Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

George W. Bush on Two-Day Swing Through Great Lake States; Who Will We See Up on Podium When Democrats Hold Their Convention?

Aired July 13, 2004 - 13:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, a close associate of Osama bin Laden surrendered in Saudi -- or to Saudi authorities rather in Iran. Khaled al-Harabi has been seen discussing the 9/11 attacks with bin Laden on videotape. Saudi officials say that his connection with bin Laden goes back more than 20 years, when they fought the Soviets in Afghanistan.
From New York and Maryland, they're cleaning up the mess this hour, from heavy rains and flooding overnight. CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras Reports southern New Jersey and Delaware were doused by nearly a foot of rain. More than 500 residents were evacuated from one small town. No serious injuries are reported.

Attorney General John Ashcroft is on Capitol Hill this hour. Live pictures now, as he delivers a report on the Patriot Act, saying it has helped in the battle against terror. Critic contend the act limits civil liberties and lets the government snoop into private matters such as a library and book store records.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

On Wisconsin and Michigan and Minnesota -- George W. Bush on a two-day swing through some Great Lake states where he didn't do so great in 2000.

CNN's Dana Bash traveling with the president in Marquette, Michigan -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, the president arrived in Marquette. He's making his way here to Northern Michigan University, where he will have the first rally. But you mentioned that this is a three-state, two-day swing. And let's look at where he's going. First, obviously, is here in Michigan. Then he heads to Minnesota later today, and Wisconsin; that's where he'll be taking a bus tour tomorrow. These are all places the Bush campaign thought he could win in 2000, but he went on to lose all three states to Al Gore.

Now this entire tour, Kyra, is focused on rural areas. This is -- these are places where there is a lot of registered Democrats, but tend to be a lot more socially conservative. So the president will be playing on that by pushing a line that he and his campaign started half the week, as soon as Senator John Kerry picked Senator John Edwards as his running mate. And that line is that the duo, they say, are socially liberal, and the president will play that up, say that the people who are living in these areas, maybe they're Democrats, but the people on the Democratic ticket don't really stand for what the people here stand for.

Now let's also focus on the state of Michigan. Its 17 electoral votes are very much up for grabs. Let's take a look at a poll from last week on how both candidates are faring. It shows John Kerry, slightly up by 48 percent, President Bush, 45 percent. So you see it's very tight. Perhaps within the margin of error. Now the other thing that's noteworthy, Kyra, is this particular visit to Marquette. There hasn't been a sitting president here in almost a century since President Taft was here in 1911. So the people here quite excited. It's also an area of Michigan the president lost by 10 percentage points last time. That's the reason he's here -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Dana Bash, quite a background there. Thanks so much.

Well, bounce or blip since John Edwards joined the Democratic ticket, John Kerry has pulled ahead in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup survey by just a little. And given the poll's potential margin for error, it's still a dead heat. Likely voters surveyed between last Friday and Sunday chose Kerry/Edwards over Bush/Cheney 50 percent to 46 percent.

Two weeks earlier, Bush held a one-point edge over Kerry. Add Ralph Nader to the mix and he draws 2 percent of the vote, versus 50 percent for Kerry, 45 for Bush.

Every state is a battleground in this presidential election, but judging by volume and placement of TV ads, the candidates themselves apparently believe the Midwest is a must-win, in particular, Iowa, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. "USA Today" ran the numbers and found those states have, by far, the highest ratio of campaign ad runs per electoral vote. Only 48 electoral votes are at stake in all those states combined. In 2000, Bush won Missouri and Ohio, Al Gore carried Iowa and Wisconsin.

Well, we're getting a better idea of who we will see up on the podium when the Democrats hold their convention in just a couple weeks.

Let's go to "INSIDE POLITICS" Judy Woodruff for the latest.

Hi, Judy. Good to see you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Let's start with Max Cleland of Georgia, Vietnam connection here, good friends with John Kerry. What do you think we'll hear from him? Was this a good move, good speaker?

