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Scott Peterson Jury Selected; E-mail Return Receipt?

Aired May 27, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Miles O'Brien. Here's what is happening this hour.

The hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq may have yielded a couple of shells with mustard gas. U.S. officials say two artillery shells are being checked now by the Iraq survey group. Authorities suspect they may have what they call trace elements of mustard gas. The shells and one found earlier containing sarin are believed to be from old Iraqi arsenals.

An Iraqi Governing Council member has reportedly survived an ambush attack on her convoy. Salama al-Khafaji was on her way back to Baghdad from Najaf when her convoy came under fire. Another member of the Governing Council telling CNN four in the convoy were killed, but we are told al-Khafaji survived. We'll update this story as soon as we get some more information for you.

PHILLIPS: We have a jury. No, we don't. Yes, we do. Another confusing day in the Scott Peterson murder case.

CNN's Ted Rowlands helps us sort it out from the courthouse in Redwood City, California -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, it is over now.

Six men and six women will start on this 12-person jury to decide the fate of Scott Peterson when opening statements begin next Tuesday morning at 9:00 Pacific time. The jury selection process was fairly quick until there was a bit of a wrinkle. It was about a half-hour long, with both sides eliminating jurors one by one. And then, at the end, the defense had the last opportunity to either pass or bump another juror.

And Mark Geragos looked at Scott Peterson. He gave the nod. And they said they were OK with the jury. They then filled the six alternate spots until juror No. 9 raised his hand and said he couldn't serve. He said he had to work and even had a letter. Why he waited so long, we don't know. But the judge looked at the letter and they excused juror No. 9 and then replaced that individual.

Here's what juror No. 9 said after court was out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RON HELLPAP, DISMISSED JUROR: Yes, I was chosen as a juror in the final pool. And I raised my hand and told the judge that I needed to be excused due to hardship because of my employer not affording -- being able to afford the five months the trial will take. And, therefore, he read the letter over and then considered that it would be a burden for me, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROWLANDS: A bit of a confusing time this morning, but it's been ironed out and opening statements will begin next Tuesday. There's a bit of a law enforcement bent to this jury. Three individuals have a connection. There's a former cop, a security guard, and there's also a firefighter on this jury, people that you might typically think the defense wouldn't want. But they are on and the defense gave them the OK.

After the jury left, the judge also ruled on a couple issues, one, specifically, he is going to allow the defense to use Diana Jackson (ph). This is a woman who was hypnotized, typically not allowed in a trial, but the defense asked the judge if they could use some of her prehypnotic, if you will, statements and the judge said OK. So a win there for the defense. They will begin, as I said, opening statements in this much anticipated case on Tuesday morning -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ted Rowlands, thanks.

Well, off the pulpit, onto the streets, now at a jail and potentially a U.S. prison. London-based Abu Hamza al-Masri is out of circulation today while the Bush administration tries to extradite him on charges of aiding al Qaeda, taking part in a deadly kidnapping, and trying to set up a terror camp in Oregon. British police arrested Abu Hamza just hours before a U.S. indictment was unsealed and spelled out by the U.S. attorney general.

John Ashcroft noted the charges carry the possibility of a death sentence, but it will likely be waived in light of longstanding European opposition.

O'BRIEN: John Kerry touting his national security policy in a speech today in Seattle. The presumed Democratic presidential nominee says he plans to build alliances to keep the nation safe. Kerry also had a message for the terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I have a message today for al Qaeda and for any terrorists who may be harboring these illusions. We may have an election here in America, but let there be no doubt, this country is united in its determination to defeat terrorism. And we...

(APPLAUSE)

KERRY: And we will never be deterred in our exercise of democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Kerry plans to outline his security policy in speeches over the next 10 days.

PHILLIPS: Despite tougher security policies of the Bush administration, terror threats still exist. The government is warning of a possible al Qaeda strike on this homeland this summer. So is the nation safer than before September 11?

I spoke earlier with CNN military analyst Ken Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think it's hard to measure are we safer because terrorists get a vote. They get to plan the time and the location and the nature of the attack, and it's hard for us to anticipate from the multiple types of options they have.

