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Rumsfeld Expected to be Grilled Tomorrow on Capitol Hill
Aired May 06, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get a check of the headlines this hour. U.S. troops have rolled into Najaf, taken over the governor's office there. They took the office without resistance. These are pictures of our Jane Arraf as she had exclusive coverage today. You could see her -- obviously, gunshots in the background. Pretty brave move on her part.
But they later came under fire by insurgents in nearby allies and on rooftops. Militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is thought to be holed up in Najaf.
President Bush is meeting with King Abdullah II of Jordan at the White House today to discuss the Mideast crisis. Abdullah postponed a meeting last month after the president endorsed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's to withdraw from Gaza. About half and hour from now, the president and King Abdullah will talk to reporters in the Rose Garden. We'll bring that to you live.
And Senator John Kerry wraps up his three-day focus on education today in San Bernardino, California. The Democratic presidential candidate is due to begin speaking soon about putting quality teachers in every classroom in America. Live pictures now. He's also expected to address the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq.
The latest poll numbers from Gallup show that some of President Bush's support is slipping. Bush's latest approval rating show the country pretty much divided. Forty-nine percent of those surveyed say that they approve or how the president's doing his job. Forty-eight percent disapprove.
Meanwhile, it's a virtual dead heat in the race for the White House. Forty-nine percent of likely voters say Kerry would be their choice for president come November, 48 percent say Bush is their choice. Sixty-two percent of those surveyed say they are not satisfied with how things are going in the U.S. today.
The numbers don't look good either in Iraq. More than half say they don't approve of how the president is handling it, 42 percent approve.
A buck in the Iraqi abuse scandal apparently has stopped at the desk of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld met with an unhappy President Bush yesterday and is expected to be grilled tomorrow on Capitol Hill. CNN's Elaine Quijano is standing by live at the Pentagon -- Elaine. ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra. CNN has learned Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in addition to appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee tomorrow, will also going before the House Armed Services Committee as well. And joining him will be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Richard Myers. Both men, we are told, spending the day preparing for those appearances.
Now in a sign of just how significant tomorrow is, in order to get ready this morning, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld canceled plans to give a speech in Philadelphia to the World Affairs Council today. Instead, sending Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz in his place.
Now Pentagon officials says that the secretary is preparing by going over time lines, working with staff members, going over nuances, all in anticipation on what's expected to be those tough questions on Capitol Hill.
Now already lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have expressed concern. Some Congress members saying that they were not kept in the loop about the details of the investigation, the scope of the allegations in question. Some Democrats have even called for Secretary Rumsfeld to resign. Republicans, not going that far, saying publicly they feel perhaps that's premature.
But question of accountability do continue to swirl. And today, even as new photos of alleged prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq emerged -- we saw pictures in "The Washington Post" today, out in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, at that speech, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said that that particular behavior -- decrying the behavior depicted in the photographs -- simply not representative, according to the deputy defense secretary, of what the U.S. military is all about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable. They betray their comrades who serve honorably every day. And they have damaged the cause for which brave men and women are fighting and dying.
Let me repeat, those actions are totally unacceptable. We will deal with the offenders and we will take action to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: And officials here at the Pentagon echoing that same sense of disgust, much of the same reaction that we heard last week when photos originally appears on CBS' "60 Minutes II."
All of this in an advance of secretary Rumsfeld's appearance tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Again, the secretary spending the day preparing for what's expected to be very tough sessions tomorrow -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Elaine Quijano at the Pentagon, thank you.
Picture of the alleged abuse are causing outrage both in Iraq and the U.S. The soldier in this "Washington Post" photo reportedly told her mother she was, quote, "in the wrong place at the wrong time."
I'm joined now by Sam Kubba who's chairman and CEO of the American Iraqi Chamber of Congress (sic). Sam, thanks for being with us.
SAM KUBBA, CHAIRMAN, CEO, AMERICAN IRAQI CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: My pleasure.
PHILLIPS: First of all, let's talk about your reaction to the photographs and the fact that the president of the United States has not apologized. Do you think that's necessary?
KUBBA: Absolutely. I think what's conspicuous about the interview with the Arab television station is that he didn't apologize. And I think -- although I'm sure he meant well. But the people in Iraq and around the world are going to see this as sort of crocodile tears.
So it's very important, I think, to put closure on this and to do so, I think what we need to bring the people -- make them accountable, and we need a bold gesture from the president.
For example, demolition, demolishing Abu Ghraib Prison, which is the symbol of tyranny during Saddam's period. And, also, possibly, asking Rumsfeld to -- defense secretary -- to step down.
PHILLIPS: So you think the answer is Donald Rumsfeld stepping down. That's a pretty bold statement. Tell me -- tell me why you believe that that is a means to the cure here, or resolution.
KUBBA: Well, I think the -- the president has to show he's serious about this and that he really does care. And I think -- there's always accountability and it always has to stop somewhere. The president being the commander in chief and Secretary Rumsfeld being the person in command of this, should really be accountable, as well as the people, obviously.
This is the equivalent of rape. I mean, in any country, anywhere it's the equivalent of rape. We should have serious consequences. There should be serious consequences.
PHILLIPS: If we look at the overall situation -- I'm not at all saying that these pictures were -- it's an absolute shame. And the soldiers, the MPs, should have never taken these pictures, should have never behaved this way.
But when you look at the history of this prison and what took place in this prison under Saddam Hussein's regime. I mean in no way can you compare the decades of abuse that took place in that prison to Iraqis to what happened here under the reins of U.S. soldiers. KUBBA: Yes, but I mean, what you saw in the pictures is really sadism. It's a sadistic -- it's unbelievable American soldiers -- it puts me to shame being an American. It puts humans to shame, being a human being that they can be sadistic and take pleasure and glee as the photos showed.
