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Congress Wants Rumsfeld to Testify about Abu Ghraib; Presidential Election '04 Projected to be Most Expensive Ever

Aired May 05, 2004 - 13:58   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's also important for the people of Iraq to know that in a democracy, everything is not perfect, that mistakes are made. But in a democracy, as well, those mistakes will be investigated and people will be brought to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: A message to clean up a mess. President Bush talks with Arabic language networks about alleged abuses in an Iraqi prison. Inside interrogations, just how far can American investigators go with a prisoner? We'll talk with a man who does some pretty tough questioning.

PHILLIPS: And is your spouse making you sick? Take the marriage stress test this hour.

And here's a guy the whole world looks up to, bet you can guess why his name is getting into the records books.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

A snapshot? Not the big picture. That's the view from President Bush concerning those graphic and repugnant scenes of abuse from Baghdad's infamous Abu Ghraib prison. Mr. Bush sought to broaden, maybe soften, the perspectives of Arab TV watchers today via one-on- one interviews with the Arab network Al-Arabiya and the U.S.-funded and controlled Arab language broadcaster Alhurra.

He promised justice for Americans who mistreat Iraqis, while noting that Saddam Hussein mistreated Iraqis with impunity. Here's an excerpt of that interview with Al-Arabiya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: First, I want to tell the people of the Middle East that the practices that took place in that prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America. They represent the actions of a few people. Secondly, it's important for people to understand that in a democracy that there will be a full investigation. In other words, we want to know the truth.

In our country, when there's an allegation of abuse -- more than an allegation in this case, actual abuse, we saw the pictures -- there will be a full investigation and justice will be delivered. We have a presumption of innocent until you're guilty in our system, but the system will be transparent, it will be open and people will see the results. This is a serious matter. It's a matter that reflects badly on my country. Our citizens in America are appalled by what they saw, just like people in the Middle East are appalled. We share the same deep concerns. And we will find the truth, we will fully investigate. The world will see the investigation and justice will be served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, if you're wondering where Iraqis get their news and information, a groundbreaking poll done for CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup found out. We found the Pentagon-funded TV outlet Al Iraqiya is viewed by three Iraqis in four. Though only two in 10 consider it objective. Al-Arabiya and Al Jazeera run neck and neck for a distant second place, followed by a Kurdish channel and Abu Dhabi satellite. Alhurra draws only 6 percent of Iraqis, though that's double the Iraqi viewership of CNN.

Back in Washington, Capitol Hill is clamoring to get Donald Rumsfeld under oath and on the record in the prisoner abuse debacle. Here is CNN's Elaine Quijano at the Pentagon -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra. Well, aides to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld say right now at this moment the defense secretary is not inclined to change his plans for tomorrow in order to push up that scheduled appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee next week.

Now that could certainly change. There is considerable pressure from lawmakers for the secretary to do just that. The lawmakers would like to see this happen sooner rather than later.

But questions of accountability certainly continue to swirl regarding the alleged prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Just this morning Joe Biden, in a television interview, said he thought that Secretary Rumsfeld should resign. But the Bush administration is standing firmly behind the defense secretary.

A White House spokesman saying that the president does not think Rumsfeld should resign. And when asked if the president had full confidence in Rumsfeld, the spokesman said yes.

Now other administration officials say the defense secretary is taking steps to get to the bottom of what happened at the Abu Ghraib Prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: And so Secretary Rumsfeld is hard at work seeing what other investigatory efforts should be put into this matter. He is in touch with members of Congress. I'm sure I'll have a chance to discuss it when I'm up on the Hill this afternoon as well. We want to get all the information out so that the American people understand what's happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now also interesting to note, the lack of a direct apology by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Yesterday during the Pentagon briefing, he was asked that and the defense secretary talked around that point.

And then just this morning during a television interview, when asked whether or not he would apologize, the defense secretary said: "Anyone, any American who sees the photographs that we've seen has to feel apologetic to the Iraqi people who were abused." He goes on to say that that is something that's unacceptable and certainly un- American.

