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Should Saddam Be Considered POW?; Greenspan Goes to Capitol Hill for Confirmation
Aired June 15, 2004 - 12:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush hosts the president of Afghanistan, but America's other war front, Iraq, grab spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to make sure that as -- when sovereignty is transferred, Saddam Hussein is -- stays in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Devil in the details, what will happen to Saddam Hussein when Iraq regains sovereignty?
PHILLIPS: Big increase in consumer prices fueling inflation fears and a possible increase in interest rates. What it could mean for your bottom line this hour.
O'BRIEN: And fighting top killers in America. New action plan for you on your next doctor's appointment.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. It is Tuesday, June 15. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
O'BRIEN: Up first this hour, Karzai in Congress and at the White House. And while President Bush didn't exactly promise his Afghan counterpart a Rose Garden, that was the backdrop for a public vow of continued U.S. support in fighting terror and rebuilding Afghanistan. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the latest for us.
Hello, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. It is very clear that both leaders are truly invested in the success of Afghanistan, certainly, at least the perceptions of success in Afghanistan, that it is stable and a democratic society after the fall of the Taliban. This as you know, comes just two weeks away from the transfer of power to the Iraqi people. President Bush certainly would like to use Afghanistan as a model for what could possibly happen in Iraq. As you know, a lot of people forget that this is what they call the first front in the war on terror. President Bush saying it is a victory on the war on terror that is worthy of international support.
Now President Bush also addressed what many people are asking, and that is the fate of Saddam Hussein. Currently, the U.S.-led coalition, as well as Iraqi officials, are debating over just what is the timetable for turning him over to the Iraqi people, when they are a sovereign nation, when that transfer occurs, there are some reservation, some discussions that are taking place. President Bush saying very bluntly that he wants to make sure that Saddam Hussein stays in jail, that there are no glitches in this process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're working with the Iraqi government on a couple of issues. One is the appropriate time for the transfer of Saddam Hussein. And secondly, we're working to make sure there's appropriate security. I mean, one thing, obviously, is that we don't want -- I know the Iraqi interim government doesn't want us there to be lax security and for Saddam Hussein to somehow not stand trial for the horrendous murder and torture he inflicted on the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So Miles, the big issue here of course is security, whether or not there are structures in place within the Iraqi society, essentially, that can make sure Saddam Hussein is secure, that he's not assassinated while he is held, and that they have the kind of legal system in place to actually try him. So those are discussions that will take place over the next couple of weeks.
We should also let you know as well, all eyes on Afghanistan, the election that's going to occur in September, when Karzai faces national elections, that both leaders will make sure that it is a stable and secure country, to allow that to happen. Both of them looking at that country as a possible model when they turn and argue that the international community should support Iraq -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Suzanne, back to Iraq for a minute. You said a couple of weeks. You really mean a couple of weeks. June 30, of course, being the deadline. The International Committee for the Red Cross out with a recommendation today that essentially the U.S. should not hold Saddam Hussein past that June 30 deadline, inasmuch as Iraq would have sovereignty. Is the administration paying much attention to that?
MALVEAUX: Well, they're paying attention to all aspects of this because it is a very murky situation. As you can imagine, Miles, what the International Red Cross is saying, of course, if he is a prisoner of war, but no longer a prisoner of war when the war is over, what do you do with him then? The U.S. administration arguing that essentially a war on terror continues, but they have no desire however to essentially to hold on to Saddam Hussein, they want to turn him over to the Iraqis as quickly as the Iraqis would like him.
But however, what they are saying is that you have to have those type of political entities in place that actually allows Saddam Hussein to be secured, to be tried. They certainly don't want him to slip out of their hands in some sort of legal maneuvering. That is what they're working out with the Iraqis right now. O'BRIEN: Suzanne, I know we talked about this when Saddam Hussein was first captured. But refresh my memory. What was the thinking at that time about the possibility of having Saddam Hussein turned over to the world court and go through the same process which Slobodan Milosevic went through, for example?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly, the thinking here is that he would actually be tried in a war crimes tribunal, this is something that the Iraqis would be in charge of. That he would not be turned over to the international community. What this is is essentially the United States trying to prove here that they wash their hands of this process, that this is something that the Iraqi people are now going to have to deal with, that the Iraqis truly have sovereignty, and part of that deal, in having sovereignty, is to have those entities in place, those legal institutions, to take care of Saddam Hussein themselves. However, the U.S. coalition, very much involved in what that means.
O'BRIEN: It's a risky path ahead in so many ways. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
Back to Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai, the president of that nation, notes only 6 percent of Afghans have electricity. Poppy fields still fund global terror and renegade militias threaten the rule of law. And somewhere, somehow, Osama bin Laden casts a long and menacing shadow still. CNN's Ryan Chilcote checks in from Kabul with Afghanistan's problems and its prospects as well.
