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Bush Outlines 5-Step Plan for Iraq, Was It Convincing?
Aired May 25, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush, pushing his plan for Iraq, but what do the Iraqis want? We're in-depth on the countdown to the handover.
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Keith Oppenheim, live in Gurnee, Illinois, the sandbags are out, the floodwaters are high, but the situation may be getting a little bit better a little bit faster than everyone thought. I'll have a live report coming up.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: A story of frozen fatherhood. A man sires a son more than 20 years after his sperm was frozen.
PHILLIPS: Oh, boy. Move on "American Idol." China gets ready for a one-in-a-billion chance at stardom.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off today.
GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
PHILLIPS: Up first this hour, faint praise and vague prospects for the Bush administration's blueprint for a sovereign Iraq. Eighteen hours after the president outlined a five-point strategy for ending U.S. occupation, many in Iraq and elsewhere wonder how much authority the U.S. really plans to hand over.
A resolution in the hands of the U.N. Security Council is being called a good foundation, but France, Russia and Germany say it needs work. We get the latest on all this from CNN's Elaine Quijano. She is traveling with the president today in Youngstown, Ohio -- Elaine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Bush is turning his attention to domestic affairs this afternoon here in Youngstown, Ohio. Ohio, of course, a key state for the president, one that he won in 2000 by just 4 percentage points.
The president is here to promote his ideas on expanding access to health care for low-income Americans. But last night at the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania, the president's focus was on Iraq. The president then laying out what he called five steps regarding Iraq's future. But critics contend his speech did not give enough specifics about the U.S.' role in Iraq.
Now this morning strong images coming out of the White House with the president visiting with Iraqis who are receiving medical treatment here in the U.S. These Iraqis suffered at the hands of Saddam Hussein's regime, having their hands cut off as punishment at a time when the Bush administration has faced criticism domestically for the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, as well as abroad.
The White House clearly continuing its effort to counter some of those recent negative images, and also some of the skepticism about U.S. intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll be there to help, and we'll help in a variety of ways. We'll help by making sure our security forces are there to work with their security forces. We'll help to make sure the reconstruction money we have set aside is well spent. We'll help by getting -- to continue to work with other countries to help aid a free Iraq. We'll do what we need to do to help the interim government succeed in getting to the period of free elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Also this morning, President Bush had a 20-minute phone conversation with French President Jacques Chirac looking for backing on that new resolution supporting the interim Iraqi government. Now France has expressed concerns, the U.S., by the way, as well as Britain, circulating that draft resolution yesterday.
France namely wanting to make sure that in fact there is a real transfer of power. The U.S. acknowledging that some final adjustments need to be made on the language of the resolution. But for the time being President Bush focusing his attention on health care as he promotes that agenda here in the Midwest.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, Youngstown, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Elaine, thank you.
More than four months after the U.S. general in charge of Abu Ghraib prison was brought home and admonished, she has now been officially suspended. Brigadier General Janis Karpinski has not been charged with any crimes, and at least theoretically she could be reinstated with the 800th Military Police Brigade.
She was singled out for criticism in the Pentagon's investigation of the prison abuse debacle, but insists she was unaware of what was going on there. The brigadier general will talk with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien tomorrow morning on "AMERICAN MORNING" at 7 Eastern time right here on CNN.
Well, as you can imagine, Iraqis watching all of the changes in their country with skepticism. They've witnessed firsthand the dangers of a dictator. They're not sure if they believe President Bush's promises. Our Harris Whitbeck takes to the streets of Baghdad to find out what the Iraqis want.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he has nearly every day for the last decade, 33-year-old Ali Hussein drives a taxi in Baghdad. Navigating the teeming streets affords him a unique view on the Iraq of today.
ALI HUSSEIN, TAXI DRIVER (through translator): I'm the first person to know if anything happens on the streets, explosions and so on. You can say that I know just about anything that happens in the capital.
WHITBECK: He also knows that his country is in for a change after June 30. Like many here, Ali's not sure of what that might entail. But he says any change will be good.
A. HUSSEIN: We must have a tangible change in order for us to look beyond the present and into the future.
WHITBECK: That future is what preoccupies Hassaneh Hussein. At 24 he's about to graduate from Baghdad University. And as he prepares to enter the workforce, he's concerned about the form a new government might take.
HASSANEH HUSSEIN, STUDENT (through translator): We don't want religious leaders to take over the power. They have the right to preserve their religious power, but they should not exercise political power.
WHITBECK: For religious leaders like Sheik Ahmed Abdul Jaffoor (ph), religious and political powers are entwined. The sheik is eager for the American occupation to end, but he says foreign troops should stay, under a different flag.
SHEIK AHMED, RELIGIOUS LEADER (through translator): If the Iraqis saw with their own eyes the Americans pulled out their forces and replaced them with United Nations forces, they would feel secure about picking their representatives for the elections.
