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Live From...
Rumsfeld, Myers in Iraq; CIA Claims Berg Killer on Tape is Zarqawi
Aired May 13, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We wanted to have a chance to look you folks in the eye and tell you how proud we are and what a wonderful job you folks are doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Surprise salute. Donald Rumsfeld goes to Iraq, meets the troops at Camp Victory and goes inside the prison that's shaking up the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want them to be tired, I want them to be afraid of me. I want them -- when they breathe, I want them to think that the interrogator gave them the right to expand their lungs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Inside interrogations. Military trainers show CNN just how far they can go to get a prisoner to talk.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Maria Hinojosa in West Chester, Pennsylvania, where after three days of silence and seclusion, Nick Berg's father comes out to talk about his son. We'll tell you what he had to say when LIVE FROM... continues.
PHILLIPS: Kansas twister caught on tape, people on the ground cleaning the mess up today.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, hello, everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off today. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
Up first this hour, al-Zarqawi in action? The CIA now says the hooded figure seen beheading Nicholas Berg in that grainy Internet video, probably was the well known terror instigator, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, that's not a unanimous conclusion. CNN's David Ensor weighs in on the state of that investigation -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, CIA officials say that having done a technical analysis of that tape, looking closely at it, listening to it, and comparing the tape with others, they now believe most likely that is the voice of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the well-known terrorist, head of a group that's been terrorizing Westerners in Iraq for some time now, wanted in more than a score of incidents and wanted in the murder of an American diplomat in Amman, Jordan.
On the tape, as you know, you not only see five hooded figures, one of them reading a statement behind Nick Berg, but you then subsequently see, and we have not shown this on our air, that same person, the person who reads the statement, pulling out a knife and killing Nick Berg by cutting his head off.
These officials are now saying they believe that individual, the individual who speaks and conducts this grisly murder is, in fact, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Most likely, it's not 100 percent, but they do believe that they're right about this.
Now this would be the second example of a top terrorist taking pleasure or seeing propaganda advantage in actually beheading an American on tape, because officials are saying also that they are confident -- they are sure that the individual who beheaded "Wall Street Journal" reporter Danny Pearl in Pakistan was, in fact, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the top al Qaeda mastermind, the man is believed to have organized the attacks of 9/11.
So you have Abu Zarqawi, this leader of an al Qaeda-affiliated group, in effect, doing the same thing. Two beheadings by top terrorists of Americans. They're doing it themselves -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: David Ensor, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Now violence and VIPs in Iraq. The former came in the form of rocket propelled grenades fired against coalition patrol in the Shiite holy city of Najaf. An hour later, three members of the so-called Mehdi militia were dead. And a Shiite proposal to end the month-long standoff between a firebrand cleric and U.S. officials was less certain than ever.
In nearby Karbala today, Polish troops found weapons, ammo, and electronic equipment in the mosque that was ground zero yesterday for battles that killed more than 20 of Muqtada al-Sadr's supporter.
Then came the VIPs. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers on a surprise trip not just to Baghdad, but to Abu Ghraib Prison, the scene of some alleged crimes by some U.S. soldiers. The scandal couldn't be ignored, even at a raucous rally at a venue dubbed Camp Victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: It's important for each of you to know that that is not the values of American. It's not your values. And I know that and you know that and your families know that. And we're proud of you, each of you. We're proud of your service. We know each of you is here because you volunteer to serve your country. You said that that is important to you. And it's important to our country that we have the freedom that we all enjoy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's Karl Penhaul picks up the story from Baghdad -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, POOL REPORTER: Hi, Kyra. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld arrived here in Baghdad about 1:00 p.m. local time, early afternoon. And then he went on for talks with General Sanchez, the commander of U.S. forces here in Iraq. He also talked to General Geoffrey Miller, that's the general who is now in charge of Iraq's prison facilities.
Now Donald Rumsfeld did actually go to the notorious Abu Ghraib Prison on the outskirts of Baghdad. He spent about 30 minutes there, touring that facility, and also meeting the 500 or 600 or so U.S. troops that guard the facility itself and the surrounding areas.