Hello, Ryan.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well, while the U.S. president and president of Afghanistan may have been painting a rosy picture in general of the situation here in Afghanistan, the situation on the ground is anything but rosy. Just about 25 minutes ago, we heard a loud explosion here in capital -- in the capital of Afghanistan, in Kabul. We have been informed by the International Security Assistance Force, those are the international peacekeepers in Afghanistan, that they came under rocket fire. At least one rocket impacting just outside of their headquarters.
No confirmed casualties at this point. It's a little bit too early to make that kind of assessment. This coming just less than one week after 11 Chinese workers were killed in the north of the country, in their sleep, in their compound there; and just a week before that, five aide workers from the group Doctors Without Borders ambushed and killed in the northwest of the country. That, on top of the ongoing insurgency in this country, Miles, in the east and the southeast of the country, about 20,000 U.S. servicemen and servicewomen are getting into almost daily gunfights with insurgents who are primarily from the Taliban and al Qaeda. Those insurgents would like to see these elections, quite frankly, go away.
Now President Karzai yesterday in his meeting with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, said that Afghanistan expects more violence before the election. And he asked the international community -- he asked NATO specifically to provide more peacekeepers. But as we speak to you right now, Miles, combat helicopters in the air, in the skies above Kabul -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ryan, just a quick thought here. Is there any doubt in your mind and most observers' minds, that if U.S. forces were to leave, the Taliban would take power almost immediately?
CHILCOTE: Well, both -- the U.S. military commanders and the government of Afghanistan believe that if the U.S. military was to pull out, that the Taliban and the "enemies," as they put it, of the federal government here in Afghanistan would move in very quickly. As it is, the U.S. military says that their presence here, while they may not be accomplishing tangible goals in terms of defeating the Taliban and al Qaeda on a day-to-day basis, what they're doing by being here is preventing those forces from building up, they're preventing the Taliban from remassing, really, and being able to operate in a large group. And they're preventing the terrorist from al Qaeda, from regrouping, and being able to stage attacks both in Afghanistan and out of Afghanistan, from here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Ryan Chilcote in Kabul, thanks much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Back to Baghdad now and the status of Saddam Hussein. The International Red Cross says the former Iraqi dictator and all POWs in coalition custody have to be charged, released, or transferred when or before the occupation ends June 30. But the coalition says Saddam can't be transferred until there's a sovereign authority to transfer him to. And as you've heard, President Bush says, appropriate security, not the calendar, is key. With more on this and another day of sabotage and bloodshed, CNN's Christiane Amanpour in the Iraqi capital -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMAPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there has been a great deal of confusion and controversy about the status of Saddam Hussein come June 30. The ICRC, which monitors the status of prisoners of war and the compliance with the Geneva Convention, says that in fact the U.S. does have some grace period after the handover if, indeed, as the U.S. has determined that hostilities continue, Saddam Hussein can be kept as a POW.
But if that is the case, then all the appropriate protections under the Geneva Conventions have to be fully accorded to him. The U.S. could also certainly put him on trial or bring him to trial and charge him with any crimes that he may have committed, either in custody or before. The U.S. could also hand him over to the interim Iraqi government. But that does not seem likely anytime soon, even though the new interim Iraqi prime minister has made it very clear that that's what Iraq wants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE: Definitely will be trying our best to get custody of Saddam and the other criminals. We have, so far, some definite promises from the coalition, that this will be the case. The negotiations are under way and are progressing well.
(END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR: Well, the coalition authorities here say that in fact there aren't negotiations on this issue. There are some discussions about it. And they just say noncommittally that they do hope to be able to hand Saddam over some time after June 30, after the transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis. The ICRC says that eventually the U.S. is going to have to hand him over, unless -- because it might become politically unpalatable to keep holding Saddam Hussein once sovereignty and occupation -- or once the occupation has officially ended.
But we're told by human rights officials that even if Saddam was handed over, they -- the Iraqis are not yet ready to put him on trial, because none of the trial process has been completed, right down from gathering forensic evidence to interviewing any potential witnesses against Saddam Hussein.
Now at the same time, as the handover draws near, two weeks from now, there has been more violence. This has been, already, a very bloody week. And it's only in its second day. Today there was an attack on an international convoy, yet another one, near Baghdad Airport. This is what the occupation briefers told us today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. AARMY: There was an attack against a three-vehicle convoy west of Baghdad, over near the airport, where two of the vehicles, I believe, had some persons in it that were killed and there was a third vehicle which was able to continue driving towards the coalition base at -- nearby it. I know that the persons in that vehicle were all safe. The vehicle was shot up a bit. We don't have the full report yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: There was also violence in the south. Some 16 kilometers away from the main southern town city of Basra, near the port there. There was an insurgent attack, we're told by the oil ministry, on a main Iraqi oil pipeline, severely disrupting the flow of Iraqi oil and at the same time affecting the imports that Iraq could get from its flow of oil to the outside. According to the Iraqi oil ministry, it could take seven to 10 days to fix it. It's not the first attack on the oil infrastructure and it's causing severe disruptions on electricity and all sorts of utilities as well in this country -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much. And as Christiane mentioned, one of the headlines there out of Iraq was the statement from the International Committee of the Red Cross about Saddam Hussein and the fact that he should either be freed or charged before Iraq power handover. We have on the line now ICRC spokeswoman Nada Doumani.
