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Live From...

Interview With Karen Russell; Interview With Chris Brewster

Aired April 26, 2004 - 14:30 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In the world of celebrities and their sometimes equally famous attorneys, we practically need a program to tell the players and the teams.
For more on Michael Jackson's new legal team, we turn to attorney Karen Russell, joining us from Seattle.

Karen, Great to see you again.

KAREN RUSSELL, TRIAL ATTY.: Nice to see you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. It's almost as if like baseball managers, they don't have much longevity. But why is it that in particular these celebrities seem to demand so much from their attorneys?

RUSSELL: Well, I think this could be that Michael Jackson maybe didn't think he would actually be indicted. But when he was, the harsh reality sunk in. But I don't think this is a big deal for him. I mean, Mesereau has a great reputation.

O'BRIEN: It's not a big deal for who?

RUSSELL: For Jackson.

O'BRIEN: For Jackson? Really?

RUSSELL: Yes, and I think that it's sort of overblown, the impact that this will have on this case. I mean, there is a disadvantage in that Geragos was on the case for 14 months. And I'm sure there's a huge, huge, huge case file for Mesereau to digest, but...

O'BRIEN: I should say.

RUSSELL: But it's a pretty straightforward, he said, he said case. So it is not that complex.

O'BRIEN: Well, I mean, what do you think? Was it perhaps the fact that Geragos was involved in the Peterson case in Northern California? And No. 1, that's taking a lot of his time. No. 2, it does kind of bring a cloud with it as far as the jury is concerned, doesn't it?

RUSSELL: Yes, I think it might have brought a little bit of a cloud. And I think the other thing was that Benjamin Brafman was from New York, and so he sort of maybe felt that even with Brafman as second chair, you had an out of state lawyer sort of playing catch-up, I guess, as it were for Geragos.

O'BRIEN: All right, so it's just a matter of what? The amount of attention, the family feels it needs in this case, and in other words, things have ratcheted up now that there's an indictment?

RUSSELL: Yes, well I think things have ratcheted up. And I also think we have to look at it from the point of view of the lawyers as well. I think that Michael Jackson is a handful of a client.

O'BRIEN: Oh, you think so?

RUSSELL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Dancing on the vehicle there with the crowd, yes.

RUSSELL: You know, I do think that the case against Michael Jackson is rather weak. And I am surprised, though, that they are, again, doing the buses and bring your own candles to the candlelight vigil. I am a little surprised about the PR. And just for the PR czars that he has around him and the sort of -- remember that meeting where they had all the advisers in that conference room.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

RUSSELL: So maybe it was like all the conference room guys saying, you know, it's time for a change. But no one seems to be sort of able to wrangle Jackson to not sort of pull the bus and the fan stunts. So we'll see. You know, on Friday, maybe he will show up on time.

O'BRIEN: If he called you up, would you take his case?

RUSSELL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Of course you would.

RUSSELL: Who -- what, especially since I think it is a winnable case. But any criminal defense attorney would want to...

O'BRIEN: I don't think he'd listen to you, Karen.

RUSSELL: I don't know that he listens to anyone. Yes, I mean, that's the thing, it's interesting, he is a 45-year-old man and he has made statements that says, I'm making my own decisions and listen to me, not to the other spokespeople. And on the one hand, he seems firmly driving the case. On the other hand, I think the PR thing has gotten out of hand. And I think it has undercut his case.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about Kobe Bryant. These hearings, first of all, is it accurate to say that the hearings really are, in a sense, the trial, because how the hearings will determine how it goes, right? RUSSELL: Well, I think the hearings are very critical, and I think that the hearings this week, the one about the Rape Shield Law is really -- and also about whether or not Kobe's statement and T- shirt will be allowed are pivotal to Kobe's defense, I think more so than the medical records that would have decided last week.

O'BRIEN: Let's listen to the mother of the alleged victim is talking to the media. Let's listen to her for just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOBE BRYANT'S ACCUSER'S MOTHER: Victims' rights are about standing up for the truth. Victims' rights are about becoming a survivor. I want to thank my daughter for teaching me about courage. I'm proud to be her mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: How does that play among a potential jury pool, do you think?

RUSSELL: Well, I think that the D.A. and her, the alleged victim, the accuser's attorneys, have done a good job on PR in her behalf recently. So I do think that they want to sort of paint her as the perfect victim and say that Kobe Bryant, big, bad Kobe is the root of all the problems in this girl's life. And I think that will actually ultimately backfire. because you know, they're saying she's had to move from place to place because of Kobe's celebrity when you know, I think that she moved after she had one of her suicide attempts, and so -- and you know, there are rumors that she was asked to leave rehab for cause, and you know, and so I don't know -- I'm sorry.

O'BRIEN: Just to wrap it up here, what does your gut tell you? How much will the jury know about this I alleged victim or accuser, whatever you want to call it?

RUSSELL: Well, I think that because she's so unusual and that she came to her rape exam with someone else's semen on her body, I think that she may be able to fall into the Rape Shield statute and get more information than it would be in an ordinary case. This case on so many levels is just out of the ordinary.

O'BRIEN: Karen Russell, thanks very much. Always a pleasure. Appreciate your legal insights. The bill is in the mail, I trust. We'll see you again soon -- Kyra.

RUSSELL: Thanks, Miles.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The pressure mounts on. And Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is feeling the pinch. What really happened during a 1971 anti-war demonstration when war medals and ribbons were tossed in protest? Confronted with the various versions told over the years, Kerry defended his honor in an interview today on ABC's "Good Morning America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn't have to do it. If I was trying to hide something, I would have never stood there in front of everybody and thrown them over the fence. I threw my ribbons over. I threw the medals of two veterans who asked me to throw them over, after the ceremony, completely separate. And I'm the one, if I have something to hide, I'm the one who made it known exactly what happened. To me, it's one in the same. And I'm proud of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, dangerous currents along Florida's coast. Find out what's going on and how to protect yourself and your family get a grip on the rip, next.

A sea change in the food industry and American lives, as an unbelievable number of people get into the low-carb craze.

And if your flowers need some fog lifter? Look no further than your nearest Starbucks. The beans for your greens ahead in biz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you're not counting carbs, what's a person to count? The South Beach diet and other low carbohydrate bibles have birthed a whole a new line of foods people buy for what's not in them. Just another fad, you may ask? CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Low carbs, high proteins, good carbs, bad carbs. We spend a lot of time talking about these issues. But just how much has the low carb craze caught on in the United States?

Well, that was the subject of a new survey by Opinion Dynamics. The numbers may startle you. Take a look, 70 million Americans now on some form of a low carbohydrate diet, 70 million Americans. Twenty- six million Americans calling themselves hard-core low carb diet folks, eating little or no carbs on a day-to-day basis. Pretty remarkable.

Some other numbers out that I find interesting out of this survey. Numbers of products that are new; 1,558 new products over the last couple of years that are designed to be just low or no carb. And those products costing about $85 a month on average for consumers, that's everything from beer to ice cream to spaghetti to breads. All those products that you think of as typically high carb, low carb now with this new low carb craze.

You can also read about it a lot. There's 140 books out there on low carbohydrate diets; 51 new books expected to come out this year.

Here is a sneaky little secret, though. The jury is still out as to whether or not these diets actually work. I guess no big surprise there. If you don't stick with this diet, which many people don't, as far as low carbohydrate diet goes, then you are not going to keep the weight off. While the weight may come off quickly with these low carbohydrate diets, it may not come off as well long term.

There are also some medical concerns, which some critics have raised. The high protein in these diets can be concerning for your kidney, for your liver and for your bones long term. And also those saturated fats, no surprise here, could be adversely effective on your heart and possibly causing strokes later on.

Here is the bottom line. Remember, calories still count. We went through this already with the low fat craze. We'll get the lesson again, with the low carb craze. Calories do count. No matter even if it has no carbs, if you load up on steak and eggs, eventually those calories are going to catch up with you as well. Keep that in mind.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: It's just about the first big decision new parents make, how to feed their baby. What's best for you and your child? Dr. Gupta's week-long series on newborns kicks off on LIVE FROM... in our next hour.

