara, California.
There was one witness who was -- that we know of that was heard from today. That witness's identity was shielded by sun visors. They brought them in, in a van today. So we know that the grand jury is working today.
One other thing that happened up in court today here is that a lawyer representing someone who was subpoenaed by the grand jury had two boxes of documents, medical and psychiatric records of the accuser, his family, school records of the accuser and his siblings and some documents from Mr. Jackson's 1993 molestation case that the judge ordered turned over to the defense lawyers.
Mr. Jackson, of course, is three time zones away in the nation's capital. He was receiving an award there last night. And it is possible the next time we could see him in court, though, is April 30, in about 30 days - Miles.
O'BRIEN: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: So, need a new place to dine out? Take a look at this. Golden Arches going first class.
O'BRIEN: And the Keno brothers are kind of neat-o - neat-o, Keno - you don't get it? The antique experts with some tips on knowing the real thing from a knock-off. Just like Kyra. She's the real thing.
PHILLIPS: Are you the knock off?
O'BRIEN: Oh, man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it?
LESLIE KENO, ANTIQUE APPRAISER: Yes, Jen, this is the piece that Leigh and I saw pictures of, and we were hoping and praying it's the real McCoy. I mean, I'm just hoping and praying.
LEIGH KENO, ANTIQUE APPRAISER: Yes, we looked at those digitals, and said, Is it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right, it's a crucial question for any antiques buyer: Am I getting the real deal or a big fat fake?
To answer that question, we turn to our favorite experts, the Keno brothers, Leigh and Leslie. They host their own PBS show called "Find." They're joining us from our New York studio.
Hi, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Tell us about what we're seeing on tape.
LESLIE KENO: Well, Leigh and I saw that low boy, Jen's low boy, and we were hoping and praying that that was the real McCoy, an original Queen Anne low boy. If it had been, it would have been worth about $50,000 to $80,000. That's great (ph).
PHILLIPS: Now tell me how you knew this wasn't the real deal. The bottom part was real, right?
LESLIE KENO: Well, we got underneath and the holes in the -- for the screw-hole pockets in the side did not match the top. The back edge was razor sharp. It didn't have the wear patterns you'd expect in an 18th century Queen Anne low boy. So it was a replaced top basically.
It was - value, we had to break the news. And -- we didn't like - we don't like to do that. But we had to do it. It was about $4,000.
LEIGH KENO: $4,000. That was..
LESLIE KENO: We hated telling her that.
LESLIE KENO: But we brought here into the studio an original 18th century Chippendale walnut low boy made in Philadelphia.
And this low boy has its original top. And because of that, this one's probably worth -- what, Leigh? - in the range of, you know...
LEIGH KENO: Probably worth about $85,000.
LESLIE KENO: $85,000.
PHILLIPS: You'd better hope our floor director doesn't run off with that when you're finished.
LESLIE KENO: This one has wonderful original tool marks underneath and all of the evidence of attachment of the top to the case....
LEIGH KENO: That's right.
LESLIE KENO: Is there, right?
LEIGH KENO: That's right.
PHILLIPS: So Leigh, how do you know the difference between a reproduction and a fake?
LEIGH KENO: Well, Kyra, a reproduction is a piece that's just made to simulate another piece. It's just a copy of something. It's not meant to deceive.
A fake was something that someone spent time on and really made that piece to fool someone. So that's a fake.
PHILLIPS: So a fake looks newer?
LEIGH KENO: A fake can look pretty old. The point of a faker -- the point a faker tries to make is to make that piece really, really look convincing. But they usually make a mistake somewhere along the way.
LESLIE KENO: Yes.
LEIGH KENO: And that's why we brought two here, two original pieces, two authentic pieces, so you can take a look at what to look for if you're out there and you're wondering whether or not it's a real piece.
And this is a card table, a federal card table from Rhode Island, probably Providence area.
PHILLIPS: This is the reproduction of the card table. How did you know this was a reproduction?
LEIGH KENO: That piece had machine tool marks underneath and had it no wear patterns, right? I remember looking at it. It was crisp (ph), right? It didn't feel like an antique.
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: It was just -- it was basically a reproduction, not a fake.
PHILLIPS: You can tell from the feel?
LEIGH KENO: Oh, yes, you can...
LESLIE KENO: Absolutely.
LEIGH KENO: It's like Braille. OK, you can close your eyes and feel - OK, fake or real, you know? And this was actually, again, not a fake, a reproduction.
