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Live From...
'Superspy' Comes Out of Shadows to Testify to 9/11 Panel
Aired April 14, 2004 - 13:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: No matter how hard we worked, or how desperately we tried, it was not enough. The victims and the families of 9/11 deserve better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Top spy in the hot seat. Ahead this hour, the FBI director faces a 9/11 Commission critical of his agency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called him one day and I was like, hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: About face in Iraq. U.S. forces heading for home are ordered back into battle.
President Bush taking reporters' questions again. Today's topic, the Middle East. What might be surprising is what he's not talking about.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
We begin with the post-9/11 FBI. We're about 30 minutes away from two hours of testimony by FBI Director Robert Mueller before the 9/11 panel on Capitol Hill. At issue, lessons learned in light of what the commission says were deep and varied shortcomings in the bureau's culture and capabilities. CNN's Bob Franken, a fly on the wall in the committee room.
Hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello. And we are awaiting the staff report, the staff report outlines in advance what the staff of the commission believes about the upcoming witnesses.
In this particular case, the witness is Robert Mueller. The staff is going to say that he has made genuine efforts to improve the FBI, but there's a long way to go. We're expecting that Mueller's testimony will reinforce that point of view. He's following morning testimony that was devoted to the intelligence community, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency. George Tenet, who is the director of the agency, also said that things have gotten better in the CIA, but it is going to take five years before the intelligence community can really be up to speed. One committee member, the chairman, Thomas Kean, said that five years may be too long.
Now we want to depart from the leaders of the agency. I want you to see something that is historic, a person who is historic. His name is James Pavitt. You've probably have never heard his name. You can almost certainly know that you have never seen his face. It is the first time that any deputy director of operations for the Central Intelligence Agency, the person who is called the superspy, the superspook, it's the first time any has ever testified publicly.
And Pavitt, who is right in the middle of trying to clean up things, says that although they are making improvements, he can't make any promises.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES PAVITT, DEP. OPERATIONS DIR., CIA: I would like to promise this commission, I'd like to promise the people who are listening to what we're saying today, that I have now in place, because of a largesse of Congress or the largesse of the executive, I have in place what's necessary to stop this from happening again. I can't say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now as I said, Kyra, you are seeing somebody who has never been seen before on television in an environment like this, never been seen in public testimony. He's saying the same thing that the more public figures are saying. They're trying to make progress. But still we're quite vulnerable around the world to a terrorist attack -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: There's been a lot of talk about certain individuals being well coached before going before the 9/11 Commission. Taking a look at Pavitt, the fact that this has never happened before, what are you hearing, Bob? Was he coached or did he just speak from the heart?
FRANKEN: I think he is the coach. This is the man who runs the most sensitive parts of the intelligence community. There's a long tradition of these people. They make movies about these people. This was not a movie.
PHILLIPS: Bob Franken following the 9/11 Commission. We'll check with you later. Thanks, Bob.
Once again FBI Director Robert Mueller at the 9/11 Commission at the bottom of the hour. CNN will bring you his testimony live.
At the White House today, a united front on a highly divisive issue. As you saw here in the first hour of LIVE FROM..., President Bush described as historic and courageous Israeli plans to pull out of Gaza and much but not all of the West Bank. Palestinians say it is a dangerous gambit. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has the details -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, just moments ago President Bush announced that he was endorsing Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan, that is for Israel to pull out of Gaza and a small portion of the West Bank.
There were some conditions, however to leave the talks open between Israelis and Palestinians to create two independent states to follow the road map in that sense, also to lead a final status talks up in the open. That being the dispute over the West Bank Israeli border. Now really what is this is for Sharon, it is a move to create the security buffer. It's an acknowledgment by the Bush administration that the road map talks needed a jump start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That the prime minister has made the decision to dismantle some settlements. In other words, he is beginning to implement a vision that allows for contiguous territory so that a Palestinian state can emerge. This is an important step today. It accelerates the process. I view it as creating an opportunity, an opportunity for those of you who believe that a Palestinian state should emerge, a peaceful Palestinian state to work to put a framework for such a state to exist, so that the institutions of such state are bigger than the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, one critical item here, perhaps even more important to the Palestinians is the right of return for Palestinian refugees. President Bush saying that if they would be allowed to return to a future the state of Palestine and not Israel, and hat is important for a lot of Palestinians, because they believe that they would be denied voting rights and citizenship in Israel. And that for some -- for many Palestinians they believe is their homeland -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, live from the White House, thank you.
