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Bush, Cheney Meet with 9/11 Panel; 8 U.S. Soldier Killed in South Iraq

Aired April 29, 2004 - 12:58   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Closed door session, President Bush and Vice President Cheney on the record with the 9/11 Commission. President Bush expected to talk about it this hour from the Rose Garden. We'll bring it to you.
A deadly bombing near Baghdad, sporadic fighting with insurgents in Fallujah, is America winning the bigger battle for the hearts and minds of Iraqis?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was just drifting out there for four hours. So he was -- he had about another hour to live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Dive into danger, a swimmer left at sea, but the Boy Scouts were prepared, as always.

And would you pay $2 million to spend 30 seconds with your friends? You would, if they were these "Friends."

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off today. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

Up first this hour, three hours, 10 minutes, on 9/11: President Bush and Vice President Cheney have just wrapped up their long- awaited, unsworn, behind-closed-doors appearances before the independent panel investigating September 11. Moments from now, Mr. Bush is due to address the public from the White House Rose Garden. We'll bring it to you. In between let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash.

Dana, What do we know about the meeting?

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, we know it lasted about an hour -- even more than an hour longer than it was slated to last. It wrapped up, we are told, about 12:40 Eastern. That was about 3 1/2 hours long. It started promptly at 9:30 a.m. Eastern.

We do know, as you mentioned, that this was a, of course, behind- closed-doors meeting with the president and vice president being interviewed together by all 10 members of the 9/11 Commission. It was done without a formal transcription. No stenographer was there. It was simply the members of the commission taking notes, the chief White House counsel taking notes and two members of his staff also doing the same.

Now a couple of members of the commission did leave a little bit early, but most were there for the entire time. And we are, as you said, waiting to hear from the president himself in about 15 minutes, for him to give his side of the story, if you will, of what he said behind closed doors, about his actions leading up to 9/11, what the administration did and did not do, perhaps, and the questions that he was asked and what he believes he was able to impart to the commission.

We were also, Miles, expecting some sort of statement from the commission, although we do not expect a lot detail out of this meeting. Both members of the commission and members of the White House staff have told us that this is mostly or mainly classified information and this is something that they will keep under wraps, particularly at this time.

We are going to, of course, get a full report from the commission in July -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Dana, a word on the ground rules here. Why did the president and vice president insist that it be unsworn testimony?

BASH: Well, this is something that has -- there is precedent for this, to do simple interviews without sworn testimony. The former President Clinton was also simply interviewed by the commission, as was former Vice President Al Gore. They weren't interviewed under oath. So this is sort of keeping with what they are doing with the most senior officials that they are talking to.

The other part of the ground rules, which is interesting, and was controversial, obviously, is the fact that the president and vice president did appear before the commission together, simultaneously. Many Democrats question this, suggested that the vice president and president were trying to keep their story straight and not contradict one another.

The White House, for its part, has been defending this move this week. The White House counsel telling us simply that this is not a criminal investigation, it is a fact-finding mission, and they felt that it was a good way to give the panel their information by having the president and vice president together -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Dana, the White House offering any guidance on what the president will be saying at 1:15, a little more than 10 minutes from now, we should bring that to you live as he speaks from the Rose Garden?

BASH: Well, we expect him to give his readout of what he said to the panel, obviously in a declassified way. We do expect him to say similar things that we've heard from him in the past, about the lead up to 9/11, particularly the fact, from his point of view, that yes he had some information about some potential threat to the homeland.

We of course reported a lot about this daily briefing that he got in August, saying that bin Laden -- Osama bin Laden, was planning some attacks on the homeland. But we expect him to say, as he said in the past, that he had no specific information that was actionable, nothing that told him that planes were actually going to be used to fly into towers and into the Pentagon. But we do expect the president, essentially, to get out there and tell the public his side of the story, because this was done in private.

O'BRIEN: Be the first to tell, it always helps. Dana Bash, at the White House. Thank you very much.

Just to reiterate, that's coming up in about 10 minutes time, live from the Rose Garden, the president will talk. And we will bring it to you live, of course.

Let's turn our attention now to Iraq. No deal in Fallujah and not much of a break either in the pitched battles between U.S. Marines and their well-armed if outclassed opponents. Earlier today, Marines in that flashpoint city west of Baghdad told reporters they'd agreed to pull back in favor of an all-Iraqi Fallujah protective army.

