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Senate Report on Prewar Iraq Intelligence

Aired July 09, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Today's Senate report on prewar Iraq intelligence is being described as scathing and harshly critical. President Bush calling it useful. Let's get a little more on the administration's take on those conclusions.
Joining us now on the White House lawn is communication's director Dan Bartlett.

Mr. Bartlett, good to have you with you.

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMM. DIR.: Great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Reading the report, it is a stunning thing to see it in print there, and I wonder if the buck stopped -- where the buck stops. Does it stop at the White House, or does it stop at the CIA in this case?

BARTLETT: Well, Miles, just as the president said, as commander in chief, he, more than anybody else, wants to make sure he has all the information, the best information possible, in order to make such critical decisions in the war on terror. That's why he created his own commission. He believes the work by the Senate Intelligence Committee can be very helpful in making sure that we're doing everything we can, from intelligence-gathering standpoint, to find out the problems and fix them so we can do a better job. And these findings, we believe, will help be constructive in that regard.

The CIA, we must say, is doing everything it can to protect America. It is doing everything it can to give the best information possible. But if there is systemic problems, or other issues that can be fixed, President Bush wants to know about it, this Congress wants to know about it, because we all use the same intelligence to make the decisions we did. President Bush might use that information, the Congress used that information, including Senator Rockefeller, United Nations Security Council used that information, that the United States had, as well as other countries had. So it's important all of us get it right. It's not a matter of pointing fingers, but it's a matter of getting it right so we don't do it again.

O'BRIEN: But the finger has been pointed at the CIA. Is that really where the problem stops? We're talking about a $40 billion security apparatus that involves 15 separate agencies, 100,000 people. It's really scandalous that the amount of money we spend, the amount of intelligence that is in place, couldn't give us the straight story.

BARTLETT: Well, I think that's one thing that's going to be looked at, is there are various agencies that have intelligence- gathering capabilities. And the question may be, are they effectively knitting up, are they coordinating with each other and doing the job to get the best information? We can't ignore some of the successes that the CIA has had as well. Their intelligence on North Korea has been great. Their intelligence on breaking up the A.Q. Khan network, which was proliferating nuclear materials throughout the world. The situation in Libya, for example.

So there have been some key successes by the CIA as well that we should not ignore during this. But, everybody, most importantly, the president, wants to make sure that we know the full story, so we know exactly what we can prevent from happening in the future.

But I must say, Miles, I think it's a very important point to make, that in this report, yes, it confirms that we have not found stockpiles of weapons. We all know that. But also the work of David Kay and other people in Iraq have determined that Saddam Hussein had the capabilities to produce weapons of mass destruction on a very short basis. He was a sworn enemy of the United States of America. He did have ties to terrorist organizations.

In President Bush's judgment, in a post-9/11 world, is we can't take the risk that Saddam Hussein, who is that enemy of our country, will not give that capability or that information to terrorists who could use it against us. So it was the right decision to make, and he stands by it today.

O'BRIEN: But the report is very clear, saying that there are no demonstrated al Qaeda links between Saddam Hussein and...

BARTLETT: That's not true. I've read the report, and it said that the contacts were there, there was communications. We never suggested there was operational control on 9/11, or the plot or else -- we said that they were given refuge to terrorist organization, including al Qaeda members. That much is true. The report does not refute that. It did say that there were contacts between them, and that it was reasonable for the CIA to conclude that in the NIE.

So there are some important findings in there, that I think give a clearer picture than what we heard maybe from some of the people on Capitol Hill.

O'BRIEN: Final thought here -- can you say categorically that this is all a matter of how the intelligence was gathered and presented to the administration, and not a matter of the administration seeking out an answer in the midst of all that intelligence?

BARTLETT: That's a very important question. And I think you can analyze the administration's public statements, including the president, and his statements were very similar to the statements made by members of Congress on the floor of the Senate and the House, particularly Senator Rockefeller, somebody who has been -- has used this opportunity today to cast blame and point fingers at the administration, when, in fact, when he cast his vote, he was saying some of the very same things we were saying, that he had weapons, he was reconstituting his nuclear weapon, and that we couldn't afford to leave these type of capabilities in the hands of Saddam Hussein. So we were all using the same information. Now it's important that we stop pointing fingers, and we get to the bottom of the facts, to make sure we don't do this again.