PHILLIPS: And remember the story about the biggest woolly you'd ever seen? Well, a shaggy sheep in New Zealand is about to meet his shearer.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... only on LIVE FROM... today, isn't it? That's right.

PHILLIPS: It's exclusive.

O'BRIEN: Shrek the sheep is about to go bald. Shrek, who has almost 60 pounds of fleece on his back, managed to escape shearers for six years running. But this Wednesday, a champion shearer is going to take it all off for poor Shrek. It's all for a good cause, though. Shrek's fleece will be sold to raise money for a cancer charity. We'll keep you abreast of the situation.

PHILLIPS: All right, now, the comeback of economy car called the Skoda. It was made in the Czech Republic during the communist era.

O'BRIEN: Now it has undergone a transformation, and it really is a pity. CNN's Richard Quest with our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Sleek, luxurious, with lots of gadgets. But is this car a Skoda?

Noisy, smelly and cramped. This is the old Skoda that was the car of choice in this part of the world. Drive on!

(voice-over): And this is the car which most of the world associated with Skoda during communist times. A rather miserable car from a very miserable past. Of course, that wasn't how it was seen during communist times. The films portrayed the Skoda as the people's car of choice. But the Czechoslovak people, everyone like Josef Jandus, owned and drove at least one Skoda during those years.

JOSEF JANDUS, SKODA AFICIONADO (through translator): The first car I bought in 1968. The second one when my daughter was born. The third came with my second wife.

QUEST: The wife is gone, the car's still here.

(on camera): Skoda is, without doubt, one of the great symbols of the Czech Republic, but getting the factory to operate in this fashion, in such a modern way took a great deal of effort and, of course, money.

And that's where Volkswagen came in.

(voice-over): The money bought Skoda and paid for new factories, new models, and with these new models, the Czech people have rekindled their kindness to the car that's made in their own backyard.

JOSEF MEDNIK: I'm sure people love Skoda, as I do. I think Skoda is a symbol of the Czech skill. And it survived many systems.

QUEST: The fact the Czech people are joining the EU won't dramatically affect European sales. Skoda already operates across the continent. But for the psychology and reputation of the cars, then the EU is a very big deal.

JAROSLAV CZERNY, SKODA AUTOS: For Skoda, it is important to increase the image, to combine the image of Skoda in Czech Republic and Czech Republic part of the EU.

QUEST (on camera): One, two, three, four. The sheer number of Skodas on the road, even 14 years after competition arrived, shows the success of the joint venture and the revamped car company. The hope is, of course, there will be many more Skoda examples in the new Europe.

Richard Quest, CNN, Prague.

Seven, eight, nine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: You know, you just can't top that.

O'BRIEN: You send a guy like Richard to Prague and that's what you get.

PHILLIPS: That's what you get.

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes.

When LIVE FROM... returns, dangerous summer on some beaches to tell you about. We'll tell you what you need to know about rip currents. That's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, you should just know that we don't do this a lot. This is like a really huge deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to invite you to have lunch with us and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cool. Then we'll see you tomorrow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Wednesdays, we wear pink.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Next hour, meet the author of the book that inspired the movie that outs the catty cliques who mocked you as a teen. LIVE FROM... sharpens its claws right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, the surf's up on the Florida's Panhandle, but instead of hanging ten, some swimmers are hanging on for dear life. Rip currents are to blame. Over the weekend, lifeguards pulled more than 120 swimmers out of the water. Rip currents are deceptive, and they can be deadly. Chris Brewster, president of the Lifesaving Association live with us from San Diego, California, to talk about staying safe in the water this summer. Hi, Chris.

CHRIS BREWSTER, PRESIDENT, U.S. LIFESAVING ASSOCIATION: Good afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Well, I was looking at these numbers that I saw off your Web site. Rip current rescues in 2003: Hollywood, Florida, 82 out of 109. Santa Rosa Island, 197 of 291. And Sarasota County, 103 of 154. First of all, what's going on, why Florida, and why so many?

BREWSTER: Well, throughout the United States at all surf beaches, rip currents are the primary source of distress. In fact, lifeguards report that over 80 percent of rescues are associated with rip currents.

I think a lot of people are unfamiliar with the phenomenon, but lifeguards know that phenomenon very well.

PHILLIPS: And why are we unfamiliar with this? BREWSTER: Well, I think rip currents have been confused with this word undertow, and rip tides and so forth. And people just don't understand that rip currents are a separate and distinct thing from those things. It's a river of water moving away from the shore, at surf beaches that is produced by surf.

And so I think there just needs to be more attention to it so people understand it better.

PHILLIPS: All right, paying attention, pay attention to the flags, know your beach, know where you're going. But if you get caught in one, what do you do?

BREWSTER: Well, first of all, visit a beach that has lifeguards. We've found that the chance of drowning at a beach with lifeguards is one in 18 million. And that's a pretty good figure of safety. But if you're at a beach with lifeguards or even without, and you're caught in a rip current, they tend to pull directly or a little bit diagonally away from the beach. And what you want to make sure you don't do is try to swim backwards against the current. It's like running against a treadmill. You don't get anywhere.

So you swim along the shore, either north, south, east, west, depending on which way the beach is facing. And then once you're out of the pull of the rip current, swim in to shore.

PHILLIPS: So, Chris, tell us about the roving patrols. Has this made a difference? Where are they? Do we want to go to beaches that only have roving patrols?

BREWSTER: Actually, I think just the other way around. The beaches that are the best protected are those where the lifeguards are on duty watching the water at all times. What's happened down in Pensacola is that they found that their drownings were occurring, not surprisingly, at the beaches where lifeguards weren't on duty. And without adequate resources to put lifeguards everywhere they wanted them, what they decided to do was patrol those unprotected areas. And it seems like while that's not the perfect solution, it's beginning to pay off in a big way. As you can see, those roving patrols had some successes over the weekend.

PHILLIPS: Chris Brewster, thanks for checking in with us.

BREWSTER: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: LIVE FROM... rolls on.

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to CNN. This is LIVE FROM... I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

Their final say. It's closing arguments today in the manslaughter trial of Jayson Williams. Defense attorneys went this morning. The prosecution this afternoon. The former NBA star is charged in the shooting death of his chauffeur just two years ago. Williams says it was an accident.

Improving access to the Internet. In Minnesota, President Bush says he wants broadband available in every corner of the country by 2007. He says it brings education into the living rooms of students, and he called on Congress to ban taxes on broadband access.

The new color of money. Splashes of red, white and blue have been added to $50 bills. The new note was unveiled today. The $20 bill was revamped last year, and the makeover should make the bills harder to counterfeit.

O'BRIEN: Up first this hour: grim scenarios, grizzly results in Iraq. U.S. Marines in Fallujah today were forced to wage war on a mosque from which insurgents had opened fire with mortars, rocket- propelled grenades and automatic rifles. Some 35 miles away in Baghdad, a suspected chemical weapons site exploded just as U.S. troops went in to inspect it.

CNN's Jim Clancy has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Marines fired heavy machine guns in a major flare-up of hostilities in Fallujah, west of Baghdad. Explosions battered hopes that coalition troops would be able to join Iraqi security forces in joint patrols starting Tuesday. Those patrols aimed to force gunmen off the streets and bring back a measure of security.

The battle in Fallujah raged for hours. More than once, a coalition spokesman said mosques were used as staging grounds for attacks on U.S. troops.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: The coalition forces became pinned down by the enemy fire and requested additional support. A quick reaction force, which included air and tank support, arrived at the scene and directed suppressing fire on the mosque, killing eight enemy fighters and damaging the infrastructure of the mosque. As a result of the attack, one coalition soldier died of wounds, with an additional eight soldiers wounded.