Now contrast that statement, those words with what the top military -- U.S. military spokesman in Iraq said, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt in Baghdad earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: My Army has been embarrassed by this. My Army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my Army I apologize for what those soldiers did to your citizens. It was reprehensible and it was unacceptable. And it is more than just words, that we have to take those words into action and ensure that never happens again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: So an impassioned statement there from Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, coming out directly, publicly apologizing to the Iraqi people. So far no such apology from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Elaine Quijano, thank you.

Secretary of State Colin Powell admits the Iraqi prison scandal feeds anti-American feelings in the Arab world, but he tells CNN's Larry King that he believes the climate will improve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE")

POWELL: We are going through a rough spot right now. People are looking at our actions in Iraq and in some cases in the Arab world, they don't understand them. I think they will begin to understand them more when they transfer sovereignty back to an interim government at the end of next month, when they see Iraqi faces again in charge and Iraqis responsible for their own destiny.

Let's not let that take away from the magnificent contributions being made by most of our soldiers, the vast majority of our soldiers, who are building schools, repairing hospitals, who are defending themselves, going after the bad guys, but also putting in sewer systems for the people of Iraq.

And so while we deplore this and while we are all stunned and shocked that our young people could do this, let's not forget what most of our young people are doing in service to the nation and in service to the Iraqi people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: When asked if he's willing to stay on if President Bush wins a second term, Powell simply said he serves at the pleasure of the president.

While the prison abuse scandal is getting most of the headlines, coalition forces in southern Iraq are focusing attention on a renegade cleric. At least 10 Iraqis and a U.S. soldier have been killed in clashes with Muqtada al-Sadr's militia. The fighting is concentrated in the Shiite holy cities of Najaf and Karbala, as well as Diwaniyah.

CNN's Jane Arraf talked to a U.S. commander in Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: General Hertling, first of all, can you tell us about these operations that you've carried out, overnight operations?

BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: Yes. We conducted several operations last night, very precise operations in Karbala and Diwaniyah, and continued patrols in Najaf to pressure Sadr, Muqtada's militia into giving up their arms and stopping with these militia activities.

ARRAF: By all accounts, these are not a lot of militia members, they don't have sophisticated weapons, and yet they keep attacking U.S. forces. Do you have any indication that they'll stop even with your recent operation?

HERTLING: I believe so. They're not sophisticated weapons, but they certainly are deadly weapons: RPGs, the mortars that they continue to shoot arbitrarily. Most of them are random shots. They're not very good in terms of their ability to aim and fire these things. But they're still dangerous to not only coalition forces but also to the local populations.

Do we think they'll stop? Yes, we think they will, because several of them have been killed. We've attempted to persuade them to lay down their arms. Unfortunately many of them haven't. So we're continuing to either kill or capture as we did last night.

ARRAF: This is a very complicated and potentially dangerous situation in Najaf. I mean, you can't go into the holy site. There are places that you really do have to avoid. Given that, how do you put enough pressure on the militia?

HERTLING: Well, I think it's a combination of what we're doing in the outlying areas, using kinetic force operations, using our forces to go in to places like Karbala where the militia is, where Sadr's lieutenants are. And while we're going after those forces, specifically an offensive operation, we're continuing to shrink the surrounding of Muqtada's neighborhood to let him know that he can no longer conduct illegal checkpoints where he is, in fact, robbing people to gain money for this cause.

We have indicators of that, where he's doing things in this city that the people don't want. So while we're conducting offensive operations in the outlying areas, we're continuing to pressure him in his home town.

ARRAF: And what about a political solution, is there any progress being made on that, is there anything that might result in a Fallujah-type solution to this?

HERTLING: I don't think it can be compared at all to Fallujah. We're doing some coordination with local tribal leaders, with political parties and with local officials to try and increase the Iraqi security forces in the holy city of Najaf so we can give it back to the good Shia who want the city to be the holy site here in Iraq, the place where the pilgrimages take place.