From there, it was back to the center of Baghdad, to the area around Baghdad Airport, to Camp Victory. And there he had a very rousing meeting with a group of soldiers there. Several messages coming out there. He was telling the troops, though, that he was very proud of them and he felt that people back at home in the United States were also very proud of them.
Also gave his opinion that he believed that the prison abuse scandal was the work of a few, not a systematic incident, and he did promise that he would work hard to fully investigate those cases -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Karl Penhaul, from Baghdad, thank you. Let's get more now on the mission and the purpose from CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you, Kyra. Now Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers, clearly going to Baghdad to conduct substantive business, to talk to leaders about the progress in the investigation, but also to show the flag to the troops, give them a pat on the back, tell them they're doing a good job and boost their morale.
At Abu Ghraib Prison, the secretary toured the facility, had a look around, looked at some of the fence line, some of the prisoner facilities, before he went then and talked to several hundred troops there, and gave them this word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: The people who engaged in abuses will be brought to justice. The world will see how a free system, a democratic system, functions and operates, transparently, with no cover-ups, with the world seeing the fact that we're not perfect, and goodness knows, we're not perfect. But don't let anyone tell you that America is what's wrong with this world, because it's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now what the secretary's dealing with there of course is this very clear-cut case of criminal abuse. But back in Washington, the deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, and the deputy chairman of the joint chiefs, General Peter Pace, were on Capitol Hill. And General Pace had a very interesting exchange with Senator Jack Reed about the ongoing rules of interrogation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: General Pace, if you were shown a video of a United States Marine or an American citizen in the control of a foreign power in a cell block, naked, with a bag over their head, squatting with their arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that as a good interrogation technique or violation of the Geneva Convention?
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHMN.: I would describe it as a violation, sir.
REED: As I read General Sanchez's guidance -- well, let me ask another question. Would your conclusion be different if it was ordered by a higher ranking officer of that foreign power?
PACE: No, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now, let's be clear, what Senator Reed is trying to get to is the question of interrogation techniques, about whether or not which interrogation techniques, if you will, are legal under the Geneva Conventions. This is now becoming a focus of some of the congressional inquiry, as well as some of the investigations, Kyra, going on by the U.S. Army. Exactly what interrogation techniques are approved, who approved them, and whether or not they precisely do fall within the tenets of the Geneva Conventions -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM... the Pentagon, thank you.
Rumsfeld says that his fifth trip to Iraq is, in his words, the right thing to do. But he and Myers are making no secret of their happiness at being anywhere outside of the D.C. Beltway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHMN: I think I can speak for the secretary to say how happy we are to be here. We are really happy to be here. I mean, we are really, really happy to be here. And I'm not going to go in that any more, but...
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst David Grange joins me now with some thoughts on the battles that you can't win with force but you can definitely survive with helmets. OK. I saw you laugh there, too. You think they really, really are happy to be there?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They're really happy, yes.
PHILLIPS: Do the troops need to hear from these two men, General?
GRANGE: Absolutely. At a time like this, all GIs feel some responsibility, even for the few soldiers that did some of these acts. You have a feeling of responsibility. You wear the same uniform. You're part of the same military. You work for the same country. And so, yes, they feel bad about it. And so to have the senior leadership come there is a boost for them.
PHILLIPS: You hear all this criticism about Donald Rumsfeld and certain individuals calling for his resignation. I'm very interested to know how you feel. Do you think he is at fault? Does he have some fault, all of the fault, no fault?
GRANGE: Well, you know, all leaders are responsible for everything a unit does and people do that's done well, or not so good, under their command. I mean, you can take it all the way up to the president. You can take it up to a CEO of a private enterprise.
But you can't -- it's pretty hard to control the actions of every individual all the way through that, thousands of people. I commanded 15,000 troops myself. I must admit to you, I did not know what every one of those 15,000 troops did every minute of the day.