CLANCY: U.S. helicopters fired on the mosque with Hellfire laser-guided missiles, sending huge plumes of thick black smoke into the skies, obscuring hopes for a peaceful settlement. Coalition officials say they would continue to pursue a negotiated agreement with religious and community leaders, but in the end it was up to the fighters to choose how this standoff is going to be resolved.

Meantime, Baghdad itself rocked but a powerful blast. Coalition troops were investigating a chemical storehouse in northwest Baghdad when a powerful explosion ripped through the building, killing two coalition soldiers and wounding five others. Eight Iraqi civilians, some of them in adjoining buildings, were injured by the force of the explosion.

KIMMITT: The location where the raid occurred was a chemical store which the owner and his associates were suspected of supplying chemical agents to terrorists, criminals and insurgents. There was also information that suggests these individuals were involved in the production of chemical munitions.

CLANCY: School-age children jumped on damaged U.S. military Humvees after the blast. The U.S. Army was brought in and warning shots were fired to disperse a crowd of several hundred people who had gathered at the site.

(on camera): It's doubtful the coalition will as easily dispel Iraqis' fears about insecurity in their country. A peaceful settlement in Fallujah would go a long way, but that, like so much else in the country, also depends on the insurgents.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: From an Islamist Web site today, claim of responsibility for Saturday's attacks on two Iraqi oil terminals. Three U.S. troops were killed when bomb-laden boats blew up just outside the southern city of Basra. Attacks now attributed, supposedly, admitted by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Al- Zarqawi, you may recall, is the suspected al Qaeda agitator who is believed to have devoted himself to fomenting civil war. Among the Americans, the first member of the U.S. Coast Guard to die in combat since Vietnam.

PHILLIPS: Vice President Dick Cheney goes on the attack, and the campaign heats up as the conversation over Democratic candidate John Kerry's medals turns terse.

CNN's Sean Callebs joins us now with more -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry is calling it a phony controversy. He is trying to put to rest questions about an anti-war rally 33 years ago and whether he really threw his medals away as a form of protest.

It happened back in 1971. And during the rally, a number of veterans tossed their medal away in an anti-war demonstration. Here's what Kerry had to say back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And that was the medals themselves. And so they decided to give them back to their country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many did you give back, John?

KERRY: I gave back -- I counted number six, seven, eight, nine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you were awarded the Bronze Star, a Silver Star, and three Purple Hearts. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Well, now Kerry says he threw his ribbons away, not the actual medals themselves. Kerry received three Purple Hearts, as well as the Bronze and Silver Stars during two tours of Vietnam. He says throwing away the ribbons was symbolic and there was no distinction between tossing away medals and the ribbons. The candidate says he is proud that he stood up and fought against the war.

The Bush-Cheney camp is releasing a salvo of their own today, a new commercial that blasts Kerry. It criticizes the Democrat for his stance on funding the U.S.-led military in the war on terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm George W. Bush, and I approved this message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As our troops defend America in the war on terror, they must have what it takes to win. Yet, John Kerry has repeatedly opposed weapons vital to winning the war on terror: Bradley fighting vehicles, Patriot missiles, B-2 stealth bombers, F-18 fighter jets and more.

Kerry even voted against body armor for our troops on the frontline of the war on terror. John Kerry's record on national security, troubling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: The Bush-Cheney camp says that Kerry did not support vital systems, as you just heard, such as the B-2 bomber, the Patriot missile, the F-18 fighter jet. One TV ad is running nationally beginning today. Nine others will begin running in local markets, as well.

Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney is front and center in the attacks on Kerry today speaking in Missouri. Cheney defended the administration's war on terror and the ongoing operation in Iraq. He said containment is meaningless in the case of al Qaeda, and that rogue regimes are willing to pass along weapons of mass destruction to terrorists -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Sean, how are Democrats countering this?

CALLEBS: Well, the head of the Democratic National Committee is blasting Cheney, calling him "the attack dog in chief." Terry McAuliffe went on to say Cheney hasn't been straight with the American public for four years, so why should he start now. McAuliffe says Cheney is "the guy who took a year to admit the Bush administration sent troops into Iraq without the body armor they needed" -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Sean Callebs live from Washington -- thanks.

O'BRIEN: News across America now. A training drill turns into a real-life rescue on the Potomac River. Sixteen women, all members of a rowing club, were pulled from the water after their racing skulls (ph) flooded and capsized today. Police and fireboats took them to the shore.

A dangerous weekend in the Florida Panhandle. Lifeguards at Pensacola Beach helped pull more than 120 swimmers to shore after they got caught in rip currents. It was the lifeguards' busiest weekend of the year.

A $200,000 bond set for an Ohio priest accused of killing a nun in 1980. Reverend Gerald Robinson charged Friday with strangling and stabbing the nun in a hospital chapel. He did not enter a plea during today's court appearance.

PHILLIPS: Well, parents know you can only prepare yourself so much when having your first child. Today, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta kicks off his five-part series for new parents. He begins a look at some of the biggest dilemmas: to breastfeed or not?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's doing excellent. Very, very good.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of nursing mothers is on the rise. Studies show 70 percent of new moms begin breastfeeding in the hospital. But that number drops dramatically when you check with them just a few months later. Why?

REBECCA SLOAN, MOM: It is hard. People and books that I read have said it's natural, its not supposed to hurt. It hurts. It hurts.

GUPTA: Rebecca Sloan had a hard time getting her baby to nurse at first.

SLOAN: The first two weeks, your nipples are so sore. It's hard because you have to be patient and because of the emotional state that you're in and the lack of sleep that you have.

GUPTA: Rebecca stuck with it. Now her daughter Tegan (ph) is thriving.

SLOAN: It is so natural. Once you get over those hurdles, it's absolutely wonderful.

GUPTA: Research shows breast-fed baby are less likely to get sick, they have fewer ear and chest infections, less gas and diarrhea, and are less likely to suffer from allergies, asthma, diabetes and cancer. Breast-fed babies also have a lower risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and of obesity in childhood. And children who are breast fed do better on IQ tests.

AMY SPANGLER, CHAIRWOMAN, U.S. BREASTFEEDING COMMITTEE: Four months to six months of exclusive breastfeeding is what seems to be needed for babies to get the lifelong benefits that breastfeeding provides.

GUPTA: Breastfeeding saves money, too. You can save up to $1,000 in the first year, compared to buying formula and bottles. Working moms have an even harder time of nursing for more than a few weeks. Going back to work and having to pump breast milk is challenging. Heidi Murkoff, author of "What to Expect When You're Expecting," counsels new moms that any amount of breastfeeding is better than nothing.

HEIDI MURKOFF, "WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN YOU'RE EXPECTING": So if you find you can't fit full-tine breastfeeding it into your schedule, or you just don't have the energy...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Let's go to Washington, and Secretary of State Colin Powell talking Iraq.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: ... they may or may not be using. What we are trying to do is find a way to work with the tribal leaders in the area and the city leaders in Fallujah to put together joint patrols, with coalition and Iraqi personnel working side by side, and see if this would not be a way to give confidence to the citizens of Fallujah and also persuade the armed thugs inside the city that it is in the best interest of the city, people, to lay down the arms. And let's allow these people to return to their homes. Let's allow these people to live freely and participate in the rebuilding not only of their city, but of their country.

So we will take the time necessary to see if there is not a political solution. But as you saw today, when our soldiers and our Marines are attacked, they will respond, and they will respond with force and to protect themselves and to kill those who are trying to kill the dreams and hopes of the Iraqi people.

Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Secretary of State Colin Powell, Foggy Bottom, in front of the State Department headquarters there, talking about the situation in Fallujah. Time for us to take a break.

Were you, a jock, a queen bee, or a wannabe, or maybe a geek? A new movie takes a humorous look at the often-playful and painful world of high school cliques -- or is it cliques?

Which do you prefer, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Cliques.

O'BRIEN: In your clique, was it clique, clique? Anyway, we'll talk about what you can do to help your kid from getting hurt, if it's avoidable at all.

