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Staff Sgt. Mejia Convicted of Desertion; Spain Withdraws Remaining Troops From Iraq Today

Aired May 21, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The headlines at this hour.
Within the hour, a military jury at Fort Stewart, Georgia, convicted Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia of desertion. The Florida National Guardsman abandoned his combat unit to protest the war in Iraq. Mejia faces up to a year in jail and a bad conduct discharge. He'll be sentenced this afternoon.

Complete withdrawal. Spain withdrew the last of its remaining troops from Iraq today. Soldiers crossed the border into Kuwait. They're filling a campaign pledge made by the Spanish prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez, to bring the troops home.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: In Spain, Spanish authorities say a fingerprint found during their Madrid bombing probe belongs to an Algerian man, not an Oregon attorney.

CNN's Kimberly Osias join us now with details on today's sudden and surprising release of Brandon Mayfield.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Drew.

According to family member, 37-year-old Brandon Mayfield will remain here in his Oregon home resting today with his wife and his three children. This, after being held by federal authorities for the past two weeks.

Now, just a little while ago, I spoke with Kent Mayfield -- that is Brandon's brother, who tells me he was reunited with him for the first time yesterday, and he said that Brandon's state of mind right now is a little bit tenuous.

I mean, basically, he said he is really not at all happy with the handling of the situation, but, because of the gag order that is in place, he really doesn't want to compromise the legal situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENT MAYFIELD, BROTHER OF FORMER DETAINEE: I think there's going to be a major review about why they detained him. This obviously proves that this was a complete witch hunt, and we are going to follow up as much as I can.

(END VIDEO CLIP) OSIAS: Mayfield was being held as a material witness in connection with the March Madrid train bombings, the worst act of terrorism in any country since the 9/11 attacks. U.S. authorities still believe a fingerprint found on a plastic bag near the Madrid train station was that of Mayfield's.

Spanish authorities dispute those findings, telling CNN, in fact, there was never enough evidence for a print match. They say the prints do match those of an Algerian national, Ouhnane Daoud.

Mayfield spoke to press for the first time since his incarceration just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON MAYFIELD, FORMER DETAINEE: I thank God, everybody who was praying for me when I was in the Multnomah County Detention Center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: I did speak with the FBI officials here in Portland, and they said they cannot comment because, of course, there is grand jury proceedings that are continuing. There is also a gag order that is in place that I mentioned earlier.

Now, while Mayfield is no longer being held in detention, he is still considered, however, a material witness, and we are told by government sources that Mayfield is also, still, under surveillance -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: Kimberly, thank you. Live from Oregon.

We move to news across America now. He spent three decades behind bars, several years on death row for a murder he insists he did not commit. Well, now a Boston judge has set him free. The judge threw out the murder conviction against Laurence Adams after documents surfaced casting doubt on his guilt. Specifically, they include a statement from a key witness who says two other people committed the crime. Prosecutors will decide next month whether to retry Adams.

Former NBA star Jayson Williams will return to a New Jersey courtroom just 90 minutes from now. Prosecutors are expected to announce whether they will retry him on charges of reckless manslaughter in connection with the 2002 shooting death of a limousine driver.

And same-sex couples looking to tie the knot legally might not want to be traveling to Massachusetts. Governor Mitt Romney is ordering local governments in Massachusetts to follow the law there, which forbids out-of-state couples from getting married in the Bay State -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, you've seen the heart-tugging pictures this week of a toddler girl seemingly abandoned by her father in Baltimore. But now there may a strange but happy ending to the story of little Courtney.

Roosevelt Leftwich of CNN affiliate WMAR in Baltimore has details for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROOSEVELT LEFTWICH, WMAR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The family is optimistic that their prayers will finally be answered. It's been 18 months since they've seen Akasha Persons, but the child's grandfather says when he saw a picture on TV of the child that was abandoned here in Baltimore, he knew it was her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very lucky. I want to thank you guys for doing everything you did putting her picture up. Appreciate it very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much did that help, do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It made all the difference in the world because that's when I totally became convinced that it was her, when I saw the picture.

LEFTWICH: The story started in December of 2002. The woman in the gray shirt, 21-year-old Patricia Harper, was in a custody battle with Akasha's father, 37-year-old Robert Persons. Persons was awarded temporary custody of Akasha. A week later, Harper was given permanent custody of the child, but Persons took Akasha and then disappeared.

