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Allegations Against Fmr. Nat'l Sec. Advisor Sandy Berger; Air Force Considers 30,000-pound bomb; NASA Celebrates First Moonwalk Anniversary
Aired July 20, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Stuffing secrets in his socks? Terror documents removed, but a former national security advisor says it was a mistake.
A bulldozer and a bullet end a tense hostage drama. The inside story behind these amazing pictures.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty-five years ago, the pictures weren't so amazing; they were kind of grainy and black and white.
What was interesting and amazing was where they came from: the moon. We'll tell you about an important anniversary in space on LIVE FROM -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Miles. And check out this creature. Have you ever seen one of these wandering in your backyard? Mystery animal caught on tape.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour: Sloppy or sinister, or something in between? Former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger says he didn't mean to smuggle sensitive documents pertaining to the Clinton-era war on terror from the National Archives.
A criminal investigation is now underway, and at least one document is still unaccounted for. Berger says he accidentally discarded a few papers, but never withheld anything from the 9/11 Commission, at whose behest he was digging through files.
CNN's Bob Franken is on the paper chase in Washington -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a very serious, serious matter. Mishandling intelligence by people authorized to -- to get access to it is considered very serious. Serious enough that the FBI came to Sandy Berger's home in February with a warrant to search for the missing documents.
Now, Berger is the former national security advisor for President Clinton, also an advisor to the Kerry campaign, as the Bush campaign has been pointing out repeatedly.
Berger is -- says that he made a mistake, that he had taken notes from the archives as he had been researching the National Archives for presentations to the 9/11 Commission.
He had done it in the summer and fall. After the fall, the archives knew that some of the documents were missing. Berger says that he accidentally discarded some of the documents and was very sloppy.
He says, "I deeply regret the sloppiness involved but had no intention of withholding documents from the Commission and, to the contrary, to my knowledge every document requested by the Commission from the Clinton administration was produced."
Now, the deputy attorney general, assistant attorney general, at a news conference today talked about just how serious this is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: As a general matter, we take issues of classified information very, very seriously. And as you know, we have prosecuted or sought administrative sanctions against any number of people throughout the years for mishandling of classified information. So, it's our lifeblood, those secrets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: This has a very strong political side to it, too, in addition to the legal side.
The Republican House Speaker, Dennis Hastert, put out a statement in which he said -- or asked -- rather, "Did these documents detail simple negligence or did they contain something more sinister? Was this a bungled attempt to rewrite history and keep critical information from the 9/11 Commission and potentially put their report under a cloud?"
He goes on to say, "Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do."
Now, that is pretty much the kind of statement that the Republican side wants put out -- remember this is an election year. The Democratic side has a different point of view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: ... deserves certainly the benefit of the doubt here. He's cooperating, but I do think the timing is very curious, given this has been underway now for this long. Somebody leaked it, obviously with an intent, I think, to do damage to Mr. Berger, and I think that's unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now, we have the further charge that Berger was seen -- this is according to three law enforcement sources talking to CNN's Justice Department correspondent Kelli Arena -- who said they saw him, or that he had been seen putting documents in his socks.
And that brought a statement from Joe Lockhart, the former White House press secretary, speaking on behalf of Berger and saying, "Sandy Berger categorically denies that he ever took documents and stuffed them in his socks. That is absurd. And anyone who says that is interested in something other than the truth."
So, we have documents, Kyra, that are classified higher than the legendary Q classification. These are called code documents, code- word documents, the highest classification.
Already a strange story -- and now the socks -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: You mention the strange story, you mention the socks. You also mention the timing, Bob.
I think it's important we should point out that indeed Mr. Berger is an informal advisor to John Kerry and to that camp, so you do wonder about the timing here.
Is that a concern?
FRANKEN: Well, it is something that has been brought up. The Bush campaign has, as I said, made an effort to make sure that it is reported that he is an advisor to the Kerry campaign. I'm not quite sure the difference between formal and informal. Perhaps they're on a first name basis.
But the other bit of timing is the fact that in just a couple of days the 9/11 Commission is about to put out a report that is expected to be quite critical of this administration, as well as perhaps the previous administration. And there have been some on the Democratic side who are suggesting that this was leaked now to draw attention away from that.
