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Fallujah Takes Another Day of Harsh Bombings by U.S.
Aired April 28, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: For more on the battle of Fallujah and the situation in Iraq in general, we turn it over to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello again to you, Miles.
Well in the last few minutes we've had an update from a top military official in the region, Major General John Sattler, the director of operations for the U.S. Central Command. General Sattler has told reporters here in the Pentagon that the current assessment is that there are about 1,500 insurgent fighters inside Fallujah.
A broad range of people. He said no indication of any central leader. They are former Ba'ath Party elements, Republican Guards, foreign terrorists and common criminals and thugs, he said. So about 1,500 insurgents inside that city that Marines are battling against.
General Sattler also telling reporters that additional armor equipment has been sent back to Iraq. Troops originally thinking that the violence level was not such that they would need it. Now some of that armor equipment making its way back.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expected on Capitol Hill in the next hour to talk about all of this. To talk about the administration's view that there is still a political track they can follow to try and get a resolution in Fallujah.
But the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, has just finished a briefing on Capitol Hill with the House Democratic Caucus. And some of their reaction to what Condoleezza Rice told them was very adamant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY WHIP: This is an administration that told us that our troops would be welcomed with roses, instead it's rocket-propelled grenades. This is an administration that told us that the Iraqi government would be able to pay for its own reconstruction and soon. And now it's costing in nearly $200 billion to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic minority leader in the House. But today increasingly U.S. military officials are saying on several fronts that they expect the violence to continue if not grow over the next few weeks as Iraq gets closer to that June 30 transition date for sovereignty. Partial or full sovereignty, they expect more trouble ahead -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.
Meanwhile, two major objectives for U.S. troops in Najaf. Filling in the gaps left by Spanish troops who were recalled by Spain's new prime minister. And dealing with the heavily armed militia of fugitive Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. CNN's Jane Arraf is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: This Army base near Najaf in the middle of the desert is an indication that U.S. military forces are settling in to stay for a while around the holy city. Engineers are here building up the infrastructure and installing air conditioning for what is already starting to be intense heat. Amid sporadic but intensive attacks around the holy city itself, the U.S. military says it is demonstrating its presence.
Now what that has meant in practical terms is an intent firefight nights ago in which the U.S. military says it killed dozens of members of the Mahdi militia, the militia loyal to radical leader Muqtada al- Sadr who has taken over the city of Najaf.
Following that in which they used with the helicopter gunships to attack militia they said were armed with Rocket-Propelled Grenades and weapons including anti-aircraft artillery. The U.S. Army has set up a checkpoint, they say, to demonstrate their presence. This is a checkpoint on a main bridge across the river leading into Kupa (ph) and Najaf.
But military officials here say they are taking a measured approach. They will not enter the holy city. They will start to do things like infrastructure projects if they want to get the word out to people that there is a better alternative to Muqtada al-Sadr. And they're even offering the possibility of former militia members being absorbed into the Iraqi civil defense forces.
At the same time, there is sporadic violence. Mortar attacks as we flew in by helicopter. Mortar attacks on the main base and where a handful of civilian coalition officials are sheltered. They say they're mortared in the day and night. And despite that, they are staying, they say, to demonstrate their presence. The U.S. military says it will continue to demonstrate its presence here outside the holy city.
Jane Arraf, CNN, near Najaf.
(END VIDEOTAPE) O'BRIEN: Let's bring you live pictures now from Fallujah. Once again, this is the U.S. pool, which is assigned to provide material for all the media. That's in recognition of the dangers of covering events in Fallujah.
These live pictures, obviously night has fallen there, eight hours ahead of Eastern time. So about 10:30 local time.
And we do have reports of shots being fired. Perhaps a fire fight underway, although watching this scene right now, don't see much evidence of that just yet.
The U.S. pool correspondent is Karl Penhaul. He's assigned to this camera and is not far from a Marine position. You've been seeing pictures from this location for much of the morning as the Marines engaged what they call defensive responses to fire from insurgents inside the city of Fallujah. Which as we have been telling you, is a Sunni stronghold.
Saddam Hussein celebrating his birthday today in captivity, was a Sunni. And Sunnis ran the country under his long rule. The transition to sovereignty has been rather meddlesome from the view.
And as the cameras zoom in, this is night scope imagery, you're looking at the remnants of some activity on the scene there. CNN's Barbara Starr watching this with us from her vantage point at the Pentagon. Before we get to her, though, let's list on the U.S. pool reporter there, Karl Penhaul.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
KARL PENHAUL, U.S. POOL CORRESPONDENT: ... around 10:00 p.m. local time here in Fallujah. We're pointing east from our position and away ways on the horizon, I would estimate (UNINTELLIGIBLE) probably four or five kilometers away, you can see the flicker of flames, rather a large fire, it appears from here. Even at this distance it is visible. We can see some traces of smoke also crossing the night sky in Fallujah.