Last Friday, a child calling herself Courtney from Brooklyn, New York, is turned over to social services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dropped the child off with a complete stranger, went out trying to buy drugs, apparently got arrested, and the child was turned into the Department of Social Services, the child thinking that her name is Courtney, and what she said was, "My name is Courtney, and I am from Brooklyn," but what she meant was Brooklyn Avenue in Baltimore city.

LEFTWICH: Social services began a nationwide search concentrating in the New York area, but, when Akasha's pictures were shown on TV, that's when her grandfather from Laurel saw her. The family came up Thursday with documents, including a court order awarding the child to Patricia Harper. Social services is investigating the family's claim, but the attorneys say the family is hopeful that Akasha will come home soon.

(on camera): She's actually from Prince George's County. Her name happens to be Akasha. She's got a beautiful mom that she hasn't seen in two years, and she's going to find out that her mother loves her very much. The father apparently told Courtney that her mother didn't want anything to do with her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. All's well that end well. That was Roosevelt Leftwich of our Baltimore affiliate WMAR. He strikes fear into the hearts of recruits when the sun is up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMANDO FIGUEROA, STAFF SERGEANT: My weapon is down. Snap. Now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: But when the sun goes down, it's boot camp at home. It's a whole different story. We'll explain.

But, first, how much is too much? Soldiers inflicting torture to get what they want. Where should they draw the line? The debate is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: The photos keep coming, and details keep emerging about Iraqi prisoner abuse. Earlier this hour, we showed you the latest pictures and disturbing video published by "The Washington Post." The question is: Can anything we've seen in these pictures and videos legally condoned under the Geneva Conventions?

Joining us now from Washington, David Cole of the Georgetown Law Center and Richard Samp from the Washington Legal Foundation.

Mr. Samp, let's begin with you. If we do have these Geneva Convention articles, is any of this condoned, based on what we've seen?

RICHARD SAMP, WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION: Well, primarily, what we've been seeing, I think, is pictures of extreme abuse and humiliation and generally, no, either humiliation or extreme emotional or physical torture is not condoned.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Cole, maybe we should go back to what these articles are, adopted the latest round in 1949. They're basically guidelines for holding prisoners. Is that correct?

DAVID COLE, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: That's right, and they specifically provide that you're not supposed to treat a prisoner of war unpleasantly. The idea is that you can hold them for purposes of making sure that they don't go back out on to the battlefield and fight against you, but you must treat them with basic human dignity for the period that they are being detained. And, as these images have illustrated, we failed utterly to treat these people with basic human dignity.

So in what, if any, circumstance could these pictures be justified under the Geneva Convention articles, Mr. Cole?

COLE: I don't think under any circumstances, and it's not only the Geneva Convention provision, but it's also the Convention Against Torture, which is an international treaty that virtually every country in the world, including the United States, has signed on to. It's our own due process clause, which has long been understood to forbid in all circumstances torture.

And so, no, the question is not whether this conduct is legal. The question really is: Who's ultimately to blame for it, and how high does that responsibility go? I don't see many people coming out and saying, you know, "This was legal and this was justified."

GRIFFIN: Mr. Samp, your response?

SAMP: Well, I think that in many ways, this is a proud moment for the American military. This is not a scandal that has emerged because of Watergate-type press coverage. Rather, this is the Army, which has been doing its own investigation and is revealing to the world all its dirty laundry and is taking the appropriate disciplinary action against those who have violated policy.

There's been no showing at all that the written policies that were in place were in any way in violation of international law or of the Geneva Convention in particular.

GRIFFIN: Well, Mr. Samp, I know that you have not seen the videotape. It certainly seemed there were many people standing around. This didn't look like it was just a couple of the guys engaging in this. Certainly, there was some kind of authority overseeing this activity.

SAMP: Perhaps there was, and I would hope that all those responsible are held accountable.

GRIFFIN: You don't believe it goes any farther than the prison itself or the prison leaders?

SAMP: I think we ought to investigate that. I, frankly, don't know, but I have not seen anything to indicate that it even necessarily goes to the head of the prisons, but, rather, these were particular people who worked on particular shifts.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Cole, when you're trying to get information specifically from people who obviously don't abide by the Geneva Convention, terrorists, should there be any loosening of the rules?