And a man on fire burns up Hollywood. We'll check out what is tops at the box office.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MEAN GIRLS")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "MEAN GIRLS": Now, where you sit in the cafeteria is crucial because you've got everybody there. You've got varsity jocks, unfriendly black hotties, girls who eat their feelings, girls who don't eat anything, desperate wannabes, burnouts, active band geeks, the greatest people you will ever meet, and the worst. Beware of the plastics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: High school cliques, whether you were beat up by one, wanted to be in one, or avoided them like the plague, most all of us got caught up in the drama. And it hasn't changed since the last time you picked up a lunch tray and wondered where to sit.

What you just saw was a clip from the soon to be released movie "Mean Girls." It's based on the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and Other Realities of Adolescence." The author, Rosalind Wiseman, she joins me now from New York.

I don't remember the band geeks making out in the lunchroom. Where did that come from, Rosalind?

ROSALIND WISEMAN, AUTHOR, "QUEEN BEES AND WANNABES": Well, I think that's great.

PHILLIPS: No, seriously, what inspired you to even write the book? Did you go through this? Is your daughter going through it?

WISEMAN: Oh, no. Actually, I have two little kids, three and one. But, actually, I started an organization called the Empower Program 12 years ago so that children wouldn't have to go through these kinds of things. Because, actually, they're pretty important to the people they become.

It's called the Empower Program, and our motto is, "Violence should not be a right of passage." And I've been teaching girls for 12 years, and what I wanted to do with "Queen Bees" is write everything that I thought parents should know about what the lives of their daughters were like.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's interesting. Tell me why you think young girls join these cliques. In your book, you talk about it's like an army and you've got the general and the ranks that go on down.

WISEMAN: Right. Well, I think for the most part it's normal that people want a place to belong. And there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that, within those groups, not just outside of the group, not just when they target somebody who is outside the group, but also within the groups, people can treat each other in incredibly mean and unethical ways.

And also, what you learn, to not say what you want, to allow people to treat you like dirt, to see other people be treated like dirt and say nothing. Those are life lessons that you take with you for the rest of your life that impact the way you have relationships as you get older, from everywhere like intimate relationships to how you deal with your job.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's definitely tougher for girls than it is boys. Let's roll a clip from the movie.

WISEMAN: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your hair looks so sexy pushed back. Katie (ph), will you please tell him his hair looks sexy pushed back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regina (ph) was dangling Aaron (ph) in front of me on purpose. I knew how this would be settled in the animal world. But this was girl world.

Your hair looks sexy pushed back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, Rosalind, knowing what we know now, we would never put up with that. We probably would jump over the table and tackle that girl, right?

WISEMAN: No, actually I run into a lot of women who do the same stuff that they're doing now, unfortunately, that they were doing when they were 14.

PHILLIPS: Really?

WISEMAN: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Why don't they ever grow up?

WISEMAN: Well, I think what happens is that women feel like we're never how to express when we're angry at somebody in straightforward ways. So if we're not taught it, when do we learn?

Some women do learn, but there are a lot of people -- I have to tell you, when I'm speaking around the country, I do it all the time on behalf of the Empower Program. I do this all the time. And the amount of times women come up to me and tell me of the things that they're still dealing with in their jobs or with friends or with parents -- I mean, the next book I'm writing is called "Surviving the Hive (ph)". And it's about parents and how they're dealing with each other in much the same ways.

PHILLIPS: All right. You talk about the relationship between mom and daughter being very important, and how to talk to your daughter when she's going through all of this. A number of landmines that you have in your book. I love it with the bomb symbol.

WISEMAN: Right. PHILLIPS: You say girls can't stand the word "cliques" and they'll get defensive. Is that true?

WISEMAN: Oh, right, absolutely, because they feel like they're being blamed for something that they did not do, which is to be exclusive. So use the word "group" and basically it's the same thing.

PHILLIPS: All right. Don't tell your daughter that gossip is no big deal.

WISEMAN: Right, because it's the lifeblood of many girls. And what I look at as gossip is gossip is the currency, it's the money that girls exchange. And so whoever has the most has the most power.

PHILLIPS: All right. When your daughter is dumped, don't say, eh, you'll get over it, I told you so, I didn't like him anyway.

WISEMAN: Oh, sure, absolutely. Because it looks to us like it's a superficial right of passage. Like, oh, you'll move on and get over it.

And frankly, to learn to be silent when somebody is mean to you is not a superficial right of passage. It's actually a profoundly unfortunate right of passage to have. That's the first thing.

And the second thing is, is that if you're ever wondering what it feels like to be 14 years old and people are gossiping about you, think about the last time you were pulled over -- maybe this never happened to anybody -- but you're pulled over for speeding, and there you are, and police person is coming up to you with a big ticket. And not only that, but everybody that you know is seeing you get this ticket. And by the way, if you're not in the car being pulled over and you're driving by, you're looking to see who's in the car and see if you know them.

That's what it feels like to have people gossip about you. So if you're wondering what it feels like, that's sort of the best approximation I can come up with.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well Rosalind, is it a good thing to be in a clique because it makes you -- I don't know, it builds your self- confidence? You feel important, you feel you fit in somewhere? Or is the object here to say, don't feel like you have to fit into a clique. Just be yourself, stand out. And obviously that's a tough thing to do with a teenager.

WISEMAN: Sure.

PHILLIPS: But are cliques OK?

WISEMAN: Groups in and of themselves are fine. It's when they excuse unethical behavior that it's not OK. And so what parents have to do is see their kids for who they are, which is hard, and not be in denial that if their kid is being mean, they're not a bad parent, their kid's not a bad kid. But to not do anything about it, to say, oh, I know my kid would never do that, and if they did, it was because of that other girl who made her do it, then if you don't do that, then you're really abdicating one of your most important responsibilities as a parent. So cliques are not in and of themselves bad. They're just bad things that happen within them. And our responsibility as adults is to step in and say this is unethical behavior.

PHILLIPS: Rosalind Wiseman.

O'BRIEN: One question I've got.

WISEMAN: Sure.

O'BRIEN: What about boys? This doesn't apply to boys at all?

WISEMAN: No, it totally applies to boys.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Miles was a queen bee.

WISEMAN: Right.

O'BRIEN: I feel like I wasn't in the right clique here.

WISEMAN: Right. No, boys do it, too. It's just that it looks different.

So a girl will tell another girl, we're not talking to you and that's it. You're done for. And another boy will put another boy in a trash can everyday after school. But actually, what it teaches is that those kids who are perpetrating that kind of bullying or teasing get to do with that power what they want to kids who don't have it. So for boys and girls it's a very similar lesson.

PHILLIPS: Well Rosalind, I hope you'll raise my daughters. Will you move in...

O'BRIEN: Are you making an announcement?

PHILLIPS: Yes. Oh, boy, I remember how mean those girls could be.

Rosalind Wiseman, the book is "Queen Bees and Wannabes." The movie is "Mean Girls."

O'BRIEN: I want that book.

PHILLIPS: Yes, you want the book?

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You're a meanie.

Thanks, Rosalind. O'BRIEN: I've got some case studies at home.

WISEMAN: OK. Thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: All right. I guess that Miami vice money finally ran out. Wonder how Tubbs is doing? Do you wonder? Well, we do. Don Johnson is his real name, and financially, at least, the story on him not looking so hot. Entertainment headlines are coming up.

Everyone of a certain age knows we all live in a yellow submarine. Now future generations get a little Beatlemania. That's next in "Biz."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: And that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM. Thanks for being with us.

Now to take us through the next hour of political headlines, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS."

Hi, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi there, Miles and Kyra.

Well, Senator Joe Lieberman is challenging political leaders from both parties to strengthen support for the war in Iraq effort here on the home front. I'll sit down with the senator to get his take on the escalating violence and on fellow Democrat John Kerry.