I think we need to put closure on this. And I think one way to do it is really to knock down the prison, take it out of existence because it's a symbol. It's a symbol of torture and tyranny. And I think we need to do away with it.
And like I said, personally, I believe very strongly we need a bold gesture and someone must be accountable. In my opinion it should be the minister of defense, secretary of defense.
PHILLIPS: You talk about a major PR campaign needs to take place in Iraq. How would you conduct that campaign?
KUBBA: Well, think that would be the beginning. Such a bold gesture would be the beginning of the PR campaign. And then we have to get people working. If we can get people working, hopefully in time people will start to forget because it's not just the Iraqis that are being the victims here -- I think, in my opinion, it's all humanity. This is where we need to do something about it because it's humans all over the world that see this and feel disgusted.
I think Iraq we need to get them working, find way of getting Iraqi contractors working, getting the people working so they can put food on the table, so that they can try to minimize the insurgency and terrorism that's happening around the country.
PHILLIPS: Sam, on that point of what you said about Donald Rumsfeld, I'm told we just got sound in. Charles Rangel actually supporting what you had so say about Donald Rumsfeld and his job. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: ... my rhetoric by taking action. And if the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
Then the whole world would know, not just our military, not just Americans, but the whole world what we stand for.
If people can say mission completed when it looks like there's victory and we see atrocities like this and it happens on someone's watch, if they don't have the dignity to say I'm sorry and move on, then we have the responsibility under our Constitution to remove these people from office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Sam, is there anything that Donald Rumsfeld can say tomorrow in this Senate hearing that would make you feel better? KUBBA: Well, to be honest with you, I think it's a matter of -- it's too late for that. I think what we need to do now is to tell the Iraqi people we're sorry and to tell the Iraqi people that this is a sign that we are serious and we want to open a new page with a new defense secretary.
PHILLIPS: We have seen General Kimmitt apologize. Sam Kubba, chairman, CEO of the American Iraqi Chamber of Congress (sic), thank you for your time, sir.
KUBBA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: This is not the first time allegations of abuse has risen.
CNN's Jason Carroll revisits allegations made by detainees held after the 9/11 attacks at a non-military U.S. facility on U.S. soil.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ehab Elmaghraby saw pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. soldiers and thought of the abuse he says he suffered while being held in a U.S. prison.
EHAB ELMAGHRABY, FORMER DETAINEE: From the first day, five officers and one lieutenant just come and start to grab me and kick me in the back and hit me in the head and hit me in the chest.
CARROLL: Elmaghraby told his story from his home in Alexandria, Egypt. He says when he lived in New York City he was one of hundreds of Arabs and Muslims detained in the weeks following 9/11. His life as a restaurateur in Times Square ended when federal agents showed up at his home September 30, 2001.
ELMAGHRABY: Some officers start to grab me from my head to hit me in my back, to kick me in my leg.
CARROLL: The abuse is alleged in a federal lawsuit naming a former warden, several officers and U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft as defendants saying one day Elmaghraby is stripped and an officer inserts a flashlight into his anal cavity until he bled. Another day a pencil is used, racial slurs, broken teeth, strip searches in front of a female staff member.
ELMAGHRABY: Any kind of abuse (unintelligible). They may strip search you like three, four times a day. They kick in the door. They leave the light on 24 hour, I can't -- couldn't make any phone calls to my family for the first four months and when I asked anybody they say no social call for terrorists.
CARROLL: Allegations of abuse became so prevalent the warden at the time required videotaping whenever a 9/11 detainee was moved. Some images, like this one showing officers pushing a detainee's head against a wall, were included in an investigative report by the U.S. Inspector General. GLENN FINE, INSPECTOR GENERAL: We found evidence indicating that in some cases detainees were slammed against the wall, that the correctional officers stepped on their chains as they were walking. Some correctional officers bent their fingers and arms back.
CARROLL: An attorney for the facility's former warden says his client did nothing wrong and any comparisons to what may have happened at the prison to what happened to Iraqi prisoners is wrong.
Elmaghraby was cleared of any terrorist involvement. He pled guilty to credit card fraud and was deported. He has no plans to return to the country he once loved.
Despite the inspector general's findings and Elmaghraby's claims, the Justice Department did not find sufficient evidence to bring charges against anyone at the prison. A spokesman for the Bureau of Prisons would not comment on the abuse allegations, but says it's conducting its own investigation.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: America has been in need of a serious image makeover in the Arab world for years. So what kind of damage will those pictures of abused prisoners do? We're going to take a look, straight ahead. Also ahead, sneakers that are smarter than you, but you better be ready to shell out some serious bucks.
And adios amigos, time to say goodbye to "Friends."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: How is the Arab world at large responding to President Bush's interviews? Well, it's still leading the newscast overseas on all the Arabic networks. CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr continues to monitor and translate what is being aired and discussed. Well, first of all, What's the lead story? Is it still the prison scandal?
OCTAVIA NASR, SR. EDITOR, ARAB AFFAIRS: The prison scandal. More pictures today, Kyra. And the pictures are there, on every show, on every network, on every paper. This is the story that seems -- that doesn't want to go away, anywhere, anytime soon.
PHILLIPS: And let me ask you, how are the networks covering the prison with regard to what happened there, under Saddam's regime? I mean, obviously, the worst crimes possible of torture happened there for decades. Are they still reminding the people overseas that that took place?
NASR: When the story first broke out, that's exactly what they did. And you saw reports on -- for example, this is one of those -- al Arabiya here did a story on how this prison and, of course, these are not pictures from under -- from the time when Saddam Hussein was still in power. Here, this is a comparison with how the prison was handled back in October of 2003. Al Arabiya did a documentary back then, and they interviewed Major General Karpinski here. You saw her earlier in the picture.