Nada, I guess I want to ask you, first of all, as you can imagine, for a number of Americans hearing just the statement that Saddam must be freed before hearing this part -- charged before Iraq power handover, tends to make a number of people very nervous. Is the ICRC advocating that Saddam Hussein should be freed?
NADA DOUMANI, ICRC SPOKESPERSON: No. Definitely we are not attempting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the case of Saddam Hussein. What we say is exactly what the international (UNINTELLIGIBLE) says, and I believe everybody will agree on that. It's that the status of a prisoner of war has been granted to Saddam Hussein by the U.S. authority. And then at some point as a prisoner of war he is a prisoner of war like any prisoner of war. Since he has been granted this status, the law applies to him.
At some point, he has to be charged and to be tried. Now whether he's tried by the Americans, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as a POW, or whether he is handed over to Iraqis to be tried, that's another issues. The thing is that any POW, any civilian internee has to be charged, it seems to me obvious. Otherwise, if there are no charges against the person, then you cannot keep the person indefinitely in detention. But nobody ever said that there is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that this must be done before the thirtieth of June.
PHILLIPS: Now Nada, as a POW, Saddam Hussein is a POW, the U.S. does not have to hand him over until the war is officially declared over. Now let's talk about the war being over, versus sovereignty and the handover, versus the cessation of active hostilities. The handover, indeed, is supposed to happen June 30. But it doesn't necessarily mean that hostilities will end. So as Christiane Amanpour was mentioning, is the ICRC comfortable with a bit of a grace period until charges are filed, and until hostilities have calmed down, and there is security in this country?
DOUMANI: You know, we cannot speculate on what will happen effectively on the ground after (UNINTELLIGIBLE). That's why I'm saying, we cannot speak today for that. I'm not speculating on what will happen, whether sovereignty, whether occupation will end effectively, whether hostilities will end or not. In any case, we might very well be in a state of internal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) nobody knows. We cannot speculate. And, therefore, we cannot decide for the status of the detainees at some precise date. We will have to discuss it at the time when it happens.
PHILLIPS: We will definitely be discussing it, even before that. Nada Doumani, with the International Committee of the Red Cross, thank you very much.
Straight ahead, terror plot accusations, the family of a Somali man indicted for allegedly planning to blow up an Ohio mall speaks out. That story ahead.
And politics and the economy, Fed Chair Alan Greenspan up for another term but is he too chummy with the Washington establishment?
Detectives take the stand in the Scott Peterson murder trial. We'll have a live report from the courthouse just ahead on LIVE FROM...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: The mother of a Somali man accused of planning to blow up an Ohio shopping mall is painting a very different portrait of her son than what we've heard from authorities. Nuradin Abdi's mother says her son is innocent, loves America, and hates terrorists even more than President Bush does. That sharply contrasts with charges reveal by federal authorities yesterday that Abdi provided material support to al Qaeda and traveled overseas to participate in jihad training.
New information suggests al Qaeda may have intended to carry out the 9/11 attacks months earlier. Quoting sources close to the 9/11 Commission, "The Washington Post" reporting the attacks were supposed to be carried out in May or June of that year but they were postponed because the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta, was not ready. Tomorrow, 9/11 commissioners are to hold their last public hearing. At issue, whether military fighter jets could have been used to shoot down hijacked airliners.
Officials overseeing the 9/11 fund are working against a midnight deadline to decide how the money will be doled out to those injured or relatives of people killed in the attacks. Workers still have hundreds of claims to finalize today. They've already authorized close to $6 billion in payments. Compensation ranges from $500 to more than $8.5 million.
PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now, case closed. Israel's attorney general drops the bribery case against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon citing lack of evidence. Sharon has long denied any wrongdoing in an alleged property deal while foreign minister. Any charges could have been devastating to Sharon's political future.
Gaza attack thwarted. A car bomb believed intended for Israeli forces blows up near a military outpost in Gaza. Palestinian sources confirm a Palestinian was killed as he drove the car toward those soldiers.
Soccer fans turned violent in Portugal. Some unruly English fans clashed with police after the Euro 2004 Tournament last night. Several fans were injured. At least 10 people were arrested.
We know what President Bush has to say about Saddam Hussein's future today, but what about leaders in Iraq? Their take on what should happen to the former dictator is just ahead on LIVE FROM...
Preventing cancer, diabetes and heart disease, life-saving questions to ask your doctor.
Faith in America. Why more of us are taking a do-it-yourself approach to spirituality.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A Senate Committee putting Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan in the hot seat today as he seeks the green light for a fifth term in office. But is Alan Greenspan perhaps too cozy with the political powers that be to remain the head of the Federal Reserve? Some of the questions that are being asked. Let's turn now to Kathleen Hays on Capitol Hill.
Kathleen, good to see you. First of all, let's set the record straight. Alan Greenspan is going to get a green light here for another term, right?
