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Remembering Regan Before Viewing at Presidential Library

Aired June 07, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures right now, the body of former President Ronald Reagan right now headed to the Reagan Presidential Library for a closed-casket viewing. Thousands of people can come through and pay their respects to the former president.
He has already started off at the mortuary in Santa Monica, California. His family joined up there. Now en route to Simi Valley, California. Meanwhile, of course, in Washington, plans under way for the state funeral on Friday in the nation's capital.

And as you can imagine, you can see the fire trucks and emergency personnel and people of the area lined up along the streets and also the bridges watching that motorcade make its way down the highway there, headed to Simi Valley, California. Just outside of Los Angeles, about an hour's drive outside of Los Angeles.

Our coverage continues, of course. Respects being paid here in southern California, from Washington D.C. to Wall Street. And that's where we take over now with Miles and Rhonda Schaffler.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Ronald Reagan was the first sitting U.S. president to visit the Stock Exchange. Rhonda Schaffler is there now to tell us of their plans to remember Ronald Reagan this Friday -- Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN STOCK MARKET CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. In fact, the New York Stock Exchange will be closed this Friday to observe the national day of mourning for President Reagan. The New York Stock Exchange has in the past closed during other times we have had days of mourning.

Let's remember that this trading day began with a two-minute moment of silence. You could not hear a pin drop on this trading floor as members paid their respects to the former president.

President Reagan, of course, is a person who draws a lot of memories here. As Miles mentioned, being the first sitting president to visit the New York Stock Exchange. That was in 1985. He actually talked to the trading community a little bit about his economic plan.

But perhaps even more dramatic than that was a 1992 visit with the former Soviet president, Gorbachev. And that, if you can imagine, goes to gentlemen here on Wall Street, caused quite a reaction. It's something that traders still talk about and remember quite fondly.

At this point, the New York Stock Exchange, again, open for business now, after what was a very some better start to this trading day, but on Friday, there will be no trading, as the nation remembers the former president -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Rhonda, just talking to traders today, I don't know if you had much of a chance, what has been the thoughts, the general feeling there on wall street about Ronald Reagan's legacy on the economy and how they do business there?

SCHAFFLER: Well, there are a lot of traders who very much support Reaganomics. And in fact, I talked to one trader earlier today that said that Reagan's economic plans were in part responsible for the boom years on Wall Street during the 1990s. So he certainly has his share of fans on Wall Street in particular.

He is seen as somebody who made a difference in some economic policies that benefited wall street. For that reason, and as well as the fact that his personality, we know, attracted many. And so those traders who remember his visits here on Wall Street remember quite fondly the man as well as the policies.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rhonda Schaffler, thank you very much.

Let's get an historical prospective. Professor Rick Shenkman, with American University, joining us from Paris, of all places. An American in Paris today. Professor Shenkman, good to see you.

PROF. RICK SHENKMAN, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, but you're going to get me in trouble with my university. I used to be with American. I'm now with George Mason.

O'BRIEN: My apologies. I couldn't lay my hands on the notes and I apologize for that.

Professor Shenkman, let's talk about President Reagan, an historical perspective. To what extent has he cast a shadow over all that have followed him into the Oval Office?

SHENKMAN: Well, there were two great presidents of the 20th century, presidents who really loomed large. One was Franklin Roosevelt and the other is Ronald Reagan.

And what measure is that all the presidents who came after Franklin Roosevelt, lived in his shadow, operated in his shadow, were compared to him. And all of the presidents since Ronald Reagan have been compared with him.

I wouldn't go so far, though, as to say that Ronald Reagan was a great president. There were too many problems, weaknesses in his presidency and in the way that he conducted himself as president to merit that kind of status.

Of course, the media always liked to say, you know, how do historians rank the presidents. Historians rank them in various ways. With Reagan, there were some weaknesses that make me reluctant to put him up there with Franklin Roosevelt, Lincoln George Washington. One of the examples that I cite is what happened when he went to Reykjavik. This was a mini summit, it was called, with Gorbachev in 1986. And he was going there with an audacious proposal. He goes to Gorbachev and he says let's eliminate, not reduce, let's eliminate all ballistic missiles. Sounds wonderful.

And Gorbachev was intrigued, but he turns him down. And Reagan only later realizes why he was turned down. It was because the Soviet Union's main nuclear force was land-based ballistic missiles. So basically Reagan was asking the soviets to unilaterally disarm. They didn't have the submarine and air base nuclear forces that we did.

