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Rumsfeld Shows Bush Photos From Abu Ghraib Prison

Aired May 10, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It is prom season. A time for high school seniors to rent a tux, buy a corsage and gather together as a class to celebrate their accomplishments -- together.
In a small town in southeastern Georgia, they're doing all of that except for the togetherness part. Eric Philips reports on a trio of proms divided along racial lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): April 24 was prom night for students at Toombs County High School in Lions, Georgia. So was May 7, and also May 8. One school, three proms. One predominantly African-American. The second, predominantly white. The last, catering to Hispanic students.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just the way it's always been here.

PHILIPS: Well, almost. For years, people in this rural town in southeast Georgia sponsored two private proms. One drawing a white crowd, the other, mostly black. This year, a third private prom was added for Hispanics. A move some believe to be both positive and negative.

YURI FLORES, JUNIOR TOOMBS COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL: I'm glad because we just have our own, and sad because it has to be this way. It can't be just one together.

PHILIPS: The spark to organize the Hispanic prom was ignited when high school junior Yuri Flores says a member of the committee sponsoring the predominantly white prom made a racist comment.

FLORES: "What part of 'white prom' don't you understand?"

PHILIPS: Prom committee member Ashley Rallins says she's not been able to identify anyone in the group who made that comment. But, she says, three promise is not a bad thing.

ASHLEY RALLINS, JUNIOR, TOOMBS CO. HIGH SCHOOL: It offers us more of an opportunity to experience different atmospheres. If we're all at three separate parties, we have the option to go to all three.

ANNA ROSA PEREZ, JUNIOR, TOOMBS, CO. HIGH SCHOOL: You don't feel right, you know, going somewhere where you don't feel wanted. You can tell when you don't feel wanted.

PHILIPS: The problem is one result of rapidly changing demographics and lines, as Mexican migrant workers harvesting bedelia (ph) onions and other crops are settling here and making it home.

Many believe there are two possible solutions. The first is to have one school-sponsored prom. But the principal says he's under no obligation by the school board to act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have a policy. And until they establish sufficient a policy, I will not get involved.

PHILIPS: Another way the situation could change is if the community came together and sponsored one prom. Students we spoke with say they'd like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's time they should be changed.

PHILIPS: But they say some parents would take issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got them certain people in school whose parents are, you know, racist, and it just wouldn't happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a hidden thing, and it's exposed in times like these.

PHILIPS: Times like these when one night, or in this case, three nights, will create memories that last a lifetime.

Eric Philips, CNN, Lions, Georgia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: President Bush took a trip to the Pentagon today. A show of support for his defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld. And at the photo opportunity said his defense secretary is doing a superb job. But what happened behind closed doors? For a little more on that, we turn it over to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Hello, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Miles. Again, we are now learning details of what the president discussed with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

A senior defense official tells us that Secretary Rumsfeld showed the president several pictures, color photographs of the abuse that has occurred, the alleged abuse that has occurred in Iraq. An official saying there was a significant number of photographs shown, that they were reflecting the general type of activity that has been seen.

Now, to carry a step further, this senior defense official tells reporters that he, himself has now viewed several video clips also showing abuse. Video clips that are on a computer system, short video clips, if you will. The officials saying there are some two dozen videos, some of them repetitive. But he describes them as, quote, "disturbing, showing humiliation, inappropriate behavior." This senior official says he did not see a video that showed any rape, but he said there was, quote, "clearly inappropriate behavior of a sexual nature." That from a senior defense official now who has viewed some of these videotapes from Iraq.

Now, the official also says the Pentagon today is trying to consider whether to release, perhaps, hundreds of additional photographs and any of these videotapes to the public.

So far, that decision has not been made. He said that would, of course, have some potential legal ramifications for any criminal case that the military might try and make against U.S. troops involved in this. But they are talking about it. They're trying to decide whether to do it.

In the meantime, they are making arrangements with Congress to allow Congress to view this material in a restricted atmosphere. The question also, of course, is one of a political nature -- whether it will be more damaging to the United States to continue to see this material leak out over the next several days and weeks.