WOODRUFF: Well, this is how the Bush campaign -- I'm sorry, how the Kerry campaign, Kyra, is trying to reintroduce John Kerry to the American people. If you step back for just a minute, think of this convention as the way for the Kerry/Edwards camp to, No. 1, make the American people comfortable with John Kerry the person, and, No. 2, to make them comfortable with the idea that he can lead this country through a very difficult period, post-9/11, post-war in Iraq, when the U.S. has had very difficult relationships with many of its former allies.

So they've got their work cut out for them in this convention, and they're approaching it in a serious way. They've got very specific missions each night. The man you asked about, Max Cleland, will be the person to introduce John Kerry on Thursday night, when Kerry makes his acceptance speech. We know Max Cleland lost three limbs in Vietnam. The two men are very close. He is the former senator from the state of Georgia. I think what you're going to hear from him is a very heartfelt statement of why he believes John Kerry is the man to lead the country through this very difficult time we find ourselves in.

PHILLIPS: And also Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, former Vice President Al Gore, all three of those guys will be speaking opening night.

WOODRUFF: That's right, opening night. Kyra, the theme of the convention, they're calling it "stronger at home and respected in the world," but, again, it's all about making people comfortable with John Kerry and comfortable he's the right leader.

You're right, on Monday night, we're going to hear from two former presidents, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. We'll also hear from Al Gore, who was the nominee in 2000. On Tuesday night, you'll hear from Teresa Heinz Kerry, but before her, from Senator Edward Kennedy. Many would say he is the epitome of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. Whatever you call him, he is someone who has been supportive of John Kerry, has been instrumental in many ways in pulling together the kind of support that Kerry needed in order to march his way to the nomination. So Tuesday night, very much a thank you, not only to Ted Kennedy, but to the Kennedy family in general. Boston of course being home of the Kennedys, the home of former President John Kerry.

PHILLIPS: Judy, real quickly, Theresa Heinz Kerry, featured speaker the following night, highlighting, I'm seeing here, Kerry's lifetime of strength and service. I'm just remembering an article that Anna Quinlan wrote a couple weeks ago about the woman voter. We are seeing more of a presence by Kerry's wife, also Edwards' wife. What do you think the purpose is behind this?

WOODRUFF: Well, I think, particularly with Theresa Heinz Kerry, Kyra, this is in one way the campaign can go about softening up John Kerry's image. For whatever else you say about John Kerry, we know he's intelligent, we know he's served in the Senate, he served in Vietnam, courageous, but he doesn't tend to be as warm, as open, as some other politicians. And they want to use, frankly, his wife, his second wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, to soften that up, to soften up that image, to talk about John Kerry the man, you know, why she thinks he'd be a great president. You know, you see this to some extent on the part of the Republicans, Laura Bush, to a degree with President Bush, the first lady and President Bush. I think with John Edwards, it's a little different. He, I think, has a warmer image, more open, personable image, and I think using his wife, which they will do on Wednesday night to introduce John Edwards, is really showing a partnership. She's a strong speaker, a smart woman in her own right. They're going to be introducing the Edwards' team, if you will, on Wednesday night.

PHILLIPS: Judy Woodruff, thanks, Judy.

WOODRUFF: You're welcome. Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: Good to see you, too. And of course Judy will have more details on the Democratic Convention and the rest of the day's political news, at 3:30 eastern on "INSIDE POLITICS," right here on CNN.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: In health news, there's new thinking about cholesterol levels. What was once considered safe for high-risk patients isn't any more.

Keeping her eye on the new figures, our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen here to talk more about it.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: These are new guidelines from the National Institutes of Health. And basically what they're saying is you've got to go really low. If you're already at risk for an heart attack, your cholesterol has to get lower than what they had previously thought. Let's take a look at what the new guidelines say. They say that if you are at high risk for -- a very high risk for a heart attack, your bad cholesterol, should be -- if it's above 70, you should consider drugs. They used to say if your bad cholesterol was above 100, you should consider drugs. Now they're saying if it's about 70, consider drugs; diet and exercise may not cut it.