WHITBECK: The U.N. has begun the long process of establishing an Iraqi government by processing nominations for an electoral commission. That could work, says taxi driver Ali, if there's real balance.
A. HUSSEIN: For democracy to work, equality must be imposed for all the religions and classes of society, are considered equal.
WHITBECK: Hassaneh, the college student, isn't too sure. He likes the idea of Iraq becoming a federal republic with all factions equally represented in government. But he is skeptical.
H. HUSSEIN: Such an idea looks good on paper, but when it comes to reality, it will not work. WHITBECK: Sheik Ahmed thinks a democracy could work if the U.S. stays out of it.
AHMED: An elected government is the best solution, but only if the United Nations get involved. It's a shame that the Americans do not understand the nature of the Iraqi people. This has been the problem.
WHITBECK: If it is the problem, at least it should be less so after June 30.
Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.
PHILLIPS: Well, they're picking up the pieces and the mops in the Midwest. Another wave of powerful thunderstorms is adding to what has been days of miserable weather. More tornadoes blew through northwest Missouri and parts of Kansas last night, demolishing homes and flipping over cars. The storms have drenched already flooded areas with even more rain. And residents in Illinois are keeping an eye on the rising Des Plaines River. Our Keith Oppenheim is watching it, too, in Gurnee.
Hi, Keith.
OPPENHEIM: Hi, Kyra, I'm in a dry place right now. I'm going to try to make an interesting transition for you. First of all, this is the inside of American Legion Post 771. You have some of the folks here who are making food for people who are dealing with flood recovery as well as Legion members. Now we're going to make a careful walk through a hallway to the outside where there are - excuse me, plenty of sandbags and protection against what you will see over here.
I'm going to climb over this sandbag wall into what's a virtual lake. This is the Des Plaines River behind me, or the overflow of the Des Plaines River. And it has created quite a mess. Over on this side of the building, you can see how they created a very effective wall.
Hundreds of volunteers put these sandbags, and they're doing the trick. They are keeping this building dry. Unfortunately, it's a different situation for about 20 families who have had to evacuate their homes that are a little bit lower in the flood plain.
Over here you can see all those sandbags that come in on that trailer. The good news, if you can call it good news, is that the river, Des Plaines River, is going to crest earlier than was expected. It was expected to crest tomorrow, meaning another day of buildup of rising waters. Now, we are told, it appears that the water will crest tonight and just break the record set back in 1986.
So it's bad, but it's not as bad as was expected. The problem is this water will all start to flow downstream towards the city of Des Plaines, so in a couple of days, maybe a little bit less now, perhaps a day-and-a-half, Des Plaines will mist likely be dealing with the kind of problems that they've been dealing with up here in Gurnee.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Keith, it's pretty amazing, I mean, all the roads here have turned into rivers it seems like. How are people getting around? Are they able to get to work? Has this sort of shut down the city?
OPPENHEIM: No, it has not. And that's because we are talking about a significant portion but certainly not a total section of Gurnee. It is basically down towards the flood plain where there are some residents as well as schools that are mostly affected. So a lot of Gurnee is doing its best. Some businesses are open, some are closed. The major thoroughfares are open. But there are traffic backups. And as I mentioned, school closings. So it certainly has disrupted life around here significantly.
PHILLIPS: Keith Oppenheim, thanks for an inside look there. Well, what's next for the Midwest? CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is here with that -- Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Kyra, more wet weather. But the good news is it looks like it is going to be coming downstream for most of the flooded area. Let's put this map together, showing you a lot of the major rivers across the area. And we'll put it into perspective for you.
Here's Chicago. Gurnee is up to the north of that on the Des Plaines River. And as Keith just mentioned, this is the latest information that we have now from the National Weather Service, expecting to crest this evening some time right around 12 feet.
As of 8:00 this morning it was at 11.7 feet. So we're really close to the forecast crest at this time. And the record stage was 10.75 feet. So already have surpassed that. And it looks like the river will come back within its banks now by Friday morning.
So that's earlier, they originally thought that it was Sunday. But that is some good news. It looks like it is going to be going back within its banks by Friday morning. Des Plaines up here. Dry weather, most of what you see in here up on the radar heading that way is not even reaching the ground. So we're not concerned about this adding any insult to injury.
The heavy rain down here along I-70 pushing towards the St. Louis area right now, isolated severe thunderstorms possible within that cluster. We had one about an hour ago. But nothing right now. We do have a severe thunderstorm watch. And this is brand new, which includes much of eastern Ohio into western Pennsylvania, parts of West Virginia, until 8:00 local time. Large hail and damaging winds will be a good possibility.
Very humid conditions across the Southeast. The West much cooler. And some more humid air back into much of the Southwest. Kyra, severe storms still possible for tomorrow. But we're looking at a slight risk. So we're not anticipating any more of the big outbreaks of tornadoes.
PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui, we'll continue to check in with you, thanks -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: More news across America now beginning with more trouble for the Catholic Church. The archdiocese of Boston closing 65 of its 357 parishes in Massachusetts. Declining Mass attendance, financial problems there caused in part by the abuse scandal, all factors in this downsizing. The closing signaled the largest amount of parish property to be sold in the history of the Catholic Church in America.
In New Mexico, a state of emergency. Governor Bill Richardson made the call after two wildfires charred thousands of acres. The 20,000-acre Peppin Fire is the worst, too hot to attack directly. Fire crews though are making progress with the other blaze.
More flames and billowing smoke outside Atlanta. These amazing pictures are of a fire outside at a warehouse. It is filled with chlorine pool products. A very dangerous situation. Our David Mattingly is on the scene in Conyers, Georgia, which is east of Atlanta -- David.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All eyes remain skyward in Rockdale County, Georgia, where a massive plume of smoke continues to rise from a burning warehouse, which contains large amounts of chlorine products including tablets used to treat hot tubs and pools.
The fire started with a loud explosion between 3:30 and 4:00 a.m. Eastern time. No one was hurt, but two dozen residents have since sought treatment at local hospitals for respiratory problems. The chlorine in the air has the potential to cause eye and skin irritation as well.
Authorities are evacuating areas downwind of the fire about five miles, affecting hundreds of people. This is not a mandatory evacuation. Interstate 20 has also been closed, that is the main thoroughfare through this part of Georgia, due to visibility and air quality problems.
At this time, the fire could be burning for some time. The chlorine compounds inside are very slow burning and require large amounts of water to extinguish, because of the chlorine, there are also environmental worries. Firefighters have to find a way to prevent the contaminated water from reaching nearby streams and waterways.
And all plans could change with the wind as the plume now visible for 40 miles, could change direction.
David Mattingly CNN, Conyers, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, what it is like to be in a war zone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: All the talk about punishing those involved in this abuse incident, all the talk about investigations into what's going on at this prison have fallen on deaf ears here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us live to talk about some of the fascinating things he's seen and heard on the streets of Iraq.
Elton John, Paul McCartney, Bob Hope and now Tommy Franks? Find out why this general's name is on the same list with some of the world's biggest entertainers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: News around the world now. Two weeks of unrelenting storms ravaged the Dominican Republic and neighboring Haiti, sweeping away homes in a torrent of mud and water. Hundreds of people dead or missing. Because of rising temperatures, Dominican officials are placing some of the dead in mass graves.
As of today, retired Army General Tommy Franks can call himself Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. The former head of the U.S. Central Command is being knighted in a private ceremony in London. However, since Franks is an American, he cannot call himself "sir."
PHILLIPS: Well, a scheduled handover of authority in Iraq is just 36 days away. Today, rather, there are lots of question about whether President Bush has managed to ease concerns over the plan for Iraq's future.
Now yesterday Republican strategist Cheri Jacobus and Democratic Peter Fenn were here to preview the president's primetime speech. They didn't beat each other up. They're both back. They're smiling, so we've invited them to come back and talk about whether Mr. Bush lived up to their expectations.
Nice to see you both.
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you, good to see you.
PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be back.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, first of all, Peter, what did you think? Did you expect last night or were you surprised?
FENN: Well, I wasn't surprised in the sense that though we did have a little bit of a preview, but I thought there would be something new in the speech. And so I was kind of wondering after it was all over, why did he give this speech?
And I think the conclusion, obviously, is that it was political. This is a guy, George Bush, who put the PR back in president, and it was -- he was taking his show on the road. And he's announced that he's going to do more of these before June 30. And I think that the American people though will call for more meat. They want to know the details. They want to know exactly what's going to happen. And we surely didn't get that in that speech last night.
PHILLIPS: Cheri, did we get any meat?
JACOBUS: I would say we got plenty of meat. And I would also agree that it was a good PR move on the part of the president. And I think that's a good thing. He did what he needed to do. There's been so much sniping and swiping at the president lately from all sides saying that there is no plan, there is no strategy.
Well, he does have a plan. He's a very consistent president. He's been consistent with what he's been saying about Iraq. He was honest. He said that this was going to be very difficult up and until and even beyond the handover of power. So that is one of his strong points. He doesn't sugarcoat this for us.
But he laid out a plan in terms that the American people can understand. He sort of connected the dots and laid the foundation so that in the future -- and I think he does need to do this in the future, he can put the meat on the bones in terms of what our troops will be doing there.
But we do know, and this is good news, I thought that he really hit home the point that there will be 250 -- a full quarter million Iraqi troops trained, fighting alongside American troops. So they will outnumber us two to one. And that is a very good sing. It shows an indication that he clearly has a plan for getting Iraqis on their feet so that we don't need to be there.