LESLIE KENO: Just a reproduction.
LEIGH KENO: Worth a few hundred dollars?
LESLIE KENO: About $200, exactly.
PHILLIPS: Oh, my gosh. Now if it would have been real, like the one we're going to see now in the studio, how much is the real one worth versus the $200 one?
LEIGH KENO: Well, that particular table that Tom had would have been worth probably $40,000 or $50,000 because it was a Chippendale...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: ...serpentine-front table.
This table is a Newport, Rhode Island, federal inlaid card table with veneer in this wonderful inlay, lightwood inlay. And the way we see that this is authentic, just looking from the outside initially, is we look at this wonderful depth of color here. You see some losses to this ebony veneer on the edge. So it's natural usage. I mean, if you're going to be almost 200 years old, you're going to have some losses.
And down here, the quality of the inlay...
LESLIE KENO: The shrinkage.
LEIGH KENO: ... the shrinkage of the inlay within the wood, the quality of this mahogany, you can't get mahogany like that anymore. This is an authentic, 1800 or so, Rhode Island table worth about $50,000. This table.
LESLIE KENO: Now, the second thing you want to for is to make sure the tool technology makes sense. And we're going to pull out the drawer.
You want to make sure that the tools used -- and you can see these dovetails, which are cut from the side, that join the drawer sides to front, hand cut with hand tools. Those make sense. They're 1760.
These pine drawer bottoms, the right secondary wood, feel those bumps. This is done with a plan.
And finally...
LEIGH KENO: All by hand.
LESLIE KENO: All by hand. And here are the right nails, right, Leigh?
LEIGH KENO: Well, the right nails, here, being rosehead nails, wonderful -- named after like an open rose. They have a rough outside, And these are, as Les says, mid-18th century nails. So we know - you know, although fakers sometimes use these old nails...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: These nails have been in there since the guy hammered them in...
LESLIE KENO: That's right.
LEIGH KENO: ...in 1750.
PHILLIPS: So how much would a rosehead nail be worth?
LESLIE KENO: You know, I've seen cans of them sold and they bring kind of 5 to 25 cents each.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LESLIE KENO: You know where people get them are old burned down buildings that sadly burn down. The nails, of course, don't. And people find them in the ruins.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Thanks for the advice.
LEIGH KENO: Thank you.
LESLIE KENO: Thanks for having us.
PHILLIPS: Yes. How to pick out the reproduction versus the fake. Thanks so much, guys.
LEIGH KENO: You're welcome.
PHILLIPS: All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: March Madness has come down to the Final Four. The best teams in college basketball arrived in San Antonio, Texas, today. Duke, the No. 1 seed to make it, takes on Connecticut on Saturday. Georgia Tech will face Oklahoma State.
Only two teams will make it to the ultimate big dance.
Miles, you're up, baby.
O'BRIEN: Oh. Well, how about I start talking then?
LeBron James, take your basketball and step aside because there's much ado about something. A new phenom is driving quite a sports craze and this one is years away from getting his driver's license. Fourteen-year-old Freddy Adu is about to become America's youngest player in a pro sport in more than 100 years. Even before he graduates high school next month he's going to make $500,000 for playing for D.C. United and another million bucks for a shoe endorsement. Man. Get this -- when he was only 10 years old, he turned down a contract worth three-quarters of a million dollars to play for an Italian team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDDY ADU, SOCCER PHENOM: I was so excited, you know? I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know? And at the time we didn't have anything. My mom had to work two jobs. And I'm like, you have to take this, you know, But I was too young. Obviously, I was all like - I see only $750,000, my eyes got wide open.
But my mom made the right choice. She said I was too young to go to a country where I didn't speak the language. She wanted me to get a better education. That's why we came to this country and she stuck to it. She stuck to it. And to be able to do that under that kind of circumstances, my mom is -- she's an angel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Wow. Now, that, I hope he bottles that.
PHILLIPS: There you go. And doesn't let anything affect him.
O'BRIEN: And doesn't - doesn't change over the years, because that was the real deal.
PHILLIPS: That's a class act.
O'BRIEN: That's a class act.
By the way, Adu's debut tomorrow in a major league soccer game is sold out almost. That's a rarity in a league that has struggled for a large fan base in this country.
PHILLIPS: Maybe he'll come talk to us on Monday.
O'BRIEN: Let's ask him. It's just a phone call.
