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Amnesty International Issues Scathing Report on United States; Fingerprint Flap

Aired May 26, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

Here's what's happening at this hour.

O'BRIEN: Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry says terrorists will never shut down the democracy or the ability to function in the United States. Kerry delivers a national security address tomorrow. He told reporters today the threat of terror is very real.

A federal appeals court orders the Bush administration to stay out of Oregon's assisted-suicide law. The court says the government cannot sanction or prosecute organ doctors for prescribing drug overdoses to terminally ill patients who ask for them.

And higher gas prices are hitting folks in the sky, United Airlines adding a $5 fuel surcharge to most passenger tickets. Some other air carriers have already added those charges.

PHILLIPS: Well, we begin this hour with clear and present dangers.

If you've been watching CNN, you saw Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller warn that al Qaeda is planning to hit America hard in the next few months. Officials don't know how, where or when, but they know of seven people who might and Americans everywhere are being urged to be on the lookout for each one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Want to know whether you've seen them in your communities or that someone might be hiding them, have any idea where they might be. We need you to come forward, whether it be here or overseas. And finally, finally, we ask you to simply be aware of your surroundings. Remain vigilant. Take note of any suspicious activities. And if you do observe anything suspicious, please contact your local police or your local FBI office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the feds believe that preparations for some sort of attack are anywhere from 70 to 90 percent complete. Potential targets range from political conventions to economic summits to subway stations and shopping malls.

Still, at least for now, the official U.S. threat level stands at code yellow, or elevated risk.

O'BRIEN: Since 9/11, the U.S. has rounded up hundreds of would- be terrorists, many of them thrown in jail, but never charged. It happened to Brandon Mayfield, supposedly because of a fingerprint that turned out not to be his.

CNN's Brian Todd has more on his case, start to finish.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A ridge, a dot, a spur, important features on a fingerprint that can make all the difference in nailing down a case. But in Brandon Mayfield's case, all the FBI's sophistication led the agency to the wrong man.

ROBERT JORDAN, FBI: The FBI regrets the hardships that this matter has placed upon Mr. Mayfield and his family.

TODD: How could the fingerprint evidence have been botched in this case? From near the wreckage of bombed-out trains in Madrid, Spanish agents lifted an unidentified latent fingerprint. That's one not visible to the latent eye. They transmitted a digital image of that print to the FBI.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The U.S. got the image of this print from the Spanish. They ran it through their -- supposedly the best system in the world right now, the IAFIS system.

TODD: IAFIS, or Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, a supercomputer that compares an unidentified print to a database of millions of known prints. From that comparison, IAFIS produce a short list of potential matches, usually between six and 12. These are based on what experts call points of identification or points of minutia, essentially, any similar characteristics between prints. That's where human fingerprint examiners come in, to try to match up the new print with those from the computer's short list.

In this case, FBI analysts made the link to Mayfield based on military and criminal prints of him on file and brought in an outside expert who verified it. But last week, Spanish investigators said the print matched that of an Algerian man. So the FBI sent a team to Spain to compare the digital image they had with the actual print. The result, disaster.

JORDAN: Upon review, it was determined that the FBI identification was based on an image of substandard quality.

TODD: We spoke to two forensic experts and a former FBI special agent in charge, who all say the reliance on partial latent fingerprints for matches is a mistake.

In the Mayfield case, the problem was compounded when the FBI first got only a digital image of a latent print. But critics point to other systemic problems.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE: The real issue is that there is an insufficient amount of attention and money spent toward fingerprints. We need national standards.

TODD: Responding to those points, an official with an FBI fingerprint unit told CNN they don't need standards for a number of identical characteristics to be matched because they look at the entire picture, all the shapes and ridges in a print. He said the agency's experts are put through two years of rigorous training and he's got no problem with the funding.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Scathing words for how the U.S. is waging the war on terror. The human rights group Amnesty International is releasing a blistering report leveling serious charges at the Bush administration.

Our Sean Callebs is combing through the details in Washington -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, plain and simple, the Amnesty International group says the Bush administration has lost its moral compass in the war on terrorism and that its policies have made the world less safe. Amnesty International cites the manner in which the U.S. military is pursuing the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying U.S. actions `have inflamed emotions around the globe.

