Return to Transcripts main page
Live From...
South Korean Hostage Killed in Iraq; Powell: Terrorism Report Not Manipulated; Clinton Memoir Already a Best-Seller
Aired June 22, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, ANCHOR: All right. As we continue to wait for those documents, is the White House elaborating in any way on how the U.S. and perhaps South Korea may have worked together in trying to win the safe release of Kim Sung-Il, who we know now has been killed in Iraq?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, unclear that behind the scenes working certainly you could imagine that there was a great deal of that, but what was interesting in this meeting is that obviously the reason allegedly that the people who did this gave was because they didn't want South Korea's 3,000 troops to come into Iraq.
And it was noteworthy that the president had -- the prime minister of Hungary, who does have some troops in Iraq, sitting next to him pledging that he, too, will keep his troops there -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Dana Bash, thanks very much from the White House now.
Now we want to go -- oh, sorry. Go ahead.
KYRA PHILLIPS: Take you live to Secretary of State Colin Powell, now talking about those terror numbers. It's a story we've been talking about. Actually, he's talking about South Korea now and the hostage that was killed within the past couple of hours.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: How were things categorized? What system was in place? So to see if we could have solid trend analysis over time. And we discovered gaps in the data. We discovered errors in the way the data was being added up.
And over the last two weeks, this is working seven days a week, all of the analysts have come together and agreed on what you are about to -- what you are about to receive from these two gentlemen. And this will be the basis upon which the TTIC and the State Department will be doing our work in the future.
And we will also be consulting with Congress and any other experts who can help us do a better job.
We have only one goal with this report, and that is to accurately reflect the pattern of terrorism that existed throughout the world during the period of the report. The report is not designed to make our efforts look better or worse or terrorism look better or worse but to provide the facts to the American people. And I think the way in which we have responded to this challenge to the report, by coming straight out and saying, "You're right; it needs correction," and it has been corrected. And as soon as this briefing is over, before the afternoon's over, I expect that the corrected information will be in our web sites and then we'll figure out how to put out errata sheets or additional information that will correct the hard copy versions of the report.
But the American people can have confidence in what we are doing and what we have done.
This report was inaccurate in the sense that the numbers were off. When you hear the briefing, you will see that they were off, but not off by wild amounts. The number of wounded is off quite a bit, which is a function of, as I said, some calculating errors as well as the nature of the particular incidents.
Thank you. I've got to get to a White House meeting. I've got to get...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be very quick.
POWELL: Be very quick, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interrogation documents, the practice, the procedures used for interrogating prisoners are coming out apparently today. As a former chief of staff, do you have any observations on the Pentagon's system of interrogating prisoners?
POWELL: I'm going to let the Pentagon present whatever information it's going to present. All I know is that the president has made it clear, and it has always been my position as well and a code that I live with for 35 years and four months, that we don't torture people who are in our care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, a question about your...
PHILLIPS: Secretary of State Colin Powell, making comments, obviously, on the Abu Ghraib and the treatment of the prisoners there. Also making comments about the South Korean hostage who we have now reported has been killed.
In addition, making a number of comments about the revised terror report. The annual Patterns of Global Terrorism report came out initially, stating that 307 people died in 190 acts of international terrorism in 2003.
Well, Colin Powell coming out and saying those numbers were off, not manipulated. Once that the mistake was discovered, and it was nearly double. We're talking 625 people killed in the year 2003 by acts of terrorism.
Secretary of state Colin Powell coming forward and just trying to straighten out what has become a bit of a controversial story.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A South Korean businessman abducted in Iraq has been killed. Officials in Seoul say they have identified the remains of Kim Sung-Il. U.S. Troops found his body on a road leading from Baghdad to Fallujah.
The kidnappers demanded South Korea withdraw its troops from Iraq and cancel plans to send more. That did not happen.
A source says the Pentagon will release documents today showing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld never approved a controversial interrogation technique.
The memos deal with an al Qaeda detainee at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The senior defense official says Rumsfeld approved only mild, non- injurious physical contact.
