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State Funeral Journey Begins for Former President Reagan

Aired June 07, 2004 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, live pictures from Santa Monica, California. This is the mortuary right now where the body of the former president is to travel from motorcade in Santa Monica, California, to the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley out front. You see members of the family.
We saw Nancy Reagan just moments ago. Also, Ron Reagan, Jr. and Michael Reagan, and also Patti Davis, the daughter, out there in front. Nancy Reagan spending a little time inside the mortuary before getting involved with the motorcade and moving forward to the next place of remembrance.

O'BRIEN: It was a sad moment seeing her. And I note I'm sure it's a coincidence, but this is the Little Chapel of the Dawn. This is the president who told us it was morning in America again here at the mortuary of the Little Chapel of the Dawn on his way shortly to Simi Valley. Ultimately, he will be burried in a crypt there at the Reagan Presidential Library. But in the interim, there will be a state funeral in Washington.

So it will be a weeklong remembrance of Ronald Reagan that we are embarked upon. That procession that we're telling you about is scheduled to begin probably five minutes from now. The trip to Simi Valley, as we say, 45 miles, could take an hour.

Ted Rowlands is there in Santa Monica and has been watching the scene and watching the remembrances, the spontaneous remembrances that have been left there, as well as the arrival of friends and family members of Ronald Reagan. Ted, what have you been seeing?

ROWLANDS: Well, I can tell you that Mrs. Reagan is in right now finishing up her private time. And now the front doors have just opened and the casket is being brought out, the flag-draped casket containing the remains of former President Reagan.

Each member of the armed forces is represented in the pallbearing duties, as they bring it out step by step. The remains will be taken, as you mentioned, by motorcade to Simi Valley. That will take place as soon as everything is set. And that journey is expected to take about an hour.

The family members are all together in front of the limousine holding hands. Michael Reagan has been fighting back tears and openly weeping here as he looked at the memorial outside here. Patti Davis was by Mrs. Reagan's side as she took a look at all of the memorial well wishes that the former first lady came by to read. Mrs. Reagan is expected to also follow, come out the front door. And there you see her preparing to walk out of the front door of the mortuary. She will follow her husband's remains as they are loaded into the limousine. And the beginning of a very long and most undoubtedly painful week will begin for the Reagan family as they allow the public to join them in remembering and paying tribute to Ronald Reagan.

O'BRIEN: Ted, as we watch the remains being moved to the hearse with the honor guard, give us a little flavor. We've seen the flags. Give us a flavor of the kinds of messages. I hear some...

PHILLIPS: You can hear everybody cheering.

O'BRIEN: ... applause and cheers. Is there a fairly large crowd around you outside the security cordon there?

ROWLANDS: Yes, there is a huge crowd of people. You can't see them because they've been put back behind a barricade. The entire street has been sealed off. But they can see from across the street the remains being loaded into the hearse. And when they first saw the image of the flag-draped casket, they applauded.

And they have been out here steadily since getting word that the president had died and that he was brought here to Santa Monica. The well-wishing, in terms of notes, is extensive. Some are quick and just little phrases. One says, "Thanks, Dutch. Thank you, Ronald Reagan. Well done, good and faithful servant." Pictures, little mementos, a lot of American flags as well.

People truly touched by the loss of a president. Everybody has a personal relationship that they've developed with a president. And people came here and talked extensively about their feelings and thoughts about Ronald Reagan, as you see in Mrs. Reagan watching the casket being loaded into the hearse here before the journey to Simi Valley starts in the next few minutes.

PHILLIPS: Ted, you see all the members of the military there. And as we saw, the pictures, even overnight, a lot of well wishers coming all throughout the night. And very powerful images of members of the military coming out here to this reflecting pool and just saluting, saluting what they were looking at, and just spending time there of moments of reflection. Not just the family, but so many supporters.

ROWLANDS: Yes. A lot of veterans have made their way over here to pay their respects to the former commander in chief. Of course with the Normandy recognition going on as well on Sunday, there were a lot of vets that simply came here to take time and spend some time in front of this memorial. We did see the images of a lot of folks standing and seemingly praying, and then saluting and walking off. A lot of them brought to tears by it.

The Reagan family is all together today, except, of course, Maureen Reagan, who died of cancer in 2001. She would have been the oldest -- she is the oldest child. But she, of course, died in 2001. The rest of the family is now exiting and making their way to their vehicles as they get ready to join the procession to the Reagan Library.

O'BRIEN: Ted, aside from the family members, one of the faces I recognized in the crowd was Merv Griffin. It's an eclectic group of people, isn't it?

ROWLANDS: Yes. There are three honorary pallbearers, Charles Wick who is a longtime friend of the Reagans; Fred Ryan, who worked in the Reagan White House; and Merv Griffin. They have been dubbed the honorary pallbearers that have made the trip here to Santa Monica.

There will be other pallbearers as well as the journey begins here and extends into services not only in Simi Valley, but also in Washington, D.C. But you're right. Because Mr. Reagan had very close ties not only in Washington, but here in California and in Hollywood, there is a eclectic group that is mourning collectively the loss of the president.

PHILLIPS: Quite an eclectic group of security too. I know it has been named a national special security event, working closely with the Secret Service and also with the military, of course, from the air to the ground. Can you give us a feel for just the type of individuals that are allowed even somewhat close to the mortuary? Are there crowds on the outside of the perimeter that have showed up also just to see the motorcade?

ROWLANDS: Yes, well, people will be lining the route, if you will, here in Santa Monica. It has been made public, but then of course, this motorcade will hit the freeways until it gets to Simi Valley. So people in the public -- now you hear the crowd applauding Mrs. Reagan, as she steps into the limousine and gets ready to accompany her late husband back to the library.

But the enthusiasm of the crowd, you know, it has been reverent. The people have just come really to absorb this moment in history. A lot of people have brought their children here. People of all ages are here watching this, and just taking in this moment of history.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Tell us a little bit, Ted, about what we anticipate seeing at the other end of this journey at the library today.

ROWLANDS: Well, a lot of people, of course, have made their way up to the presidential library in Simi Valley because the family made it clear that they want people in California to have the opportunity to take part in this process, so the president will lie in repose for not only the rest of today but through the night, extending all the way until to tomorrow evening at 6:30, giving as many members of the public as possible a chance to take part in this mourning process.

As you see now, the hearse is moving, it will lead this procession to the Reagan Library. Once it is there members of the public at noon Pacific time will begin strolling by and have an opportunity to walk by the flag-draped coffin and pay their respects to Mr. Reagan. PHILLIPS: As Ted mentioned, as the motorcade now begins, the body of the former president of the United States, Ronald Reagan now traveling by motorcade, not far behind, Nancy Reagan, also Ron Reagan, Michael Reagan, Patti Davis, Reagan's children, all closely side by side with the former first lady.

As the motorcade moves from Santa Monica, California, to Simi Valley, where the Reagan Presidential Library is, that's where we find our David Mattingly. He's standing by, waiting, of course, for this motorcade to make its way closer to him.

David, why don't you tell us about what it's like there now at the presidential library and I'm sure there are a lot of well-wishers awaiting the arrival of the president's body.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here at the library, a great deal of activity at this hour. Right now, they're preparing for when that procession arrives here at the library that you see behind me, and when that procession arrives, there will be a short ceremony in which the president's casket will be taken inside the library in a ceremony.

Members of all different the different branches of the military will be participating in that ceremony. The casket will be placed there where the public viewing will take place later today. Already we've heard sounds coming from rehearsals from the military band playing "My Country Tis of Thee" and passages of "Hail to the Chief" at times today.