An administration source says there is, quote, "absolutely no truth to that" -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: You talk about informal -- I think it's the fact that he's not paid. Bob Franken, thanks so much.
Well, rethinking intelligence. Does the U.S. need one person at the helm of a dozen plus agencies and offices currently gathering information for the White House and Pentagon?
Well, the 9/11 Commission is expected, rather, to answer yes until the Senate Intelligence Committee looks into that question for itself. It's hearing starts at 2:30 p.m. Eastern. We'll keep an ear out for updates.
Well, it may never get off the ground, but U.S. war planners are working on their own version of a big bang theory. CNN's Barbara Starr has the explosive details -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Kyra, it is just an idea on paper right now, but the Air Force is looking at ideas for a new 30,000-pound bomb.
This would be one of the largest weapons ever developed. A 30,000-pound bomb that would be used to attack underground or deeply buried targets would be deployed off a B-2 or B-52 bomber.
It's called the Massive Ordinance Penetrator, already fondly referred to as Big Blue around the Pentagon.
Now, this would be about six times larger than the current penetrating weapon, which is just a puny little 5,000 pounder. You see it here.
But the Air Force found out after it went to Iraq and it looked at some of the bomb sites that they had attacked that some of the underground bunkers in Iraq had not even been fully destroyed with these underground-attacking weapons, so they decided that they need something much larger.
And indeed, one of their concerns is having the future military capability to attack targets, underground targets, in North Korea, if it ever came to that.
But this is really going to be quite a design challenge, because when you just think of it, 30,000 pounds on the B-2 bomber, for example, they'd have to put one bomb under each wing, essentially, so the plane could actually get off the ground. That's 60,000 pounds right there.
And of course, they would eventually have to drop both weapons, because if you only drop 30,000 pounds off one side of the plane, you would probably lose stability in flight.
So, a lot of technical challenges to overcome, but an interesting fact of history -- 30,000 pounds isn't the largest bomb ever built. During the Cold War, during the 1950s, the U.S. had a 44,000-pound bomb, but it was very inaccurate and, by all accounts, never used -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr live from the Pentagon.
Well, 35 years ago today, NASA gave the world's dreamers and schemers a ready-made rationale for anything. You've said it yourself, they can put a man on the moon, so why can't they -- fill in the blank.
Men arrived on the moon July 20, 1969 on board the Eagle Lunar Module from Apollo 11. Of course, our Miles O'Brien is marking the big day at the National Air & Space Museum in Washington.
I guess you could say he's in heaven. Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Hello. Tranquility Base here. Good to see you, Kyra.
Yes, you know, as they say, if they can put a man on the moon, why can't we -- put a man on the moon?
Because that has been the talk of late as NASA celebrates this 35th anniversary of the first moon walk, July 20th, 1969. There's a lot of talk about a return to the moon, but a different kind of return, not to leave footprints and plant flags, necessarily, but as a way station for perhaps something more audacious -- a piloted flight, perhaps, to Mars. Maybe 30 years from now, possibly?
The question is: Will there be the funding and the initiative and the desire to do all that? We're in the very early stages of this. The president just announced this initiative in mid-January. Hasn't said a peep about it since.
It remains to be seen whether, in fact, this will come to pass but nevertheless on this anniversary it's an opportunity to look back, as well.
Allan Needell makes that his mission in life. He is in charge of all of space history here at the Air & Space Museum.
Good to have you with us, Allan, and it's such a remarkable collection -- for those of you haven't been here, you've got to come visit.
But we're standing in front of one of the more notable ones. This is a lunar module. Obviously, this is not one that went to the moon; the ones that went to the moon ultimately were destroyed as they de-orbited. But this one was designed to be tested in the orbit of earth. Never had to be flown.
But when you look at it, the thing that always strikes me is it looks like it was just kind of hammered together with loose tin and the shape is so odd -- how can it possibly fly?
ALLAN NEEDELL, SPACE HISTORY CURATOR: Well, most of the design of the aircraft is, of course, designed for aerodynamics for a smooth flight through the atmosphere.
This is one of the only spacecraft -- or the only spacecraft, which is really never designed to fly in the atmosphere at all. So, streamlining, air control, wings...
