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Prisoner Abuse Scandal: Deposing Higher-Ups; Four Marines Killed in Iraq; Scott Peterson Trial

Aired June 21, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to CNN's LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Miles is on assignment. Here's what's happening at this hour.

Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader has a running mate. Nader has tapped Peter Camejo, a longtime Green Party activist. Camejo is a broker who promotes socially responsible investment. He was the Green Party candidate for California governor last year.

SpaceShipOne is safely on the ground after making history as the first manned private sector craft in space. Pilot Michael Melvill took off from the Mojave Desert in Burt Rutan's rocket plane this morning and climbed above the 62.5-mile boundary of Earth's atmosphere.

The only U.S. resident known to have the human form of mad cow disease is dead. CNN has learned 25-year-old Florida resident Charlene Sing (ph) died from the illness on Sunday. Health officials say the British native contracted the disease in England before moving to the U.S. back in 1992.

PHILLIPS: First this hour, the prisoner abuse scandal and top American military officials in charge of running Iraq. A military judge has cleared the way for some of the highest of higher-ups to be deposed in upcoming courts-martial. We get the story now from Baghdad, from CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the pictures that shocked the world, sullied America's reputation and severely damaged its standing amongst Iraqis. The defense lawyer for Specialist Charles Graner, seen leering and giving the thumbs up, says he wants to question Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The secretary of defense, in waging a war on terrorism correctly, loosened the reigns somewhat on interrogators.

AMANPOUR: Attorneys for Graner and Sergeant Javal Davis will claim their clients were just following orders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how do we know that? Because high ranking individuals in government, in the military, have given statements under oath in reference to what was permissible.

AMANPOUR: Graner's attorney says he strongly believes that General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S.-led forces at the time, knew of the abuse as early as November. Not, as he claims, in January.

(on camera): The court-martial proceedings that have been going on inside this room are partly designed to staunch the flow of bad blood towards the United States. A new poll that was commissioned by the U.S.-led authorities here finds that 54 percent of Iraqis believe that all Americans behave as badly as the accused.

(voice-over): Outside Abu Ghraib, prisoners' relatives are still dissatisfied. "This court is not right," says Ali Jasan (ph), the father of a prisoner, "because the soldiers are being tried by Americans. We want the court to be held by the U.N. and neutral countries."

No trial date has been set yet. Defense lawyers say they won't be ready until October. U.S. military officials say trials could start late August.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: At last word, the military was providing little information concerning the deaths of four Marines in an insurgent stronghold west of Baghdad. But video of dead Marines is airing around the world. CNN's Kathleen Koch is standing by live at the Pentagon to tell us what she's been able to learn from there.

Hi, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.

A very grim discovery made by the military today in the Al Ambar (ph) province of Iraq. Four members of the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Force were patrolling near the city of Ramadi when they did not report into headquarters at the time that they were expected to. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt says that a quick reaction force was then rushed to their location and it discovered the bodies of the four men. As you can see there, very troubling video.

It appears that the Marines were ambushed. But Kimmitt says that no information will be given out on exactly what happened until the families of the men have been notified. A coalition spokesman says it's the kind of attack that fighters loyal to suspected terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi are increasingly mounting as the handover deadline nears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: Now there are nine days left. They're pulling out all the stops. I don't know if they were certainly behind the killing of these four soldiers, but the spirit, the strategy, the sentiment is the same. It is by people who have a very different vision of Iraq than we do, than the Iraqis have, which is a democratic Iraq where basic rights protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: A Marine Corps official identified one of the men as 33- year-old Marvin Best (ph) of Prosser, Washington. And the other three Marines have not yet been identified. But their deaths bring to 844 the number of U.S. service members who have been killed in Iraq since the war began -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Kathleen, yesterday, we saw the disturbing video. Today, many want to know the situation surrounding the South Korean hostage.

KOCH: Well, right now, coalition forces are doing their very best to collect whatever intelligence they can that could aid in the search and the location and the rescue of this man who is obviously in very desperate -- desperate conditions right now with these Iraqi insurgents who have taken him hostage, saying that they will behead him if South Korea does not pull its troops out of Iraq and not send in anymore.

Now, South Korea right now has about 600 forces in Iraq. And they say they are sticking with their plans to begin sending in another 3,000 starting in the month of August.

NGUYEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: In the Scott Peterson trial, the judge has decided a juror seen on videotape briefly talking with Laci Peterson's brother can stay on the jury. CNN's Ted Rowlands is covering the trial in Redwood City, California -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, the judge in this case took about an hour this morning to conduct a hearing, if you will, in his chambers, and then came out and told the court that juror number five will remain as a member of this panel. The issue here was Brent Rocha, Laci Peterson's brother, and this juror had an interaction late last week as they entered the courthouse at the security checkpoint.

As they were gathering their items at the back end of the metal detector, they had some sort of discussion. It was short, it seemed to just be a "how you doing" kind of thing. But caught on tape, and the judge was alerted that this had taken place.

Well, both sides went into chambers with not only juror number five, but Brent Rocha was also this morning brought from the courtroom into chambers to be questioned. And afterwards, the judge said that this seemed to be an incident that was blown out of proportion by the media and had no basis -- and had no misconduct. So therefore, juror number five stays on the panel.

Meanwhile, testimony did resume about 10:00 Pacific Time here this morning with one of Laci Peterson's longtime friends, Stacey Boyer (ph). She got up and testified, very emotionally, about her relationship with Peterson, and then said in the days following Laci Peterson's disappearance, she saw Scott Peterson early one morning vacuuming in front of the washer and dryer. And she said she thought that was odd and went up to Peterson and asked why he was doing that.

She says Peterson replied, "I just can't keep this house clean enough." She then went on to testify that during the search efforts, Peterson made a conscious decision to order everybody not to issue photographs of he and Laci together, saying he didn't want his photograph distributed to the media or displayed at the volunteer center, saying he wanted to keep the focus on Laci.

After Boyer (ph), another friend told the same story about the photographs. And then just before the break, Laci Peterson's yoga teacher testified briefly about an interaction she had, where Laci said she wasn't going to be walking the dog. At that point, Geragos, Mark Geragos, Scott Peterson's attorney, jumped up and had a discovery issue. They met briefly, and then just took the recess -- the lunch recess to try to iron it out -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So Ted, I'm just curious, was it ever confirmed to what was really said, the exact dialogue that was caught on tape?

ROWLANDS: It wasn't confirmed in open court yet. However, what happened in chambers was recorded. And the judge says he will make that public information so that everybody can understand what an innocent encounter it was.

And he took some time to really lambaste the media for blowing this out of proportion. Geragos then jumped up and added his two cents, saying a lot of reporters are getting it wrong and reporting false information concerning juror number five.

PHILLIPS: Except for you. CNN's Ted Rowlands, live from Redwood City, thanks.

NGUYEN: War brings about an uncomfortable role reversal for a father with a Marine son on the front lines. He has written a book about the battle in his own heart over his son's sacrifice.

And Goosen lays a golden egg. The U.S. Open champion opens up to LIVE FROM about his win and some of the odd things we discovered on his mantle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: America's soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines serve their country by choice. The military is all volunteer. But the parents, wives, husbands and children of these troops are drafted. Drafted to love someone who is daily putting his or her life on the line.

One of these draftees, the father of a Marine corporal, Frank Schaeffer, has chronicled what it's like to be the one at home while a son is at war. The book is called "Faith of Our Sons: A Father's Wartime Diary." He joins me now live from Boston.

Frank, great to see you again.

FRANK SCHAEFFER, AUTHOR, "FAITH OF OUR SONS": Nice to see you, too, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, look, I want to go straight to a part in the book that you and I probably decided together this kind of sums up I think what you were trying to say. And it's talking about undeserved grace. "To love a child going to a war is to admit that the mystery of sacrifice is greater than any explanation of it. To come to rely on my e-mail correspondents who have reached out because of the brotherhood their sons and daughters share with my son is undeserved grace."

Let's talk about that undeserved grace.

SCHAEFFER: Well, Kyra, when I had my son go to war, he had already been in the Marine Corps about three and a half years. And I had written a book called "Keeping Faith," A Father-Son Diary About Love in the United States Marine Corps," that we had talked about on an earlier program. And as a result, I got thousands of e-mails from people who shared the experience of being a parent of someone serving our country.

And I soon found that with my son going to war, I was depending on these brothers and sisters in the American military family for my own sustenance, spiritually and mentally, in terms of just feeling at peace with what was going on. There had been people from World War II who wrote about their experiences to me and how they survived them.