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, because he does have the confidence of Wall Street, Miles. The economy is doing better. He's been there since 1987. He's been through a stock market crash, a stock market bubble, two recessions, four presidents. He'll definitely get the confirmation when they finally vote. There are just some questions today, I think, about where he's guiding policy and where he thinks the Bush policy should be going as well.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk, first of all, he gets an awful lot of credit about nurturing the economy along over the years. And I've read some stuff that has said that really if you look to his predecessor, Paul Volcker, that's the person who really set in motion the end of inflation as we knew it then.
HAYS: Hard to believe that in 1980 that the inflation rate got up to about 13.5 percent. Short-term interest rates were pushed to about 20 percent. It makes our bumps in the economy look mild by comparison. I think a lot of people say though, Miles, that Greenspan, being this very kind of -- able to manipulate the political waters, able to navigate with both sides of the aisle in Washington, made him the perfect Fed chairman to continue the legacy of Paul Volcker because once inflation gets low, it's much tougher to get the political support for the kind of tight money, high interest rates, maybe even a recession that you get in order to keep inflation low. I think many people give Alan Greenspan credit for being able to do that. But everybody says he doesn't walk on water, that's for sure.
O'BRIEN: All right. He is an insider's insider and has received criticism over the years for being a little too cozy with both the exclusive and legislative branches, that the perception is that the Fed chairman really should hang back from all of that. Is that a fair rap?
HAYS: I think there are a lot of people who would agree with that. Again, let's look at Paul Volcker. He was meticulous about not wanting to get into things like tax cuts, where Mr. Greenspan has eagerly waded in it seems. Now granted, he has been pushed to talk about it. But remember, two or three years ago when President Bush wanted to cut taxes yet again, and Mr. Greenspan said, hey, don't worry, we've got a big budget surplus. In fact, it's so big if we don't manage it and bring it down slowly, it could cause problems for financial markets.
Many people said at the time, say even more now, that he should have known that budget forecasts are very unreliable. That we could get into a situation like we have now with a big budget deficit, caused in large by the recession, but added to by the tax cuts. Many people feel he should have stayed out of that and not even commented anything at all, Miles. And of course today, Chuck Schumer, who is the Democratic senator from New York, said, I give you an A-plus as chairman, no doubt. But I think you've talked too much about spending cuts as the way to deal with the deficit. You should talk more about the tax part of the equation.
O'BRIEN: All right. You know what, when Alan Greenspan talks, of course, Wall Street moves. Let's bring in Rhonda Schaffler into this discussion.
Rhonda, good to see you as well.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles.
Alan Greenspan today was warning we have got to be ready for the possibility, as awful as it sounds, of another major attack on the U.S., a terrorist attack. Did that kind of thing move the markets or is the market more interested today in the inflation news that we've been hearing?
SCHAFFLER: Today, it's pretty much about inflation, as well as the idea that any move by the Fed would be measured. In other words, not too dramatic, nothing to really upset Wall Street. And we're seeing a relief from some of those inflation fears that really dogged the market yesterday. One reason for that is we did get a very important inflation reading everyone was sitting around waiting for yesterday. It's the consumer price index. It was up 0.6 percent in May. That's actually three times faster than the pace in April. It's the fastest pace in more than three years.
And of course, investors paying close attention to this Because if inflation is hot, it determines how much the Fed is going to raise rates. It sounds significant. However, when you break through the numbers a bit and when you take out increases in the cost for energy and food, prices were only up by 0.2 percent. Wall street Is a bit relieved by that number. And economists at this point, a bit split on the interpretation of these numbers. Now, the CPI report will be one of those very important things the Fed considers at that meeting coming up at the end of the month.
O'BRIEN: All right. There was the news flash there, economists split. Hey, Kathleen, one thought before you get away here, with all this inflationary talk, did Greenspan -- did he telegraph what he is going to do about interest rates? We've seen them go down to practically a goose egg. What do we see -- what's lying in store now?
HAYS: Well, you know, this isn't the first occasion in the last month where the Fed has made it clear, Alan Greenspan has made it clear, they're getting ready to hike rates. And the June 29-30 meeting, we'll probably get the first little baby step higher. I think it's pretty significant, Miles, that he repeated that the Fed still thinks that inflationary pressure are not likely to be a serious concern. Some more strength in wages. He expects jobs to hold up.
But he still, as Rhonda pointed out, expects to move at a measured pace. Unless they're wrong about the economy and they're wrong about inflation.
So it all bears watching. But I think the message is we don't want to have to be aggressive. We want to move measured. We think we're doing the right thing. That should be good news for investors and for consumers who have to worry about their mortgage rates as well -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ah, yes, your mortgage rate, something to worry about, maybe time to lock in. Kathleen Hays, thank you very much.
(MARKET UPDATE)
O'BRIEN: Who wants to be a millionaire? Who doesn't, right? Apparently, more Americans are reaching the million-dollar mark. Next hour on LIVE FROM..., three things you can do to get started on becoming a millionaire. First one, get a million dollars. No. We'll tell you the real stuff. Stay with us.