But the final decision, the final analysis by the president, it was the right thing to do to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

O'BRIEN: Dan Bartlett at the White House, head of communications there. Thanks for your time, appreciate it.

BARTLETT: Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's take a trip down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, Dianne Feinstein reacting to that report right now. Let's listen for a bit.

SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Now, one of the major reasons why the prewar intelligence was both bad and wrong, I believe, is actually a structural and functional failure within the intelligence community. Let me quote the report.

"There was a combination of systemic weaknesses, primarily in analytic tradecraft, compounded by a lack of information sharing, poor management, and inadequate intelligence collection," end quote.

I think the committee's report proves beyond all doubt that the present arrangement of collection and analysis between agencies and departments must change. The functional flaws in the intelligence community include the absence of any or adequate red teaming, which is really peer review, a procedure to reconcile differing departmental and analytical views.

There were real problems in the process used to connect the dots. By this I mean that analysts were not provided adequate information about the nature of the human sources to be able to fully access their credibility.

The committee's report does not acknowledge that the intelligence estimates were shaped by the administration. In my view, this remains an open question and needs more scrutiny.

But I will say this: Unless administration officials from the president on down had information not made available to the Senate Intelligence Committee, there was clearly an exaggeration of either an imminent or a grave and growing threat to the American people.

What's become really clear to me is that this great intelligence community set up after World War II, designed really to deal with state-to-state intelligence is not structured properly to deal in a day of nonstate, asymmetric terror, which is where our intelligence needs to go today.

It was mentioned this morning that the Department of Defense controls 80 percent of the budget and the secretary of DOD controls a majority of the departments. It is clear that any director has to have what, we call here, statutory and budgetary authority over all of the agencies if you're going to set the priorities, determine the strategies, make the choices and avoid spending huge amounts of money for naught.

So I'm very pleased to be joined by Senator Wyden, Senator Rockefeller, Senator Graham, Senator Lott, Senator Snowe and Senator Mikulski in a bill

O'BRIEN: We have been listening to Senator Diane Feinstein, Democrat, of California, member of the Intelligence Committee, talking about this scathing report that we've been telling you all about today. Interesting point she made there about the security intelligence apparatus in this country, a bit of a Cold War relic. Lots of talk about changing it. Not an easy thing to do. But we will be keeping you posted on that -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Other news across America now, begins with a court appearance for Cody Posey, the 14-year-old who's facing murder charges for the deaths of his father, mother and stepsister. Their bodies were found in a shallow grave at newsman Sam Donaldson's New Mexico ranch.

Wet weather in Arizona may be a blessing for firefighters. Expected rainfall is making fire crews them optimistic that they can protect a multimillion-dollar observatory and some 100 nearby cabins from two wildfires. Both blazes have charred almost 2,600 acres, and 35 percent contained.

On a much lighter note, Geraldine Williams never has to mop another floor again for as long as she lives. The 68-year-old retired cleaning lady won the $294 million Mega Millions jackpot. It's the highest Mega Millions prize in the history of the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALDINE WILLIAMS, MEGA MILLIONS WINNER: I don't know what it is to have money, so I don't know what I'd change. I hope I stay the same.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: You deserve it, Geraldine. Don't change.

Accusations of outrageous misconduct in the Michael Jackson case, not against the pop star, but the prosecution. The defense wants information that was seized from an investigator to be kept out of court.

Our Ted Rowlands is live from Santa Maria, California with more.

Hi, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

No decision was made here by the judge. The judge did grant a defense request to continue a scheduled hearing today on that exact subject.

But what was done today in court was that they set up a confrontation between Michael Jackson's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, and Thomas Sneddon, the D.A. here, which you alluded to earlier, is now being accused by the defense of misconduct by prosecutors.

Basically, what the defense is arguing here is that a search warrant served on a private investigator's home in Beverly -- or office in Beverly Hills was unwarranted. That investigator, Brad Miller, was working under Mark Geragos at the time of the search warrant. Geragos, of course, is Jackson's former attorney.

What the defense is alleging is that the D.A. in this case, Thomas Sneddon, knew full well Miller's role in this case and should not have been able to search that work spot and all of the evidence gathered from there could not and should not be brought in to trial.