This flame, this fire has come after the AC-130 Specter gunship and coalition aircraft has been in action once again. That aircraft pounded a position across in the northeast of Fallujah with what sounded to be Howitzer 105 millimeter cannons, similar to some of the ordnance used last night on two positions closer to where we're standing now. This position (UNINTELLIGIBLE) probably four kilometers away, four or five kilometers away. We're talking in terms there of two or three miles, possibly.
Unclear what that target is. But certainly in that area of northeast Fallujah, there has also been fighting in the course of the day between insurgent forces and coalition Marines. You'll remember that some of the live pictures we brought you earlier in the day, possibly, those were of a fire fight, much closer, about 800 yards from where we're standing now.
That was a firefight between Marines and insurgent forces in the vicinity of Fallujah train station. But I would guess that the position we're now looking at is probably two or three miles back from the train station in the northeast sector of Fallujah.
Certainly according to Marine commanders on the ground here, they have told us that in recent days the northern area of Fallujah has seen much heavier resistance by insurgent forces than anywhere in the southern sections of Fallujah.
We did hear evidence of fighting in that northeastern sector where we're looking at now in the course of the day. And as dusk fell, we saw an F-15 coalition fighter jet pounding at least three bombs into the same area that we can see smoke and flames coming from now. That smoke, that fire, the result of action by an AC-130 Specter gunship approximately 15 or 20 minutes ago.
Now, from the sound of it, it sounded like that position was being pounded with 105 millimeter Howitzer cannon, part of their array of weaponry that Specter gunships carry aboard.
Also we can hear at this time -- and it is possibly a sound that you won't be able to pick up from the camera microphone -- but from at least one mosque that lies due south of where we're standing now, you can hear across the mosque public address system chants and songs, possibly verses from the Quran being recited.
We were told last night when we also heard similar chants coming up from the mosques by one of the military Iraqi translators here at the U.S. Marine post that what the imams or religious leaders were chanting from the mosques was, in fact, a call to arms.
That the imams were calling on insurgent fighters to resist the coalition. And also calling on others not yet involved in the fight against the coalition to take up arms and to join this jihad or holy war against the coalition occupation.
So again tonight we can hear songs and verses coming from at least one mosque due south. I think it would be fair to suppose that possibly similar statements being broadcast tonight as those we were told by military Iraqi translators were being broadcast last night.
From what we can see now at our position, the fire and the smoke from that position two or three miles east of where we're looking seems to have died down somewhat now.
The AC-130 Specter gunship which was still here in the air, but tonight it seems to be flying very high. Just a low drone there in the air. At this point in time, it's much easier to hear the songs and chants coming from the mosque than it is the drone of the AC-130 Specter gunship.
The AC-130 Specter gunship, as I say, was in action last night. It pounded two positions which, during the course of the day, coalition commanders told us were suspected insurgent weapons caches. Possible that the targets that we've seen have been hit tonight. May also have been some kind of weapons cache. The explosion which we didn't capture on camera, but there was a very large secondary explosion once the Howitzer cannons had pounded that position. Again, that was something we saw last night. The presence of those secondary explosions may indicate, though not confirmed at this point, that weapons may have been being stored there or ammunition may have been being stored in that area.
The AC-130 Specter gunships usually, from what we understand, flies at night, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fly at night. It is equipped with sophisticated vision and listening equipment. And a vast array of eavesdropping devices to detect insurgent positions on the ground inside buildings and in the street.
And then once it has detected those positions, it does have on board cannons and machine guns, rockets and missiles, too, I understand. And this is what we've seen tonight, detecting insurgent positions then using the on board weaponry to take out those positions.
This is Karl Penhaul reporting for the U.S. networks pool out of northwest Fallujah, Iraq.
O'BRIEN: U.S. pool correspondent Karl Penhaul giving us an up to date report on what is going on in Fallujah right now. We'll keep that picture up. And we'll listen to him to come back up and go to him as soon as that occurs.
In the meantime, let's go to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, let's put this in a little bit of context as to the overall strategy. The operative word was cease-fire, and the other operative word was negotiation. Lay that against the picture we see here and it is hard to reconcile the two, isn't it?
STARR: It is indeed, Miles. This is a tactical picture you are seeing on the ground in Fallujah at a particular point in time. Through this night scope picture apparently a very large explosion. Karl Penhaul telling us that AC-130 gunships have been in the air. Those are very precise weapons.
Perhaps this is a secondary explosion in a ground target. Perhaps some sort of ammunition facility that was struck setting off these large secondary explosions, we aren't sure yet. But typically that is what happens in these cases.
