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U.S. Troops Clash With Insurgents; President Bush Offers Votes of Confidence to New Iraqi Leaders

Aired June 01, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: This is LIVE FROM. We're rolling on. I'm Kyra Phillips.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in today for Miles.

Here's what happening at this hour.

PHILLIPS: Soon to be under new leadership. The new Iraqi interim government was unveiled today. A Sunni Muslim was named to fill the largely ceremonial post of president. Sheik Ghazi Ajil al- Yawer and the rest of the interim government will take power after June 30.

A law banning a late-term abortion procedure is ruled unconstitutional. A federal judge says the ban infringes on a woman's right to choose. Three lawsuits were filed after President Bush signed the controversial ban last year. That case is expected to go all of the way to the Supreme Court.

Kobe Bryant's accuser won't be called a victim in court. That's the ruling of the judge in Bryant's sexual assault case. The defense argued successfully that using the term could imply guilt. The judge says the woman can be called an alleged victim, however.

Presenting their case against Scott Peterson, the prosecution is giving its version of events in opening statements at Peterson's double murder trial this hour. The defense is expected to present its side later today. Peterson is charged in the deaths of his pregnant wife, Laci, and their unborn child.

The story out of Kufa now. We're being told that the fighting has been renewed near that mosque in Kufa, U.S. patrols clashing with insurgents.

Our Guy Raz is embedded with the 237th Armored Battalion of the U.S. Army.

Guy, what do you know? What can you tell us?

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, according to military officials here in Najaf, fighting broke out in the early evening in southern Kufa after a U.S. zone reconnaissance patrol came under attack. Now, sporadic fighting continued on and off for about an hour, particularly as you say, around the area near to the Kufa mosque. Now, that mosque is where U.S. military officials say many of the Mahdi militia are now holed up firing mortars. They're firing rocket- propelled grenades on U.S. forces. Now, we understand there were no U.S. casualties and an unspecified number of Iraqi casualties. But I should emphasize, Kyra, the fact that we can only tell one side of this story in large measure because we are embedded with U.S. forces. Almost no Western journalists are operating inside Kufa in Najaf.

So it's very difficult to know whether there were major civilian casualties or not -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Guy, what can you tell us about Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr?

RAZ: Well, we understand that Shiite leaders have ended negotiations with Muqtada al-Sadr. He, of course, is that young Shiite cleric who is leading these Mahdi fighters.

Now, these Shiite leaders had come down from Baghdad to negotiate a renewal of a truce offering. We also understand that U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority officials are involved peripherally in these talks to try and put an end to this fighting. Now, Sadr wants to see an end to U.S. reconnaissance patrols. U.S. military officials regard these as routine patrols, but, of course, a fighter in the Mahdi militia, when seeing a convoy of tanks and armored vehicles, may not necessarily interpret that as a defensive maneuver -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Guy Raz, on the outskirts of Kufa there, embedded with the 237th Armored Battalion of the U.S. Army, thank you.

Well, a clearer picture is emerging of who will run Iraq once the coalition hands over power, as expected, June 30. A former exile who has criticized the Bush administration's handling of the crisis will be Iraq's interim president. Dozens of Cabinet members were also introduced today and the Iraqi Government Council dissolved itself. Leading the new government, Sheik Ghazi Ajil al-Yawer, a Sunni Muslim.

The presidency is considered largely a ceremonial role. The new prime minister will be Shia Iyad Allawi, who ran a group opposed to Saddam Hussein. Allawi today said that Iraq needs partnership, not occupation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER-DESIGNATE (through translator): We, like other people, do not want continue to be under occupation. At the same time, we look forward to work together actively against the threats and the terrorism that is among us in these present circumstances. And we will need the partnership of the NMF (ph) to defeat the enemies of Iraq who do not wish for us stability, prosperity and peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The new government will run Iraq until elections later this year or in January. NGUYEN: President Bush meanwhile is giving his vote of confidence to the new leaders.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is live at the White House with reaction.