So I think a combination of what we're doing with our operations and at the same time conducting coordination with the leaders to get their own security while we support them are critical; as well as building up some of the infrastructure that Sadr has taken away.

ARRAF: Are you in a race against time here, less than 60 days to hand over, hardly any police or ICDC, Iraqi defense forces?

HERTLING: I certainly think we're in a -- it certainly is a situation where time is important. But the military is going to be here for a very long time. We're going to continue to support the Iraqi security forces. So we will be here.

The politicians will transfer authority. And most of the politicians from the Iraqi side want the same thing in terms of security. So I think, yes, it's important to do this very quickly and to stand up the security forces. But I think the timing's about right. We're doing all right.

ARRAF: Thank you so much.

HERTLING: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: A group of moderate Shiite leaders is urging Sadr to back off and to preserve the sanctity of their holy cities.

The civilian truck driver who escaped Iraqi captivity expects to go home to Mississippi with his wife by this weekend. Thomas Hamill is at Landstuhl Medical Center in Germany nursing an arm wound suffered during his three-week hostage ordeal. He and his wife were reunited there this morning. Straight ahead, a television news helicopter definitely makes some headlines after you see this. Man, amazing pictures. What's even more amazing though, everyone lived to tell about it.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands in Southern California where a change in the weather has had a dramatic effect on six wildfires. We'll have the very latest from the fire lines coming up.

PHILLIPS: And does Oprah need to clean up her act? Find out why the FCC is getting an earful about the queen of daytime talk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Corralling the wildfires out West, the fires are burning with an intensity that firefighters don't usually see until late in the season. Our Ted Rowlands is in Temecula, California with the latest on several blazes -- Ted.

ROWLANDS: Well, although the wind has picked up in the last few hours, Mother Nature has really chipped in in the firefighting efforts today and overnight, especially. Three of the six wildfires in Southern California have now been completely contained. There are still three that are being worked on, two of them here in Riverside County, another up in Santa Barbara County in the Los Padres National Forest.

Here in Riverside County, the Cerritos fire is about 30 percent contained, 11,000 acres have burned. The Temecula fire is also 30 percent contained, but 14 homes were lost and 5000 acres were lost from this fire. The big change in the weather is what firefighters say gave them the upper hand and has made all of the difference today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PETERS, CALIFORNIA DEPT. OF FORESTRY: The night before, it was totally defensive. Firefighters were trying to save houses. It was kind of run and gun through the whole night because it was warm and hot. Last night, a lot cooler temperatures, higher humidities. The fire kind of burned in place which allowed us to cut a ring, continue to contain the fire. Good work done by our bulldozers and our hand crews firing operation, we doubled our containment overnight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROWLANDS: And that overnight work is paying off today as they are in a better position, are the firefighters, to handle any wind gusts or any fire flare-ups. It is expected that all of the fires will be contained by the end of the week if the weather patterns hold. This is, as you mentioned, a very early start to the California wildfire season. And there is real concern that this could be the start of a very long year -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ted Rowlands in Temecula, California, thank you.

Other news across America begins with a phoenix rising from the ashes, so to speak. Groundbreaking for the Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site is scheduled for Fourth of July. The 1776-foot building is expected to be completed in five years.

Talk about dramatic dangling, a motorist apparently went backwards instead of forward. These pictures are coming in right now from here in Atlanta. No one's in the car. We'll bring you more information as it becomes available.

Fed up with road rudeness, laws are proposed in more than a dozen states now to penalize motorists for inconsiderate moves such as tailgating, passing on the shoulder, cutting off other drivers, I wonder if flipping the bird fits in there. Experts say while nearly everyone is aggravated by road rudeness, nearly everyone is guilty of it, too.

Spinning out of control, a news helicopter crashed on a rooftop in New York. The reporter and two pilots aboard, believe it or not, all survived this. They were not seriously injured. That chopper had been covering a shooting in Brooklyn before it crashed.