Plus, I'll talk with Bob Woodward about his new book and the reaction it's getting from both sides of the aisle.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

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Aired April 26, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In the world of celebrities and their sometimes equally famous attorneys, we practically need a program to tell the players and the teams.
For more on Michael Jackson's new legal team, we turn to attorney Karen Russell, joining us from Seattle.

Karen, Great to see you again.

KAREN RUSSELL, TRIAL ATTY.: Nice to see you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. It's almost as if like baseball managers, they don't have much longevity. But why is it that in particular these celebrities seem to demand so much from their attorneys?

RUSSELL: Well, I think this could be that Michael Jackson maybe didn't think he would actually be indicted. But when he was, the harsh reality sunk in. But I don't think this is a big deal for him. I mean, Mesereau has a great reputation.

O'BRIEN: It's not a big deal for who?

RUSSELL: For Jackson.

O'BRIEN: For Jackson? Really?

RUSSELL: Yes, and I think that it's sort of overblown, the impact that this will have on this case. I mean, there is a disadvantage in that Geragos was on the case for 14 months. And I'm sure there's a huge, huge, huge case file for Mesereau to digest, but...

O'BRIEN: I should say.

RUSSELL: But it's a pretty straightforward, he said, he said case. So it is not that complex.

O'BRIEN: Well, I mean, what do you think? Was it perhaps the fact that Geragos was involved in the Peterson case in Northern California? And No. 1, that's taking a lot of his time. No. 2, it does kind of bring a cloud with it as far as the jury is concerned, doesn't it?

RUSSELL: Yes, I think it might have brought a little bit of a cloud. And I think the other thing was that Benjamin Brafman was from New York, and so he sort of maybe felt that even with Brafman as second chair, you had an out of state lawyer sort of playing catch-up, I guess, as it were for Geragos.

O'BRIEN: All right, so it's just a matter of what? The amount of attention, the family feels it needs in this case, and in other words, things have ratcheted up now that there's an indictment?

RUSSELL: Yes, well I think things have ratcheted up. And I also think we have to look at it from the point of view of the lawyers as well. I think that Michael Jackson is a handful of a client.

O'BRIEN: Oh, you think so?

RUSSELL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Dancing on the vehicle there with the crowd, yes.

RUSSELL: You know, I do think that the case against Michael Jackson is rather weak. And I am surprised, though, that they are, again, doing the buses and bring your own candles to the candlelight vigil. I am a little surprised about the PR. And just for the PR czars that he has around him and the sort of -- remember that meeting where they had all the advisers in that conference room.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

RUSSELL: So maybe it was like all the conference room guys saying, you know, it's time for a change. But no one seems to be sort of able to wrangle Jackson to not sort of pull the bus and the fan stunts. So we'll see. You know, on Friday, maybe he will show up on time.

O'BRIEN: If he called you up, would you take his case?

RUSSELL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Of course you would.

RUSSELL: Who -- what, especially since I think it is a winnable case. But any criminal defense attorney would want to...

O'BRIEN: I don't think he'd listen to you, Karen.

RUSSELL: I don't know that he listens to anyone. Yes, I mean, that's the thing, it's interesting, he is a 45-year-old man and he has made statements that says, I'm making my own decisions and listen to me, not to the other spokespeople. And on the one hand, he seems firmly driving the case. On the other hand, I think the PR thing has gotten out of hand. And I think it has undercut his case.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about Kobe Bryant. These hearings, first of all, is it accurate to say that the hearings really are, in a sense, the trial, because how the hearings will determine how it goes, right? RUSSELL: Well, I think the hearings are very critical, and I think that the hearings this week, the one about the Rape Shield Law is really -- and also about whether or not Kobe's statement and T- shirt will be allowed are pivotal to Kobe's defense, I think more so than the medical records that would have decided last week.

O'BRIEN: Let's listen to the mother of the alleged victim is talking to the media. Let's listen to her for just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOBE BRYANT'S ACCUSER'S MOTHER: Victims' rights are about standing up for the truth. Victims' rights are about becoming a survivor. I want to thank my daughter for teaching me about courage. I'm proud to be her mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: How does that play among a potential jury pool, do you think?

RUSSELL: Well, I think that the D.A. and her, the alleged victim, the accuser's attorneys, have done a good job on PR in her behalf recently. So I do think that they want to sort of paint her as the perfect victim and say that Kobe Bryant, big, bad Kobe is the root of all the problems in this girl's life. And I think that will actually ultimately backfire. because you know, they're saying she's had to move from place to place because of Kobe's celebrity when you know, I think that she moved after she had one of her suicide attempts, and so -- and you know, there are rumors that she was asked to leave rehab for cause, and you know, and so I don't know -- I'm sorry.

O'BRIEN: Just to wrap it up here, what does your gut tell you? How much will the jury know about this I alleged victim or accuser, whatever you want to call it?

RUSSELL: Well, I think that because she's so unusual and that she came to her rape exam with someone else's semen on her body, I think that she may be able to fall into the Rape Shield statute and get more information than it would be in an ordinary case. This case on so many levels is just out of the ordinary.

O'BRIEN: Karen Russell, thanks very much. Always a pleasure. Appreciate your legal insights. The bill is in the mail, I trust. We'll see you again soon -- Kyra.

RUSSELL: Thanks, Miles.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The pressure mounts on. And Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is feeling the pinch. What really happened during a 1971 anti-war demonstration when war medals and ribbons were tossed in protest? Confronted with the various versions told over the years, Kerry defended his honor in an interview today on ABC's "Good Morning America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn't have to do it. If I was trying to hide something, I would have never stood there in front of everybody and thrown them over the fence. I threw my ribbons over. I threw the medals of two veterans who asked me to throw them over, after the ceremony, completely separate. And I'm the one, if I have something to hide, I'm the one who made it known exactly what happened. To me, it's one in the same. And I'm proud of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, dangerous currents along Florida's coast. Find out what's going on and how to protect yourself and your family get a grip on the rip, next.

A sea change in the food industry and American lives, as an unbelievable number of people get into the low-carb craze.

And if your flowers need some fog lifter? Look no further than your nearest Starbucks. The beans for your greens ahead in biz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you're not counting carbs, what's a person to count? The South Beach diet and other low carbohydrate bibles have birthed a whole a new line of foods people buy for what's not in them. Just another fad, you may ask? CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Low carbs, high proteins, good carbs, bad carbs. We spend a lot of time talking about these issues. But just how much has the low carb craze caught on in the United States?

Well, that was the subject of a new survey by Opinion Dynamics. The numbers may startle you. Take a look, 70 million Americans now on some form of a low carbohydrate diet, 70 million Americans. Twenty- six million Americans calling themselves hard-core low carb diet folks, eating little or no carbs on a day-to-day basis. Pretty remarkable.

Some other numbers out that I find interesting out of this survey. Numbers of products that are new; 1,558 new products over the last couple of years that are designed to be just low or no carb. And those products costing about $85 a month on average for consumers, that's everything from beer to ice cream to spaghetti to breads. All those products that you think of as typically high carb, low carb now with this new low carb craze.

You can also read about it a lot. There's 140 books out there on low carbohydrate diets; 51 new books expected to come out this year.

Here is a sneaky little secret, though. The jury is still out as to whether or not these diets actually work. I guess no big surprise there. If you don't stick with this diet, which many people don't, as far as low carbohydrate diet goes, then you are not going to keep the weight off. While the weight may come off quickly with these low carbohydrate diets, it may not come off as well long term.

There are also some medical concerns, which some critics have raised. The high protein in these diets can be concerning for your kidney, for your liver and for your bones long term. And also those saturated fats, no surprise here, could be adversely effective on your heart and possibly causing strokes later on.

Here is the bottom line. Remember, calories still count. We went through this already with the low fat craze. We'll get the lesson again, with the low carb craze. Calories do count. No matter even if it has no carbs, if you load up on steak and eggs, eventually those calories are going to catch up with you as well. Keep that in mind.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: It's just about the first big decision new parents make, how to feed their baby. What's best for you and your child? Dr. Gupta's week-long series on newborns kicks off on LIVE FROM... in our next hour.