The human rights group says the fight against terror has evolved into what it is calling a global street brawl. It says governments and armed groups like al Qaeda are -- quote -- "duking it out" and the civilians are the ones paying the price.

Now, much of the criticism leveled at the U.S. in the annual report that ended in December of 2003 focuses on the U.S.-led action in Iraq. It says hundreds of civilians were killed and thousands injured during fighting there last year. Amnesty International says thousands of other Iraqis have been arrested and detained without charges. The organization says a number of U.S. troops are facing court-martial for their actions at Abu Ghraib prison and that the U.S. must end its abuse of prisoners to regain the reputation of a country with a strong human rights record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM SCHULZ, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL USA: It is clear that the way in which the war on terror is being conducted today is not making us safer. To put it as simply as possible, it is, in fact, a failure. It is making the world more dangerous. And by relying on force alone, the U.S. government has sacrificed one of its major weapons in the struggle against terrorism, namely, its own reputation as an exemplar of human rights. There's no better example of this than the situation at Abu Ghraib. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: The group is also condemning al Qaeda in what it calls the strongest possible terms, calling it callous, cruel and criminal.

The human rights group points out, however, that the U.S. is adding credibility to armed organizations like al Qaeda by keeping prisoners from legal counsel and being kept in seclusion in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: From D.C., Sean Callebs, thanks.

O'BRIEN: All right, Kyra, I know you know the answer to this one. What is the highest peak in the highest peak in the Dolomites and where is it located?

PHILLIPS: Is this a trick question?

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: No, it's not a trick question. This is the reason we're not in the geography bee.

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: All right, whiz kids from the geography bee, who do know the Dolomites are and the highest elevation will be coming up on LIVE FROM.

And will there be a big-screen version of "Sex and the City."

PHILLIPS: I know that answer.

O'BRIEN: And does size matter? Does it have to be big, ladies? I don't know. We have a definitive answer now from the pouty lips of one of the stars.

And who will be the next "American Idol"? The question that is burning inside the O'Brien household right now. You'll want to hear about a CNN exclusive. We introduce the world to one of the finalists.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, five hours and counting. Jurors are deliberating the fate of Terry Nichols in a case that could send the Oklahoma bombing conspirator to his death.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is awaiting a verdict outside the courthouse in McAlester, Oklahoma -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, Terry Nichols is already serving a life sentence on federal charges for his involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing. Those charges were involuntary manslaughter and conspiracy charges. There is no chance that he would ever get out of prison already. But prosecutors here in the state of Oklahoma wanted to try Terry Nichols on 161 counts of first-degree murder charges. And that's what we're waiting for, as the jury has been deliberating since 9:15 this morning Central time on those charges.

They have been deliberating since this morning. The only information we've had out of the jury room was this morning a note from the jury asking the judge for a dictionary. Read into that what you will. We're not exactly clear why they were asking for that. The judge denied that request. We understand that just a few moments ago, the jury has also sent out another note. We don't know what that says yet. So as soon as we find out, we can pass that along to you as well.

But here, the jury continues to deliberate. This trial lasted almost a month. More than 250 witnesses were called to the witness stand for the prosecution and the defense. Prosecution saying that it was Terry Nichols who was involved in masterminding in making and building the bomb that blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building back in 1995.

The defense attorneys, however, have been using the tactic of trying to throw out several different reasons as to who else might have been involved, defense attorneys saying there was actually other people involved and that Timothy McVeigh and other people were trying to set up Terry Nichols. But the prosecution saying that does not absolve Terry Nichols of any responsibility he might have had in this case.

And those are exactly the types of issues this jury is deliberating as they continue their deliberations. You remember back in 1997 when Terry Nichols was convicted on federal charges, that took that jury about a week to come back with its verdict then. So here we wait in McAlester, Oklahoma.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And we wait with you. Ed Lavandera from McAlester, Oklahoma, thank you.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a story that sounds like science fiction, but, as we often tell you, truth is often stranger than fiction. Doctors in Louisville, Kentucky, permission to perform a face transplant. It's never been done before, but surgical teams in London, Paris and Cleveland also would like to try. The procedure would transfer the face of a dead person to someone terribly disfigured.