As to the secretary's own fate, the president, of course, making a very strong public statement about his support and his desire to see Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld remain in the job.

However, this official saying that he would still point everyone to Secretary Rumsfeld's own remarks on Capitol Hill last week. The secretary saying that he, himself, will continue to evaluate his effectiveness in the job. This official saying his desire is to remain effective. He will always evaluate that.

Of course, this now putting down a marker that if the secretary of defense feels that this scandal will overtake his own ability to be effective in the job, he, himself, may rethink it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Barbara, right after this story broke, the secretary himself went to the White House and the White House let it leak out afterwards that the president was angry and let the secretary know that. This time you're not hearing that kind of leak. Was there any sense of the tone in this meeting?

STARR: the tone is that it was very professional. We are told that General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, was the primary briefer, that this discussed a number of current ongoing issues in Iraq, briefing by secure video from Baghdad.

Secretary Powell in the room, General Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the CIA director, George Tenet, was in the room. Interestingly enough, of course, the CIA has its own troubles in this area. There are a number, too, CIA inspector general investigations going on about potential detainee abuse by CIA officials in Iraq.

So, all of this remains ongoing. By all accounts, it was a very professional meeting. By all accounts, however, these photographs, these videos continuing to be very disturbing and there is no indication that it is over yet.

We should also remind everyone that Major General Antonio Tuguba, who wrote the initial report about the potential abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison, is scheduled to testify tomorrow morning on Capitol Hill.

O'BRIEN: That's one we won't want to miss here, undoubtedly. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you very much -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: He whistled at a white woman and ended up dead at the bottom of a river. The 1955 lynching of Emmett Till was a key turning point in the civil rights movement. The 14- year-old was dragged from his bed, beaten, shot and dumped in the Tallahachie River.

The two white men charged in the case were acquitted by an all- white jury. But this case was not going to be swept away and forgotten like so many other lynchings because Till's mother demanded an open-casket funeral to show the world how her son was brutalized.

Now nearly 50 years later the Justice Department is reopening this case. A film called "The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till" helped renew interest in this case.

Filmmaker Keith Beauchamp is in New York. And in Chicago, Chris Benson, the author of "Death of Innocence: The Story of a Hate Crime That Changed America." Gentlemen, great to see you both.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Keith, let's talk about your documentary. You identified witnesses. Tell me why you have been so committed to this case.

KEITH BEAUCHAMP, "THE UNTOLD STORY OF EMMETT LOUIS TILL": Oh, it started that age of 10. I came across a photo of Emmett Till in "jet" magazine and it shocked me tremendously. And my parents sat me down at that time and explained to me the story of Emmett Louis Till. Throughout my life, the case, the name kept resurfacing.

And, you know, later on in '96 I met with Mrs. Mobley, Emmett Till's mother, and basically she put me under her wing and encouraged me to go forward with this case. She always told me that there were more people possibly involve would the murder.

And that's what floored me, that's what inspired me to go forward with this case. It's a very important case in my life. I've spent nine years investigating this case.

PHILLIPS: How did you identify witnesses, Keith?

BEAUCHAMP: Well, I was in Mississippi for like four and a half years shooting the film and throughout that time I was meeting people, interviewing people, actually for research for a screenplay -- I was trying to do a movie first. And I realized actually the interviews that I was taking and getting was actually depositions. These people have never spoke out before. So I eventually met the cousins of Emmett Till when I was at the store that day, when Emmett wolf- whistled, as well as who was at the house the night of the abduction. So, it's just, you know, I've interviewed people who have never been investigated, and I felt that it needed to be done.

PHILLIPS: And, Chris, it's Emmett's mother who kept this case alive. She spent her entire life fighting for justice for her son. Let's talk about Mother Mobley and what a courageous woman she was.

CHRIS BENSON, "DEATH OF INNOCENCE": Oh, absolutely. As you mentioned in the setup, she was courageous to show the world the battered, brutalized body of what had been an adorable son. And you see pictures of him in the book of what an incredibly handsome kid he was. I mean, a mother would want the world to see her son that way. She had the courage to show the world what had become of her son, the horrible face of race hatred that was on her son's face.

