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Supreme Court Decision Still Leaves Some Questions Unanswered

Aired June 28, 2004 - 13:37   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: John Kerry has long called on the Bush administration to share the responsibilities in Iraq. Today, handover day, Democratic presidential nominee in waiting said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today's newspapers are full of stories about how the president, the administration are trying to repair relationships with NATO and with allies, and obviously I hope that that repair job can be done as rapidly and as successfully as possible. On the day of the transition of sovereignty to the Iraqi people, I want to start by saying that our troops have conducted military operations with extraordinary courage and skill, and they've been doing a magnificent job under very, very difficult circumstances. We owe their -- them, all of them, and we owe their families a great debt of gratitude for their service and their sacrifice.

As we look forward today, there were very important challenges. So that we can finish our mission and get our troops home as rapidly as possible, we have to focus on the top level priority of providing adequate security.

It is absolutely stunning that of the $18 billion that we approved last year for the reconstruction of Iraq, only $400 million has been spent. Ninety percent of the coalition on the ground is American -- 90 percent, and 90 percent of the cost is being borne by the American people.

I believe it is critical that the president get real support, not resolutions, not words, but real support of sufficient personnel, troops and money to assist in the training of security forces in order to be able to guarantee a rapid real transition. Most importantly, in order to be able to provide adequate security on the ground. You must have security on the ground in order to be able to proceed forward with the reconstruction and the political transformation. It is vital to do the hard work and statesmanship and diplomacy necessary to get that. I hope the president will be successful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The Massachusetts senator did not share his views on Iraq, or anything else at the U.S. Conference of Mayors today in Boston. That's because Boston police are picketing over contract issues and Kerry refused to cross their lines.

Well a day in court, or at least a few minutes, isn't a luxury. It's a necessity even for so-called enemy combatants. As we reported, the Supreme Court today gave the Bush administration the power it sought to hold terror suspects, even U.S. citizens, without filing charges. But the suspects have been allowed now to see lawyers, or will be allowed, rather, to see lawyers and judges.

We get some insights now from CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, we've sot of tried to sort this out in a coherent manner.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I'm doing my best.

PHILLIPS: Exactly. Let's stick to the detainees at Gitmo. And talking about, with this decision now, does this now mean that the hundreds of detainees that are being held there can seek a lawyer and challenge what they're being charged with?

TOOBIN: That's absolutely what it means. What is not clear is in what forum and how that legal challenge will take place. But what is absolutely clear from the court's decision is that these 600 detainees in Guantanamo, even though they're not on the soil in the United States, and even though they are not American citizens, they have the right to get review from some sort of federal court and get a determination whether or not they are being held legally.

PHILLIPS: So how would you decide jurisdiction, and also, would you see these detainees showing up in court?

TOOBIN: Well, at the moment, it does seem like they have the right to go to an American court and get what's called -- and ask for a writ of habeas corpus which means an order allowing them to go free.

However, the administration, it appears, has the option of setting up some sort of tribunal, perhaps a military tribunal as they have talked about doing, that would take care of the review in Guantanamo and would be something less than a full-fledged American court hearing but adequate to satisfy the concerns of the Supreme Court.

But they deserve and they are now entitled to some kind of review whether it's in Guantanamo or in an American court. They can't simply be, as they've for the last two years, no lawyers, no proceedings, just sitting there.

PHILLIPS: OK, well let's go in-depth on that point. And let's we'll back to the article you wrote for "New Yorker" magazine where you interviewed the lawyer with the Air Force, the one that was going to be dealing with these military tribunals. OK. That was, what, a couple of months ago.

Now you have this Supreme Court decision that is saying, well, the detainees will be able to have lawyers and be able to have representation. So do you go back and deal with the military tribunal aspect, with the Air Force attorney? Or are you going to see the Johnny Cochrans and the Mark Geragos, you know, coming saying, hey, detainees, I'll represent you. Let's go. TOOBIN: You might actually have some mixture of both because one of the interesting things about going to Guantanamo, being there, is you could see a little bit of how the administration lost its argument because the administrations argument was, look, these people are in a foreign country, it's like being on a battlefield. You can't have the American legal system with lawyers and everything that involves in such an uncertain environment.