But basically, they are reminding viewers that this is the shameful place under Saddam Hussein. Many people were tortured there. Many people were even beaten to death there. So they're make sure that their audience doesn't forget that, but at the same time, they're comparing it with what's going on now, and all these pictures coming out, saying, see, we told you back in October this was going on, we interviewed Major General Karpinski, asked her about allegations of abuse, and she said absolutely not, there is no abuse in this prison.
PHILLIPS: Of course from the U.S. perspective, they're saying you can't compare what happened here to what happened under Saddam Hussein. And when it comes to the investigation of U.S. soldiers, only one allegation of actual physical abuse, quite different, though, from what Saddam Hussein did from what I understand.
But you just showed this video, for the first time we're seeing this video, this documentary, on al Arabiya. So General Karpinski then actually said absolutely, there was no abuses taking place here, and now months later, the complete opposite is coming out.
NASR: Right, and that makes it a big story for them. You see, they're saying, we've been reporting on this for a while. No one was listening to this. We were being criticize ford make things up, for fabricating stories. You know there was a huge campaign on -- a U.S. campaign against -- especially al Arabiya and al Jazeera. They were called liars in some cases, because of the way they report the story in Iraq.
So now this is their big moment. This is their time to shine. To say, see, we told you so. And of course the president went on al Arabiya and al Hurra yesterday to try to make his case to the Arabs and the Iraqi people in particular, and that had some reaction as well today on Arab media.
PHILLIPS: Now is there any reaction, or is there talk about this meeting with the president and King Abdullah that's going to happen minutes from now. How's that playing out on the airwaves? Are they talking about that overseas?
NASR: You see more about that in papers than on TV. As soon as they finish that meeting and they will have a statement, the Arab networks will -- and this is based on of course history, the way they carry these events -- they will take it live. They will have a debate over it.
The Arab media right now is waiting for signs. They're waiting for signs from President Bush, from King Abdullah. They want to see where the peace process is heading from this moment on. They want to know where the U.S. stands on the issue of peace in the Middle East, on the issue of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. And they also want to know the positioning of the king when it come to U.S. foreign policy.
PHILLIPS: CNN's senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr, thanks so much.
NASR: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: President Bush and King Abdullah are expected in the Rose Garden about 2:05 p.m. Eastern time. We'll bring it to you live as soon as it starts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MARKET UPDATE)
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PHILLIPS: Mr. Bush and the rest of the world woke up today to a new batch of disturbing images from Abu Ghraib Prison. "The Washingtopn Post" says it obtained more than a thousand digital photos from Iraq, many mundane but some depicting the same types of prisoner abuse and humiliation that we first got a look at just a week ago. At least of the U.S. soldiers depicted in the new phots was also in the first batch.
Some U.S. lawmakers are proposing that Abu Ghraib Prison should be demolished. Some lawmakers also say that Donald Rumsfeld should go. On the eve of what's sure to be an uncomfortable appearance before the Senate Armed Service Committee, Rumsfeld is hearing calls for his resignation. But it's not yet a chorus. And the defense secretary still has defenders on Capitol Hill, and more importantly at the White House.
CNN's Sean Callebs is following these developments in our Washington bureau -- Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, leading Democrats are setting their sights on Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. While Republicans are upset that they found out through the prison scandal media and want an explanation, Democrats are going further. Some want him fired, deminading he step down. One saying he is interested in impeaching to defense secretary.
Rumsfeld has spent the day preparing for his appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Friday. Some congressional members are saying that Rumsfeld could be in for the political fight of his life.
Rumsfeld met this morning with four Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee and told them there is, quote, "a rational explanation for everything that happened at that prison." They describe Rumsfeld as upbeat, a veteran of high stakes showdowns on Capitol Hill.
Still, some lawmakers are lived that they found out about the abuse from the media. Senator Tommy Harking was the first to call on Rumsfeld to step down, but not the last. Representative Charlie Rangel has called for Rumsfeld's job before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: I think America and the world wants us to show the outrage, not by rhetoric but by taking action.
And if the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: As Kyra just mentioned, there is a proposal on Capitol Hill that the notorious Abu Ghraib Prison be torn down. That measure is apparently picking up some steam.
Meanwhile, Republicans are saying Democrats are playing politics with the abuse scandal, saying Democrats are less concerned about the plight of the prisoners than the November election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: They want to win the White House more than they want to win the war, and our enemies know it.
I'm not questioning their patriotism. Don't let them play that little game again. I'm questioning their judgment and their fitness to lead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: And, Kyra, some lawmakers are also demanding an apology from Rumsfeld when that hearing starts tomorrow.
PHILLIPS: Sean Callebs, thank you so much.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures now from the Rose Guarden. We've be talking about this meeting between the president of the United States and King Abdullah of Jordan. They've been talking about the Mideast. Let's listen in.