So notes of patriotism today as well as a solemn occasion for the people when they come up here. And once that ceremony is done and the family has left, that's when the public will be allowed to come in here and there are some ground rules that the public will need to be aware of. There will be no cell phones and no cameras allowed into the viewing area where the president's casket is. There will be a continuous line going through there, allowing as many people as possible, they say, to come in, view the casket pay their respects and then keep moving.

There will be -- no one will be allowed to stand and look for any long particular period of time. The entire experience may take less than five minutes, but they are expecting, Kyra, thousands of people to come here. There will be gathering down at the bottom of the hill at a nearby college campus where they will be taking municipal buses, one bus at a time up here to the library, and one bus at a time, they will unload, go through, load back up and then head back down the hill back to their cars - Kyra.

PHILLIPS: David -- go ahead, Miles.

O'BRIEN: That's all right. Just a quick thought, David. I'm struck by how this week of remembrance, this somber week that we're just embarking on, both begins and ends in California, and clearly that California -- his California roots are showing here in the way he is being remembered. MATTINGLY: Yes, Ronald Reagan, we shouldn't forget, was very much Hollywood before he became part of the California political scene and then moving onto Washington. You were talking about the eclectic mix of people who are part of his inner circle. That reflects the long and rich life that he did have here in California. Very much a part of the entertainment business, the very big industry here in Southern California, very much, of course, a part of the political scene here as governor of California before going on to Washington.

While he wasn't born here, this place very much became his home, and very early on, when this library was being built, the Reagans themselves decided that this location, where the presidential library is, is where they wanted their final resting place to be. And that's what we will see on Friday when the president's casket is returned from Washington, the burial services here at the presidential library. So again, beginning and ending right here in California -- Miles.

PHILLIPS: We're going to ask to you stay with us, David, as we begin -- or continue to watch the motorcade, rather. If you're just tuning in, the body of the former president, Ronald Reagan, right now traveling by motorcade from Santa Monica, California, at the mortuary, headed now to the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley.

Nancy Reagan close behind, also Ronald Reagan's children, Michael, Ron and also Patti Davis with the former first lady. Someone else we want to bring into the mix, Suzanne Malveaux. She's been actually traveling with President Bush. As you know, he's at the G-8 summit, and she is in Savannah, Georgia, not far from where the president is hosting that summit there. He is expected to give the eulogy for the funeral services for the former President Reagan.

Suzanne, let's bring you into the mix here and talk about that and what can you tell us about the president's preparations for the eulogy and also coming to the funeral?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly that is going to happen on Friday, we are told that at the conclusion of the G-8 summit, the president leaving here on Thursday and he is expected to say here through those events. He will deliver that eulogy at the National Cathedral on Friday, of course, making preparations for that.

We also have been told it is Vice President Dick Cheney who in all likelihood is going to be representing the president and the administration on Wednesday's activities, those memorial activities.

Now as you know, Kyra, there a lot of comparisons that have been made between President Reagan and this one, the two of them of course share the same philosophy of cutting taxes, a strong national security. Both of them very much with deep convictions, and a love and affinity for the ranch.

This is a president, as you know, his father, George H. Walker Bush, coming before him, but certainly his administration, many of his aides modeled his presidency after that of Reagan. Reagan really considered to be very much of an elder statesman, a hero to President Bush. This is someone that he feels a great affinity towards and this is something that is he looking forward to doing to -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: The relationship with the Bush family and the Reagan family has been an interesting one, of course, going back to the president's father and his relationship with Ronald Reagan. Can you talk to us, maybe more from a personal standpoint, on this relationship that the president right now, the acting president had with Ronald Reagan? He did spend a lot of time with him, they talked politics of course quite a bit and spent a lot of personal time together.

MALVEAUX: Certainly. And as you may recall, it really was President Bush when he was back in his 20s and early 30s, when spent some time -- first started spending time in the White House, when his father was the vice president under Reagan. He really got to know him as the elder statesman.

This was a Bush that was considerably younger and really looked up to him, but also -- not only looked up to him personally, but also his ideology. This is someone that he modeled his own presidency after. He very much believed in his philosophy of moving forward, of unifying countries and, of course, of taking bold chances, bold risks here.

As you know, Reagan was not popular in Europe when he brought about these dramatic calls for tearing down that wall and a lot of people in Europe questioned, you know, just what it was that he was doing, whether or not he really would be effective in that. Bush sees his own presidency very much the same way, that he faces quite a bit of skepticism from his European allies in terms of the war in Iraq.

It is something that he draws a certain sense of personal comfort when he looks at Reagan's record and realizes, he feels that he is a kind red spirit to what Reagan was trying to do, his mission to bring the world together, to bring the East and the West together. This is something that President Bush also sees as a similarity between the two leaders.

PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the president of the United States, actually, right now, in Georgia, just outside of Savannah, as the president attends the G-8 summit. But as Suzanne mentioned, the president will be attending the former President Ronald Reagan's funeral with personal and professional remarks, giving the eulogy. We, of course, will be covering that for you starting today all the way to Friday. Five days of remembering the former president -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Judy Woodruff is in Simi Valley at the presidential library, and she covered Ronald Reagan when he was in the White House, and has a storehouse of memories she could share with us today, probably more than we have time for.

What are your thoughts today, Judy, as you look at the crowd gathered there and the scene that lies before you?

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS": Miles, so many memories come flooding back. I guess I just keep thinking that I don't think the country has seen anything like this since the funeral of John F. Kennedy, where there was so much of the country...

O'BRIEN: Judy, my apologies. I'm sorry, we have the vice president, Dick Cheney, at the National Press Club, and I'm sure you understand, I don't want to interrupt, but let's go to him briefly, he's going to make a few comments. And we'll get right back to you.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... political rivals and competitors, but grew close over time. It was first discovered that they had actually encountered each other at a distance during an Iowa-Michigan football game. Gerry Ford was on the field playing center for the University of Michigan, and Ronald Reagan was broadcasting for radio station WHO in 1934.

A lifetime afterwards, it would be President Reagan who dedicated the Gerald R. Ford Museum in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a proud day on which President Reagan expressed the nation's gratitude to for Gerald Ford for leading America as a man of decency, a man of honor and a man of healing.

Though it hardly seems possible, the ninth of August will be the 30th anniversary of Gerald Ford's taking the oath of office as president of the United States. In the space of only 10 months, the gentleman from Michigan had risen from the House of Representatives to the vice presidency and then to the presidency itself.

He never aspired to that office and he maintained his modesty the entire time. He used to joke that with him around, the Marine band did not know whether they should play "Hail to the Chief" or "You've Come a Long Way, Baby."

But we all remember the turmoil at that time and the challenges that faced our government in the aftermath of Watergate. We remember as well the character of the man who led our nation safely through a very dark period. America was in a desperate need of strength and wisdom and good judgment, and all of these came to us in the unassuming person of Gerald R. Ford. Calm and civil, forgiving and generous of spirit, our 38th president brought the nation together and restored the dignity of that tainted office.

O'BRIEN: We are listening briefly to the vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney, speaking specifically about former President Gerald Ford, who today at the age of 90 is the oldest living former president.

The reason he's talking about him on this day is that he is there as part of an awards ceremony, the Gerald Ford Awards. And so we're going to step away from that for just a moment. We will be listening for the vice president to see if he has any comments or thoughts or remembrances on Ronald Reagan.