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Aired June 15, 2004 - 12:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush hosts the president of Afghanistan, but America's other war front, Iraq, grab spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to make sure that as -- when sovereignty is transferred, Saddam Hussein is -- stays in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Devil in the details, what will happen to Saddam Hussein when Iraq regains sovereignty?
PHILLIPS: Big increase in consumer prices fueling inflation fears and a possible increase in interest rates. What it could mean for your bottom line this hour.
O'BRIEN: And fighting top killers in America. New action plan for you on your next doctor's appointment.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. It is Tuesday, June 15. CNN's LIVE FROM... starts right now.
O'BRIEN: Up first this hour, Karzai in Congress and at the White House. And while President Bush didn't exactly promise his Afghan counterpart a Rose Garden, that was the backdrop for a public vow of continued U.S. support in fighting terror and rebuilding Afghanistan. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the latest for us.
Hello, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. It is very clear that both leaders are truly invested in the success of Afghanistan, certainly, at least the perceptions of success in Afghanistan, that it is stable and a democratic society after the fall of the Taliban. This as you know, comes just two weeks away from the transfer of power to the Iraqi people. President Bush certainly would like to use Afghanistan as a model for what could possibly happen in Iraq. As you know, a lot of people forget that this is what they call the first front in the war on terror. President Bush saying it is a victory on the war on terror that is worthy of international support.
Now President Bush also addressed what many people are asking, and that is the fate of Saddam Hussein. Currently, the U.S.-led coalition, as well as Iraqi officials, are debating over just what is the timetable for turning him over to the Iraqi people, when they are a sovereign nation, when that transfer occurs, there are some reservation, some discussions that are taking place. President Bush saying very bluntly that he wants to make sure that Saddam Hussein stays in jail, that there are no glitches in this process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're working with the Iraqi government on a couple of issues. One is the appropriate time for the transfer of Saddam Hussein. And secondly, we're working to make sure there's appropriate security. I mean, one thing, obviously, is that we don't want -- I know the Iraqi interim government doesn't want us there to be lax security and for Saddam Hussein to somehow not stand trial for the horrendous murder and torture he inflicted on the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So Miles, the big issue here of course is security, whether or not there are structures in place within the Iraqi society, essentially, that can make sure Saddam Hussein is secure, that he's not assassinated while he is held, and that they have the kind of legal system in place to actually try him. So those are discussions that will take place over the next couple of weeks.
We should also let you know as well, all eyes on Afghanistan, the election that's going to occur in September, when Karzai faces national elections, that both leaders will make sure that it is a stable and secure country, to allow that to happen. Both of them looking at that country as a possible model when they turn and argue that the international community should support Iraq -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Suzanne, back to Iraq for a minute. You said a couple of weeks. You really mean a couple of weeks. June 30, of course, being the deadline. The International Committee for the Red Cross out with a recommendation today that essentially the U.S. should not hold Saddam Hussein past that June 30 deadline, inasmuch as Iraq would have sovereignty. Is the administration paying much attention to that?
MALVEAUX: Well, they're paying attention to all aspects of this because it is a very murky situation. As you can imagine, Miles, what the International Red Cross is saying, of course, if he is a prisoner of war, but no longer a prisoner of war when the war is over, what do you do with him then? The U.S. administration arguing that essentially a war on terror continues, but they have no desire however to essentially to hold on to Saddam Hussein, they want to turn him over to the Iraqis as quickly as the Iraqis would like him.
But however, what they are saying is that you have to have those type of political entities in place that actually allows Saddam Hussein to be secured, to be tried. They certainly don't want him to slip out of their hands in some sort of legal maneuvering. That is what they're working out with the Iraqis right now. O'BRIEN: Suzanne, I know we talked about this when Saddam Hussein was first captured. But refresh my memory. What was the thinking at that time about the possibility of having Saddam Hussein turned over to the world court and go through the same process which Slobodan Milosevic went through, for example?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly, the thinking here is that he would actually be tried in a war crimes tribunal, this is something that the Iraqis would be in charge of. That he would not be turned over to the international community. What this is is essentially the United States trying to prove here that they wash their hands of this process, that this is something that the Iraqi people are now going to have to deal with, that the Iraqis truly have sovereignty, and part of that deal, in having sovereignty, is to have those entities in place, those legal institutions, to take care of Saddam Hussein themselves. However, the U.S. coalition, very much involved in what that means.
O'BRIEN: It's a risky path ahead in so many ways. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
Back to Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai, the president of that nation, notes only 6 percent of Afghans have electricity. Poppy fields still fund global terror and renegade militias threaten the rule of law. And somewhere, somehow, Osama bin Laden casts a long and menacing shadow still. CNN's Ryan Chilcote checks in from Kabul with Afghanistan's problems and its prospects as well.