Kathleen, what are you hearing?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, good afternoon.

The president, it was textbook George Bush this morning, promising to stay the course, to finish the mission and to support the new fledgling Iraqi government. Mr. Bush praised leaders,saying that they had the talent, commitment and resolve for the challenges that lie ahead. Now, among them, of course, is a very possibility of increased violence, as the June 30 handover deadline approaches.

But President Bush this morning said that he was confident that even when sovereignty is turned over, the new leaders will still want U.S. and coalition forces in their country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm confident because of the remarks of Mr. Allawi. And I am told by people on the ground there that they feel that they, the Iraqis, feel comfortable in asking for us to stay, so that we can help provide the security.

Listen, the Iraqis I've talked to are the first to say that the security situation must be improved. And they recognize that there's a lot of work between now and the election in order to improve the security situation, starting with making sure the chain of command within the Iraqi Army and the civilian forces and the police forces is strong and linked, as well as to make sure that these Iraqi forces are equipped and properly trained.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: President Bush says that those Iraqi forces would indeed be under Iraqi control, that, while the U.S. forces, some 135,000 still on the ground in Iraq, would continue to be commanded by U.S. military leaders.

Now, still to be worked out is just how much say, if any, the new interim government will have over the military operations of the U.S. and coalition forces -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Kathleen Koch at the White House, thank you.

New tactics in the war on terror. Government lawyers released details of their case against Jose Padilla. Through two years of interrogations, they say they've learned he planned to blow up hotels and apartment buildings, as well as plotting an attack with a so- called dirty bomb, this, they say, after he allegedly trained at al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan and met several times with some of the terror groups' top leaders. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: In April 2000, having completed his basic terrorist training and having found a mentor in the military leader of al Qaeda, Mohammed Atef, Padilla departed Karachi, Pakistan, and returned to Egypt, ending his first trip to Afghanistan. Two months later, in June of 2001, Padilla returned to Afghanistan and sought out Mohammed Atef.

He met with Atef at a safe house that was reserved for the instructors and the leaders of al Qaeda. According to Padilla, about a month later, his mentor, Atef, asked him a question. He asked his American disciple if he was willing to undertake a mission to blow up apartment buildings in the United States using natural gas. Padilla told him he would do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Now, these are all accusations Padilla's attorney says he denies. And Donna Newman also questions why the government refuses to let her client have his day in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA NEWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOSE PADILLA: Through every step of the way, the history of this case demonstrates, when the government has been pushed against the wall, they come forth with something. This, however, while they say it is very damning, it sounds so much like an opening statement that it's really surprising that Mr. Comey he has said it in this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The Supreme Court is expected to rule next month on whether Padilla can continue to be held without charges.

PHILLIPS: U.S. special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi says that Iraq has suffered from wars, unjust sanctions and the Saddam Hussein regime. In 1991, President George Bush sent U.S. troops in war in Iraq after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Paula Zahn talked to the former president about that decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: You have told me as president one of the most difficult things you've had to do was make a decision to send Americans in harm's way.

How did your combat experience inform that decision?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I told you then that it was one of the most difficult, I was misspeaking. It is the most difficult decision, and because there's no committee. There's no laying blame off on somebody else. The responsibility for seeing someone's son and today daughter into harm's way rests on the shoulders of the president. So it is the most difficult decision.

In my own case, I think having been in combat was probably a helpful thing, just like having been in business was helpful on economic matters and stuff, because having seen right up close men die, I mean, felt the responsibility for the death of my crewmen, it was very real to me. It wasn't -- there was no glamour about that.

And so I thought hard about it before committing somebody else's son or daughter into harm's way, but I think everybody does whether you've served or not in combat. I think every president feels exactly the same way about that. I know Ronald Reagan did in a small operation down there in Granada, and I expect the current president feels exactly that way.