Now, on a broader level, on a strategic level, the administrations view is still at this point in time that they want to give this political track a chance to work. Several fronts there. They want to work with the Fallujah leaders. They want to work with Iraqi authorities. They want to have these discussions and see if they can bring some sort of order to Fallujah without a full military assault into the city.
And in large part, you know, the clock is ticking. How many days -- the question is going to be, how many days can the Marines sit outside Fallujah, can military leaders say they are trying to reach an agreement, but time is running out? These are the words we hear day after day.
But senior military officials are saying, sure, they could go in. They could launch an attack on the city. But that will not solve the insurgent problem in Iraq. That they can't eradicate it on their own, that there is no military solution to the problem of the insurgency, ultimately.
There is a political solution, they believe, with the military providing an additional option, a political solution, economic rebuilding, the transition to Iraqi authority.
They say all of that is going to have to take place for an ultimate political solution in Fallujah. Of course, the question is will time run out before all of that can happen?
O'BRIEN: Barbara, I wonder if it's really -- if it's realistic to consider the possibility of political negotiations with people who are bent on what they call martyrdom?
STARR: Well, to be clear, one of the things they're trying to do in these so-called negotiations is work with the people they feel they've identified as the political leadership of the city, if you will.
Fallujah city leaders who they hope don't want the insurgents in their town, who they hope will turn against the insurgency and drive them out to try and bring back some peace and economic and real security to the city. They want to use the city leaders as an incentive, if you will, to drive the insurgents out.
Whether that is going to work or not still remains an increasingly uncertain question. We now know from recent briefing here in the Pentagon about 1,500 insurgents in the city of Fallujah. A broad range of people, former Ba'ath Party leaders, foreign fighters who have come in, common criminals, thugs, prominent Sunnis.
Just a whole different range of people with different motivations, with different types of loyalties to different political, cultural, tribal, religious groups. A very complex fabric.
So in looking for a long-term solution, their hope is that the city leaders of Fallujah will eventually be the motivation and get some Iraqi security forces back into the city.
But when you look at these pictures, Miles, what are we, now in perhaps the fourth day of major fire fights across the city? The Marines saying -- continuing to say that these are defensive fights in response to attacks from the insurgents.
This picture you're seeing on the air right now certainly does not look like a city in which a cease-fire is in place. The Marines on the ground very frustrated.
And as reporters have said, for the Marines on the ground, for the Marines on the front line, cease-fire is not a very relevant word to these frontline combat troops which are getting wounded, are taking casualties and fatalities. This is not a cease-fire to them.
Cease-fire may be a strategic political word that is being used for the men. For the men on the ground, it is full out battle.
O'BRIEN: Let's bring in CNN's Ken Robinson, security analyst for us. Has a long background in special operations.
Ken, let's talk about these patrols that have been talked about and yet have not materialized. Joint U.S./Iraqi patrols. I've read that many of the Marines on the ground there are calling them, quite frankly, suicide patrols. What would be the goal of those patrols at this point? Would they be a foolhardy idea?
KEN ROBINSON, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Barbara Starr made a real key point a minute ago when she said we're looking at the tactical level of war. Simultaneous, there are two other levels of war...
O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson, I apologize. Mr. Penhaul is back with us, I believe. Karl Penhaul, U.S. pool reporter. Let's listen for a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
PENHAUL: ... across the city and approximately two or three miles, I would guess, out towards the east. We can see the afterglow of the fire, a black plume of smoke, you may be able to make out on the night vision camera. That's the result of a pounding that position has just received by coalition AC-130 Specter gunship about half an hour ago now, 20 minutes ago.
Possibly, the AC-130 gunship began opening fire at that position with, we believe, 105 millimeter Howitzer cannons. That's the area where one of two fire fights that were going on in the course of the day was taking place.
The second firefight, of course, was taking place during the day with those pictures that we brought to you earlier from a live position here on the northwest edge of Fallujah. The second firefight was very much closer to it. Around Fallujah train station.
But what we're looking at now is the position probably two or three miles back from Fallujah train station. Still on the northern edge but on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.
Unclear precisely what the target is. We have had no confirmation on the ground of what that target may have been, but certainly over the last two nights, the AC-130 Spectre gunships have been in action, using a sophisticated array of eavesdropping devices on board to try and detect insurgent positions and insurgent weapons and ammunitions dumps, and then using an on board array of weaponry which includes cannons, machine guns and rockets to then destroy those insurgent positions.
So we suspect that this is what has happened again tonight when those 105-millimeter Howitzer cannons began pounding that position. We did see a very large secondary explosion. A shower of sparks blew into the sky. Flames leapt very high in the first instance. And now we can possibly make out on the night vision scope of the camera, black smoke rising through the sky.