And so as I began to keep the diary that turned into this book, "Faith of Our Sons: A Father's Wartime Diary," I soon realized that I needed the military family and the grace and the help and the love they brought to me far more than they needed me or my book.

And really, I would get up early in the morning with my heart pounding, jolted awake by worries about my son at war, and I'd go to my e-mail and it was always as if angels had arrived, literally -- I felt that -- and reached out and touched me with love and love for the country and love for my son. And these were people I had never met.

And the military family is wonderful that way in that it sustains family members and wives and husbands often when the rest of the country don't seem to care. Because there's a lot of people who just seem to think this is party time, even though we're at war. Life goes on as normal. So you reach out to those people who can understand where you're at, and for me that was the undeserved grace, to find they were there ready to help me.

PHILLIPS: Well, talk about reaching out. I picked this one part in the book where you and your son, John, and your wife have this exchange, all three of you. I'm just going to take a little bit from each one, and then I want you to talk about this. I thought it was pretty intense. John writes to you, "Dear Mom and Dad, I've learned that the right thing and the necessary thing are not synonymous. Rarely are they even in the same ballpark. It's very depressing to see the results of some necessary actions. It's never pure, and there is no purity here."

"I've started to pray again. Some of what I have had to do here will eat my soul the rest of my life."

Then you respond, "Dear John, the point is to be honest enough to admit who we are. I'm sorry that you have to see and do things that I'll never be able to help you bear. I'm sorry, too, that because your part in this conflict is secret, you will never have the solace of talking certain things out with your mom and me. I love you with all my heart and always will -- Dad."

And then your wife added on, "Dearest, you are very precise in writing about the crappiness of the human condition. Thank you. You are brave and right to articulate the darkness. I would be much more worried if you liked war. I want angels to comfort you and bring you back safely -- Mom."

What did all of you learn about darkness through this e-mail exchange?

SCHAEFFER: Well, we learned that, as I relayed in this book, "Faith of Our Sons," that when you send a son or a daughter to war, the whole family goes with him. And so his experiences became our experiences in that we were worrying about what he was seeing and having to do.

You know, you worry about whether your child is going to be killed, whether they're going to be maimed. But you also worry who they're going to become. And John sent us a flow of e-mails that I've included in the book, "Faith of Our Sons."

And I put them there so people can see the development of a young man going from someone who had never served, to a man wise beyond his years, realizing there's a true darkness to war, a true horror. Seeing that, not reveling in it at all, sad at what he's had to do, while, nevertheless, believing that the cause was just.

He was in Afghanistan chasing al Qaeda and the Taliban, and he believed in that mission. Nevertheless, it was hard thing for him, and really broke my wife and my heart to know that he was suffering of what he had to see.

I mean, look, I don't want to get all touchy-feely, but this was a kid who, when we went fishing in the Merrimack River, would always talk me into letting the stripers go. You know, he's a gentle soul.

And he went into this military of ours to serve our country, like so many young men and women. But that doesn't mean the hardships of war roll off his back like water off a duck's back. And it was hard for my wife and I to see that. And so all we could do is extend that government. And again, this sense of grace and the love of god in our lives, and the power of prayer, and the answered prayers, not just in the big dramatic thing of bringing John back safe and sound, but also in watching over him and guarding him spiritually. So it was such a relief to us to realize that he also was turning to prayer in this hour of need.

And "Faith of Our Sons" is about the spiritual strength, as well as the family bonds that get a family through this war. And as I said a little moment ago, one of the tough things for a parent is realizing that a lot of our leaders don't have skin in the game, a lot of the people who call the shots in this country are elites in the media and in the entertainment business.

Unlike in World War II, where everybody was pulling together, a lot of the volunteers in our military do not come from the wealthy elite. And really, it's time to understand that so many parents have to go it alone in the sense that they're elite, they're leaders, 535 members of Congress, only six have people in the military today. Only one actively serving in harm's way right now, as far as I know.

And as a parent, what you come to realize is that you're kind of alone in this except for prayer and the other parents who are in it with you. And that's what I tried to express in the book.

PHILLIPS: Well, Frank, we're going to do something unique here. I'm going to ask you to turn to page 158 of the book. And you talk about the fact that not only does your son have the tough soul of a Marine, but he also has a gentle soul. I'd like you to read the poem that he wrote to you, please, as we take our viewers to break.