Now how do you know if you're at very high risk for having a heart attack? Well, if you have cardiovascular disease, plus other problems, such as diabetes and hypertension, that would put you at high risk.

What about the rest of us who may not be at high risk? Well, the guidelines for many of those folks have also gone down. They say that basically doctors need to consider putting people on drugs called statins to lower cholesterol sooner than had previously been thought; even if you're not at a very high risk for a heart attack.

PHILLIPS: All right, you're talking about the bad cholesterol. Now how is that different from the total cholesterol number that everybody talks about?

COHEN: Right, most people (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what's your total cholesterol, someone will say a neighbor like sort of in the neighborhood of 200. That's total cholesterol. For going on drugs, what you want to pay attention to is the bad cholesterol. That's the LDL. The regulations, the guidelines say, keeping it below 100 is optimal, 130 is borderline high, 160 is officially high. Now that's for normal, healthy people. If you're at a particularly high risk for heart attack, you need to be worried even sooner about these levels.

PHILLIPS: All right, so if the cholesterol guidelines are changing that means more people on medication, right?

COHEN: That's right.

PHILLIPS: OK -- side effects?

COHEN: Right, these medications do have side effects. They're lifesavers for many people, but they do have side affects. They're called statins, and if you're doctors puts you on them, what you're going to watch for is liver problems. Your doctor will be giving you blood tests to make sure you don't have liver problems. Also GI problems and muscle aches, and again, these drugs can really be lifesavers. But you have to remember, you can't just -- you want to dry diet and exercise first, because they're not without side effects.

PHILLIPS: All right, there's always something.

COHEN: There's always something.

PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.

Well, they're called people meters, but some people aren't getting them.

Still to come, how this little machine can determine what you watch on TV and why some people aren't too happy about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A private gripe is becoming a public fight. For years, television networks have quietly grumbled about the way Nielsen Ratings ranks their show. Now Nielsen is in the spotlight facing claims from minority groups that the new rating system shuts them out. Our Sibila Vargas gages reaction to the new people meter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the streets of New York to the steps of Los Angeles City Hall, protesters are criticizing Nielsen, the company that provides advertisers with ratings data, for its new local people meter system.

ALEX NOGALES, NATIONAL HISPANIC MEDIA COALITION: This is a civil rights issue. We need to be counted. This is like the census. Unless we are counted, we're going to be invisible.

VARGAS: The electronic system for gathering ratings eliminates the need for paper diaries. It is already in place in Boston and New York and was introduced last week in Los Angeles. But it's under fire from some minority groups and major broadcasters like Fox, CBS, Univision and Tribune. Several minority organizations partly funded by Fox say the meter system needs a lot of improvement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is technologically much more advanced. The other one had too many way it could be flawed and so forth. It doesn't really matter. If the methodology is incorrect, you're not going to have the proper number of Latinos and African-Americans and other people of color.

VARGAS: Early test data from people meters in New York show declines for a variety of shows like "The Simpsons," as well as some that are especially popular with minority viewers. Critics fear the new system could lead to less diversity in programming.

AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This could mean a lot of jobs in our community. And it could also mean that we have the whitenizing of American television, based on a system, rather than based on fairness.

VARGAS: It could also mean the loss of millions of advertising dollars to networks whose shows dip in the ratings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a lot of dollars at stake. And that's where Actually some of this controversy is also coming.

VARGAS: Nielsen declined our request for an interview, but its Web site says it will increase the number of people meters in African- American and Hispanic households in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not going from something perfect to something imperfect. We're going from something that's very imperfect to something that's slightly better.

VARGAS (on camera): Later this week, the Senate Communications Subcommittee will hold hearings regarding local people meters. And Nielsen plans to roll out the new system in Chicago early next month. And we should add that CNN is a Nielsen client, as is Turner Broadcasting.