But let's get back to Judy Woodruff, who I interrupted right in mid-thought there. I was just asking to you share some of your thoughts as you connect what's happening today with some of your recollections of Ronald Reagan from your view, sort of in the front row seat of his presidency.

WOODRUFF: You know, Miles, as I was saying, there's so many memories that do come flooding back and I keep comparing this to when I was much younger, the funeral of John F. Kennedy. I don't think we've seen anything like it.

What I do remember about covering the Reagan White House? He was truly larger than life, completely underestimated as a candidate, and when he came to the White House, what we found as reporters was somebody who was surrounded by people who were very media-savvy.

They were people who were very conscious of Ronald Reagan's image every minute on the public scene, and we really hadn't seen anything like that before, and it took us quite a while to figure out how, in many ways, I don't want to say they were pulling the wool over our eyes but they were very good at maximizing whatever was going on to benefit the president at putting him in settings where he looks larger than life, and frankly, at parceling him out.

We didn't have a lot of access to Ronald Reagan. All of us remember those -- you know, the scenes where he would walk from the White House out to get on the helicopter, and we'd be shouting questions as loud as we could and he'd cup his hand to his ear and either he really couldn't hear us or he was pretending he couldn't hear us.

It was a very media-conscious White House, and there was distance that was kept between him and the press. It was done for a reason, and I think it helped to maintain the Reagan aura in many ways.

O'BRIEN: You know, I didn't know you were yelling. All I could hear was Sam Donaldson all those years, Judy. He was so loud.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Let me just -- there's a story that your colleague, Leslie Stahl...

WOODRUFF: I give Sam all that credit, I give him credit for big lungs for sure.

O'BRIEN: He gets the decibel award big time. There's a famous story that Leslie Stahl -- I've heard her tell it many times, about how she did a very hard-hitting -- about the Reagan presidency while she was assigned to the White House, and in order to cover that story with pictures, of course, she used the sort of pictures you just talked about, Ronald Reagan being Ronald Reagan in all of these wonderful settings, looking very presidential, looking very much the matinee idol.

She went into the White House the day after this piece aired, thinking she was going to be scolded by Mike Deaver and all of the people that were in charge of the image, and they were like, no, that was great. That was a great piece because of the images, right? Did you run into that kind of thing?

WOODRUFF: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, Reagan had surrounded himself with people, and Mike Deaver is right at the center of that. Mike Deaver is probably a genius when it comes to working the media and figuring out how to project an image. He had come out of California. That's where he got to know Ronald Reagan when Reagan was governor, and they worked together very closely while Reagan was governor. The same thing had been in effect when Reagan was governor of California for eight years, maximizing the presence, the man the image in many ways.

To turn as many -- sure you're going to have tough days. You're going to have things that come along that knock you over that you're not ready for, but in every instance they were looking for the way to present it to the public that would be favorable to Ronald Reagan, and they showed us how to do it and I'm not sure anybody's done it -- in fact, I don't think anybody's done it as well as they have ever since.

O'BRIEN: Genius is a word that I think would apply, and especially since they were the first to really recognize the power of that image and understand how to use television. I hearken back to January of '81. I was in Washington at that time, just a college kid. And I remember on that balmy January day when Ronald Reagan was sworn in, walking down to Capitol Hill to just hear him, and on our way back, seeing the extra editions of the "The Washington Post" telling us all that the hostages were freed.

There was on air of electricity in the air that I can't recall ever feeling before or after. It was really a sense of a turning point in history. And I think no matter what is said about Ronald Reagan up or down, he was there at a pivotal moment.

WOODRUFF: You're right. and Miles, it's good that you bring that up because that was such fortuitous timing for Ronald Reagan. As you know, Jimmy Carter, the Iranian hostage crisis that plagued the last year of his presidency. The media was riveted on the fact that the hostage crisis went on. They were still being held during the election. And it was only literally as Ronald Reagan took office on that day that the hostages came out of Iran.

You couldn't have asked for a better signal, if you will, starting his presidency. It meant that the -- Jimmy Carter and all of the people who had worked for him, went out of office feeling not just defeated but doubly and triply defeated because of the way the hostage crisis had resolved.

And it meant that Ronald Reagan, again, came into office, lifted up by this incredible piece of good news. And you know, not to say it lasted forever, his administration certainly had its ups and downs, certainly in the second half of his administration, the second term, but it was the kind of news that they very much played off of and made the most of.

O'BRIEN: You know, there's a piece that our colleague, Howard Kurtz, wrote today or yesterday in "The Washington Post" talking about how, lest we forget the level of harsh press that Mr. Reagan received in periods and in spurts during his presidency, he was, after all, called the teflon president, because there were occasions when stories would be written, pieces would be aired, where we'd point out that perhaps the president wasn't focused in on precisely the facts of the issue.

I'm thinking of, for example, you know, trees cause pollution, those kinds of statements. But the American public always forgave President Reagan. As we look at it, boy, look at that flag being suspended by, it looks like by a couple of ladder trucks there in the middle of the interstate as the procession goes underneath, that's spectacular. But in any case, the public always forgave -- that is spectacular there. The public always forgave President Reagan those little factual issues, didn't they?

WOODRUFF: They really did. He figured out how to communicate with people. And we've done a lot of thinking the last few days, rethinking about why that was, what was it that gave him that ability to connect with people? It clearly started well before he became president and even well before he was governor of California.

He was out on the circuit, we remember, for General Electric, for GE, and he was speaking, he was giving inspirational speeches all over the country, and I think David Broder, with the "The Washington Post," and others have -- who met him back then said, they went to hear him, and it was like somebody really extraordinary had come along.

He had an ability that I think most politicians only dream about to connect with people. We're not saying that people agreed with everything he said, but he clearly had a magic, if you will, a way of connecting, that I think lifted him up and over and through some of these very controversial and the kind of times that other politicians would -- you know, would really struggle with.

Reagan was able to rise above, because people were giving him the benefit of the doubt time and again. We saw that. You mentioned, you know, the slips of the tongue, where they'd come out in the newspaper the next day and they'd say there were 23 mistakes in that news conference. But people didn't care, and I think they were willing to forgive a lot.

I think the Iran hostage crisis in the second term of his administration, where it was revealed that President Reagan had signed off on a plan to trade the hostages -- or trade arms, rather, for the contras in Nicaragua, these were the rebels who were fighting the Sandinista communist regime in Nicaragua, that put a dent in Ronald Reagan's reputation.

But you know, even that, as we look back today, it's like just a speck in the eight jeers of his presidency.

O'BRIEN: Well, it certainly didn't preclude his vice president from ascending to the presidency, and so I guess that would be one way...

WOODRUFF: Sure didn't. O'BRIEN: ... to judge that. I think -- and this has been said time and again, but that whole sense of optimism. He really made Americans feel good about being American again after so many dark years from Vietnam through Watergate, through the hostage crisis in Iran. It was such a long spell national malaise, if you will, and that breath of fresh air meant I think meant so much to Americans. They were willing to forgive him for a lot of the 23 inaccuracies that we would quibble about.

WODDRUFF: But Miles, I think we need to be -- you know, we need to be -- you know, to cover the whole story, it is the case that many Americans did not agree with what Ronald Reagan was trying to do in cutting the size of government.

They might have agreed with it in -- you know, in theory, but in practice, there were many programs where support for people who were either poor or who were used to receiving government support, were cut back. Some of those turned out to be good decisions. Some of those did hurt people.