PHILLIPS: And remember the story about the biggest woolly you'd ever seen? Well, a shaggy sheep in New Zealand is about to meet his shearer.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... only on LIVE FROM... today, isn't it? That's right.

PHILLIPS: It's exclusive.

O'BRIEN: Shrek the sheep is about to go bald. Shrek, who has almost 60 pounds of fleece on his back, managed to escape shearers for six years running. But this Wednesday, a champion shearer is going to take it all off for poor Shrek. It's all for a good cause, though. Shrek's fleece will be sold to raise money for a cancer charity. We'll keep you abreast of the situation.

PHILLIPS: All right, now, the comeback of economy car called the Skoda. It was made in the Czech Republic during the communist era.

O'BRIEN: Now it has undergone a transformation, and it really is a pity. CNN's Richard Quest with our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Sleek, luxurious, with lots of gadgets. But is this car a Skoda?

Noisy, smelly and cramped. This is the old Skoda that was the car of choice in this part of the world. Drive on!

(voice-over): And this is the car which most of the world associated with Skoda during communist times. A rather miserable car from a very miserable past. Of course, that wasn't how it was seen during communist times. The films portrayed the Skoda as the people's car of choice. But the Czechoslovak people, everyone like Josef Jandus, owned and drove at least one Skoda during those years.

JOSEF JANDUS, SKODA AFICIONADO (through translator): The first car I bought in 1968. The second one when my daughter was born. The third came with my second wife.

QUEST: The wife is gone, the car's still here.

(on camera): Skoda is, without doubt, one of the great symbols of the Czech Republic, but getting the factory to operate in this fashion, in such a modern way took a great deal of effort and, of course, money.

And that's where Volkswagen came in.

(voice-over): The money bought Skoda and paid for new factories, new models, and with these new models, the Czech people have rekindled their kindness to the car that's made in their own backyard.

JOSEF MEDNIK: I'm sure people love Skoda, as I do. I think Skoda is a symbol of the Czech skill. And it survived many systems.

QUEST: The fact the Czech people are joining the EU won't dramatically affect European sales. Skoda already operates across the continent. But for the psychology and reputation of the cars, then the EU is a very big deal.

JAROSLAV CZERNY, SKODA AUTOS: For Skoda, it is important to increase the image, to combine the image of Skoda in Czech Republic and Czech Republic part of the EU.

QUEST (on camera): One, two, three, four. The sheer number of Skodas on the road, even 14 years after competition arrived, shows the success of the joint venture and the revamped car company. The hope is, of course, there will be many more Skoda examples in the new Europe.

Richard Quest, CNN, Prague.

Seven, eight, nine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: You know, you just can't top that.

O'BRIEN: You send a guy like Richard to Prague and that's what you get.

PHILLIPS: That's what you get.

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes.

When LIVE FROM... returns, dangerous summer on some beaches to tell you about. We'll tell you what you need to know about rip currents. That's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, you should just know that we don't do this a lot. This is like a really huge deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to invite you to have lunch with us and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cool. Then we'll see you tomorrow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Wednesdays, we wear pink.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Next hour, meet the author of the book that inspired the movie that outs the catty cliques who mocked you as a teen. LIVE FROM... sharpens its claws right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, the surf's up on the Florida's Panhandle, but instead of hanging ten, some swimmers are hanging on for dear life. Rip currents are to blame. Over the weekend, lifeguards pulled more than 120 swimmers out of the water. Rip currents are deceptive, and they can be deadly. Chris Brewster, president of the Lifesaving Association live with us from San Diego, California, to talk about staying safe in the water this summer. Hi, Chris.

CHRIS BREWSTER, PRESIDENT, U.S. LIFESAVING ASSOCIATION: Good afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Well, I was looking at these numbers that I saw off your Web site. Rip current rescues in 2003: Hollywood, Florida, 82 out of 109. Santa Rosa Island, 197 of 291. And Sarasota County, 103 of 154. First of all, what's going on, why Florida, and why so many?

BREWSTER: Well, throughout the United States at all surf beaches, rip currents are the primary source of distress. In fact, lifeguards report that over 80 percent of rescues are associated with rip currents.

I think a lot of people are unfamiliar with the phenomenon, but lifeguards know that phenomenon very well.

PHILLIPS: And why are we unfamiliar with this? BREWSTER: Well, I think rip currents have been confused with this word undertow, and rip tides and so forth. And people just don't understand that rip currents are a separate and distinct thing from those things. It's a river of water moving away from the shore, at surf beaches that is produced by surf.

And so I think there just needs to be more attention to it so people understand it better.

PHILLIPS: All right, paying attention, pay attention to the flags, know your beach, know where you're going. But if you get caught in one, what do you do?

BREWSTER: Well, first of all, visit a beach that has lifeguards. We've found that the chance of drowning at a beach with lifeguards is one in 18 million. And that's a pretty good figure of safety. But if you're at a beach with lifeguards or even without, and you're caught in a rip current, they tend to pull directly or a little bit diagonally away from the beach. And what you want to make sure you don't do is try to swim backwards against the current. It's like running against a treadmill. You don't get anywhere.

So you swim along the shore, either north, south, east, west, depending on which way the beach is facing. And then once you're out of the pull of the rip current, swim in to shore.

PHILLIPS: So, Chris, tell us about the roving patrols. Has this made a difference? Where are they? Do we want to go to beaches that only have roving patrols?

BREWSTER: Actually, I think just the other way around. The beaches that are the best protected are those where the lifeguards are on duty watching the water at all times. What's happened down in Pensacola is that they found that their drownings were occurring, not surprisingly, at the beaches where lifeguards weren't on duty. And without adequate resources to put lifeguards everywhere they wanted them, what they decided to do was patrol those unprotected areas. And it seems like while that's not the perfect solution, it's beginning to pay off in a big way. As you can see, those roving patrols had some successes over the weekend.

PHILLIPS: Chris Brewster, thanks for checking in with us.

BREWSTER: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: LIVE FROM... rolls on.

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to CNN. This is LIVE FROM... I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

Their final say. It's closing arguments today in the manslaughter trial of Jayson Williams. Defense attorneys went this morning. The prosecution this afternoon. The former NBA star is charged in the shooting death of his chauffeur just two years ago. Williams says it was an accident.

Improving access to the Internet. In Minnesota, President Bush says he wants broadband available in every corner of the country by 2007. He says it brings education into the living rooms of students, and he called on Congress to ban taxes on broadband access.

The new color of money. Splashes of red, white and blue have been added to $50 bills. The new note was unveiled today. The $20 bill was revamped last year, and the makeover should make the bills harder to counterfeit.

O'BRIEN: Up first this hour: grim scenarios, grizzly results in Iraq. U.S. Marines in Fallujah today were forced to wage war on a mosque from which insurgents had opened fire with mortars, rocket- propelled grenades and automatic rifles. Some 35 miles away in Baghdad, a suspected chemical weapons site exploded just as U.S. troops went in to inspect it.

CNN's Jim Clancy has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Marines fired heavy machine guns in a major flare-up of hostilities in Fallujah, west of Baghdad. Explosions battered hopes that coalition troops would be able to join Iraqi security forces in joint patrols starting Tuesday. Those patrols aimed to force gunmen off the streets and bring back a measure of security.

The battle in Fallujah raged for hours. More than once, a coalition spokesman said mosques were used as staging grounds for attacks on U.S. troops.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: The coalition forces became pinned down by the enemy fire and requested additional support. A quick reaction force, which included air and tank support, arrived at the scene and directed suppressing fire on the mosque, killing eight enemy fighters and damaging the infrastructure of the mosque. As a result of the attack, one coalition soldier died of wounds, with an additional eight soldiers wounded.