Sibila Vargas, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: They're all bound for Baghdad. Come up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, one professor's crusade to build up the library at his Iraqi alma matter and how you can help in his success. LIVE FROM'S hour of power begins right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 13, 2004 - 13:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, a close associate of Osama bin Laden surrendered in Saudi -- or to Saudi authorities rather in Iran. Khaled al-Harabi has been seen discussing the 9/11 attacks with bin Laden on videotape. Saudi officials say that his connection with bin Laden goes back more than 20 years, when they fought the Soviets in Afghanistan.
From New York and Maryland, they're cleaning up the mess this hour, from heavy rains and flooding overnight. CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras Reports southern New Jersey and Delaware were doused by nearly a foot of rain. More than 500 residents were evacuated from one small town. No serious injuries are reported.

Attorney General John Ashcroft is on Capitol Hill this hour. Live pictures now, as he delivers a report on the Patriot Act, saying it has helped in the battle against terror. Critic contend the act limits civil liberties and lets the government snoop into private matters such as a library and book store records.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

On Wisconsin and Michigan and Minnesota -- George W. Bush on a two-day swing through some Great Lake states where he didn't do so great in 2000.

CNN's Dana Bash traveling with the president in Marquette, Michigan -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, the president arrived in Marquette. He's making his way here to Northern Michigan University, where he will have the first rally. But you mentioned that this is a three-state, two-day swing. And let's look at where he's going. First, obviously, is here in Michigan. Then he heads to Minnesota later today, and Wisconsin; that's where he'll be taking a bus tour tomorrow. These are all places the Bush campaign thought he could win in 2000, but he went on to lose all three states to Al Gore.

Now this entire tour, Kyra, is focused on rural areas. This is -- these are places where there is a lot of registered Democrats, but tend to be a lot more socially conservative. So the president will be playing on that by pushing a line that he and his campaign started half the week, as soon as Senator John Kerry picked Senator John Edwards as his running mate. And that line is that the duo, they say, are socially liberal, and the president will play that up, say that the people who are living in these areas, maybe they're Democrats, but the people on the Democratic ticket don't really stand for what the people here stand for.

Now let's also focus on the state of Michigan. Its 17 electoral votes are very much up for grabs. Let's take a look at a poll from last week on how both candidates are faring. It shows John Kerry, slightly up by 48 percent, President Bush, 45 percent. So you see it's very tight. Perhaps within the margin of error. Now the other thing that's noteworthy, Kyra, is this particular visit to Marquette. There hasn't been a sitting president here in almost a century since President Taft was here in 1911. So the people here quite excited. It's also an area of Michigan the president lost by 10 percentage points last time. That's the reason he's here -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Dana Bash, quite a background there. Thanks so much.

Well, bounce or blip since John Edwards joined the Democratic ticket, John Kerry has pulled ahead in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup survey by just a little. And given the poll's potential margin for error, it's still a dead heat. Likely voters surveyed between last Friday and Sunday chose Kerry/Edwards over Bush/Cheney 50 percent to 46 percent.

Two weeks earlier, Bush held a one-point edge over Kerry. Add Ralph Nader to the mix and he draws 2 percent of the vote, versus 50 percent for Kerry, 45 for Bush.

Every state is a battleground in this presidential election, but judging by volume and placement of TV ads, the candidates themselves apparently believe the Midwest is a must-win, in particular, Iowa, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. "USA Today" ran the numbers and found those states have, by far, the highest ratio of campaign ad runs per electoral vote. Only 48 electoral votes are at stake in all those states combined. In 2000, Bush won Missouri and Ohio, Al Gore carried Iowa and Wisconsin.

Well, we're getting a better idea of who we will see up on the podium when the Democrats hold their convention in just a couple weeks.

Let's go to "INSIDE POLITICS" Judy Woodruff for the latest.

Hi, Judy. Good to see you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Let's start with Max Cleland of Georgia, Vietnam connection here, good friends with John Kerry. What do you think we'll hear from him? Was this a good move, good speaker?