Today, the judge delayed a ruling on this. They're going to have a hearing in late July.

But Sneddon has been subpoenaed in this case and will take the stand to defend what he says he knew at the time. In fact, today, he jumped up in court and said, "I'm ready to take the stand right now, Your Honor." "Bring it on," basically.

There were a couple moments today where you could really feel the tension between the two sides in this case.

Michael Jackson was not in court today and the judge did rule today that he does not have to appear in any of these hearings leading up to the start of his trial. That, of course, alleviates a lot of problems for the Santa Maria courthouse.

When Jackson is not here, it is relatively calm. When he is here, it is a logistical nightmare just getting him in and out of court.

The next appearance for both sides will be July 27th. And at that time, all of these issues are scheduled to be dealt with -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ted Rowlands live from Santa Maria, California. Thanks, Ted -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, you probably yelled at her -- not talking about Kyra, we're talking about another woman. Some people even shout unpleasant phrases at her. But don't let her upset you. She's a real person and she has feelings, too, gosh darn it.

But first, we know where he is now, but we don't know much more than that. The latest chapter in the odd case of Corporal Wassef Hassoun.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: This is just coming in to CNN right now. We don't have a lot of information on this. But our camera, which is up pretty much constantly at our location there in the heart of Baghdad, inside the so-called Green Zone, that fortified area where U.S. military headquarters is, as well as many of the media outlets.

As you can see -- although it's silent, there was a series of explosions that were recorded by that camera. We believe it was mortar rounds. Beyond that we don't have much to offer you except to tell you we don't believe there are any injuries.

Nevertheless, we're watching it pretty closely and we'll keep you posted -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Captured, deserted, all made up? The mystery of a Marine continues. Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun will face questioning about this purported kidnapping when he arrives at the U.S. base in Germany. How will the military's legal system handle this case?

CNN military analyst Don Shepperd live from Tucson, Arizona.

You and I have been talking about this a while, General. What do you think, AWOL?

GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Kyra, I hate to make a -- you know, a judgment and try the man on TV before he's had a hearing, an investigation, and then perhaps even a court-martial trial, but this has been bizarre from the very start.

First of all, he was missing, but not reported missing by the military. Then the next thing we saw was him blind-folded, looking good, not beat up like other hostages we've seen. And now, of course, we see him at the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon.

This is bizarre from the very beginning and certainly something mysterious.

PHILLIPS: Well, you look at this picture, allegedly, where extremists are behind him with the sword. What leads you to believe that possibly it could be fake? Is it because we don't see any other faces, we don't see any other human beings?

And I'm also curious to know what the Arabic says behind his head also.

SHEPPERD: Yes, I can't tell you what the Arabic says.

But what I see in this picture is, first of all, again, he's not beat up. His blindfold -- it looks like a bandage as opposed to any kind of blindfold that we've seen before. His mustache is well trimmed, his hair is well trimmed, his uniform is starched. And we don't see the groups of people that we have seen before.

Also reported that people taking credit for this were a group called the Islamic Response that we've not heard from before.

So, you know, it just looked very fishy from the very, very beginning. PHILLIPS: So how is that interrogation going to go down with him now?

SHEPPERD: The first thing that will happen is he'll be interviewed. And after the interview, they will determine if they want to do a formal Title 32 investigation where he will be able to be represented by counsel. And then based upon that investigation, it could go to a court-martial, which of course is a military trial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

There, the charges would likely be against him -- if it goes to a court-martial, would be absent without leave or desertion. Desertion can even carry the death penalty in a time of war, although that's highly unlikely.

On the other hand, AWOL, those type of lesser charges you can end up with things like reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay, and even time in jail.

PHILLIPS: Now, it's interesting when you say death penalty for desertion, when was the last time that happened, World War II?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I think World War II is probably the last time it happened. I don't remember it happening since then.

Of note is there are ways, if you are traumatized during combat, feel like you can't carry on, there is ways to stay within the system. You can go to your commander, you can go to your doctor and say, "I can't do this anymore," and you'll likely be removed from combat duty, perhaps discharged from the military, taken off flying status, whatever, because you're a danger to yourself and not of any value to your unit there.