But U.S. officials in Baghdad say that's premature at best, and we now know just how premature. Sunset brought another burst of ground combat and airstrikes. Around the Iraqi capital, 10 U.S. troops killed today in three attacks. CNN's Ben Wedeman joining us with the latest.

Lots to keep track of there, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Certainly is, Miles. Well, this evening, just about an hour-and-a-half ago, a U.S. F-18 fighter dropped two bombs on the southwestern part of Fallujah. So the military action continues, but also, the diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation in Fallujah continue as well.

Now this deal that's not a deal has been quite a difficult situation to really clarify here. But I think we're beginning to get a much better picture. Essentially, what has happened is a group of former officers from Saddam Hussein's army have come forward voluntarily to the Marines in Fallujah and offered their assistance to resolve the situation.

According to spokesmen -- or rather, sources -- Marine sources in Fallujah, they are offering as many -- between 600 to 1000 men to try to calm the situation there. Now -- and also, essentially, to be a security presence in and around Fallujah. But a senior military spokesman here in Baghdad says they're hopefully optimistic, but they have in the past been skeptical about those who have come forward with such offers.

This is only the latest in a line of groups, including community leaders and tribal sheikhs who have come over, come across to the Americans, and tried -- offered a solution, or an attempt to reach a solution. But the missing piece in all of this, Miles, is the fact that the insurgents themselves have not agreed A, to a cease-fire, and B, to some sort of permanent settlement of their uprising in Fallujah, which has gone on now for several weeks in fact. Now elsewhere in Iraq, south of Baghdad, in a town called Mahmoudiya, a car bomb killed eight Americans with the 1st Armored Division and wounded four others. In another suburb, an eastern suburb of Baghdad, a rocket propelled grenade hit an American convoy, killing another American soldier. And in this instance we saw, as we have seen elsewhere in Iraq, a crowd gathered around the damaged vehicle, started jumping on top of it, and some of them were chanting "long live Sadr."

And of course they're referring to the rebellious Shiite cleric, Muqtada Sadr, whose Mehdi Army, essentially a militia, is in control of the Shiite holy city of Najaf, and is also very powerful in parts of the Iraqi capital.

Now in another spot, in Ba'qubah, which is a predominantly Sunni town to the northeast of Baghdad, another U.S. soldier was killed. In addition to all this, in Basra, one South African civilian was killed in an attack -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad, thank you very much.

We knew weeks ago that April would go down as the deadliest month so far for U.S. forces in Iraq. We've now surpassed the number killed in the hostile fire during the war -- so-called combat phase a year ago. One hundred and twenty-six GIs have died under fire over the past 29 days alone. Hostilities killed 109 between the start of the U.S. invasion and President Bush's end of major combat speech six weeks later, on that aircraft carrier.

U.S. forces who had planned to be home by now are instead getting settled in to the Shiite holy city of Najaf and getting a decidedly unsettling welcome.

CNN's Jane Arraf is there.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Suspected members of the banned Mehdi Army, that militia loyal to radical Shia Muqtada al-Sadr, launched essentially simultaneous attack today on U.S. positions in and near Najaf. We were at one of them.

This was a U.S. checkpoint. And it was only the second day that U.S. forces have set up this checkpoint, to demonstrate their presence to the militia and to the people of Najaf and adjoining Kufa that they are here. Some it proceeded normally. They waved the traffic through. We talked to some people. Some were happy the soldiers were there, some of them were not. But all of a sudden, traffic stopped. And soldiers said that was an ominous sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time the streets clear, we get attacked.

ARRAF: Has it happened before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I was on top of an IP station it happened. And then I was in a convoy. We had to stop because they blocked the road with a... (EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take cover!

ARRAF: Within minute there were rocket propelled grenades flying, as well as the sound of mortars and small arms fire. One of the soldiers we were with was grazed in the leg by a bullet.

And at (UNINTELLIGIBLE) camp, the former Spanish camp taken over by U.S. troops actually in Najaf, one person was slightly injured by a mortar round. As that was happening, another attack at another U.S. checkpoint, just across the river, leading into Najaf and Kufa.