And I think that there's a debate that rages on even today about the wisdom of that. You've got -- you know, we talk a lot right now in 2004 about how divided this country is politically. I would say there's still some pretty sharp divisions in this country about the wisdom of Reagan's philosophy of cutting government and building up defenses.

Overall, absolutely, he is seen as a strong leader, someone who people admire. They admired his optimism, that I think you get widespread agreement on. But I think in terms of the practical effects of his presidency, there are divisions and there are disagreements still.

O'BRIEN: Remind us, though, as our memories fade, I think we forget some of the rancor of the moment. And when we talk these days about how terribly partisan and divided Washington is, the Washington of Ronald Reagan's first term was harshly divided over his very dramatic tax cut proposal, among other things. Was it really more amicable back then or are we just forgetting?

WOODRUFF: It was more amicable. Yes, there were sharp partisan differences and disagreements and arguments and all the rest of it, but at the end of the day, I mean, the stories are told about how at the end of the day, or after disagreeing with each other in public, Ronald Reagan and the House Democratic speaker, the famed Tip O'Neill of Massachusetts, would sit down and have a drink together.

This wasn't something that happened every day and I don't want to overstate it, but there at least was conversation. There was some socializing going on between Democrats and Republicans. We don't have much of that today. This is a more harshly partisan time, I think everybody would agree, than what we had back in the early and the mid '80s when Reagan was president.

Yes, the differences were there. Yes, Democrats opposed the idea of those tax cuts. And in fact, Ronald Reagan, the pragmatist, ultimate agreed within a few years after those tax cuts that he had to turn around and raise taxes in order to get the budget in balance and work out some of the federal spending programs that meant so much to people. He didn't like what he was doing but did agree to do it. And there was just more give and take. Today you don't see nearly as much of that.

O'BRIEN: You know, it's interesting, though, as you mentioned that, Judy, one man's pragmatism is another man's waffling. And I never heard anybody say Ronald Reagan was a waffler. He navigated the shoals between pragmatism and ideology so deftly, I can't imagine any more skilled politician in that regard.

WOODRUFF: I'm sorry, I just missed you. Somebody else was talking in my ear. Miles, could you repeat the question?

O'BRIEN: Oh, well, what we are basically saying is -- you were saying that ultimately he raised taxes, and some would view that as flip-flop or a waffle, and yet no one would ever accuse Ronald Reagan of a waffle. And yet no one would ever accuse Ronald Reagan of waffling. So how was he able to kind of navigate those shoals of pragmatism versus ideology and be viewed as somebody who sticks to his guns and yet be a horse trader?

WOODRUFF: You know, I think that is the interesting question that gets right to the heart of who Ronald Reagan was, as the incredibly important political figure, public figure that he was in American life. Absolutely, he had his principles. He believed in a smaller federal government. He wanted those tax cuts. He believed in doing anything he could to bring an end to communism. He had those goals and he wasn't relenting on that.

But at the same time, and somebody said this to me yesterday, I was talking to him -- it was Jim Baker, who was his chief of staff during the first four years of his presidency. He said Ronald Reagan said to me if I can get 80 percent of what I want on the way to my goal, I'll take it. I realize that sometimes part of a loaf is better than no loaf at all.

And I think that was his view. You do have to give along the way, but in the back of his mind that goal was still there. I think it was more like two steps forward and maybe half a step back but then let's keep moving toward the goal.

O'BRIEN: Judy Woodruff, thank you very much. Appreciate your insights as we've been watching the motorcade make its way to where you are, Simi Valley, the Reagan Presidential Library, where there will be a period of time where the public can pay its respects to the former president who, the more you talk about him, the more remarkable a man he was.

PHILLIPS: Our David Mattingly is in there in Simi Valley, California where the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library is. If you're just tuning in, about a half an hour or so, the body of the former president, Ronald Reagan, was taken from the mortuary in Santa Monica, California, via this motorcade. And right behind him, his wife, Nancy Reagan, also his three kids, Ron Reagan Jr., Michael Reagan, also Patti Davis. The family has been kept very close throughout the day. They went and visited the mortuary. They're now in the motorcade headed to Simi Valley, California.

Of course in Washington, meanwhile, plans right now are under way for the first state funeral in the nation's capital in more than 30 years. We're going to take you now to Simi Valley, California, where our David Mattingly is standing by. We want to make sure we have the connection with you, David. Can you hear me OK?

MATTINGLY: ... talk, it brings back memories of my own. While she had a front row seat covering Ronald Regan from the White House, I was actually covering him with local television stations in Alabama, at the time a very conservative voting place.

But Ronald Reagan was probably, on the power of his personality, responsible for killing the traditional image of the southern Democrat there. By the time he left office, Alabama had become a two-party state with so many conservative Democrats finally calling themselves Republicans.

And he was able to do it by multiple visits to that state. And every time that he showed up, he had such a genuine quality about him. He made people believe that he was just so happy to be here, that he connected with hundreds of people at a time every time he walked into a room. And his speeches were also very carefully crafted to speak to the people there and their concerns.

At the time, gas prices were coming down under $1 a gallon and he made the comment, don't you just love how the gallon sign is now turning faster at the pump than the dollar sign? Now by saying it like that, people could relate to it instantly, a big cheer went up in the auditorium and people were very happy that their president was at least paying attention to some of the problems that they were having in their everyday lives.

And there was one priceless moment at one time, Kyra, the president spoke in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And on his way back to catch Air Force One at the airport, he stopped at a McDonald's. It was completely unplanned, caught the Secret Service by surprise, caught everyone in that McDonald's by surprise.

The president walked in, walked up to the counter and he stood and looked a little confused when he looked at the menu. And he turned to the person next to him and said, "What's good here?" And this guy who was there for lunch turned to him, said, "Well, I would recommend the Big Mac."

So that's what the president ordered. He got the Big Mac and fries, got back in the car and went on. But no one was walking about his speech after that that day. It was the fact that the president stopped at McDonald's.

Again, a way that he had of connecting with everyday people there. And again it paid off in a big way for the Republican Party. Again, by the time he left office, Alabama was a two-party state, again, completely because of the power of the personality of Ronald Reagan.

PHILLIPS: David, you bring up a really good point about just how he connected with people, how personal he was. I remember having the chance to go back to Illinois from his birthplace up until college and meeting some of his friends that he grew up with. I mean from childhood.

And to this day, these friends of his in their early 90s, late 80s, have these handwritten notes. And it has the presidential seal. I remember the notes. It had the presidential seal, his name. And he just jotted on these notes with a pencil or a pen.

I remember one of his childhood friends, Tubby. "Hey, Tubby. How you doing? Life here in the White House is really grand."

I mean they were these very down-to-earth, genuine, friend-to- friend type notes. He really did maintain that.

I learned as I went back to these small towns in Illinois, and heard from friends of his -- and I'm curious, in the presidential library there in Simi Valley, unfortunately I've not had a chance to go there and visit inside. Have you toured it extensively? There are a lot of those handwritten notes, handwritten letters? He was so well-known for that.

MATTINGLY: Well I can tell you what they do have here. There is -- so much of the library work is dedicated to him as president. But there's so much of the library also dedicated to his personal life. In there you will find the booth in which he -- the diner booth in which he proposed to Nancy Reagan.

There also are other things there. An exhibit that calls to attention his short career as a sports broadcaster.

So again, a rich and very diverse career and life for Ronald Reagan. And all of it on display here.

PHILLIPS: Our David Mattingly there in Simi Valley, California.