I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate the opportunity to hear your thoughts on a range of issues that face your country and mine at this time of challenge and opportunity in the Middle East. The economic relationship between our two countries has never been stronger. We continue to increase the ties of trade and investment, creating new opportunities for both our people. The free trade agreement between jordan and the United States is a model for the region. As my government works to build a Middle East free trade agreement. The United States is committed to helping jordan along the path of prosperity through our strong support at the world bank and international -- and the international monetary fund, and we're proud to support jordan through our support for jordan's social and economic transformation program. You might have seen this team of individuals who care deeply about the citizens of the kingdom of jordan. Spent quite a bit of time talking about lasting prosperity in jordan and our desire to help jordan achieve lasting prosperity. We also know that lasting prosperity requires lasting security and peace in the region. Our two countries are working closely to insure that the Middle East becomes safer and more prosperous and more free. The fall of Saddam Hussein removed the source of instability and intimidation from the heart of the Middle East. All of Iraq's neighbors including jordan are safer now. And the emergence of the peaceful, prosperous and free Iraq will contribute to jordan's security and prosperity. The United States strongly supports the efforts of U.N. Security general's special adviser brahimi to work with Iraqis to develop an interim government. His majesty and I talked about that on june 30th, a sovereign Iraqi government will take office. Our coalition partners will continue to work with the United Nations to prepare for nationwide elections that will choose a new government in january of 2005. Jordan and the United States share a vision for free, stable and prosperous Middle East. Under the king's leadership jordan has become a force for reform and positive change in the region. This month jordan will be hosting a meeting of the world economic forum, another important milestone on the Middle East journey to greater openness and opportunity and liberty. Next june g-8 nations will discuss ways that we can support reform in the Middle East. We'll look to the results of your world economic forum, your majesty, as a guide for future actions. Your majesty and I also discussed our ongoing desire for peace in Palestine. I commend the king's personal commitment for peace and justice to all parties. I remain committed to the vision I laid out here in the rose garden in 2002 of two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security. And to the establishment of the Palestinian state that was viable, contiguous, sovereign and independent. I support the plan announced by prime minister sharon to withdraw settlements from gaza and parts of the west bank. His bold plan can make a real contribution to peace. Particularly of reform minded Palestinians will step forward and lead toward the establishment of a peaceful Palestinian state. As I have previously stated, all final status issues must be negotiated between the parties and with security council resolutions 242 and 338. The United States will not project disthe outcome of those negotiations. The road map is the best path to realizing the two-state vision. That is why the road map is a plan endorsed by the Palestinians, Israel and the United Nations, the European union and Russia, the United States and many other nation. That's why my administration is committed to making it a reality. Today, the king had some suggestions about how to explain our position to the Palestinians. I appreciate your advice, your majesty. You've advised that I make sure the Palestinians understand my desire for a just peace, my desire for their to be a prosperous country, my desire that the Palestinian people have a chance to realize their hopes and aspirations. I told his majesty I will shortly send the Palestinian prime minister a letter that will explain my views, and we will expand dialogue between the United States and Palestinians. I want to appreciate your wise counsel, your majesty. We also talked about what has been on the TV screens recently not only in our own country but overseas. The images of cruelty and humiliation. I told his majesty as plainly as I could that the wrongdoers will be brought to justice and that the actions of those folks in Iraq do not represent the values of the United States of America. I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families. I told him I was equally sorry that the people that have seen those pictures didn't understand the true nature and heart of America. I assured him that Americans like me didn't appreciate what we saw and it made us sick to our stomachs. I also made it clear to his majesty that the troops we have in Iraq who were there for security and peace and freedom, are the finest of the fine, fantastic United States citizens who represent the very best qualities of America, courage, love of freedom, compassion and decency. Your majesty, I'm proud you're here, I appreciate you coming. Jordan is a friend of the United States and friends look out for one another. I understand your country and your people have important interests at stake in the Middle East. Your country has important interests at stake when it comes to a Palestinian/Israeli peace agreement. You've got important interests in the emergence of a new Iraq. I assure you my government views jordan's security and prosperity and territorial integrity as vital. We will oppose any developments in the region that might endanger your interests. I look forward to working closely with you to achieve peace and freedom. We'll work with you to assist you in your historic efforts to lead jordan to greater peace and freedom and prosperity. Welcome to you.
Plmt, thank you for this opportunity to meet with you today and to discuss vital issues of interest to both of our countries. I remain very concerned about the critical phase our region is passing through. It is very important for the moderate voices seeking peace in our region to prevail so that we can break out of the cycle of violence which has held us back for too long and put the region on the new path to stability and prosperity. I'd like to outline the jordanian position on the peace process, particularly the view of recent developments. We feel that any unilateral Israeli withdraw from the west bank should be part of the road map. And should lead to the achievement of your vision of a two-state solution. Let me stress that a viable, sovereign and independent Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders, is also in jordan's national interests. Failing to achieve such an outcome will invoke other options. All of which will endanger my country's interests and that of the region. This is one of the reasons why jordan supports a two-state solution and why it supports the road map as the mechanism to get there. Jordan remains committed to a final and comprehensive permanent status agreement based on the foundations of the Madrid conference, the principle of land for peace, U.N. Security council resolutions 242, 338 and 1397, agreements reached by the parties and the Arab initiative endorsed by the beirut Arab league summit. Jordan also believes all final status issues including borders, refugees, jerusalem and settlements should be a matter for the parties to decide. I am encouraged by what I've heard from you today, sir, that these issues are not to be prejudiced and should be mutually agreed by the parties. The context of the road map, I want to assure you, Mr. President, that jordan is ready to do its part in assisting the Palestinian authority to rebuild its capability and assume full control of the security situation. Jordan stands shoulder to shoulder with the United States and the international community in our common fight against terrorism. We cannot allow the terrorists' political agenda to succeed. And we assure you that jordan will continue to do its utmost to help win this cause. Jordan is committed to support the Iraqis in their quest to regain that sovereignty. Rebuild their institutions and establish a society based on freedom and democracy. The stability, unity and territorial integrity of Iraq is an objective we both share and we are determined to achieve it. Jordan is also committed to a process of political and economic reform in the region. We have adopted a far reaching plan that addresses the key areas of good governance, political freedoms, women's rights, judicial reform, economic reform, education reform and the liberalization of the economy. We also are strongly committed to a key role by civil society. Our aim is to move towards a system that respects diversity and guarantees pluerism at all times so that democracy is not used by any who might opt to subject to it once and then deny it to others.