O'BRIEN: Don't need it.
NEEDELL: ... don't need it -- don't need it.
O'BRIEN: All those smooth shapes we're used to, forget about it. What's interesting up here, you see those nozzle-type things -- which are the thrusters, which allow it to maintain its...
NEEDELL: Altitude and direction while it's flying.
O'BRIEN: ... altitude. But it's got like a cape beneath it. What is that for? What does that cape do kind of there?
NEEDELL: The last thing you want to do when you're out in the vacuum of space is take exhaust from an engine and have it impact on this foil.
This foil doesn't do very well in the air, but it protected it from meteorites and from the ultraviolet radiations from the sun. And so, a simple solution: How do you keep the foil from getting ripped off by the exhaust? Well, you put a little curtain there to deflect the exhaust.
O'BRIEN: You know, it almost seems a bit ad hoc, but a lot of that really, in retrospect, seems that way, because they were in a hurry to do this -- efficiently but do it properly, as well.
NEEDELL: That's right, and it worked.
O'BRIEN: Now, over here you can see the ladder -- I don't know if you can see the ladder. And this is the mannequin showing -- in this case it would be Buzz Aldrin coming down. That's -- you know, when Neil Armstrong did it, he said that was one small step for a man -- it still looks like a pretty big step, doesn't it?
NEEDELL: The advantage is, is getting back up. It's only one- sixth gravity, so you can jump probably a lot farther than you could on the -- on the earth.
O'BRIEN: So, you would weigh one-sixth of your weight now. This, as it appears here, it really gives you a sense of the fragility of what they accomplished.
I'm taken aback by how they pulled it off. A quarter million miles away from Earth, to land this thing successfully and then take it back off. Do you think much about that as you...
NEEDELL: Well, I think about being up there and realizing when you want to leave, you get in that upper stage, the bottom part is your launch pad and that engine there has to work.
I mean, there's no second chance. It's what you call no-failure mode is acceptable on that one. And so, it's a very, very special engine, which was designed to be completely reliable; there's barely no way -- basically no way it could have failed.
O'BRIEN: No way it could have failed. As a matter of fact, I believe Richard Nixon at the time wrote -- just in case, he wrote a letter, a speech, if you will to the nation...
NEEDELL: That's right, a speechwriter...
O'BRIEN: Had his speechwriters do it, you know, on the event that they were stuck on the surface of the moon, a poignant speech that, of course, never had to be delivered because it was successful.
Allan Needell, thank you very much. Just a small part of what's here.
There's many suits and toothbrushes and food that they ate along the way. And then at their new facility, the Udvar Hazy facility near Dulles Airport, they actually have the -- well it's a trailer, it's a glorified trailer that was the containment facility, the astronauts stayed in it for -- how long after the flight? More than a week, right?
NEEDELL: Yes, until they got back to the Houston to be -- basically two weeks in confinement. O'BRIEN: They were quarantined afterwards, Kyra, because they were concerned they might have picked up some sort of alien bug. That also didn't happen.
PHILLIPS: Next segment, no aliens. All right, very good. We'll look forward to the next hit. Thanks so much Miles.
Well, when the hostage taker fired bullets, police brought in the bulldozer. What happened next? Details ahead on LIVE FROM.
And caught on tape: a bridge jumper and a trooper on his toes. That rescue, straight ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON GORSKE, BIG MAC RECORD-HOLDER: I plan on eating Big Macs until I probably die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Big Mac attack. He's up to 20,000 and counting. We're holding the special sauce. Later on LIVE FROM.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, let's head farther north. Testimony has resumed in the Scott Peterson murder trial. On the stand today is a detective who admitted that police questioned, but never eliminated, certain people in the case.
CNN's Rusty Dornin covering the trial in Redwood City. Hi, Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, detective Ray Coyle was the one charged with the task of investigating some 300 parolees and sex offenders in the Laci Peterson case.
He went through about 10 yesterday, Mark Geragos doing the cross- examination, admitting that they didn't follow up with many of these. Now today, Geragos has been questioning and in detail on more than 20 sex offenders about the ones that could not confirm their alibis.