PHILLIPS: All right. Hold on, I want to get your response. I have two parts of the speech here I want to get both of you to respond to. Peter, I know you want to say something there. But let's just roll this for a soundbite then I want to get you two respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security, not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American. Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Peter, he said he does not want to make them American. A lot of the critics say that's exactly what he wants to do and that a lot of the Iraqis don't even want a democracy.
FENN: You know, an Army captain came back from Iraq and told a good friend of mine that he met two kinds of people in Iraq. He met those that hate us, and he met those who want us to leave. And, you know, that's a fairly scary view from an Army captain.
What we've got now, unfortunately, is an occupying force. And a year ago he told us the mission was accomplished. A year ago he told us that we were going to be out of there. A year ago he told us that we were going to democratize this country. Well, we are no closer to that really now than we were before.
Cheri raises the point about his plan. There is really no plan. There are just words. Right now who are going to control the forces after September (sic) 30? Are we going to do it, is the U.N. going to do it? Who are these people we're going to put in power, and what kind of power will they have? When will the troops come home? We don't have any kind of exit strategy yet in this war. And it's scary.
JACOBUS: Peter, that's a really interesting point...
PHILLIPS: Cheri, do you think there should be an exit strategy or a win strategy?
JACOBUS: I think first and foremost there has to be a strategy to win and to keep Iraq free so they can allow them to keep their own country free. And that's the most important thing. For us to start talking about an exit strategy right now would be to talk about failure. And that is...
FENN: What's now...
JACOBUS: ... where I think...
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Cheri.
JACOBUS: ... really, really being damaging to this entire effort. We have to win. And anything short of winning, anything short of...
FENN: But what the winning, Cheri? That's the problem.
JACOBUS: Well, let's not talk about exiting now.
FENN" Winning over whom?
JACOBUS: The president laid out.
FENN: I mean, we have -- supposedly we won a year ago when we had the "mission accomplished" sign on the ship.
JACOBUS: I watched the same speech you did last night.
FENN: I understand, but winning means what?
PHILLIPS: All right.
FENN: The trouble we have is the only way to win this...
PHILLIPS: We need to...
FENN: Let me just get this one quick point. The only way to win this battle, if you call it that, is to have the United Nations in, NATO in, John Kerry called 593 days ago for the United Nations and the NATO forces to be a part of this. They are not a serious part of this. We cannot do this alone. We cannot.
PHILLIPS: All right, on that note...
JACOBUS: Peter, but I think...
PHILLIPS: Hold on. You bring up an interesting point. I want to take a second part of the speech. It parlays right into what you just made a point of there, Peter. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: American soldiers and Marines could have used overwhelming force. Our commanders, however, consulted with Iraq's Governing Council and local officials and determined that massive strikes against the enemy would alienate the local population and increase support for the insurgency. So we have pursued a different approach. We're making security a shared responsibility in Fallujah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Peter, you bring up the shared responsibility aspect. And he also talked about alienating -- don't want to alienate the Iraqi people. But Cheri, it seems like that that is one of the biggest struggles here and one of the biggest problems is that the Iraqis feel alienated.
JACOBUS: I think the president was very clear in acknowledging some of our challenges that are facing us. And I think that what he just said in that speech is a clear example, too, that he has a plan and strategy and they're working to address those concerns.
So I think that was very comforting to the American people. And if you hear a lot of the mainstream media, and certainly if you can hear John Kerry and the Democrats, you would think that this wasn't being addressed at all. So in that regard the president's speech was good.
I want to address what Peter had said...
FENN: Cheri, let me just - let me just...
PHILLIPS: Hold on, Peter, let her finish quickly and then I'll get to -- you'll have the last word, Peter.
JACOBUS: What Peter had said in terms of defining victory, the president laid out last night what victory would be. And this is having the Iraqis control their own oil, having -- they have a new currency coming in, having Iraqis be able to have their own strong defense.
And that is, again, we have the 250,000, a full quarter of a million troops that are being trained. Those are the goals and those are the aspects of victory that are well under way. An infrastructure that's being rebuilt. So I think it was very clear what the definition of victory is, and the president...
FENN: I wish that were.
PHILLIPS: Peter, 10 seconds, we've got to go to break.
FENN: I wish that were true. The trouble is, we put our stake in Chalabi. Chalabi now has come out against us, calling us liars. We do not know who we're putting in place. This is chaos in this country. This president does not take any of the blame for it or -- but all the credit. So it's a quagmire we're in right now.
PHILLIPS: Peter Fenn, Cheri Jacobus, I'm going to ask you guys again on the air, will you come back prior to the handover, we're going to get this going again, same discussion?
JACOBUS: Absolutely.
FENN: Certainly, thanks.