But the nation is most certainly more prepared. It has done an enormous amount of planning since 9/11, since the lessons learned from 9/11, the 9/11 Commission, and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. There's a multitude of new programs that are out there that we can talk about.

PHILLIPS: Well, you gave me a lot of homework to study last night with regard to homeland security. We can't hit all of it, but let's knock off five very important points. We've talked about border and transportation security, big improvements there.

Critical infrastructure. When we think of the twin towers, of course, we think of this and how something like that is being prevented. Let's talk more about that.

ROBINSON: Well, critical infrastructure, a lot of times, it's not just something that it belongs to the government. There's a shared responsibility with banking industry, with the insurance industry, with transportation, with water purification.

So it involves state, local leaders. It involves commercial entities. And so the United States government has created a lot of programs by which they help those entities prepare for a catastrophic event and they share information with them to try to provide warning for them in the event of heightened security.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of following the money trail and where the money has gone, the most money has gone into chemical and biological threats. You called this high impact, low probability. Why has the most money gone into this area?

ROBINSON: Well, they've spent about $8.2 billion in training state and local leaders and providing equipment for chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and high-explosive training, to give them equipment, to give them command-and-control procedures, to provide exercises for them.

And what that does is, that enables the cities, because all terrorism is local, to prepare for these events and to be able to have the command-and-control to mitigate the activity, to mitigate the results of it. It doesn't necessarily prevent, but it prepares them to be able to take care of citizens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you've ever wondered if someone read your e- mail, now you have a way to find out. But some say a new e-mail attachment gives away a little too much information. We'll click on that somewhat warily just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Do you ever feel like you're being watched, Daniel Sieberg?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: All the times, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Every time I sit out here, I have the funny sense that people are watching me.

SIEBERG: Like there are cameras somewhere.

O'BRIEN: Yes, there are cameras everywhere.

SIEBERG: It's so weird.

O'BRIEN: And sometimes I have that feeling when I send e-mails and when I receive them, more importantly.

SIEBERG: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Tell us about this, how they're, well, Orwellian.

SIEBERG: Correct. It is a little Orwellian, a little creepy to some people. It was launched this week. I know you've probably heard the excuse a hundred times from your boss or a client or a friend, or, Miles, gosh, I never got your e-mail. Truth or fiction?

Well, so many of us deal with an absolute avalanche of e-mail, a lot of legitimate ones get deleted or zapped by spam filters. But this week, Rampell Software launched a product they called DidTheyReadIt.com. That's a way to find out if a recipient has read what you wrote. A small tag or Web bug is added to your outgoing message. And when the e-mail is opened, Rampell servers are notified.

That way, subscribers can then check when their message was read, how long it was opened. And in many cases, they can also find out what city the e-mail was read. I think we just gave out my e-mail address there. Some privacy experts have raised concerns that this software is, well, as Miles pointed out, a little Orwellian and creepy. But Alex Rampell says the product simply fixes a gap in e-mail technology. We have a little quote from what he told us. He said that: "Everything else we rely on, we have a means of knowing whether a person got your message. When I call you, I hear your voice. I know you got the message. With the U.S. mail, you can get a return receipt. But, with e-mail, there's no means of knowing. What I think is astounding is, this is the 21st century and e-mail is less reliable than the U.S. mail" -- a debatable claim.

But subscriptions to DidTheyReadIt.com are $50 a year. And you can test 10 messages for free. So you get to try it out and see how it works.

O'BRIEN: So many issues to contend with. First of all, that is allegedly the legitimate reason for doing it, so you have no more plausible deniability. Oh, no, the spam catcher caught it, for example.

(CROSSTALK)

SIEBERG: Right. Right. Exactly.

And that's sort of the big reason. For example, if you're sending a resume to a company and you want to know whether the person got it, whether they received it and whether you need to follow up on it, that's one possible use for this type of software. Of course, people are undoubtedly going to use it to spy on one another, see whether or not somebody got a certain message, see if it's been forwarded around to somebody else.

They do try and make it as easy as possible to use it, of course, so whether it's abuse or not maybe is in the hands of the user.