But if you actually go to Guantanamo, and you're looking at pictures of it right now, that's Camp Delta, it is the most secure, it is the most American-controlled place I have ever been in. Even more than the soil of the United States because in the United States, you could have protesters. You can't have protesters in Guantanamo. It is completely under the control of the military.

And given that, the court said, you know, you have enough control to be able to have orderly legal proceedings. So it may be lawyers like Will Gunn, who was the Air Force lawyer I wrote about in "The New Yorker," he may be the defense lawyer, and his colleagues, for these people. Or it may be Johnny Cochrans and Mark Geragoses.

But somebody is going to be defending these people, and they are going to get a day in court, one kind of court or another.

PHILLIPS: We know Will Gunn had access to Gitmo. But would the Johnny Cochrans and the Mark Geragos and those types be allowed to show up to Gitmo, knock on the door and, hey, can I sit down with my client and chit chat?

TOOBIN: Very interesting question, Kyra. That is one of the many issues that's going to have to be resolved here. The American government understandably is very concerned about security at Gitmo. They don't allow civilians. They certainly didn't allow me or any other journalist access to the prisoners.

These prisoners now have the right to a lawyer. What kind of lawyer? Do they have the right to a civilian lawyer? Not settled.

It seems to me, based on how the government has pursued this, they are likely to set procedures that they hope will satisfy the Supreme Court, but will be something less than the trial of the century and Johnny Cochran and company.

PHILLIPS: Very good. All right, you're going to come back in the 2:00 hour. And this time we're going to talk Saddam Hussein and...

TOOBIN: A whole other set of problems.

PHILLIPS: There we go. And that will be your third article for "The New Yorker" coming up in the next month. We're going to keep you busy. Jeffrey, thanks so much.

As you heard, straight from the horse's mouth, he will come back in the second hour of LIVE FROM... with a look at the Iraqi who may never have sovereignty again. The Saddam custody question is on the table in just about 20 minutes right here on CNN.

A healthier economy and newly competent employees. It almost feels like old times.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kyra. As the economy heats up many workers are seeing themselves as hot commodities. I'll have that story right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An American Marine is missing in Iraq. The Arabic news network Al-Jazeera has been showing pictures that identifies as Corporal Wassef Hassoun who's not been seen since June 19. Iraqi insurgents claim to hold the service man and they vow to kill him unless the U.S. releases Iraqi prisoners.

Now back home in West Jordan, Utah, the Marine's family is asking others to pray for his safe return. More now from Rich Piatt out of our affiliate KSL in Salt Lake City.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICH PIATT, KSL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is disbelief, shock, frustration and outright fear for relatives of U.S. Marine Wassef Ali Hassoun. A family spokesperson issuing this statement tonight.

TAREK NOSSEIR, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: In the name of Allah, the merciful, the compassionate, we accept destiny with its good and its bad.

We pray and we plead for his safe release. And we ask all people of the world to join us in our prayers. May God bless us all.

PIATT: The family is understandably upset. Aside from reporters hanging out at their west Jordan home, reportedly belonging to Hassoun's brother, their initial information about this incident came from television reports.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They originally heard it from the media, which is unfortunate.

PIATT: This frightening image from Al-Jazeera Television confirmed their worst fears Sunday afternoon. Hassoun is now hostage of an Islamic militant group called the "Islamic Response Movement," captured outside a Marine camp outside Iraq. The captors demand all Iraqi prisoners released, threaten to behead Hassoun otherwise.

There is a very real concern the fate of two other American hostages could befall this Utah family. But in this quiet neighborhood, that harsh reality is only starting to sink in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen this happen a couple times already before, and it's just very tragic thing that has to happen at all. And to see it happen to someone that you live so close to is just really unnerving. PIATT: Richard Piatt, Eyewitness News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Well, a bandit, a prankster, a patriot, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). An Iowa family didn't know when they were dealing with when the yellow ribbons they tied around a tree in support of their son in Iraq started disappearing.

WQAD's Chris Minor wraps up the mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS MINOR, WQAD REPORTER (voice-over): While Bob and Alexis Saskowski anxiously awaited for their son's safe return from the war in Iraq, they found comfort in decorating their trees with yellow ribbons in support of the troops. But earlier this year...

BOB SASKOWSKI, RIBBON THIEF VICTIM: The ribbons started to disappear. And every time it disappeared, I would hang a new one up.