Now this was an area where the U.S. believed they had driven back the militia after killings dozens of its member several nights ago. But this was evidence apparently that there are still pockets, to say the least, as militia members, around the edges, as well, are still in control of the main city of Najaf and Kufa.

The U.S. does say it is acting with restraint. And soldiers that we saw certainly were showing restraint in not firing back, as much as they would have liked. They say they realize that this is a potentially explosive situation.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: A groundbreaking poll, done for CNN, "USA Today" and Gallup, shows Iraqi really didn't like Saddam Hussein, but believe they would have been stuck with him if the U.S. hadn't stepped in. Eight in 10 Iraqis surveyed face to face all around the country from late March to early April, had an unfavorable opinion of the former Iraqi dictator. Just 9 percent saw Saddam favorably. Another 9 percent were neutral. Only 4 percent thought Iraqis would have toppled Saddam on their own, however. Eighty-nine percent said he was there to stay.

And George W. Bush, most Iraqis didn't like him either, but he was still more popular than Saddam at the time of this poll, 55 percent viewed the U.S. president unfavorably, 24 percent liked him, 17 percent indifferent. We note all these results were gleaned before the latest flare-ups that we've been telling you about in Fallujah.

All right, reminder for you, in just about five minutes time, we expect to see the president of the United States in the Rose Garden of the White House, there to talk a little bit about his conversation this morning with the 9/11 Commission members. We'll bring it to you live.

Also ahead, what does a son think when he sees his dad go off to war?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look at a picture, you just know that the last time you saw him might be the last time you'll be able to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: You'll hear from kids caught in the crossfire of the war on terror.

And Americans are now doubly at risk for developing a debilitating condition. We have that in our health headlines.

And a World War II Memorial in Washington, D.C. it's about time, most of us would say. We'll head there for the unveiling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: We are told we're about two minutes away from the president of the United States entering the Rose Garden to talk about his conversation this morning with 9/11 commissioners. In an abbreviated form, I want to begin a conversation that will continue after the Rose Garden press conference that we expect to see shortly with Rick Shenkman, who joins us from Seattle. He is a presidential historian who has looked at this whole notion of presidential privilege over the years.

And Rick, I'm going to warn you in advance, I'm probably going to interrupt you as we go to the president. So bear with us on that and we'll just finish up afterward. First of all, this whole notion of executive privilege, is it in the Constitution?

RICK SHENKMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's not in the Constitution. George Washington, however, he exercised executive privilege on a couple of occasions during his presidency. And he established it. It's a tradition.

O'BRIEN: So whatever the father of our country does, is good enough for those would follow him?

SHENKMAN: Sure. The Constitution only includes a couple lines about what the presidency was going to be. George Washington put human form to it and he made it what it is. So what Washington said and did during his presidency created precedence and traditions which all future presidents -- subsequent presidents wound up following.

O'BRIEN: All right, and as a result of that, it takes a long time before we even get to the concept of a president being called by Congress to testify in any way, shape or form. What we are talking about here is World War II and specifically Pearl Harbor, which is interesting, when you talk about today's events, because it was an intelligence failure that was the allegation at the time. But at that time, FDR did not cooperate with Congress, did he?

SHENKMAN: Well, he cooperated with Congress, but he did not testify before Congress. They had a commission. They investigated. But FDR didn't appear. And one of the big differences between then and now is that he had a united country behind him. He was in a very powerful political position. President Bush is at the weakest point in his presidency. His approval ratings are at the lowest of his presidency...

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman, Rick Shenkman, at that the point, we're going to go to the president of the United States.

(INTERUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

O'BRIEN: The president of the United States in the Rose Garden of the White House, saying, if we had something to hide, we would not have met with them in the first place, and offering a brief recap in very general terms as to what happened during this extraordinary meeting as the 9/11 commissioners came to the Oval Office today to interview the president and the vice president.

We're going to take a short break, we'll be back with more. We'll check in with our presidential historian, Rick Shenkman, in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Truly was an historic moment at the White House this morning, in the Oval Office. The president of the United States, George W. Bush, his vice president, Dick Cheney, had what they are calling a conversation with 9/11 Commission members and one staffer from the independent 9/11 Commission. We got about a five-minute version of what went on inside, in the most broad brush of terms, from the president just a few moments ago. Here to give us a little analysis is Rick Shenkman, a presidential historian, joining us once again from Seattle.