But you do have some responsibility. You have policy responsibility, if nothing else. I think that he's not directly responsible in this case. However, I do think there are some senior leaders responsible, though, in the chain of command.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the pictures that came out of Abu Ghraib. A lot of criticism pointed toward journalists, that the exploitation of those pictures triggered the beheading of Nick Berg. I'm curious to know, do you agree with that?
GRANGE: I think that Mr. Berg would have been beheaded anyway because he's an American, and because of what happened to Pearl and what others will try to do in the future. However, this didn't help, but it didn't cause the beheading. I do disagree with that part.
But the one thing is once the pictures are released to the American people and elsewhere, in the media throughout the world -- but at least in our country, don't do it day after day. I think it's saturated right now. It's a bit too much. There are some other terrible things going on in the world that are sensational that the media market can capture.
Take Sudan, for example, what's going on there, against humanity. Take just some of the other things that are happening in the Middle East. So it has probably been run into the ground a little bit too much right now.
PHILLIPS: At the same time, talk about running it into the ground, there are a lot of great things going on overseas, a lot of criticism there, that the media overshadowing the attempts to rebuild Fallujah and other parts of Iraq. What have you heard from the men and women overseas with regard to the rebuilding process? And are you still inspired by the good things that are taking place in Iraq? GRANGE: Oh, absolutely, I am inspired. I do get information from soldiers that I've served with in the past. There's some great things going on. But it's pretty hard to rush in and get coverage of a school house or a neighborhood where things are going well.
Usually, you rush to the explosions, you rush to the death, you rush to the fires. If the traffic on an interstate highway here in the United States has no accidents, is anybody going to film it? No. If it's a big car pileup, it will be filmed, it will be -- pictures will be taken.
So the media is a marketplace and people are going to rush to things that are sensational. The trouble is and one of the biggest morale problems of our troops in Iraq is all of these great things aren't being captured. It's hard for the media to do it. But I think in some way there has to be a better effort to do that.
PHILLIPS: Well, General, you and I are definitely talking about them. I'll look to you for more story ideas. General David Grange, thank you.
Well, a parallel prison abuse scandal has rocked the U.K., complete with pictures. But officials there don't buy it. Britain's minister of armed forces today declared that photos apparently depicting mistreatment of Iraqis by British forces were, quote, "categorically not taken in Iraq." He didn't claim flatly that the photos were faked, and he didn't rule out the possibility of misconduct. But he did call for the newspaper that published the photos to cooperate with government investigators.
Straight ahead, anger mixed with grief. The family of an American civilian beheaded by terrorists challenges the official story on what happened to Michael Berg -- or rather, Nick Berg. We'll have a live report.
And will Donald Rumsfeld's visit to an infamous prison help win the hearts and minds of Iraqis? We're going to talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, Nick Berg's hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania, is still trying to come to grips with his brutal killing. CNN's Maria Hinojosa joins us live with more on that -- Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, today, a very emotional day for the family. But Michael Berg, Nick Berg's, father finally breaking his silence, emerging from his home early this morning to speak to reporters, talking about his son, what kind of person he was. He said his son only saw the good in people. In fact, he said, his son probably only saw the good in his captors until the very end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BERG, NICK BERG'S FATHER: The al Qaeda that killed my son didn't know what they were doing. They killed their best friend. Nick was there to build Iraq, not to tear it down. He was there to help people, not to hurt anyone. My son quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to take us to Dover Air Force Base, ironically, and teach him to fire a handgun and he wouldn't do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was part of his vision, part of something inside of him said that he wanted to be there, be a part of the process, to rebuild, and his idea was to go there and to teach other people how to build towers, and how to get them running again and he wanted to be a part of the process.
HINOJOSA: Now, more information -- that was one of Nick's friends, actually, speak on "Good Morning America," talking about why Nick Berg would have gone to Iraq. A lot of questions about why a 26- year-old man would leave a gorgeous home like this and just decide that he wanted to take off and go and be in Iraq alone, without any guide, without a translator. His friends believing it was because Nick really felt that he had a mission to do, to help rebuild.