So there are ways to stay within the system and do it. But when you go outside of the system, you're not allowed in the military, especially during war, to just walk off the job and say, "I don't want to be here anymore."

PHILLIPS: General, I've got a couple more questions for you.

But I just want to let our viewers know I'm just getting word now that that aircraft has landed at the U.S. base in Germany, the aircraft bringing in Corporal Hassoun. Word now that he has arrived at the air base there in Germany.

So we're trying to get our Chris Burns via telephone. We'll do that as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, let's continue our discussion.

I'm curious, is there any way that a soldier, sailor, Marine, can leave during combat, number one? And if yes, is there a way to do it in an honorable way?

SHEPPERD: There is a way to do it in an honorable way. And again, as we said, you go to your commander. He will refer you to the medics. The medics will determine whether or not you are medically or psychologically capable of continuing.

I've seen people do this in combat. Normally what you do, you take them out of the unit, you dismiss them from the military, you give them a discharge. That's the honorable way to do it within a system.

You can't just walk off the job.

The good news is, for all of us, is this man is safe, not faced some of the things that have happened to other hostages.

PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd.

We're going to ask you just to hold on for a second, General, and go to now Chris Burns on the phone.

We are just getting word now that the aircraft has landed at the U.S. base in Germany with Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun.

Chris, what do you know? Can you see the aircraft?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, we're just a few yards away from it.

No exact word on whether he is on the plane or whether he's walked off. It's not very clear. We're standing by right now.

But the plane has arrived just a few minutes ago and they escorted us to the plane just after it landed. So it's not exactly clear if he's on the plane or off the plane. But this is the one -- it's a C-17 that made about a 4 1/2-hour trip from Lebanon. And he will be examined at nearby Landstuhl, the regional medical center, military hospital where he will be checked. He will be given a medical check. And also going through debriefing and possibly psychological counseling as well as all former captives or hostages have gone through.

PHILLIPS: All right, so, Chris, he goes through the examination, gets the debrief. When exactly, though, will the hard core interview take place and those direct questions will be asked with regard to what happened? What's your story?

BURNS: Well, absolutely. A lot of explaining to do. And we're not exactly sure how much of that explaining will go on here. But they do do that at Landstuhl. There are people who are counselors, who are part of these counseling teams.

But as far as the actual investigation by the Navy Criminal Investigative Service, that is not clear. We're trying to find out more information on that.

PHILLIPS: Chris, do you know when he'll be coming back to the U.S.?

BURNS: Officials are telling us he should be here two or three days. So he could be leaving they say Monday or Tuesday. Landstuhl Medical Center is a sprawling hospital, has a lot of different kinds of high-tech care that they can check him for.

And this kind of debrief -- actually, we were here about a month and a half ago when the other former -- the former hostage Thomas Hamill was here, the one who was shot in the hand. He was a truck driver in Iraq. He went through several days of counseling, as well as medical treatment.

So that kind of counseling is very, very, very complicated. It takes many, many days. It's both counseling and debrief -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Chris Burns, live from Germany there. Thanks so much.

Let's back to military analyst General Don Shepperd. General, now that you've heard that information, and he goes through this examination, also this debrief, how -- at what -- could he go back to the states within two or three days? And the how quickly would a court-martial take place if, indeed that was going to happen?

And also, what if this examination shows that he's got some serious psychological problems? How could that change the dynamic?

SHEPPERD: The first thing you want to do is take care of the psychological and medical problems, Kyra, of the individual, of concern to him. That will be done. And then the investigation will start.

The investigation, depending on what is said, what's unfolded in this thing, could take several weeks, as a matter of fact. You're a long way away from any type of court-martial, if indeed that's the decision.

The big question is obviously is, OK you said you were kidnapped and held hostage. How did you get from your unit in Iraq, across Western Iraq, across Syria, and to your family in Lebanon, and then show up at the U.S. embassy? Those are going to be the key questions a lot of blanks to be filled in.

PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd. Thank you. We'll continue to follow this story obviously throughout the day.

More LIVE FROM... right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM..., it's her first day on the job. But the question is can she help her dad keep his job? Jenna Bush stumps with President Bush today. What will her presence add to the Bush/Cheney reelection campaign? We'll see. LIVE FROM...'s hour of power begins right after this.