Hello, Ryan.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well, while the U.S. president and president of Afghanistan may have been painting a rosy picture in general of the situation here in Afghanistan, the situation on the ground is anything but rosy. Just about 25 minutes ago, we heard a loud explosion here in capital -- in the capital of Afghanistan, in Kabul. We have been informed by the International Security Assistance Force, those are the international peacekeepers in Afghanistan, that they came under rocket fire. At least one rocket impacting just outside of their headquarters.
No confirmed casualties at this point. It's a little bit too early to make that kind of assessment. This coming just less than one week after 11 Chinese workers were killed in the north of the country, in their sleep, in their compound there; and just a week before that, five aide workers from the group Doctors Without Borders ambushed and killed in the northwest of the country. That, on top of the ongoing insurgency in this country, Miles, in the east and the southeast of the country, about 20,000 U.S. servicemen and servicewomen are getting into almost daily gunfights with insurgents who are primarily from the Taliban and al Qaeda. Those insurgents would like to see these elections, quite frankly, go away.
Now President Karzai yesterday in his meeting with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, said that Afghanistan expects more violence before the election. And he asked the international community -- he asked NATO specifically to provide more peacekeepers. But as we speak to you right now, Miles, combat helicopters in the air, in the skies above Kabul -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ryan, just a quick thought here. Is there any doubt in your mind and most observers' minds, that if U.S. forces were to leave, the Taliban would take power almost immediately?
CHILCOTE: Well, both -- the U.S. military commanders and the government of Afghanistan believe that if the U.S. military was to pull out, that the Taliban and the "enemies," as they put it, of the federal government here in Afghanistan would move in very quickly. As it is, the U.S. military says that their presence here, while they may not be accomplishing tangible goals in terms of defeating the Taliban and al Qaeda on a day-to-day basis, what they're doing by being here is preventing those forces from building up, they're preventing the Taliban from remassing, really, and being able to operate in a large group. And they're preventing the terrorist from al Qaeda, from regrouping, and being able to stage attacks both in Afghanistan and out of Afghanistan, from here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Ryan Chilcote in Kabul, thanks much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Back to Baghdad now and the status of Saddam Hussein. The International Red Cross says the former Iraqi dictator and all POWs in coalition custody have to be charged, released, or transferred when or before the occupation ends June 30. But the coalition says Saddam can't be transferred until there's a sovereign authority to transfer him to. And as you've heard, President Bush says, appropriate security, not the calendar, is key. With more on this and another day of sabotage and bloodshed, CNN's Christiane Amanpour in the Iraqi capital -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMAPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there has been a great deal of confusion and controversy about the status of Saddam Hussein come June 30. The ICRC, which monitors the status of prisoners of war and the compliance with the Geneva Convention, says that in fact the U.S. does have some grace period after the handover if, indeed, as the U.S. has determined that hostilities continue, Saddam Hussein can be kept as a POW.
But if that is the case, then all the appropriate protections under the Geneva Conventions have to be fully accorded to him. The U.S. could also certainly put him on trial or bring him to trial and charge him with any crimes that he may have committed, either in custody or before. The U.S. could also hand him over to the interim Iraqi government. But that does not seem likely anytime soon, even though the new interim Iraqi prime minister has made it very clear that that's what Iraq wants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE: Definitely will be trying our best to get custody of Saddam and the other criminals. We have, so far, some definite promises from the coalition, that this will be the case. The negotiations are under way and are progressing well.
(END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR: Well, the coalition authorities here say that in fact there aren't negotiations on this issue. There are some discussions about it. And they just say noncommittally that they do hope to be able to hand Saddam over some time after June 30, after the transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis. The ICRC says that eventually the U.S. is going to have to hand him over, unless -- because it might become politically unpalatable to keep holding Saddam Hussein once sovereignty and occupation -- or once the occupation has officially ended.
But we're told by human rights officials that even if Saddam was handed over, they -- the Iraqis are not yet ready to put him on trial, because none of the trial process has been completed, right down from gathering forensic evidence to interviewing any potential witnesses against Saddam Hussein.
Now at the same time, as the handover draws near, two weeks from now, there has been more violence. This has been, already, a very bloody week. And it's only in its second day. Today there was an attack on an international convoy, yet another one, near Baghdad Airport. This is what the occupation briefers told us today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. AARMY: There was an attack against a three-vehicle convoy west of Baghdad, over near the airport, where two of the vehicles, I believe, had some persons in it that were killed and there was a third vehicle which was able to continue driving towards the coalition base at -- nearby it. I know that the persons in that vehicle were all safe. The vehicle was shot up a bit. We don't have the full report yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: There was also violence in the south. Some 16 kilometers away from the main southern town city of Basra, near the port there. There was an insurgent attack, we're told by the oil ministry, on a main Iraqi oil pipeline, severely disrupting the flow of Iraqi oil and at the same time affecting the imports that Iraq could get from its flow of oil to the outside. According to the Iraqi oil ministry, it could take seven to 10 days to fix it. It's not the first attack on the oil infrastructure and it's causing severe disruptions on electricity and all sorts of utilities as well in this country -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much. And as Christiane mentioned, one of the headlines there out of Iraq was the statement from the International Committee of the Red Cross about Saddam Hussein and the fact that he should either be freed or charged before Iraq power handover. We have on the line now ICRC spokeswoman Nada Doumani.