Revised upward. The State Department now says 625 people were victims of terrorist attacks in 2003. That's more than double the number reported earlier. In April the department reported that 307 people died in some 190 acts of international terrorism last year.
And a class action suit with a capital "C." A federal judge has granted class action status in a sexual discrimination case against Wal-Mart. It could represent more than 1 1/2 million current and former workers, the largest civil rights case in U.S. history.
The suit claims the nation's leading retailer paid female workers less than man for comparable jobs and bypassed women for promotions. Wal-Mart says that it will appeal.
WHITFIELD: Well, it looks like former President Bill Clinton can add another title to his already impressive resume: best-selling author.
His autobiography called "My Life" is flying off the bookstore shelves today. Our Kelly Wallace is in New York in mid-town, where fans are lining up to get their copies.
Now, is he still there, signing those copies now, Kelly?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is, Fredricka.
And his attorney, Bob Barnett, was telling us a short time ago that the bookstore gave out some 1,500 wristbands and that Bill Clinton is expected to sign every person's copy of a book.
He has been inside this bookstore for more than 90 minutes now. He was only supposed to be here an hour.
But this is, after all, a master politician who loves the art of campaigning and seems to be relishing this, his latest campaign, selling his book and polishing his legacy.
Earlier, when he got inside that bookstore, a reporter asked him a question. Here's what he had to say when the reporter asked if he accomplished what he wanted in his autobiography.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that's something only the readers can decide. But I tried to tell the story of my life and the story of America's life in the last half of the 20th Century, and then I tried to elevate the importance of politics.
Again, I tried to show people that these political jobs are deciding jobs and that people, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, we have different ideas. We have different policies, and the decisions we make have consequences for people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And a lot of excitement here in mid-town Manhattan when the former president arrived. Again, more than 90 minutes ago.
I've heard someone describe this as sort of the "Harry Potter" for adults. Certainly a little bit of Clinton-mania.
Because you have had hundreds and hundreds of people, definitely more than 1,000, lining up here in mid-town Manhattan, some waiting as many as 12 hours, hoping to get inside this bookstore to get an autograph from the former president. Some waiting, again, in the pouring rain.
We've been talking to people throughout the day. Why did they want to come? You have Clinton lovers here. Someone described him as the JFK of this generation.
You also have those who are just curious, wanting to see a former president. You even have his critics who wanted to check out the book and meet him. And of course some autograph seekers.
Again, as you said, Fredricka, he's already a best-selling author. Bob Barnett telling CNN that Bill Clinton currently occupies the No. 1 spot in three different places on Amazon: for his book, for his audio excerpts, and for the large print version for those visually impaired.
And from here he heads up to Harlem, near his office, for another book signing -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And so Kelly, you described the audience out there, those who are in line. Even among them some of his critics who simply want to make sure that they get a piece of history, as well, even though they may not necessarily agree with the man or his policies.
WALLACE: Exactly. You have had people said no, they're not excited about him, not really excited about the book, but they still wanted to see the book. They want to hear what he had to say and, you know, everybody gets excited about seeing a former president.
But his critics are looking to see what he has to say, and there's a lot of questioning going on about what impact this could have on the presidential campaign, because some of his critics are fired up, saying any talk about Bill Clinton's presidency will only help president George W. Bush -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yes. All right. Kelly Wallace in mid-town Manhattan. Thanks very much.
Well, it seems like a perfect time to gauge how the public feels about the former president. For that let's go to Princeton, New Jersey. Gallup editor in chief Frank Newport is crunching some new poll numbers for us today.
Hi, Frank.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP EDITOR IN CHIEF: Hello, Fredricka.
Indeed Kelly just said that some admirers are saying that Bill Clinton is this generation's JFK. Not so says the whole American public.
We asked Americans how will these presidents go down in history? And here's what they just told us about Bill Clinton. It's not too bad a report card. Nine percent say he'll be outstanding; 29 percent above average. You put those top two together, that's about 38 percent who say that he'll be above average.