O'BRIEN: How does one guard against this? Or how do you even know?

SIEBERG: You don't.

O'BRIEN: It would be transparent to you as an e-mail comes into your machine with essentially a little ticking time bomb in there if you care about your privacy.

(CROSSTALK)

SIEBERG: Right.

You don't know as the receiver of the e-mail. You don't know if someone has tracked it to you and whether or not they're following you and seeing whether you read it or not.

It looks just like it came from that person's e-mail address. When the sender wants to send an e-mail address with DidTheyReadIt.com, they need to go to DidTheyReadIt.com site, log on, and send your e-mail from there. But it looks like it came from that address. So it's very seamless. It's invisible to the person who receives it. So it's very surreptitious that way. O'BRIEN: And this is purported to be new, but there are aspects of, say, Outlook that have this capability. AOL already has it.

SIEBERG: Right.

O'BRIEN: So, to a certain extent, we've experienced this. Do you think there will be a big backlash. Is this going to be like spam, where there will some filters that will go up, then somebody will come up with some way of catching this thing?

SIEBERG: I think there could be. There's already a little bit of backlash, if you could put it that way, people a little bit nervous about this and how it could be used and where it could get around.

You're right. Outlook, Microsoft's Outlook, already has this capability, generally internally, though, and the same with AOL users. It's not like it can be anywhere in the world. But, in this case, with DidTheyReadIt.com, it could be anywhere in the world that you're trying to track down this message. And, in fact, it does bring up a map even of where the person is, where the server is that the person read it, so you can find out where they were. So it's a lot of interesting capabilities here.

O'BRIEN: And whether they were drinking a latte while they were doing it.

SIEBERG: Yes, right. Or something else.

O'BRIEN: See, it's a slippery slope, I think, Daniel Sieberg.

SIEBERG: It is. I'm going to be tracking my e-mails to you, Miles, and see if you actually read them, like you claim to.

O'BRIEN: Oh.

SIEBERG: Like you claim to.

O'BRIEN: It's the spam catcher. It's the spam catcher.

SIEBERG: That's right.

PHILLIPS: I see him reading your e-mails all the time.

SIEBERG: Oh, sure.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Technology God, Daniel Sieberg.

SIEBERG: Delete, delete, delete, delete.

O'BRIEN: Delete, delete. All right, we'll see you later.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Are you way over the reality TV trend? Do you think such shows are about as exciting as watching paint dry? Well, wait until you hear about this.

A British home improvement network is launching "Watching Paint Dry" on its Web site. They're billing it as the ultimate reality show and will allow interested parties to vote each week for their favorite gloss, satin or matte paint, with the loser being voted off each week. A spokesperson says that every other reality show is full of boring drips, so we thought we'd go one step further.

O'BRIEN: Huge sighs of relief at the O'Brien household last night. "American Idol" finally reached its zenith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The winner of "American Idol" 2004 is Fantasia Barrino.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: I told the kids that she had won by two votes, their two votes. They bought that for about five seconds.

Anyway, there were cheers, there were tears and Fantasia said she almost lot a shoe amid all the excitement. Egads. It would be only fitting for pop music's newest Cinderella, of course.

But what comes next in her fairy tell? Christopher Farley, a senior editor for "TIME" magazine, joining us from New York to talk about it.

What did you think of the show, Chris?

CHRISTOPHER FARLEY, SENIOR EDITOR, "TIME": Well, I think "American Idol" is on those contests you want to place in, but you don't necessarily want to win, because the winner has to sing that awful song like a couple times a week for the next several years.

And people who haven't won have actually done pretty well for themselves. But Clay Aiken of course finished second, has sold over 2.7 million copies of his second. William Hung, he didn't even make the competition and he's been selling records left and right. So you almost don't want to win, so then you can be your own person.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. Yes, you're not hemmed in quite as much and of course you get really an equal amount of attention, because the final two is it.