SCHAEFFER: Well, he wrote this after helping put coffins on an airplane of his fellow soldiers who had been killed. "Standing at attention, Humvee rolls slowly by. Salute brought up and held, (AUDIO GAP), flag draped, two men, heart-wrenching sacrifice."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. That's Retief Goosen, shining moment right there. He one-putted the final six greens, taking a two-shot victory over Phil Mickelson at the U.S. Open. And guess what? Retief Goosen is letting us share in his glory today from Orlando, Florida.

A little hot there, too. Are you bearing -- bearing the sweat, Retief?

RETIEF GOOSEN, U.S. OPEN CHAMP: Yes. It's pretty warm out here. But I'm really enjoying every moment of it. It's a wonderful feeling.

PHILLIPS: Well, this has got to be an amazing time for your family. I mean, dad introduced you to golf back when you were 11 years old. Did you ever think that we'd be doing this interview on CNN?

GOOSEN: Well, definitely not. But, you know, pretty much when I was 16 I knew that golf was going to be my living. And it's turned out very well so far.

PHILLIPS: Well, is this true that your dad is a 10 handicapper?

GOOSEN: My dad was actually a two handicapper at one stage. But he's really taught me the game, even my two elder brothers. And here I am today. And he was obviously a good teacher.

PHILLIPS: Obviously. Well, look, I've been reading about you since this win. I understand you were plagued by some pretty bad luck, even struck by lightning at one point?

GOOSEN: That's right. Yeah. I was 16 when I got hit by lightning on a golf course. And I try and stay away from the thunderstorms now and be indoors.

PHILLIPS: I don't blame you. Well, you were quite a bolt of lightning during the open over the weekend. But, you know, your luck has changed.

It wasn't just over the weekend. But we've been doing some more research on you, and I found a number of pictures here.

We've got you winning the Bell South Classic. I love this trophy. It's like hands of god coming from the heavens. And then, of course, the Scottish Open trophy, kind of like, I guess, a White House on top of a spaceship.

And finally, how about this one? The statute of David a bit abbreviated. This was the Lancome trophy. You've got quite a collection.

GOOSEN: Yes, I've got a few of those at home. It's wonderful traditional trophies, those. And it's not too often that you see something like that in the average cup you have.

PHILLIPS: Which one stands out to you? Was there ever a time where you received one of those trophies and you thought, hmm, where am I going to put this in the house?

GOOSEN: I think the trophy Lancome was the one. It was a trophy that was extremely heavy to pick up in the first place. But it's something unusual, not something you see every day.

PHILLIPS: So I'm curious, what did your wife say as you brought these trophies home?

GOOSEN: Well, first of all, well done, I think. I think the trophies don't mind that much. Some more money for her to spend.

PHILLIPS: Oh, there you go, speaking from the heart. Tracy (ph) is a lucky woman. And I know Tracy (ph) and Leo (ph) were there. You have a 16-month-old, Leo (ph). What a cutie pie.

Was this just an amazing moment for you and the family? What did she say to you? What did you say when you grabbed little Leo (ph)? GOOSEN: Well, yes, it was great that they -- that she was there this time. You know, in 2001, when I won it, she wasn't there. And this time when she was there, it was great to have my family there and share in a moment with me. It was probably the best part of the tournament.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what, you were the best part of that tournament for a lot of people. It was exciting to see you win. We're going to be following you now. The Goose, I understand that's going to stick in our run down. We hope to be seeing more wins for you and you'll come back and see us.

GOOSEN: Yes, definitely. Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Retief.

NGUYEN: The Goose.

PHILLIPS: The Goose.

NGUYEN: I love that one trophy.

PHILLIPS: And it's not -- what's that?

NGUYEN: It was censored.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Can you imagine?

NGUYEN: No. Don't even want to go there.

PHILLIPS: I think it was all there, yes. And it's not the goose like from "Top Gun."

NGUYEN: Right.

PHILLIPS: Yes, big difference.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that goose.

PHILLIPS: Yes, really.

All right. Well, that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

NGUYEN: And now to take us through the next hour of political headlines is Judy Woodruff.

Hi there, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hey, Betty. Thanks to you and to Kyra.

We are just hours away, you know, from the release of one of the most talked about political biographies since, well, his wife's. Former labor secretary, Robert Reich, joins me to talk about President Clinton's new book. Plus, more than two weeks after the death of President Reagan, it is the Democrats instead of the Republicans who are invoking Reagan's name to push their favorite issues. Our Ed Henry joins us for a look at this surprising twist.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

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Aired June 21, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to CNN's LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Miles is on assignment. Here's what's happening at this hour.

Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader has a running mate. Nader has tapped Peter Camejo, a longtime Green Party activist. Camejo is a broker who promotes socially responsible investment. He was the Green Party candidate for California governor last year.

SpaceShipOne is safely on the ground after making history as the first manned private sector craft in space. Pilot Michael Melvill took off from the Mojave Desert in Burt Rutan's rocket plane this morning and climbed above the 62.5-mile boundary of Earth's atmosphere.

The only U.S. resident known to have the human form of mad cow disease is dead. CNN has learned 25-year-old Florida resident Charlene Sing (ph) died from the illness on Sunday. Health officials say the British native contracted the disease in England before moving to the U.S. back in 1992.

PHILLIPS: First this hour, the prisoner abuse scandal and top American military officials in charge of running Iraq. A military judge has cleared the way for some of the highest of higher-ups to be deposed in upcoming courts-martial. We get the story now from Baghdad, from CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the pictures that shocked the world, sullied America's reputation and severely damaged its standing amongst Iraqis. The defense lawyer for Specialist Charles Graner, seen leering and giving the thumbs up, says he wants to question Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The secretary of defense, in waging a war on terrorism correctly, loosened the reigns somewhat on interrogators.

AMANPOUR: Attorneys for Graner and Sergeant Javal Davis will claim their clients were just following orders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how do we know that? Because high ranking individuals in government, in the military, have given statements under oath in reference to what was permissible.

AMANPOUR: Graner's attorney says he strongly believes that General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S.-led forces at the time, knew of the abuse as early as November. Not, as he claims, in January.

(on camera): The court-martial proceedings that have been going on inside this room are partly designed to staunch the flow of bad blood towards the United States. A new poll that was commissioned by the U.S.-led authorities here finds that 54 percent of Iraqis believe that all Americans behave as badly as the accused.

(voice-over): Outside Abu Ghraib, prisoners' relatives are still dissatisfied. "This court is not right," says Ali Jasan (ph), the father of a prisoner, "because the soldiers are being tried by Americans. We want the court to be held by the U.N. and neutral countries."

No trial date has been set yet. Defense lawyers say they won't be ready until October. U.S. military officials say trials could start late August.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: At last word, the military was providing little information concerning the deaths of four Marines in an insurgent stronghold west of Baghdad. But video of dead Marines is airing around the world. CNN's Kathleen Koch is standing by live at the Pentagon to tell us what she's been able to learn from there.

Hi, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.

A very grim discovery made by the military today in the Al Ambar (ph) province of Iraq. Four members of the U.S. Marine Expeditionary Force were patrolling near the city of Ramadi when they did not report into headquarters at the time that they were expected to. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt says that a quick reaction force was then rushed to their location and it discovered the bodies of the four men. As you can see there, very troubling video.

It appears that the Marines were ambushed. But Kimmitt says that no information will be given out on exactly what happened until the families of the men have been notified. A coalition spokesman says it's the kind of attack that fighters loyal to suspected terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi are increasingly mounting as the handover deadline nears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: Now there are nine days left. They're pulling out all the stops. I don't know if they were certainly behind the killing of these four soldiers, but the spirit, the strategy, the sentiment is the same. It is by people who have a very different vision of Iraq than we do, than the Iraqis have, which is a democratic Iraq where basic rights protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: A Marine Corps official identified one of the men as 33- year-old Marvin Best (ph) of Prosser, Washington. And the other three Marines have not yet been identified. But their deaths bring to 844 the number of U.S. service members who have been killed in Iraq since the war began -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Kathleen, yesterday, we saw the disturbing video. Today, many want to know the situation surrounding the South Korean hostage.

KOCH: Well, right now, coalition forces are doing their very best to collect whatever intelligence they can that could aid in the search and the location and the rescue of this man who is obviously in very desperate -- desperate conditions right now with these Iraqi insurgents who have taken him hostage, saying that they will behead him if South Korea does not pull its troops out of Iraq and not send in anymore.

Now, South Korea right now has about 600 forces in Iraq. And they say they are sticking with their plans to begin sending in another 3,000 starting in the month of August.

NGUYEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: In the Scott Peterson trial, the judge has decided a juror seen on videotape briefly talking with Laci Peterson's brother can stay on the jury. CNN's Ted Rowlands is covering the trial in Redwood City, California -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, the judge in this case took about an hour this morning to conduct a hearing, if you will, in his chambers, and then came out and told the court that juror number five will remain as a member of this panel. The issue here was Brent Rocha, Laci Peterson's brother, and this juror had an interaction late last week as they entered the courthouse at the security checkpoint.

As they were gathering their items at the back end of the metal detector, they had some sort of discussion. It was short, it seemed to just be a "how you doing" kind of thing. But caught on tape, and the judge was alerted that this had taken place.

Well, both sides went into chambers with not only juror number five, but Brent Rocha was also this morning brought from the courtroom into chambers to be questioned. And afterwards, the judge said that this seemed to be an incident that was blown out of proportion by the media and had no basis -- and had no misconduct. So therefore, juror number five stays on the panel.

Meanwhile, testimony did resume about 10:00 Pacific Time here this morning with one of Laci Peterson's longtime friends, Stacey Boyer (ph). She got up and testified, very emotionally, about her relationship with Peterson, and then said in the days following Laci Peterson's disappearance, she saw Scott Peterson early one morning vacuuming in front of the washer and dryer. And she said she thought that was odd and went up to Peterson and asked why he was doing that.

She says Peterson replied, "I just can't keep this house clean enough." She then went on to testify that during the search efforts, Peterson made a conscious decision to order everybody not to issue photographs of he and Laci together, saying he didn't want his photograph distributed to the media or displayed at the volunteer center, saying he wanted to keep the focus on Laci.

After Boyer (ph), another friend told the same story about the photographs. And then just before the break, Laci Peterson's yoga teacher testified briefly about an interaction she had, where Laci said she wasn't going to be walking the dog. At that point, Geragos, Mark Geragos, Scott Peterson's attorney, jumped up and had a discovery issue. They met briefly, and then just took the recess -- the lunch recess to try to iron it out -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So Ted, I'm just curious, was it ever confirmed to what was really said, the exact dialogue that was caught on tape?

ROWLANDS: It wasn't confirmed in open court yet. However, what happened in chambers was recorded. And the judge says he will make that public information so that everybody can understand what an innocent encounter it was.

And he took some time to really lambaste the media for blowing this out of proportion. Geragos then jumped up and added his two cents, saying a lot of reporters are getting it wrong and reporting false information concerning juror number five.

PHILLIPS: Except for you. CNN's Ted Rowlands, live from Redwood City, thanks.

NGUYEN: War brings about an uncomfortable role reversal for a father with a Marine son on the front lines. He has written a book about the battle in his own heart over his son's sacrifice.

And Goosen lays a golden egg. The U.S. Open champion opens up to LIVE FROM about his win and some of the odd things we discovered on his mantle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: America's soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines serve their country by choice. The military is all volunteer. But the parents, wives, husbands and children of these troops are drafted. Drafted to love someone who is daily putting his or her life on the line.

One of these draftees, the father of a Marine corporal, Frank Schaeffer, has chronicled what it's like to be the one at home while a son is at war. The book is called "Faith of Our Sons: A Father's Wartime Diary." He joins me now live from Boston.

Frank, great to see you again.

FRANK SCHAEFFER, AUTHOR, "FAITH OF OUR SONS": Nice to see you, too, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, look, I want to go straight to a part in the book that you and I probably decided together this kind of sums up I think what you were trying to say. And it's talking about undeserved grace. "To love a child going to a war is to admit that the mystery of sacrifice is greater than any explanation of it. To come to rely on my e-mail correspondents who have reached out because of the brotherhood their sons and daughters share with my son is undeserved grace."

Let's talk about that undeserved grace.

SCHAEFFER: Well, Kyra, when I had my son go to war, he had already been in the Marine Corps about three and a half years. And I had written a book called "Keeping Faith," A Father-Son Diary About Love in the United States Marine Corps," that we had talked about on an earlier program. And as a result, I got thousands of e-mails from people who shared the experience of being a parent of someone serving our country.

And I soon found that with my son going to war, I was depending on these brothers and sisters in the American military family for my own sustenance, spiritually and mentally, in terms of just feeling at peace with what was going on. There had been people from World War II who wrote about their experiences to me and how they survived them.

And so as I began to keep the diary that turned into this book, "Faith of Our Sons: A Father's Wartime Diary," I soon realized that I needed the military family and the grace and the help and the love they brought to me far more than they needed me or my book.