Now, information coming out of Baghdad, Kyra. We have -- CNN has located some of the friends that Nick spoke to soon after he was released. These friends saying that Nick's said to him that he was captured by Mosul police and then transferred to U.S. authorities where he was held in coalition detention center, where there were other men from other international backgrounds being held. They last heard from him on April 9 when they believed that Nick was trying to get out of the country, perhaps by plane.
Now just to give you a sense of what's happening here in West Chester, Pennsylvania, these have been very difficult days for the Berg family. Right now, you have about a block-and-a-half of live trucks, satellite trucks, reporters, SUVs, who have essentially been camped out here for the past three days. This has made it very difficult for the family being which is preparing for a memorial service that will be held tomorrow. It will be private, only for close friends and family -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Maria Hinojosa, thank you.
Police in Garland, Texas, say about three dozen people hit the information superhighway before hitting the streets for a gang fight. This fight happened back in March. Police say 34 people, including 27 high school students, organized it on the Internet and then videotaped it. Thirty-three of them have been arrested. Police think the other person fled to Mexico.
Other news across America now. In Fargo, North Dakota, a federal grand jury has charged Alfonso Rodriguez Jr. with kidnapping and killing Dru Sjodin. Sjodin's body was found last month. She had been missing since November. If convicted, Rodriguez could get the death penalty.
In Fresno, California, murder or murder/suicide? Marcus Wesson is accused of killing nine of his children, but his lawyers say evidence points to his oldest daughter killing eight of the kids before killing herself. They filed a motion to dismiss the murder charges against Wesson. In Tennessee, a global tug-of-war over a 5-year-old Chinese girl may be over. An American couple has won custody of the girl, apparently ending a battle with the child's biological parents. The judge in the case says the girl's biological parents are in the U.S. illegally and have used the custody fight to avoid deportation. The biological family had argued that they thought their daughter was in temporary foster care. They say they put her there because of money and legal problems. The father calls the ruling a travesty of justice and vows to appeal.
Frightening sight in the Kansas sky. Imagine looking out your window and spotting this, a big twister touchdown in the heartland.
And "Idol" shocker. Voters rain on Latoya London's parade. We've got the inside scoop, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 13, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We wanted to have a chance to look you folks in the eye and tell you how proud we are and what a wonderful job you folks are doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Surprise salute. Donald Rumsfeld goes to Iraq, meets the troops at Camp Victory and goes inside the prison that's shaking up the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want them to be tired, I want them to be afraid of me. I want them -- when they breathe, I want them to think that the interrogator gave them the right to expand their lungs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Inside interrogations. Military trainers show CNN just how far they can go to get a prisoner to talk.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Maria Hinojosa in West Chester, Pennsylvania, where after three days of silence and seclusion, Nick Berg's father comes out to talk about his son. We'll tell you what he had to say when LIVE FROM... continues.
PHILLIPS: Kansas twister caught on tape, people on the ground cleaning the mess up today.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, hello, everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off today. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
Up first this hour, al-Zarqawi in action? The CIA now says the hooded figure seen beheading Nicholas Berg in that grainy Internet video, probably was the well known terror instigator, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, that's not a unanimous conclusion. CNN's David Ensor weighs in on the state of that investigation -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, CIA officials say that having done a technical analysis of that tape, looking closely at it, listening to it, and comparing the tape with others, they now believe most likely that is the voice of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the well-known terrorist, head of a group that's been terrorizing Westerners in Iraq for some time now, wanted in more than a score of incidents and wanted in the murder of an American diplomat in Amman, Jordan.
On the tape, as you know, you not only see five hooded figures, one of them reading a statement behind Nick Berg, but you then subsequently see, and we have not shown this on our air, that same person, the person who reads the statement, pulling out a knife and killing Nick Berg by cutting his head off.
These officials are now saying they believe that individual, the individual who speaks and conducts this grisly murder is, in fact, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Most likely, it's not 100 percent, but they do believe that they're right about this.
Now this would be the second example of a top terrorist taking pleasure or seeing propaganda advantage in actually beheading an American on tape, because officials are saying also that they are confident -- they are sure that the individual who beheaded "Wall Street Journal" reporter Danny Pearl in Pakistan was, in fact, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the top al Qaeda mastermind, the man is believed to have organized the attacks of 9/11.