Let's go through Fantasia, just to sum this up, because we're going to kind of go through a scorecard here of the recent winners or also-rans in all of this. Fantasia, you think, bottom line, thumbs up on her? FARLEY: Fantasia is a terrific singer. The version she did of "Summertime" was one of the better TV performances I've ever seen. And it was really quite well done. And she even turned the terrible single into something that was really worth seeing. She sings with a lot of emotion. And then she has a fine voice and it's a distinctive voice, not just a powerful one.

O'BRIEN: All right, thumbs up, we give her.

All right, Diana DeGarmo, the runner-up this go-round, where do you put her? Does she have a bright career ahead of her, you think?

FARLEY: I think needs more seasoning.

You know, they're always saying NBA players shouldn't make the jump to the NBA when they're still like in high school. Well, I think in her case, she's not really ready for the leap to the major leagues. She may turn into something. Maybe she will be the next Kevin Garnett of song, but she needs really to -- she really needs to hone her voice a little bit more.

O'BRIEN: Now, it looks like there we have her hitchhiking. That really means just a sideways neutral thumb, OK? We're not telling her to get a ride.

OK, now, from past "Idol" shows, Justin, another one of those that a lot of people liked. His situation, he kind of tanked, didn't he?

FARLEY: Well, Justin Guarini is a sign that fame is fleeting. He is a guy who finished second to Kelly Clarkson. People thought, well, he's going to have a career, too.

But he got dropped by his record label. His record went nowhere. People made fun of his hairstyle his clothes, his voice, his attitude. And right now, he's searching to get back into being a star again. Didn't quite make it with the American people.

O'BRIEN: Thumbs down for Justin.

All right, and you mentioned Kelly. Kelly was in that same grouping, right, wasn't she? Tell me about her. What do you think?

FARLEY: Yes, Kelly Clarkson is doing all right for herself. She is a pretty good singer. She has a good media personality. Her record sold two million copies. So that's a pretty solid start, credential there. She's doing all right for herself.

O'BRIEN: And so you would give her what? Thumbs up, then?

(CROSSTALK)

FARLEY: I would give her a qualified thumbs up. I wouldn't see her in concert. I wouldn't buy her record, but I won't turn the TV off if she's on singing. O'BRIEN: All right, and then we got a bunch of e-mails, and just avalanche of e-mails for Clay, Clay Aiken. Tell me what your thoughts are on Clay.

FARLEY: Well, Clay Aiken is another sign that people like an underdog. This is the guy that finished second. This is the guy that didn't win. And America really embraced him.

His record, first week out, sold more than 600,000 copies. People ran out and got it. He's still out there filling up venues. People are going to see him and he's turned himself into a legitimate star, where it looked like he was only going to be sort of a novelty act. So I think he'll do well for himself. His voice doesn't work for me, but it works for a lot of teenagers out there.

O'BRIEN: Big thumbs up.

And I'm going to skip and let's go right to my favorite one, the "She bangs, she bangs" guy. Is it Richard Hung, Richard Hung?

FARLEY: William Hung.

O'BRIEN: William Hung. This is my kids' favorite. Now, he, of course, has no talent whatsoever, but just really is a lot of fun to watch, isn't he?

FARLEY: No talent at all. But he has talent as an academic. The guy went to Berkeley, so he has talent there. Clearly, as a singer, people embrace him because he has a good altitude about things. He knows maybe -- audiences love him, that he's going to go out there, do what he loves anyway, and people can deal with it. So you've got to respect that, even if you don't want to like it.

O'BRIEN: All right, big thumbs up for him. Certainly, relative to his standing in the competition, I would guess he gets the biggest thumbs up.

FARLEY: Well, not really a thumbs up, maybe a big toe up for him. I wouldn't actually give him an actual digit of my hand.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That would mean he would be dead if his toes were up.

(CROSSTALK)

FARLEY: That may go too far.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Farley, thanks very much for your time. Appreciate it for your assessment of "American Idol."

FARLEY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We got a bunch of e-mails. I just ran out of time because I wanted to talk about William Hung.

Bottom line is, everybody out there loves Clay Aiken, OK? Just tons of e-mail saying, we love Clay Aiken.

Now, as the stardust settles on this season of "American Idol," join CNN's Larry King as he sits down with both Fantasia and Diana tomorrow at 9:00 Eastern.