Thirty percent say he'll be average. And there are the detractors at the bottom of the chart, 31 percent say below average or poor.
The reason I say that he's no JFK, when we asked the same question about John Kennedy in this recent poll, we had 78 percent, 79 percent, 77 percent, in that range, saying Kennedy will go down in history as above average.
So at least at this point Americans don't put Clinton in that same category as JFK.
Now, during his eight years in office never a dull moment. Look at the ratings here. It was 55 percent average altogether. But notice how, just to look back on it, Clinton did so poorly in his first few years.
Don't give up hope. Just like Ronald Reagan, his ratings went up midway through his term.
And then this is the interesting paradox, Fredricka, we're still puzzling over. His highest ratings, those peaks you see there right about 1999, that was just as he was being impeached. His single highest job approval rating came in December of 1998, just after the House vote.
And as I mentioned, we're still trying to figure out psychologically why the public gave him such high ratings at that particular point in time -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: All right, Frank. Let's talk about another politician who right now is in some hot water. Is there any fallout from the resignation of Connecticut Governor John Rowland right now?
NEWPORT: Well, unfortunately, there's not a lot of room for there to be fallout. He's a state governor, had to resign under pressure, looked like he could have been impeached.
We've asked Americans, "How do you rate the honesty and ethics of various professions?" Those at the top are nurses and clergy and doctors and so forth.
State governors, just at 26 percent when we did our annual round up a few months ago, quite low. Journalists at about that level, unfortunately for journalists. And members of Congress, even lower down at 17 percent.
So the bottom line here is the Rowland resignation in Connecticut probably isn't going to do a lot to the reputation of state governors, because it wasn't all that great from the get-go -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Gallup editor-in-chief, Frank Newport, thanks very much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Under the radar. The Senate votes whether to pressure the Pentagon to change its policy on photographing America's war dead. Senator Frank Lautenberg will join us live on this debate.
And we'll take you inside America's first urban public boarding school. That's right, boarding school.
And live pictures now from the New York Stock Exchange. There's the numbers for you. Dow is up 12.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Our top story has been the talk about the South Korean hostage that was kidnapped a week ago by Islamic extremists. As you know, we've reported that indeed today he was killed, and Secretary of State Colin Powell responded to that killing just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWELL: The tragedy that we see on our screens this afternoon indicating that the South Korean hostage in Iraq, Mr. Kim Sung-Il, was beheaded by the evil terrorists who kidnapped him.
He was an innocent man, there to help the people of Iraq, cut down by senseless barbarism. We condemn such acts of terrorism against civilians who are there to build a peaceful and democratic Iraq.
We offer our sympathy and condolences to his family, and we stand with the people of South Korea at this time. As the president said a few moments ago, these evildoers will not stop us from our work. I'm pleased that the South Korean government has been steadfast over the last several days and remains steadfast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Once again, Secretary of State Colin Powell responding to the death of the young South Korean that was killed by the extremists in Iraq.
Well, straight ahead, a flag-draped coffin bearing the remains of a soldier that fought for his or her life in the war against terror. Should that be a private moment, or should the media be able to cover that homecoming? We're going to talk about it right after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A flag-draped coffin bearing the remains of a soldier killed on the battlefield returns home from war. Is it a private moment or an image all of America should share as a reminder of the cost of war?
That debate was at the center of a Senate vote to uphold a Pentagon policy banning such coverage. The debate has grown especially heated during the Iraq war. The latest casualty update lists 848 American military personnel who have died there.
Joining us from Capitol Hill, Senator Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey. He was a key sponsor of the effort to restore coverage of homecoming ceremonies.
Sir, it's nice to have you.
SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: It's good to be here. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about why this is so close to you and why you feel that there should be media coverage as a soldier, a Marine, or a sailor comes home in a casket.
LAUTENBERG: Well, I served in the Army for three years, much of it during World War II in Europe, and saw people who died and realized what a sacrifice it was to those families who lost a son or a brother or a sister.