PHILLIPS: Fred's just a phone call.
O'BRIEN: Just a phone call.
PHILLIPS: Come on, Freddy, call us in.
(MARKET UPDATE)
O'BRIEN: In San Diego, California, home of Kyra Phillips and also home of the late Ray Kroc, McDonald's founder, not sure everyday Mickey D's here. Look at this bistro stuff. No siree, bob. Gone are the plastic tables and the chairs. In, cushy upholstered sofas, artsy lithographs -- that's artwork, Kyra -- and potted plants. And even a $60,000 -- not seen here -- grand piano. That's obviously paninis there. Wow. Not to worry, even if it's now casual chic and you get the paninis, you can still get two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
PHILLIPS: With a litho thrown in. You're just jealous that I have lithos and you don't.
O'BRIEN: What would Ray Kroc think is what I have to ask, at this point.
PHILLIPS: Probably his own lithos.
All right. You need help interpreting your dreams? Maybe a mystery man keeps showing up or you're about to fall asleep, fall off a ledge. The dream doctor will be here to tell you if you're whacko or not.
O'BRIEN: I've been accused of being asleep right here. Just a few moments ago.
A schoolboy's fight over a snack gets out of hand and now one of them faces charges.
And Wisconsin college student Audrey Seiler -- police say she kept changing her story about being abducted. Now they say it was all a hoax.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Can you imagine spending more than a year in Iraq, clearing minefields, detonating explosives and building bridges? Well, that's life for members of the Utah National Guard.
Now CNN's Walter Rodgers reports their world is about to change and no one's complaining.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present arms
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 14 57th engineers, Utah National Guard, is going home after a year in Iraq, furling their flag with the passing of the colors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present arms.
RODGERS: Replacing the Utah Guard, the 458th combat battalion, U.S. Army Reserve, Pennsylvania, new soldiers in Iraq for at least another year.
The Utah soldiers have give more than a year of their lives here trying to make good the president's promise to build a democracy in Iraq. No one is sure it will take, but now it is someone else's turn to try.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, this is living accommodations for the last year...
RODGERS: Captain Jason Reading (ph) is going home to a new son he has never seen. You get the impression he would like to forget about Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am really not taking souvenirs home. I'm taking pictures of my company, which is really about the only thing about this place I want to remember.
RODGERS: Sergeant Adam Crenshaw (ph) has been marking off the days. So anxious, he crossed out tomorrow two days early.
His best friend, Sergeant Kip Day (ph), can smell Utah's Wasatch Mountains from Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you told us we could leave in a hour, we'd be gone in a half hour.
RODGERS: Soon to be civilians again, there is the soldier's universal wish. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just love it not to have to stand in line anymore. And when we go, it seems like that's all we do is stand in line.
RODGERS: The Utah Guard is an engineering unit that cleared minefields, blew up unexploded or ordnance and built bridges -- and they never lost a soldier.
(on camera): These soldiers are leaving believing they've performed their jobs well, taking pride in their mission. They do not question the mission of those in Washington who sent them here, at least not publicly.
But none of these soldiers has any allusions about how long U.S. forces will be required in Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is going to be a long-term thing. I mean, you look at Germany and all the other places we've been in. I mean, we're in for the long haul.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say at the minimum, three to five years.
RODGERS (voice-over): So on departure day, these soldiers were happily up before the sun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We served our country, we did what we was supposed to come over here and do.
RODGERS: Everyone knows they won't really be safe until they're home in the arms of loved ones. But happiness at least is now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happiness is Baghdad in your rearview mirror.
RODGERS: Happiness is the order. Let's ride.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a good day. I know we will. Whoo!
RODGERS: Twenty-hours hours to Kuwait, back home in Utah May 1.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Let's check the latest headlines at this hour.
New York District Attorney Robert Morgantheau says he'll seek a retrial in the Tyco trial. The judge declared a mistrial just hours ago, after sources tell CNN the juror known as Juror No. 4 received a coercive letter. She's the juror who reportedly flashed an OK sign at the defense a week ago and was subsequently identified in the media. Former Tyco executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are accused of looting $600 million from the company. Targeting rail lines and buses in major U.S. cities. The FBI and the Homeland Security Department have sent a warning to law enforcement agencies all across the country. IT says terrorists may try to plant bombs in luggage and carry-on bags in major U.S. cities this summer. The warning is based on uncorroborated information.
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