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Aired June 7, 2004 - 13:00   ET
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KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, live pictures from Santa Monica, California. This is the mortuary right now where the body of the former president is to travel from motorcade in Santa Monica, California, to the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley out front. You see members of the family.
We saw Nancy Reagan just moments ago. Also, Ron Reagan, Jr. and Michael Reagan, and also Patti Davis, the daughter, out there in front. Nancy Reagan spending a little time inside the mortuary before getting involved with the motorcade and moving forward to the next place of remembrance.

O'BRIEN: It was a sad moment seeing her. And I note I'm sure it's a coincidence, but this is the Little Chapel of the Dawn. This is the president who told us it was morning in America again here at the mortuary of the Little Chapel of the Dawn on his way shortly to Simi Valley. Ultimately, he will be burried in a crypt there at the Reagan Presidential Library. But in the interim, there will be a state funeral in Washington.

So it will be a weeklong remembrance of Ronald Reagan that we are embarked upon. That procession that we're telling you about is scheduled to begin probably five minutes from now. The trip to Simi Valley, as we say, 45 miles, could take an hour.

Ted Rowlands is there in Santa Monica and has been watching the scene and watching the remembrances, the spontaneous remembrances that have been left there, as well as the arrival of friends and family members of Ronald Reagan. Ted, what have you been seeing?

ROWLANDS: Well, I can tell you that Mrs. Reagan is in right now finishing up her private time. And now the front doors have just opened and the casket is being brought out, the flag-draped casket containing the remains of former President Reagan.

Each member of the armed forces is represented in the pallbearing duties, as they bring it out step by step. The remains will be taken, as you mentioned, by motorcade to Simi Valley. That will take place as soon as everything is set. And that journey is expected to take about an hour.

The family members are all together in front of the limousine holding hands. Michael Reagan has been fighting back tears and openly weeping here as he looked at the memorial outside here. Patti Davis was by Mrs. Reagan's side as she took a look at all of the memorial well wishes that the former first lady came by to read. Mrs. Reagan is expected to also follow, come out the front door. And there you see her preparing to walk out of the front door of the mortuary. She will follow her husband's remains as they are loaded into the limousine. And the beginning of a very long and most undoubtedly painful week will begin for the Reagan family as they allow the public to join them in remembering and paying tribute to Ronald Reagan.

O'BRIEN: Ted, as we watch the remains being moved to the hearse with the honor guard, give us a little flavor. We've seen the flags. Give us a flavor of the kinds of messages. I hear some...

PHILLIPS: You can hear everybody cheering.

O'BRIEN: ... applause and cheers. Is there a fairly large crowd around you outside the security cordon there?

ROWLANDS: Yes, there is a huge crowd of people. You can't see them because they've been put back behind a barricade. The entire street has been sealed off. But they can see from across the street the remains being loaded into the hearse. And when they first saw the image of the flag-draped casket, they applauded.

And they have been out here steadily since getting word that the president had died and that he was brought here to Santa Monica. The well-wishing, in terms of notes, is extensive. Some are quick and just little phrases. One says, "Thanks, Dutch. Thank you, Ronald Reagan. Well done, good and faithful servant." Pictures, little mementos, a lot of American flags as well.

People truly touched by the loss of a president. Everybody has a personal relationship that they've developed with a president. And people came here and talked extensively about their feelings and thoughts about Ronald Reagan, as you see in Mrs. Reagan watching the casket being loaded into the hearse here before the journey to Simi Valley starts in the next few minutes.

PHILLIPS: Ted, you see all the members of the military there. And as we saw, the pictures, even overnight, a lot of well wishers coming all throughout the night. And very powerful images of members of the military coming out here to this reflecting pool and just saluting, saluting what they were looking at, and just spending time there of moments of reflection. Not just the family, but so many supporters.

ROWLANDS: Yes. A lot of veterans have made their way over here to pay their respects to the former commander in chief. Of course with the Normandy recognition going on as well on Sunday, there were a lot of vets that simply came here to take time and spend some time in front of this memorial. We did see the images of a lot of folks standing and seemingly praying, and then saluting and walking off. A lot of them brought to tears by it.

The Reagan family is all together today, except, of course, Maureen Reagan, who died of cancer in 2001. She would have been the oldest -- she is the oldest child. But she, of course, died in 2001. The rest of the family is now exiting and making their way to their vehicles as they get ready to join the procession to the Reagan Library.

O'BRIEN: Ted, aside from the family members, one of the faces I recognized in the crowd was Merv Griffin. It's an eclectic group of people, isn't it?

ROWLANDS: Yes. There are three honorary pallbearers, Charles Wick who is a longtime friend of the Reagans; Fred Ryan, who worked in the Reagan White House; and Merv Griffin. They have been dubbed the honorary pallbearers that have made the trip here to Santa Monica.

There will be other pallbearers as well as the journey begins here and extends into services not only in Simi Valley, but also in Washington, D.C. But you're right. Because Mr. Reagan had very close ties not only in Washington, but here in California and in Hollywood, there is a eclectic group that is mourning collectively the loss of the president.

PHILLIPS: Quite an eclectic group of security too. I know it has been named a national special security event, working closely with the Secret Service and also with the military, of course, from the air to the ground. Can you give us a feel for just the type of individuals that are allowed even somewhat close to the mortuary? Are there crowds on the outside of the perimeter that have showed up also just to see the motorcade?

ROWLANDS: Yes, well, people will be lining the route, if you will, here in Santa Monica. It has been made public, but then of course, this motorcade will hit the freeways until it gets to Simi Valley. So people in the public -- now you hear the crowd applauding Mrs. Reagan, as she steps into the limousine and gets ready to accompany her late husband back to the library.

But the enthusiasm of the crowd, you know, it has been reverent. The people have just come really to absorb this moment in history. A lot of people have brought their children here. People of all ages are here watching this, and just taking in this moment of history.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Tell us a little bit, Ted, about what we anticipate seeing at the other end of this journey at the library today.

ROWLANDS: Well, a lot of people, of course, have made their way up to the presidential library in Simi Valley because the family made it clear that they want people in California to have the opportunity to take part in this process, so the president will lie in repose for not only the rest of today but through the night, extending all the way until to tomorrow evening at 6:30, giving as many members of the public as possible a chance to take part in this mourning process.

As you see now, the hearse is moving, it will lead this procession to the Reagan Library. Once it is there members of the public at noon Pacific time will begin strolling by and have an opportunity to walk by the flag-draped coffin and pay their respects to Mr. Reagan. PHILLIPS: As Ted mentioned, as the motorcade now begins, the body of the former president of the United States, Ronald Reagan now traveling by motorcade, not far behind, Nancy Reagan, also Ron Reagan, Michael Reagan, Patti Davis, Reagan's children, all closely side by side with the former first lady.

As the motorcade moves from Santa Monica, California, to Simi Valley, where the Reagan Presidential Library is, that's where we find our David Mattingly. He's standing by, waiting, of course, for this motorcade to make its way closer to him.

David, why don't you tell us about what it's like there now at the presidential library and I'm sure there are a lot of well-wishers awaiting the arrival of the president's body.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here at the library, a great deal of activity at this hour. Right now, they're preparing for when that procession arrives here at the library that you see behind me, and when that procession arrives, there will be a short ceremony in which the president's casket will be taken inside the library in a ceremony.

Members of all different the different branches of the military will be participating in that ceremony. The casket will be placed there where the public viewing will take place later today. Already we've heard sounds coming from rehearsals from the military band playing "My Country Tis of Thee" and passages of "Hail to the Chief" at times today.