But this is the problem with Reagan. He's audacious, he's brave and courageous. And yet at the same time, he was so weak on the facts that here he is tampering with the nuclear chess board, but he doesn't quite have all of his facts together.

(CROSSTALK)

SHENKMAN: He's more complicated than either the left or the right like to admit.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about whether he was a person who presided over times or reacted to events. Take us through the psychology which led him to be -- I mean if you look up Cold War here in the dictionary, if you had to pick one picture to put in there, it would probably of Ronald Reagan. After all he presided, he was there as the whole thing crumbled.

Give us a sense of what motivated him into that role.

SHENKMAN: Excellent question. Because what we have with Ronald Reagan is a man who is actually instigating events, even though both liberals and conservatives think that he was reacting to events.

Let's take the issue of the Cold War which you raise. The conservatives say Ronald Reagan was waiting for Gorbachev, somebody, a man he could do business with. And he then starts trying to strike deals.

And the liberals will say he is waiting for Gorbachev and they're going to work as partners only because Gorbachev is willing to make some changes.

What they're missing is that Reagan changed our Cold War policy, vis-a-vis the Soviet Union.

In 1983, at the end of 1983, before Gorbachev takes office, Walen Dropov (ph) is still the Soviet premier, and according to one historian, Beth Fisher, there are three reasons why Reagan really decides he's going to change our policy, our nuclear policy toward the Soviet Union. One was, he saw "The Day After," this television movie shocking, relating what happens after a nuclear attack. Reagan was just devastated by what the movie showed. Secondly, he got a Pentagon briefing on what a nuclear war would look like and the kinds of decisions he would have to make as president in the event of a nuclear war, and he was shocked by that, too. And finally, he realized that nuclear war was possible when he saw what happened when the Soviets shot down the Korean airliner, 101.

Well, all of that together made him rethink our policy, and he goes and he does it unilaterally. It's not George Schultz, who was the secretary of state, who was calling the shots, or the National Security Council, it was Ronald Reagan; and he was not just reacting to events, he's really deciding he's going to take this country in a new direction, and he did.

O'BRIEN: And did he find a lot of opposition along the way in his own party? I mean, what he was doing, it's sort of like, I guess it's like Nixon to China, only Reagan could do this perhaps?

SHENKMAN: Well, a lot of people in the party didn't quite understand what he was up to. George Schultz himself at Rackovic (ph) thought, well, he's the president of the United States. I wouldn't do this, but he's the guy who got elected, let's see what he's up to. And there was skepticism. And if you read in the conservative press, they thought maybe he had been taken in by the Soviets, maybe he'd been taken in by Gorbachev's charm. Reagan was charming, but so was Gorbachev, and they were a little worried about it. If you read the issues of "National Review" at the time, there was skepticism expressed about Ronald Reagan. But in the end, he got the conservative people to come around.

And here's one of the key characteristics of a great leader, is that he can get followers. Gary Wells says you can't be a great leader unless you can get followers. Reagan was able to muster enthusiasm by his followers, and that's critical. Gorbachev wouldn't have taken Reagan seriously if he didn't think that Reagan could get the American people behind him. He saw how easily Reagan was able to manipulate the Congress back in 1983 into approving a big defense buildup and the big cut in taxes. And so it made Reagan a larger- than-life figure. So even while sometimes his rating numbers weren't comparable to, say, George Bush after 9/11 -- he never hit those kind of stratospheric numbers. Both Bushes had much higher ratings numbers than Reagan ever did during his entire eight-year presidency, but he knew how to muster public support for his policies, and that was critical in his success.

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman with George Mason university, we'd like to ask you to stand by for just a few moments. We have to get a few -- touch a few more bases, but we want to hear some more of your thoughts in just a little bit -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: If you're just tuning in, live pictures once again, headed to Simi Valley, California. Reagan's coffin, accompanied by his family, left the mortuary in Santa Monica, California, about 35 to 40 minutes ago for this procession now to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, where a private ceremony will be held, 11:00 a.m. West Coast time, and then Reagan's body will remain there at the presidential library until tomorrow. Thousands of people expected to come through and pay their respects to the closed-casket viewing. That's where we find our Thelma Gutierrez. She's actually down there with a number of those well-wishers. Thelma, you got a chance to get a pulse from the crowd, talk to a number of people who have showed up to give their respects to the former president.