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Aired May 6, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get a check of the headlines this hour. U.S. troops have rolled into Najaf, taken over the governor's office there. They took the office without resistance. These are pictures of our Jane Arraf as she had exclusive coverage today. You could see her -- obviously, gunshots in the background. Pretty brave move on her part.
But they later came under fire by insurgents in nearby allies and on rooftops. Militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is thought to be holed up in Najaf.
President Bush is meeting with King Abdullah II of Jordan at the White House today to discuss the Mideast crisis. Abdullah postponed a meeting last month after the president endorsed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's to withdraw from Gaza. About half and hour from now, the president and King Abdullah will talk to reporters in the Rose Garden. We'll bring that to you live.
And Senator John Kerry wraps up his three-day focus on education today in San Bernardino, California. The Democratic presidential candidate is due to begin speaking soon about putting quality teachers in every classroom in America. Live pictures now. He's also expected to address the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq.
The latest poll numbers from Gallup show that some of President Bush's support is slipping. Bush's latest approval rating show the country pretty much divided. Forty-nine percent of those surveyed say that they approve or how the president's doing his job. Forty-eight percent disapprove.
Meanwhile, it's a virtual dead heat in the race for the White House. Forty-nine percent of likely voters say Kerry would be their choice for president come November, 48 percent say Bush is their choice. Sixty-two percent of those surveyed say they are not satisfied with how things are going in the U.S. today.
The numbers don't look good either in Iraq. More than half say they don't approve of how the president is handling it, 42 percent approve.
A buck in the Iraqi abuse scandal apparently has stopped at the desk of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld met with an unhappy President Bush yesterday and is expected to be grilled tomorrow on Capitol Hill. CNN's Elaine Quijano is standing by live at the Pentagon -- Elaine. ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra. CNN has learned Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in addition to appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee tomorrow, will also going before the House Armed Services Committee as well. And joining him will be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Richard Myers. Both men, we are told, spending the day preparing for those appearances.
Now in a sign of just how significant tomorrow is, in order to get ready this morning, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld canceled plans to give a speech in Philadelphia to the World Affairs Council today. Instead, sending Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz in his place.
Now Pentagon officials says that the secretary is preparing by going over time lines, working with staff members, going over nuances, all in anticipation on what's expected to be those tough questions on Capitol Hill.
Now already lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have expressed concern. Some Congress members saying that they were not kept in the loop about the details of the investigation, the scope of the allegations in question. Some Democrats have even called for Secretary Rumsfeld to resign. Republicans, not going that far, saying publicly they feel perhaps that's premature.
But question of accountability do continue to swirl. And today, even as new photos of alleged prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq emerged -- we saw pictures in "The Washington Post" today, out in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, at that speech, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said that that particular behavior -- decrying the behavior depicted in the photographs -- simply not representative, according to the deputy defense secretary, of what the U.S. military is all about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable. They betray their comrades who serve honorably every day. And they have damaged the cause for which brave men and women are fighting and dying.
Let me repeat, those actions are totally unacceptable. We will deal with the offenders and we will take action to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: And officials here at the Pentagon echoing that same sense of disgust, much of the same reaction that we heard last week when photos originally appears on CBS' "60 Minutes II."
All of this in an advance of secretary Rumsfeld's appearance tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Again, the secretary spending the day preparing for what's expected to be very tough sessions tomorrow -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Elaine Quijano at the Pentagon, thank you.
Picture of the alleged abuse are causing outrage both in Iraq and the U.S. The soldier in this "Washington Post" photo reportedly told her mother she was, quote, "in the wrong place at the wrong time."
I'm joined now by Sam Kubba who's chairman and CEO of the American Iraqi Chamber of Congress (sic). Sam, thanks for being with us.
SAM KUBBA, CHAIRMAN, CEO, AMERICAN IRAQI CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: My pleasure.
PHILLIPS: First of all, let's talk about your reaction to the photographs and the fact that the president of the United States has not apologized. Do you think that's necessary?
KUBBA: Absolutely. I think what's conspicuous about the interview with the Arab television station is that he didn't apologize. And I think -- although I'm sure he meant well. But the people in Iraq and around the world are going to see this as sort of crocodile tears.
So it's very important, I think, to put closure on this and to do so, I think what we need to bring the people -- make them accountable, and we need a bold gesture from the president.
For example, demolition, demolishing Abu Ghraib Prison, which is the symbol of tyranny during Saddam's period. And, also, possibly, asking Rumsfeld to -- defense secretary -- to step down.
PHILLIPS: So you think the answer is Donald Rumsfeld stepping down. That's a pretty bold statement. Tell me -- tell me why you believe that that is a means to the cure here, or resolution.
KUBBA: Well, I think the -- the president has to show he's serious about this and that he really does care. And I think -- there's always accountability and it always has to stop somewhere. The president being the commander in chief and Secretary Rumsfeld being the person in command of this, should really be accountable, as well as the people, obviously.
This is the equivalent of rape. I mean, in any country, anywhere it's the equivalent of rape. We should have serious consequences. There should be serious consequences.
PHILLIPS: If we look at the overall situation -- I'm not at all saying that these pictures were -- it's an absolute shame. And the soldiers, the MPs, should have never taken these pictures, should have never behaved this way.
But when you look at the history of this prison and what took place in this prison under Saddam Hussein's regime. I mean in no way can you compare the decades of abuse that took place in that prison to Iraqis to what happened here under the reins of U.S. soldiers. KUBBA: Yes, but I mean, what you saw in the pictures is really sadism. It's a sadistic -- it's unbelievable American soldiers -- it puts me to shame being an American. It puts humans to shame, being a human being that they can be sadistic and take pleasure and glee as the photos showed.