John Kerry's on the campaign trail today in Los Angeles, stumping for votes. He arrived in Southern California yesterday. Meanwhile, President Bush will make remarks on Cinco de Mayo later today at the White House. Both complains are working hard to court Latino voters who could turn out to be a very important factor come November.

The White House is turning out to be some of the most expensive real estate in the world. The Bush/Kerry race is expected to become the first ever billion dollar campaign.

National correspondent Kelly Wallace reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are members of opposing teams, but together they will pummel the current record, making the 2004 presidential election the costliest one ever.

Things weren't always this way. Think back to simpler times: 1960, the Kennedy/Nixon race, when experts estimate as much as $30 million was spent. Adjusted for inflation, that amounts to about $180 million in 2002 dollars, less than a fifth of the $1 billion expected to be spent this year.

Presidential campaigns have gotten steadily more expensive, from the $160 million spent during the Reagan/Carter race in 1980 to $500 billion in Bush v. Gore.

LARRY NOBLE, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: In many respects what we're looking at is a money arms race. One party will break a record, and the other party feels it has to match them.

WALLACE: It was the Watergate scandal of the 1970s, during the Nixon administration, and allegations of contributions for access, that led to public financing for presidential candidates. Then came the emergence of unlimited contributions from individuals, labor unions and corporations, a problem that campaign finance watchdogs say spiraled out of control during the 1996 Clinton/Gore campaign.

CHELLIE PINGREE, PRESIDENT, COMMON CAUSE: That has really been the growing concern on the part of the public, is when big donors can give unlimited amounts of money or bundle big groups of money, then what is the resulting influence, and how do you make sure that you separate that opportunity in politics?

WALLACE: Congress banned unlimited contributions to candidates two years ago. So what accounts for the $1 billion record expected this year? Experts say higher individual contribution limits, more small donors, and for the first time two candidates opting out of the public financing system.

(on camera): And that means both candidates can spend as much as they want between now and the summer conventions. Most of their money going to ads on television. Expert say television advertising, the single thing making presidential campaigns more expensive today than they were decades ago.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Documentary drama, filmmaker Michael Moore gets icky with Mickey. Find out why he says Disney is playing politics.

And marriage, is it a loving bond or a life sentence? Take the marriage stress test later on LIVE FROM...

And sheep, the barnyard animal of choice for LIVE FROM..., they're going the distance. Don't miss the big finish.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Filmmaker Michael Moore has some words for the mouse house. Moore says The Walt Disney Company blocked its Miramax division from distributing his new film "Fahrenheit 911." The movie is critical of President Bush, says Moore.

"The whole story behind this and other attempts to kill our movie will be told in more detail as the days and weeks go on. For nearly a year, this struggle has been a lesson in just how difficult it is in this country to create a piece of art that might upset those in charge. Well, OK, sorry, it will upset them big time. Did I mention it's a comedy?"

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Welcome back to the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is LIVE FROM..., I'm Kyra Phillips. Here is what's all new this half hour.

Accusations of abuse raise questions about just how far American interrogators can go. We'll take you in depth with our experts straight ahead.

And making the love connection between marriage and your health, is your spouse making you sick?

But first, here are the top stories we're following for you.

Israeli military sources say their troops shot and killed a Palestinian militant leader today in a village north of Nablus in the West Bank. The sources report that the troops fired on the armed man and afterwards learned that he was a senior Hamas member wanted by Israel.

Israeli security sources report that their jets struck two Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon today. The sources say the Israelis hit the Hezbollah target after shells were fired at Israelis in western Galilee.

U.S. forces massed outside Najaf say that they're working with moderate Iraqi leaders to take control of the fractured city. They're trying to organize a local security force. Rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army have a strong presence in Najaf.

The shocking pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison a vivid example of how not to interrogate prisoners of war. International law prohibits force, mental torture, threats, insults or inhumane treatment. So what does leave?