ZAHN: How wrenching was it for you to watch your son send troops in harm's way?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, not wrenching because I think he did the right thing. And I support him totally, without reservation. But having been president, maybe I understand better than a lot of people what the feelings might be for a president who has to send kids into war. And -- but I'll say this, he never whines about it or complains to me about the loneliest job in the world. He's a leader, and he does what he thinks is right. So I think that helps me put it into less personal terms because I support the president and I know what he's going through and been through when he made a fateful decision.

ZAHN: In World War II, the enemy was very defined. It's very different in Iraq and Afghanistan...

G.H.W. BUSH: Very.

ZAHN: ... today, isn't it.

G.H.W. BUSH: Very different enemy. Then it was clear. And incidentally, it took a long time for many in our country to think it'd be worth fighting for, worth standing up against Hitler, worth standing over the -- Japanese was different because Pearl Harbor hit us hard. But it took a long time for America to get behind the idea that we needed to go in and help the United Kingdom and France and Europe, and all of that. But this has changed now because when 9/11 came along, everybody said, Hey, we're in a fight unlike anything in history, and we better do something about it.

If we prevail, and people see that organized terror like practiced and preached by al Qaeda gets done in, then I think we got a far better chance of not facing this enemy over and over again.

ZAHN: You say if we prevail, do you have any doubts that we will?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, I have -- I'm -- no, I don't any doubts that we prevail in what we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have doubts that it can be totally obliterated. But I think we're well on our way to obliterating terror. You know, if that happens -- I had a talk with Lee Kuan Yew, a man I respect greatly in Singapore, and it brought home to me they worry. They worry about as much about it as we do. And I remember Lee Kuan Yew saying to me, Tell the president not to back down, to stay strong. I said, My friend, Harry, he's going to do just exactly that.

And that brought home to me the fact that this isn't just 9/11 here. This isn't just, you know, Lebanon or some other -- Kenya, some other base for terror, it's worldwide. And it's troubling people in Asia. So -- but they're better off if we win a clear victory over terror in Afghanistan and over terror in Iraq. And when people say it's Iraq for the Iraqis, more democratic than it's been, you know, I think -- I think there's a good chance that -- I know it'll be much better, but I think, at some point, you can see the whole thing turn away from anybody supporting this kind of international evil that is terror.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, when we come back, more of Paula Zahn's interview with former President Bush, including what Mr. Bush thought when Saddam Hussein was finally captured.

Also ahead, from the, "Where are they now?" file, remember baby Jessica and that well rescue? Wow, we're going back. See what she's up to today.

And CNN's very first day on the air. Oh, my gosh. All these people are very grown up now. We're going to take you back for some TV history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: More now of our conversation with former President George Bush. Paula Zahn talked to him on Saturday at the nation's Colin Powell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: When you saw the pictures of Saddam Hussein shortly after he was captured, what did you think?

G.H.W. BUSH: I thought, this is great. This is wonderful. Crawling out of a rat hole, or what they did call it, the spider hole, I thought it was wonderful.

I still feel that way. And it'll be the same thing when they find Usama bin Laden. And Saddam Hussein will have a trial, far, far, far fairer, freer trial than he gave people he just had massacred for violating, you know, some tenet of his. But people are going to say, Hey, this is -- this is proper justice and...

ZAHN: Will it be, in your mind?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, I'm not an objective observer about Saddam Hussein. I'm not -- I'm not objective. But under our system, he deserves a free -- deserves a fair trial, and I expect he will get one. If you left it up to most of the Iraqis, I don't think he'd -- I'm sure the justice might be a little different, but -- after what he's done to so many people, so many families in Iraq. Yes, he's entitled to a fair trial.

ZAHN: What kind of support are you able to give your son these days?

G.H.W. BUSH: The same kind of support you give your kids, same kind of support that anybody would give his son, especially in difficult times. And I love him, and he knows that. And so I give him the support of a father, not the support of a former president who's got this view or that view or -- oh, yes, I was there, I know how to do this or that. Heck with that. It's simply the unconditional love of a father for a son. And Barbara, if you asked her, she'd say exactly the same way.