Explosions echo through Iraq and the surging insurgency is bad news for U.S. troops looking to come home. A rocket struck the Sheraton Hotel in Baghdad today, breaking windows and shaking up the place. No casualties reported. A second rocket that didn't explode was found on the street three miles away. A mortar was fired but it didn't cause any damage.
Coalition forces are tightening their hold around the Shiite city of Najaf. Rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is holed up there. He's backing off his conditions for talks with the coalition if Iraq's top Shiite Muslim body agrees. Talks could avert an all out confrontation with U.S. troops who have orders to capture or kill him.
The heightened violence in Iraq means the Pentagon is expected to extend deployment orders for some 20,000 U.S. troops. Most are from the 1st Armored Division. They're likely to remain in Iraq another three months. Amid the turmoil the United Nations envoy is optimistic about a new caretaker government for Iraq. Lakhdar Brahimi said he's confident it can be set up by the June 30 handover date and he's outlining his vision of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAKHDAR BRAHIMI, U.N. ENVOY: We see it as a government led by a prime minister and comprising Iraqi men and women known for their honesty, integrity and competence. There will also be a president to act as head of state and two vice presidents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Brahimi adds that security in Iraq will have to improve greatly before scheduled elections can take place next January.
Other news across America begins on a somber note in Wisconsin. Memorial services scheduled today for Specialist Michelle Witmer. She is a National Guard MP that was killed in Iraq on Friday. Her twin sister and here older sister both now on ,leave facing a heart- wrenching decision whether to return to the war zone or stay home.
In California, an incredible survivor story. Ruby Bustamante survived 10 days in a ravine after a car crash killed her mother. The five-year-old was spotted by workers repairing a guardrail and she was rescued. Police believe she lived on uncooked noodles and Gatorade. The girl is in stable condition at a local hospital.
New allegations against Michael Jackson, Los Angeles police investigating new claims of child abuse from the 1980s. Jackson's publicist issued a statement saying we believe that the smear campaign is driven by money hungry lawyers seeking to capitalize on Mr. Jackson's current legal situation.
PHILLIPS: President Bush taking his message to America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: There is no question this has been a tough series of weeks for the American people. It has been really tough for the families. I understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Did he make his case? We'll debate it straight ahead.
There may be no such thing as a free lunch, but you can get Viagra for nothing. We've got the true blue story on LIVE FROM...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: President Bush last night defending his decision to go into Iraq, calling the fight a theater on the war on terrorism. And he says the current spate of violence would not change plans to turn over sovereignty on June 30. Under election year pressure, did the president make his case? Here to talk about it, John Gizzi, political editor for "Human Events" magazine, and Ian Williams, United Nations correspondent for "The Nation" magazine, he's also the author of the yet to be released "Deserter George Bush: Soldier of Fortune." I'm sure we'll talk about that book when it comes out, Ian.
Gentleman, hello.
IAN WILLIAMS, "THE NATION": Please do.
PHILLIPS: Yes. I know. You don't hold back.
JOHN GIZZI, "HUMAN EVENTS": Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Hello. John, let's start with you. Overall impressions of the president's speech?
GIZZI: The president's speech was a little bit on the slow side. He does much better when he's spontaneous than when he's reading. He should do more sessions like this, more questions and answers and be on autopilot a little bit more. Particularly his statements about meaning what he says and saying what he means as well as the United States' commitment to finishing the job and building democracy as we did in Japan and Germany, were very forthright and from the heart. I thought his statement in the beginning was too long, but any problems were made up for in the question and answer session.
PHILLIPS: Ian.
IAN WILLIAMS, "THE NATION": Well, that bit about saying what he means, it reminds me of Humpty-Dumpty in "Alice in Wonderland." When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean, neither more nor less.
He used certain words all the way through. He used freedom, he used loved ones, he presented himself as on a mission from almighty God. He kept referring to terrorism and security. And he wrapped himself in the flag.
What did he do? He said, if you criticize me, you're stabbing our soldiers in the back. That was the message he was giving. And in fact a lot of the people criticizing are, in fact, supporting our soldiers and saying they shouldn't be there, they shouldn't have their lives wrecked like this because this isn't part of the war on terror. This is some sort of personal crusade of the president which was not well thought out and is unraveling exactly the way a lot of us said it was going to a year ago.