I think we need to put closure on this. And I think one way to do it is really to knock down the prison, take it out of existence because it's a symbol. It's a symbol of torture and tyranny. And I think we need to do away with it.
And like I said, personally, I believe very strongly we need a bold gesture and someone must be accountable. In my opinion it should be the minister of defense, secretary of defense.
PHILLIPS: You talk about a major PR campaign needs to take place in Iraq. How would you conduct that campaign?
KUBBA: Well, think that would be the beginning. Such a bold gesture would be the beginning of the PR campaign. And then we have to get people working. If we can get people working, hopefully in time people will start to forget because it's not just the Iraqis that are being the victims here -- I think, in my opinion, it's all humanity. This is where we need to do something about it because it's humans all over the world that see this and feel disgusted.
I think Iraq we need to get them working, find way of getting Iraqi contractors working, getting the people working so they can put food on the table, so that they can try to minimize the insurgency and terrorism that's happening around the country.
PHILLIPS: Sam, on that point of what you said about Donald Rumsfeld, I'm told we just got sound in. Charles Rangel actually supporting what you had so say about Donald Rumsfeld and his job. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: ... my rhetoric by taking action. And if the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
Then the whole world would know, not just our military, not just Americans, but the whole world what we stand for.
If people can say mission completed when it looks like there's victory and we see atrocities like this and it happens on someone's watch, if they don't have the dignity to say I'm sorry and move on, then we have the responsibility under our Constitution to remove these people from office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Sam, is there anything that Donald Rumsfeld can say tomorrow in this Senate hearing that would make you feel better? KUBBA: Well, to be honest with you, I think it's a matter of -- it's too late for that. I think what we need to do now is to tell the Iraqi people we're sorry and to tell the Iraqi people that this is a sign that we are serious and we want to open a new page with a new defense secretary.
PHILLIPS: We have seen General Kimmitt apologize. Sam Kubba, chairman, CEO of the American Iraqi Chamber of Congress (sic), thank you for your time, sir.
KUBBA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: This is not the first time allegations of abuse has risen.
CNN's Jason Carroll revisits allegations made by detainees held after the 9/11 attacks at a non-military U.S. facility on U.S. soil.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ehab Elmaghraby saw pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. soldiers and thought of the abuse he says he suffered while being held in a U.S. prison.
EHAB ELMAGHRABY, FORMER DETAINEE: From the first day, five officers and one lieutenant just come and start to grab me and kick me in the back and hit me in the head and hit me in the chest.
CARROLL: Elmaghraby told his story from his home in Alexandria, Egypt. He says when he lived in New York City he was one of hundreds of Arabs and Muslims detained in the weeks following 9/11. His life as a restaurateur in Times Square ended when federal agents showed up at his home September 30, 2001.
ELMAGHRABY: Some officers start to grab me from my head to hit me in my back, to kick me in my leg.
CARROLL: The abuse is alleged in a federal lawsuit naming a former warden, several officers and U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft as defendants saying one day Elmaghraby is stripped and an officer inserts a flashlight into his anal cavity until he bled. Another day a pencil is used, racial slurs, broken teeth, strip searches in front of a female staff member.
ELMAGHRABY: Any kind of abuse (unintelligible). They may strip search you like three, four times a day. They kick in the door. They leave the light on 24 hour, I can't -- couldn't make any phone calls to my family for the first four months and when I asked anybody they say no social call for terrorists.
CARROLL: Allegations of abuse became so prevalent the warden at the time required videotaping whenever a 9/11 detainee was moved. Some images, like this one showing officers pushing a detainee's head against a wall, were included in an investigative report by the U.S. Inspector General. GLENN FINE, INSPECTOR GENERAL: We found evidence indicating that in some cases detainees were slammed against the wall, that the correctional officers stepped on their chains as they were walking. Some correctional officers bent their fingers and arms back.
CARROLL: An attorney for the facility's former warden says his client did nothing wrong and any comparisons to what may have happened at the prison to what happened to Iraqi prisoners is wrong.
Elmaghraby was cleared of any terrorist involvement. He pled guilty to credit card fraud and was deported. He has no plans to return to the country he once loved.
Despite the inspector general's findings and Elmaghraby's claims, the Justice Department did not find sufficient evidence to bring charges against anyone at the prison. A spokesman for the Bureau of Prisons would not comment on the abuse allegations, but says it's conducting its own investigation.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: America has been in need of a serious image makeover in the Arab world for years. So what kind of damage will those pictures of abused prisoners do? We're going to take a look, straight ahead. Also ahead, sneakers that are smarter than you, but you better be ready to shell out some serious bucks.
And adios amigos, time to say goodbye to "Friends."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: How is the Arab world at large responding to President Bush's interviews? Well, it's still leading the newscast overseas on all the Arabic networks. CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr continues to monitor and translate what is being aired and discussed. Well, first of all, What's the lead story? Is it still the prison scandal?
OCTAVIA NASR, SR. EDITOR, ARAB AFFAIRS: The prison scandal. More pictures today, Kyra. And the pictures are there, on every show, on every network, on every paper. This is the story that seems -- that doesn't want to go away, anywhere, anytime soon.
PHILLIPS: And let me ask you, how are the networks covering the prison with regard to what happened there, under Saddam's regime? I mean, obviously, the worst crimes possible of torture happened there for decades. Are they still reminding the people overseas that that took place?
NASR: When the story first broke out, that's exactly what they did. And you saw reports on -- for example, this is one of those -- al Arabiya here did a story on how this prison and, of course, these are not pictures from under -- from the time when Saddam Hussein was still in power. Here, this is a comparison with how the prison was handled back in October of 2003. Al Arabiya did a documentary back then, and they interviewed Major General Karpinski here. You saw her earlier in the picture.