That's what it's about now for us, Paula. It's not about sitting at the head table or, you know, getting some award or trying to act like I know best what's good on foreign policy. It's about a father's love and a mother's love and family. And that's plenty for an old guy.

ZAHN: And yet you told me sometimes the criticism against your son was harder for you to take than when you were president.

G.H.W. BUSH: It hurts far more when they criticize a son, whether he's president, governor, or just in private life. Or my daughter. It hurts far more than when I was under fire back in '92 and couldn't seem to get anybody to support me in the press, or politically -- in politics. But that's the way it is. That's the way '92 was, and that's the way 2004 is. And you got to learn that this goes with the territory and not take it -- maybe, take it as personally as I did back then. But mother used to say, do your best. Don't blame somebody else, George.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And that was former President Bush speaking with CNN's Paula Zahn.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JUNE 1980)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To New York. Stand by. Ready three. Take three. Three, start slow zoom in a little bit. Roll tape. Take three. Ready 13 full. Ready camera three. One, center up.

DAVID WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm David Walker.

LOIS HART, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Lois Hart. Now here's the news. President Carter has arrived in...

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Well, it was a historic moment in journalism. You are watching the birth of CNN on this day in June of 1980, 24 years ago. Our first anchors, Lois Hart, as you see there, next to her, Dave Walker. And of course, it was all conceived by CNN's founder, media magnate Ted Turner.

NGUYEN: Well, one of the big stories CNN covered, the rescue of baby Jessica. She gained worldwide attention after a close call with death at the age of one and now she's reached a milestone.

Jessica McClure, once known as baby Jessica, graduated from high school Friday night; 17 years ago, McClure fell into an abandoned well behind her house. The world anxiously watched as crews struggled for 58 hours to rescue here from the eight-inch wide pipe.

And with that, we wrap up LIVE FROM.

PHILLIPS: That's right.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 1, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: This is LIVE FROM. We're rolling on. I'm Kyra Phillips.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in today for Miles.

Here's what happening at this hour.

PHILLIPS: Soon to be under new leadership. The new Iraqi interim government was unveiled today. A Sunni Muslim was named to fill the largely ceremonial post of president. Sheik Ghazi Ajil al- Yawer and the rest of the interim government will take power after June 30.

A law banning a late-term abortion procedure is ruled unconstitutional. A federal judge says the ban infringes on a woman's right to choose. Three lawsuits were filed after President Bush signed the controversial ban last year. That case is expected to go all of the way to the Supreme Court.

Kobe Bryant's accuser won't be called a victim in court. That's the ruling of the judge in Bryant's sexual assault case. The defense argued successfully that using the term could imply guilt. The judge says the woman can be called an alleged victim, however.

Presenting their case against Scott Peterson, the prosecution is giving its version of events in opening statements at Peterson's double murder trial this hour. The defense is expected to present its side later today. Peterson is charged in the deaths of his pregnant wife, Laci, and their unborn child.

The story out of Kufa now. We're being told that the fighting has been renewed near that mosque in Kufa, U.S. patrols clashing with insurgents.

Our Guy Raz is embedded with the 237th Armored Battalion of the U.S. Army.

Guy, what do you know? What can you tell us?

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, according to military officials here in Najaf, fighting broke out in the early evening in southern Kufa after a U.S. zone reconnaissance patrol came under attack. Now, sporadic fighting continued on and off for about an hour, particularly as you say, around the area near to the Kufa mosque. Now, that mosque is where U.S. military officials say many of the Mahdi militia are now holed up firing mortars. They're firing rocket- propelled grenades on U.S. forces. Now, we understand there were no U.S. casualties and an unspecified number of Iraqi casualties. But I should emphasize, Kyra, the fact that we can only tell one side of this story in large measure because we are embedded with U.S. forces. Almost no Western journalists are operating inside Kufa in Najaf.