MINOR: It went on for eight months. The last straw, three stolen ribbons in three days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would do something like that? I mean, who is just so unpatriotic that they would go out of their way to rip off a yellow ribbon.

MINOR: At their wits' end, the couple set up a video camera.

B. SASKOWSKI: I was going to try and catch the culprit.

MINOR: Six long weeks went by. The video camera focused on the backyard.

B. SASKOWSKI: And one Saturday afternoon, I walked in, I looked at the monitor, the ribbon was missing, and I said, gotcha!

MINOR: The sneaky thief caught on tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were thinking it was some kids playing a prank.

B. SASKOWSKI: I caught him. And it was a squirrel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A squirrel, a rodent. A tree rodent is doing this.

MINOR: Yes, it's no teenage prankster, but a wily rodent causing all the grief. It's tough to see them at first, but take a look at the tree on the left. There's no denying the ribbon being shimmied slowly down the tree trunk. And once at the base, the squirrel cuts the ribbon, presumably with his teeth and takes off, scampering with the yellow ribbon in tow toward his den of thieves. Another score. (on camera): The couple then discovered that the squirrelly bandit was swiping the yellow ribbons and stashing them up in his nest in this tree in their backyard.

B. SASKOWSKI: We can laugh now. Before it was not funny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first feeling that we got was relief, knowing that it wasn't someone within our own neighborhood.

MINOR (voice-over): With the usual suspects cleared, the Saskowskis say the squirrel actually was a good thing.

B. SASKOWSKI: And I named him "The Patriot," because he brought our neighborhood together.

MINOR: Once a bandit, now a patriot, only in America. The best part is, though, the yellow ribbons worked. The Saskowski's son is home.

Chris Minor, News Channel 8.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM, now that Iraq is back in the hands of Iraqis, what happens to Saddam Hussein. Jeffrey Toobin on the Saddam custody question, in the house next hour on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: They're now in charge. Iraq in the hands of Iraqis two days ahead of schedule. What will this mean for America's future role there?

Saddam Hussein's future, now today's developments might affect his handover from American to Iraqi justice.

Sweet sorrow, the American man once in charge of Iraq says, goodbye, his mission accomplished.

America's war on terror: a Supreme Court ruling on legal rights for detainees (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at Gitmo.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 28, 2004 - 13:37   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: John Kerry has long called on the Bush administration to share the responsibilities in Iraq. Today, handover day, Democratic presidential nominee in waiting said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today's newspapers are full of stories about how the president, the administration are trying to repair relationships with NATO and with allies, and obviously I hope that that repair job can be done as rapidly and as successfully as possible. On the day of the transition of sovereignty to the Iraqi people, I want to start by saying that our troops have conducted military operations with extraordinary courage and skill, and they've been doing a magnificent job under very, very difficult circumstances. We owe their -- them, all of them, and we owe their families a great debt of gratitude for their service and their sacrifice.

As we look forward today, there were very important challenges. So that we can finish our mission and get our troops home as rapidly as possible, we have to focus on the top level priority of providing adequate security.

It is absolutely stunning that of the $18 billion that we approved last year for the reconstruction of Iraq, only $400 million has been spent. Ninety percent of the coalition on the ground is American -- 90 percent, and 90 percent of the cost is being borne by the American people.

I believe it is critical that the president get real support, not resolutions, not words, but real support of sufficient personnel, troops and money to assist in the training of security forces in order to be able to guarantee a rapid real transition. Most importantly, in order to be able to provide adequate security on the ground. You must have security on the ground in order to be able to proceed forward with the reconstruction and the political transformation. It is vital to do the hard work and statesmanship and diplomacy necessary to get that. I hope the president will be successful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The Massachusetts senator did not share his views on Iraq, or anything else at the U.S. Conference of Mayors today in Boston. That's because Boston police are picketing over contract issues and Kerry refused to cross their lines.

Well a day in court, or at least a few minutes, isn't a luxury. It's a necessity even for so-called enemy combatants. As we reported, the Supreme Court today gave the Bush administration the power it sought to hold terror suspects, even U.S. citizens, without filing charges. But the suspects have been allowed now to see lawyers, or will be allowed, rather, to see lawyers and judges.

We get some insights now from CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, we've sot of tried to sort this out in a coherent manner.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I'm doing my best.