COLE: Well, first of all, these people are not people who don't abide by the Geneva Conventions, terrorists. They were Iraqis who we contended were prisoners of war, were governed by the Geneva Conventions. So that argument -- even if that argument had any legitimacy -- and I don't think it does -- it clearly doesn't apply here.

You know, don't confuse, as the Bush administration always tries to, the war on terrorism with the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was a conventional war against a nation where the Geneva Conventions clearly apply, the government admitted they apply.

Yet the problem is that from very high up -- and I think Mr. Samp is just wrong on this -- there were indications we needed to get information out of people, that we had employed all sorts of extreme coercion against the people in Guantanamo, against the people at Bagram Air Force base in Afghanistan, against people in undisclosed CIA holding cells where we're holding people under water until they think they're drowning in order to get information from them, and those kinds of tactics ended up getting extended.

That kind of atmosphere got extended to the Abu Ghirab prison in Iraq. So absolutely the Geneva Conventions apply, and, no, there's no excuse for this kind of conduct.

GRIFFIN: David Cole, Richard Samp, thank you for joining us on yet another day of abusive pictures being released from that now infamous prison -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: He's a hardcore staff sergeant by day and a sensitive dad by night. Coming up next, we'll tell you what parenting and soldiering might have in common.

Plus, call it working overtime. Cameras caught this reporter going the extra mile. Talk about reporter involvement. We'll explain.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Mary Snow in New York. A beer ad has some lawmakers and activists in a froth. I'll tell you why when LIVE FROM returns right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a statistic that may surprise you. More than 74,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. The number is dramatic, especially since women played only a limited role in combat zones up through the first Gulf War. It's a sea change for the military with all kinds of implication on the battlefield and back at home.

Here's CNN's Thelma Gutierrez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Armando Figueroa, the daddy.

FIGUEROA: Get back! I want some snap.

GUTIERREZ: Staff Sergeant Figueroa, the drill instructor.

FIGUEROA: Smell it.

GUTIERREZ: The tenderness of a father.

FIGUEROA: You might want to open your mouth!

I love you.

GUTIERREZ: The patience of a mother.

FIGUEROA: My weapon's down. Snap. Now!

GUTIERREZ: The nurturing and love of both parents.

FIGUEROA: Why can't you get back!

GUTIERREZ: This is the story of Staff Sergeant Armando Figueroa and his wife, Angelina -- Marine Staff Sergeant Angelina.

FIGUEROA: Show up right. I lower it, change, bam. Ease the weapon to the deck. Snap.

GUTIERREZ: By day, Figueroa is a drill instructor who trains Marine recruits.

FIGUEROA: Who is this right here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uncle Frankie.

GUTIERREZ: By night, he is mom and dad to three young children -- Damian, Christian, and 2-year-old Isabel.

FIGUEROA: That's when Mommy and Daddy got married.

GUTIERREZ: The Figueroas have reversed roles. Last February, Armando sent his wife off to war.

FIGUEROA: I'll put it this way. Now I know how women feel when their husbands leave.

GUTIERREZ: On the other side of the world, in Iraq, Staff Sergeant Angelina Figueroa fixes weapon. She does not know when she'll see her kids again. It's not easy on the children. This is the second time Mom has gone to war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She left in February, and it's May.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): When is she coming home?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully September. She has missed one of my birthdays. Now she's in Iraq.

GUTIERREZ: Figueroa's parents have had to step in to help while their daughter-in-law is away. Olga Figueroa says it's bad that so many women are going to war and leaving their children behind. She says it's very hard on the kids because they miss their mother.

(on camera): What do you tell all the naysayers, the people who said she shouldn't be going to war?

FIGUEROA: I said they have a father. You know, I can take care of my kids as well as she can, you know? I can give them the comfort that her mother gives them. And she would say the same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like that she's in the Marine Corps. It's just that sometimes she always goes on trips and we never see her for a long, long, long time.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): It's a sacrifice for the whole family, and, until Mom comes home, they will have to make due with the video to see her face and her recorded message of love in this Teddy bear.

Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, near La Mesa, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: In this next story, the video's a little shaky, but the story is solid. So is the reporter out of Shreveport, Louisiana. He is a TV reporter named Fred Childers of station KSLA chasing down a suspect who ran from police when police were trying to book him into jail. Childers, who said he said he once considered becoming a cop, even caught the guy. Police say, "Don't do this at home."

Some community groups are finding a certain billboard ad for beer difficult to swallow. Mary Snow is LIVE FROM the New York Stock Exchange with that story and much more -- Mary, hi.