PHILLIPS: Well, on that note of unraveling, let's go to a sound bite here with regard to the truth. It was a bit confusing to me. I want to get you guys to sort of lay out your thoughts. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: See, I happen to believe that we'll find out the truth on the weapons. That's why we set up the independent commission. I look forward to hearing the truth, exactly where they are. They could still be there. They could be hidden like the 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: OK. First of all, weapons of mass destruction and the independent commission, I'm assuming he's talking about the 9/11 Commission and that's not about weapons of mass destruction. I don't know. Give me your thoughts, John?
GIZZI: The president was talking about the 9/11 Commission, but more importantly, he was saying -- and I'm certainly glad that Ian and "The Nation" weren't doing subtitles on this, because he wasn't talking about himself or linking criticism to him to criticism of the troops. He was talking about our mission over there. And the mission is yet to be over.
The fact is that this is the same kind of address that Franklin Roosevelt, 60 years ago next month, when he declared for a fourth term and said he was the equivalent of a soldier re-enlisting, could have easily given.
PHILLIPS: Ian, and I want to touch on this 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm, I mean, that obviously...
WILLIAMS: Well, it was 50 tons of mustard gas in a turkey farm in Libya that had nothing to do with Iraq. So this is -- this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of war in a big way. But if I can come back to this point about FDR, that's precisely an analogy which has occurred to me. We're at a stage where, if after Pearl Harbor and Hitler's declaration of war on America, we had left Hitler up in the mountains in Bavaria untouched while the bulk of our armed forces down Argentina, kicking butt on Peron because the president didn't like him.
That's what we are. Where is Osama bin Laden? Why is Afghanistan unraveling? That's where the war on terror was. That's the guy that caused 9/11. Why do we 150,000 American men and women risking their lives in Iraq where they're clearly not totally welcome when it has nothing to do with the war on terror?
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, John.
GIZZI: I don't know what I like less, Ian's interpretation of the president's remark last night or his revisionist history of World War II. The president was talking very clearly, I felt, about that turkey farm in Libya and how a former country hostile to the United States has not only turned around but has shown tangible proof it wants to be part of the community of responsible nations.
He was simply saying what Congressman Candice Miller of Michigan, Congressman Boehlert of New York and other members of Congress who met with Colonel Gadhafi told me, nothing more, nothing less. Where Ian gets his interpretation from history, I have no clue.
PHILLIPS: All right. Is the U.S. at war, is it not at war? A little confusion coming out of this sound bite. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're at war. Iraq is a part of the war on terror. It is not the war on terror. Is it a theater in the war on terror. And it's essential we win this battle in the war on terror. By winning this battle, it will make other victories more certain in the war against the terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: OK. So he stood on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln and said that major combat was over. Now he's coming forward and very firmly saying we are still at war. Ian?
WILLIAMS: He did that on prime-time television as well. He landed there for a banner -- a staged event with him wrapped in a uniform and the flag, saying "mission accomplished," it is all over. A year later, 500 dead Americans later, it isn't over. He's saying we're staying on and we're sending more troops. And he could not bring himself to admit at any point that he might have made a mistake. He couldn't even think of a mistake when he was asked.
PHILLIPS: John?
GIZZI: Kyra, as John McCain and Bill Bradley used to say, I'm not going to play that game. And Bush is not going to play that game any more than they were going to try to name world leaders, go back and name mistakes you made. We're all guilty of different things. And if start naming one, people will name another.
I'm glad he didn't even touch that. Frankly, I have to take a moment and give Ian a history lesson. When he was on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln he proclaimed an end to the hostilities in Afghanistan and the defeat of Taliban. He in no way said the war on terrorism was over. He said we achieved a victory at this point. And since then as he did last night, he spoke about Saddam as part of an axis of terror around the world.
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. When he landed on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln on May Day last year, it was to announce the end of hostilities -- active hostilities in Iraq, not Afghanistan. Hostilities in Afghanistan are still going on. They still haven't found Osama bin Laden because most of the troops that should be finding him are stuck up in a desert in Kut and Fallujah and Baghdad instead of going after the person who actually caused 9/11.
PHILLIPS: John, I have to second Ian on that one. I was on the deck when he made that speech. But I want to get another question here, real quickly, gentlemen, the issue of not touching any domestic questions. We've got this Gallup poll, most important problem facing the U.S.: Iraq, 26 percent; economy, 22 percent, unemployment, 17; terrorism, 13. Why did he not touch any domestic issues last night, John?