And, I think, as you mentioned, there were something like 5,000 documented lynchings throughout the South in the years following Reconstruction. This is the one case where everyone remembered the name, and we owe that to Mother Mobley's courage.

PHILLIPS: And, Chris, Mother Mobley was against capital punishment, right?

BENSON: Absolutely. In fact, the last public event that she attended was a conference here in the Chicago area of victims' families against the death penalty. And she, at that event, called on then Governor Ryan to end capital punishment in the state of Illinois. And ironically, on the day of her funeral, January 11, 2002, she -- 2003, I'm sorry, she was funeralized on the same day that Governor Ryan cleared death row in Illinois, and he mentioned her by name.

PHILLIPS: Keith, all the time that you spent with Mother Mobley, did she ever have hate in her heart for these white men?

BEAUCHAMP: No, that was one of the amazing things about Emmett Till's mother. She never had a bit of hatred in her heart. She only wanted closure. She felt, just like in 1955, this was a catalyst for change that sparked the American civil rights movement. She felt that that same effect would happen even today. She never had a bit of hatred, and that's what made her so amazing and so inspirational, was that she just wanted to have closure. And you know, I'm just so happy to have known her.

You know, it's unfortunate that it's kind of bittersweet to me that she passed away last year. I wish that she could have waited, you know, but, you know, life must go on, and I'm just so happy that this is happening. It's just overwhelming to me.

BENSON: You have to think she's smiling right now, though, Keith.

PHILLIPS: No doubt she is. Well, there's a historical context here, too. Chris, we've talked about this, Brown versus Education. The talk of lynchings, unfortunately, still out there in the media. A case in Mississippi being brought up, being investigated right now, an alleged situation. What is this telling us? What's happening here, this movement and the fact that this is coming about right now?

BENSON: Well we've seen an interesting pattern. There's been a number of deaths of black men in Mississippi in the past few years, and the official ruling has always been suicide. And the suicides, if they are suicides, certainly have suspicious circumstances. There are a number of people, black people in Mississippi, who believe that there's been some foul play. And we've seen the same thing in the way that Emmett Till's murder was handled. It was not properly investigated. Mississippi authorities, we have seen -- and Keith certainly has seen this in his investigation.

There were Mississippi authorities who were it seems, part of the cover up of this horrible crime. There was a county sheriff, H.C. Strider (ph), who actually participated in the defense of the confessed killers of Emmett Till.

So you know, we have to see the recent cases against that backdrop, and many people are suspicious about what is really going on at this point. There certainly are lessons we can learn from history, and Mother Mobley would like us all to be vigilant in trying to find the answers, and she's, I'm sure, very happy that the investigation now is going to be opened into Emmett Till's killing, because I think one things that was so important to her was that we have answers to the unanswered questions. And she would encourage the families of the most recent victims to keep pursuing their cases, as she did, up until the day she died.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what, we will be vigilant in following this case. Keith Beauchamp, your documentary is incredible. This is happening, in large part, due to your efforts. Chris, your book, "Death of Innocence: A Story of a Hate Crime That Changed America." This is definitely a tremendous day for civil rights. I thank you both for spending it with me.

BEAUCHAMP: Thank you very much.

BENSON: And thank you, Kyra, for pursuing it.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Of course, everybody knows about "The Cat in the Hat." How about the cat in the box? Shipped by FedEx.

PHILLIPS: This is for real. The story of the FedEx feline is from Erin Cox, WTNH in Connecticut.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN COX, WTNH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Juliana (ph) is looking for her cats, 12 in all, each one rescued.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of them may not so fortunate to find homes for and they end up staying here.

COX: This cat tale begins with Juliana packing a box, returning furniture. The cats were curious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cats decided that would be a fun place to play, being cats. And they're jumping in and out of the box.

COX: She thought the box was feline free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut the box, looked around, saw Belle (ph), saw Squeak (ph) and sealed the box up.

COX: So FedEx takes the box from the front steps and with three black and white cats, it's 24 hours before Juliana realizes Pip (ph) is missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of a sudden, it just hit me. Oh, my God, he's in the box!