For example, one of them said that he was at his mother's on Christmas Eve the night Laci Peterson disappeared. They called the mother; she could not confirm his alibi. She said that he wasn't anywhere around. But police did not follow up on that.
Now, as he goes through each one of these offenders and the fact that police either didn't follow up or didn't make contact with them, he asks the question did that constitute a complete investigation, at which point Detective Coyle says yes.
Well, that does drive home the point to the jury -- the defense's attempt that -- to show that the prosecution, you know, is not following up on other suspects -- that other people could have killed Laci Peterson.
Coyle is still on the stand. They've apparently finished with the sex offender reports that are on now to the search on the bay. Another police witness is expected on the stand this afternoon.
Now, we are now hearing from sources that Amber Frey, who was expected to testify next week, in fact will not testify until some time after that. We are not sure of the time, but the court will not -- is actually taking a dark day next Wednesday, and then on Thursday the jury will not be coming in because they will be discussing Mark Geragos' request for a mistrial -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Rusty Dornin, live from Redwood City, thank you.
Other news from across America. Now in Florida, state wildlife officials are being urged not to wear their uniforms.
The agency has been getting a rash of death threats after an escaped tiger was shot to death last week. Wildlife officers say Bobo lunged at them as they tried to capture him, but the tiger's owner and many others have called the shooting murder.
In Hampton, New Hampshire, it's been almost four months since 85- year-old Alice Keyho was found dead in her sister's home. Among many injuries, the elderly woman had 22 broken ribs. Well, Helen Garland, aged 74, told police Alice had fallen down the stairs.
But days later, she was arraigned on assault charges. Police quoted Helen saying she, quote, "might have given her a boot as I walked by her with the side of my foot." Now, the death has been ruled a homicide, and prosecutors are filing additional charges against Helen Garland.
In custody and out of harm's way: A harrowing 13 hour stand-off comes to a dramatic end in South Carolina as police bulldoze part of a convenient store to capture a suspect and free an employee he'd taken hostage.
Our Mike Brooks, who is a former Washington police detective and hostage negotiator, joins us to talk about this and also another amazing rescue. Why don't we first take our viewers through the scenario and what happened.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This was unbelievable scenario. And the Spartanburg Police -- I spoke with them today, and they kind of walked me through exactly what happened. I had a lot of questions, but from what I've seen in my 22 years of tactical experience, as well as hostage negotiation, I think they did a pretty, pretty good job.
PHILLIPS: All right let's take a look at the tape -- that is if we have the tape. Are we good to go on the tape? Here we go.
BROOKS: It all started with a traffic stop. They pulled the guy over, he had expired tags, and he got out. He was acting suspicious. They told him to put his hands on the trunk. He took off running.
He ran into the convenience store and -- 38-year-old Jimmy Johnson. Then he had an assault gun as he was -- they were chasing him. He ran inside, he grabbed the owner, there was a customer coming out. He was -- that apparently was the only customer, went inside, grabbed the owner, Sara Patel and held her hostage for almost 13 hours.
Now, it was a -- it was a tense standoff. They brought in a robot, which we see here. They initially used two cell phones, but the cell phones -- the batteries ran down after a certain amount of hours...
PHILLIPS: And let's set up the communications. You try to negotiate first.
BROOKS: Right. Exactly. You try to negotiate, 95 percent of all hostage situations are -- are taken care of through negotiation. But they used the robot, he took the -- the robot took the phone up.
The battery ran down; they used -- negotiators from the Spartanburg police and the FBI.
Here we see Ms. Patel leaning out and grabbing one of the phones. Now they locked the front door. There was just a little space that he -- she was able to get though here to open the door and let her grab the phone.
But officers weren't able to get inside, because they had the two locked glass doors. Then, they had a Plexiglas screen right behind that with wire mesh so it was impossible, almost impossible to get in there after this and they knew he had a gun.
They said he wasn't' really demanding anything. In fact, the captain, Captain Hardy, told me that at one point they thought it might be that he might be trying to set himself up for suicide by cop -- victim precipitated homicide.
And we see here in the front of the store, they used the robot again. After 13 hours, he fired 10 rounds out through the front door and he threatened to kill the hostage. This is when they decided that they had to do emergency assault.