GIZZI: Well, the president is only as good as the questioners were. I would have to say take it up with the reporters who were there who were called upon. They seemed to be focused entirely on Iraq.
You are correct, Kyra, on the Abraham Lincoln, I did mean to say he proclaimed the end of hostilities in Iraq, which is no different than saying that we defeated the Japanese in World War II, but the Allies still had a major job in the rebuilding and reconstruction of the post-war period.
I would say that the president submits himself, as White House press secretary Scott McClellan does, to a variety of questions every day on a variety of subjects. It just seems that given the atmosphere of the 9/11 Commission and the apparent preoccupation with why we're in Iraq, that was all they chose to ask about. The president in many other forums has discussed the economy, the creation of 300,000 new jobs and issues very much related to the domestic scene.
PHILLIPS: Ian, final thoughts?
WILLIAMS: Well, I have to almost agree with John, he wasn't asked about the economy. He should have been, but he wasn't. But I have to once again come back to John on his analogy. The end of hostilities in Japan did not result in four times as many American casualties after VJ Day than before. And that's what this end of hostilities amounted to. He was wrong, he has been wrong. And he's scared to admit it. And for obvious reasons...
GIZZI: The "wolf packs" in Germany killed American troops in the occupation, and troops loyal to the former Japanese regime, ambushed Americans in Tokyo after VJ Day.
WILLIAMS: Four times as many?
PHILLIPS: All right. Gentlemen, we're supposed to debate the president's speech. Now we're debating history. We'll come back, we'll do that next time, all right? John Gizzi, political editor for "Human Events" magazine, Ian Williams, of course, with "The Nation." Gentlemen, great discussion. Thank you both very much.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
GIZZI: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, you're just moments away from live testimony before the 9/11 Commission. FBI Director Richard Mueller will testify we're going to bring that to you -- sorry, Robert Mueller, my mistake. We'll bring that to you live when it happens.
Change of plans for servicemen and women in Iraq. Troops scheduled to go home are sent back into battle.
A quick break, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: General John Abizaid told the Pentagon this week he needs more troops in Iraq. Now it looks like about 20,000 of them will have longer tours of duty. Members of the Army's 1st Armored Division have gotten the word, instead of the ticket out of the war zone, many of them will be spending another summer in the desert heat.
CNN's Jane Arraf is with the troops in Kut and has some reaction..
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The 1st Armored Division was supposed to be going home from Baghdad. Instead it is headed south, this time to Kut, where militia loyal to a radical Shia leader seized control last week. The quick reaction force along with tanks, helicopters and fighter planes was deployed just hours after Muqtada al-Sadr's militia took Kut.
The U.S. retook the city. Military officials say it is the biggest and quickest turnaround of forces they can recall. They turned this desert camp near Kut, home to about 1000 Ukrainian soldiers, into a U.S. Army base five times the size.
BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: This is about 250 kilometers from where our base of operations is. So this is an expeditionary army that turned on a dime, changed mission from one thing to another and went right back into a fight. It is pretty miraculous.
ARRAF: The division was so close to going home, helicopters had been cleaned and put in shrink wrap at the port. Soldiers had shipped home their things and handed in their ammunition. Staff Sergeant Felipe Lial from Kennedy Texas, has been in Kuwait and Iraq for 18 months. He told his family he'll be here at least three months more.
STAFF SGT. FELIPE LIAL, U.S. ARMY: I called them one day and I was like, hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq. And they're like, yes, we see it on the news.
ARRAF: If it's hard on the soldiers, it is even harder on the families. They're giving up vacations, wedding plans and promises to be home in the spring. Staff Sergeant Jorge Valez wearing the new uniform he planned to greet his family in, can't bring himself to tell his eight-year-old son.
STAFF SGT. JORGE VALEZ, U.S. ARMY: It is going to break his heart, it's going to break my heart. So I might as well let his mom take care of that.
ARRAF: After a year in the field, these soldiers are pretty resilient.
(on camera): It is only early April and it is already 90 degrees here. Not only are these troops going to have to stay another three to four months, they're going to have to stay until the beginning of another Iraqi summer.
(voice-over): For some of the younger troops like this specialist from Indiana, the new mission is a welcome change of pace. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't really care for the whole, you know, sitting around guarding stuff. I like to go out and do what we're trying to do, kick in doors and shoot at people.
ARRAF: Despite the grumbling, soldiers say they're now fighting a clear enemy. And this is what they signed up for.