So you have Abu Zarqawi, this leader of an al Qaeda-affiliated group, in effect, doing the same thing. Two beheadings by top terrorists of Americans. They're doing it themselves -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: David Ensor, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Now violence and VIPs in Iraq. The former came in the form of rocket propelled grenades fired against coalition patrol in the Shiite holy city of Najaf. An hour later, three members of the so-called Mehdi militia were dead. And a Shiite proposal to end the month-long standoff between a firebrand cleric and U.S. officials was less certain than ever.
In nearby Karbala today, Polish troops found weapons, ammo, and electronic equipment in the mosque that was ground zero yesterday for battles that killed more than 20 of Muqtada al-Sadr's supporter.
Then came the VIPs. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers on a surprise trip not just to Baghdad, but to Abu Ghraib Prison, the scene of some alleged crimes by some U.S. soldiers. The scandal couldn't be ignored, even at a raucous rally at a venue dubbed Camp Victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: It's important for each of you to know that that is not the values of American. It's not your values. And I know that and you know that and your families know that. And we're proud of you, each of you. We're proud of your service. We know each of you is here because you volunteer to serve your country. You said that that is important to you. And it's important to our country that we have the freedom that we all enjoy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's Karl Penhaul picks up the story from Baghdad -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, POOL REPORTER: Hi, Kyra. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld arrived here in Baghdad about 1:00 p.m. local time, early afternoon. And then he went on for talks with General Sanchez, the commander of U.S. forces here in Iraq. He also talked to General Geoffrey Miller, that's the general who is now in charge of Iraq's prison facilities.
Now Donald Rumsfeld did actually go to the notorious Abu Ghraib Prison on the outskirts of Baghdad. He spent about 30 minutes there, touring that facility, and also meeting the 500 or 600 or so U.S. troops that guard the facility itself and the surrounding areas.
From there, it was back to the center of Baghdad, to the area around Baghdad Airport, to Camp Victory. And there he had a very rousing meeting with a group of soldiers there. Several messages coming out there. He was telling the troops, though, that he was very proud of them and he felt that people back at home in the United States were also very proud of them.
Also gave his opinion that he believed that the prison abuse scandal was the work of a few, not a systematic incident, and he did promise that he would work hard to fully investigate those cases -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Karl Penhaul, from Baghdad, thank you. Let's get more now on the mission and the purpose from CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you, Kyra. Now Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers, clearly going to Baghdad to conduct substantive business, to talk to leaders about the progress in the investigation, but also to show the flag to the troops, give them a pat on the back, tell them they're doing a good job and boost their morale.
At Abu Ghraib Prison, the secretary toured the facility, had a look around, looked at some of the fence line, some of the prisoner facilities, before he went then and talked to several hundred troops there, and gave them this word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: The people who engaged in abuses will be brought to justice. The world will see how a free system, a democratic system, functions and operates, transparently, with no cover-ups, with the world seeing the fact that we're not perfect, and goodness knows, we're not perfect. But don't let anyone tell you that America is what's wrong with this world, because it's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now what the secretary's dealing with there of course is this very clear-cut case of criminal abuse. But back in Washington, the deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, and the deputy chairman of the joint chiefs, General Peter Pace, were on Capitol Hill. And General Pace had a very interesting exchange with Senator Jack Reed about the ongoing rules of interrogation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: General Pace, if you were shown a video of a United States Marine or an American citizen in the control of a foreign power in a cell block, naked, with a bag over their head, squatting with their arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that as a good interrogation technique or violation of the Geneva Convention?
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHMN.: I would describe it as a violation, sir.
REED: As I read General Sanchez's guidance -- well, let me ask another question. Would your conclusion be different if it was ordered by a higher ranking officer of that foreign power?