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 5, 2004 - 13:58   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's also important for the people of Iraq to know that in a democracy, everything is not perfect, that mistakes are made. But in a democracy, as well, those mistakes will be investigated and people will be brought to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: A message to clean up a mess. President Bush talks with Arabic language networks about alleged abuses in an Iraqi prison. Inside interrogations, just how far can American investigators go with a prisoner? We'll talk with a man who does some pretty tough questioning.

PHILLIPS: And is your spouse making you sick? Take the marriage stress test this hour.

And here's a guy the whole world looks up to, bet you can guess why his name is getting into the records books.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.

A snapshot? Not the big picture. That's the view from President Bush concerning those graphic and repugnant scenes of abuse from Baghdad's infamous Abu Ghraib prison. Mr. Bush sought to broaden, maybe soften, the perspectives of Arab TV watchers today via one-on- one interviews with the Arab network Al-Arabiya and the U.S.-funded and controlled Arab language broadcaster Alhurra.

He promised justice for Americans who mistreat Iraqis, while noting that Saddam Hussein mistreated Iraqis with impunity. Here's an excerpt of that interview with Al-Arabiya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: First, I want to tell the people of the Middle East that the practices that took place in that prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America. They represent the actions of a few people. Secondly, it's important for people to understand that in a democracy that there will be a full investigation. In other words, we want to know the truth.

In our country, when there's an allegation of abuse -- more than an allegation in this case, actual abuse, we saw the pictures -- there will be a full investigation and justice will be delivered. We have a presumption of innocent until you're guilty in our system, but the system will be transparent, it will be open and people will see the results. This is a serious matter. It's a matter that reflects badly on my country. Our citizens in America are appalled by what they saw, just like people in the Middle East are appalled. We share the same deep concerns. And we will find the truth, we will fully investigate. The world will see the investigation and justice will be served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, if you're wondering where Iraqis get their news and information, a groundbreaking poll done for CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup found out. We found the Pentagon-funded TV outlet Al Iraqiya is viewed by three Iraqis in four. Though only two in 10 consider it objective. Al-Arabiya and Al Jazeera run neck and neck for a distant second place, followed by a Kurdish channel and Abu Dhabi satellite. Alhurra draws only 6 percent of Iraqis, though that's double the Iraqi viewership of CNN.

Back in Washington, Capitol Hill is clamoring to get Donald Rumsfeld under oath and on the record in the prisoner abuse debacle. Here is CNN's Elaine Quijano at the Pentagon -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra. Well, aides to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld say right now at this moment the defense secretary is not inclined to change his plans for tomorrow in order to push up that scheduled appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee next week.

Now that could certainly change. There is considerable pressure from lawmakers for the secretary to do just that. The lawmakers would like to see this happen sooner rather than later.

But questions of accountability certainly continue to swirl regarding the alleged prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Just this morning Joe Biden, in a television interview, said he thought that Secretary Rumsfeld should resign. But the Bush administration is standing firmly behind the defense secretary.

A White House spokesman saying that the president does not think Rumsfeld should resign. And when asked if the president had full confidence in Rumsfeld, the spokesman said yes.

Now other administration officials say the defense secretary is taking steps to get to the bottom of what happened at the Abu Ghraib Prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: And so Secretary Rumsfeld is hard at work seeing what other investigatory efforts should be put into this matter. He is in touch with members of Congress. I'm sure I'll have a chance to discuss it when I'm up on the Hill this afternoon as well. We want to get all the information out so that the American people understand what's happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now also interesting to note, the lack of a direct apology by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Yesterday during the Pentagon briefing, he was asked that and the defense secretary talked around that point.

And then just this morning during a television interview, when asked whether or not he would apologize, the defense secretary said: "Anyone, any American who sees the photographs that we've seen has to feel apologetic to the Iraqi people who were abused." He goes on to say that that is something that's unacceptable and certainly un- American.