Jane Arraf, CNN, Kut, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MARKET REPORT)
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Aired April 14, 2004 - 13:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: No matter how hard we worked, or how desperately we tried, it was not enough. The victims and the families of 9/11 deserve better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Top spy in the hot seat. Ahead this hour, the FBI director faces a 9/11 Commission critical of his agency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called him one day and I was like, hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: About face in Iraq. U.S. forces heading for home are ordered back into battle.
President Bush taking reporters' questions again. Today's topic, the Middle East. What might be surprising is what he's not talking about.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
We begin with the post-9/11 FBI. We're about 30 minutes away from two hours of testimony by FBI Director Robert Mueller before the 9/11 panel on Capitol Hill. At issue, lessons learned in light of what the commission says were deep and varied shortcomings in the bureau's culture and capabilities. CNN's Bob Franken, a fly on the wall in the committee room.
Hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello. And we are awaiting the staff report, the staff report outlines in advance what the staff of the commission believes about the upcoming witnesses.
In this particular case, the witness is Robert Mueller. The staff is going to say that he has made genuine efforts to improve the FBI, but there's a long way to go. We're expecting that Mueller's testimony will reinforce that point of view. He's following morning testimony that was devoted to the intelligence community, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency. George Tenet, who is the director of the agency, also said that things have gotten better in the CIA, but it is going to take five years before the intelligence community can really be up to speed. One committee member, the chairman, Thomas Kean, said that five years may be too long.
Now we want to depart from the leaders of the agency. I want you to see something that is historic, a person who is historic. His name is James Pavitt. You've probably have never heard his name. You can almost certainly know that you have never seen his face. It is the first time that any deputy director of operations for the Central Intelligence Agency, the person who is called the superspy, the superspook, it's the first time any has ever testified publicly.
And Pavitt, who is right in the middle of trying to clean up things, says that although they are making improvements, he can't make any promises.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES PAVITT, DEP. OPERATIONS DIR., CIA: I would like to promise this commission, I'd like to promise the people who are listening to what we're saying today, that I have now in place, because of a largesse of Congress or the largesse of the executive, I have in place what's necessary to stop this from happening again. I can't say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now as I said, Kyra, you are seeing somebody who has never been seen before on television in an environment like this, never been seen in public testimony. He's saying the same thing that the more public figures are saying. They're trying to make progress. But still we're quite vulnerable around the world to a terrorist attack -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: There's been a lot of talk about certain individuals being well coached before going before the 9/11 Commission. Taking a look at Pavitt, the fact that this has never happened before, what are you hearing, Bob? Was he coached or did he just speak from the heart?
FRANKEN: I think he is the coach. This is the man who runs the most sensitive parts of the intelligence community. There's a long tradition of these people. They make movies about these people. This was not a movie.
PHILLIPS: Bob Franken following the 9/11 Commission. We'll check with you later. Thanks, Bob.
Once again FBI Director Robert Mueller at the 9/11 Commission at the bottom of the hour. CNN will bring you his testimony live.
At the White House today, a united front on a highly divisive issue. As you saw here in the first hour of LIVE FROM..., President Bush described as historic and courageous Israeli plans to pull out of Gaza and much but not all of the West Bank. Palestinians say it is a dangerous gambit. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has the details -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, just moments ago President Bush announced that he was endorsing Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan, that is for Israel to pull out of Gaza and a small portion of the West Bank.
There were some conditions, however to leave the talks open between Israelis and Palestinians to create two independent states to follow the road map in that sense, also to lead a final status talks up in the open. That being the dispute over the West Bank Israeli border. Now really what is this is for Sharon, it is a move to create the security buffer. It's an acknowledgment by the Bush administration that the road map talks needed a jump start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That the prime minister has made the decision to dismantle some settlements. In other words, he is beginning to implement a vision that allows for contiguous territory so that a Palestinian state can emerge. This is an important step today. It accelerates the process. I view it as creating an opportunity, an opportunity for those of you who believe that a Palestinian state should emerge, a peaceful Palestinian state to work to put a framework for such a state to exist, so that the institutions of such state are bigger than the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, one critical item here, perhaps even more important to the Palestinians is the right of return for Palestinian refugees. President Bush saying that if they would be allowed to return to a future the state of Palestine and not Israel, and hat is important for a lot of Palestinians, because they believe that they would be denied voting rights and citizenship in Israel. And that for some -- for many Palestinians they believe is their homeland -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, live from the White House, thank you.