Doctors say burn victims the most likely candidates.

Dina Kaplan of affiliate station WAVE spoke with a woman who cannot wait for the day she might replace her own face with someone else's.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DINA KAPLAN, WAVE REPORTER (voice-over): One crash with a drunk driver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the matter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got an emergency. I've got a car wreck.

KAPLAN: One night turned Jacqueline Saburido from a beautiful college student into a young woman even her beloved father called a monster.

JACQUELINE SABURIDO, BURN VICTIM: My life completely, completely, completely change.

KAPLAN: Jacqueline had moved from Venezuela to Austin, Texas, to study English. After the accident, her car burst into flames. Her hair and her face burned for 45 seconds. Before she was rescued, Jacqueline lost her nose, her lips, and her hair.

SABURIDO: We are working right now with a left eye and then we are going to work with the right eyes.

KAPLAN: Since then, she has had more than 40 surgeries. To be honest, she's lost count. Mostly, they have been on her eyes and her fingers. But those surgeries may be only laying the ground work.

SABURIDO: I would like to reinstruct my face now, my nose, my mouth, my ears, something like that, or a face transplant or something like that, you know.

KAPLAN: For Jacqueline, a face transplant sounds both enthralling and haunting because she wouldn't have the same face she grew up with.

SABURIDO: I think I'm not going to wear the same face. It's different, because it's like a suit, you know?

KAPLAN: But beyond building her vision, her hands, and possibly a new face, Jacqueline hopes to reconstruct her life. Her real goal is to fall in love and start a family. A face transplant could be a means to that end.

SABURIDO: I hope I can do soon, I hope, you know, because life is now. Otherwise, I will have to, you know, to think about it, my nose reconstruction and my lips and everything, because I want to live.

KAPLAN: A face transplant could be Jacqueline's best hope to lead the life she longs for. It would be the third face she presents to the world, but when you've lost so much, you have so much less to lose by taking a chance.

Dina Kaplan, WAVE 3 News. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's the geography desk over there. You just saw it. Are you familiar with the Pakistani territories or wind patterns? If not, don't waste your time going up against these whiz kids you're about to see who battled it out during the 16th annual National Geographic Bee in Washington.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX TREBEK, MODERATOR: Eric, what is the specific term that is used for the cold, dry prevailing winds that blow between 90 to 60 degrees north latitude and between 90 to 60 degrees south latitude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trade winds?

TREBEK: No, they are called the polar easterlies. We have three misses on the top row. We now have to break the tie. So, Matthew, you can relax for a little bit.

(LAUGHTER)

TREBEK: Corey (ph), Agadir, which was struck by a devastating earthquake in 1960, is on the Atlantic coast of what country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chile?

TREBEK: No. It's Morocco.

Well, at long last, ladies and gentlemen, we are down to two finalists, Matthew Wells and Andrew Wojtanik.

Peshawar, in the northwest part of Pacific important strategically because it's close to what historic pass?

Put your cards up.

Andrew, you wrote down the al Khyber Pass and Matthew wrote down the Lhakpa La Pass. The correct response is the Khyber Pass.

And that means that Andrew Wojtanik from Kansas, congratulations, young man. You are the 2004 -- stand up -- you are the 2004 National Geographic Bee champion. Well done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The Famous Khyber Pass. Good job. The 14-year-old prepared by compiling a massive book with all 193 countries in it. That alone should have won him some kind of prize, we think, but he actually got a $25,000 scholarship, lifetime membership, of course, to the National Geographic Society.

PHILLIPS: All right, well, checking entertainment headlines this Wednesday, Richard Simmons is free to resume sweating to the oldies. There he goes. The fitness guru got really exercised last March when a man made sport of him at the Phoenix Airport. Simmons slapped the man, who is 6'2'', 250-pound Ultimate Cage Fighter. Christopher Barney (ph) pressed assault charges, but has now dropped them, no explanation given.

HBO Films says no more "Sex," as in a feature version of "Sex and the City." Kim Cattrall seems to be the reason. According to Kim's publicist, she couldn't sign on due to scheduling issues. However, "Variety" magazine says money was involved. But the real bottom line, the movie's off, at least for now.