SNOW: Hi there, Drew.

Yes, the importers of Tecate beer plan to retire one of its billboards, and this is after some Hispanic lawmakers enacted this, found it offensive and protested. The billboard is to promote the launch of Tecate in a bottle, and they feature a leaning beer bottle with the tag line "Finally a cold Latina."

Now critics say the ad encourages negative stereotypes of Hispanic women. Officials with Tecate beer's importers say many Hispanics had favorable reactions to the ads when surveyed on the beer's Web site. Either way, though, the billboards come down at the end of the month -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: And, Mary, good news from Nordstrom's today? It seems they have a lot of shoppers coming into the stores.

SNOW: Yes, and a better control on its inventory. Nordstrom's came out with earnings. Its quarterly profit surged 153 percent. The up-scale department store chain says sales were strong and also that it made better use of technology to help keep track of inventory and trend.

Now, on top of that, shoppers scooped up items like designer clothes and accessories. That is helping Nordstrom's shares today. They're jumping more than 6 percent.

Now the broader market is also higher, although off its highs for the day. Right now, the Dow industrials are up 38 points. The NASDAQ is adding half of 1 percent, and that is the latest from Wall Street.

Coming up, it looks like business is getting personal, and U.S. companies are taking a licking overseas. Details on that story and more in the next hour of LIVE FROM.

Miles, back to you.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Mary Snow. Appreciate that.

Can your fingerprints end up in places you've never been? Coming up next in our second hour of LIVE FROM, I'll put my prints to the test. Good thing I trimmed my fingernails, right? We'll dissect those squiggly lines and how my cores and deltas can set me apart or perhaps link me to some shady characters. Oh, and, speaking of shady characters, Mike Brooks will be our expert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: The beheading investigation. Two men in custody, two let go. More details in the killing of American Nick Berg.

O'BRIEN: Millions of fingerprints on file. A high-profile terror case raises the question: How effective are they really at pointing the finger with the right suspect?

GRIFFIN: A bitter pill to swallow. Some surprising discoveries about what's really in your multivitamins.

O'BRIEN: And conquering Everest. A speedy and determined climber proved it's all in one day's work because it's there.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips off today.

GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 21, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The headlines at this hour.
Within the hour, a military jury at Fort Stewart, Georgia, convicted Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia of desertion. The Florida National Guardsman abandoned his combat unit to protest the war in Iraq. Mejia faces up to a year in jail and a bad conduct discharge. He'll be sentenced this afternoon.

Complete withdrawal. Spain withdrew the last of its remaining troops from Iraq today. Soldiers crossed the border into Kuwait. They're filling a campaign pledge made by the Spanish prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez, to bring the troops home.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: In Spain, Spanish authorities say a fingerprint found during their Madrid bombing probe belongs to an Algerian man, not an Oregon attorney.

CNN's Kimberly Osias join us now with details on today's sudden and surprising release of Brandon Mayfield.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Drew.

According to family member, 37-year-old Brandon Mayfield will remain here in his Oregon home resting today with his wife and his three children. This, after being held by federal authorities for the past two weeks.

Now, just a little while ago, I spoke with Kent Mayfield -- that is Brandon's brother, who tells me he was reunited with him for the first time yesterday, and he said that Brandon's state of mind right now is a little bit tenuous.

I mean, basically, he said he is really not at all happy with the handling of the situation, but, because of the gag order that is in place, he really doesn't want to compromise the legal situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENT MAYFIELD, BROTHER OF FORMER DETAINEE: I think there's going to be a major review about why they detained him. This obviously proves that this was a complete witch hunt, and we are going to follow up as much as I can.

(END VIDEO CLIP) OSIAS: Mayfield was being held as a material witness in connection with the March Madrid train bombings, the worst act of terrorism in any country since the 9/11 attacks. U.S. authorities still believe a fingerprint found on a plastic bag near the Madrid train station was that of Mayfield's.

Spanish authorities dispute those findings, telling CNN, in fact, there was never enough evidence for a print match. They say the prints do match those of an Algerian national, Ouhnane Daoud.

Mayfield spoke to press for the first time since his incarceration just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON MAYFIELD, FORMER DETAINEE: I thank God, everybody who was praying for me when I was in the Multnomah County Detention Center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: I did speak with the FBI officials here in Portland, and they said they cannot comment because, of course, there is grand jury proceedings that are continuing. There is also a gag order that is in place that I mentioned earlier.