What are they telling you, and what's the feel and the mood there?

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, I can tell you, people have started lining up ever since midnight last night. You could see sleeping bags, people have lawn chairs, kids are asleep out on the sidewalk, just waiting to be able to get on that shuttle and make their way up to the library. The shuttles will begin running in about half an hour, and they will pull up to the spot right behind me. The public will load the shuttles, they will move continuously, and they'll make that five-mile journey up to the library, but before they do that, they're going to have to go through a very rigorous screening process. You can see the canopies right behind me.

There are five metal detectors that have been set up. Bags will be checked. Then the people will board one of two dozen shuttles will begin to run continuously until midnight tonight. We had mentioned a very long line has begun to form right in front of the building that you see behind me, hundreds of people, again, with lawn chairs, who have camped out through the night. The first man in that line said that he arrived at midnight. Some came from as far away as New York and Arizona, and they all told us that they wanted to pay tribute to President Reagan, and they also wanted to be part of an historical event. Again, two dozen shuttles which will move 2,000 people per hour, and, Kyra, they are expecting between 45,000 and 60,000 people over the next two days -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thelma, give our viewers a sense for where -- you and I, of course, lived there for a long time. You are still there, in Southern California. Kind of give our viewers a feel for where you are, where Simi Valley is, why the president's library is there. And it's quite a popular place, too. It's one of the most busiest places, one of the most popular places there in Simi Valley with regard to tourism and those that like to visit that area.

GUTIERREZ: Yes, you're exactly right, Kyra. As you know, this area where we are standing now is very rustic. We're about -- very rural, I mean. We're about five miles away from that library, and the library, again, is kind of the center point of this community. You talk to anybody out here and they'll tell you just how much the president meant to them, how moved they are by all of this.

In fact, this is a library, as you had mentioned, very popular. The area drew an average of 400 people per day, and this library will be closed, we understand, through Sunday.

O'BRIEN: All right, our Thelma Gutierrez there, just outside the presidential library in Simi Valley, California.

Live pictures, as you can see, as various members of the military, thousands of supporters of the former president, wait for the motorcade to arrive, we're told. The coffin, the president's coffin, is expected to arrive about seven minutes from now. This entire procession close to an hour. It started in Santa Monica, California. The motorcade has traveled from the mortuary there, now to the presidential library in Simi Valley, California, about seven minutes away, and we will continue our live coverage, and once the president's coffin has arrived, we'll take you back to Simi Valley.

Meanwhile -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: We were just talking a few moments ago with Rick Shenkman of George Mason University about President Reagan's enduring popularity, but also how the peaks and valleys of his popularity, perhaps not quite as severe as they were for both Bush presidencies. In other words, the highs were not as high.

Let's bring in Frank Newport with the Gallup Poll, joining from us Princeton, and run a few numbers as we look back on Reagan's popularity, you know, during his presidency and afterward -- Frank.

FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL: Miles, indeed you're right. He certainly did not have the high points that both president Bushes had with the Persian Gulf War, and then after 9/11, but President Reagan, I should say, did have what I would call average approval ratings while he was in office. That's something that's not understood as well now, because of course Reagan is doing very well in retrospect.

But 53 percent is the number, that's average job approval rating that Bush had while he was -- excuse me, Reagan had while he was in office, actually a little below what George H. W. Bush averaged, below what Clinton averaged. It was above his immediate predecessor, Bill Clinton's.

To look at his eight years in office is a fascinating experience. It kind of gives us a capsule of how Reagan was perceived while in office. He started out pretty good, but then he fell. It was a recession. So '82 and '83, not good years. His job approval rating well under 50 percent in those years.

Then it came up. In '84, got re-elected, did well in '85, '86, and then the Iran-Contra, and his approval rating dropped like 15 points overnight and stayed low for most of the rest of his administration. Averaged 53 percent while he was in office.

Since then, retrospectively, a lot of improvement in how Americans look at Reagan, didn't happen overnight. The early 1990s, his retrospective ratings still in the low 50s. But look what happened, when we've asked it more recently, '99, 2000, 2002, 70 percent of Americans looking back say they approve of the way Reagan handled office. Twenty-point now when Americans look back over what they gave him while he was in office.