COX: A frantic call to FedEx.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I sealed my cat up in the box and he has been FedExed. I spent a very nervous day and said a lot of prayers.

COX: The box carrying the cat is traced to Indianapolis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Open the box and rescue Pip. Two days he was in the box. It was a big box, though.

COX (on camera): So once Pip is rescued from the box, FedEx can't just send it back. So the FedEx employee brings Pip to his Indianapolis home and then to a veterinarian so the cat has the right paper work to be put on a plane and flown to Providence, Rhode Island. Then Pip is picked up and driven back here to Ledger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's gotten around. He's been in more states than I have!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Wow. I'm speechless. I'm glad he made it.

You know what they say, when one door closes, another one opens.

PHILLIPS: Let's hope that's true for the famous sausage. Miles, remember these days.

O'BRIEN: How can I forget?

PHILLIPS: Making a life status change today. Oh, what was your famous line after that videotape?

O'BRIEN: Something about the bratwurst. But anyway, it was classy, that's all I can say. Let's take a break, back with more classy LIVE FROM IN A MOMENT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now to the Midwest where they're saying so long to the Sausage Lady in Milwaukee. She's hanging up the bun.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: She's hanging up the bun. She's retiring from the annual Sausage Race. You will remember Mandy Block, of course. How would you forget? She was inside that sausage suit when a player gave her the Sopranos treatment as she scurried by. Her assailant, first baseman Randall Simon apologized several times. He was suspended for three days. He was fined $432. Did you ever figure out why he was fined $432? I don't know.

PHILLIPS: No, actually, I didn't.

O'BRIEN: Mandy Block said she's going to study psychology at the University of Wisconsin -- possibly specializing in the odd behavior of overpaid athletes. No, no, that's not true. I made that up.

Once she graduates, though, she will be qualified to return as a tube steak. Elevate with the degree.

PHILLIPS: $432. Could have been the sausage average.

(LAUGHTER)

(MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up next hour in the second hour of LIVE FROM..., the political fallout. It's clear that the prison abuse story just will not go away. LIVE FROM...'s hour of power up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 10, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It is prom season. A time for high school seniors to rent a tux, buy a corsage and gather together as a class to celebrate their accomplishments -- together.
In a small town in southeastern Georgia, they're doing all of that except for the togetherness part. Eric Philips reports on a trio of proms divided along racial lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): April 24 was prom night for students at Toombs County High School in Lions, Georgia. So was May 7, and also May 8. One school, three proms. One predominantly African-American. The second, predominantly white. The last, catering to Hispanic students.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just the way it's always been here.

PHILIPS: Well, almost. For years, people in this rural town in southeast Georgia sponsored two private proms. One drawing a white crowd, the other, mostly black. This year, a third private prom was added for Hispanics. A move some believe to be both positive and negative.

YURI FLORES, JUNIOR TOOMBS COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL: I'm glad because we just have our own, and sad because it has to be this way. It can't be just one together.

PHILIPS: The spark to organize the Hispanic prom was ignited when high school junior Yuri Flores says a member of the committee sponsoring the predominantly white prom made a racist comment.

FLORES: "What part of 'white prom' don't you understand?"

PHILIPS: Prom committee member Ashley Rallins says she's not been able to identify anyone in the group who made that comment. But, she says, three promise is not a bad thing.

ASHLEY RALLINS, JUNIOR, TOOMBS CO. HIGH SCHOOL: It offers us more of an opportunity to experience different atmospheres. If we're all at three separate parties, we have the option to go to all three.

ANNA ROSA PEREZ, JUNIOR, TOOMBS, CO. HIGH SCHOOL: You don't feel right, you know, going somewhere where you don't feel wanted. You can tell when you don't feel wanted.

PHILIPS: The problem is one result of rapidly changing demographics and lines, as Mexican migrant workers harvesting bedelia (ph) onions and other crops are settling here and making it home.

Many believe there are two possible solutions. The first is to have one school-sponsored prom. But the principal says he's under no obligation by the school board to act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have a policy. And until they establish sufficient a policy, I will not get involved.