I thought that statement from the president, Rick, where he said, "if we had something to hide, we would not have met with them in the first place," the president did -- he did fight long and hard not to have that meeting. So can he get away with saying that?

SHENKMAN: Well, I don't think he can get away with saying it. You know, the president can say whatever he wants. But the critics are going to come after him. And here's what they're going to say. I think they're going to argue that the president really is in a weak political position and that's why he's had to testify.

When presidents have been in strong powerful positions, they have not had to testify or have conversations with members of Congress who are investigating their administration.

In the 1950s, Joe McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities Committee wanted to have Dwight Eisenhower staffers come up to Capitol Hill and testify about communist subversion in the United States government. Eisenhower said no. And he was in a strong, powerful position so that he could get away with that. And the country supported him. In fact, he said if anybody in my administration goes up to Capitol Hill and testifies, the next day they'll come to work and they won't have a job.

O'BRIEN: And of course. what also helps in that matter, too, not only was Eisenhower, as popular as he is ever, being the hero that he was, the tide had turned against McCarthy a little bit as well, hadn't it?

SHENKMAN: It had. Circumstances favored the president so he could take that kind of position. Now jump ahead 20 years, Richard Nixon, he's at a low point of his polls, during Watergate, and the Congress wanted information, the courts wanted the tapes, and he had to submit, he had to give them what they wanted, even though he was asserting executive privilege he couldn't ultimately sustain that.

And that's the problem that President Bush is in now. He's in a -- he's low in the polls. He's not in a particularly strong position right now, even though we're going into the election, and he'd like to be, and so as a result, he's having to give into his critics.

O'BRIEN: So executive privilege is kind of a mushy term and really waxes and wanes depending on the situation of the moment, the politics of the moment.

SHENKMAN: Exactly, politics, polls, that's the critical element you have to remember here. President Bush could have arranged things in a better way so that he wouldn't have to testify. If, for instance, he had welcomed and embraced the 9/11 Commission, if he had turned over documents willingly and seemingly had cooperated all along the line, then I think he could have said, you know, I just don't think it's a good idea for the president to testify, and he probably could have gotten away with it. But not given the way that he has just kind of been pushed and backed into this situation today.

O'BRIEN: So really, put that way, you would suggest the White House has backed itself into a corner on this one?

SHENKMAN: Oh, I think that this is a mess of their own making. They really should have embraced the 9/11 Commission. Of course, what they didn't want was some commission out there that raising all kinds of questions, because any day the commission makes news is a day the president isn't in control of the national agenda. And every single day, they wake up in the White House saying, what can we do that puts us in charge of the national agenda?

O'BRIEN: Now as we have been thinking about this wall that exists between the executive and legislative branches in this country, we can't help but think about another democracy near and dear to us, the parliamentary system, that we see in Great Britain. Let's look for just a moment at what the likes of Tony Blair have to contend with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: I believe...

(CROSSTALK)

BLAIR: I believe that we made every proper planning for what happened after the toppling of Saddam. Many of those things that people...

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: All right, you get the idea. Tony Blair, in the well there, getting, you know, cat calls from the opposition. Spanning the sweep of history, can you think of a president who would do well in that environment?

SHENKMAN: Well, we've had a few presidents who probably would do OK. Lyndon Johnson probably would have done fine. He was a creature of the Congress. I think he would have done OK. Ronald Reagan would have done terribly. The guy needed a script. He was a great president, in many ways, but he needed a script. He wasn't very good just on his feet in that manner. And he also really preferred to be presidential. That was the key -- that aura that he communicated of being presidential. That would not have fared well if he had to get into the bear pit and grapple with his opponents the way we just saw Tony Blair.

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman, professor of history, studies the presidency, he's in Seattle, great pleasure having you with us, thank you for your insights.

I should tell you that there's an official statement from the White House, somewhat redundant, given the fact that we've heard from the president today. But the bottom line is it says: "The information they," referring to the president and vice president, "provided will be of great assistance to the commission as it completes its final report." That coming from the White House just a few moments ago.