A couple of other indicators, last November, we said, who is the greatest president of all time? Guess what? Reagan was third on the list. Americans said Abraham Lincoln, they said Franklin Roosevelt, they said John Kennedy, but right up there with those presidents was Ronald Reagan with 13 percent mentioned, and I should point out, Miles, every year we at Gallup asks who's the living man anywhere in the world you most admire, Reagan has been on that list more than any other American since 1948, with one exception. That's the Reverend Billy Graham, who's been on 46 times. But Reagan's been on our top 10 most admired list 30 years, Miles, going all the way back to when he was governor of California.

O'BRIEN: Just a quick thought on that, Frank. To what extent is it typical -- I'm putting you on the spot here a little. You don't have to give me exact numbers.

But to what extent is it typical that former president's rise -- their esteem rises among the American public.

NEWPORT: Not neccessarily typical at all. Not at all. We just this weekend have been reviewing some of those retrospective ratings again.

Nixon, for example, doesn't do any better now than he did while he was in office. Lyndon Johnson actually suffered some. People still remember Vietnam (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Carter doesn't do a lot better now. So to go up retrospective approval isn't necessarily the norm.

One factor of course with Reagan, he announced that in 1994 he had Alzheimer's disease. And I think the sympathy and the concern on the part of the American public for Reagan and his situation there in California with the disease could have something to do with the more positive ratings more recently.

O'BRIEN: Frank Newport with the Gallup Poll in Princeton. Thanks for sharing some numbers with us.

PHILLIPS: Once again, that just about wraps up tour coverage. But the motorcade continues. The president, the former President Ronald Reagan, his body, his coffin, here live in this motorcade. By his side, his wife Nancy, their three children, Ron and Michael and Patti Davis also in that motorcade.

Just minutes away now from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library there in Simi Valley where the closed-casket viewing will take place until tomorrow, until the former president's body is flown to Washington D.C.

You can actually log onto the Web site, ReaganLibrary.com if you want to send your condolences if you're not able to be there in person, where I'm told thousands of people already, Miles, since last night are waiting to pay their respects to the former president as his body arrives there.

O'BRIEN: And you see the honor guard on the left-hand part of your screen there at that location at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley. And also there among the crowd, CNN's Anderson Cooper and Judy Woodruff, who will take it from here.

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Aired June 7, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures right now, the body of former President Ronald Reagan right now headed to the Reagan Presidential Library for a closed-casket viewing. Thousands of people can come through and pay their respects to the former president.
He has already started off at the mortuary in Santa Monica, California. His family joined up there. Now en route to Simi Valley, California. Meanwhile, of course, in Washington, plans under way for the state funeral on Friday in the nation's capital.

And as you can imagine, you can see the fire trucks and emergency personnel and people of the area lined up along the streets and also the bridges watching that motorcade make its way down the highway there, headed to Simi Valley, California. Just outside of Los Angeles, about an hour's drive outside of Los Angeles.

Our coverage continues, of course. Respects being paid here in southern California, from Washington D.C. to Wall Street. And that's where we take over now with Miles and Rhonda Schaffler.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Ronald Reagan was the first sitting U.S. president to visit the Stock Exchange. Rhonda Schaffler is there now to tell us of their plans to remember Ronald Reagan this Friday -- Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN STOCK MARKET CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. In fact, the New York Stock Exchange will be closed this Friday to observe the national day of mourning for President Reagan. The New York Stock Exchange has in the past closed during other times we have had days of mourning.

Let's remember that this trading day began with a two-minute moment of silence. You could not hear a pin drop on this trading floor as members paid their respects to the former president.

President Reagan, of course, is a person who draws a lot of memories here. As Miles mentioned, being the first sitting president to visit the New York Stock Exchange. That was in 1985. He actually talked to the trading community a little bit about his economic plan.

But perhaps even more dramatic than that was a 1992 visit with the former Soviet president, Gorbachev. And that, if you can imagine, goes to gentlemen here on Wall Street, caused quite a reaction. It's something that traders still talk about and remember quite fondly.

At this point, the New York Stock Exchange, again, open for business now, after what was a very some better start to this trading day, but on Friday, there will be no trading, as the nation remembers the former president -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Rhonda, just talking to traders today, I don't know if you had much of a chance, what has been the thoughts, the general feeling there on wall street about Ronald Reagan's legacy on the economy and how they do business there?