And here we are. It's as if we're trying to conceal the cost of war from families, from people across the country.
Sixty-two percent of the public in the polls said that that image should be able to be seen in either television or print to understand what the cost of war is.
And not to invade anybody's privacy. We were very circumspect about that.
And to deny that fallen hero a tribute from his country or her country to say here's someone who died in the service of their country, and we want them to know that this flag representing all of America is there to accompany him to his -- to his grave.
PHILLIPS: Sir, do you really think that Americans do not understand the costs of war when you see these beheadings that are taking place, when you see so many soldiers dying, when you hear the testimony from friends and family in the United States? Do you really think Americans do not understand the cost of war?
LAUTENBERG: Well, first of all, the beheadings, as horrible as they are, are typically civilians who were captured. So we see the cost of terrorism.
But the cost of war, when it's just a bunch of numbers, doesn't have the same impact as seeing a casket returned to the country, covered over with a flag.
I went to Walter Reed Hospital, and I saw a fellow blinded in battle. And he said, "You know, I'll never be able to see my daughter again, but I can hold her in my arms."
And I said, "My gosh, if America understood how severe these penalties are when they're put upon a person, then I think we'd make sure, A, that we gave our soldiers and sailors, et cetera, everything they needed to fight the battle, gave them full support, but also understand that we have to bring this to a conclusion as quickly as possible, even as we defend this."
I'm not saying cut and run at all. But I am saying that it's important that America realizes how much grief a family goes through when they lose someone.
PHILLIPS: Sir, for the sake of fairness Senator John Warner, of course, takes the opposite approach to what you are saying. Let's listen to what he had to say on the floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: We have decided with the vote on the Warner Amendment that we're going to leave it to the families to decide what they want to do when the bodies arrive at the final resting place.
That's been the policy since 1991 through the Gulf War and through the operations of our two conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. I urge that it remain that way and not open up, as the Lautenberg Amendment directs, the secretary of defense shall develop a protocol that permits the media to attend the bodies as they arrive in the United States.
I yield the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Senator, we've heard the debate. That's what's been out there. Is this an issue of censorship or privacy? Should it be up to the family members? Let me ask you a question.
LAUTENBERG: Well...
PHILLIPS: Well, let me real quickly, watching all the Reagan coverage, the funeral, the memorial services, I mean, days of these very intense services honoring Ronald Reagan.
I received a number of e-mails from soldiers overseas, just an interesting point I want you to respond to, saying, "Why can't we have that kind of attention when we lose a brother or a sister overseas?"
LAUTENBERG: Well, I think the real reason is that they -- the Pentagon and the administration want to cover up what is the -- a look at the costs of war, a look at the fact that these caskets are coming home with the remains of those who fought or who died in the pursuit of their duty.
But Ronald Reagan, president in 1983, stood and received the caskets of those who -- Marines who were killed in Lebanon. And we've had receipt of the -- those remains by President Clinton for those remains of soldiers who fought in Kosovo, in Afghanistan.
And the reason that it's not happening is it's part, in my view, to be perfectly crude about this, is kind of to not let the American public really understand what it's like.
When you see a flag-draped coffin, and you see the ceremony that the honor guard goes through in presenting the flag to the family, as I did last week at Arlington Cemetery, it brings you to the realization that a great American has fallen, and we should pay tribute to that American.
And in no way, in no way is it fair to say that this would invade the privacy of any family. If it's a picture of a number of these, and no names. There's no identification.
And if the family said, "Look, we don't even want our son's coffin to be photographed en masse," absolutely not. And we left it up to the family. The dignity of the family was the thing that we were concerned about, the privacy of the family. But it was distorted, I think, to win an argument, and I regret it.
My dear friend John Warner, who really is an excellent leader in the Armed Services Committee, he's sensitive to the issues. He's a vet like I am.
PHILLIPS: Well, as the debate continues I think all Americans are definitely sensitive to it. We will never forget the lives lost in this war. Senator Frank Lautenberg, thank you.