PHILLIPS: Exactly. Let's stick to the detainees at Gitmo. And talking about, with this decision now, does this now mean that the hundreds of detainees that are being held there can seek a lawyer and challenge what they're being charged with?

TOOBIN: That's absolutely what it means. What is not clear is in what forum and how that legal challenge will take place. But what is absolutely clear from the court's decision is that these 600 detainees in Guantanamo, even though they're not on the soil in the United States, and even though they are not American citizens, they have the right to get review from some sort of federal court and get a determination whether or not they are being held legally.

PHILLIPS: So how would you decide jurisdiction, and also, would you see these detainees showing up in court?

TOOBIN: Well, at the moment, it does seem like they have the right to go to an American court and get what's called -- and ask for a writ of habeas corpus which means an order allowing them to go free.

However, the administration, it appears, has the option of setting up some sort of tribunal, perhaps a military tribunal as they have talked about doing, that would take care of the review in Guantanamo and would be something less than a full-fledged American court hearing but adequate to satisfy the concerns of the Supreme Court.

But they deserve and they are now entitled to some kind of review whether it's in Guantanamo or in an American court. They can't simply be, as they've for the last two years, no lawyers, no proceedings, just sitting there.

PHILLIPS: OK, well let's go in-depth on that point. And let's we'll back to the article you wrote for "New Yorker" magazine where you interviewed the lawyer with the Air Force, the one that was going to be dealing with these military tribunals. OK. That was, what, a couple of months ago.

Now you have this Supreme Court decision that is saying, well, the detainees will be able to have lawyers and be able to have representation. So do you go back and deal with the military tribunal aspect, with the Air Force attorney? Or are you going to see the Johnny Cochrans and the Mark Geragos, you know, coming saying, hey, detainees, I'll represent you. Let's go. TOOBIN: You might actually have some mixture of both because one of the interesting things about going to Guantanamo, being there, is you could see a little bit of how the administration lost its argument because the administrations argument was, look, these people are in a foreign country, it's like being on a battlefield. You can't have the American legal system with lawyers and everything that involves in such an uncertain environment.

But if you actually go to Guantanamo, and you're looking at pictures of it right now, that's Camp Delta, it is the most secure, it is the most American-controlled place I have ever been in. Even more than the soil of the United States because in the United States, you could have protesters. You can't have protesters in Guantanamo. It is completely under the control of the military.

And given that, the court said, you know, you have enough control to be able to have orderly legal proceedings. So it may be lawyers like Will Gunn, who was the Air Force lawyer I wrote about in "The New Yorker," he may be the defense lawyer, and his colleagues, for these people. Or it may be Johnny Cochrans and Mark Geragoses.

But somebody is going to be defending these people, and they are going to get a day in court, one kind of court or another.

PHILLIPS: We know Will Gunn had access to Gitmo. But would the Johnny Cochrans and the Mark Geragos and those types be allowed to show up to Gitmo, knock on the door and, hey, can I sit down with my client and chit chat?

TOOBIN: Very interesting question, Kyra. That is one of the many issues that's going to have to be resolved here. The American government understandably is very concerned about security at Gitmo. They don't allow civilians. They certainly didn't allow me or any other journalist access to the prisoners.

These prisoners now have the right to a lawyer. What kind of lawyer? Do they have the right to a civilian lawyer? Not settled.

It seems to me, based on how the government has pursued this, they are likely to set procedures that they hope will satisfy the Supreme Court, but will be something less than the trial of the century and Johnny Cochran and company.

PHILLIPS: Very good. All right, you're going to come back in the 2:00 hour. And this time we're going to talk Saddam Hussein and...

TOOBIN: A whole other set of problems.

PHILLIPS: There we go. And that will be your third article for "The New Yorker" coming up in the next month. We're going to keep you busy. Jeffrey, thanks so much.

As you heard, straight from the horse's mouth, he will come back in the second hour of LIVE FROM... with a look at the Iraqi who may never have sovereignty again. The Saddam custody question is on the table in just about 20 minutes right here on CNN.

A healthier economy and newly competent employees. It almost feels like old times.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kyra. As the economy heats up many workers are seeing themselves as hot commodities. I'll have that story right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An American Marine is missing in Iraq. The Arabic news network Al-Jazeera has been showing pictures that identifies as Corporal Wassef Hassoun who's not been seen since June 19. Iraqi insurgents claim to hold the service man and they vow to kill him unless the U.S. releases Iraqi prisoners.