SCHAFFLER: Well, there are a lot of traders who very much support Reaganomics. And in fact, I talked to one trader earlier today that said that Reagan's economic plans were in part responsible for the boom years on Wall Street during the 1990s. So he certainly has his share of fans on Wall Street in particular.

He is seen as somebody who made a difference in some economic policies that benefited wall street. For that reason, and as well as the fact that his personality, we know, attracted many. And so those traders who remember his visits here on Wall Street remember quite fondly the man as well as the policies.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rhonda Schaffler, thank you very much.

Let's get an historical prospective. Professor Rick Shenkman, with American University, joining us from Paris, of all places. An American in Paris today. Professor Shenkman, good to see you.

PROF. RICK SHENKMAN, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, but you're going to get me in trouble with my university. I used to be with American. I'm now with George Mason.

O'BRIEN: My apologies. I couldn't lay my hands on the notes and I apologize for that.

Professor Shenkman, let's talk about President Reagan, an historical perspective. To what extent has he cast a shadow over all that have followed him into the Oval Office?

SHENKMAN: Well, there were two great presidents of the 20th century, presidents who really loomed large. One was Franklin Roosevelt and the other is Ronald Reagan.

And what measure is that all the presidents who came after Franklin Roosevelt, lived in his shadow, operated in his shadow, were compared to him. And all of the presidents since Ronald Reagan have been compared with him.

I wouldn't go so far, though, as to say that Ronald Reagan was a great president. There were too many problems, weaknesses in his presidency and in the way that he conducted himself as president to merit that kind of status.

Of course, the media always liked to say, you know, how do historians rank the presidents. Historians rank them in various ways. With Reagan, there were some weaknesses that make me reluctant to put him up there with Franklin Roosevelt, Lincoln George Washington. One of the examples that I cite is what happened when he went to Reykjavik. This was a mini summit, it was called, with Gorbachev in 1986. And he was going there with an audacious proposal. He goes to Gorbachev and he says let's eliminate, not reduce, let's eliminate all ballistic missiles. Sounds wonderful.

And Gorbachev was intrigued, but he turns him down. And Reagan only later realizes why he was turned down. It was because the Soviet Union's main nuclear force was land-based ballistic missiles. So basically Reagan was asking the soviets to unilaterally disarm. They didn't have the submarine and air base nuclear forces that we did.

But this is the problem with Reagan. He's audacious, he's brave and courageous. And yet at the same time, he was so weak on the facts that here he is tampering with the nuclear chess board, but he doesn't quite have all of his facts together.

(CROSSTALK)

SHENKMAN: He's more complicated than either the left or the right like to admit.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about whether he was a person who presided over times or reacted to events. Take us through the psychology which led him to be -- I mean if you look up Cold War here in the dictionary, if you had to pick one picture to put in there, it would probably of Ronald Reagan. After all he presided, he was there as the whole thing crumbled.

Give us a sense of what motivated him into that role.

SHENKMAN: Excellent question. Because what we have with Ronald Reagan is a man who is actually instigating events, even though both liberals and conservatives think that he was reacting to events.

Let's take the issue of the Cold War which you raise. The conservatives say Ronald Reagan was waiting for Gorbachev, somebody, a man he could do business with. And he then starts trying to strike deals.

And the liberals will say he is waiting for Gorbachev and they're going to work as partners only because Gorbachev is willing to make some changes.

What they're missing is that Reagan changed our Cold War policy, vis-a-vis the Soviet Union.

In 1983, at the end of 1983, before Gorbachev takes office, Walen Dropov (ph) is still the Soviet premier, and according to one historian, Beth Fisher, there are three reasons why Reagan really decides he's going to change our policy, our nuclear policy toward the Soviet Union. One was, he saw "The Day After," this television movie shocking, relating what happens after a nuclear attack. Reagan was just devastated by what the movie showed. Secondly, he got a Pentagon briefing on what a nuclear war would look like and the kinds of decisions he would have to make as president in the event of a nuclear war, and he was shocked by that, too. And finally, he realized that nuclear war was possible when he saw what happened when the Soviets shot down the Korean airliner, 101.

Well, all of that together made him rethink our policy, and he goes and he does it unilaterally. It's not George Schultz, who was the secretary of state, who was calling the shots, or the National Security Council, it was Ronald Reagan; and he was not just reacting to events, he's really deciding he's going to take this country in a new direction, and he did.