And it was off -- oh, my. It was an off night for Madge in L.A. Madonna had to scuttle her second Reinvention concert due to the stomach flu. But the show is reportedly on again for tonight.

Why does she always have to reinvent herself?

O'BRIEN: It's the key to longevity, right? I guess.

In the accepted reality show format, you have winners and you have losers, and a lot of mean things said between the two. But that's another story. But, in a new show, the biggest loser will be the winner. In NBC's "The Biggest Loser," overweight contestants move into a house together and try to lose weight with healthy dieting and exercise. That sounds like great television, doesn't it.

An it's all over now, but we won't know for several more hours if Diana DeGarmo is the winner of this season's "American Idol" or will it be Fantasia Barrino, claiming the highly sought-after prize? Millions tuned in last night. Millions cast their votes, Murrah (ph) and Connery (ph) O'Brien among them.

I don't know if I can stand the suspense much longer. Now, regardless of who walks away with the title, our Larry King wants to know what each finalists thinks of the "American Idol" competition. And we know you do, too, so Fantasia and Diana will both be his guests on Friday's show. That's a special "LARRY KING LIVE," 9:00 p.m. Eastern Friday right here on CNN.

Now, while millions of you cast votes for Diana DeGarmo last night, we here at LIVE FROM are proud to say we knew her when. Long before she captured your hearts, she showed her star power to CNN. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA DEGARMO, SINGER (singing): Now, back in 1876, a boy named Bill invented a contraption that we know so well. In the 1950s in everybody's home...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: I remember it well, that. But I didn't connect the dots until just today, because I'm kind of slow that way. But that is Diana DeGarmo seven years ago. She was still knee-high to a grasshopper appearing on the dearly departed "TALKBACK LIVE" program, hosted that day by one Miles O'Brien, who we are told saw Diana's talent immediately and predicted her success, right? Didn't he?

PHILLIPS: You just want 10 percent of her deal. That's what you...

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I'll take one percent of her deal, if I can get it.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All right, that wraps up this Wednesday edition of LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 26, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

Here's what's happening at this hour.

O'BRIEN: Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry says terrorists will never shut down the democracy or the ability to function in the United States. Kerry delivers a national security address tomorrow. He told reporters today the threat of terror is very real.

A federal appeals court orders the Bush administration to stay out of Oregon's assisted-suicide law. The court says the government cannot sanction or prosecute organ doctors for prescribing drug overdoses to terminally ill patients who ask for them.

And higher gas prices are hitting folks in the sky, United Airlines adding a $5 fuel surcharge to most passenger tickets. Some other air carriers have already added those charges.

PHILLIPS: Well, we begin this hour with clear and present dangers.

If you've been watching CNN, you saw Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller warn that al Qaeda is planning to hit America hard in the next few months. Officials don't know how, where or when, but they know of seven people who might and Americans everywhere are being urged to be on the lookout for each one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Want to know whether you've seen them in your communities or that someone might be hiding them, have any idea where they might be. We need you to come forward, whether it be here or overseas. And finally, finally, we ask you to simply be aware of your surroundings. Remain vigilant. Take note of any suspicious activities. And if you do observe anything suspicious, please contact your local police or your local FBI office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the feds believe that preparations for some sort of attack are anywhere from 70 to 90 percent complete. Potential targets range from political conventions to economic summits to subway stations and shopping malls.

Still, at least for now, the official U.S. threat level stands at code yellow, or elevated risk.

O'BRIEN: Since 9/11, the U.S. has rounded up hundreds of would- be terrorists, many of them thrown in jail, but never charged. It happened to Brandon Mayfield, supposedly because of a fingerprint that turned out not to be his.

CNN's Brian Todd has more on his case, start to finish.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A ridge, a dot, a spur, important features on a fingerprint that can make all the difference in nailing down a case. But in Brandon Mayfield's case, all the FBI's sophistication led the agency to the wrong man.

ROBERT JORDAN, FBI: The FBI regrets the hardships that this matter has placed upon Mr. Mayfield and his family.