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Aired July 9, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Today's Senate report on prewar Iraq intelligence is being described as scathing and harshly critical. President Bush calling it useful. Let's get a little more on the administration's take on those conclusions.
Joining us now on the White House lawn is communication's director Dan Bartlett.

Mr. Bartlett, good to have you with you.

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMM. DIR.: Great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Reading the report, it is a stunning thing to see it in print there, and I wonder if the buck stopped -- where the buck stops. Does it stop at the White House, or does it stop at the CIA in this case?

BARTLETT: Well, Miles, just as the president said, as commander in chief, he, more than anybody else, wants to make sure he has all the information, the best information possible, in order to make such critical decisions in the war on terror. That's why he created his own commission. He believes the work by the Senate Intelligence Committee can be very helpful in making sure that we're doing everything we can, from intelligence-gathering standpoint, to find out the problems and fix them so we can do a better job. And these findings, we believe, will help be constructive in that regard.

The CIA, we must say, is doing everything it can to protect America. It is doing everything it can to give the best information possible. But if there is systemic problems, or other issues that can be fixed, President Bush wants to know about it, this Congress wants to know about it, because we all use the same intelligence to make the decisions we did. President Bush might use that information, the Congress used that information, including Senator Rockefeller, United Nations Security Council used that information, that the United States had, as well as other countries had. So it's important all of us get it right. It's not a matter of pointing fingers, but it's a matter of getting it right so we don't do it again.

O'BRIEN: But the finger has been pointed at the CIA. Is that really where the problem stops? We're talking about a $40 billion security apparatus that involves 15 separate agencies, 100,000 people. It's really scandalous that the amount of money we spend, the amount of intelligence that is in place, couldn't give us the straight story.

BARTLETT: Well, I think that's one thing that's going to be looked at, is there are various agencies that have intelligence- gathering capabilities. And the question may be, are they effectively knitting up, are they coordinating with each other and doing the job to get the best information? We can't ignore some of the successes that the CIA has had as well. Their intelligence on North Korea has been great. Their intelligence on breaking up the A.Q. Khan network, which was proliferating nuclear materials throughout the world. The situation in Libya, for example.

So there have been some key successes by the CIA as well that we should not ignore during this. But, everybody, most importantly, the president, wants to make sure that we know the full story, so we know exactly what we can prevent from happening in the future.

But I must say, Miles, I think it's a very important point to make, that in this report, yes, it confirms that we have not found stockpiles of weapons. We all know that. But also the work of David Kay and other people in Iraq have determined that Saddam Hussein had the capabilities to produce weapons of mass destruction on a very short basis. He was a sworn enemy of the United States of America. He did have ties to terrorist organizations.

In President Bush's judgment, in a post-9/11 world, is we can't take the risk that Saddam Hussein, who is that enemy of our country, will not give that capability or that information to terrorists who could use it against us. So it was the right decision to make, and he stands by it today.

O'BRIEN: But the report is very clear, saying that there are no demonstrated al Qaeda links between Saddam Hussein and...

BARTLETT: That's not true. I've read the report, and it said that the contacts were there, there was communications. We never suggested there was operational control on 9/11, or the plot or else -- we said that they were given refuge to terrorist organization, including al Qaeda members. That much is true. The report does not refute that. It did say that there were contacts between them, and that it was reasonable for the CIA to conclude that in the NIE.

So there are some important findings in there, that I think give a clearer picture than what we heard maybe from some of the people on Capitol Hill.

O'BRIEN: Final thought here -- can you say categorically that this is all a matter of how the intelligence was gathered and presented to the administration, and not a matter of the administration seeking out an answer in the midst of all that intelligence?

BARTLETT: That's a very important question. And I think you can analyze the administration's public statements, including the president, and his statements were very similar to the statements made by members of Congress on the floor of the Senate and the House, particularly Senator Rockefeller, somebody who has been -- has used this opportunity today to cast blame and point fingers at the administration, when, in fact, when he cast his vote, he was saying some of the very same things we were saying, that he had weapons, he was reconstituting his nuclear weapon, and that we couldn't afford to leave these type of capabilities in the hands of Saddam Hussein. So we were all using the same information. Now it's important that we stop pointing fingers, and we get to the bottom of the facts, to make sure we don't do this again.