PHILIPS: Another way the situation could change is if the community came together and sponsored one prom. Students we spoke with say they'd like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's time they should be changed.

PHILIPS: But they say some parents would take issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got them certain people in school whose parents are, you know, racist, and it just wouldn't happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a hidden thing, and it's exposed in times like these.

PHILIPS: Times like these when one night, or in this case, three nights, will create memories that last a lifetime.

Eric Philips, CNN, Lions, Georgia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: President Bush took a trip to the Pentagon today. A show of support for his defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld. And at the photo opportunity said his defense secretary is doing a superb job. But what happened behind closed doors? For a little more on that, we turn it over to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Hello, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Miles. Again, we are now learning details of what the president discussed with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

A senior defense official tells us that Secretary Rumsfeld showed the president several pictures, color photographs of the abuse that has occurred, the alleged abuse that has occurred in Iraq. An official saying there was a significant number of photographs shown, that they were reflecting the general type of activity that has been seen.

Now, to carry a step further, this senior defense official tells reporters that he, himself has now viewed several video clips also showing abuse. Video clips that are on a computer system, short video clips, if you will. The officials saying there are some two dozen videos, some of them repetitive. But he describes them as, quote, "disturbing, showing humiliation, inappropriate behavior." This senior official says he did not see a video that showed any rape, but he said there was, quote, "clearly inappropriate behavior of a sexual nature." That from a senior defense official now who has viewed some of these videotapes from Iraq.

Now, the official also says the Pentagon today is trying to consider whether to release, perhaps, hundreds of additional photographs and any of these videotapes to the public.

So far, that decision has not been made. He said that would, of course, have some potential legal ramifications for any criminal case that the military might try and make against U.S. troops involved in this. But they are talking about it. They're trying to decide whether to do it.

In the meantime, they are making arrangements with Congress to allow Congress to view this material in a restricted atmosphere. The question also, of course, is one of a political nature -- whether it will be more damaging to the United States to continue to see this material leak out over the next several days and weeks.

As to the secretary's own fate, the president, of course, making a very strong public statement about his support and his desire to see Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld remain in the job.

However, this official saying that he would still point everyone to Secretary Rumsfeld's own remarks on Capitol Hill last week. The secretary saying that he, himself, will continue to evaluate his effectiveness in the job. This official saying his desire is to remain effective. He will always evaluate that.

Of course, this now putting down a marker that if the secretary of defense feels that this scandal will overtake his own ability to be effective in the job, he, himself, may rethink it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Barbara, right after this story broke, the secretary himself went to the White House and the White House let it leak out afterwards that the president was angry and let the secretary know that. This time you're not hearing that kind of leak. Was there any sense of the tone in this meeting?

STARR: the tone is that it was very professional. We are told that General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, was the primary briefer, that this discussed a number of current ongoing issues in Iraq, briefing by secure video from Baghdad.

Secretary Powell in the room, General Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the CIA director, George Tenet, was in the room. Interestingly enough, of course, the CIA has its own troubles in this area. There are a number, too, CIA inspector general investigations going on about potential detainee abuse by CIA officials in Iraq.

So, all of this remains ongoing. By all accounts, it was a very professional meeting. By all accounts, however, these photographs, these videos continuing to be very disturbing and there is no indication that it is over yet.

We should also remind everyone that Major General Antonio Tuguba, who wrote the initial report about the potential abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison, is scheduled to testify tomorrow morning on Capitol Hill.

O'BRIEN: That's one we won't want to miss here, undoubtedly. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you very much -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: He whistled at a white woman and ended up dead at the bottom of a river. The 1955 lynching of Emmett Till was a key turning point in the civil rights movement. The 14- year-old was dragged from his bed, beaten, shot and dumped in the Tallahachie River.

The two white men charged in the case were acquitted by an all- white jury. But this case was not going to be swept away and forgotten like so many other lynchings because Till's mother demanded an open-casket funeral to show the world how her son was brutalized.

Now nearly 50 years later the Justice Department is reopening this case. A film called "The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till" helped renew interest in this case.