Now, while Mayfield is no longer being held in detention, he is still considered, however, a material witness, and we are told by government sources that Mayfield is also, still, under surveillance -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: Kimberly, thank you. Live from Oregon.

We move to news across America now. He spent three decades behind bars, several years on death row for a murder he insists he did not commit. Well, now a Boston judge has set him free. The judge threw out the murder conviction against Laurence Adams after documents surfaced casting doubt on his guilt. Specifically, they include a statement from a key witness who says two other people committed the crime. Prosecutors will decide next month whether to retry Adams.

Former NBA star Jayson Williams will return to a New Jersey courtroom just 90 minutes from now. Prosecutors are expected to announce whether they will retry him on charges of reckless manslaughter in connection with the 2002 shooting death of a limousine driver.

And same-sex couples looking to tie the knot legally might not want to be traveling to Massachusetts. Governor Mitt Romney is ordering local governments in Massachusetts to follow the law there, which forbids out-of-state couples from getting married in the Bay State -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, you've seen the heart-tugging pictures this week of a toddler girl seemingly abandoned by her father in Baltimore. But now there may a strange but happy ending to the story of little Courtney.

Roosevelt Leftwich of CNN affiliate WMAR in Baltimore has details for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROOSEVELT LEFTWICH, WMAR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The family is optimistic that their prayers will finally be answered. It's been 18 months since they've seen Akasha Persons, but the child's grandfather says when he saw a picture on TV of the child that was abandoned here in Baltimore, he knew it was her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very lucky. I want to thank you guys for doing everything you did putting her picture up. Appreciate it very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much did that help, do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It made all the difference in the world because that's when I totally became convinced that it was her, when I saw the picture.

LEFTWICH: The story started in December of 2002. The woman in the gray shirt, 21-year-old Patricia Harper, was in a custody battle with Akasha's father, 37-year-old Robert Persons. Persons was awarded temporary custody of Akasha. A week later, Harper was given permanent custody of the child, but Persons took Akasha and then disappeared.

Last Friday, a child calling herself Courtney from Brooklyn, New York, is turned over to social services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dropped the child off with a complete stranger, went out trying to buy drugs, apparently got arrested, and the child was turned into the Department of Social Services, the child thinking that her name is Courtney, and what she said was, "My name is Courtney, and I am from Brooklyn," but what she meant was Brooklyn Avenue in Baltimore city.

LEFTWICH: Social services began a nationwide search concentrating in the New York area, but, when Akasha's pictures were shown on TV, that's when her grandfather from Laurel saw her. The family came up Thursday with documents, including a court order awarding the child to Patricia Harper. Social services is investigating the family's claim, but the attorneys say the family is hopeful that Akasha will come home soon.

(on camera): She's actually from Prince George's County. Her name happens to be Akasha. She's got a beautiful mom that she hasn't seen in two years, and she's going to find out that her mother loves her very much. The father apparently told Courtney that her mother didn't want anything to do with her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. All's well that end well. That was Roosevelt Leftwich of our Baltimore affiliate WMAR. He strikes fear into the hearts of recruits when the sun is up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMANDO FIGUEROA, STAFF SERGEANT: My weapon is down. Snap. Now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: But when the sun goes down, it's boot camp at home. It's a whole different story. We'll explain.

But, first, how much is too much? Soldiers inflicting torture to get what they want. Where should they draw the line? The debate is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: The photos keep coming, and details keep emerging about Iraqi prisoner abuse. Earlier this hour, we showed you the latest pictures and disturbing video published by "The Washington Post." The question is: Can anything we've seen in these pictures and videos legally condoned under the Geneva Conventions?

Joining us now from Washington, David Cole of the Georgetown Law Center and Richard Samp from the Washington Legal Foundation.

Mr. Samp, let's begin with you. If we do have these Geneva Convention articles, is any of this condoned, based on what we've seen?

RICHARD SAMP, WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION: Well, primarily, what we've been seeing, I think, is pictures of extreme abuse and humiliation and generally, no, either humiliation or extreme emotional or physical torture is not condoned.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Cole, maybe we should go back to what these articles are, adopted the latest round in 1949. They're basically guidelines for holding prisoners. Is that correct?