PACE: No, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now, let's be clear, what Senator Reed is trying to get to is the question of interrogation techniques, about whether or not which interrogation techniques, if you will, are legal under the Geneva Conventions. This is now becoming a focus of some of the congressional inquiry, as well as some of the investigations, Kyra, going on by the U.S. Army. Exactly what interrogation techniques are approved, who approved them, and whether or not they precisely do fall within the tenets of the Geneva Conventions -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM... the Pentagon, thank you.
Rumsfeld says that his fifth trip to Iraq is, in his words, the right thing to do. But he and Myers are making no secret of their happiness at being anywhere outside of the D.C. Beltway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHMN: I think I can speak for the secretary to say how happy we are to be here. We are really happy to be here. I mean, we are really, really happy to be here. And I'm not going to go in that any more, but...
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst David Grange joins me now with some thoughts on the battles that you can't win with force but you can definitely survive with helmets. OK. I saw you laugh there, too. You think they really, really are happy to be there?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They're really happy, yes.
PHILLIPS: Do the troops need to hear from these two men, General?
GRANGE: Absolutely. At a time like this, all GIs feel some responsibility, even for the few soldiers that did some of these acts. You have a feeling of responsibility. You wear the same uniform. You're part of the same military. You work for the same country. And so, yes, they feel bad about it. And so to have the senior leadership come there is a boost for them.
PHILLIPS: You hear all this criticism about Donald Rumsfeld and certain individuals calling for his resignation. I'm very interested to know how you feel. Do you think he is at fault? Does he have some fault, all of the fault, no fault?
GRANGE: Well, you know, all leaders are responsible for everything a unit does and people do that's done well, or not so good, under their command. I mean, you can take it all the way up to the president. You can take it up to a CEO of a private enterprise.
But you can't -- it's pretty hard to control the actions of every individual all the way through that, thousands of people. I commanded 15,000 troops myself. I must admit to you, I did not know what every one of those 15,000 troops did every minute of the day.
But you do have some responsibility. You have policy responsibility, if nothing else. I think that he's not directly responsible in this case. However, I do think there are some senior leaders responsible, though, in the chain of command.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the pictures that came out of Abu Ghraib. A lot of criticism pointed toward journalists, that the exploitation of those pictures triggered the beheading of Nick Berg. I'm curious to know, do you agree with that?
GRANGE: I think that Mr. Berg would have been beheaded anyway because he's an American, and because of what happened to Pearl and what others will try to do in the future. However, this didn't help, but it didn't cause the beheading. I do disagree with that part.
But the one thing is once the pictures are released to the American people and elsewhere, in the media throughout the world -- but at least in our country, don't do it day after day. I think it's saturated right now. It's a bit too much. There are some other terrible things going on in the world that are sensational that the media market can capture.
Take Sudan, for example, what's going on there, against humanity. Take just some of the other things that are happening in the Middle East. So it has probably been run into the ground a little bit too much right now.
PHILLIPS: At the same time, talk about running it into the ground, there are a lot of great things going on overseas, a lot of criticism there, that the media overshadowing the attempts to rebuild Fallujah and other parts of Iraq. What have you heard from the men and women overseas with regard to the rebuilding process? And are you still inspired by the good things that are taking place in Iraq? GRANGE: Oh, absolutely, I am inspired. I do get information from soldiers that I've served with in the past. There's some great things going on. But it's pretty hard to rush in and get coverage of a school house or a neighborhood where things are going well.
Usually, you rush to the explosions, you rush to the death, you rush to the fires. If the traffic on an interstate highway here in the United States has no accidents, is anybody going to film it? No. If it's a big car pileup, it will be filmed, it will be -- pictures will be taken.
So the media is a marketplace and people are going to rush to things that are sensational. The trouble is and one of the biggest morale problems of our troops in Iraq is all of these great things aren't being captured. It's hard for the media to do it. But I think in some way there has to be a better effort to do that.
PHILLIPS: Well, General, you and I are definitely talking about them. I'll look to you for more story ideas. General David Grange, thank you.