PHILLIPS: OK, we'll see you then. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back, thanks, guys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 25, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush, pushing his plan for Iraq, but what do the Iraqis want? We're in-depth on the countdown to the handover.
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Keith Oppenheim, live in Gurnee, Illinois, the sandbags are out, the floodwaters are high, but the situation may be getting a little bit better a little bit faster than everyone thought. I'll have a live report coming up.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: A story of frozen fatherhood. A man sires a son more than 20 years after his sperm was frozen.
PHILLIPS: Oh, boy. Move on "American Idol." China gets ready for a one-in-a-billion chance at stardom.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off today.
GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
PHILLIPS: Up first this hour, faint praise and vague prospects for the Bush administration's blueprint for a sovereign Iraq. Eighteen hours after the president outlined a five-point strategy for ending U.S. occupation, many in Iraq and elsewhere wonder how much authority the U.S. really plans to hand over.
A resolution in the hands of the U.N. Security Council is being called a good foundation, but France, Russia and Germany say it needs work. We get the latest on all this from CNN's Elaine Quijano. She is traveling with the president today in Youngstown, Ohio -- Elaine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Bush is turning his attention to domestic affairs this afternoon here in Youngstown, Ohio. Ohio, of course, a key state for the president, one that he won in 2000 by just 4 percentage points.
The president is here to promote his ideas on expanding access to health care for low-income Americans. But last night at the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania, the president's focus was on Iraq. The president then laying out what he called five steps regarding Iraq's future. But critics contend his speech did not give enough specifics about the U.S.' role in Iraq.
Now this morning strong images coming out of the White House with the president visiting with Iraqis who are receiving medical treatment here in the U.S. These Iraqis suffered at the hands of Saddam Hussein's regime, having their hands cut off as punishment at a time when the Bush administration has faced criticism domestically for the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, as well as abroad.
The White House clearly continuing its effort to counter some of those recent negative images, and also some of the skepticism about U.S. intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll be there to help, and we'll help in a variety of ways. We'll help by making sure our security forces are there to work with their security forces. We'll help to make sure the reconstruction money we have set aside is well spent. We'll help by getting -- to continue to work with other countries to help aid a free Iraq. We'll do what we need to do to help the interim government succeed in getting to the period of free elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Also this morning, President Bush had a 20-minute phone conversation with French President Jacques Chirac looking for backing on that new resolution supporting the interim Iraqi government. Now France has expressed concerns, the U.S., by the way, as well as Britain, circulating that draft resolution yesterday.
France namely wanting to make sure that in fact there is a real transfer of power. The U.S. acknowledging that some final adjustments need to be made on the language of the resolution. But for the time being President Bush focusing his attention on health care as he promotes that agenda here in the Midwest.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, Youngstown, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Elaine, thank you.
More than four months after the U.S. general in charge of Abu Ghraib prison was brought home and admonished, she has now been officially suspended. Brigadier General Janis Karpinski has not been charged with any crimes, and at least theoretically she could be reinstated with the 800th Military Police Brigade.
She was singled out for criticism in the Pentagon's investigation of the prison abuse debacle, but insists she was unaware of what was going on there. The brigadier general will talk with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien tomorrow morning on "AMERICAN MORNING" at 7 Eastern time right here on CNN.
Well, as you can imagine, Iraqis watching all of the changes in their country with skepticism. They've witnessed firsthand the dangers of a dictator. They're not sure if they believe President Bush's promises. Our Harris Whitbeck takes to the streets of Baghdad to find out what the Iraqis want.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he has nearly every day for the last decade, 33-year-old Ali Hussein drives a taxi in Baghdad. Navigating the teeming streets affords him a unique view on the Iraq of today.
ALI HUSSEIN, TAXI DRIVER (through translator): I'm the first person to know if anything happens on the streets, explosions and so on. You can say that I know just about anything that happens in the capital.
WHITBECK: He also knows that his country is in for a change after June 30. Like many here, Ali's not sure of what that might entail. But he says any change will be good.
A. HUSSEIN: We must have a tangible change in order for us to look beyond the present and into the future.
WHITBECK: That future is what preoccupies Hassaneh Hussein. At 24 he's about to graduate from Baghdad University. And as he prepares to enter the workforce, he's concerned about the form a new government might take.
HASSANEH HUSSEIN, STUDENT (through translator): We don't want religious leaders to take over the power. They have the right to preserve their religious power, but they should not exercise political power.
WHITBECK: For religious leaders like Sheik Ahmed Abdul Jaffoor (ph), religious and political powers are entwined. The sheik is eager for the American occupation to end, but he says foreign troops should stay, under a different flag.
SHEIK AHMED, RELIGIOUS LEADER (through translator): If the Iraqis saw with their own eyes the Americans pulled out their forces and replaced them with United Nations forces, they would feel secure about picking their representatives for the elections.