So certainly a very large target, especially since we're talking of the target was probably two or three miles away from our position. And the strike was still very visible from here.
Now, to the south of where we're standing, and it's a sound that possibly you won't be able to pick up on the camera microphone, there are two sounds, in fact.
We can still hear the low drone of the AC-130 gunship flying across Fallujah's night sky. That airplanes flies blackout. So possibly we won't be able to make anything of that. Make out its silhouette. Certainly, it's carrying no flashing lights on board.
The second sound I was referring to is the sound of fairly loud chants and recitations coming from the mosque that lies south of the rooftop where we're now standing. Very late now for evening prayers. So evening Muslim prayers will have ended by now. So this a special event, so to speak.
Last night, also, when the AC-130 gunship was in action we heard some of the local religious leaders taking to the public address systems of the mosque and chanting. This again is what's happening tonight.
And we are told by one of the Iraqi military translators here at the Marine base that these were, in fact, a call to arms to the insurgents, urging them to continue to fight, calling on others to wage Jihad or holy war against the coalition forces.
Looking again east, looking, focusing two or three miles east of the position of the rooftop where we're standing, we can see again clearly a large number of flames licking up, thick black smoke rising through the Fallujah sky.
There have been no further strikes by the AC-130 Spectre gunship, but it does look certainly in the position that it struck about 20 or 25 minutes ago, there was certainly something very flammable there.
Last night we -- Last night we were told by coalition commanders that one of the targets of last night's air strikes was an insurgent weapons and ammunitions dump. In that case last night we saw large secondary explosions.
Tonight we've seen the same thing. That may indicate that tonight's target was a weapons or ammunitions dump, although at this stage, no confirmation of that.
But certainly, as we can see, the flames are reviving there and licking high into the night sky. I say high. It might only appear as a pinprick in the camera on the horizon right now, but that position is about two or three miles from where we're standing. So you'll appreciate that certainly on the ground and up close, those flames must be indeed very high. And certainly we can see black smoke now billowing vigorously from that position.
The AC-130 aircraft we can still hear droning overhead. It's been circling now for the best part of three-quarters of an hour.
Those AC-130 Spectre gunships carry a pretty sophisticated array of weaponry on board but also a sophisticated array of eavesdropping devices. And that, we're told by coalition sources, enabled it to hunt down suspected insurgent positions, insurgent hideouts, insurgent weapons dumps.
And then, once they've been detected, to use the onboard weaponry to try to take out those positions. And that certainly seems to have been what has happened tonight.
As I say, the second night in a row that the AC-130 gunships have been hitting targets on the northern edge of Fallujah. Last night it took out two targets on the northwest edge of Fallujah. Tonight, the position we're looking at is on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.
In the course of the day, as well, during daylight hours there were very heavy gun battles between insurgents and coalition forces. One of those gun battles took place close to the area that we're looking at now in the northeastern sector of Fallujah.
Very difficult from this position to hear what was going on during that gunfight. But towards dusk, we did see from our vantage point an F-15 fighter plane, a coalition aircraft making about three runs. We counted three runs. And dropping three bombs on a position that seems to be very close to the area that's now on fire.
Although obviously this fire here currently has been started by firing -- cannon fire. We understand from the AC-130 gunship.
There was also another gun battle between coalition forces and insurgents in the course of the day. That started about mid-afternoon local time and was much closer to our vantage point, approximately 800 yards from our vantage point around the area of Fallujah train station. Gunfights between insurgent fighters, who were firing rocket-propelled grenades, and a U.S. Marines sniper team.
Later on, U.S. Marines attack helicopters were called into the fray. And they sent in rockets and machine gun fire into at least three buildings that were believed to be housing insurgent fighters.
But this evening, certainly no repeat of the gun battles in the northwestern sector of Fallujah. But what we do hear in this area is the sound of chants and songs coming from one of the local mosques. That appears to be the religious leaders firing up the public address system.
And last night certainly one of the Iraqi military translators here at the Marine post did tell us that the religious leaders are, across the public address systems of the mosques, putting out a call to arms for the insurgent fighters, urging them to continue fighting the coalition, fighting the occupation.
You can now hear from some several other mosques, in fact, also songs and chants coming from them. Possibly some kind of act of defiance in the light of the coalition air strikes tonight but unclear exactly what they're saying at this stage until, again, the Iraqi military translators have time to listen in on those songs and chants and see what exactly is being said there.
This is Karl Penhaul, reporting for the U.S. networks pool on the northwest edge of Fallujah, Iraq.