Explosions echo through Iraq and the surging insurgency is bad news for U.S. troops looking to come home. A rocket struck the Sheraton Hotel in Baghdad today, breaking windows and shaking up the place. No casualties reported. A second rocket that didn't explode was found on the street three miles away. A mortar was fired but it didn't cause any damage.
Coalition forces are tightening their hold around the Shiite city of Najaf. Rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is holed up there. He's backing off his conditions for talks with the coalition if Iraq's top Shiite Muslim body agrees. Talks could avert an all out confrontation with U.S. troops who have orders to capture or kill him.
The heightened violence in Iraq means the Pentagon is expected to extend deployment orders for some 20,000 U.S. troops. Most are from the 1st Armored Division. They're likely to remain in Iraq another three months. Amid the turmoil the United Nations envoy is optimistic about a new caretaker government for Iraq. Lakhdar Brahimi said he's confident it can be set up by the June 30 handover date and he's outlining his vision of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAKHDAR BRAHIMI, U.N. ENVOY: We see it as a government led by a prime minister and comprising Iraqi men and women known for their honesty, integrity and competence. There will also be a president to act as head of state and two vice presidents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Brahimi adds that security in Iraq will have to improve greatly before scheduled elections can take place next January.
Other news across America begins on a somber note in Wisconsin. Memorial services scheduled today for Specialist Michelle Witmer. She is a National Guard MP that was killed in Iraq on Friday. Her twin sister and here older sister both now on ,leave facing a heart- wrenching decision whether to return to the war zone or stay home.
In California, an incredible survivor story. Ruby Bustamante survived 10 days in a ravine after a car crash killed her mother. The five-year-old was spotted by workers repairing a guardrail and she was rescued. Police believe she lived on uncooked noodles and Gatorade. The girl is in stable condition at a local hospital.
New allegations against Michael Jackson, Los Angeles police investigating new claims of child abuse from the 1980s. Jackson's publicist issued a statement saying we believe that the smear campaign is driven by money hungry lawyers seeking to capitalize on Mr. Jackson's current legal situation.
PHILLIPS: President Bush taking his message to America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: There is no question this has been a tough series of weeks for the American people. It has been really tough for the families. I understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Did he make his case? We'll debate it straight ahead.
There may be no such thing as a free lunch, but you can get Viagra for nothing. We've got the true blue story on LIVE FROM...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: President Bush last night defending his decision to go into Iraq, calling the fight a theater on the war on terrorism. And he says the current spate of violence would not change plans to turn over sovereignty on June 30. Under election year pressure, did the president make his case? Here to talk about it, John Gizzi, political editor for "Human Events" magazine, and Ian Williams, United Nations correspondent for "The Nation" magazine, he's also the author of the yet to be released "Deserter George Bush: Soldier of Fortune." I'm sure we'll talk about that book when it comes out, Ian.
Gentleman, hello.
IAN WILLIAMS, "THE NATION": Please do.
PHILLIPS: Yes. I know. You don't hold back.
JOHN GIZZI, "HUMAN EVENTS": Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Hello. John, let's start with you. Overall impressions of the president's speech?
GIZZI: The president's speech was a little bit on the slow side. He does much better when he's spontaneous than when he's reading. He should do more sessions like this, more questions and answers and be on autopilot a little bit more. Particularly his statements about meaning what he says and saying what he means as well as the United States' commitment to finishing the job and building democracy as we did in Japan and Germany, were very forthright and from the heart. I thought his statement in the beginning was too long, but any problems were made up for in the question and answer session.
PHILLIPS: Ian.
IAN WILLIAMS, "THE NATION": Well, that bit about saying what he means, it reminds me of Humpty-Dumpty in "Alice in Wonderland." When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean, neither more nor less.
He used certain words all the way through. He used freedom, he used loved ones, he presented himself as on a mission from almighty God. He kept referring to terrorism and security. And he wrapped himself in the flag.
What did he do? He said, if you criticize me, you're stabbing our soldiers in the back. That was the message he was giving. And in fact a lot of the people criticizing are, in fact, supporting our soldiers and saying they shouldn't be there, they shouldn't have their lives wrecked like this because this isn't part of the war on terror. This is some sort of personal crusade of the president which was not well thought out and is unraveling exactly the way a lot of us said it was going to a year ago.