Filmmaker Keith Beauchamp is in New York. And in Chicago, Chris Benson, the author of "Death of Innocence: The Story of a Hate Crime That Changed America." Gentlemen, great to see you both.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Keith, let's talk about your documentary. You identified witnesses. Tell me why you have been so committed to this case.

KEITH BEAUCHAMP, "THE UNTOLD STORY OF EMMETT LOUIS TILL": Oh, it started that age of 10. I came across a photo of Emmett Till in "jet" magazine and it shocked me tremendously. And my parents sat me down at that time and explained to me the story of Emmett Louis Till. Throughout my life, the case, the name kept resurfacing.

And, you know, later on in '96 I met with Mrs. Mobley, Emmett Till's mother, and basically she put me under her wing and encouraged me to go forward with this case. She always told me that there were more people possibly involve would the murder.

And that's what floored me, that's what inspired me to go forward with this case. It's a very important case in my life. I've spent nine years investigating this case.

PHILLIPS: How did you identify witnesses, Keith?

BEAUCHAMP: Well, I was in Mississippi for like four and a half years shooting the film and throughout that time I was meeting people, interviewing people, actually for research for a screenplay -- I was trying to do a movie first. And I realized actually the interviews that I was taking and getting was actually depositions. These people have never spoke out before. So I eventually met the cousins of Emmett Till when I was at the store that day, when Emmett wolf- whistled, as well as who was at the house the night of the abduction. So, it's just, you know, I've interviewed people who have never been investigated, and I felt that it needed to be done.

PHILLIPS: And, Chris, it's Emmett's mother who kept this case alive. She spent her entire life fighting for justice for her son. Let's talk about Mother Mobley and what a courageous woman she was.

CHRIS BENSON, "DEATH OF INNOCENCE": Oh, absolutely. As you mentioned in the setup, she was courageous to show the world the battered, brutalized body of what had been an adorable son. And you see pictures of him in the book of what an incredibly handsome kid he was. I mean, a mother would want the world to see her son that way. She had the courage to show the world what had become of her son, the horrible face of race hatred that was on her son's face.

And, I think, as you mentioned, there were something like 5,000 documented lynchings throughout the South in the years following Reconstruction. This is the one case where everyone remembered the name, and we owe that to Mother Mobley's courage.

PHILLIPS: And, Chris, Mother Mobley was against capital punishment, right?

BENSON: Absolutely. In fact, the last public event that she attended was a conference here in the Chicago area of victims' families against the death penalty. And she, at that event, called on then Governor Ryan to end capital punishment in the state of Illinois. And ironically, on the day of her funeral, January 11, 2002, she -- 2003, I'm sorry, she was funeralized on the same day that Governor Ryan cleared death row in Illinois, and he mentioned her by name.

PHILLIPS: Keith, all the time that you spent with Mother Mobley, did she ever have hate in her heart for these white men?

BEAUCHAMP: No, that was one of the amazing things about Emmett Till's mother. She never had a bit of hatred in her heart. She only wanted closure. She felt, just like in 1955, this was a catalyst for change that sparked the American civil rights movement. She felt that that same effect would happen even today. She never had a bit of hatred, and that's what made her so amazing and so inspirational, was that she just wanted to have closure. And you know, I'm just so happy to have known her.

You know, it's unfortunate that it's kind of bittersweet to me that she passed away last year. I wish that she could have waited, you know, but, you know, life must go on, and I'm just so happy that this is happening. It's just overwhelming to me.

BENSON: You have to think she's smiling right now, though, Keith.

PHILLIPS: No doubt she is. Well, there's a historical context here, too. Chris, we've talked about this, Brown versus Education. The talk of lynchings, unfortunately, still out there in the media. A case in Mississippi being brought up, being investigated right now, an alleged situation. What is this telling us? What's happening here, this movement and the fact that this is coming about right now?

BENSON: Well we've seen an interesting pattern. There's been a number of deaths of black men in Mississippi in the past few years, and the official ruling has always been suicide. And the suicides, if they are suicides, certainly have suspicious circumstances. There are a number of people, black people in Mississippi, who believe that there's been some foul play. And we've seen the same thing in the way that Emmett Till's murder was handled. It was not properly investigated. Mississippi authorities, we have seen -- and Keith certainly has seen this in his investigation.