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 29, 2004 - 12:58   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Closed door session, President Bush and Vice President Cheney on the record with the 9/11 Commission. President Bush expected to talk about it this hour from the Rose Garden. We'll bring it to you.
A deadly bombing near Baghdad, sporadic fighting with insurgents in Fallujah, is America winning the bigger battle for the hearts and minds of Iraqis?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was just drifting out there for four hours. So he was -- he had about another hour to live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Dive into danger, a swimmer left at sea, but the Boy Scouts were prepared, as always.

And would you pay $2 million to spend 30 seconds with your friends? You would, if they were these "Friends."

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off today. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

Up first this hour, three hours, 10 minutes, on 9/11: President Bush and Vice President Cheney have just wrapped up their long- awaited, unsworn, behind-closed-doors appearances before the independent panel investigating September 11. Moments from now, Mr. Bush is due to address the public from the White House Rose Garden. We'll bring it to you. In between let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash.

Dana, What do we know about the meeting?

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, we know it lasted about an hour -- even more than an hour longer than it was slated to last. It wrapped up, we are told, about 12:40 Eastern. That was about 3 1/2 hours long. It started promptly at 9:30 a.m. Eastern.

We do know, as you mentioned, that this was a, of course, behind- closed-doors meeting with the president and vice president being interviewed together by all 10 members of the 9/11 Commission. It was done without a formal transcription. No stenographer was there. It was simply the members of the commission taking notes, the chief White House counsel taking notes and two members of his staff also doing the same.

Now a couple of members of the commission did leave a little bit early, but most were there for the entire time. And we are, as you said, waiting to hear from the president himself in about 15 minutes, for him to give his side of the story, if you will, of what he said behind closed doors, about his actions leading up to 9/11, what the administration did and did not do, perhaps, and the questions that he was asked and what he believes he was able to impart to the commission.

We were also, Miles, expecting some sort of statement from the commission, although we do not expect a lot detail out of this meeting. Both members of the commission and members of the White House staff have told us that this is mostly or mainly classified information and this is something that they will keep under wraps, particularly at this time.

We are going to, of course, get a full report from the commission in July -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Dana, a word on the ground rules here. Why did the president and vice president insist that it be unsworn testimony?

BASH: Well, this is something that has -- there is precedent for this, to do simple interviews without sworn testimony. The former President Clinton was also simply interviewed by the commission, as was former Vice President Al Gore. They weren't interviewed under oath. So this is sort of keeping with what they are doing with the most senior officials that they are talking to.

The other part of the ground rules, which is interesting, and was controversial, obviously, is the fact that the president and vice president did appear before the commission together, simultaneously. Many Democrats question this, suggested that the vice president and president were trying to keep their story straight and not contradict one another.

The White House, for its part, has been defending this move this week. The White House counsel telling us simply that this is not a criminal investigation, it is a fact-finding mission, and they felt that it was a good way to give the panel their information by having the president and vice president together -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Dana, the White House offering any guidance on what the president will be saying at 1:15, a little more than 10 minutes from now, we should bring that to you live as he speaks from the Rose Garden?

BASH: Well, we expect him to give his readout of what he said to the panel, obviously in a declassified way. We do expect him to say similar things that we've heard from him in the past, about the lead up to 9/11, particularly the fact, from his point of view, that yes he had some information about some potential threat to the homeland.

We of course reported a lot about this daily briefing that he got in August, saying that bin Laden -- Osama bin Laden, was planning some attacks on the homeland. But we expect him to say, as he said in the past, that he had no specific information that was actionable, nothing that told him that planes were actually going to be used to fly into towers and into the Pentagon. But we do expect the president, essentially, to get out there and tell the public his side of the story, because this was done in private.

O'BRIEN: Be the first to tell, it always helps. Dana Bash, at the White House. Thank you very much.

Just to reiterate, that's coming up in about 10 minutes time, live from the Rose Garden, the president will talk. And we will bring it to you live, of course.

Let's turn our attention now to Iraq. No deal in Fallujah and not much of a break either in the pitched battles between U.S. Marines and their well-armed if outclassed opponents. Earlier today, Marines in that flashpoint city west of Baghdad told reporters they'd agreed to pull back in favor of an all-Iraqi Fallujah protective army.