And that wraps up this Thursday edition of LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 27, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Miles O'Brien. Here's what is happening this hour.

The hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq may have yielded a couple of shells with mustard gas. U.S. officials say two artillery shells are being checked now by the Iraq survey group. Authorities suspect they may have what they call trace elements of mustard gas. The shells and one found earlier containing sarin are believed to be from old Iraqi arsenals.

An Iraqi Governing Council member has reportedly survived an ambush attack on her convoy. Salama al-Khafaji was on her way back to Baghdad from Najaf when her convoy came under fire. Another member of the Governing Council telling CNN four in the convoy were killed, but we are told al-Khafaji survived. We'll update this story as soon as we get some more information for you.

PHILLIPS: We have a jury. No, we don't. Yes, we do. Another confusing day in the Scott Peterson murder case.

CNN's Ted Rowlands helps us sort it out from the courthouse in Redwood City, California -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, it is over now.

Six men and six women will start on this 12-person jury to decide the fate of Scott Peterson when opening statements begin next Tuesday morning at 9:00 Pacific time. The jury selection process was fairly quick until there was a bit of a wrinkle. It was about a half-hour long, with both sides eliminating jurors one by one. And then, at the end, the defense had the last opportunity to either pass or bump another juror.

And Mark Geragos looked at Scott Peterson. He gave the nod. And they said they were OK with the jury. They then filled the six alternate spots until juror No. 9 raised his hand and said he couldn't serve. He said he had to work and even had a letter. Why he waited so long, we don't know. But the judge looked at the letter and they excused juror No. 9 and then replaced that individual.

Here's what juror No. 9 said after court was out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RON HELLPAP, DISMISSED JUROR: Yes, I was chosen as a juror in the final pool. And I raised my hand and told the judge that I needed to be excused due to hardship because of my employer not affording -- being able to afford the five months the trial will take. And, therefore, he read the letter over and then considered that it would be a burden for me, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROWLANDS: A bit of a confusing time this morning, but it's been ironed out and opening statements will begin next Tuesday. There's a bit of a law enforcement bent to this jury. Three individuals have a connection. There's a former cop, a security guard, and there's also a firefighter on this jury, people that you might typically think the defense wouldn't want. But they are on and the defense gave them the OK.

After the jury left, the judge also ruled on a couple issues, one, specifically, he is going to allow the defense to use Diana Jackson (ph). This is a woman who was hypnotized, typically not allowed in a trial, but the defense asked the judge if they could use some of her prehypnotic, if you will, statements and the judge said OK. So a win there for the defense. They will begin, as I said, opening statements in this much anticipated case on Tuesday morning -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ted Rowlands, thanks.

Well, off the pulpit, onto the streets, now at a jail and potentially a U.S. prison. London-based Abu Hamza al-Masri is out of circulation today while the Bush administration tries to extradite him on charges of aiding al Qaeda, taking part in a deadly kidnapping, and trying to set up a terror camp in Oregon. British police arrested Abu Hamza just hours before a U.S. indictment was unsealed and spelled out by the U.S. attorney general.

John Ashcroft noted the charges carry the possibility of a death sentence, but it will likely be waived in light of longstanding European opposition.

O'BRIEN: John Kerry touting his national security policy in a speech today in Seattle. The presumed Democratic presidential nominee says he plans to build alliances to keep the nation safe. Kerry also had a message for the terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I have a message today for al Qaeda and for any terrorists who may be harboring these illusions. We may have an election here in America, but let there be no doubt, this country is united in its determination to defeat terrorism. And we...

(APPLAUSE)

KERRY: And we will never be deterred in our exercise of democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Kerry plans to outline his security policy in speeches over the next 10 days.

PHILLIPS: Despite tougher security policies of the Bush administration, terror threats still exist. The government is warning of a possible al Qaeda strike on this homeland this summer. So is the nation safer than before September 11?

I spoke earlier with CNN military analyst Ken Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think it's hard to measure are we safer because terrorists get a vote. They get to plan the time and the location and the nature of the attack, and it's hard for us to anticipate from the multiple types of options they have.