But the final decision, the final analysis by the president, it was the right thing to do to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

O'BRIEN: Dan Bartlett at the White House, head of communications there. Thanks for your time, appreciate it.

BARTLETT: Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's take a trip down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, Dianne Feinstein reacting to that report right now. Let's listen for a bit.

SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Now, one of the major reasons why the prewar intelligence was both bad and wrong, I believe, is actually a structural and functional failure within the intelligence community. Let me quote the report.

"There was a combination of systemic weaknesses, primarily in analytic tradecraft, compounded by a lack of information sharing, poor management, and inadequate intelligence collection," end quote.

I think the committee's report proves beyond all doubt that the present arrangement of collection and analysis between agencies and departments must change. The functional flaws in the intelligence community include the absence of any or adequate red teaming, which is really peer review, a procedure to reconcile differing departmental and analytical views.

There were real problems in the process used to connect the dots. By this I mean that analysts were not provided adequate information about the nature of the human sources to be able to fully access their credibility.

The committee's report does not acknowledge that the intelligence estimates were shaped by the administration. In my view, this remains an open question and needs more scrutiny.

But I will say this: Unless administration officials from the president on down had information not made available to the Senate Intelligence Committee, there was clearly an exaggeration of either an imminent or a grave and growing threat to the American people.

What's become really clear to me is that this great intelligence community set up after World War II, designed really to deal with state-to-state intelligence is not structured properly to deal in a day of nonstate, asymmetric terror, which is where our intelligence needs to go today.

It was mentioned this morning that the Department of Defense controls 80 percent of the budget and the secretary of DOD controls a majority of the departments. It is clear that any director has to have what, we call here, statutory and budgetary authority over all of the agencies if you're going to set the priorities, determine the strategies, make the choices and avoid spending huge amounts of money for naught.

So I'm very pleased to be joined by Senator Wyden, Senator Rockefeller, Senator Graham, Senator Lott, Senator Snowe and Senator Mikulski in a bill

O'BRIEN: We have been listening to Senator Diane Feinstein, Democrat, of California, member of the Intelligence Committee, talking about this scathing report that we've been telling you all about today. Interesting point she made there about the security intelligence apparatus in this country, a bit of a Cold War relic. Lots of talk about changing it. Not an easy thing to do. But we will be keeping you posted on that -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Other news across America now, begins with a court appearance for Cody Posey, the 14-year-old who's facing murder charges for the deaths of his father, mother and stepsister. Their bodies were found in a shallow grave at newsman Sam Donaldson's New Mexico ranch.

Wet weather in Arizona may be a blessing for firefighters. Expected rainfall is making fire crews them optimistic that they can protect a multimillion-dollar observatory and some 100 nearby cabins from two wildfires. Both blazes have charred almost 2,600 acres, and 35 percent contained.

On a much lighter note, Geraldine Williams never has to mop another floor again for as long as she lives. The 68-year-old retired cleaning lady won the $294 million Mega Millions jackpot. It's the highest Mega Millions prize in the history of the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALDINE WILLIAMS, MEGA MILLIONS WINNER: I don't know what it is to have money, so I don't know what I'd change. I hope I stay the same.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: You deserve it, Geraldine. Don't change.

Accusations of outrageous misconduct in the Michael Jackson case, not against the pop star, but the prosecution. The defense wants information that was seized from an investigator to be kept out of court.

Our Ted Rowlands is live from Santa Maria, California with more.

Hi, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

No decision was made here by the judge. The judge did grant a defense request to continue a scheduled hearing today on that exact subject.

But what was done today in court was that they set up a confrontation between Michael Jackson's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, and Thomas Sneddon, the D.A. here, which you alluded to earlier, is now being accused by the defense of misconduct by prosecutors.

Basically, what the defense is arguing here is that a search warrant served on a private investigator's home in Beverly -- or office in Beverly Hills was unwarranted. That investigator, Brad Miller, was working under Mark Geragos at the time of the search warrant. Geragos, of course, is Jackson's former attorney.

What the defense is alleging is that the D.A. in this case, Thomas Sneddon, knew full well Miller's role in this case and should not have been able to search that work spot and all of the evidence gathered from there could not and should not be brought in to trial.