O'BRIEN: And as the U.S. Pool correspondent Karl Penhaul takes a break there, we'll continue to show you these pictures.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 28, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: For more on the battle of Fallujah and the situation in Iraq in general, we turn it over to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello again to you, Miles.
Well in the last few minutes we've had an update from a top military official in the region, Major General John Sattler, the director of operations for the U.S. Central Command. General Sattler has told reporters here in the Pentagon that the current assessment is that there are about 1,500 insurgent fighters inside Fallujah.
A broad range of people. He said no indication of any central leader. They are former Ba'ath Party elements, Republican Guards, foreign terrorists and common criminals and thugs, he said. So about 1,500 insurgents inside that city that Marines are battling against.
General Sattler also telling reporters that additional armor equipment has been sent back to Iraq. Troops originally thinking that the violence level was not such that they would need it. Now some of that armor equipment making its way back.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expected on Capitol Hill in the next hour to talk about all of this. To talk about the administration's view that there is still a political track they can follow to try and get a resolution in Fallujah.
But the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, has just finished a briefing on Capitol Hill with the House Democratic Caucus. And some of their reaction to what Condoleezza Rice told them was very adamant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY WHIP: This is an administration that told us that our troops would be welcomed with roses, instead it's rocket-propelled grenades. This is an administration that told us that the Iraqi government would be able to pay for its own reconstruction and soon. And now it's costing in nearly $200 billion to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic minority leader in the House. But today increasingly U.S. military officials are saying on several fronts that they expect the violence to continue if not grow over the next few weeks as Iraq gets closer to that June 30 transition date for sovereignty. Partial or full sovereignty, they expect more trouble ahead -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.
Meanwhile, two major objectives for U.S. troops in Najaf. Filling in the gaps left by Spanish troops who were recalled by Spain's new prime minister. And dealing with the heavily armed militia of fugitive Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. CNN's Jane Arraf is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: This Army base near Najaf in the middle of the desert is an indication that U.S. military forces are settling in to stay for a while around the holy city. Engineers are here building up the infrastructure and installing air conditioning for what is already starting to be intense heat. Amid sporadic but intensive attacks around the holy city itself, the U.S. military says it is demonstrating its presence.
Now what that has meant in practical terms is an intent firefight nights ago in which the U.S. military says it killed dozens of members of the Mahdi militia, the militia loyal to radical leader Muqtada al- Sadr who has taken over the city of Najaf.
Following that in which they used with the helicopter gunships to attack militia they said were armed with Rocket-Propelled Grenades and weapons including anti-aircraft artillery. The U.S. Army has set up a checkpoint, they say, to demonstrate their presence. This is a checkpoint on a main bridge across the river leading into Kupa (ph) and Najaf.
But military officials here say they are taking a measured approach. They will not enter the holy city. They will start to do things like infrastructure projects if they want to get the word out to people that there is a better alternative to Muqtada al-Sadr. And they're even offering the possibility of former militia members being absorbed into the Iraqi civil defense forces.
At the same time, there is sporadic violence. Mortar attacks as we flew in by helicopter. Mortar attacks on the main base and where a handful of civilian coalition officials are sheltered. They say they're mortared in the day and night. And despite that, they are staying, they say, to demonstrate their presence. The U.S. military says it will continue to demonstrate its presence here outside the holy city.
Jane Arraf, CNN, near Najaf.
(END VIDEOTAPE) O'BRIEN: Let's bring you live pictures now from Fallujah. Once again, this is the U.S. pool, which is assigned to provide material for all the media. That's in recognition of the dangers of covering events in Fallujah.
These live pictures, obviously night has fallen there, eight hours ahead of Eastern time. So about 10:30 local time.
And we do have reports of shots being fired. Perhaps a fire fight underway, although watching this scene right now, don't see much evidence of that just yet.
The U.S. pool correspondent is Karl Penhaul. He's assigned to this camera and is not far from a Marine position. You've been seeing pictures from this location for much of the morning as the Marines engaged what they call defensive responses to fire from insurgents inside the city of Fallujah. Which as we have been telling you, is a Sunni stronghold.
Saddam Hussein celebrating his birthday today in captivity, was a Sunni. And Sunnis ran the country under his long rule. The transition to sovereignty has been rather meddlesome from the view.
And as the cameras zoom in, this is night scope imagery, you're looking at the remnants of some activity on the scene there. CNN's Barbara Starr watching this with us from her vantage point at the Pentagon. Before we get to her, though, let's list on the U.S. pool reporter there, Karl Penhaul.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
KARL PENHAUL, U.S. POOL CORRESPONDENT: ... around 10:00 p.m. local time here in Fallujah. We're pointing east from our position and away ways on the horizon, I would estimate (UNINTELLIGIBLE) probably four or five kilometers away, you can see the flicker of flames, rather a large fire, it appears from here. Even at this distance it is visible. We can see some traces of smoke also crossing the night sky in Fallujah.