DAVID COLE, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: That's right, and they specifically provide that you're not supposed to treat a prisoner of war unpleasantly. The idea is that you can hold them for purposes of making sure that they don't go back out on to the battlefield and fight against you, but you must treat them with basic human dignity for the period that they are being detained. And, as these images have illustrated, we failed utterly to treat these people with basic human dignity.

So in what, if any, circumstance could these pictures be justified under the Geneva Convention articles, Mr. Cole?

COLE: I don't think under any circumstances, and it's not only the Geneva Convention provision, but it's also the Convention Against Torture, which is an international treaty that virtually every country in the world, including the United States, has signed on to. It's our own due process clause, which has long been understood to forbid in all circumstances torture.

And so, no, the question is not whether this conduct is legal. The question really is: Who's ultimately to blame for it, and how high does that responsibility go? I don't see many people coming out and saying, you know, "This was legal and this was justified."

GRIFFIN: Mr. Samp, your response?

SAMP: Well, I think that in many ways, this is a proud moment for the American military. This is not a scandal that has emerged because of Watergate-type press coverage. Rather, this is the Army, which has been doing its own investigation and is revealing to the world all its dirty laundry and is taking the appropriate disciplinary action against those who have violated policy.

There's been no showing at all that the written policies that were in place were in any way in violation of international law or of the Geneva Convention in particular.

GRIFFIN: Well, Mr. Samp, I know that you have not seen the videotape. It certainly seemed there were many people standing around. This didn't look like it was just a couple of the guys engaging in this. Certainly, there was some kind of authority overseeing this activity.

SAMP: Perhaps there was, and I would hope that all those responsible are held accountable.

GRIFFIN: You don't believe it goes any farther than the prison itself or the prison leaders?

SAMP: I think we ought to investigate that. I, frankly, don't know, but I have not seen anything to indicate that it even necessarily goes to the head of the prisons, but, rather, these were particular people who worked on particular shifts.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Cole, when you're trying to get information specifically from people who obviously don't abide by the Geneva Convention, terrorists, should there be any loosening of the rules?

COLE: Well, first of all, these people are not people who don't abide by the Geneva Conventions, terrorists. They were Iraqis who we contended were prisoners of war, were governed by the Geneva Conventions. So that argument -- even if that argument had any legitimacy -- and I don't think it does -- it clearly doesn't apply here.

You know, don't confuse, as the Bush administration always tries to, the war on terrorism with the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was a conventional war against a nation where the Geneva Conventions clearly apply, the government admitted they apply.

Yet the problem is that from very high up -- and I think Mr. Samp is just wrong on this -- there were indications we needed to get information out of people, that we had employed all sorts of extreme coercion against the people in Guantanamo, against the people at Bagram Air Force base in Afghanistan, against people in undisclosed CIA holding cells where we're holding people under water until they think they're drowning in order to get information from them, and those kinds of tactics ended up getting extended.

That kind of atmosphere got extended to the Abu Ghirab prison in Iraq. So absolutely the Geneva Conventions apply, and, no, there's no excuse for this kind of conduct.

GRIFFIN: David Cole, Richard Samp, thank you for joining us on yet another day of abusive pictures being released from that now infamous prison -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: He's a hardcore staff sergeant by day and a sensitive dad by night. Coming up next, we'll tell you what parenting and soldiering might have in common.

Plus, call it working overtime. Cameras caught this reporter going the extra mile. Talk about reporter involvement. We'll explain.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Mary Snow in New York. A beer ad has some lawmakers and activists in a froth. I'll tell you why when LIVE FROM returns right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a statistic that may surprise you. More than 74,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. The number is dramatic, especially since women played only a limited role in combat zones up through the first Gulf War. It's a sea change for the military with all kinds of implication on the battlefield and back at home.

Here's CNN's Thelma Gutierrez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Armando Figueroa, the daddy.

FIGUEROA: Get back! I want some snap.

GUTIERREZ: Staff Sergeant Figueroa, the drill instructor.

FIGUEROA: Smell it.

GUTIERREZ: The tenderness of a father.

FIGUEROA: You might want to open your mouth!

I love you.

GUTIERREZ: The patience of a mother.

FIGUEROA: My weapon's down. Snap. Now!

GUTIERREZ: The nurturing and love of both parents.

FIGUEROA: Why can't you get back!

GUTIERREZ: This is the story of Staff Sergeant Armando Figueroa and his wife, Angelina -- Marine Staff Sergeant Angelina.