Today, the judge delayed a ruling on this. They're going to have a hearing in late July.

But Sneddon has been subpoenaed in this case and will take the stand to defend what he says he knew at the time. In fact, today, he jumped up in court and said, "I'm ready to take the stand right now, Your Honor." "Bring it on," basically.

There were a couple moments today where you could really feel the tension between the two sides in this case.

Michael Jackson was not in court today and the judge did rule today that he does not have to appear in any of these hearings leading up to the start of his trial. That, of course, alleviates a lot of problems for the Santa Maria courthouse.

When Jackson is not here, it is relatively calm. When he is here, it is a logistical nightmare just getting him in and out of court.

The next appearance for both sides will be July 27th. And at that time, all of these issues are scheduled to be dealt with -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ted Rowlands live from Santa Maria, California. Thanks, Ted -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, you probably yelled at her -- not talking about Kyra, we're talking about another woman. Some people even shout unpleasant phrases at her. But don't let her upset you. She's a real person and she has feelings, too, gosh darn it.

But first, we know where he is now, but we don't know much more than that. The latest chapter in the odd case of Corporal Wassef Hassoun.

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O'BRIEN: This is just coming in to CNN right now. We don't have a lot of information on this. But our camera, which is up pretty much constantly at our location there in the heart of Baghdad, inside the so-called Green Zone, that fortified area where U.S. military headquarters is, as well as many of the media outlets.

As you can see -- although it's silent, there was a series of explosions that were recorded by that camera. We believe it was mortar rounds. Beyond that we don't have much to offer you except to tell you we don't believe there are any injuries.

Nevertheless, we're watching it pretty closely and we'll keep you posted -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Captured, deserted, all made up? The mystery of a Marine continues. Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun will face questioning about this purported kidnapping when he arrives at the U.S. base in Germany. How will the military's legal system handle this case?

CNN military analyst Don Shepperd live from Tucson, Arizona.

You and I have been talking about this a while, General. What do you think, AWOL?

GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Kyra, I hate to make a -- you know, a judgment and try the man on TV before he's had a hearing, an investigation, and then perhaps even a court-martial trial, but this has been bizarre from the very start.

First of all, he was missing, but not reported missing by the military. Then the next thing we saw was him blind-folded, looking good, not beat up like other hostages we've seen. And now, of course, we see him at the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon.

This is bizarre from the very beginning and certainly something mysterious.

PHILLIPS: Well, you look at this picture, allegedly, where extremists are behind him with the sword. What leads you to believe that possibly it could be fake? Is it because we don't see any other faces, we don't see any other human beings?

And I'm also curious to know what the Arabic says behind his head also.

SHEPPERD: Yes, I can't tell you what the Arabic says.

But what I see in this picture is, first of all, again, he's not beat up. His blindfold -- it looks like a bandage as opposed to any kind of blindfold that we've seen before. His mustache is well trimmed, his hair is well trimmed, his uniform is starched. And we don't see the groups of people that we have seen before.

Also reported that people taking credit for this were a group called the Islamic Response that we've not heard from before.

So, you know, it just looked very fishy from the very, very beginning. PHILLIPS: So how is that interrogation going to go down with him now?

SHEPPERD: The first thing that will happen is he'll be interviewed. And after the interview, they will determine if they want to do a formal Title 32 investigation where he will be able to be represented by counsel. And then based upon that investigation, it could go to a court-martial, which of course is a military trial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

There, the charges would likely be against him -- if it goes to a court-martial, would be absent without leave or desertion. Desertion can even carry the death penalty in a time of war, although that's highly unlikely.

On the other hand, AWOL, those type of lesser charges you can end up with things like reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay, and even time in jail.

PHILLIPS: Now, it's interesting when you say death penalty for desertion, when was the last time that happened, World War II?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I think World War II is probably the last time it happened. I don't remember it happening since then.

Of note is there are ways, if you are traumatized during combat, feel like you can't carry on, there is ways to stay within the system. You can go to your commander, you can go to your doctor and say, "I can't do this anymore," and you'll likely be removed from combat duty, perhaps discharged from the military, taken off flying status, whatever, because you're a danger to yourself and not of any value to your unit there.

So there are ways to stay within the system and do it. But when you go outside of the system, you're not allowed in the military, especially during war, to just walk off the job and say, "I don't want to be here anymore."