LAUTENBERG: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Let's take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 22, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, ANCHOR: All right. As we continue to wait for those documents, is the White House elaborating in any way on how the U.S. and perhaps South Korea may have worked together in trying to win the safe release of Kim Sung-Il, who we know now has been killed in Iraq?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, unclear that behind the scenes working certainly you could imagine that there was a great deal of that, but what was interesting in this meeting is that obviously the reason allegedly that the people who did this gave was because they didn't want South Korea's 3,000 troops to come into Iraq.
And it was noteworthy that the president had -- the prime minister of Hungary, who does have some troops in Iraq, sitting next to him pledging that he, too, will keep his troops there -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Dana Bash, thanks very much from the White House now.
Now we want to go -- oh, sorry. Go ahead.
KYRA PHILLIPS: Take you live to Secretary of State Colin Powell, now talking about those terror numbers. It's a story we've been talking about. Actually, he's talking about South Korea now and the hostage that was killed within the past couple of hours.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: How were things categorized? What system was in place? So to see if we could have solid trend analysis over time. And we discovered gaps in the data. We discovered errors in the way the data was being added up.
And over the last two weeks, this is working seven days a week, all of the analysts have come together and agreed on what you are about to -- what you are about to receive from these two gentlemen. And this will be the basis upon which the TTIC and the State Department will be doing our work in the future.
And we will also be consulting with Congress and any other experts who can help us do a better job.
We have only one goal with this report, and that is to accurately reflect the pattern of terrorism that existed throughout the world during the period of the report. The report is not designed to make our efforts look better or worse or terrorism look better or worse but to provide the facts to the American people. And I think the way in which we have responded to this challenge to the report, by coming straight out and saying, "You're right; it needs correction," and it has been corrected. And as soon as this briefing is over, before the afternoon's over, I expect that the corrected information will be in our web sites and then we'll figure out how to put out errata sheets or additional information that will correct the hard copy versions of the report.
But the American people can have confidence in what we are doing and what we have done.
This report was inaccurate in the sense that the numbers were off. When you hear the briefing, you will see that they were off, but not off by wild amounts. The number of wounded is off quite a bit, which is a function of, as I said, some calculating errors as well as the nature of the particular incidents.
Thank you. I've got to get to a White House meeting. I've got to get...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be very quick.
POWELL: Be very quick, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interrogation documents, the practice, the procedures used for interrogating prisoners are coming out apparently today. As a former chief of staff, do you have any observations on the Pentagon's system of interrogating prisoners?
POWELL: I'm going to let the Pentagon present whatever information it's going to present. All I know is that the president has made it clear, and it has always been my position as well and a code that I live with for 35 years and four months, that we don't torture people who are in our care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, a question about your...
PHILLIPS: Secretary of State Colin Powell, making comments, obviously, on the Abu Ghraib and the treatment of the prisoners there. Also making comments about the South Korean hostage who we have now reported has been killed.
In addition, making a number of comments about the revised terror report. The annual Patterns of Global Terrorism report came out initially, stating that 307 people died in 190 acts of international terrorism in 2003.
Well, Colin Powell coming out and saying those numbers were off, not manipulated. Once that the mistake was discovered, and it was nearly double. We're talking 625 people killed in the year 2003 by acts of terrorism.
Secretary of state Colin Powell coming forward and just trying to straighten out what has become a bit of a controversial story.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A South Korean businessman abducted in Iraq has been killed. Officials in Seoul say they have identified the remains of Kim Sung-Il. U.S. Troops found his body on a road leading from Baghdad to Fallujah.
The kidnappers demanded South Korea withdraw its troops from Iraq and cancel plans to send more. That did not happen.
A source says the Pentagon will release documents today showing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld never approved a controversial interrogation technique.
The memos deal with an al Qaeda detainee at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The senior defense official says Rumsfeld approved only mild, non- injurious physical contact.