This flame, this fire has come after the AC-130 Specter gunship and coalition aircraft has been in action once again. That aircraft pounded a position across in the northeast of Fallujah with what sounded to be Howitzer 105 millimeter cannons, similar to some of the ordnance used last night on two positions closer to where we're standing now. This position (UNINTELLIGIBLE) probably four kilometers away, four or five kilometers away. We're talking in terms there of two or three miles, possibly.
Unclear what that target is. But certainly in that area of northeast Fallujah, there has also been fighting in the course of the day between insurgent forces and coalition Marines. You'll remember that some of the live pictures we brought you earlier in the day, possibly, those were of a fire fight, much closer, about 800 yards from where we're standing now.
That was a firefight between Marines and insurgent forces in the vicinity of Fallujah train station. But I would guess that the position we're now looking at is probably two or three miles back from the train station in the northeast sector of Fallujah.
Certainly according to Marine commanders on the ground here, they have told us that in recent days the northern area of Fallujah has seen much heavier resistance by insurgent forces than anywhere in the southern sections of Fallujah.
We did hear evidence of fighting in that northeastern sector where we're looking at now in the course of the day. And as dusk fell, we saw an F-15 coalition fighter jet pounding at least three bombs into the same area that we can see smoke and flames coming from now. That smoke, that fire, the result of action by an AC-130 Specter gunship approximately 15 or 20 minutes ago.
Now, from the sound of it, it sounded like that position was being pounded with 105 millimeter Howitzer cannon, part of their array of weaponry that Specter gunships carry aboard.
Also we can hear at this time -- and it is possibly a sound that you won't be able to pick up from the camera microphone -- but from at least one mosque that lies due south of where we're standing now, you can hear across the mosque public address system chants and songs, possibly verses from the Quran being recited.
We were told last night when we also heard similar chants coming up from the mosques by one of the military Iraqi translators here at the U.S. Marine post that what the imams or religious leaders were chanting from the mosques was, in fact, a call to arms.
That the imams were calling on insurgent fighters to resist the coalition. And also calling on others not yet involved in the fight against the coalition to take up arms and to join this jihad or holy war against the coalition occupation.
So again tonight we can hear songs and verses coming from at least one mosque due south. I think it would be fair to suppose that possibly similar statements being broadcast tonight as those we were told by military Iraqi translators were being broadcast last night.
From what we can see now at our position, the fire and the smoke from that position two or three miles east of where we're looking seems to have died down somewhat now.
The AC-130 Specter gunship which was still here in the air, but tonight it seems to be flying very high. Just a low drone there in the air. At this point in time, it's much easier to hear the songs and chants coming from the mosque than it is the drone of the AC-130 Specter gunship.
The AC-130 Specter gunship, as I say, was in action last night. It pounded two positions which, during the course of the day, coalition commanders told us were suspected insurgent weapons caches. Possible that the targets that we've seen have been hit tonight. May also have been some kind of weapons cache. The explosion which we didn't capture on camera, but there was a very large secondary explosion once the Howitzer cannons had pounded that position. Again, that was something we saw last night. The presence of those secondary explosions may indicate, though not confirmed at this point, that weapons may have been being stored there or ammunition may have been being stored in that area.
The AC-130 Specter gunships usually, from what we understand, flies at night, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fly at night. It is equipped with sophisticated vision and listening equipment. And a vast array of eavesdropping devices to detect insurgent positions on the ground inside buildings and in the street.
And then once it has detected those positions, it does have on board cannons and machine guns, rockets and missiles, too, I understand. And this is what we've seen tonight, detecting insurgent positions then using the on board weaponry to take out those positions.
This is Karl Penhaul reporting for the U.S. networks pool out of northwest Fallujah, Iraq.
O'BRIEN: U.S. pool correspondent Karl Penhaul giving us an up to date report on what is going on in Fallujah right now. We'll keep that picture up. And we'll listen to him to come back up and go to him as soon as that occurs.
In the meantime, let's go to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, let's put this in a little bit of context as to the overall strategy. The operative word was cease-fire, and the other operative word was negotiation. Lay that against the picture we see here and it is hard to reconcile the two, isn't it?
STARR: It is indeed, Miles. This is a tactical picture you are seeing on the ground in Fallujah at a particular point in time. Through this night scope picture apparently a very large explosion. Karl Penhaul telling us that AC-130 gunships have been in the air. Those are very precise weapons.
Perhaps this is a secondary explosion in a ground target. Perhaps some sort of ammunition facility that was struck setting off these large secondary explosions, we aren't sure yet. But typically that is what happens in these cases.