Nada, I guess I want to ask you, first of all, as you can imagine, for a number of Americans hearing just the statement that Saddam must be freed before hearing this part -- charged before Iraq power handover, tends to make a number of people very nervous. Is the ICRC advocating that Saddam Hussein should be freed?
NADA DOUMANI, ICRC SPOKESPERSON: No. Definitely we are not attempting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the case of Saddam Hussein. What we say is exactly what the international (UNINTELLIGIBLE) says, and I believe everybody will agree on that. It's that the status of a prisoner of war has been granted to Saddam Hussein by the U.S. authority. And then at some point as a prisoner of war he is a prisoner of war like any prisoner of war. Since he has been granted this status, the law applies to him.
At some point, he has to be charged and to be tried. Now whether he's tried by the Americans, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as a POW, or whether he is handed over to Iraqis to be tried, that's another issues. The thing is that any POW, any civilian internee has to be charged, it seems to me obvious. Otherwise, if there are no charges against the person, then you cannot keep the person indefinitely in detention. But nobody ever said that there is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that this must be done before the thirtieth of June.
PHILLIPS: Now Nada, as a POW, Saddam Hussein is a POW, the U.S. does not have to hand him over until the war is officially declared over. Now let's talk about the war being over, versus sovereignty and the handover, versus the cessation of active hostilities. The handover, indeed, is supposed to happen June 30. But it doesn't necessarily mean that hostilities will end. So as Christiane Amanpour was mentioning, is the ICRC comfortable with a bit of a grace period until charges are filed, and until hostilities have calmed down, and there is security in this country?
DOUMANI: You know, we cannot speculate on what will happen effectively on the ground after (UNINTELLIGIBLE). That's why I'm saying, we cannot speak today for that. I'm not speculating on what will happen, whether sovereignty, whether occupation will end effectively, whether hostilities will end or not. In any case, we might very well be in a state of internal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) nobody knows. We cannot speculate. And, therefore, we cannot decide for the status of the detainees at some precise date. We will have to discuss it at the time when it happens.
PHILLIPS: We will definitely be discussing it, even before that. Nada Doumani, with the International Committee of the Red Cross, thank you very much.
Straight ahead, terror plot accusations, the family of a Somali man indicted for allegedly planning to blow up an Ohio mall speaks out. That story ahead.
And politics and the economy, Fed Chair Alan Greenspan up for another term but is he too chummy with the Washington establishment?
Detectives take the stand in the Scott Peterson murder trial. We'll have a live report from the courthouse just ahead on LIVE FROM...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: The mother of a Somali man accused of planning to blow up an Ohio shopping mall is painting a very different portrait of her son than what we've heard from authorities. Nuradin Abdi's mother says her son is innocent, loves America, and hates terrorists even more than President Bush does. That sharply contrasts with charges reveal by federal authorities yesterday that Abdi provided material support to al Qaeda and traveled overseas to participate in jihad training.
New information suggests al Qaeda may have intended to carry out the 9/11 attacks months earlier. Quoting sources close to the 9/11 Commission, "The Washington Post" reporting the attacks were supposed to be carried out in May or June of that year but they were postponed because the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta, was not ready. Tomorrow, 9/11 commissioners are to hold their last public hearing. At issue, whether military fighter jets could have been used to shoot down hijacked airliners.
Officials overseeing the 9/11 fund are working against a midnight deadline to decide how the money will be doled out to those injured or relatives of people killed in the attacks. Workers still have hundreds of claims to finalize today. They've already authorized close to $6 billion in payments. Compensation ranges from $500 to more than $8.5 million.
PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now, case closed. Israel's attorney general drops the bribery case against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon citing lack of evidence. Sharon has long denied any wrongdoing in an alleged property deal while foreign minister. Any charges could have been devastating to Sharon's political future.
Gaza attack thwarted. A car bomb believed intended for Israeli forces blows up near a military outpost in Gaza. Palestinian sources confirm a Palestinian was killed as he drove the car toward those soldiers.
Soccer fans turned violent in Portugal. Some unruly English fans clashed with police after the Euro 2004 Tournament last night. Several fans were injured. At least 10 people were arrested.
We know what President Bush has to say about Saddam Hussein's future today, but what about leaders in Iraq? Their take on what should happen to the former dictator is just ahead on LIVE FROM...
Preventing cancer, diabetes and heart disease, life-saving questions to ask your doctor.
Faith in America. Why more of us are taking a do-it-yourself approach to spirituality.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A Senate Committee putting Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan in the hot seat today as he seeks the green light for a fifth term in office. But is Alan Greenspan perhaps too cozy with the political powers that be to remain the head of the Federal Reserve? Some of the questions that are being asked. Let's turn now to Kathleen Hays on Capitol Hill.
Kathleen, good to see you. First of all, let's set the record straight. Alan Greenspan is going to get a green light here for another term, right?