But U.S. officials in Baghdad say that's premature at best, and we now know just how premature. Sunset brought another burst of ground combat and airstrikes. Around the Iraqi capital, 10 U.S. troops killed today in three attacks. CNN's Ben Wedeman joining us with the latest.

Lots to keep track of there, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Certainly is, Miles. Well, this evening, just about an hour-and-a-half ago, a U.S. F-18 fighter dropped two bombs on the southwestern part of Fallujah. So the military action continues, but also, the diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation in Fallujah continue as well.

Now this deal that's not a deal has been quite a difficult situation to really clarify here. But I think we're beginning to get a much better picture. Essentially, what has happened is a group of former officers from Saddam Hussein's army have come forward voluntarily to the Marines in Fallujah and offered their assistance to resolve the situation.

According to spokesmen -- or rather, sources -- Marine sources in Fallujah, they are offering as many -- between 600 to 1000 men to try to calm the situation there. Now -- and also, essentially, to be a security presence in and around Fallujah. But a senior military spokesman here in Baghdad says they're hopefully optimistic, but they have in the past been skeptical about those who have come forward with such offers.

This is only the latest in a line of groups, including community leaders and tribal sheikhs who have come over, come across to the Americans, and tried -- offered a solution, or an attempt to reach a solution. But the missing piece in all of this, Miles, is the fact that the insurgents themselves have not agreed A, to a cease-fire, and B, to some sort of permanent settlement of their uprising in Fallujah, which has gone on now for several weeks in fact. Now elsewhere in Iraq, south of Baghdad, in a town called Mahmoudiya, a car bomb killed eight Americans with the 1st Armored Division and wounded four others. In another suburb, an eastern suburb of Baghdad, a rocket propelled grenade hit an American convoy, killing another American soldier. And in this instance we saw, as we have seen elsewhere in Iraq, a crowd gathered around the damaged vehicle, started jumping on top of it, and some of them were chanting "long live Sadr."

And of course they're referring to the rebellious Shiite cleric, Muqtada Sadr, whose Mehdi Army, essentially a militia, is in control of the Shiite holy city of Najaf, and is also very powerful in parts of the Iraqi capital.

Now in another spot, in Ba'qubah, which is a predominantly Sunni town to the northeast of Baghdad, another U.S. soldier was killed. In addition to all this, in Basra, one South African civilian was killed in an attack -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad, thank you very much.

We knew weeks ago that April would go down as the deadliest month so far for U.S. forces in Iraq. We've now surpassed the number killed in the hostile fire during the war -- so-called combat phase a year ago. One hundred and twenty-six GIs have died under fire over the past 29 days alone. Hostilities killed 109 between the start of the U.S. invasion and President Bush's end of major combat speech six weeks later, on that aircraft carrier.

U.S. forces who had planned to be home by now are instead getting settled in to the Shiite holy city of Najaf and getting a decidedly unsettling welcome.

CNN's Jane Arraf is there.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Suspected members of the banned Mehdi Army, that militia loyal to radical Shia Muqtada al-Sadr, launched essentially simultaneous attack today on U.S. positions in and near Najaf. We were at one of them.

This was a U.S. checkpoint. And it was only the second day that U.S. forces have set up this checkpoint, to demonstrate their presence to the militia and to the people of Najaf and adjoining Kufa that they are here. Some it proceeded normally. They waved the traffic through. We talked to some people. Some were happy the soldiers were there, some of them were not. But all of a sudden, traffic stopped. And soldiers said that was an ominous sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time the streets clear, we get attacked.

ARRAF: Has it happened before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I was on top of an IP station it happened. And then I was in a convoy. We had to stop because they blocked the road with a... (EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take cover!

ARRAF: Within minute there were rocket propelled grenades flying, as well as the sound of mortars and small arms fire. One of the soldiers we were with was grazed in the leg by a bullet.

And at (UNINTELLIGIBLE) camp, the former Spanish camp taken over by U.S. troops actually in Najaf, one person was slightly injured by a mortar round. As that was happening, another attack at another U.S. checkpoint, just across the river, leading into Najaf and Kufa.