So it's very difficult to know whether there were major civilian casualties or not -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Guy, what can you tell us about Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr?

RAZ: Well, we understand that Shiite leaders have ended negotiations with Muqtada al-Sadr. He, of course, is that young Shiite cleric who is leading these Mahdi fighters.

Now, these Shiite leaders had come down from Baghdad to negotiate a renewal of a truce offering. We also understand that U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority officials are involved peripherally in these talks to try and put an end to this fighting. Now, Sadr wants to see an end to U.S. reconnaissance patrols. U.S. military officials regard these as routine patrols, but, of course, a fighter in the Mahdi militia, when seeing a convoy of tanks and armored vehicles, may not necessarily interpret that as a defensive maneuver -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Guy Raz, on the outskirts of Kufa there, embedded with the 237th Armored Battalion of the U.S. Army, thank you.

Well, a clearer picture is emerging of who will run Iraq once the coalition hands over power, as expected, June 30. A former exile who has criticized the Bush administration's handling of the crisis will be Iraq's interim president. Dozens of Cabinet members were also introduced today and the Iraqi Government Council dissolved itself. Leading the new government, Sheik Ghazi Ajil al-Yawer, a Sunni Muslim.

The presidency is considered largely a ceremonial role. The new prime minister will be Shia Iyad Allawi, who ran a group opposed to Saddam Hussein. Allawi today said that Iraq needs partnership, not occupation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER-DESIGNATE (through translator): We, like other people, do not want continue to be under occupation. At the same time, we look forward to work together actively against the threats and the terrorism that is among us in these present circumstances. And we will need the partnership of the NMF (ph) to defeat the enemies of Iraq who do not wish for us stability, prosperity and peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The new government will run Iraq until elections later this year or in January. NGUYEN: President Bush meanwhile is giving his vote of confidence to the new leaders.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is live at the White House with reaction.

Kathleen, what are you hearing?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, good afternoon.

The president, it was textbook George Bush this morning, promising to stay the course, to finish the mission and to support the new fledgling Iraqi government. Mr. Bush praised leaders,saying that they had the talent, commitment and resolve for the challenges that lie ahead. Now, among them, of course, is a very possibility of increased violence, as the June 30 handover deadline approaches.

But President Bush this morning said that he was confident that even when sovereignty is turned over, the new leaders will still want U.S. and coalition forces in their country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm confident because of the remarks of Mr. Allawi. And I am told by people on the ground there that they feel that they, the Iraqis, feel comfortable in asking for us to stay, so that we can help provide the security.

Listen, the Iraqis I've talked to are the first to say that the security situation must be improved. And they recognize that there's a lot of work between now and the election in order to improve the security situation, starting with making sure the chain of command within the Iraqi Army and the civilian forces and the police forces is strong and linked, as well as to make sure that these Iraqi forces are equipped and properly trained.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: President Bush says that those Iraqi forces would indeed be under Iraqi control, that, while the U.S. forces, some 135,000 still on the ground in Iraq, would continue to be commanded by U.S. military leaders.

Now, still to be worked out is just how much say, if any, the new interim government will have over the military operations of the U.S. and coalition forces -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Kathleen Koch at the White House, thank you.

New tactics in the war on terror. Government lawyers released details of their case against Jose Padilla. Through two years of interrogations, they say they've learned he planned to blow up hotels and apartment buildings, as well as plotting an attack with a so- called dirty bomb, this, they say, after he allegedly trained at al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan and met several times with some of the terror groups' top leaders. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: In April 2000, having completed his basic terrorist training and having found a mentor in the military leader of al Qaeda, Mohammed Atef, Padilla departed Karachi, Pakistan, and returned to Egypt, ending his first trip to Afghanistan. Two months later, in June of 2001, Padilla returned to Afghanistan and sought out Mohammed Atef.