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, because he does have the confidence of Wall Street, Miles. The economy is doing better. He's been there since 1987. He's been through a stock market crash, a stock market bubble, two recessions, four presidents. He'll definitely get the confirmation when they finally vote. There are just some questions today, I think, about where he's guiding policy and where he thinks the Bush policy should be going as well.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk, first of all, he gets an awful lot of credit about nurturing the economy along over the years. And I've read some stuff that has said that really if you look to his predecessor, Paul Volcker, that's the person who really set in motion the end of inflation as we knew it then.
HAYS: Hard to believe that in 1980 that the inflation rate got up to about 13.5 percent. Short-term interest rates were pushed to about 20 percent. It makes our bumps in the economy look mild by comparison. I think a lot of people say though, Miles, that Greenspan, being this very kind of -- able to manipulate the political waters, able to navigate with both sides of the aisle in Washington, made him the perfect Fed chairman to continue the legacy of Paul Volcker because once inflation gets low, it's much tougher to get the political support for the kind of tight money, high interest rates, maybe even a recession that you get in order to keep inflation low. I think many people give Alan Greenspan credit for being able to do that. But everybody says he doesn't walk on water, that's for sure.
O'BRIEN: All right. He is an insider's insider and has received criticism over the years for being a little too cozy with both the exclusive and legislative branches, that the perception is that the Fed chairman really should hang back from all of that. Is that a fair rap?
HAYS: I think there are a lot of people who would agree with that. Again, let's look at Paul Volcker. He was meticulous about not wanting to get into things like tax cuts, where Mr. Greenspan has eagerly waded in it seems. Now granted, he has been pushed to talk about it. But remember, two or three years ago when President Bush wanted to cut taxes yet again, and Mr. Greenspan said, hey, don't worry, we've got a big budget surplus. In fact, it's so big if we don't manage it and bring it down slowly, it could cause problems for financial markets.
Many people said at the time, say even more now, that he should have known that budget forecasts are very unreliable. That we could get into a situation like we have now with a big budget deficit, caused in large by the recession, but added to by the tax cuts. Many people feel he should have stayed out of that and not even commented anything at all, Miles. And of course today, Chuck Schumer, who is the Democratic senator from New York, said, I give you an A-plus as chairman, no doubt. But I think you've talked too much about spending cuts as the way to deal with the deficit. You should talk more about the tax part of the equation.
O'BRIEN: All right. You know what, when Alan Greenspan talks, of course, Wall Street moves. Let's bring in Rhonda Schaffler into this discussion.
Rhonda, good to see you as well.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles.
Alan Greenspan today was warning we have got to be ready for the possibility, as awful as it sounds, of another major attack on the U.S., a terrorist attack. Did that kind of thing move the markets or is the market more interested today in the inflation news that we've been hearing?
SCHAFFLER: Today, it's pretty much about inflation, as well as the idea that any move by the Fed would be measured. In other words, not too dramatic, nothing to really upset Wall Street. And we're seeing a relief from some of those inflation fears that really dogged the market yesterday. One reason for that is we did get a very important inflation reading everyone was sitting around waiting for yesterday. It's the consumer price index. It was up 0.6 percent in May. That's actually three times faster than the pace in April. It's the fastest pace in more than three years.
And of course, investors paying close attention to this Because if inflation is hot, it determines how much the Fed is going to raise rates. It sounds significant. However, when you break through the numbers a bit and when you take out increases in the cost for energy and food, prices were only up by 0.2 percent. Wall street Is a bit relieved by that number. And economists at this point, a bit split on the interpretation of these numbers. Now, the CPI report will be one of those very important things the Fed considers at that meeting coming up at the end of the month.
O'BRIEN: All right. There was the news flash there, economists split. Hey, Kathleen, one thought before you get away here, with all this inflationary talk, did Greenspan -- did he telegraph what he is going to do about interest rates? We've seen them go down to practically a goose egg. What do we see -- what's lying in store now?
HAYS: Well, you know, this isn't the first occasion in the last month where the Fed has made it clear, Alan Greenspan has made it clear, they're getting ready to hike rates. And the June 29-30 meeting, we'll probably get the first little baby step higher. I think it's pretty significant, Miles, that he repeated that the Fed still thinks that inflationary pressure are not likely to be a serious concern. Some more strength in wages. He expects jobs to hold up.
But he still, as Rhonda pointed out, expects to move at a measured pace. Unless they're wrong about the economy and they're wrong about inflation.
So it all bears watching. But I think the message is we don't want to have to be aggressive. We want to move measured. We think we're doing the right thing. That should be good news for investors and for consumers who have to worry about their mortgage rates as well -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ah, yes, your mortgage rate, something to worry about, maybe time to lock in. Kathleen Hays, thank you very much.
(MARKET UPDATE)
O'BRIEN: Who wants to be a millionaire? Who doesn't, right? Apparently, more Americans are reaching the million-dollar mark. Next hour on LIVE FROM..., three things you can do to get started on becoming a millionaire. First one, get a million dollars. No. We'll tell you the real stuff. Stay with us.
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