Now back home in West Jordan, Utah, the Marine's family is asking others to pray for his safe return. More now from Rich Piatt out of our affiliate KSL in Salt Lake City.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICH PIATT, KSL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is disbelief, shock, frustration and outright fear for relatives of U.S. Marine Wassef Ali Hassoun. A family spokesperson issuing this statement tonight.

TAREK NOSSEIR, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: In the name of Allah, the merciful, the compassionate, we accept destiny with its good and its bad.

We pray and we plead for his safe release. And we ask all people of the world to join us in our prayers. May God bless us all.

PIATT: The family is understandably upset. Aside from reporters hanging out at their west Jordan home, reportedly belonging to Hassoun's brother, their initial information about this incident came from television reports.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They originally heard it from the media, which is unfortunate.

PIATT: This frightening image from Al-Jazeera Television confirmed their worst fears Sunday afternoon. Hassoun is now hostage of an Islamic militant group called the "Islamic Response Movement," captured outside a Marine camp outside Iraq. The captors demand all Iraqi prisoners released, threaten to behead Hassoun otherwise.

There is a very real concern the fate of two other American hostages could befall this Utah family. But in this quiet neighborhood, that harsh reality is only starting to sink in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen this happen a couple times already before, and it's just very tragic thing that has to happen at all. And to see it happen to someone that you live so close to is just really unnerving. PIATT: Richard Piatt, Eyewitness News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Well, a bandit, a prankster, a patriot, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). An Iowa family didn't know when they were dealing with when the yellow ribbons they tied around a tree in support of their son in Iraq started disappearing.

WQAD's Chris Minor wraps up the mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS MINOR, WQAD REPORTER (voice-over): While Bob and Alexis Saskowski anxiously awaited for their son's safe return from the war in Iraq, they found comfort in decorating their trees with yellow ribbons in support of the troops. But earlier this year...

BOB SASKOWSKI, RIBBON THIEF VICTIM: The ribbons started to disappear. And every time it disappeared, I would hang a new one up.

MINOR: It went on for eight months. The last straw, three stolen ribbons in three days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would do something like that? I mean, who is just so unpatriotic that they would go out of their way to rip off a yellow ribbon.

MINOR: At their wits' end, the couple set up a video camera.

B. SASKOWSKI: I was going to try and catch the culprit.

MINOR: Six long weeks went by. The video camera focused on the backyard.

B. SASKOWSKI: And one Saturday afternoon, I walked in, I looked at the monitor, the ribbon was missing, and I said, gotcha!

MINOR: The sneaky thief caught on tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were thinking it was some kids playing a prank.

B. SASKOWSKI: I caught him. And it was a squirrel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A squirrel, a rodent. A tree rodent is doing this.

MINOR: Yes, it's no teenage prankster, but a wily rodent causing all the grief. It's tough to see them at first, but take a look at the tree on the left. There's no denying the ribbon being shimmied slowly down the tree trunk. And once at the base, the squirrel cuts the ribbon, presumably with his teeth and takes off, scampering with the yellow ribbon in tow toward his den of thieves. Another score. (on camera): The couple then discovered that the squirrelly bandit was swiping the yellow ribbons and stashing them up in his nest in this tree in their backyard.

B. SASKOWSKI: We can laugh now. Before it was not funny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first feeling that we got was relief, knowing that it wasn't someone within our own neighborhood.

MINOR (voice-over): With the usual suspects cleared, the Saskowskis say the squirrel actually was a good thing.

B. SASKOWSKI: And I named him "The Patriot," because he brought our neighborhood together.

MINOR: Once a bandit, now a patriot, only in America. The best part is, though, the yellow ribbons worked. The Saskowski's son is home.

Chris Minor, News Channel 8.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM, now that Iraq is back in the hands of Iraqis, what happens to Saddam Hussein. Jeffrey Toobin on the Saddam custody question, in the house next hour on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: They're now in charge. Iraq in the hands of Iraqis two days ahead of schedule. What will this mean for America's future role there?

Saddam Hussein's future, now today's developments might affect his handover from American to Iraqi justice.

Sweet sorrow, the American man once in charge of Iraq says, goodbye, his mission accomplished.

America's war on terror: a Supreme Court ruling on legal rights for detainees (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at Gitmo.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is on assignment. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com