PHILLIPS: Well, on that note of unraveling, let's go to a sound bite here with regard to the truth. It was a bit confusing to me. I want to get you guys to sort of lay out your thoughts. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: See, I happen to believe that we'll find out the truth on the weapons. That's why we set up the independent commission. I look forward to hearing the truth, exactly where they are. They could still be there. They could be hidden like the 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: OK. First of all, weapons of mass destruction and the independent commission, I'm assuming he's talking about the 9/11 Commission and that's not about weapons of mass destruction. I don't know. Give me your thoughts, John?
GIZZI: The president was talking about the 9/11 Commission, but more importantly, he was saying -- and I'm certainly glad that Ian and "The Nation" weren't doing subtitles on this, because he wasn't talking about himself or linking criticism to him to criticism of the troops. He was talking about our mission over there. And the mission is yet to be over.
The fact is that this is the same kind of address that Franklin Roosevelt, 60 years ago next month, when he declared for a fourth term and said he was the equivalent of a soldier re-enlisting, could have easily given.
PHILLIPS: Ian, and I want to touch on this 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm, I mean, that obviously...
WILLIAMS: Well, it was 50 tons of mustard gas in a turkey farm in Libya that had nothing to do with Iraq. So this is -- this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of war in a big way. But if I can come back to this point about FDR, that's precisely an analogy which has occurred to me. We're at a stage where, if after Pearl Harbor and Hitler's declaration of war on America, we had left Hitler up in the mountains in Bavaria untouched while the bulk of our armed forces down Argentina, kicking butt on Peron because the president didn't like him.
That's what we are. Where is Osama bin Laden? Why is Afghanistan unraveling? That's where the war on terror was. That's the guy that caused 9/11. Why do we 150,000 American men and women risking their lives in Iraq where they're clearly not totally welcome when it has nothing to do with the war on terror?
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, John.
GIZZI: I don't know what I like less, Ian's interpretation of the president's remark last night or his revisionist history of World War II. The president was talking very clearly, I felt, about that turkey farm in Libya and how a former country hostile to the United States has not only turned around but has shown tangible proof it wants to be part of the community of responsible nations.
He was simply saying what Congressman Candice Miller of Michigan, Congressman Boehlert of New York and other members of Congress who met with Colonel Gadhafi told me, nothing more, nothing less. Where Ian gets his interpretation from history, I have no clue.
PHILLIPS: All right. Is the U.S. at war, is it not at war? A little confusion coming out of this sound bite. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're at war. Iraq is a part of the war on terror. It is not the war on terror. Is it a theater in the war on terror. And it's essential we win this battle in the war on terror. By winning this battle, it will make other victories more certain in the war against the terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: OK. So he stood on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln and said that major combat was over. Now he's coming forward and very firmly saying we are still at war. Ian?
WILLIAMS: He did that on prime-time television as well. He landed there for a banner -- a staged event with him wrapped in a uniform and the flag, saying "mission accomplished," it is all over. A year later, 500 dead Americans later, it isn't over. He's saying we're staying on and we're sending more troops. And he could not bring himself to admit at any point that he might have made a mistake. He couldn't even think of a mistake when he was asked.
PHILLIPS: John?
GIZZI: Kyra, as John McCain and Bill Bradley used to say, I'm not going to play that game. And Bush is not going to play that game any more than they were going to try to name world leaders, go back and name mistakes you made. We're all guilty of different things. And if start naming one, people will name another.
I'm glad he didn't even touch that. Frankly, I have to take a moment and give Ian a history lesson. When he was on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln he proclaimed an end to the hostilities in Afghanistan and the defeat of Taliban. He in no way said the war on terrorism was over. He said we achieved a victory at this point. And since then as he did last night, he spoke about Saddam as part of an axis of terror around the world.
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. When he landed on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln on May Day last year, it was to announce the end of hostilities -- active hostilities in Iraq, not Afghanistan. Hostilities in Afghanistan are still going on. They still haven't found Osama bin Laden because most of the troops that should be finding him are stuck up in a desert in Kut and Fallujah and Baghdad instead of going after the person who actually caused 9/11.
PHILLIPS: John, I have to second Ian on that one. I was on the deck when he made that speech. But I want to get another question here, real quickly, gentlemen, the issue of not touching any domestic questions. We've got this Gallup poll, most important problem facing the U.S.: Iraq, 26 percent; economy, 22 percent, unemployment, 17; terrorism, 13. Why did he not touch any domestic issues last night, John?