Now contrast that statement, those words with what the top military -- U.S. military spokesman in Iraq said, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt in Baghdad earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: My Army has been embarrassed by this. My Army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my Army I apologize for what those soldiers did to your citizens. It was reprehensible and it was unacceptable. And it is more than just words, that we have to take those words into action and ensure that never happens again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: So an impassioned statement there from Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, coming out directly, publicly apologizing to the Iraqi people. So far no such apology from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Elaine Quijano, thank you.

Secretary of State Colin Powell admits the Iraqi prison scandal feeds anti-American feelings in the Arab world, but he tells CNN's Larry King that he believes the climate will improve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE")

POWELL: We are going through a rough spot right now. People are looking at our actions in Iraq and in some cases in the Arab world, they don't understand them. I think they will begin to understand them more when they transfer sovereignty back to an interim government at the end of next month, when they see Iraqi faces again in charge and Iraqis responsible for their own destiny.

Let's not let that take away from the magnificent contributions being made by most of our soldiers, the vast majority of our soldiers, who are building schools, repairing hospitals, who are defending themselves, going after the bad guys, but also putting in sewer systems for the people of Iraq.

And so while we deplore this and while we are all stunned and shocked that our young people could do this, let's not forget what most of our young people are doing in service to the nation and in service to the Iraqi people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: When asked if he's willing to stay on if President Bush wins a second term, Powell simply said he serves at the pleasure of the president.

While the prison abuse scandal is getting most of the headlines, coalition forces in southern Iraq are focusing attention on a renegade cleric. At least 10 Iraqis and a U.S. soldier have been killed in clashes with Muqtada al-Sadr's militia. The fighting is concentrated in the Shiite holy cities of Najaf and Karbala, as well as Diwaniyah.

CNN's Jane Arraf talked to a U.S. commander in Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: General Hertling, first of all, can you tell us about these operations that you've carried out, overnight operations?

BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: Yes. We conducted several operations last night, very precise operations in Karbala and Diwaniyah, and continued patrols in Najaf to pressure Sadr, Muqtada's militia into giving up their arms and stopping with these militia activities.

ARRAF: By all accounts, these are not a lot of militia members, they don't have sophisticated weapons, and yet they keep attacking U.S. forces. Do you have any indication that they'll stop even with your recent operation?

HERTLING: I believe so. They're not sophisticated weapons, but they certainly are deadly weapons: RPGs, the mortars that they continue to shoot arbitrarily. Most of them are random shots. They're not very good in terms of their ability to aim and fire these things. But they're still dangerous to not only coalition forces but also to the local populations.

Do we think they'll stop? Yes, we think they will, because several of them have been killed. We've attempted to persuade them to lay down their arms. Unfortunately many of them haven't. So we're continuing to either kill or capture as we did last night.

ARRAF: This is a very complicated and potentially dangerous situation in Najaf. I mean, you can't go into the holy site. There are places that you really do have to avoid. Given that, how do you put enough pressure on the militia?

HERTLING: Well, I think it's a combination of what we're doing in the outlying areas, using kinetic force operations, using our forces to go in to places like Karbala where the militia is, where Sadr's lieutenants are. And while we're going after those forces, specifically an offensive operation, we're continuing to shrink the surrounding of Muqtada's neighborhood to let him know that he can no longer conduct illegal checkpoints where he is, in fact, robbing people to gain money for this cause.

We have indicators of that, where he's doing things in this city that the people don't want. So while we're conducting offensive operations in the outlying areas, we're continuing to pressure him in his home town.

ARRAF: And what about a political solution, is there any progress being made on that, is there anything that might result in a Fallujah-type solution to this?

HERTLING: I don't think it can be compared at all to Fallujah. We're doing some coordination with local tribal leaders, with political parties and with local officials to try and increase the Iraqi security forces in the holy city of Najaf so we can give it back to the good Shia who want the city to be the holy site here in Iraq, the place where the pilgrimages take place.