TODD: How could the fingerprint evidence have been botched in this case? From near the wreckage of bombed-out trains in Madrid, Spanish agents lifted an unidentified latent fingerprint. That's one not visible to the latent eye. They transmitted a digital image of that print to the FBI.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The U.S. got the image of this print from the Spanish. They ran it through their -- supposedly the best system in the world right now, the IAFIS system.

TODD: IAFIS, or Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, a supercomputer that compares an unidentified print to a database of millions of known prints. From that comparison, IAFIS produce a short list of potential matches, usually between six and 12. These are based on what experts call points of identification or points of minutia, essentially, any similar characteristics between prints. That's where human fingerprint examiners come in, to try to match up the new print with those from the computer's short list.

In this case, FBI analysts made the link to Mayfield based on military and criminal prints of him on file and brought in an outside expert who verified it. But last week, Spanish investigators said the print matched that of an Algerian man. So the FBI sent a team to Spain to compare the digital image they had with the actual print. The result, disaster.

JORDAN: Upon review, it was determined that the FBI identification was based on an image of substandard quality.

TODD: We spoke to two forensic experts and a former FBI special agent in charge, who all say the reliance on partial latent fingerprints for matches is a mistake.

In the Mayfield case, the problem was compounded when the FBI first got only a digital image of a latent print. But critics point to other systemic problems.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE: The real issue is that there is an insufficient amount of attention and money spent toward fingerprints. We need national standards.

TODD: Responding to those points, an official with an FBI fingerprint unit told CNN they don't need standards for a number of identical characteristics to be matched because they look at the entire picture, all the shapes and ridges in a print. He said the agency's experts are put through two years of rigorous training and he's got no problem with the funding.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Scathing words for how the U.S. is waging the war on terror. The human rights group Amnesty International is releasing a blistering report leveling serious charges at the Bush administration.

Our Sean Callebs is combing through the details in Washington -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, plain and simple, the Amnesty International group says the Bush administration has lost its moral compass in the war on terrorism and that its policies have made the world less safe. Amnesty International cites the manner in which the U.S. military is pursuing the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying U.S. actions `have inflamed emotions around the globe.

The human rights group says the fight against terror has evolved into what it is calling a global street brawl. It says governments and armed groups like al Qaeda are -- quote -- "duking it out" and the civilians are the ones paying the price.

Now, much of the criticism leveled at the U.S. in the annual report that ended in December of 2003 focuses on the U.S.-led action in Iraq. It says hundreds of civilians were killed and thousands injured during fighting there last year. Amnesty International says thousands of other Iraqis have been arrested and detained without charges. The organization says a number of U.S. troops are facing court-martial for their actions at Abu Ghraib prison and that the U.S. must end its abuse of prisoners to regain the reputation of a country with a strong human rights record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM SCHULZ, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL USA: It is clear that the way in which the war on terror is being conducted today is not making us safer. To put it as simply as possible, it is, in fact, a failure. It is making the world more dangerous. And by relying on force alone, the U.S. government has sacrificed one of its major weapons in the struggle against terrorism, namely, its own reputation as an exemplar of human rights. There's no better example of this than the situation at Abu Ghraib. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: The group is also condemning al Qaeda in what it calls the strongest possible terms, calling it callous, cruel and criminal.

The human rights group points out, however, that the U.S. is adding credibility to armed organizations like al Qaeda by keeping prisoners from legal counsel and being kept in seclusion in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: From D.C., Sean Callebs, thanks.

O'BRIEN: All right, Kyra, I know you know the answer to this one. What is the highest peak in the highest peak in the Dolomites and where is it located?

PHILLIPS: Is this a trick question?

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: No, it's not a trick question. This is the reason we're not in the geography bee.

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: All right, whiz kids from the geography bee, who do know the Dolomites are and the highest elevation will be coming up on LIVE FROM.

And will there be a big-screen version of "Sex and the City."

PHILLIPS: I know that answer.

O'BRIEN: And does size matter? Does it have to be big, ladies? I don't know. We have a definitive answer now from the pouty lips of one of the stars.