They used the robot to come up as a diversion in front of the store to pound on the front door. Then they brought in a bulldozer. And we'll see here in just a short time, you'll see the bulldozer take the section of the wall out. Now, they weren't able to see in because of supplies, and they thought that they had run into the cooler.
So, then they took another section of the wall out, and then you see Jimmy Johnson come with Ms. Patel -- you see her emerge through the rubble. Here the officers are trying to breach just the front door, but then right after that, they were confronted with a Plexiglas wall.
PHILLIPS: Now normally to distract someone like this, like the hostage taker, you use a flash-bang to try to throw things off, but they really couldn't see where he was. Is that why they moved to the bulldozer?
BROOKS: It's exactly right, and then we see him here emerge with the hostage, with the gun in his right hand. Then the snipers, they had already had the green light. They shot him, they were attempting to shoot him actually in the head -- he slipped, and the police told me that he was shot in the shoulder. The hostage was then able to escape from him.
The police brought her over. She was safe. We see her running out the rubble right now. Police encouraging her to come on, keep running, keep running to them.
And then, you'll see they'll -- you'll see a couple of flashes -- those are stun grenades -- flash-bangs, if you will -- that are concussion grenades. They disorient the person who is inside with sound an light, and they were able to go in and take him into custody.
Here you see the officers throwing his -- the flash-bangs and the sound and the light, and they were able to go in and apprehend him. But just very, very dangerous situation.
Hostage situations, Kyra, they can -- they can go from good to bad and sometimes to worse. Here, they were able to get the hostage out. No one was killed, no officers were injured, that was a successful mission.
PHILLIPS: All right, stick around. We're going to take a quick break. We want to talk about this next, a piece of amazing videotape right after this.
BROOKS: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, this is definitely the day of amazing videos, that's why we asked Mike Brooks to stick around. Let's look quickly at this Wisconsin State Trooper as he goes and rescues this woman who looks like is attempting suicide.
Talk about quick thinking.
BROOKS: Well, we see the look from his onboard video. He pulls her -- she pulls over on the side of the bridge -- 200 feet above the Fox River. She jumps out and goes right over.
He grabs her right by the arm. There happened to be a bridge support. You can see the cable there, but he's up off of his feet. And he almost -- he almost went over with her.
And you know, they tell you as a police officer, yes, try to save the life, but don't -- if someone is trying to commit suicide, don't go with them over the edge. He almost did here, and the other two deputies came over and were able to bring her back. She was fighting him, though, Kyra. She had hold of the support.
PHILLIPS: She tried to pull away.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And she was apparently suffering from postpartum depression, but that trooper and the other two deputies are true heroes. That's for sure.
PHILLIPS: I'm going to tell you what, once she has medication for that postpartum depression, she's probably going to be very, very thankful that that trooper saved her life.
BROOKS: Absolutely, definitely.
PHILLIPS: All right, Mike Brooks, thanks so much.
BROOKS: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, we are going to take a quick -- no, we're going to move on to business. Rhonda Schaffler, live from the New York Stock Exchange with the new lighting, the new background. Hi, Rhonda.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Kyra. Good to see you once again. Got a story for you that is definitely and most literally ruffling some feathers.
A video obtained from an animal rights group shows slaughterhouse workers at a KFC supplier jumping on live chickens and throwing these animals against a wall.
The tape was reportedly shot by an undercover investigator for the group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. This occurred at a Pilgrim's Pride Plant in West Virginia. Pilgrim's Pride is the number two poultry processor in the nation.
The company responded by saying it was appalled at the treatment of these animals at its facility and would fire any of the wrongdoers -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Rhonda. Let's talk about this big merger in the music industry?
SCHAFFLER: That's right. European Union approving a merger between the music division of Sony and BMG. The deal is worth $6.2 billion, and this leaves just three other major music companies, Universal, Warner Music, and EMI.
Music labels had to consolidate recently because sales have declined. The companies blame online piracy for that.
As for what's happening here on Wall Street, blue chips making modest gains as investors await Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan's testimony on Capitol Hill. The Dow is up close to 19 points, and the Nasdaq is up 1%.
That's it from Wall Street. Coming up later in the hour, gas prices are on the rise, but gas stations may be victims, too. I'll have that story when LIVE FROM continues right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired July 20, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Stuffing secrets in his socks? Terror documents removed, but a former national security advisor says it was a mistake.