But basically, they are reminding viewers that this is the shameful place under Saddam Hussein. Many people were tortured there. Many people were even beaten to death there. So they're make sure that their audience doesn't forget that, but at the same time, they're comparing it with what's going on now, and all these pictures coming out, saying, see, we told you back in October this was going on, we interviewed Major General Karpinski, asked her about allegations of abuse, and she said absolutely not, there is no abuse in this prison.
PHILLIPS: Of course from the U.S. perspective, they're saying you can't compare what happened here to what happened under Saddam Hussein. And when it comes to the investigation of U.S. soldiers, only one allegation of actual physical abuse, quite different, though, from what Saddam Hussein did from what I understand.
But you just showed this video, for the first time we're seeing this video, this documentary, on al Arabiya. So General Karpinski then actually said absolutely, there was no abuses taking place here, and now months later, the complete opposite is coming out.
NASR: Right, and that makes it a big story for them. You see, they're saying, we've been reporting on this for a while. No one was listening to this. We were being criticize ford make things up, for fabricating stories. You know there was a huge campaign on -- a U.S. campaign against -- especially al Arabiya and al Jazeera. They were called liars in some cases, because of the way they report the story in Iraq.
So now this is their big moment. This is their time to shine. To say, see, we told you so. And of course the president went on al Arabiya and al Hurra yesterday to try to make his case to the Arabs and the Iraqi people in particular, and that had some reaction as well today on Arab media.
PHILLIPS: Now is there any reaction, or is there talk about this meeting with the president and King Abdullah that's going to happen minutes from now. How's that playing out on the airwaves? Are they talking about that overseas?
NASR: You see more about that in papers than on TV. As soon as they finish that meeting and they will have a statement, the Arab networks will -- and this is based on of course history, the way they carry these events -- they will take it live. They will have a debate over it.
The Arab media right now is waiting for signs. They're waiting for signs from President Bush, from King Abdullah. They want to see where the peace process is heading from this moment on. They want to know where the U.S. stands on the issue of peace in the Middle East, on the issue of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. And they also want to know the positioning of the king when it come to U.S. foreign policy.
PHILLIPS: CNN's senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr, thanks so much.
NASR: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: President Bush and King Abdullah are expected in the Rose Garden about 2:05 p.m. Eastern time. We'll bring it to you live as soon as it starts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MARKET UPDATE)
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
PHILLIPS: Mr. Bush and the rest of the world woke up today to a new batch of disturbing images from Abu Ghraib Prison. "The Washingtopn Post" says it obtained more than a thousand digital photos from Iraq, many mundane but some depicting the same types of prisoner abuse and humiliation that we first got a look at just a week ago. At least of the U.S. soldiers depicted in the new phots was also in the first batch.
Some U.S. lawmakers are proposing that Abu Ghraib Prison should be demolished. Some lawmakers also say that Donald Rumsfeld should go. On the eve of what's sure to be an uncomfortable appearance before the Senate Armed Service Committee, Rumsfeld is hearing calls for his resignation. But it's not yet a chorus. And the defense secretary still has defenders on Capitol Hill, and more importantly at the White House.
CNN's Sean Callebs is following these developments in our Washington bureau -- Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, leading Democrats are setting their sights on Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. While Republicans are upset that they found out through the prison scandal media and want an explanation, Democrats are going further. Some want him fired, deminading he step down. One saying he is interested in impeaching to defense secretary.
Rumsfeld has spent the day preparing for his appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Friday. Some congressional members are saying that Rumsfeld could be in for the political fight of his life.
Rumsfeld met this morning with four Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee and told them there is, quote, "a rational explanation for everything that happened at that prison." They describe Rumsfeld as upbeat, a veteran of high stakes showdowns on Capitol Hill.
Still, some lawmakers are lived that they found out about the abuse from the media. Senator Tommy Harking was the first to call on Rumsfeld to step down, but not the last. Representative Charlie Rangel has called for Rumsfeld's job before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: I think America and the world wants us to show the outrage, not by rhetoric but by taking action.
And if the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: As Kyra just mentioned, there is a proposal on Capitol Hill that the notorious Abu Ghraib Prison be torn down. That measure is apparently picking up some steam.
Meanwhile, Republicans are saying Democrats are playing politics with the abuse scandal, saying Democrats are less concerned about the plight of the prisoners than the November election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: They want to win the White House more than they want to win the war, and our enemies know it.
I'm not questioning their patriotism. Don't let them play that little game again. I'm questioning their judgment and their fitness to lead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: And, Kyra, some lawmakers are also demanding an apology from Rumsfeld when that hearing starts tomorrow.
PHILLIPS: Sean Callebs, thank you so much.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures now from the Rose Guarden. We've be talking about this meeting between the president of the United States and King Abdullah of Jordan. They've been talking about the Mideast. Let's listen in.