So notes of patriotism today as well as a solemn occasion for the people when they come up here. And once that ceremony is done and the family has left, that's when the public will be allowed to come in here and there are some ground rules that the public will need to be aware of. There will be no cell phones and no cameras allowed into the viewing area where the president's casket is. There will be a continuous line going through there, allowing as many people as possible, they say, to come in, view the casket pay their respects and then keep moving.

There will be -- no one will be allowed to stand and look for any long particular period of time. The entire experience may take less than five minutes, but they are expecting, Kyra, thousands of people to come here. There will be gathering down at the bottom of the hill at a nearby college campus where they will be taking municipal buses, one bus at a time up here to the library, and one bus at a time, they will unload, go through, load back up and then head back down the hill back to their cars - Kyra.

PHILLIPS: David -- go ahead, Miles.

O'BRIEN: That's all right. Just a quick thought, David. I'm struck by how this week of remembrance, this somber week that we're just embarking on, both begins and ends in California, and clearly that California -- his California roots are showing here in the way he is being remembered. MATTINGLY: Yes, Ronald Reagan, we shouldn't forget, was very much Hollywood before he became part of the California political scene and then moving onto Washington. You were talking about the eclectic mix of people who are part of his inner circle. That reflects the long and rich life that he did have here in California. Very much a part of the entertainment business, the very big industry here in Southern California, very much, of course, a part of the political scene here as governor of California before going on to Washington.

While he wasn't born here, this place very much became his home, and very early on, when this library was being built, the Reagans themselves decided that this location, where the presidential library is, is where they wanted their final resting place to be. And that's what we will see on Friday when the president's casket is returned from Washington, the burial services here at the presidential library. So again, beginning and ending right here in California -- Miles.

PHILLIPS: We're going to ask to you stay with us, David, as we begin -- or continue to watch the motorcade, rather. If you're just tuning in, the body of the former president, Ronald Reagan, right now traveling by motorcade from Santa Monica, California, at the mortuary, headed now to the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley.

Nancy Reagan close behind, also Ronald Reagan's children, Michael, Ron and also Patti Davis with the former first lady. Someone else we want to bring into the mix, Suzanne Malveaux. She's been actually traveling with President Bush. As you know, he's at the G-8 summit, and she is in Savannah, Georgia, not far from where the president is hosting that summit there. He is expected to give the eulogy for the funeral services for the former President Reagan.

Suzanne, let's bring you into the mix here and talk about that and what can you tell us about the president's preparations for the eulogy and also coming to the funeral?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly that is going to happen on Friday, we are told that at the conclusion of the G-8 summit, the president leaving here on Thursday and he is expected to say here through those events. He will deliver that eulogy at the National Cathedral on Friday, of course, making preparations for that.

We also have been told it is Vice President Dick Cheney who in all likelihood is going to be representing the president and the administration on Wednesday's activities, those memorial activities.

Now as you know, Kyra, there a lot of comparisons that have been made between President Reagan and this one, the two of them of course share the same philosophy of cutting taxes, a strong national security. Both of them very much with deep convictions, and a love and affinity for the ranch.

This is a president, as you know, his father, George H. Walker Bush, coming before him, but certainly his administration, many of his aides modeled his presidency after that of Reagan. Reagan really considered to be very much of an elder statesman, a hero to President Bush. This is someone that he feels a great affinity towards and this is something that is he looking forward to doing to -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: The relationship with the Bush family and the Reagan family has been an interesting one, of course, going back to the president's father and his relationship with Ronald Reagan. Can you talk to us, maybe more from a personal standpoint, on this relationship that the president right now, the acting president had with Ronald Reagan? He did spend a lot of time with him, they talked politics of course quite a bit and spent a lot of personal time together.

MALVEAUX: Certainly. And as you may recall, it really was President Bush when he was back in his 20s and early 30s, when spent some time -- first started spending time in the White House, when his father was the vice president under Reagan. He really got to know him as the elder statesman.

This was a Bush that was considerably younger and really looked up to him, but also -- not only looked up to him personally, but also his ideology. This is someone that he modeled his own presidency after. He very much believed in his philosophy of moving forward, of unifying countries and, of course, of taking bold chances, bold risks here.

As you know, Reagan was not popular in Europe when he brought about these dramatic calls for tearing down that wall and a lot of people in Europe questioned, you know, just what it was that he was doing, whether or not he really would be effective in that. Bush sees his own presidency very much the same way, that he faces quite a bit of skepticism from his European allies in terms of the war in Iraq.

It is something that he draws a certain sense of personal comfort when he looks at Reagan's record and realizes, he feels that he is a kind red spirit to what Reagan was trying to do, his mission to bring the world together, to bring the East and the West together. This is something that President Bush also sees as a similarity between the two leaders.

PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the president of the United States, actually, right now, in Georgia, just outside of Savannah, as the president attends the G-8 summit. But as Suzanne mentioned, the president will be attending the former President Ronald Reagan's funeral with personal and professional remarks, giving the eulogy. We, of course, will be covering that for you starting today all the way to Friday. Five days of remembering the former president -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Judy Woodruff is in Simi Valley at the presidential library, and she covered Ronald Reagan when he was in the White House, and has a storehouse of memories she could share with us today, probably more than we have time for.

What are your thoughts today, Judy, as you look at the crowd gathered there and the scene that lies before you?

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS": Miles, so many memories come flooding back. I guess I just keep thinking that I don't think the country has seen anything like this since the funeral of John F. Kennedy, where there was so much of the country...

O'BRIEN: Judy, my apologies. I'm sorry, we have the vice president, Dick Cheney, at the National Press Club, and I'm sure you understand, I don't want to interrupt, but let's go to him briefly, he's going to make a few comments. And we'll get right back to you.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... political rivals and competitors, but grew close over time. It was first discovered that they had actually encountered each other at a distance during an Iowa-Michigan football game. Gerry Ford was on the field playing center for the University of Michigan, and Ronald Reagan was broadcasting for radio station WHO in 1934.

A lifetime afterwards, it would be President Reagan who dedicated the Gerald R. Ford Museum in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a proud day on which President Reagan expressed the nation's gratitude to for Gerald Ford for leading America as a man of decency, a man of honor and a man of healing.

Though it hardly seems possible, the ninth of August will be the 30th anniversary of Gerald Ford's taking the oath of office as president of the United States. In the space of only 10 months, the gentleman from Michigan had risen from the House of Representatives to the vice presidency and then to the presidency itself.

He never aspired to that office and he maintained his modesty the entire time. He used to joke that with him around, the Marine band did not know whether they should play "Hail to the Chief" or "You've Come a Long Way, Baby."

But we all remember the turmoil at that time and the challenges that faced our government in the aftermath of Watergate. We remember as well the character of the man who led our nation safely through a very dark period. America was in a desperate need of strength and wisdom and good judgment, and all of these came to us in the unassuming person of Gerald R. Ford. Calm and civil, forgiving and generous of spirit, our 38th president brought the nation together and restored the dignity of that tainted office.

O'BRIEN: We are listening briefly to the vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney, speaking specifically about former President Gerald Ford, who today at the age of 90 is the oldest living former president.

The reason he's talking about him on this day is that he is there as part of an awards ceremony, the Gerald Ford Awards. And so we're going to step away from that for just a moment. We will be listening for the vice president to see if he has any comments or thoughts or remembrances on Ronald Reagan.