A bulldozer and a bullet end a tense hostage drama. The inside story behind these amazing pictures.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty-five years ago, the pictures weren't so amazing; they were kind of grainy and black and white.
What was interesting and amazing was where they came from: the moon. We'll tell you about an important anniversary in space on LIVE FROM -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Miles. And check out this creature. Have you ever seen one of these wandering in your backyard? Mystery animal caught on tape.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour: Sloppy or sinister, or something in between? Former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger says he didn't mean to smuggle sensitive documents pertaining to the Clinton-era war on terror from the National Archives.
A criminal investigation is now underway, and at least one document is still unaccounted for. Berger says he accidentally discarded a few papers, but never withheld anything from the 9/11 Commission, at whose behest he was digging through files.
CNN's Bob Franken is on the paper chase in Washington -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a very serious, serious matter. Mishandling intelligence by people authorized to -- to get access to it is considered very serious. Serious enough that the FBI came to Sandy Berger's home in February with a warrant to search for the missing documents.
Now, Berger is the former national security advisor for President Clinton, also an advisor to the Kerry campaign, as the Bush campaign has been pointing out repeatedly.
Berger is -- says that he made a mistake, that he had taken notes from the archives as he had been researching the National Archives for presentations to the 9/11 Commission.
He had done it in the summer and fall. After the fall, the archives knew that some of the documents were missing. Berger says that he accidentally discarded some of the documents and was very sloppy.
He says, "I deeply regret the sloppiness involved but had no intention of withholding documents from the Commission and, to the contrary, to my knowledge every document requested by the Commission from the Clinton administration was produced."
Now, the deputy attorney general, assistant attorney general, at a news conference today talked about just how serious this is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: As a general matter, we take issues of classified information very, very seriously. And as you know, we have prosecuted or sought administrative sanctions against any number of people throughout the years for mishandling of classified information. So, it's our lifeblood, those secrets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: This has a very strong political side to it, too, in addition to the legal side.
The Republican House Speaker, Dennis Hastert, put out a statement in which he said -- or asked -- rather, "Did these documents detail simple negligence or did they contain something more sinister? Was this a bungled attempt to rewrite history and keep critical information from the 9/11 Commission and potentially put their report under a cloud?"
He goes on to say, "Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do."
Now, that is pretty much the kind of statement that the Republican side wants put out -- remember this is an election year. The Democratic side has a different point of view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: ... deserves certainly the benefit of the doubt here. He's cooperating, but I do think the timing is very curious, given this has been underway now for this long. Somebody leaked it, obviously with an intent, I think, to do damage to Mr. Berger, and I think that's unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now, we have the further charge that Berger was seen -- this is according to three law enforcement sources talking to CNN's Justice Department correspondent Kelli Arena -- who said they saw him, or that he had been seen putting documents in his socks.
And that brought a statement from Joe Lockhart, the former White House press secretary, speaking on behalf of Berger and saying, "Sandy Berger categorically denies that he ever took documents and stuffed them in his socks. That is absurd. And anyone who says that is interested in something other than the truth."
So, we have documents, Kyra, that are classified higher than the legendary Q classification. These are called code documents, code- word documents, the highest classification.
Already a strange story -- and now the socks -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: You mention the strange story, you mention the socks. You also mention the timing, Bob.
I think it's important we should point out that indeed Mr. Berger is an informal advisor to John Kerry and to that camp, so you do wonder about the timing here.
Is that a concern?
FRANKEN: Well, it is something that has been brought up. The Bush campaign has, as I said, made an effort to make sure that it is reported that he is an advisor to the Kerry campaign. I'm not quite sure the difference between formal and informal. Perhaps they're on a first name basis.
But the other bit of timing is the fact that in just a couple of days the 9/11 Commission is about to put out a report that is expected to be quite critical of this administration, as well as perhaps the previous administration. And there have been some on the Democratic side who are suggesting that this was leaked now to draw attention away from that.
An administration source says there is, quote, "absolutely no truth to that" -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: You talk about informal -- I think it's the fact that he's not paid. Bob Franken, thanks so much.