He met with Atef at a safe house that was reserved for the instructors and the leaders of al Qaeda. According to Padilla, about a month later, his mentor, Atef, asked him a question. He asked his American disciple if he was willing to undertake a mission to blow up apartment buildings in the United States using natural gas. Padilla told him he would do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Now, these are all accusations Padilla's attorney says he denies. And Donna Newman also questions why the government refuses to let her client have his day in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA NEWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOSE PADILLA: Through every step of the way, the history of this case demonstrates, when the government has been pushed against the wall, they come forth with something. This, however, while they say it is very damning, it sounds so much like an opening statement that it's really surprising that Mr. Comey he has said it in this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The Supreme Court is expected to rule next month on whether Padilla can continue to be held without charges.

PHILLIPS: U.S. special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi says that Iraq has suffered from wars, unjust sanctions and the Saddam Hussein regime. In 1991, President George Bush sent U.S. troops in war in Iraq after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Paula Zahn talked to the former president about that decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: You have told me as president one of the most difficult things you've had to do was make a decision to send Americans in harm's way.

How did your combat experience inform that decision?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I told you then that it was one of the most difficult, I was misspeaking. It is the most difficult decision, and because there's no committee. There's no laying blame off on somebody else. The responsibility for seeing someone's son and today daughter into harm's way rests on the shoulders of the president. So it is the most difficult decision.

In my own case, I think having been in combat was probably a helpful thing, just like having been in business was helpful on economic matters and stuff, because having seen right up close men die, I mean, felt the responsibility for the death of my crewmen, it was very real to me. It wasn't -- there was no glamour about that.

And so I thought hard about it before committing somebody else's son or daughter into harm's way, but I think everybody does whether you've served or not in combat. I think every president feels exactly the same way about that. I know Ronald Reagan did in a small operation down there in Granada, and I expect the current president feels exactly that way.

ZAHN: How wrenching was it for you to watch your son send troops in harm's way?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, not wrenching because I think he did the right thing. And I support him totally, without reservation. But having been president, maybe I understand better than a lot of people what the feelings might be for a president who has to send kids into war. And -- but I'll say this, he never whines about it or complains to me about the loneliest job in the world. He's a leader, and he does what he thinks is right. So I think that helps me put it into less personal terms because I support the president and I know what he's going through and been through when he made a fateful decision.

ZAHN: In World War II, the enemy was very defined. It's very different in Iraq and Afghanistan...

G.H.W. BUSH: Very.

ZAHN: ... today, isn't it.

G.H.W. BUSH: Very different enemy. Then it was clear. And incidentally, it took a long time for many in our country to think it'd be worth fighting for, worth standing up against Hitler, worth standing over the -- Japanese was different because Pearl Harbor hit us hard. But it took a long time for America to get behind the idea that we needed to go in and help the United Kingdom and France and Europe, and all of that. But this has changed now because when 9/11 came along, everybody said, Hey, we're in a fight unlike anything in history, and we better do something about it.

If we prevail, and people see that organized terror like practiced and preached by al Qaeda gets done in, then I think we got a far better chance of not facing this enemy over and over again.

ZAHN: You say if we prevail, do you have any doubts that we will?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, I have -- I'm -- no, I don't any doubts that we prevail in what we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have doubts that it can be totally obliterated. But I think we're well on our way to obliterating terror. You know, if that happens -- I had a talk with Lee Kuan Yew, a man I respect greatly in Singapore, and it brought home to me they worry. They worry about as much about it as we do. And I remember Lee Kuan Yew saying to me, Tell the president not to back down, to stay strong. I said, My friend, Harry, he's going to do just exactly that.