So I think a combination of what we're doing with our operations and at the same time conducting coordination with the leaders to get their own security while we support them are critical; as well as building up some of the infrastructure that Sadr has taken away.

ARRAF: Are you in a race against time here, less than 60 days to hand over, hardly any police or ICDC, Iraqi defense forces?

HERTLING: I certainly think we're in a -- it certainly is a situation where time is important. But the military is going to be here for a very long time. We're going to continue to support the Iraqi security forces. So we will be here.

The politicians will transfer authority. And most of the politicians from the Iraqi side want the same thing in terms of security. So I think, yes, it's important to do this very quickly and to stand up the security forces. But I think the timing's about right. We're doing all right.

ARRAF: Thank you so much.

HERTLING: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: A group of moderate Shiite leaders is urging Sadr to back off and to preserve the sanctity of their holy cities.

The civilian truck driver who escaped Iraqi captivity expects to go home to Mississippi with his wife by this weekend. Thomas Hamill is at Landstuhl Medical Center in Germany nursing an arm wound suffered during his three-week hostage ordeal. He and his wife were reunited there this morning. Straight ahead, a television news helicopter definitely makes some headlines after you see this. Man, amazing pictures. What's even more amazing though, everyone lived to tell about it.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands in Southern California where a change in the weather has had a dramatic effect on six wildfires. We'll have the very latest from the fire lines coming up.

PHILLIPS: And does Oprah need to clean up her act? Find out why the FCC is getting an earful about the queen of daytime talk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Corralling the wildfires out West, the fires are burning with an intensity that firefighters don't usually see until late in the season. Our Ted Rowlands is in Temecula, California with the latest on several blazes -- Ted.

ROWLANDS: Well, although the wind has picked up in the last few hours, Mother Nature has really chipped in in the firefighting efforts today and overnight, especially. Three of the six wildfires in Southern California have now been completely contained. There are still three that are being worked on, two of them here in Riverside County, another up in Santa Barbara County in the Los Padres National Forest.

Here in Riverside County, the Cerritos fire is about 30 percent contained, 11,000 acres have burned. The Temecula fire is also 30 percent contained, but 14 homes were lost and 5000 acres were lost from this fire. The big change in the weather is what firefighters say gave them the upper hand and has made all of the difference today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PETERS, CALIFORNIA DEPT. OF FORESTRY: The night before, it was totally defensive. Firefighters were trying to save houses. It was kind of run and gun through the whole night because it was warm and hot. Last night, a lot cooler temperatures, higher humidities. The fire kind of burned in place which allowed us to cut a ring, continue to contain the fire. Good work done by our bulldozers and our hand crews firing operation, we doubled our containment overnight.

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ROWLANDS: And that overnight work is paying off today as they are in a better position, are the firefighters, to handle any wind gusts or any fire flare-ups. It is expected that all of the fires will be contained by the end of the week if the weather patterns hold. This is, as you mentioned, a very early start to the California wildfire season. And there is real concern that this could be the start of a very long year -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ted Rowlands in Temecula, California, thank you.

Other news across America begins with a phoenix rising from the ashes, so to speak. Groundbreaking for the Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site is scheduled for Fourth of July. The 1776-foot building is expected to be completed in five years.

Talk about dramatic dangling, a motorist apparently went backwards instead of forward. These pictures are coming in right now from here in Atlanta. No one's in the car. We'll bring you more information as it becomes available.

Fed up with road rudeness, laws are proposed in more than a dozen states now to penalize motorists for inconsiderate moves such as tailgating, passing on the shoulder, cutting off other drivers, I wonder if flipping the bird fits in there. Experts say while nearly everyone is aggravated by road rudeness, nearly everyone is guilty of it, too.

Spinning out of control, a news helicopter crashed on a rooftop in New York. The reporter and two pilots aboard, believe it or not, all survived this. They were not seriously injured. That chopper had been covering a shooting in Brooklyn before it crashed.