FIGUEROA: Show up right. I lower it, change, bam. Ease the weapon to the deck. Snap.

GUTIERREZ: By day, Figueroa is a drill instructor who trains Marine recruits.

FIGUEROA: Who is this right here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uncle Frankie.

GUTIERREZ: By night, he is mom and dad to three young children -- Damian, Christian, and 2-year-old Isabel.

FIGUEROA: That's when Mommy and Daddy got married.

GUTIERREZ: The Figueroas have reversed roles. Last February, Armando sent his wife off to war.

FIGUEROA: I'll put it this way. Now I know how women feel when their husbands leave.

GUTIERREZ: On the other side of the world, in Iraq, Staff Sergeant Angelina Figueroa fixes weapon. She does not know when she'll see her kids again. It's not easy on the children. This is the second time Mom has gone to war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She left in February, and it's May.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): When is she coming home?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully September. She has missed one of my birthdays. Now she's in Iraq.

GUTIERREZ: Figueroa's parents have had to step in to help while their daughter-in-law is away. Olga Figueroa says it's bad that so many women are going to war and leaving their children behind. She says it's very hard on the kids because they miss their mother.

(on camera): What do you tell all the naysayers, the people who said she shouldn't be going to war?

FIGUEROA: I said they have a father. You know, I can take care of my kids as well as she can, you know? I can give them the comfort that her mother gives them. And she would say the same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like that she's in the Marine Corps. It's just that sometimes she always goes on trips and we never see her for a long, long, long time.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): It's a sacrifice for the whole family, and, until Mom comes home, they will have to make due with the video to see her face and her recorded message of love in this Teddy bear.

Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, near La Mesa, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: In this next story, the video's a little shaky, but the story is solid. So is the reporter out of Shreveport, Louisiana. He is a TV reporter named Fred Childers of station KSLA chasing down a suspect who ran from police when police were trying to book him into jail. Childers, who said he said he once considered becoming a cop, even caught the guy. Police say, "Don't do this at home."

Some community groups are finding a certain billboard ad for beer difficult to swallow. Mary Snow is LIVE FROM the New York Stock Exchange with that story and much more -- Mary, hi.

SNOW: Hi there, Drew.

Yes, the importers of Tecate beer plan to retire one of its billboards, and this is after some Hispanic lawmakers enacted this, found it offensive and protested. The billboard is to promote the launch of Tecate in a bottle, and they feature a leaning beer bottle with the tag line "Finally a cold Latina."

Now critics say the ad encourages negative stereotypes of Hispanic women. Officials with Tecate beer's importers say many Hispanics had favorable reactions to the ads when surveyed on the beer's Web site. Either way, though, the billboards come down at the end of the month -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: And, Mary, good news from Nordstrom's today? It seems they have a lot of shoppers coming into the stores.

SNOW: Yes, and a better control on its inventory. Nordstrom's came out with earnings. Its quarterly profit surged 153 percent. The up-scale department store chain says sales were strong and also that it made better use of technology to help keep track of inventory and trend.

Now, on top of that, shoppers scooped up items like designer clothes and accessories. That is helping Nordstrom's shares today. They're jumping more than 6 percent.

Now the broader market is also higher, although off its highs for the day. Right now, the Dow industrials are up 38 points. The NASDAQ is adding half of 1 percent, and that is the latest from Wall Street.

Coming up, it looks like business is getting personal, and U.S. companies are taking a licking overseas. Details on that story and more in the next hour of LIVE FROM.

Miles, back to you.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Mary Snow. Appreciate that.

Can your fingerprints end up in places you've never been? Coming up next in our second hour of LIVE FROM, I'll put my prints to the test. Good thing I trimmed my fingernails, right? We'll dissect those squiggly lines and how my cores and deltas can set me apart or perhaps link me to some shady characters. Oh, and, speaking of shady characters, Mike Brooks will be our expert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: The beheading investigation. Two men in custody, two let go. More details in the killing of American Nick Berg.

O'BRIEN: Millions of fingerprints on file. A high-profile terror case raises the question: How effective are they really at pointing the finger with the right suspect?

GRIFFIN: A bitter pill to swallow. Some surprising discoveries about what's really in your multivitamins.

O'BRIEN: And conquering Everest. A speedy and determined climber proved it's all in one day's work because it's there.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips off today.

GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

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