WOODRUFF: Well, this is how the Bush campaign -- I'm sorry, how the Kerry campaign, Kyra, is trying to reintroduce John Kerry to the American people. If you step back for just a minute, think of this convention as the way for the Kerry/Edwards camp to, No. 1, make the American people comfortable with John Kerry the person, and, No. 2, to make them comfortable with the idea that he can lead this country through a very difficult period, post-9/11, post-war in Iraq, when the U.S. has had very difficult relationships with many of its former allies.

So they've got their work cut out for them in this convention, and they're approaching it in a serious way. They've got very specific missions each night. The man you asked about, Max Cleland, will be the person to introduce John Kerry on Thursday night, when Kerry makes his acceptance speech. We know Max Cleland lost three limbs in Vietnam. The two men are very close. He is the former senator from the state of Georgia. I think what you're going to hear from him is a very heartfelt statement of why he believes John Kerry is the man to lead the country through this very difficult time we find ourselves in.

PHILLIPS: And also Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, former Vice President Al Gore, all three of those guys will be speaking opening night.

WOODRUFF: That's right, opening night. Kyra, the theme of the convention, they're calling it "stronger at home and respected in the world," but, again, it's all about making people comfortable with John Kerry and comfortable he's the right leader.

You're right, on Monday night, we're going to hear from two former presidents, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. We'll also hear from Al Gore, who was the nominee in 2000. On Tuesday night, you'll hear from Teresa Heinz Kerry, but before her, from Senator Edward Kennedy. Many would say he is the epitome of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. Whatever you call him, he is someone who has been supportive of John Kerry, has been instrumental in many ways in pulling together the kind of support that Kerry needed in order to march his way to the nomination. So Tuesday night, very much a thank you, not only to Ted Kennedy, but to the Kennedy family in general. Boston of course being home of the Kennedys, the home of former President John Kerry.

PHILLIPS: Judy, real quickly, Theresa Heinz Kerry, featured speaker the following night, highlighting, I'm seeing here, Kerry's lifetime of strength and service. I'm just remembering an article that Anna Quinlan wrote a couple weeks ago about the woman voter. We are seeing more of a presence by Kerry's wife, also Edwards' wife. What do you think the purpose is behind this?

WOODRUFF: Well, I think, particularly with Theresa Heinz Kerry, Kyra, this is in one way the campaign can go about softening up John Kerry's image. For whatever else you say about John Kerry, we know he's intelligent, we know he's served in the Senate, he served in Vietnam, courageous, but he doesn't tend to be as warm, as open, as some other politicians. And they want to use, frankly, his wife, his second wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, to soften that up, to soften up that image, to talk about John Kerry the man, you know, why she thinks he'd be a great president. You know, you see this to some extent on the part of the Republicans, Laura Bush, to a degree with President Bush, the first lady and President Bush. I think with John Edwards, it's a little different. He, I think, has a warmer image, more open, personable image, and I think using his wife, which they will do on Wednesday night to introduce John Edwards, is really showing a partnership. She's a strong speaker, a smart woman in her own right. They're going to be introducing the Edwards' team, if you will, on Wednesday night.

PHILLIPS: Judy Woodruff, thanks, Judy.

WOODRUFF: You're welcome. Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: Good to see you, too. And of course Judy will have more details on the Democratic Convention and the rest of the day's political news, at 3:30 eastern on "INSIDE POLITICS," right here on CNN.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: In health news, there's new thinking about cholesterol levels. What was once considered safe for high-risk patients isn't any more.

Keeping her eye on the new figures, our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen here to talk more about it.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: These are new guidelines from the National Institutes of Health. And basically what they're saying is you've got to go really low. If you're already at risk for an heart attack, your cholesterol has to get lower than what they had previously thought. Let's take a look at what the new guidelines say. They say that if you are at high risk for -- a very high risk for a heart attack, your bad cholesterol, should be -- if it's above 70, you should consider drugs. They used to say if your bad cholesterol was above 100, you should consider drugs. Now they're saying if it's about 70, consider drugs; diet and exercise may not cut it.