But let's get back to Judy Woodruff, who I interrupted right in mid-thought there. I was just asking to you share some of your thoughts as you connect what's happening today with some of your recollections of Ronald Reagan from your view, sort of in the front row seat of his presidency.

WOODRUFF: You know, Miles, as I was saying, there's so many memories that do come flooding back and I keep comparing this to when I was much younger, the funeral of John F. Kennedy. I don't think we've seen anything like it.

What I do remember about covering the Reagan White House? He was truly larger than life, completely underestimated as a candidate, and when he came to the White House, what we found as reporters was somebody who was surrounded by people who were very media-savvy.

They were people who were very conscious of Ronald Reagan's image every minute on the public scene, and we really hadn't seen anything like that before, and it took us quite a while to figure out how, in many ways, I don't want to say they were pulling the wool over our eyes but they were very good at maximizing whatever was going on to benefit the president at putting him in settings where he looks larger than life, and frankly, at parceling him out.

We didn't have a lot of access to Ronald Reagan. All of us remember those -- you know, the scenes where he would walk from the White House out to get on the helicopter, and we'd be shouting questions as loud as we could and he'd cup his hand to his ear and either he really couldn't hear us or he was pretending he couldn't hear us.

It was a very media-conscious White House, and there was distance that was kept between him and the press. It was done for a reason, and I think it helped to maintain the Reagan aura in many ways.

O'BRIEN: You know, I didn't know you were yelling. All I could hear was Sam Donaldson all those years, Judy. He was so loud.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Let me just -- there's a story that your colleague, Leslie Stahl...

WOODRUFF: I give Sam all that credit, I give him credit for big lungs for sure.

O'BRIEN: He gets the decibel award big time. There's a famous story that Leslie Stahl -- I've heard her tell it many times, about how she did a very hard-hitting -- about the Reagan presidency while she was assigned to the White House, and in order to cover that story with pictures, of course, she used the sort of pictures you just talked about, Ronald Reagan being Ronald Reagan in all of these wonderful settings, looking very presidential, looking very much the matinee idol.

She went into the White House the day after this piece aired, thinking she was going to be scolded by Mike Deaver and all of the people that were in charge of the image, and they were like, no, that was great. That was a great piece because of the images, right? Did you run into that kind of thing?

WOODRUFF: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, Reagan had surrounded himself with people, and Mike Deaver is right at the center of that. Mike Deaver is probably a genius when it comes to working the media and figuring out how to project an image. He had come out of California. That's where he got to know Ronald Reagan when Reagan was governor, and they worked together very closely while Reagan was governor. The same thing had been in effect when Reagan was governor of California for eight years, maximizing the presence, the man the image in many ways.

To turn as many -- sure you're going to have tough days. You're going to have things that come along that knock you over that you're not ready for, but in every instance they were looking for the way to present it to the public that would be favorable to Ronald Reagan, and they showed us how to do it and I'm not sure anybody's done it -- in fact, I don't think anybody's done it as well as they have ever since.

O'BRIEN: Genius is a word that I think would apply, and especially since they were the first to really recognize the power of that image and understand how to use television. I hearken back to January of '81. I was in Washington at that time, just a college kid. And I remember on that balmy January day when Ronald Reagan was sworn in, walking down to Capitol Hill to just hear him, and on our way back, seeing the extra editions of the "The Washington Post" telling us all that the hostages were freed.

There was on air of electricity in the air that I can't recall ever feeling before or after. It was really a sense of a turning point in history. And I think no matter what is said about Ronald Reagan up or down, he was there at a pivotal moment.

WOODRUFF: You're right. and Miles, it's good that you bring that up because that was such fortuitous timing for Ronald Reagan. As you know, Jimmy Carter, the Iranian hostage crisis that plagued the last year of his presidency. The media was riveted on the fact that the hostage crisis went on. They were still being held during the election. And it was only literally as Ronald Reagan took office on that day that the hostages came out of Iran.

You couldn't have asked for a better signal, if you will, starting his presidency. It meant that the -- Jimmy Carter and all of the people who had worked for him, went out of office feeling not just defeated but doubly and triply defeated because of the way the hostage crisis had resolved.

And it meant that Ronald Reagan, again, came into office, lifted up by this incredible piece of good news. And you know, not to say it lasted forever, his administration certainly had its ups and downs, certainly in the second half of his administration, the second term, but it was the kind of news that they very much played off of and made the most of.

O'BRIEN: You know, there's a piece that our colleague, Howard Kurtz, wrote today or yesterday in "The Washington Post" talking about how, lest we forget the level of harsh press that Mr. Reagan received in periods and in spurts during his presidency, he was, after all, called the teflon president, because there were occasions when stories would be written, pieces would be aired, where we'd point out that perhaps the president wasn't focused in on precisely the facts of the issue.

I'm thinking of, for example, you know, trees cause pollution, those kinds of statements. But the American public always forgave President Reagan. As we look at it, boy, look at that flag being suspended by, it looks like by a couple of ladder trucks there in the middle of the interstate as the procession goes underneath, that's spectacular. But in any case, the public always forgave -- that is spectacular there. The public always forgave President Reagan those little factual issues, didn't they?

WOODRUFF: They really did. He figured out how to communicate with people. And we've done a lot of thinking the last few days, rethinking about why that was, what was it that gave him that ability to connect with people? It clearly started well before he became president and even well before he was governor of California.

He was out on the circuit, we remember, for General Electric, for GE, and he was speaking, he was giving inspirational speeches all over the country, and I think David Broder, with the "The Washington Post," and others have -- who met him back then said, they went to hear him, and it was like somebody really extraordinary had come along.

He had an ability that I think most politicians only dream about to connect with people. We're not saying that people agreed with everything he said, but he clearly had a magic, if you will, a way of connecting, that I think lifted him up and over and through some of these very controversial and the kind of times that other politicians would -- you know, would really struggle with.

Reagan was able to rise above, because people were giving him the benefit of the doubt time and again. We saw that. You mentioned, you know, the slips of the tongue, where they'd come out in the newspaper the next day and they'd say there were 23 mistakes in that news conference. But people didn't care, and I think they were willing to forgive a lot.

I think the Iran hostage crisis in the second term of his administration, where it was revealed that President Reagan had signed off on a plan to trade the hostages -- or trade arms, rather, for the contras in Nicaragua, these were the rebels who were fighting the Sandinista communist regime in Nicaragua, that put a dent in Ronald Reagan's reputation.

But you know, even that, as we look back today, it's like just a speck in the eight jeers of his presidency.

O'BRIEN: Well, it certainly didn't preclude his vice president from ascending to the presidency, and so I guess that would be one way...

WOODRUFF: Sure didn't. O'BRIEN: ... to judge that. I think -- and this has been said time and again, but that whole sense of optimism. He really made Americans feel good about being American again after so many dark years from Vietnam through Watergate, through the hostage crisis in Iran. It was such a long spell national malaise, if you will, and that breath of fresh air meant I think meant so much to Americans. They were willing to forgive him for a lot of the 23 inaccuracies that we would quibble about.

WODDRUFF: But Miles, I think we need to be -- you know, we need to be -- you know, to cover the whole story, it is the case that many Americans did not agree with what Ronald Reagan was trying to do in cutting the size of government.

They might have agreed with it in -- you know, in theory, but in practice, there were many programs where support for people who were either poor or who were used to receiving government support, were cut back. Some of those turned out to be good decisions. Some of those did hurt people.