Now this was an area where the U.S. believed they had driven back the militia after killings dozens of its member several nights ago. But this was evidence apparently that there are still pockets, to say the least, as militia members, around the edges, as well, are still in control of the main city of Najaf and Kufa.

The U.S. does say it is acting with restraint. And soldiers that we saw certainly were showing restraint in not firing back, as much as they would have liked. They say they realize that this is a potentially explosive situation.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.

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O'BRIEN: A groundbreaking poll, done for CNN, "USA Today" and Gallup, shows Iraqi really didn't like Saddam Hussein, but believe they would have been stuck with him if the U.S. hadn't stepped in. Eight in 10 Iraqis surveyed face to face all around the country from late March to early April, had an unfavorable opinion of the former Iraqi dictator. Just 9 percent saw Saddam favorably. Another 9 percent were neutral. Only 4 percent thought Iraqis would have toppled Saddam on their own, however. Eighty-nine percent said he was there to stay.

And George W. Bush, most Iraqis didn't like him either, but he was still more popular than Saddam at the time of this poll, 55 percent viewed the U.S. president unfavorably, 24 percent liked him, 17 percent indifferent. We note all these results were gleaned before the latest flare-ups that we've been telling you about in Fallujah.

All right, reminder for you, in just about five minutes time, we expect to see the president of the United States in the Rose Garden of the White House, there to talk a little bit about his conversation this morning with the 9/11 Commission members. We'll bring it to you live.

Also ahead, what does a son think when he sees his dad go off to war?

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look at a picture, you just know that the last time you saw him might be the last time you'll be able to.

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O'BRIEN: You'll hear from kids caught in the crossfire of the war on terror.

And Americans are now doubly at risk for developing a debilitating condition. We have that in our health headlines.

And a World War II Memorial in Washington, D.C. it's about time, most of us would say. We'll head there for the unveiling.

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O'BRIEN: We are told we're about two minutes away from the president of the United States entering the Rose Garden to talk about his conversation this morning with 9/11 commissioners. In an abbreviated form, I want to begin a conversation that will continue after the Rose Garden press conference that we expect to see shortly with Rick Shenkman, who joins us from Seattle. He is a presidential historian who has looked at this whole notion of presidential privilege over the years.

And Rick, I'm going to warn you in advance, I'm probably going to interrupt you as we go to the president. So bear with us on that and we'll just finish up afterward. First of all, this whole notion of executive privilege, is it in the Constitution?

RICK SHENKMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's not in the Constitution. George Washington, however, he exercised executive privilege on a couple of occasions during his presidency. And he established it. It's a tradition.

O'BRIEN: So whatever the father of our country does, is good enough for those would follow him?

SHENKMAN: Sure. The Constitution only includes a couple lines about what the presidency was going to be. George Washington put human form to it and he made it what it is. So what Washington said and did during his presidency created precedence and traditions which all future presidents -- subsequent presidents wound up following.

O'BRIEN: All right, and as a result of that, it takes a long time before we even get to the concept of a president being called by Congress to testify in any way, shape or form. What we are talking about here is World War II and specifically Pearl Harbor, which is interesting, when you talk about today's events, because it was an intelligence failure that was the allegation at the time. But at that time, FDR did not cooperate with Congress, did he?

SHENKMAN: Well, he cooperated with Congress, but he did not testify before Congress. They had a commission. They investigated. But FDR didn't appear. And one of the big differences between then and now is that he had a united country behind him. He was in a very powerful political position. President Bush is at the weakest point in his presidency. His approval ratings are at the lowest of his presidency...

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman, Rick Shenkman, at that the point, we're going to go to the president of the United States.

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O'BRIEN: The president of the United States in the Rose Garden of the White House, saying, if we had something to hide, we would not have met with them in the first place, and offering a brief recap in very general terms as to what happened during this extraordinary meeting as the 9/11 commissioners came to the Oval Office today to interview the president and the vice president.

We're going to take a short break, we'll be back with more. We'll check in with our presidential historian, Rick Shenkman, in just a moment. Stay with us.

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O'BRIEN: Truly was an historic moment at the White House this morning, in the Oval Office. The president of the United States, George W. Bush, his vice president, Dick Cheney, had what they are calling a conversation with 9/11 Commission members and one staffer from the independent 9/11 Commission. We got about a five-minute version of what went on inside, in the most broad brush of terms, from the president just a few moments ago. Here to give us a little analysis is Rick Shenkman, a presidential historian, joining us once again from Seattle.