And who will be the next "American Idol"? The question that is burning inside the O'Brien household right now. You'll want to hear about a CNN exclusive. We introduce the world to one of the finalists.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, five hours and counting. Jurors are deliberating the fate of Terry Nichols in a case that could send the Oklahoma bombing conspirator to his death.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is awaiting a verdict outside the courthouse in McAlester, Oklahoma -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, Terry Nichols is already serving a life sentence on federal charges for his involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing. Those charges were involuntary manslaughter and conspiracy charges. There is no chance that he would ever get out of prison already. But prosecutors here in the state of Oklahoma wanted to try Terry Nichols on 161 counts of first-degree murder charges. And that's what we're waiting for, as the jury has been deliberating since 9:15 this morning Central time on those charges.

They have been deliberating since this morning. The only information we've had out of the jury room was this morning a note from the jury asking the judge for a dictionary. Read into that what you will. We're not exactly clear why they were asking for that. The judge denied that request. We understand that just a few moments ago, the jury has also sent out another note. We don't know what that says yet. So as soon as we find out, we can pass that along to you as well.

But here, the jury continues to deliberate. This trial lasted almost a month. More than 250 witnesses were called to the witness stand for the prosecution and the defense. Prosecution saying that it was Terry Nichols who was involved in masterminding in making and building the bomb that blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building back in 1995.

The defense attorneys, however, have been using the tactic of trying to throw out several different reasons as to who else might have been involved, defense attorneys saying there was actually other people involved and that Timothy McVeigh and other people were trying to set up Terry Nichols. But the prosecution saying that does not absolve Terry Nichols of any responsibility he might have had in this case.

And those are exactly the types of issues this jury is deliberating as they continue their deliberations. You remember back in 1997 when Terry Nichols was convicted on federal charges, that took that jury about a week to come back with its verdict then. So here we wait in McAlester, Oklahoma.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And we wait with you. Ed Lavandera from McAlester, Oklahoma, thank you.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a story that sounds like science fiction, but, as we often tell you, truth is often stranger than fiction. Doctors in Louisville, Kentucky, permission to perform a face transplant. It's never been done before, but surgical teams in London, Paris and Cleveland also would like to try. The procedure would transfer the face of a dead person to someone terribly disfigured.

Doctors say burn victims the most likely candidates.

Dina Kaplan of affiliate station WAVE spoke with a woman who cannot wait for the day she might replace her own face with someone else's.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DINA KAPLAN, WAVE REPORTER (voice-over): One crash with a drunk driver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the matter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got an emergency. I've got a car wreck.

KAPLAN: One night turned Jacqueline Saburido from a beautiful college student into a young woman even her beloved father called a monster.

JACQUELINE SABURIDO, BURN VICTIM: My life completely, completely, completely change.

KAPLAN: Jacqueline had moved from Venezuela to Austin, Texas, to study English. After the accident, her car burst into flames. Her hair and her face burned for 45 seconds. Before she was rescued, Jacqueline lost her nose, her lips, and her hair.

SABURIDO: We are working right now with a left eye and then we are going to work with the right eyes.

KAPLAN: Since then, she has had more than 40 surgeries. To be honest, she's lost count. Mostly, they have been on her eyes and her fingers. But those surgeries may be only laying the ground work.

SABURIDO: I would like to reinstruct my face now, my nose, my mouth, my ears, something like that, or a face transplant or something like that, you know.

KAPLAN: For Jacqueline, a face transplant sounds both enthralling and haunting because she wouldn't have the same face she grew up with.

SABURIDO: I think I'm not going to wear the same face. It's different, because it's like a suit, you know?

KAPLAN: But beyond building her vision, her hands, and possibly a new face, Jacqueline hopes to reconstruct her life. Her real goal is to fall in love and start a family. A face transplant could be a means to that end.

SABURIDO: I hope I can do soon, I hope, you know, because life is now. Otherwise, I will have to, you know, to think about it, my nose reconstruction and my lips and everything, because I want to live.

KAPLAN: A face transplant could be Jacqueline's best hope to lead the life she longs for. It would be the third face she presents to the world, but when you've lost so much, you have so much less to lose by taking a chance.

Dina Kaplan, WAVE 3 News. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's the geography desk over there. You just saw it. Are you familiar with the Pakistani territories or wind patterns? If not, don't waste your time going up against these whiz kids you're about to see who battled it out during the 16th annual National Geographic Bee in Washington.