O'BRIEN: And did he find a lot of opposition along the way in his own party? I mean, what he was doing, it's sort of like, I guess it's like Nixon to China, only Reagan could do this perhaps?

SHENKMAN: Well, a lot of people in the party didn't quite understand what he was up to. George Schultz himself at Rackovic (ph) thought, well, he's the president of the United States. I wouldn't do this, but he's the guy who got elected, let's see what he's up to. And there was skepticism. And if you read in the conservative press, they thought maybe he had been taken in by the Soviets, maybe he'd been taken in by Gorbachev's charm. Reagan was charming, but so was Gorbachev, and they were a little worried about it. If you read the issues of "National Review" at the time, there was skepticism expressed about Ronald Reagan. But in the end, he got the conservative people to come around.

And here's one of the key characteristics of a great leader, is that he can get followers. Gary Wells says you can't be a great leader unless you can get followers. Reagan was able to muster enthusiasm by his followers, and that's critical. Gorbachev wouldn't have taken Reagan seriously if he didn't think that Reagan could get the American people behind him. He saw how easily Reagan was able to manipulate the Congress back in 1983 into approving a big defense buildup and the big cut in taxes. And so it made Reagan a larger- than-life figure. So even while sometimes his rating numbers weren't comparable to, say, George Bush after 9/11 -- he never hit those kind of stratospheric numbers. Both Bushes had much higher ratings numbers than Reagan ever did during his entire eight-year presidency, but he knew how to muster public support for his policies, and that was critical in his success.

O'BRIEN: Rick Shenkman with George Mason university, we'd like to ask you to stand by for just a few moments. We have to get a few -- touch a few more bases, but we want to hear some more of your thoughts in just a little bit -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: If you're just tuning in, live pictures once again, headed to Simi Valley, California. Reagan's coffin, accompanied by his family, left the mortuary in Santa Monica, California, about 35 to 40 minutes ago for this procession now to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, where a private ceremony will be held, 11:00 a.m. West Coast time, and then Reagan's body will remain there at the presidential library until tomorrow. Thousands of people expected to come through and pay their respects to the closed-casket viewing. That's where we find our Thelma Gutierrez. She's actually down there with a number of those well-wishers. Thelma, you got a chance to get a pulse from the crowd, talk to a number of people who have showed up to give their respects to the former president.

What are they telling you, and what's the feel and the mood there?

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, I can tell you, people have started lining up ever since midnight last night. You could see sleeping bags, people have lawn chairs, kids are asleep out on the sidewalk, just waiting to be able to get on that shuttle and make their way up to the library. The shuttles will begin running in about half an hour, and they will pull up to the spot right behind me. The public will load the shuttles, they will move continuously, and they'll make that five-mile journey up to the library, but before they do that, they're going to have to go through a very rigorous screening process. You can see the canopies right behind me.

There are five metal detectors that have been set up. Bags will be checked. Then the people will board one of two dozen shuttles will begin to run continuously until midnight tonight. We had mentioned a very long line has begun to form right in front of the building that you see behind me, hundreds of people, again, with lawn chairs, who have camped out through the night. The first man in that line said that he arrived at midnight. Some came from as far away as New York and Arizona, and they all told us that they wanted to pay tribute to President Reagan, and they also wanted to be part of an historical event. Again, two dozen shuttles which will move 2,000 people per hour, and, Kyra, they are expecting between 45,000 and 60,000 people over the next two days -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thelma, give our viewers a sense for where -- you and I, of course, lived there for a long time. You are still there, in Southern California. Kind of give our viewers a feel for where you are, where Simi Valley is, why the president's library is there. And it's quite a popular place, too. It's one of the most busiest places, one of the most popular places there in Simi Valley with regard to tourism and those that like to visit that area.

GUTIERREZ: Yes, you're exactly right, Kyra. As you know, this area where we are standing now is very rustic. We're about -- very rural, I mean. We're about five miles away from that library, and the library, again, is kind of the center point of this community. You talk to anybody out here and they'll tell you just how much the president meant to them, how moved they are by all of this.

In fact, this is a library, as you had mentioned, very popular. The area drew an average of 400 people per day, and this library will be closed, we understand, through Sunday.

O'BRIEN: All right, our Thelma Gutierrez there, just outside the presidential library in Simi Valley, California.