I thought that statement from the president, Rick, where he said, "if we had something to hide, we would not have met with them in the first place," the president did -- he did fight long and hard not to have that meeting. So can he get away with saying that?

SHENKMAN: Well, I don't think he can get away with saying it. You know, the president can say whatever he wants. But the critics are going to come after him. And here's what they're going to say. I think they're going to argue that the president really is in a weak political position and that's why he's had to testify.

When presidents have been in strong powerful positions, they have not had to testify or have conversations with members of Congress who are investigating their administration.

In the 1950s, Joe McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities Committee wanted to have Dwight Eisenhower staffers come up to Capitol Hill and testify about communist subversion in the United States government. Eisenhower said no. And he was in a strong, powerful position so that he could get away with that. And the country supported him. In fact, he said if anybody in my administration goes up to Capitol Hill and testifies, the next day they'll come to work and they won't have a job.

O'BRIEN: And of course. what also helps in that matter, too, not only was Eisenhower, as popular as he is ever, being the hero that he was, the tide had turned against McCarthy a little bit as well, hadn't it?

SHENKMAN: It had. Circumstances favored the president so he could take that kind of position. Now jump ahead 20 years, Richard Nixon, he's at a low point of his polls, during Watergate, and the Congress wanted information, the courts wanted the tapes, and he had to submit, he had to give them what they wanted, even though he was asserting executive privilege he couldn't ultimately sustain that.

And that's the problem that President Bush is in now. He's in a -- he's low in the polls. He's not in a particularly strong position right now, even though we're going into the election, and he'd like to be, and so as a result, he's having to give into his critics.

O'BRIEN: So executive privilege is kind of a mushy term and really waxes and wanes depending on the situation of the moment, the politics of the moment.

SHENKMAN: Exactly, politics, polls, that's the critical element you have to remember here. President Bush could have arranged things in a better way so that he wouldn't have to testify. If, for instance, he had welcomed and embraced the 9/11 Commission, if he had turned over documents willingly and seemingly had cooperated all along the line, then I think he could have said, you know, I just don't think it's a good idea for the president to testify, and he probably could have gotten away with it. But not given the way that he has just kind of been pushed and backed into this situation today.

O'BRIEN: So really, put that way, you would suggest the White House has backed itself into a corner on this one?

SHENKMAN: Oh, I think that this is a mess of their own making. They really should have embraced the 9/11 Commission. Of course, what they didn't want was some commission out there that raising all kinds of questions, because any day the commission makes news is a day the president isn't in control of the national agenda. And every single day, they wake up in the White House saying, what can we do that puts us in charge of the national agenda?

O'BRIEN: Now as we have been thinking about this wall that exists between the executive and legislative branches in this country, we can't help but think about another democracy near and dear to us, the parliamentary system, that we see in Great Britain. Let's look for just a moment at what the likes of Tony Blair have to contend with.

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TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: I believe...

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BLAIR: I believe that we made every proper planning for what happened after the toppling of Saddam. Many of those things that people...

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: All right, you get the idea. Tony Blair, in the well there, getting, you know, cat calls from the opposition. Spanning the sweep of history, can you think of a president who would do well in that environment?

SHENKMAN: Well, we've had a few presidents who probably would do OK. Lyndon Johnson probably would have done fine. He was a creature of the Congress. I think he would have done OK. Ronald Reagan would have done terribly. The guy needed a script. He was a great president, in many ways, but he needed a script. He wasn't very good just on his feet in that manner. And he also really preferred to be presidential. That was the key -- that aura that he communicated of being presidential. That would not have fared well if he had to get into the bear pit and grapple with his opponents the way we just saw Tony Blair.

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman, professor of history, studies the presidency, he's in Seattle, great pleasure having you with us, thank you for your insights.

I should tell you that there's an official statement from the White House, somewhat redundant, given the fact that we've heard from the president today. But the bottom line is it says: "The information they," referring to the president and vice president, "provided will be of great assistance to the commission as it completes its final report." That coming from the White House just a few moments ago.

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