Let's listen.

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ALEX TREBEK, MODERATOR: Eric, what is the specific term that is used for the cold, dry prevailing winds that blow between 90 to 60 degrees north latitude and between 90 to 60 degrees south latitude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trade winds?

TREBEK: No, they are called the polar easterlies. We have three misses on the top row. We now have to break the tie. So, Matthew, you can relax for a little bit.

(LAUGHTER)

TREBEK: Corey (ph), Agadir, which was struck by a devastating earthquake in 1960, is on the Atlantic coast of what country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chile?

TREBEK: No. It's Morocco.

Well, at long last, ladies and gentlemen, we are down to two finalists, Matthew Wells and Andrew Wojtanik.

Peshawar, in the northwest part of Pacific important strategically because it's close to what historic pass?

Put your cards up.

Andrew, you wrote down the al Khyber Pass and Matthew wrote down the Lhakpa La Pass. The correct response is the Khyber Pass.

And that means that Andrew Wojtanik from Kansas, congratulations, young man. You are the 2004 -- stand up -- you are the 2004 National Geographic Bee champion. Well done.

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O'BRIEN: The Famous Khyber Pass. Good job. The 14-year-old prepared by compiling a massive book with all 193 countries in it. That alone should have won him some kind of prize, we think, but he actually got a $25,000 scholarship, lifetime membership, of course, to the National Geographic Society.

PHILLIPS: All right, well, checking entertainment headlines this Wednesday, Richard Simmons is free to resume sweating to the oldies. There he goes. The fitness guru got really exercised last March when a man made sport of him at the Phoenix Airport. Simmons slapped the man, who is 6'2'', 250-pound Ultimate Cage Fighter. Christopher Barney (ph) pressed assault charges, but has now dropped them, no explanation given.

HBO Films says no more "Sex," as in a feature version of "Sex and the City." Kim Cattrall seems to be the reason. According to Kim's publicist, she couldn't sign on due to scheduling issues. However, "Variety" magazine says money was involved. But the real bottom line, the movie's off, at least for now.

And it was off -- oh, my. It was an off night for Madge in L.A. Madonna had to scuttle her second Reinvention concert due to the stomach flu. But the show is reportedly on again for tonight.

Why does she always have to reinvent herself?

O'BRIEN: It's the key to longevity, right? I guess.

In the accepted reality show format, you have winners and you have losers, and a lot of mean things said between the two. But that's another story. But, in a new show, the biggest loser will be the winner. In NBC's "The Biggest Loser," overweight contestants move into a house together and try to lose weight with healthy dieting and exercise. That sounds like great television, doesn't it.

An it's all over now, but we won't know for several more hours if Diana DeGarmo is the winner of this season's "American Idol" or will it be Fantasia Barrino, claiming the highly sought-after prize? Millions tuned in last night. Millions cast their votes, Murrah (ph) and Connery (ph) O'Brien among them.

I don't know if I can stand the suspense much longer. Now, regardless of who walks away with the title, our Larry King wants to know what each finalists thinks of the "American Idol" competition. And we know you do, too, so Fantasia and Diana will both be his guests on Friday's show. That's a special "LARRY KING LIVE," 9:00 p.m. Eastern Friday right here on CNN.

Now, while millions of you cast votes for Diana DeGarmo last night, we here at LIVE FROM are proud to say we knew her when. Long before she captured your hearts, she showed her star power to CNN. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA DEGARMO, SINGER (singing): Now, back in 1876, a boy named Bill invented a contraption that we know so well. In the 1950s in everybody's home...

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O'BRIEN: I remember it well, that. But I didn't connect the dots until just today, because I'm kind of slow that way. But that is Diana DeGarmo seven years ago. She was still knee-high to a grasshopper appearing on the dearly departed "TALKBACK LIVE" program, hosted that day by one Miles O'Brien, who we are told saw Diana's talent immediately and predicted her success, right? Didn't he?

PHILLIPS: You just want 10 percent of her deal. That's what you...

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I'll take one percent of her deal, if I can get it.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All right, that wraps up this Wednesday edition of LIVE FROM.

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