CLANCY: U.S. helicopters fired on the mosque with Hellfire laser-guided missiles, sending huge plumes of thick black smoke into the skies, obscuring hopes for a peaceful settlement. Coalition officials say they would continue to pursue a negotiated agreement with religious and community leaders, but in the end it was up to the fighters to choose how this standoff is going to be resolved.

Meantime, Baghdad itself rocked but a powerful blast. Coalition troops were investigating a chemical storehouse in northwest Baghdad when a powerful explosion ripped through the building, killing two coalition soldiers and wounding five others. Eight Iraqi civilians, some of them in adjoining buildings, were injured by the force of the explosion.

KIMMITT: The location where the raid occurred was a chemical store which the owner and his associates were suspected of supplying chemical agents to terrorists, criminals and insurgents. There was also information that suggests these individuals were involved in the production of chemical munitions.

CLANCY: School-age children jumped on damaged U.S. military Humvees after the blast. The U.S. Army was brought in and warning shots were fired to disperse a crowd of several hundred people who had gathered at the site.

(on camera): It's doubtful the coalition will as easily dispel Iraqis' fears about insecurity in their country. A peaceful settlement in Fallujah would go a long way, but that, like so much else in the country, also depends on the insurgents.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: From an Islamist Web site today, claim of responsibility for Saturday's attacks on two Iraqi oil terminals. Three U.S. troops were killed when bomb-laden boats blew up just outside the southern city of Basra. Attacks now attributed, supposedly, admitted by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Al- Zarqawi, you may recall, is the suspected al Qaeda agitator who is believed to have devoted himself to fomenting civil war. Among the Americans, the first member of the U.S. Coast Guard to die in combat since Vietnam.

PHILLIPS: Vice President Dick Cheney goes on the attack, and the campaign heats up as the conversation over Democratic candidate John Kerry's medals turns terse.

CNN's Sean Callebs joins us now with more -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry is calling it a phony controversy. He is trying to put to rest questions about an anti-war rally 33 years ago and whether he really threw his medals away as a form of protest.

It happened back in 1971. And during the rally, a number of veterans tossed their medal away in an anti-war demonstration. Here's what Kerry had to say back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And that was the medals themselves. And so they decided to give them back to their country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many did you give back, John?

KERRY: I gave back -- I counted number six, seven, eight, nine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you were awarded the Bronze Star, a Silver Star, and three Purple Hearts. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Well, now Kerry says he threw his ribbons away, not the actual medals themselves. Kerry received three Purple Hearts, as well as the Bronze and Silver Stars during two tours of Vietnam. He says throwing away the ribbons was symbolic and there was no distinction between tossing away medals and the ribbons. The candidate says he is proud that he stood up and fought against the war.

The Bush-Cheney camp is releasing a salvo of their own today, a new commercial that blasts Kerry. It criticizes the Democrat for his stance on funding the U.S.-led military in the war on terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm George W. Bush, and I approved this message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As our troops defend America in the war on terror, they must have what it takes to win. Yet, John Kerry has repeatedly opposed weapons vital to winning the war on terror: Bradley fighting vehicles, Patriot missiles, B-2 stealth bombers, F-18 fighter jets and more.

Kerry even voted against body armor for our troops on the frontline of the war on terror. John Kerry's record on national security, troubling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: The Bush-Cheney camp says that Kerry did not support vital systems, as you just heard, such as the B-2 bomber, the Patriot missile, the F-18 fighter jet. One TV ad is running nationally beginning today. Nine others will begin running in local markets, as well.

Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney is front and center in the attacks on Kerry today speaking in Missouri. Cheney defended the administration's war on terror and the ongoing operation in Iraq. He said containment is meaningless in the case of al Qaeda, and that rogue regimes are willing to pass along weapons of mass destruction to terrorists -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Sean, how are Democrats countering this?

CALLEBS: Well, the head of the Democratic National Committee is blasting Cheney, calling him "the attack dog in chief." Terry McAuliffe went on to say Cheney hasn't been straight with the American public for four years, so why should he start now. McAuliffe says Cheney is "the guy who took a year to admit the Bush administration sent troops into Iraq without the body armor they needed" -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Sean Callebs live from Washington -- thanks.

O'BRIEN: News across America now. A training drill turns into a real-life rescue on the Potomac River. Sixteen women, all members of a rowing club, were pulled from the water after their racing skulls (ph) flooded and capsized today. Police and fireboats took them to the shore.

A dangerous weekend in the Florida Panhandle. Lifeguards at Pensacola Beach helped pull more than 120 swimmers to shore after they got caught in rip currents. It was the lifeguards' busiest weekend of the year.

A $200,000 bond set for an Ohio priest accused of killing a nun in 1980. Reverend Gerald Robinson charged Friday with strangling and stabbing the nun in a hospital chapel. He did not enter a plea during today's court appearance.

PHILLIPS: Well, parents know you can only prepare yourself so much when having your first child. Today, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta kicks off his five-part series for new parents. He begins a look at some of the biggest dilemmas: to breastfeed or not?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's doing excellent. Very, very good.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of nursing mothers is on the rise. Studies show 70 percent of new moms begin breastfeeding in the hospital. But that number drops dramatically when you check with them just a few months later. Why?

REBECCA SLOAN, MOM: It is hard. People and books that I read have said it's natural, its not supposed to hurt. It hurts. It hurts.

GUPTA: Rebecca Sloan had a hard time getting her baby to nurse at first.

SLOAN: The first two weeks, your nipples are so sore. It's hard because you have to be patient and because of the emotional state that you're in and the lack of sleep that you have.

GUPTA: Rebecca stuck with it. Now her daughter Tegan (ph) is thriving.

SLOAN: It is so natural. Once you get over those hurdles, it's absolutely wonderful.

GUPTA: Research shows breast-fed baby are less likely to get sick, they have fewer ear and chest infections, less gas and diarrhea, and are less likely to suffer from allergies, asthma, diabetes and cancer. Breast-fed babies also have a lower risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and of obesity in childhood. And children who are breast fed do better on IQ tests.

AMY SPANGLER, CHAIRWOMAN, U.S. BREASTFEEDING COMMITTEE: Four months to six months of exclusive breastfeeding is what seems to be needed for babies to get the lifelong benefits that breastfeeding provides.

GUPTA: Breastfeeding saves money, too. You can save up to $1,000 in the first year, compared to buying formula and bottles. Working moms have an even harder time of nursing for more than a few weeks. Going back to work and having to pump breast milk is challenging. Heidi Murkoff, author of "What to Expect When You're Expecting," counsels new moms that any amount of breastfeeding is better than nothing.

HEIDI MURKOFF, "WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN YOU'RE EXPECTING": So if you find you can't fit full-tine breastfeeding it into your schedule, or you just don't have the energy...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Let's go to Washington, and Secretary of State Colin Powell talking Iraq.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: ... they may or may not be using. What we are trying to do is find a way to work with the tribal leaders in the area and the city leaders in Fallujah to put together joint patrols, with coalition and Iraqi personnel working side by side, and see if this would not be a way to give confidence to the citizens of Fallujah and also persuade the armed thugs inside the city that it is in the best interest of the city, people, to lay down the arms. And let's allow these people to return to their homes. Let's allow these people to live freely and participate in the rebuilding not only of their city, but of their country.

So we will take the time necessary to see if there is not a political solution. But as you saw today, when our soldiers and our Marines are attacked, they will respond, and they will respond with force and to protect themselves and to kill those who are trying to kill the dreams and hopes of the Iraqi people.

Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Secretary of State Colin Powell, Foggy Bottom, in front of the State Department headquarters there, talking about the situation in Fallujah. Time for us to take a break.

Were you, a jock, a queen bee, or a wannabe, or maybe a geek? A new movie takes a humorous look at the often-playful and painful world of high school cliques -- or is it cliques?

Which do you prefer, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Cliques.

O'BRIEN: In your clique, was it clique, clique? Anyway, we'll talk about what you can do to help your kid from getting hurt, if it's avoidable at all.