Revised upward. The State Department now says 625 people were victims of terrorist attacks in 2003. That's more than double the number reported earlier. In April the department reported that 307 people died in some 190 acts of international terrorism last year.
And a class action suit with a capital "C." A federal judge has granted class action status in a sexual discrimination case against Wal-Mart. It could represent more than 1 1/2 million current and former workers, the largest civil rights case in U.S. history.
The suit claims the nation's leading retailer paid female workers less than man for comparable jobs and bypassed women for promotions. Wal-Mart says that it will appeal.
WHITFIELD: Well, it looks like former President Bill Clinton can add another title to his already impressive resume: best-selling author.
His autobiography called "My Life" is flying off the bookstore shelves today. Our Kelly Wallace is in New York in mid-town, where fans are lining up to get their copies.
Now, is he still there, signing those copies now, Kelly?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is, Fredricka.
And his attorney, Bob Barnett, was telling us a short time ago that the bookstore gave out some 1,500 wristbands and that Bill Clinton is expected to sign every person's copy of a book.
He has been inside this bookstore for more than 90 minutes now. He was only supposed to be here an hour.
But this is, after all, a master politician who loves the art of campaigning and seems to be relishing this, his latest campaign, selling his book and polishing his legacy.
Earlier, when he got inside that bookstore, a reporter asked him a question. Here's what he had to say when the reporter asked if he accomplished what he wanted in his autobiography.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that's something only the readers can decide. But I tried to tell the story of my life and the story of America's life in the last half of the 20th Century, and then I tried to elevate the importance of politics.
Again, I tried to show people that these political jobs are deciding jobs and that people, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, we have different ideas. We have different policies, and the decisions we make have consequences for people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And a lot of excitement here in mid-town Manhattan when the former president arrived. Again, more than 90 minutes ago.
I've heard someone describe this as sort of the "Harry Potter" for adults. Certainly a little bit of Clinton-mania.
Because you have had hundreds and hundreds of people, definitely more than 1,000, lining up here in mid-town Manhattan, some waiting as many as 12 hours, hoping to get inside this bookstore to get an autograph from the former president. Some waiting, again, in the pouring rain.
We've been talking to people throughout the day. Why did they want to come? You have Clinton lovers here. Someone described him as the JFK of this generation.
You also have those who are just curious, wanting to see a former president. You even have his critics who wanted to check out the book and meet him. And of course some autograph seekers.
Again, as you said, Fredricka, he's already a best-selling author. Bob Barnett telling CNN that Bill Clinton currently occupies the No. 1 spot in three different places on Amazon: for his book, for his audio excerpts, and for the large print version for those visually impaired.
And from here he heads up to Harlem, near his office, for another book signing -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And so Kelly, you described the audience out there, those who are in line. Even among them some of his critics who simply want to make sure that they get a piece of history, as well, even though they may not necessarily agree with the man or his policies.
WALLACE: Exactly. You have had people said no, they're not excited about him, not really excited about the book, but they still wanted to see the book. They want to hear what he had to say and, you know, everybody gets excited about seeing a former president.
But his critics are looking to see what he has to say, and there's a lot of questioning going on about what impact this could have on the presidential campaign, because some of his critics are fired up, saying any talk about Bill Clinton's presidency will only help president George W. Bush -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yes. All right. Kelly Wallace in mid-town Manhattan. Thanks very much.
Well, it seems like a perfect time to gauge how the public feels about the former president. For that let's go to Princeton, New Jersey. Gallup editor in chief Frank Newport is crunching some new poll numbers for us today.
Hi, Frank.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP EDITOR IN CHIEF: Hello, Fredricka.
Indeed Kelly just said that some admirers are saying that Bill Clinton is this generation's JFK. Not so says the whole American public.
We asked Americans how will these presidents go down in history? And here's what they just told us about Bill Clinton. It's not too bad a report card. Nine percent say he'll be outstanding; 29 percent above average. You put those top two together, that's about 38 percent who say that he'll be above average.