John Kerry's on the campaign trail today in Los Angeles, stumping for votes. He arrived in Southern California yesterday. Meanwhile, President Bush will make remarks on Cinco de Mayo later today at the White House. Both complains are working hard to court Latino voters who could turn out to be a very important factor come November.

The White House is turning out to be some of the most expensive real estate in the world. The Bush/Kerry race is expected to become the first ever billion dollar campaign.

National correspondent Kelly Wallace reports.

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KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are members of opposing teams, but together they will pummel the current record, making the 2004 presidential election the costliest one ever.

Things weren't always this way. Think back to simpler times: 1960, the Kennedy/Nixon race, when experts estimate as much as $30 million was spent. Adjusted for inflation, that amounts to about $180 million in 2002 dollars, less than a fifth of the $1 billion expected to be spent this year.

Presidential campaigns have gotten steadily more expensive, from the $160 million spent during the Reagan/Carter race in 1980 to $500 billion in Bush v. Gore.

LARRY NOBLE, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: In many respects what we're looking at is a money arms race. One party will break a record, and the other party feels it has to match them.

WALLACE: It was the Watergate scandal of the 1970s, during the Nixon administration, and allegations of contributions for access, that led to public financing for presidential candidates. Then came the emergence of unlimited contributions from individuals, labor unions and corporations, a problem that campaign finance watchdogs say spiraled out of control during the 1996 Clinton/Gore campaign.

CHELLIE PINGREE, PRESIDENT, COMMON CAUSE: That has really been the growing concern on the part of the public, is when big donors can give unlimited amounts of money or bundle big groups of money, then what is the resulting influence, and how do you make sure that you separate that opportunity in politics?

WALLACE: Congress banned unlimited contributions to candidates two years ago. So what accounts for the $1 billion record expected this year? Experts say higher individual contribution limits, more small donors, and for the first time two candidates opting out of the public financing system.

(on camera): And that means both candidates can spend as much as they want between now and the summer conventions. Most of their money going to ads on television. Expert say television advertising, the single thing making presidential campaigns more expensive today than they were decades ago.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

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PHILLIPS: Documentary drama, filmmaker Michael Moore gets icky with Mickey. Find out why he says Disney is playing politics.

And marriage, is it a loving bond or a life sentence? Take the marriage stress test later on LIVE FROM...

And sheep, the barnyard animal of choice for LIVE FROM..., they're going the distance. Don't miss the big finish.

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PHILLIPS: Filmmaker Michael Moore has some words for the mouse house. Moore says The Walt Disney Company blocked its Miramax division from distributing his new film "Fahrenheit 911." The movie is critical of President Bush, says Moore.

"The whole story behind this and other attempts to kill our movie will be told in more detail as the days and weeks go on. For nearly a year, this struggle has been a lesson in just how difficult it is in this country to create a piece of art that might upset those in charge. Well, OK, sorry, it will upset them big time. Did I mention it's a comedy?"

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PHILLIPS: Welcome back to the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is LIVE FROM..., I'm Kyra Phillips. Here is what's all new this half hour.

Accusations of abuse raise questions about just how far American interrogators can go. We'll take you in depth with our experts straight ahead.

And making the love connection between marriage and your health, is your spouse making you sick?

But first, here are the top stories we're following for you.

Israeli military sources say their troops shot and killed a Palestinian militant leader today in a village north of Nablus in the West Bank. The sources report that the troops fired on the armed man and afterwards learned that he was a senior Hamas member wanted by Israel.

Israeli security sources report that their jets struck two Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon today. The sources say the Israelis hit the Hezbollah target after shells were fired at Israelis in western Galilee.

U.S. forces massed outside Najaf say that they're working with moderate Iraqi leaders to take control of the fractured city. They're trying to organize a local security force. Rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army have a strong presence in Najaf.

The shocking pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison a vivid example of how not to interrogate prisoners of war. International law prohibits force, mental torture, threats, insults or inhumane treatment. So what does leave?

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