Live pictures, as you can see, as various members of the military, thousands of supporters of the former president, wait for the motorcade to arrive, we're told. The coffin, the president's coffin, is expected to arrive about seven minutes from now. This entire procession close to an hour. It started in Santa Monica, California. The motorcade has traveled from the mortuary there, now to the presidential library in Simi Valley, California, about seven minutes away, and we will continue our live coverage, and once the president's coffin has arrived, we'll take you back to Simi Valley.

Meanwhile -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: We were just talking a few moments ago with Rick Shenkman of George Mason University about President Reagan's enduring popularity, but also how the peaks and valleys of his popularity, perhaps not quite as severe as they were for both Bush presidencies. In other words, the highs were not as high.

Let's bring in Frank Newport with the Gallup Poll, joining from us Princeton, and run a few numbers as we look back on Reagan's popularity, you know, during his presidency and afterward -- Frank.

FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL: Miles, indeed you're right. He certainly did not have the high points that both president Bushes had with the Persian Gulf War, and then after 9/11, but President Reagan, I should say, did have what I would call average approval ratings while he was in office. That's something that's not understood as well now, because of course Reagan is doing very well in retrospect.

But 53 percent is the number, that's average job approval rating that Bush had while he was -- excuse me, Reagan had while he was in office, actually a little below what George H. W. Bush averaged, below what Clinton averaged. It was above his immediate predecessor, Bill Clinton's.

To look at his eight years in office is a fascinating experience. It kind of gives us a capsule of how Reagan was perceived while in office. He started out pretty good, but then he fell. It was a recession. So '82 and '83, not good years. His job approval rating well under 50 percent in those years.

Then it came up. In '84, got re-elected, did well in '85, '86, and then the Iran-Contra, and his approval rating dropped like 15 points overnight and stayed low for most of the rest of his administration. Averaged 53 percent while he was in office.

Since then, retrospectively, a lot of improvement in how Americans look at Reagan, didn't happen overnight. The early 1990s, his retrospective ratings still in the low 50s. But look what happened, when we've asked it more recently, '99, 2000, 2002, 70 percent of Americans looking back say they approve of the way Reagan handled office. Twenty-point now when Americans look back over what they gave him while he was in office.

A couple of other indicators, last November, we said, who is the greatest president of all time? Guess what? Reagan was third on the list. Americans said Abraham Lincoln, they said Franklin Roosevelt, they said John Kennedy, but right up there with those presidents was Ronald Reagan with 13 percent mentioned, and I should point out, Miles, every year we at Gallup asks who's the living man anywhere in the world you most admire, Reagan has been on that list more than any other American since 1948, with one exception. That's the Reverend Billy Graham, who's been on 46 times. But Reagan's been on our top 10 most admired list 30 years, Miles, going all the way back to when he was governor of California.

O'BRIEN: Just a quick thought on that, Frank. To what extent is it typical -- I'm putting you on the spot here a little. You don't have to give me exact numbers.

But to what extent is it typical that former president's rise -- their esteem rises among the American public.

NEWPORT: Not neccessarily typical at all. Not at all. We just this weekend have been reviewing some of those retrospective ratings again.

Nixon, for example, doesn't do any better now than he did while he was in office. Lyndon Johnson actually suffered some. People still remember Vietnam (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Carter doesn't do a lot better now. So to go up retrospective approval isn't necessarily the norm.

One factor of course with Reagan, he announced that in 1994 he had Alzheimer's disease. And I think the sympathy and the concern on the part of the American public for Reagan and his situation there in California with the disease could have something to do with the more positive ratings more recently.

O'BRIEN: Frank Newport with the Gallup Poll in Princeton. Thanks for sharing some numbers with us.

PHILLIPS: Once again, that just about wraps up tour coverage. But the motorcade continues. The president, the former President Ronald Reagan, his body, his coffin, here live in this motorcade. By his side, his wife Nancy, their three children, Ron and Michael and Patti Davis also in that motorcade.

Just minutes away now from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library there in Simi Valley where the closed-casket viewing will take place until tomorrow, until the former president's body is flown to Washington D.C.

You can actually log onto the Web site, ReaganLibrary.com if you want to send your condolences if you're not able to be there in person, where I'm told thousands of people already, Miles, since last night are waiting to pay their respects to the former president as his body arrives there.

O'BRIEN: And you see the honor guard on the left-hand part of your screen there at that location at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley. And also there among the crowd, CNN's Anderson Cooper and Judy Woodruff, who will take it from here.

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