Now, on a broader level, on a strategic level, the administrations view is still at this point in time that they want to give this political track a chance to work. Several fronts there. They want to work with the Fallujah leaders. They want to work with Iraqi authorities. They want to have these discussions and see if they can bring some sort of order to Fallujah without a full military assault into the city.
And in large part, you know, the clock is ticking. How many days -- the question is going to be, how many days can the Marines sit outside Fallujah, can military leaders say they are trying to reach an agreement, but time is running out? These are the words we hear day after day.
But senior military officials are saying, sure, they could go in. They could launch an attack on the city. But that will not solve the insurgent problem in Iraq. That they can't eradicate it on their own, that there is no military solution to the problem of the insurgency, ultimately.
There is a political solution, they believe, with the military providing an additional option, a political solution, economic rebuilding, the transition to Iraqi authority.
They say all of that is going to have to take place for an ultimate political solution in Fallujah. Of course, the question is will time run out before all of that can happen?
O'BRIEN: Barbara, I wonder if it's really -- if it's realistic to consider the possibility of political negotiations with people who are bent on what they call martyrdom?
STARR: Well, to be clear, one of the things they're trying to do in these so-called negotiations is work with the people they feel they've identified as the political leadership of the city, if you will.
Fallujah city leaders who they hope don't want the insurgents in their town, who they hope will turn against the insurgency and drive them out to try and bring back some peace and economic and real security to the city. They want to use the city leaders as an incentive, if you will, to drive the insurgents out.
Whether that is going to work or not still remains an increasingly uncertain question. We now know from recent briefing here in the Pentagon about 1,500 insurgents in the city of Fallujah. A broad range of people, former Ba'ath Party leaders, foreign fighters who have come in, common criminals, thugs, prominent Sunnis.
Just a whole different range of people with different motivations, with different types of loyalties to different political, cultural, tribal, religious groups. A very complex fabric.
So in looking for a long-term solution, their hope is that the city leaders of Fallujah will eventually be the motivation and get some Iraqi security forces back into the city.
But when you look at these pictures, Miles, what are we, now in perhaps the fourth day of major fire fights across the city? The Marines saying -- continuing to say that these are defensive fights in response to attacks from the insurgents.
This picture you're seeing on the air right now certainly does not look like a city in which a cease-fire is in place. The Marines on the ground very frustrated.
And as reporters have said, for the Marines on the ground, for the Marines on the front line, cease-fire is not a very relevant word to these frontline combat troops which are getting wounded, are taking casualties and fatalities. This is not a cease-fire to them.
Cease-fire may be a strategic political word that is being used for the men. For the men on the ground, it is full out battle.
O'BRIEN: Let's bring in CNN's Ken Robinson, security analyst for us. Has a long background in special operations.
Ken, let's talk about these patrols that have been talked about and yet have not materialized. Joint U.S./Iraqi patrols. I've read that many of the Marines on the ground there are calling them, quite frankly, suicide patrols. What would be the goal of those patrols at this point? Would they be a foolhardy idea?
KEN ROBINSON, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Barbara Starr made a real key point a minute ago when she said we're looking at the tactical level of war. Simultaneous, there are two other levels of war...
O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson, I apologize. Mr. Penhaul is back with us, I believe. Karl Penhaul, U.S. pool reporter. Let's listen for a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
PENHAUL: ... across the city and approximately two or three miles, I would guess, out towards the east. We can see the afterglow of the fire, a black plume of smoke, you may be able to make out on the night vision camera. That's the result of a pounding that position has just received by coalition AC-130 Specter gunship about half an hour ago now, 20 minutes ago.
Possibly, the AC-130 gunship began opening fire at that position with, we believe, 105 millimeter Howitzer cannons. That's the area where one of two fire fights that were going on in the course of the day was taking place.
The second firefight, of course, was taking place during the day with those pictures that we brought to you earlier from a live position here on the northwest edge of Fallujah. The second firefight was very much closer to it. Around Fallujah train station.
But what we're looking at now is the position probably two or three miles back from Fallujah train station. Still on the northern edge but on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.
Unclear precisely what the target is. We have had no confirmation on the ground of what that target may have been, but certainly over the last two nights, the AC-130 Spectre gunships have been in action, using a sophisticated array of eavesdropping devices on board to try and detect insurgent positions and insurgent weapons and ammunitions dumps, and then using an on board array of weaponry which includes cannons, machine guns and rockets to then destroy those insurgent positions.
So we suspect that this is what has happened again tonight when those 105-millimeter Howitzer cannons began pounding that position. We did see a very large secondary explosion. A shower of sparks blew into the sky. Flames leapt very high in the first instance. And now we can possibly make out on the night vision scope of the camera, black smoke rising through the sky.