And really, I would get up early in the morning with my heart pounding, jolted awake by worries about my son at war, and I'd go to my e-mail and it was always as if angels had arrived, literally -- I felt that -- and reached out and touched me with love and love for the country and love for my son. And these were people I had never met.

And the military family is wonderful that way in that it sustains family members and wives and husbands often when the rest of the country don't seem to care. Because there's a lot of people who just seem to think this is party time, even though we're at war. Life goes on as normal. So you reach out to those people who can understand where you're at, and for me that was the undeserved grace, to find they were there ready to help me.

PHILLIPS: Well, talk about reaching out. I picked this one part in the book where you and your son, John, and your wife have this exchange, all three of you. I'm just going to take a little bit from each one, and then I want you to talk about this. I thought it was pretty intense. John writes to you, "Dear Mom and Dad, I've learned that the right thing and the necessary thing are not synonymous. Rarely are they even in the same ballpark. It's very depressing to see the results of some necessary actions. It's never pure, and there is no purity here."

"I've started to pray again. Some of what I have had to do here will eat my soul the rest of my life."

Then you respond, "Dear John, the point is to be honest enough to admit who we are. I'm sorry that you have to see and do things that I'll never be able to help you bear. I'm sorry, too, that because your part in this conflict is secret, you will never have the solace of talking certain things out with your mom and me. I love you with all my heart and always will -- Dad."

And then your wife added on, "Dearest, you are very precise in writing about the crappiness of the human condition. Thank you. You are brave and right to articulate the darkness. I would be much more worried if you liked war. I want angels to comfort you and bring you back safely -- Mom."

What did all of you learn about darkness through this e-mail exchange?

SCHAEFFER: Well, we learned that, as I relayed in this book, "Faith of Our Sons," that when you send a son or a daughter to war, the whole family goes with him. And so his experiences became our experiences in that we were worrying about what he was seeing and having to do.

You know, you worry about whether your child is going to be killed, whether they're going to be maimed. But you also worry who they're going to become. And John sent us a flow of e-mails that I've included in the book, "Faith of Our Sons."

And I put them there so people can see the development of a young man going from someone who had never served, to a man wise beyond his years, realizing there's a true darkness to war, a true horror. Seeing that, not reveling in it at all, sad at what he's had to do, while, nevertheless, believing that the cause was just.

He was in Afghanistan chasing al Qaeda and the Taliban, and he believed in that mission. Nevertheless, it was hard thing for him, and really broke my wife and my heart to know that he was suffering of what he had to see.

I mean, look, I don't want to get all touchy-feely, but this was a kid who, when we went fishing in the Merrimack River, would always talk me into letting the stripers go. You know, he's a gentle soul.

And he went into this military of ours to serve our country, like so many young men and women. But that doesn't mean the hardships of war roll off his back like water off a duck's back. And it was hard for my wife and I to see that. And so all we could do is extend that government. And again, this sense of grace and the love of god in our lives, and the power of prayer, and the answered prayers, not just in the big dramatic thing of bringing John back safe and sound, but also in watching over him and guarding him spiritually. So it was such a relief to us to realize that he also was turning to prayer in this hour of need.

And "Faith of Our Sons" is about the spiritual strength, as well as the family bonds that get a family through this war. And as I said a little moment ago, one of the tough things for a parent is realizing that a lot of our leaders don't have skin in the game, a lot of the people who call the shots in this country are elites in the media and in the entertainment business.

Unlike in World War II, where everybody was pulling together, a lot of the volunteers in our military do not come from the wealthy elite. And really, it's time to understand that so many parents have to go it alone in the sense that they're elite, they're leaders, 535 members of Congress, only six have people in the military today. Only one actively serving in harm's way right now, as far as I know.

And as a parent, what you come to realize is that you're kind of alone in this except for prayer and the other parents who are in it with you. And that's what I tried to express in the book.

PHILLIPS: Well, Frank, we're going to do something unique here. I'm going to ask you to turn to page 158 of the book. And you talk about the fact that not only does your son have the tough soul of a Marine, but he also has a gentle soul. I'd like you to read the poem that he wrote to you, please, as we take our viewers to break.