I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate the opportunity to hear your thoughts on a range of issues that face your country and mine at this time of challenge and opportunity in the Middle East. The economic relationship between our two countries has never been stronger. We continue to increase the ties of trade and investment, creating new opportunities for both our people. The free trade agreement between jordan and the United States is a model for the region. As my government works to build a Middle East free trade agreement. The United States is committed to helping jordan along the path of prosperity through our strong support at the world bank and international -- and the international monetary fund, and we're proud to support jordan through our support for jordan's social and economic transformation program. You might have seen this team of individuals who care deeply about the citizens of the kingdom of jordan. Spent quite a bit of time talking about lasting prosperity in jordan and our desire to help jordan achieve lasting prosperity. We also know that lasting prosperity requires lasting security and peace in the region. Our two countries are working closely to insure that the Middle East becomes safer and more prosperous and more free. The fall of Saddam Hussein removed the source of instability and intimidation from the heart of the Middle East. All of Iraq's neighbors including jordan are safer now. And the emergence of the peaceful, prosperous and free Iraq will contribute to jordan's security and prosperity. The United States strongly supports the efforts of U.N. Security general's special adviser brahimi to work with Iraqis to develop an interim government. His majesty and I talked about that on june 30th, a sovereign Iraqi government will take office. Our coalition partners will continue to work with the United Nations to prepare for nationwide elections that will choose a new government in january of 2005. Jordan and the United States share a vision for free, stable and prosperous Middle East. Under the king's leadership jordan has become a force for reform and positive change in the region. This month jordan will be hosting a meeting of the world economic forum, another important milestone on the Middle East journey to greater openness and opportunity and liberty. Next june g-8 nations will discuss ways that we can support reform in the Middle East. We'll look to the results of your world economic forum, your majesty, as a guide for future actions. Your majesty and I also discussed our ongoing desire for peace in Palestine. I commend the king's personal commitment for peace and justice to all parties. I remain committed to the vision I laid out here in the rose garden in 2002 of two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security. And to the establishment of the Palestinian state that was viable, contiguous, sovereign and independent. I support the plan announced by prime minister sharon to withdraw settlements from gaza and parts of the west bank. His bold plan can make a real contribution to peace. Particularly of reform minded Palestinians will step forward and lead toward the establishment of a peaceful Palestinian state. As I have previously stated, all final status issues must be negotiated between the parties and with security council resolutions 242 and 338. The United States will not project disthe outcome of those negotiations. The road map is the best path to realizing the two-state vision. That is why the road map is a plan endorsed by the Palestinians, Israel and the United Nations, the European union and Russia, the United States and many other nation. That's why my administration is committed to making it a reality. Today, the king had some suggestions about how to explain our position to the Palestinians. I appreciate your advice, your majesty. You've advised that I make sure the Palestinians understand my desire for a just peace, my desire for their to be a prosperous country, my desire that the Palestinian people have a chance to realize their hopes and aspirations. I told his majesty I will shortly send the Palestinian prime minister a letter that will explain my views, and we will expand dialogue between the United States and Palestinians. I want to appreciate your wise counsel, your majesty. We also talked about what has been on the TV screens recently not only in our own country but overseas. The images of cruelty and humiliation. I told his majesty as plainly as I could that the wrongdoers will be brought to justice and that the actions of those folks in Iraq do not represent the values of the United States of America. I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families. I told him I was equally sorry that the people that have seen those pictures didn't understand the true nature and heart of America. I assured him that Americans like me didn't appreciate what we saw and it made us sick to our stomachs. I also made it clear to his majesty that the troops we have in Iraq who were there for security and peace and freedom, are the finest of the fine, fantastic United States citizens who represent the very best qualities of America, courage, love of freedom, compassion and decency. Your majesty, I'm proud you're here, I appreciate you coming. Jordan is a friend of the United States and friends look out for one another. I understand your country and your people have important interests at stake in the Middle East. Your country has important interests at stake when it comes to a Palestinian/Israeli peace agreement. You've got important interests in the emergence of a new Iraq. I assure you my government views jordan's security and prosperity and territorial integrity as vital. We will oppose any developments in the region that might endanger your interests. I look forward to working closely with you to achieve peace and freedom. We'll work with you to assist you in your historic efforts to lead jordan to greater peace and freedom and prosperity. Welcome to you.
Plmt, thank you for this opportunity to meet with you today and to discuss vital issues of interest to both of our countries. I remain very concerned about the critical phase our region is passing through. It is very important for the moderate voices seeking peace in our region to prevail so that we can break out of the cycle of violence which has held us back for too long and put the region on the new path to stability and prosperity. I'd like to outline the jordanian position on the peace process, particularly the view of recent developments. We feel that any unilateral Israeli withdraw from the west bank should be part of the road map. And should lead to the achievement of your vision of a two-state solution. Let me stress that a viable, sovereign and independent Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders, is also in jordan's national interests. Failing to achieve such an outcome will invoke other options. All of which will endanger my country's interests and that of the region. This is one of the reasons why jordan supports a two-state solution and why it supports the road map as the mechanism to get there. Jordan remains committed to a final and comprehensive permanent status agreement based on the foundations of the Madrid conference, the principle of land for peace, U.N. Security council resolutions 242, 338 and 1397, agreements reached by the parties and the Arab initiative endorsed by the beirut Arab league summit. Jordan also believes all final status issues including borders, refugees, jerusalem and settlements should be a matter for the parties to decide. I am encouraged by what I've heard from you today, sir, that these issues are not to be prejudiced and should be mutually agreed by the parties. The context of the road map, I want to assure you, Mr. President, that jordan is ready to do its part in assisting the Palestinian authority to rebuild its capability and assume full control of the security situation. Jordan stands shoulder to shoulder with the United States and the international community in our common fight against terrorism. We cannot allow the terrorists' political agenda to succeed. And we assure you that jordan will continue to do its utmost to help win this cause. Jordan is committed to support the Iraqis in their quest to regain that sovereignty. Rebuild their institutions and establish a society based on freedom and democracy. The stability, unity and territorial integrity of Iraq is an objective we both share and we are determined to achieve it. Jordan is also committed to a process of political and economic reform in the region. We have adopted a far reaching plan that addresses the key areas of good governance, political freedoms, women's rights, judicial reform, economic reform, education reform and the liberalization of the economy. We also are strongly committed to a key role by civil society. Our aim is to move towards a system that respects diversity and guarantees pluerism at all times so that democracy is not used by any who might opt to subject to it once and then deny it to others.
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