Thirty percent say he'll be average. And there are the detractors at the bottom of the chart, 31 percent say below average or poor.
The reason I say that he's no JFK, when we asked the same question about John Kennedy in this recent poll, we had 78 percent, 79 percent, 77 percent, in that range, saying Kennedy will go down in history as above average.
So at least at this point Americans don't put Clinton in that same category as JFK.
Now, during his eight years in office never a dull moment. Look at the ratings here. It was 55 percent average altogether. But notice how, just to look back on it, Clinton did so poorly in his first few years.
Don't give up hope. Just like Ronald Reagan, his ratings went up midway through his term.
And then this is the interesting paradox, Fredricka, we're still puzzling over. His highest ratings, those peaks you see there right about 1999, that was just as he was being impeached. His single highest job approval rating came in December of 1998, just after the House vote.
And as I mentioned, we're still trying to figure out psychologically why the public gave him such high ratings at that particular point in time -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: All right, Frank. Let's talk about another politician who right now is in some hot water. Is there any fallout from the resignation of Connecticut Governor John Rowland right now?
NEWPORT: Well, unfortunately, there's not a lot of room for there to be fallout. He's a state governor, had to resign under pressure, looked like he could have been impeached.
We've asked Americans, "How do you rate the honesty and ethics of various professions?" Those at the top are nurses and clergy and doctors and so forth.
State governors, just at 26 percent when we did our annual round up a few months ago, quite low. Journalists at about that level, unfortunately for journalists. And members of Congress, even lower down at 17 percent.
So the bottom line here is the Rowland resignation in Connecticut probably isn't going to do a lot to the reputation of state governors, because it wasn't all that great from the get-go -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Gallup editor-in-chief, Frank Newport, thanks very much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Under the radar. The Senate votes whether to pressure the Pentagon to change its policy on photographing America's war dead. Senator Frank Lautenberg will join us live on this debate.
And we'll take you inside America's first urban public boarding school. That's right, boarding school.
And live pictures now from the New York Stock Exchange. There's the numbers for you. Dow is up 12.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Our top story has been the talk about the South Korean hostage that was kidnapped a week ago by Islamic extremists. As you know, we've reported that indeed today he was killed, and Secretary of State Colin Powell responded to that killing just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWELL: The tragedy that we see on our screens this afternoon indicating that the South Korean hostage in Iraq, Mr. Kim Sung-Il, was beheaded by the evil terrorists who kidnapped him.
He was an innocent man, there to help the people of Iraq, cut down by senseless barbarism. We condemn such acts of terrorism against civilians who are there to build a peaceful and democratic Iraq.
We offer our sympathy and condolences to his family, and we stand with the people of South Korea at this time. As the president said a few moments ago, these evildoers will not stop us from our work. I'm pleased that the South Korean government has been steadfast over the last several days and remains steadfast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Once again, Secretary of State Colin Powell responding to the death of the young South Korean that was killed by the extremists in Iraq.
Well, straight ahead, a flag-draped coffin bearing the remains of a soldier that fought for his or her life in the war against terror. Should that be a private moment, or should the media be able to cover that homecoming? We're going to talk about it right after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A flag-draped coffin bearing the remains of a soldier killed on the battlefield returns home from war. Is it a private moment or an image all of America should share as a reminder of the cost of war?
That debate was at the center of a Senate vote to uphold a Pentagon policy banning such coverage. The debate has grown especially heated during the Iraq war. The latest casualty update lists 848 American military personnel who have died there.
Joining us from Capitol Hill, Senator Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey. He was a key sponsor of the effort to restore coverage of homecoming ceremonies.
Sir, it's nice to have you.
SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: It's good to be here. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about why this is so close to you and why you feel that there should be media coverage as a soldier, a Marine, or a sailor comes home in a casket.
LAUTENBERG: Well, I served in the Army for three years, much of it during World War II in Europe, and saw people who died and realized what a sacrifice it was to those families who lost a son or a brother or a sister.
And here we are. It's as if we're trying to conceal the cost of war from families, from people across the country.