And that brought home to me the fact that this isn't just 9/11 here. This isn't just, you know, Lebanon or some other -- Kenya, some other base for terror, it's worldwide. And it's troubling people in Asia. So -- but they're better off if we win a clear victory over terror in Afghanistan and over terror in Iraq. And when people say it's Iraq for the Iraqis, more democratic than it's been, you know, I think -- I think there's a good chance that -- I know it'll be much better, but I think, at some point, you can see the whole thing turn away from anybody supporting this kind of international evil that is terror.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, when we come back, more of Paula Zahn's interview with former President Bush, including what Mr. Bush thought when Saddam Hussein was finally captured.

Also ahead, from the, "Where are they now?" file, remember baby Jessica and that well rescue? Wow, we're going back. See what she's up to today.

And CNN's very first day on the air. Oh, my gosh. All these people are very grown up now. We're going to take you back for some TV history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: More now of our conversation with former President George Bush. Paula Zahn talked to him on Saturday at the nation's Colin Powell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: When you saw the pictures of Saddam Hussein shortly after he was captured, what did you think?

G.H.W. BUSH: I thought, this is great. This is wonderful. Crawling out of a rat hole, or what they did call it, the spider hole, I thought it was wonderful.

I still feel that way. And it'll be the same thing when they find Usama bin Laden. And Saddam Hussein will have a trial, far, far, far fairer, freer trial than he gave people he just had massacred for violating, you know, some tenet of his. But people are going to say, Hey, this is -- this is proper justice and...

ZAHN: Will it be, in your mind?

G.H.W. BUSH: Well, I'm not an objective observer about Saddam Hussein. I'm not -- I'm not objective. But under our system, he deserves a free -- deserves a fair trial, and I expect he will get one. If you left it up to most of the Iraqis, I don't think he'd -- I'm sure the justice might be a little different, but -- after what he's done to so many people, so many families in Iraq. Yes, he's entitled to a fair trial.

ZAHN: What kind of support are you able to give your son these days?

G.H.W. BUSH: The same kind of support you give your kids, same kind of support that anybody would give his son, especially in difficult times. And I love him, and he knows that. And so I give him the support of a father, not the support of a former president who's got this view or that view or -- oh, yes, I was there, I know how to do this or that. Heck with that. It's simply the unconditional love of a father for a son. And Barbara, if you asked her, she'd say exactly the same way.

That's what it's about now for us, Paula. It's not about sitting at the head table or, you know, getting some award or trying to act like I know best what's good on foreign policy. It's about a father's love and a mother's love and family. And that's plenty for an old guy.

ZAHN: And yet you told me sometimes the criticism against your son was harder for you to take than when you were president.

G.H.W. BUSH: It hurts far more when they criticize a son, whether he's president, governor, or just in private life. Or my daughter. It hurts far more than when I was under fire back in '92 and couldn't seem to get anybody to support me in the press, or politically -- in politics. But that's the way it is. That's the way '92 was, and that's the way 2004 is. And you got to learn that this goes with the territory and not take it -- maybe, take it as personally as I did back then. But mother used to say, do your best. Don't blame somebody else, George.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And that was former President Bush speaking with CNN's Paula Zahn.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JUNE 1980)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To New York. Stand by. Ready three. Take three. Three, start slow zoom in a little bit. Roll tape. Take three. Ready 13 full. Ready camera three. One, center up.

DAVID WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm David Walker.

LOIS HART, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Lois Hart. Now here's the news. President Carter has arrived in...

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Well, it was a historic moment in journalism. You are watching the birth of CNN on this day in June of 1980, 24 years ago. Our first anchors, Lois Hart, as you see there, next to her, Dave Walker. And of course, it was all conceived by CNN's founder, media magnate Ted Turner.

NGUYEN: Well, one of the big stories CNN covered, the rescue of baby Jessica. She gained worldwide attention after a close call with death at the age of one and now she's reached a milestone.

Jessica McClure, once known as baby Jessica, graduated from high school Friday night; 17 years ago, McClure fell into an abandoned well behind her house. The world anxiously watched as crews struggled for 58 hours to rescue here from the eight-inch wide pipe.

And with that, we wrap up LIVE FROM.

PHILLIPS: That's right.

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