GIZZI: Well, the president is only as good as the questioners were. I would have to say take it up with the reporters who were there who were called upon. They seemed to be focused entirely on Iraq.
You are correct, Kyra, on the Abraham Lincoln, I did mean to say he proclaimed the end of hostilities in Iraq, which is no different than saying that we defeated the Japanese in World War II, but the Allies still had a major job in the rebuilding and reconstruction of the post-war period.
I would say that the president submits himself, as White House press secretary Scott McClellan does, to a variety of questions every day on a variety of subjects. It just seems that given the atmosphere of the 9/11 Commission and the apparent preoccupation with why we're in Iraq, that was all they chose to ask about. The president in many other forums has discussed the economy, the creation of 300,000 new jobs and issues very much related to the domestic scene.
PHILLIPS: Ian, final thoughts?
WILLIAMS: Well, I have to almost agree with John, he wasn't asked about the economy. He should have been, but he wasn't. But I have to once again come back to John on his analogy. The end of hostilities in Japan did not result in four times as many American casualties after VJ Day than before. And that's what this end of hostilities amounted to. He was wrong, he has been wrong. And he's scared to admit it. And for obvious reasons...
GIZZI: The "wolf packs" in Germany killed American troops in the occupation, and troops loyal to the former Japanese regime, ambushed Americans in Tokyo after VJ Day.
WILLIAMS: Four times as many?
PHILLIPS: All right. Gentlemen, we're supposed to debate the president's speech. Now we're debating history. We'll come back, we'll do that next time, all right? John Gizzi, political editor for "Human Events" magazine, Ian Williams, of course, with "The Nation." Gentlemen, great discussion. Thank you both very much.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
GIZZI: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, you're just moments away from live testimony before the 9/11 Commission. FBI Director Richard Mueller will testify we're going to bring that to you -- sorry, Robert Mueller, my mistake. We'll bring that to you live when it happens.
Change of plans for servicemen and women in Iraq. Troops scheduled to go home are sent back into battle.
A quick break, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: General John Abizaid told the Pentagon this week he needs more troops in Iraq. Now it looks like about 20,000 of them will have longer tours of duty. Members of the Army's 1st Armored Division have gotten the word, instead of the ticket out of the war zone, many of them will be spending another summer in the desert heat.
CNN's Jane Arraf is with the troops in Kut and has some reaction..
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The 1st Armored Division was supposed to be going home from Baghdad. Instead it is headed south, this time to Kut, where militia loyal to a radical Shia leader seized control last week. The quick reaction force along with tanks, helicopters and fighter planes was deployed just hours after Muqtada al-Sadr's militia took Kut.
The U.S. retook the city. Military officials say it is the biggest and quickest turnaround of forces they can recall. They turned this desert camp near Kut, home to about 1000 Ukrainian soldiers, into a U.S. Army base five times the size.
BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: This is about 250 kilometers from where our base of operations is. So this is an expeditionary army that turned on a dime, changed mission from one thing to another and went right back into a fight. It is pretty miraculous.
ARRAF: The division was so close to going home, helicopters had been cleaned and put in shrink wrap at the port. Soldiers had shipped home their things and handed in their ammunition. Staff Sergeant Felipe Lial from Kennedy Texas, has been in Kuwait and Iraq for 18 months. He told his family he'll be here at least three months more.
STAFF SGT. FELIPE LIAL, U.S. ARMY: I called them one day and I was like, hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq. And they're like, yes, we see it on the news.
ARRAF: If it's hard on the soldiers, it is even harder on the families. They're giving up vacations, wedding plans and promises to be home in the spring. Staff Sergeant Jorge Valez wearing the new uniform he planned to greet his family in, can't bring himself to tell his eight-year-old son.
STAFF SGT. JORGE VALEZ, U.S. ARMY: It is going to break his heart, it's going to break my heart. So I might as well let his mom take care of that.
ARRAF: After a year in the field, these soldiers are pretty resilient.
(on camera): It is only early April and it is already 90 degrees here. Not only are these troops going to have to stay another three to four months, they're going to have to stay until the beginning of another Iraqi summer.
(voice-over): For some of the younger troops like this specialist from Indiana, the new mission is a welcome change of pace. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't really care for the whole, you know, sitting around guarding stuff. I like to go out and do what we're trying to do, kick in doors and shoot at people.
ARRAF: Despite the grumbling, soldiers say they're now fighting a clear enemy. And this is what they signed up for.
Jane Arraf, CNN, Kut, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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