So certainly a very large target, especially since we're talking of the target was probably two or three miles away from our position. And the strike was still very visible from here.
Now, to the south of where we're standing, and it's a sound that possibly you won't be able to pick up on the camera microphone, there are two sounds, in fact.
We can still hear the low drone of the AC-130 gunship flying across Fallujah's night sky. That airplanes flies blackout. So possibly we won't be able to make anything of that. Make out its silhouette. Certainly, it's carrying no flashing lights on board.
The second sound I was referring to is the sound of fairly loud chants and recitations coming from the mosque that lies south of the rooftop where we're now standing. Very late now for evening prayers. So evening Muslim prayers will have ended by now. So this a special event, so to speak.
Last night, also, when the AC-130 gunship was in action we heard some of the local religious leaders taking to the public address systems of the mosque and chanting. This again is what's happening tonight.
And we are told by one of the Iraqi military translators here at the Marine base that these were, in fact, a call to arms to the insurgents, urging them to continue to fight, calling on others to wage Jihad or holy war against the coalition forces.
Looking again east, looking, focusing two or three miles east of the position of the rooftop where we're standing, we can see again clearly a large number of flames licking up, thick black smoke rising through the Fallujah sky.
There have been no further strikes by the AC-130 Spectre gunship, but it does look certainly in the position that it struck about 20 or 25 minutes ago, there was certainly something very flammable there.
Last night we -- Last night we were told by coalition commanders that one of the targets of last night's air strikes was an insurgent weapons and ammunitions dump. In that case last night we saw large secondary explosions.
Tonight we've seen the same thing. That may indicate that tonight's target was a weapons or ammunitions dump, although at this stage, no confirmation of that.
But certainly, as we can see, the flames are reviving there and licking high into the night sky. I say high. It might only appear as a pinprick in the camera on the horizon right now, but that position is about two or three miles from where we're standing. So you'll appreciate that certainly on the ground and up close, those flames must be indeed very high. And certainly we can see black smoke now billowing vigorously from that position.
The AC-130 aircraft we can still hear droning overhead. It's been circling now for the best part of three-quarters of an hour.
Those AC-130 Spectre gunships carry a pretty sophisticated array of weaponry on board but also a sophisticated array of eavesdropping devices. And that, we're told by coalition sources, enabled it to hunt down suspected insurgent positions, insurgent hideouts, insurgent weapons dumps.
And then, once they've been detected, to use the onboard weaponry to try to take out those positions. And that certainly seems to have been what has happened tonight.
As I say, the second night in a row that the AC-130 gunships have been hitting targets on the northern edge of Fallujah. Last night it took out two targets on the northwest edge of Fallujah. Tonight, the position we're looking at is on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.
In the course of the day, as well, during daylight hours there were very heavy gun battles between insurgents and coalition forces. One of those gun battles took place close to the area that we're looking at now in the northeastern sector of Fallujah.
Very difficult from this position to hear what was going on during that gunfight. But towards dusk, we did see from our vantage point an F-15 fighter plane, a coalition aircraft making about three runs. We counted three runs. And dropping three bombs on a position that seems to be very close to the area that's now on fire.
Although obviously this fire here currently has been started by firing -- cannon fire. We understand from the AC-130 gunship.
There was also another gun battle between coalition forces and insurgents in the course of the day. That started about mid-afternoon local time and was much closer to our vantage point, approximately 800 yards from our vantage point around the area of Fallujah train station. Gunfights between insurgent fighters, who were firing rocket-propelled grenades, and a U.S. Marines sniper team.
Later on, U.S. Marines attack helicopters were called into the fray. And they sent in rockets and machine gun fire into at least three buildings that were believed to be housing insurgent fighters.
But this evening, certainly no repeat of the gun battles in the northwestern sector of Fallujah. But what we do hear in this area is the sound of chants and songs coming from one of the local mosques. That appears to be the religious leaders firing up the public address system.
And last night certainly one of the Iraqi military translators here at the Marine post did tell us that the religious leaders are, across the public address systems of the mosques, putting out a call to arms for the insurgent fighters, urging them to continue fighting the coalition, fighting the occupation.
You can now hear from some several other mosques, in fact, also songs and chants coming from them. Possibly some kind of act of defiance in the light of the coalition air strikes tonight but unclear exactly what they're saying at this stage until, again, the Iraqi military translators have time to listen in on those songs and chants and see what exactly is being said there.
This is Karl Penhaul, reporting for the U.S. networks pool on the northwest edge of Fallujah, Iraq.
O'BRIEN: And as the U.S. Pool correspondent Karl Penhaul takes a break there, we'll continue to show you these pictures.
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