There were Mississippi authorities who were it seems, part of the cover up of this horrible crime. There was a county sheriff, H.C. Strider (ph), who actually participated in the defense of the confessed killers of Emmett Till.

So you know, we have to see the recent cases against that backdrop, and many people are suspicious about what is really going on at this point. There certainly are lessons we can learn from history, and Mother Mobley would like us all to be vigilant in trying to find the answers, and she's, I'm sure, very happy that the investigation now is going to be opened into Emmett Till's killing, because I think one things that was so important to her was that we have answers to the unanswered questions. And she would encourage the families of the most recent victims to keep pursuing their cases, as she did, up until the day she died.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what, we will be vigilant in following this case. Keith Beauchamp, your documentary is incredible. This is happening, in large part, due to your efforts. Chris, your book, "Death of Innocence: A Story of a Hate Crime That Changed America." This is definitely a tremendous day for civil rights. I thank you both for spending it with me.

BEAUCHAMP: Thank you very much.

BENSON: And thank you, Kyra, for pursuing it.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Of course, everybody knows about "The Cat in the Hat." How about the cat in the box? Shipped by FedEx.

PHILLIPS: This is for real. The story of the FedEx feline is from Erin Cox, WTNH in Connecticut.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN COX, WTNH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Juliana (ph) is looking for her cats, 12 in all, each one rescued.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of them may not so fortunate to find homes for and they end up staying here.

COX: This cat tale begins with Juliana packing a box, returning furniture. The cats were curious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cats decided that would be a fun place to play, being cats. And they're jumping in and out of the box.

COX: She thought the box was feline free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut the box, looked around, saw Belle (ph), saw Squeak (ph) and sealed the box up.

COX: So FedEx takes the box from the front steps and with three black and white cats, it's 24 hours before Juliana realizes Pip (ph) is missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of a sudden, it just hit me. Oh, my God, he's in the box!

COX: A frantic call to FedEx.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I sealed my cat up in the box and he has been FedExed. I spent a very nervous day and said a lot of prayers.

COX: The box carrying the cat is traced to Indianapolis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Open the box and rescue Pip. Two days he was in the box. It was a big box, though.

COX (on camera): So once Pip is rescued from the box, FedEx can't just send it back. So the FedEx employee brings Pip to his Indianapolis home and then to a veterinarian so the cat has the right paper work to be put on a plane and flown to Providence, Rhode Island. Then Pip is picked up and driven back here to Ledger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's gotten around. He's been in more states than I have!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Wow. I'm speechless. I'm glad he made it.

You know what they say, when one door closes, another one opens.

PHILLIPS: Let's hope that's true for the famous sausage. Miles, remember these days.

O'BRIEN: How can I forget?

PHILLIPS: Making a life status change today. Oh, what was your famous line after that videotape?

O'BRIEN: Something about the bratwurst. But anyway, it was classy, that's all I can say. Let's take a break, back with more classy LIVE FROM IN A MOMENT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now to the Midwest where they're saying so long to the Sausage Lady in Milwaukee. She's hanging up the bun.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: She's hanging up the bun. She's retiring from the annual Sausage Race. You will remember Mandy Block, of course. How would you forget? She was inside that sausage suit when a player gave her the Sopranos treatment as she scurried by. Her assailant, first baseman Randall Simon apologized several times. He was suspended for three days. He was fined $432. Did you ever figure out why he was fined $432? I don't know.

PHILLIPS: No, actually, I didn't.

O'BRIEN: Mandy Block said she's going to study psychology at the University of Wisconsin -- possibly specializing in the odd behavior of overpaid athletes. No, no, that's not true. I made that up.

Once she graduates, though, she will be qualified to return as a tube steak. Elevate with the degree.

PHILLIPS: $432. Could have been the sausage average.

(LAUGHTER)

(MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up next hour in the second hour of LIVE FROM..., the political fallout. It's clear that the prison abuse story just will not go away. LIVE FROM...'s hour of power up next.

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