SCHAEFFER: Well, he wrote this after helping put coffins on an airplane of his fellow soldiers who had been killed. "Standing at attention, Humvee rolls slowly by. Salute brought up and held, (AUDIO GAP), flag draped, two men, heart-wrenching sacrifice."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. That's Retief Goosen, shining moment right there. He one-putted the final six greens, taking a two-shot victory over Phil Mickelson at the U.S. Open. And guess what? Retief Goosen is letting us share in his glory today from Orlando, Florida.

A little hot there, too. Are you bearing -- bearing the sweat, Retief?

RETIEF GOOSEN, U.S. OPEN CHAMP: Yes. It's pretty warm out here. But I'm really enjoying every moment of it. It's a wonderful feeling.

PHILLIPS: Well, this has got to be an amazing time for your family. I mean, dad introduced you to golf back when you were 11 years old. Did you ever think that we'd be doing this interview on CNN?

GOOSEN: Well, definitely not. But, you know, pretty much when I was 16 I knew that golf was going to be my living. And it's turned out very well so far.

PHILLIPS: Well, is this true that your dad is a 10 handicapper?

GOOSEN: My dad was actually a two handicapper at one stage. But he's really taught me the game, even my two elder brothers. And here I am today. And he was obviously a good teacher.

PHILLIPS: Obviously. Well, look, I've been reading about you since this win. I understand you were plagued by some pretty bad luck, even struck by lightning at one point?

GOOSEN: That's right. Yeah. I was 16 when I got hit by lightning on a golf course. And I try and stay away from the thunderstorms now and be indoors.

PHILLIPS: I don't blame you. Well, you were quite a bolt of lightning during the open over the weekend. But, you know, your luck has changed.

It wasn't just over the weekend. But we've been doing some more research on you, and I found a number of pictures here.

We've got you winning the Bell South Classic. I love this trophy. It's like hands of god coming from the heavens. And then, of course, the Scottish Open trophy, kind of like, I guess, a White House on top of a spaceship.

And finally, how about this one? The statute of David a bit abbreviated. This was the Lancome trophy. You've got quite a collection.

GOOSEN: Yes, I've got a few of those at home. It's wonderful traditional trophies, those. And it's not too often that you see something like that in the average cup you have.

PHILLIPS: Which one stands out to you? Was there ever a time where you received one of those trophies and you thought, hmm, where am I going to put this in the house?

GOOSEN: I think the trophy Lancome was the one. It was a trophy that was extremely heavy to pick up in the first place. But it's something unusual, not something you see every day.

PHILLIPS: So I'm curious, what did your wife say as you brought these trophies home?

GOOSEN: Well, first of all, well done, I think. I think the trophies don't mind that much. Some more money for her to spend.

PHILLIPS: Oh, there you go, speaking from the heart. Tracy (ph) is a lucky woman. And I know Tracy (ph) and Leo (ph) were there. You have a 16-month-old, Leo (ph). What a cutie pie.

Was this just an amazing moment for you and the family? What did she say to you? What did you say when you grabbed little Leo (ph)? GOOSEN: Well, yes, it was great that they -- that she was there this time. You know, in 2001, when I won it, she wasn't there. And this time when she was there, it was great to have my family there and share in a moment with me. It was probably the best part of the tournament.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what, you were the best part of that tournament for a lot of people. It was exciting to see you win. We're going to be following you now. The Goose, I understand that's going to stick in our run down. We hope to be seeing more wins for you and you'll come back and see us.

GOOSEN: Yes, definitely. Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Retief.

NGUYEN: The Goose.

PHILLIPS: The Goose.

NGUYEN: I love that one trophy.

PHILLIPS: And it's not -- what's that?

NGUYEN: It was censored.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Can you imagine?

NGUYEN: No. Don't even want to go there.

PHILLIPS: I think it was all there, yes. And it's not the goose like from "Top Gun."

NGUYEN: Right.

PHILLIPS: Yes, big difference.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that goose.

PHILLIPS: Yes, really.

All right. Well, that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

NGUYEN: And now to take us through the next hour of political headlines is Judy Woodruff.

Hi there, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hey, Betty. Thanks to you and to Kyra.

We are just hours away, you know, from the release of one of the most talked about political biographies since, well, his wife's. Former labor secretary, Robert Reich, joins me to talk about President Clinton's new book. Plus, more than two weeks after the death of President Reagan, it is the Democrats instead of the Republicans who are invoking Reagan's name to push their favorite issues. Our Ed Henry joins us for a look at this surprising twist.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

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