Now how do you know if you're at very high risk for having a heart attack? Well, if you have cardiovascular disease, plus other problems, such as diabetes and hypertension, that would put you at high risk.

What about the rest of us who may not be at high risk? Well, the guidelines for many of those folks have also gone down. They say that basically doctors need to consider putting people on drugs called statins to lower cholesterol sooner than had previously been thought; even if you're not at a very high risk for a heart attack.

PHILLIPS: All right, you're talking about the bad cholesterol. Now how is that different from the total cholesterol number that everybody talks about?

COHEN: Right, most people (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what's your total cholesterol, someone will say a neighbor like sort of in the neighborhood of 200. That's total cholesterol. For going on drugs, what you want to pay attention to is the bad cholesterol. That's the LDL. The regulations, the guidelines say, keeping it below 100 is optimal, 130 is borderline high, 160 is officially high. Now that's for normal, healthy people. If you're at a particularly high risk for heart attack, you need to be worried even sooner about these levels.

PHILLIPS: All right, so if the cholesterol guidelines are changing that means more people on medication, right?

COHEN: That's right.

PHILLIPS: OK -- side effects?

COHEN: Right, these medications do have side effects. They're lifesavers for many people, but they do have side affects. They're called statins, and if you're doctors puts you on them, what you're going to watch for is liver problems. Your doctor will be giving you blood tests to make sure you don't have liver problems. Also GI problems and muscle aches, and again, these drugs can really be lifesavers. But you have to remember, you can't just -- you want to dry diet and exercise first, because they're not without side effects.

PHILLIPS: All right, there's always something.

COHEN: There's always something.

PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.

Well, they're called people meters, but some people aren't getting them.

Still to come, how this little machine can determine what you watch on TV and why some people aren't too happy about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A private gripe is becoming a public fight. For years, television networks have quietly grumbled about the way Nielsen Ratings ranks their show. Now Nielsen is in the spotlight facing claims from minority groups that the new rating system shuts them out. Our Sibila Vargas gages reaction to the new people meter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the streets of New York to the steps of Los Angeles City Hall, protesters are criticizing Nielsen, the company that provides advertisers with ratings data, for its new local people meter system.

ALEX NOGALES, NATIONAL HISPANIC MEDIA COALITION: This is a civil rights issue. We need to be counted. This is like the census. Unless we are counted, we're going to be invisible.

VARGAS: The electronic system for gathering ratings eliminates the need for paper diaries. It is already in place in Boston and New York and was introduced last week in Los Angeles. But it's under fire from some minority groups and major broadcasters like Fox, CBS, Univision and Tribune. Several minority organizations partly funded by Fox say the meter system needs a lot of improvement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is technologically much more advanced. The other one had too many way it could be flawed and so forth. It doesn't really matter. If the methodology is incorrect, you're not going to have the proper number of Latinos and African-Americans and other people of color.

VARGAS: Early test data from people meters in New York show declines for a variety of shows like "The Simpsons," as well as some that are especially popular with minority viewers. Critics fear the new system could lead to less diversity in programming.

AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This could mean a lot of jobs in our community. And it could also mean that we have the whitenizing of American television, based on a system, rather than based on fairness.

VARGAS: It could also mean the loss of millions of advertising dollars to networks whose shows dip in the ratings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a lot of dollars at stake. And that's where Actually some of this controversy is also coming.

VARGAS: Nielsen declined our request for an interview, but its Web site says it will increase the number of people meters in African- American and Hispanic households in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not going from something perfect to something imperfect. We're going from something that's very imperfect to something that's slightly better.

VARGAS (on camera): Later this week, the Senate Communications Subcommittee will hold hearings regarding local people meters. And Nielsen plans to roll out the new system in Chicago early next month. And we should add that CNN is a Nielsen client, as is Turner Broadcasting.

Sibila Vargas, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: They're all bound for Baghdad. Come up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, one professor's crusade to build up the library at his Iraqi alma matter and how you can help in his success. LIVE FROM'S hour of power begins right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com