WHITBECK: The U.N. has begun the long process of establishing an Iraqi government by processing nominations for an electoral commission. That could work, says taxi driver Ali, if there's real balance.
A. HUSSEIN: For democracy to work, equality must be imposed for all the religions and classes of society, are considered equal.
WHITBECK: Hassaneh, the college student, isn't too sure. He likes the idea of Iraq becoming a federal republic with all factions equally represented in government. But he is skeptical.
H. HUSSEIN: Such an idea looks good on paper, but when it comes to reality, it will not work. WHITBECK: Sheik Ahmed thinks a democracy could work if the U.S. stays out of it.
AHMED: An elected government is the best solution, but only if the United Nations get involved. It's a shame that the Americans do not understand the nature of the Iraqi people. This has been the problem.
WHITBECK: If it is the problem, at least it should be less so after June 30.
Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.
PHILLIPS: Well, they're picking up the pieces and the mops in the Midwest. Another wave of powerful thunderstorms is adding to what has been days of miserable weather. More tornadoes blew through northwest Missouri and parts of Kansas last night, demolishing homes and flipping over cars. The storms have drenched already flooded areas with even more rain. And residents in Illinois are keeping an eye on the rising Des Plaines River. Our Keith Oppenheim is watching it, too, in Gurnee.
Hi, Keith.
OPPENHEIM: Hi, Kyra, I'm in a dry place right now. I'm going to try to make an interesting transition for you. First of all, this is the inside of American Legion Post 771. You have some of the folks here who are making food for people who are dealing with flood recovery as well as Legion members. Now we're going to make a careful walk through a hallway to the outside where there are - excuse me, plenty of sandbags and protection against what you will see over here.
I'm going to climb over this sandbag wall into what's a virtual lake. This is the Des Plaines River behind me, or the overflow of the Des Plaines River. And it has created quite a mess. Over on this side of the building, you can see how they created a very effective wall.
Hundreds of volunteers put these sandbags, and they're doing the trick. They are keeping this building dry. Unfortunately, it's a different situation for about 20 families who have had to evacuate their homes that are a little bit lower in the flood plain.
Over here you can see all those sandbags that come in on that trailer. The good news, if you can call it good news, is that the river, Des Plaines River, is going to crest earlier than was expected. It was expected to crest tomorrow, meaning another day of buildup of rising waters. Now, we are told, it appears that the water will crest tonight and just break the record set back in 1986.
So it's bad, but it's not as bad as was expected. The problem is this water will all start to flow downstream towards the city of Des Plaines, so in a couple of days, maybe a little bit less now, perhaps a day-and-a-half, Des Plaines will mist likely be dealing with the kind of problems that they've been dealing with up here in Gurnee.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Keith, it's pretty amazing, I mean, all the roads here have turned into rivers it seems like. How are people getting around? Are they able to get to work? Has this sort of shut down the city?
OPPENHEIM: No, it has not. And that's because we are talking about a significant portion but certainly not a total section of Gurnee. It is basically down towards the flood plain where there are some residents as well as schools that are mostly affected. So a lot of Gurnee is doing its best. Some businesses are open, some are closed. The major thoroughfares are open. But there are traffic backups. And as I mentioned, school closings. So it certainly has disrupted life around here significantly.
PHILLIPS: Keith Oppenheim, thanks for an inside look there. Well, what's next for the Midwest? CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is here with that -- Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Kyra, more wet weather. But the good news is it looks like it is going to be coming downstream for most of the flooded area. Let's put this map together, showing you a lot of the major rivers across the area. And we'll put it into perspective for you.
Here's Chicago. Gurnee is up to the north of that on the Des Plaines River. And as Keith just mentioned, this is the latest information that we have now from the National Weather Service, expecting to crest this evening some time right around 12 feet.
As of 8:00 this morning it was at 11.7 feet. So we're really close to the forecast crest at this time. And the record stage was 10.75 feet. So already have surpassed that. And it looks like the river will come back within its banks now by Friday morning.
So that's earlier, they originally thought that it was Sunday. But that is some good news. It looks like it is going to be going back within its banks by Friday morning. Des Plaines up here. Dry weather, most of what you see in here up on the radar heading that way is not even reaching the ground. So we're not concerned about this adding any insult to injury.
The heavy rain down here along I-70 pushing towards the St. Louis area right now, isolated severe thunderstorms possible within that cluster. We had one about an hour ago. But nothing right now. We do have a severe thunderstorm watch. And this is brand new, which includes much of eastern Ohio into western Pennsylvania, parts of West Virginia, until 8:00 local time. Large hail and damaging winds will be a good possibility.
Very humid conditions across the Southeast. The West much cooler. And some more humid air back into much of the Southwest. Kyra, severe storms still possible for tomorrow. But we're looking at a slight risk. So we're not anticipating any more of the big outbreaks of tornadoes.
PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui, we'll continue to check in with you, thanks -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: More news across America now beginning with more trouble for the Catholic Church. The archdiocese of Boston closing 65 of its 357 parishes in Massachusetts. Declining Mass attendance, financial problems there caused in part by the abuse scandal, all factors in this downsizing. The closing signaled the largest amount of parish property to be sold in the history of the Catholic Church in America.
In New Mexico, a state of emergency. Governor Bill Richardson made the call after two wildfires charred thousands of acres. The 20,000-acre Peppin Fire is the worst, too hot to attack directly. Fire crews though are making progress with the other blaze.
More flames and billowing smoke outside Atlanta. These amazing pictures are of a fire outside at a warehouse. It is filled with chlorine pool products. A very dangerous situation. Our David Mattingly is on the scene in Conyers, Georgia, which is east of Atlanta -- David.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All eyes remain skyward in Rockdale County, Georgia, where a massive plume of smoke continues to rise from a burning warehouse, which contains large amounts of chlorine products including tablets used to treat hot tubs and pools.
The fire started with a loud explosion between 3:30 and 4:00 a.m. Eastern time. No one was hurt, but two dozen residents have since sought treatment at local hospitals for respiratory problems. The chlorine in the air has the potential to cause eye and skin irritation as well.
Authorities are evacuating areas downwind of the fire about five miles, affecting hundreds of people. This is not a mandatory evacuation. Interstate 20 has also been closed, that is the main thoroughfare through this part of Georgia, due to visibility and air quality problems.
At this time, the fire could be burning for some time. The chlorine compounds inside are very slow burning and require large amounts of water to extinguish, because of the chlorine, there are also environmental worries. Firefighters have to find a way to prevent the contaminated water from reaching nearby streams and waterways.
And all plans could change with the wind as the plume now visible for 40 miles, could change direction.
David Mattingly CNN, Conyers, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, what it is like to be in a war zone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: All the talk about punishing those involved in this abuse incident, all the talk about investigations into what's going on at this prison have fallen on deaf ears here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us live to talk about some of the fascinating things he's seen and heard on the streets of Iraq.
Elton John, Paul McCartney, Bob Hope and now Tommy Franks? Find out why this general's name is on the same list with some of the world's biggest entertainers.
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GRIFFIN: News around the world now. Two weeks of unrelenting storms ravaged the Dominican Republic and neighboring Haiti, sweeping away homes in a torrent of mud and water. Hundreds of people dead or missing. Because of rising temperatures, Dominican officials are placing some of the dead in mass graves.
As of today, retired Army General Tommy Franks can call himself Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. The former head of the U.S. Central Command is being knighted in a private ceremony in London. However, since Franks is an American, he cannot call himself "sir."
PHILLIPS: Well, a scheduled handover of authority in Iraq is just 36 days away. Today, rather, there are lots of question about whether President Bush has managed to ease concerns over the plan for Iraq's future.
Now yesterday Republican strategist Cheri Jacobus and Democratic Peter Fenn were here to preview the president's primetime speech. They didn't beat each other up. They're both back. They're smiling, so we've invited them to come back and talk about whether Mr. Bush lived up to their expectations.
Nice to see you both.
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you, good to see you.
PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be back.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, first of all, Peter, what did you think? Did you expect last night or were you surprised?
FENN: Well, I wasn't surprised in the sense that though we did have a little bit of a preview, but I thought there would be something new in the speech. And so I was kind of wondering after it was all over, why did he give this speech?
And I think the conclusion, obviously, is that it was political. This is a guy, George Bush, who put the PR back in president, and it was -- he was taking his show on the road. And he's announced that he's going to do more of these before June 30. And I think that the American people though will call for more meat. They want to know the details. They want to know exactly what's going to happen. And we surely didn't get that in that speech last night.
PHILLIPS: Cheri, did we get any meat?
JACOBUS: I would say we got plenty of meat. And I would also agree that it was a good PR move on the part of the president. And I think that's a good thing. He did what he needed to do. There's been so much sniping and swiping at the president lately from all sides saying that there is no plan, there is no strategy.
Well, he does have a plan. He's a very consistent president. He's been consistent with what he's been saying about Iraq. He was honest. He said that this was going to be very difficult up and until and even beyond the handover of power. So that is one of his strong points. He doesn't sugarcoat this for us.
But he laid out a plan in terms that the American people can understand. He sort of connected the dots and laid the foundation so that in the future -- and I think he does need to do this in the future, he can put the meat on the bones in terms of what our troops will be doing there.
But we do know, and this is good news, I thought that he really hit home the point that there will be 250 -- a full quarter million Iraqi troops trained, fighting alongside American troops. So they will outnumber us two to one. And that is a very good sing. It shows an indication that he clearly has a plan for getting Iraqis on their feet so that we don't need to be there.