And I think that there's a debate that rages on even today about the wisdom of that. You've got -- you know, we talk a lot right now in 2004 about how divided this country is politically. I would say there's still some pretty sharp divisions in this country about the wisdom of Reagan's philosophy of cutting government and building up defenses.

Overall, absolutely, he is seen as a strong leader, someone who people admire. They admired his optimism, that I think you get widespread agreement on. But I think in terms of the practical effects of his presidency, there are divisions and there are disagreements still.

O'BRIEN: Remind us, though, as our memories fade, I think we forget some of the rancor of the moment. And when we talk these days about how terribly partisan and divided Washington is, the Washington of Ronald Reagan's first term was harshly divided over his very dramatic tax cut proposal, among other things. Was it really more amicable back then or are we just forgetting?

WOODRUFF: It was more amicable. Yes, there were sharp partisan differences and disagreements and arguments and all the rest of it, but at the end of the day, I mean, the stories are told about how at the end of the day, or after disagreeing with each other in public, Ronald Reagan and the House Democratic speaker, the famed Tip O'Neill of Massachusetts, would sit down and have a drink together.

This wasn't something that happened every day and I don't want to overstate it, but there at least was conversation. There was some socializing going on between Democrats and Republicans. We don't have much of that today. This is a more harshly partisan time, I think everybody would agree, than what we had back in the early and the mid '80s when Reagan was president.

Yes, the differences were there. Yes, Democrats opposed the idea of those tax cuts. And in fact, Ronald Reagan, the pragmatist, ultimate agreed within a few years after those tax cuts that he had to turn around and raise taxes in order to get the budget in balance and work out some of the federal spending programs that meant so much to people. He didn't like what he was doing but did agree to do it. And there was just more give and take. Today you don't see nearly as much of that.

O'BRIEN: You know, it's interesting, though, as you mentioned that, Judy, one man's pragmatism is another man's waffling. And I never heard anybody say Ronald Reagan was a waffler. He navigated the shoals between pragmatism and ideology so deftly, I can't imagine any more skilled politician in that regard.

WOODRUFF: I'm sorry, I just missed you. Somebody else was talking in my ear. Miles, could you repeat the question?

O'BRIEN: Oh, well, what we are basically saying is -- you were saying that ultimately he raised taxes, and some would view that as flip-flop or a waffle, and yet no one would ever accuse Ronald Reagan of a waffle. And yet no one would ever accuse Ronald Reagan of waffling. So how was he able to kind of navigate those shoals of pragmatism versus ideology and be viewed as somebody who sticks to his guns and yet be a horse trader?

WOODRUFF: You know, I think that is the interesting question that gets right to the heart of who Ronald Reagan was, as the incredibly important political figure, public figure that he was in American life. Absolutely, he had his principles. He believed in a smaller federal government. He wanted those tax cuts. He believed in doing anything he could to bring an end to communism. He had those goals and he wasn't relenting on that.

But at the same time, and somebody said this to me yesterday, I was talking to him -- it was Jim Baker, who was his chief of staff during the first four years of his presidency. He said Ronald Reagan said to me if I can get 80 percent of what I want on the way to my goal, I'll take it. I realize that sometimes part of a loaf is better than no loaf at all.

And I think that was his view. You do have to give along the way, but in the back of his mind that goal was still there. I think it was more like two steps forward and maybe half a step back but then let's keep moving toward the goal.

O'BRIEN: Judy Woodruff, thank you very much. Appreciate your insights as we've been watching the motorcade make its way to where you are, Simi Valley, the Reagan Presidential Library, where there will be a period of time where the public can pay its respects to the former president who, the more you talk about him, the more remarkable a man he was.

PHILLIPS: Our David Mattingly is in there in Simi Valley, California where the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library is. If you're just tuning in, about a half an hour or so, the body of the former president, Ronald Reagan, was taken from the mortuary in Santa Monica, California, via this motorcade. And right behind him, his wife, Nancy Reagan, also his three kids, Ron Reagan Jr., Michael Reagan, also Patti Davis. The family has been kept very close throughout the day. They went and visited the mortuary. They're now in the motorcade headed to Simi Valley, California.

Of course in Washington, meanwhile, plans right now are under way for the first state funeral in the nation's capital in more than 30 years. We're going to take you now to Simi Valley, California, where our David Mattingly is standing by. We want to make sure we have the connection with you, David. Can you hear me OK?

MATTINGLY: ... talk, it brings back memories of my own. While she had a front row seat covering Ronald Regan from the White House, I was actually covering him with local television stations in Alabama, at the time a very conservative voting place.

But Ronald Reagan was probably, on the power of his personality, responsible for killing the traditional image of the southern Democrat there. By the time he left office, Alabama had become a two-party state with so many conservative Democrats finally calling themselves Republicans.

And he was able to do it by multiple visits to that state. And every time that he showed up, he had such a genuine quality about him. He made people believe that he was just so happy to be here, that he connected with hundreds of people at a time every time he walked into a room. And his speeches were also very carefully crafted to speak to the people there and their concerns.

At the time, gas prices were coming down under $1 a gallon and he made the comment, don't you just love how the gallon sign is now turning faster at the pump than the dollar sign? Now by saying it like that, people could relate to it instantly, a big cheer went up in the auditorium and people were very happy that their president was at least paying attention to some of the problems that they were having in their everyday lives.

And there was one priceless moment at one time, Kyra, the president spoke in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And on his way back to catch Air Force One at the airport, he stopped at a McDonald's. It was completely unplanned, caught the Secret Service by surprise, caught everyone in that McDonald's by surprise.

The president walked in, walked up to the counter and he stood and looked a little confused when he looked at the menu. And he turned to the person next to him and said, "What's good here?" And this guy who was there for lunch turned to him, said, "Well, I would recommend the Big Mac."

So that's what the president ordered. He got the Big Mac and fries, got back in the car and went on. But no one was walking about his speech after that that day. It was the fact that the president stopped at McDonald's.

Again, a way that he had of connecting with everyday people there. And again it paid off in a big way for the Republican Party. Again, by the time he left office, Alabama was a two-party state, again, completely because of the power of the personality of Ronald Reagan.

PHILLIPS: David, you bring up a really good point about just how he connected with people, how personal he was. I remember having the chance to go back to Illinois from his birthplace up until college and meeting some of his friends that he grew up with. I mean from childhood.

And to this day, these friends of his in their early 90s, late 80s, have these handwritten notes. And it has the presidential seal. I remember the notes. It had the presidential seal, his name. And he just jotted on these notes with a pencil or a pen.

I remember one of his childhood friends, Tubby. "Hey, Tubby. How you doing? Life here in the White House is really grand."

I mean they were these very down-to-earth, genuine, friend-to- friend type notes. He really did maintain that.

I learned as I went back to these small towns in Illinois, and heard from friends of his -- and I'm curious, in the presidential library there in Simi Valley, unfortunately I've not had a chance to go there and visit inside. Have you toured it extensively? There are a lot of those handwritten notes, handwritten letters? He was so well-known for that.

MATTINGLY: Well I can tell you what they do have here. There is -- so much of the library work is dedicated to him as president. But there's so much of the library also dedicated to his personal life. In there you will find the booth in which he -- the diner booth in which he proposed to Nancy Reagan.

There also are other things there. An exhibit that calls to attention his short career as a sports broadcaster.

So again, a rich and very diverse career and life for Ronald Reagan. And all of it on display here.

PHILLIPS: Our David Mattingly there in Simi Valley, California.

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