Sixty-two percent of the public in the polls said that that image should be able to be seen in either television or print to understand what the cost of war is.
And not to invade anybody's privacy. We were very circumspect about that.
And to deny that fallen hero a tribute from his country or her country to say here's someone who died in the service of their country, and we want them to know that this flag representing all of America is there to accompany him to his -- to his grave.
PHILLIPS: Sir, do you really think that Americans do not understand the costs of war when you see these beheadings that are taking place, when you see so many soldiers dying, when you hear the testimony from friends and family in the United States? Do you really think Americans do not understand the cost of war?
LAUTENBERG: Well, first of all, the beheadings, as horrible as they are, are typically civilians who were captured. So we see the cost of terrorism.
But the cost of war, when it's just a bunch of numbers, doesn't have the same impact as seeing a casket returned to the country, covered over with a flag.
I went to Walter Reed Hospital, and I saw a fellow blinded in battle. And he said, "You know, I'll never be able to see my daughter again, but I can hold her in my arms."
And I said, "My gosh, if America understood how severe these penalties are when they're put upon a person, then I think we'd make sure, A, that we gave our soldiers and sailors, et cetera, everything they needed to fight the battle, gave them full support, but also understand that we have to bring this to a conclusion as quickly as possible, even as we defend this."
I'm not saying cut and run at all. But I am saying that it's important that America realizes how much grief a family goes through when they lose someone.
PHILLIPS: Sir, for the sake of fairness Senator John Warner, of course, takes the opposite approach to what you are saying. Let's listen to what he had to say on the floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: We have decided with the vote on the Warner Amendment that we're going to leave it to the families to decide what they want to do when the bodies arrive at the final resting place.
That's been the policy since 1991 through the Gulf War and through the operations of our two conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. I urge that it remain that way and not open up, as the Lautenberg Amendment directs, the secretary of defense shall develop a protocol that permits the media to attend the bodies as they arrive in the United States.
I yield the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Senator, we've heard the debate. That's what's been out there. Is this an issue of censorship or privacy? Should it be up to the family members? Let me ask you a question.
LAUTENBERG: Well...
PHILLIPS: Well, let me real quickly, watching all the Reagan coverage, the funeral, the memorial services, I mean, days of these very intense services honoring Ronald Reagan.
I received a number of e-mails from soldiers overseas, just an interesting point I want you to respond to, saying, "Why can't we have that kind of attention when we lose a brother or a sister overseas?"
LAUTENBERG: Well, I think the real reason is that they -- the Pentagon and the administration want to cover up what is the -- a look at the costs of war, a look at the fact that these caskets are coming home with the remains of those who fought or who died in the pursuit of their duty.
But Ronald Reagan, president in 1983, stood and received the caskets of those who -- Marines who were killed in Lebanon. And we've had receipt of the -- those remains by President Clinton for those remains of soldiers who fought in Kosovo, in Afghanistan.
And the reason that it's not happening is it's part, in my view, to be perfectly crude about this, is kind of to not let the American public really understand what it's like.
When you see a flag-draped coffin, and you see the ceremony that the honor guard goes through in presenting the flag to the family, as I did last week at Arlington Cemetery, it brings you to the realization that a great American has fallen, and we should pay tribute to that American.
And in no way, in no way is it fair to say that this would invade the privacy of any family. If it's a picture of a number of these, and no names. There's no identification.
And if the family said, "Look, we don't even want our son's coffin to be photographed en masse," absolutely not. And we left it up to the family. The dignity of the family was the thing that we were concerned about, the privacy of the family. But it was distorted, I think, to win an argument, and I regret it.
My dear friend John Warner, who really is an excellent leader in the Armed Services Committee, he's sensitive to the issues. He's a vet like I am.
PHILLIPS: Well, as the debate continues I think all Americans are definitely sensitive to it. We will never forget the lives lost in this war. Senator Frank Lautenberg, thank you.
LAUTENBERG: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Let's take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