But the nation is most certainly more prepared. It has done an enormous amount of planning since 9/11, since the lessons learned from 9/11, the 9/11 Commission, and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. There's a multitude of new programs that are out there that we can talk about.

PHILLIPS: Well, you gave me a lot of homework to study last night with regard to homeland security. We can't hit all of it, but let's knock off five very important points. We've talked about border and transportation security, big improvements there.

Critical infrastructure. When we think of the twin towers, of course, we think of this and how something like that is being prevented. Let's talk more about that.

ROBINSON: Well, critical infrastructure, a lot of times, it's not just something that it belongs to the government. There's a shared responsibility with banking industry, with the insurance industry, with transportation, with water purification.

So it involves state, local leaders. It involves commercial entities. And so the United States government has created a lot of programs by which they help those entities prepare for a catastrophic event and they share information with them to try to provide warning for them in the event of heightened security.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of following the money trail and where the money has gone, the most money has gone into chemical and biological threats. You called this high impact, low probability. Why has the most money gone into this area?

ROBINSON: Well, they've spent about $8.2 billion in training state and local leaders and providing equipment for chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and high-explosive training, to give them equipment, to give them command-and-control procedures, to provide exercises for them.

And what that does is, that enables the cities, because all terrorism is local, to prepare for these events and to be able to have the command-and-control to mitigate the activity, to mitigate the results of it. It doesn't necessarily prevent, but it prepares them to be able to take care of citizens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you've ever wondered if someone read your e- mail, now you have a way to find out. But some say a new e-mail attachment gives away a little too much information. We'll click on that somewhat warily just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Do you ever feel like you're being watched, Daniel Sieberg?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: All the times, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Every time I sit out here, I have the funny sense that people are watching me.

SIEBERG: Like there are cameras somewhere.

O'BRIEN: Yes, there are cameras everywhere.

SIEBERG: It's so weird.

O'BRIEN: And sometimes I have that feeling when I send e-mails and when I receive them, more importantly.

SIEBERG: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Tell us about this, how they're, well, Orwellian.

SIEBERG: Correct. It is a little Orwellian, a little creepy to some people. It was launched this week. I know you've probably heard the excuse a hundred times from your boss or a client or a friend, or, Miles, gosh, I never got your e-mail. Truth or fiction?

Well, so many of us deal with an absolute avalanche of e-mail, a lot of legitimate ones get deleted or zapped by spam filters. But this week, Rampell Software launched a product they called DidTheyReadIt.com. That's a way to find out if a recipient has read what you wrote. A small tag or Web bug is added to your outgoing message. And when the e-mail is opened, Rampell servers are notified.

That way, subscribers can then check when their message was read, how long it was opened. And in many cases, they can also find out what city the e-mail was read. I think we just gave out my e-mail address there. Some privacy experts have raised concerns that this software is, well, as Miles pointed out, a little Orwellian and creepy. But Alex Rampell says the product simply fixes a gap in e-mail technology. We have a little quote from what he told us. He said that: "Everything else we rely on, we have a means of knowing whether a person got your message. When I call you, I hear your voice. I know you got the message. With the U.S. mail, you can get a return receipt. But, with e-mail, there's no means of knowing. What I think is astounding is, this is the 21st century and e-mail is less reliable than the U.S. mail" -- a debatable claim.

But subscriptions to DidTheyReadIt.com are $50 a year. And you can test 10 messages for free. So you get to try it out and see how it works.

O'BRIEN: So many issues to contend with. First of all, that is allegedly the legitimate reason for doing it, so you have no more plausible deniability. Oh, no, the spam catcher caught it, for example.

(CROSSTALK)

SIEBERG: Right. Right. Exactly.

And that's sort of the big reason. For example, if you're sending a resume to a company and you want to know whether the person got it, whether they received it and whether you need to follow up on it, that's one possible use for this type of software. Of course, people are undoubtedly going to use it to spy on one another, see whether or not somebody got a certain message, see if it's been forwarded around to somebody else.

They do try and make it as easy as possible to use it, of course, so whether it's abuse or not maybe is in the hands of the user.

O'BRIEN: How does one guard against this? Or how do you even know?