PHILLIPS: General, I've got a couple more questions for you.

But I just want to let our viewers know I'm just getting word now that that aircraft has landed at the U.S. base in Germany, the aircraft bringing in Corporal Hassoun. Word now that he has arrived at the air base there in Germany.

So we're trying to get our Chris Burns via telephone. We'll do that as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, let's continue our discussion.

I'm curious, is there any way that a soldier, sailor, Marine, can leave during combat, number one? And if yes, is there a way to do it in an honorable way?

SHEPPERD: There is a way to do it in an honorable way. And again, as we said, you go to your commander. He will refer you to the medics. The medics will determine whether or not you are medically or psychologically capable of continuing.

I've seen people do this in combat. Normally what you do, you take them out of the unit, you dismiss them from the military, you give them a discharge. That's the honorable way to do it within a system.

You can't just walk off the job.

The good news is, for all of us, is this man is safe, not faced some of the things that have happened to other hostages.

PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd.

We're going to ask you just to hold on for a second, General, and go to now Chris Burns on the phone.

We are just getting word now that the aircraft has landed at the U.S. base in Germany with Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun.

Chris, what do you know? Can you see the aircraft?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, we're just a few yards away from it.

No exact word on whether he is on the plane or whether he's walked off. It's not very clear. We're standing by right now.

But the plane has arrived just a few minutes ago and they escorted us to the plane just after it landed. So it's not exactly clear if he's on the plane or off the plane. But this is the one -- it's a C-17 that made about a 4 1/2-hour trip from Lebanon. And he will be examined at nearby Landstuhl, the regional medical center, military hospital where he will be checked. He will be given a medical check. And also going through debriefing and possibly psychological counseling as well as all former captives or hostages have gone through.

PHILLIPS: All right, so, Chris, he goes through the examination, gets the debrief. When exactly, though, will the hard core interview take place and those direct questions will be asked with regard to what happened? What's your story?

BURNS: Well, absolutely. A lot of explaining to do. And we're not exactly sure how much of that explaining will go on here. But they do do that at Landstuhl. There are people who are counselors, who are part of these counseling teams.

But as far as the actual investigation by the Navy Criminal Investigative Service, that is not clear. We're trying to find out more information on that.

PHILLIPS: Chris, do you know when he'll be coming back to the U.S.?

BURNS: Officials are telling us he should be here two or three days. So he could be leaving they say Monday or Tuesday. Landstuhl Medical Center is a sprawling hospital, has a lot of different kinds of high-tech care that they can check him for.

And this kind of debrief -- actually, we were here about a month and a half ago when the other former -- the former hostage Thomas Hamill was here, the one who was shot in the hand. He was a truck driver in Iraq. He went through several days of counseling, as well as medical treatment.

So that kind of counseling is very, very, very complicated. It takes many, many days. It's both counseling and debrief -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Chris Burns, live from Germany there. Thanks so much.

Let's back to military analyst General Don Shepperd. General, now that you've heard that information, and he goes through this examination, also this debrief, how -- at what -- could he go back to the states within two or three days? And the how quickly would a court-martial take place if, indeed that was going to happen?

And also, what if this examination shows that he's got some serious psychological problems? How could that change the dynamic?

SHEPPERD: The first thing you want to do is take care of the psychological and medical problems, Kyra, of the individual, of concern to him. That will be done. And then the investigation will start.

The investigation, depending on what is said, what's unfolded in this thing, could take several weeks, as a matter of fact. You're a long way away from any type of court-martial, if indeed that's the decision.

The big question is obviously is, OK you said you were kidnapped and held hostage. How did you get from your unit in Iraq, across Western Iraq, across Syria, and to your family in Lebanon, and then show up at the U.S. embassy? Those are going to be the key questions a lot of blanks to be filled in.

PHILLIPS: CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd. Thank you. We'll continue to follow this story obviously throughout the day.

More LIVE FROM... right after a quick break.

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PHILLIPS: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM..., it's her first day on the job. But the question is can she help her dad keep his job? Jenna Bush stumps with President Bush today. What will her presence add to the Bush/Cheney reelection campaign? We'll see. LIVE FROM...'s hour of power begins right after this.

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