PHILLIPS: All right. Hold on, I want to get your response. I have two parts of the speech here I want to get both of you to respond to. Peter, I know you want to say something there. But let's just roll this for a soundbite then I want to get you two respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security, not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American. Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Peter, he said he does not want to make them American. A lot of the critics say that's exactly what he wants to do and that a lot of the Iraqis don't even want a democracy.
FENN: You know, an Army captain came back from Iraq and told a good friend of mine that he met two kinds of people in Iraq. He met those that hate us, and he met those who want us to leave. And, you know, that's a fairly scary view from an Army captain.
What we've got now, unfortunately, is an occupying force. And a year ago he told us the mission was accomplished. A year ago he told us that we were going to be out of there. A year ago he told us that we were going to democratize this country. Well, we are no closer to that really now than we were before.
Cheri raises the point about his plan. There is really no plan. There are just words. Right now who are going to control the forces after September (sic) 30? Are we going to do it, is the U.N. going to do it? Who are these people we're going to put in power, and what kind of power will they have? When will the troops come home? We don't have any kind of exit strategy yet in this war. And it's scary.
JACOBUS: Peter, that's a really interesting point...
PHILLIPS: Cheri, do you think there should be an exit strategy or a win strategy?
JACOBUS: I think first and foremost there has to be a strategy to win and to keep Iraq free so they can allow them to keep their own country free. And that's the most important thing. For us to start talking about an exit strategy right now would be to talk about failure. And that is...
FENN: What's now...
JACOBUS: ... where I think...
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Cheri.
JACOBUS: ... really, really being damaging to this entire effort. We have to win. And anything short of winning, anything short of...
FENN: But what the winning, Cheri? That's the problem.
JACOBUS: Well, let's not talk about exiting now.
FENN" Winning over whom?
JACOBUS: The president laid out.
FENN: I mean, we have -- supposedly we won a year ago when we had the "mission accomplished" sign on the ship.
JACOBUS: I watched the same speech you did last night.
FENN: I understand, but winning means what?
PHILLIPS: All right.
FENN: The trouble we have is the only way to win this...
PHILLIPS: We need to...
FENN: Let me just get this one quick point. The only way to win this battle, if you call it that, is to have the United Nations in, NATO in, John Kerry called 593 days ago for the United Nations and the NATO forces to be a part of this. They are not a serious part of this. We cannot do this alone. We cannot.
PHILLIPS: All right, on that note...
JACOBUS: Peter, but I think...
PHILLIPS: Hold on. You bring up an interesting point. I want to take a second part of the speech. It parlays right into what you just made a point of there, Peter. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: American soldiers and Marines could have used overwhelming force. Our commanders, however, consulted with Iraq's Governing Council and local officials and determined that massive strikes against the enemy would alienate the local population and increase support for the insurgency. So we have pursued a different approach. We're making security a shared responsibility in Fallujah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Peter, you bring up the shared responsibility aspect. And he also talked about alienating -- don't want to alienate the Iraqi people. But Cheri, it seems like that that is one of the biggest struggles here and one of the biggest problems is that the Iraqis feel alienated.
JACOBUS: I think the president was very clear in acknowledging some of our challenges that are facing us. And I think that what he just said in that speech is a clear example, too, that he has a plan and strategy and they're working to address those concerns.
So I think that was very comforting to the American people. And if you hear a lot of the mainstream media, and certainly if you can hear John Kerry and the Democrats, you would think that this wasn't being addressed at all. So in that regard the president's speech was good.
I want to address what Peter had said...
FENN: Cheri, let me just - let me just...
PHILLIPS: Hold on, Peter, let her finish quickly and then I'll get to -- you'll have the last word, Peter.
JACOBUS: What Peter had said in terms of defining victory, the president laid out last night what victory would be. And this is having the Iraqis control their own oil, having -- they have a new currency coming in, having Iraqis be able to have their own strong defense.
And that is, again, we have the 250,000, a full quarter of a million troops that are being trained. Those are the goals and those are the aspects of victory that are well under way. An infrastructure that's being rebuilt. So I think it was very clear what the definition of victory is, and the president...
FENN: I wish that were.
PHILLIPS: Peter, 10 seconds, we've got to go to break.
FENN: I wish that were true. The trouble is, we put our stake in Chalabi. Chalabi now has come out against us, calling us liars. We do not know who we're putting in place. This is chaos in this country. This president does not take any of the blame for it or -- but all the credit. So it's a quagmire we're in right now.
PHILLIPS: Peter Fenn, Cheri Jacobus, I'm going to ask you guys again on the air, will you come back prior to the handover, we're going to get this going again, same discussion?
JACOBUS: Absolutely.
FENN: Certainly, thanks.
PHILLIPS: OK, we'll see you then. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back, thanks, guys.
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