SIEBERG: You don't.

O'BRIEN: It would be transparent to you as an e-mail comes into your machine with essentially a little ticking time bomb in there if you care about your privacy.

(CROSSTALK)

SIEBERG: Right.

You don't know as the receiver of the e-mail. You don't know if someone has tracked it to you and whether or not they're following you and seeing whether you read it or not.

It looks just like it came from that person's e-mail address. When the sender wants to send an e-mail address with DidTheyReadIt.com, they need to go to DidTheyReadIt.com site, log on, and send your e-mail from there. But it looks like it came from that address. So it's very seamless. It's invisible to the person who receives it. So it's very surreptitious that way. O'BRIEN: And this is purported to be new, but there are aspects of, say, Outlook that have this capability. AOL already has it.

SIEBERG: Right.

O'BRIEN: So, to a certain extent, we've experienced this. Do you think there will be a big backlash. Is this going to be like spam, where there will some filters that will go up, then somebody will come up with some way of catching this thing?

SIEBERG: I think there could be. There's already a little bit of backlash, if you could put it that way, people a little bit nervous about this and how it could be used and where it could get around.

You're right. Outlook, Microsoft's Outlook, already has this capability, generally internally, though, and the same with AOL users. It's not like it can be anywhere in the world. But, in this case, with DidTheyReadIt.com, it could be anywhere in the world that you're trying to track down this message. And, in fact, it does bring up a map even of where the person is, where the server is that the person read it, so you can find out where they were. So it's a lot of interesting capabilities here.

O'BRIEN: And whether they were drinking a latte while they were doing it.

SIEBERG: Yes, right. Or something else.

O'BRIEN: See, it's a slippery slope, I think, Daniel Sieberg.

SIEBERG: It is. I'm going to be tracking my e-mails to you, Miles, and see if you actually read them, like you claim to.

O'BRIEN: Oh.

SIEBERG: Like you claim to.

O'BRIEN: It's the spam catcher. It's the spam catcher.

SIEBERG: That's right.

PHILLIPS: I see him reading your e-mails all the time.

SIEBERG: Oh, sure.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Technology God, Daniel Sieberg.

SIEBERG: Delete, delete, delete, delete.

O'BRIEN: Delete, delete. All right, we'll see you later.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Are you way over the reality TV trend? Do you think such shows are about as exciting as watching paint dry? Well, wait until you hear about this.

A British home improvement network is launching "Watching Paint Dry" on its Web site. They're billing it as the ultimate reality show and will allow interested parties to vote each week for their favorite gloss, satin or matte paint, with the loser being voted off each week. A spokesperson says that every other reality show is full of boring drips, so we thought we'd go one step further.

O'BRIEN: Huge sighs of relief at the O'Brien household last night. "American Idol" finally reached its zenith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The winner of "American Idol" 2004 is Fantasia Barrino.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: I told the kids that she had won by two votes, their two votes. They bought that for about five seconds.

Anyway, there were cheers, there were tears and Fantasia said she almost lot a shoe amid all the excitement. Egads. It would be only fitting for pop music's newest Cinderella, of course.

But what comes next in her fairy tell? Christopher Farley, a senior editor for "TIME" magazine, joining us from New York to talk about it.

What did you think of the show, Chris?

CHRISTOPHER FARLEY, SENIOR EDITOR, "TIME": Well, I think "American Idol" is on those contests you want to place in, but you don't necessarily want to win, because the winner has to sing that awful song like a couple times a week for the next several years.

And people who haven't won have actually done pretty well for themselves. But Clay Aiken of course finished second, has sold over 2.7 million copies of his second. William Hung, he didn't even make the competition and he's been selling records left and right. So you almost don't want to win, so then you can be your own person.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. Yes, you're not hemmed in quite as much and of course you get really an equal amount of attention, because the final two is it.

Let's go through Fantasia, just to sum this up, because we're going to kind of go through a scorecard here of the recent winners or also-rans in all of this. Fantasia, you think, bottom line, thumbs up on her? FARLEY: Fantasia is a terrific singer. The version she did of "Summertime" was one of the better TV performances I've ever seen. And it was really quite well done. And she even turned the terrible single into something that was really worth seeing. She sings with a lot of emotion. And then she has a fine voice and it's a distinctive voice, not just a powerful one.