And a man on fire burns up Hollywood. We'll check out what is tops at the box office.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MEAN GIRLS")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "MEAN GIRLS": Now, where you sit in the cafeteria is crucial because you've got everybody there. You've got varsity jocks, unfriendly black hotties, girls who eat their feelings, girls who don't eat anything, desperate wannabes, burnouts, active band geeks, the greatest people you will ever meet, and the worst. Beware of the plastics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: High school cliques, whether you were beat up by one, wanted to be in one, or avoided them like the plague, most all of us got caught up in the drama. And it hasn't changed since the last time you picked up a lunch tray and wondered where to sit.

What you just saw was a clip from the soon to be released movie "Mean Girls." It's based on the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and Other Realities of Adolescence." The author, Rosalind Wiseman, she joins me now from New York.

I don't remember the band geeks making out in the lunchroom. Where did that come from, Rosalind?

ROSALIND WISEMAN, AUTHOR, "QUEEN BEES AND WANNABES": Well, I think that's great.

PHILLIPS: No, seriously, what inspired you to even write the book? Did you go through this? Is your daughter going through it?

WISEMAN: Oh, no. Actually, I have two little kids, three and one. But, actually, I started an organization called the Empower Program 12 years ago so that children wouldn't have to go through these kinds of things. Because, actually, they're pretty important to the people they become.

It's called the Empower Program, and our motto is, "Violence should not be a right of passage." And I've been teaching girls for 12 years, and what I wanted to do with "Queen Bees" is write everything that I thought parents should know about what the lives of their daughters were like.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's interesting. Tell me why you think young girls join these cliques. In your book, you talk about it's like an army and you've got the general and the ranks that go on down.

WISEMAN: Right. Well, I think for the most part it's normal that people want a place to belong. And there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that, within those groups, not just outside of the group, not just when they target somebody who is outside the group, but also within the groups, people can treat each other in incredibly mean and unethical ways.

And also, what you learn, to not say what you want, to allow people to treat you like dirt, to see other people be treated like dirt and say nothing. Those are life lessons that you take with you for the rest of your life that impact the way you have relationships as you get older, from everywhere like intimate relationships to how you deal with your job.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's definitely tougher for girls than it is boys. Let's roll a clip from the movie.

WISEMAN: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your hair looks so sexy pushed back. Katie (ph), will you please tell him his hair looks sexy pushed back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regina (ph) was dangling Aaron (ph) in front of me on purpose. I knew how this would be settled in the animal world. But this was girl world.

Your hair looks sexy pushed back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, Rosalind, knowing what we know now, we would never put up with that. We probably would jump over the table and tackle that girl, right?

WISEMAN: No, actually I run into a lot of women who do the same stuff that they're doing now, unfortunately, that they were doing when they were 14.

PHILLIPS: Really?

WISEMAN: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Why don't they ever grow up?

WISEMAN: Well, I think what happens is that women feel like we're never how to express when we're angry at somebody in straightforward ways. So if we're not taught it, when do we learn?

Some women do learn, but there are a lot of people -- I have to tell you, when I'm speaking around the country, I do it all the time on behalf of the Empower Program. I do this all the time. And the amount of times women come up to me and tell me of the things that they're still dealing with in their jobs or with friends or with parents -- I mean, the next book I'm writing is called "Surviving the Hive (ph)". And it's about parents and how they're dealing with each other in much the same ways.

PHILLIPS: All right. You talk about the relationship between mom and daughter being very important, and how to talk to your daughter when she's going through all of this. A number of landmines that you have in your book. I love it with the bomb symbol.

WISEMAN: Right. PHILLIPS: You say girls can't stand the word "cliques" and they'll get defensive. Is that true?

WISEMAN: Oh, right, absolutely, because they feel like they're being blamed for something that they did not do, which is to be exclusive. So use the word "group" and basically it's the same thing.

PHILLIPS: All right. Don't tell your daughter that gossip is no big deal.

WISEMAN: Right, because it's the lifeblood of many girls. And what I look at as gossip is gossip is the currency, it's the money that girls exchange. And so whoever has the most has the most power.

PHILLIPS: All right. When your daughter is dumped, don't say, eh, you'll get over it, I told you so, I didn't like him anyway.

WISEMAN: Oh, sure, absolutely. Because it looks to us like it's a superficial right of passage. Like, oh, you'll move on and get over it.

And frankly, to learn to be silent when somebody is mean to you is not a superficial right of passage. It's actually a profoundly unfortunate right of passage to have. That's the first thing.

And the second thing is, is that if you're ever wondering what it feels like to be 14 years old and people are gossiping about you, think about the last time you were pulled over -- maybe this never happened to anybody -- but you're pulled over for speeding, and there you are, and police person is coming up to you with a big ticket. And not only that, but everybody that you know is seeing you get this ticket. And by the way, if you're not in the car being pulled over and you're driving by, you're looking to see who's in the car and see if you know them.

That's what it feels like to have people gossip about you. So if you're wondering what it feels like, that's sort of the best approximation I can come up with.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well Rosalind, is it a good thing to be in a clique because it makes you -- I don't know, it builds your self- confidence? You feel important, you feel you fit in somewhere? Or is the object here to say, don't feel like you have to fit into a clique. Just be yourself, stand out. And obviously that's a tough thing to do with a teenager.

WISEMAN: Sure.

PHILLIPS: But are cliques OK?

WISEMAN: Groups in and of themselves are fine. It's when they excuse unethical behavior that it's not OK. And so what parents have to do is see their kids for who they are, which is hard, and not be in denial that if their kid is being mean, they're not a bad parent, their kid's not a bad kid. But to not do anything about it, to say, oh, I know my kid would never do that, and if they did, it was because of that other girl who made her do it, then if you don't do that, then you're really abdicating one of your most important responsibilities as a parent. So cliques are not in and of themselves bad. They're just bad things that happen within them. And our responsibility as adults is to step in and say this is unethical behavior.

PHILLIPS: Rosalind Wiseman.

O'BRIEN: One question I've got.

WISEMAN: Sure.

O'BRIEN: What about boys? This doesn't apply to boys at all?

WISEMAN: No, it totally applies to boys.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Miles was a queen bee.

WISEMAN: Right.

O'BRIEN: I feel like I wasn't in the right clique here.

WISEMAN: Right. No, boys do it, too. It's just that it looks different.

So a girl will tell another girl, we're not talking to you and that's it. You're done for. And another boy will put another boy in a trash can everyday after school. But actually, what it teaches is that those kids who are perpetrating that kind of bullying or teasing get to do with that power what they want to kids who don't have it. So for boys and girls it's a very similar lesson.

PHILLIPS: Well Rosalind, I hope you'll raise my daughters. Will you move in...

O'BRIEN: Are you making an announcement?

PHILLIPS: Yes. Oh, boy, I remember how mean those girls could be.

Rosalind Wiseman, the book is "Queen Bees and Wannabes." The movie is "Mean Girls."

O'BRIEN: I want that book.

PHILLIPS: Yes, you want the book?

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You're a meanie.

Thanks, Rosalind. O'BRIEN: I've got some case studies at home.

WISEMAN: OK. Thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: All right. I guess that Miami vice money finally ran out. Wonder how Tubbs is doing? Do you wonder? Well, we do. Don Johnson is his real name, and financially, at least, the story on him not looking so hot. Entertainment headlines are coming up.

Everyone of a certain age knows we all live in a yellow submarine. Now future generations get a little Beatlemania. That's next in "Biz."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: And that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM. Thanks for being with us.

Now to take us through the next hour of political headlines, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS."

Hi, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi there, Miles and Kyra.

Well, Senator Joe Lieberman is challenging political leaders from both parties to strengthen support for the war in Iraq effort here on the home front. I'll sit down with the senator to get his take on the escalating violence and on fellow Democrat John Kerry.

Plus, I'll talk with Bob Woodward about his new book and the reaction it's getting from both sides of the aisle.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

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