Well, a parallel prison abuse scandal has rocked the U.K., complete with pictures. But officials there don't buy it. Britain's minister of armed forces today declared that photos apparently depicting mistreatment of Iraqis by British forces were, quote, "categorically not taken in Iraq." He didn't claim flatly that the photos were faked, and he didn't rule out the possibility of misconduct. But he did call for the newspaper that published the photos to cooperate with government investigators.
Straight ahead, anger mixed with grief. The family of an American civilian beheaded by terrorists challenges the official story on what happened to Michael Berg -- or rather, Nick Berg. We'll have a live report.
And will Donald Rumsfeld's visit to an infamous prison help win the hearts and minds of Iraqis? We're going to talk about it.
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PHILLIPS: Well, Nick Berg's hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania, is still trying to come to grips with his brutal killing. CNN's Maria Hinojosa joins us live with more on that -- Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, today, a very emotional day for the family. But Michael Berg, Nick Berg's, father finally breaking his silence, emerging from his home early this morning to speak to reporters, talking about his son, what kind of person he was. He said his son only saw the good in people. In fact, he said, his son probably only saw the good in his captors until the very end.
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MICHAEL BERG, NICK BERG'S FATHER: The al Qaeda that killed my son didn't know what they were doing. They killed their best friend. Nick was there to build Iraq, not to tear it down. He was there to help people, not to hurt anyone. My son quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to take us to Dover Air Force Base, ironically, and teach him to fire a handgun and he wouldn't do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was part of his vision, part of something inside of him said that he wanted to be there, be a part of the process, to rebuild, and his idea was to go there and to teach other people how to build towers, and how to get them running again and he wanted to be a part of the process.
HINOJOSA: Now, more information -- that was one of Nick's friends, actually, speak on "Good Morning America," talking about why Nick Berg would have gone to Iraq. A lot of questions about why a 26- year-old man would leave a gorgeous home like this and just decide that he wanted to take off and go and be in Iraq alone, without any guide, without a translator. His friends believing it was because Nick really felt that he had a mission to do, to help rebuild.
Now, information coming out of Baghdad, Kyra. We have -- CNN has located some of the friends that Nick spoke to soon after he was released. These friends saying that Nick's said to him that he was captured by Mosul police and then transferred to U.S. authorities where he was held in coalition detention center, where there were other men from other international backgrounds being held. They last heard from him on April 9 when they believed that Nick was trying to get out of the country, perhaps by plane.
Now just to give you a sense of what's happening here in West Chester, Pennsylvania, these have been very difficult days for the Berg family. Right now, you have about a block-and-a-half of live trucks, satellite trucks, reporters, SUVs, who have essentially been camped out here for the past three days. This has made it very difficult for the family being which is preparing for a memorial service that will be held tomorrow. It will be private, only for close friends and family -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Maria Hinojosa, thank you.
Police in Garland, Texas, say about three dozen people hit the information superhighway before hitting the streets for a gang fight. This fight happened back in March. Police say 34 people, including 27 high school students, organized it on the Internet and then videotaped it. Thirty-three of them have been arrested. Police think the other person fled to Mexico.
Other news across America now. In Fargo, North Dakota, a federal grand jury has charged Alfonso Rodriguez Jr. with kidnapping and killing Dru Sjodin. Sjodin's body was found last month. She had been missing since November. If convicted, Rodriguez could get the death penalty.
In Fresno, California, murder or murder/suicide? Marcus Wesson is accused of killing nine of his children, but his lawyers say evidence points to his oldest daughter killing eight of the kids before killing herself. They filed a motion to dismiss the murder charges against Wesson. In Tennessee, a global tug-of-war over a 5-year-old Chinese girl may be over. An American couple has won custody of the girl, apparently ending a battle with the child's biological parents. The judge in the case says the girl's biological parents are in the U.S. illegally and have used the custody fight to avoid deportation. The biological family had argued that they thought their daughter was in temporary foster care. They say they put her there because of money and legal problems. The father calls the ruling a travesty of justice and vows to appeal.
Frightening sight in the Kansas sky. Imagine looking out your window and spotting this, a big twister touchdown in the heartland.
And "Idol" shocker. Voters rain on Latoya London's parade. We've got the inside scoop, straight ahead.
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