O'BRIEN: All right, thumbs up, we give her.

All right, Diana DeGarmo, the runner-up this go-round, where do you put her? Does she have a bright career ahead of her, you think?

FARLEY: I think needs more seasoning.

You know, they're always saying NBA players shouldn't make the jump to the NBA when they're still like in high school. Well, I think in her case, she's not really ready for the leap to the major leagues. She may turn into something. Maybe she will be the next Kevin Garnett of song, but she needs really to -- she really needs to hone her voice a little bit more.

O'BRIEN: Now, it looks like there we have her hitchhiking. That really means just a sideways neutral thumb, OK? We're not telling her to get a ride.

OK, now, from past "Idol" shows, Justin, another one of those that a lot of people liked. His situation, he kind of tanked, didn't he?

FARLEY: Well, Justin Guarini is a sign that fame is fleeting. He is a guy who finished second to Kelly Clarkson. People thought, well, he's going to have a career, too.

But he got dropped by his record label. His record went nowhere. People made fun of his hairstyle his clothes, his voice, his attitude. And right now, he's searching to get back into being a star again. Didn't quite make it with the American people.

O'BRIEN: Thumbs down for Justin.

All right, and you mentioned Kelly. Kelly was in that same grouping, right, wasn't she? Tell me about her. What do you think?

FARLEY: Yes, Kelly Clarkson is doing all right for herself. She is a pretty good singer. She has a good media personality. Her record sold two million copies. So that's a pretty solid start, credential there. She's doing all right for herself.

O'BRIEN: And so you would give her what? Thumbs up, then?

(CROSSTALK)

FARLEY: I would give her a qualified thumbs up. I wouldn't see her in concert. I wouldn't buy her record, but I won't turn the TV off if she's on singing. O'BRIEN: All right, and then we got a bunch of e-mails, and just avalanche of e-mails for Clay, Clay Aiken. Tell me what your thoughts are on Clay.

FARLEY: Well, Clay Aiken is another sign that people like an underdog. This is the guy that finished second. This is the guy that didn't win. And America really embraced him.

His record, first week out, sold more than 600,000 copies. People ran out and got it. He's still out there filling up venues. People are going to see him and he's turned himself into a legitimate star, where it looked like he was only going to be sort of a novelty act. So I think he'll do well for himself. His voice doesn't work for me, but it works for a lot of teenagers out there.

O'BRIEN: Big thumbs up.

And I'm going to skip and let's go right to my favorite one, the "She bangs, she bangs" guy. Is it Richard Hung, Richard Hung?

FARLEY: William Hung.

O'BRIEN: William Hung. This is my kids' favorite. Now, he, of course, has no talent whatsoever, but just really is a lot of fun to watch, isn't he?

FARLEY: No talent at all. But he has talent as an academic. The guy went to Berkeley, so he has talent there. Clearly, as a singer, people embrace him because he has a good altitude about things. He knows maybe -- audiences love him, that he's going to go out there, do what he loves anyway, and people can deal with it. So you've got to respect that, even if you don't want to like it.

O'BRIEN: All right, big thumbs up for him. Certainly, relative to his standing in the competition, I would guess he gets the biggest thumbs up.

FARLEY: Well, not really a thumbs up, maybe a big toe up for him. I wouldn't actually give him an actual digit of my hand.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That would mean he would be dead if his toes were up.

(CROSSTALK)

FARLEY: That may go too far.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Farley, thanks very much for your time. Appreciate it for your assessment of "American Idol."

FARLEY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We got a bunch of e-mails. I just ran out of time because I wanted to talk about William Hung.

Bottom line is, everybody out there loves Clay Aiken, OK? Just tons of e-mail saying, we love Clay Aiken.

Now, as the stardust settles on this season of "American Idol," join CNN's Larry King as he sits down with both Fantasia and Diana tomorrow at 9:00 Eastern.

And that wraps up this Thursday edition of LIVE FROM.

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