Well, rethinking intelligence. Does the U.S. need one person at the helm of a dozen plus agencies and offices currently gathering information for the White House and Pentagon?
Well, the 9/11 Commission is expected, rather, to answer yes until the Senate Intelligence Committee looks into that question for itself. It's hearing starts at 2:30 p.m. Eastern. We'll keep an ear out for updates.
Well, it may never get off the ground, but U.S. war planners are working on their own version of a big bang theory. CNN's Barbara Starr has the explosive details -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Kyra, it is just an idea on paper right now, but the Air Force is looking at ideas for a new 30,000-pound bomb.
This would be one of the largest weapons ever developed. A 30,000-pound bomb that would be used to attack underground or deeply buried targets would be deployed off a B-2 or B-52 bomber.
It's called the Massive Ordinance Penetrator, already fondly referred to as Big Blue around the Pentagon.
Now, this would be about six times larger than the current penetrating weapon, which is just a puny little 5,000 pounder. You see it here.
But the Air Force found out after it went to Iraq and it looked at some of the bomb sites that they had attacked that some of the underground bunkers in Iraq had not even been fully destroyed with these underground-attacking weapons, so they decided that they need something much larger.
And indeed, one of their concerns is having the future military capability to attack targets, underground targets, in North Korea, if it ever came to that.
But this is really going to be quite a design challenge, because when you just think of it, 30,000 pounds on the B-2 bomber, for example, they'd have to put one bomb under each wing, essentially, so the plane could actually get off the ground. That's 60,000 pounds right there.
And of course, they would eventually have to drop both weapons, because if you only drop 30,000 pounds off one side of the plane, you would probably lose stability in flight.
So, a lot of technical challenges to overcome, but an interesting fact of history -- 30,000 pounds isn't the largest bomb ever built. During the Cold War, during the 1950s, the U.S. had a 44,000-pound bomb, but it was very inaccurate and, by all accounts, never used -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr live from the Pentagon.
Well, 35 years ago today, NASA gave the world's dreamers and schemers a ready-made rationale for anything. You've said it yourself, they can put a man on the moon, so why can't they -- fill in the blank.
Men arrived on the moon July 20, 1969 on board the Eagle Lunar Module from Apollo 11. Of course, our Miles O'Brien is marking the big day at the National Air & Space Museum in Washington.
I guess you could say he's in heaven. Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Hello. Tranquility Base here. Good to see you, Kyra.
Yes, you know, as they say, if they can put a man on the moon, why can't we -- put a man on the moon?
Because that has been the talk of late as NASA celebrates this 35th anniversary of the first moon walk, July 20th, 1969. There's a lot of talk about a return to the moon, but a different kind of return, not to leave footprints and plant flags, necessarily, but as a way station for perhaps something more audacious -- a piloted flight, perhaps, to Mars. Maybe 30 years from now, possibly?
The question is: Will there be the funding and the initiative and the desire to do all that? We're in the very early stages of this. The president just announced this initiative in mid-January. Hasn't said a peep about it since.
It remains to be seen whether, in fact, this will come to pass but nevertheless on this anniversary it's an opportunity to look back, as well.
Allan Needell makes that his mission in life. He is in charge of all of space history here at the Air & Space Museum.
Good to have you with us, Allan, and it's such a remarkable collection -- for those of you haven't been here, you've got to come visit.
But we're standing in front of one of the more notable ones. This is a lunar module. Obviously, this is not one that went to the moon; the ones that went to the moon ultimately were destroyed as they de-orbited. But this one was designed to be tested in the orbit of earth. Never had to be flown.
But when you look at it, the thing that always strikes me is it looks like it was just kind of hammered together with loose tin and the shape is so odd -- how can it possibly fly?
ALLAN NEEDELL, SPACE HISTORY CURATOR: Well, most of the design of the aircraft is, of course, designed for aerodynamics for a smooth flight through the atmosphere.
This is one of the only spacecraft -- or the only spacecraft, which is really never designed to fly in the atmosphere at all. So, streamlining, air control, wings...
O'BRIEN: Don't need it.
NEEDELL: ... don't need it -- don't need it.
O'BRIEN: All those smooth shapes we're used to, forget about it. What's interesting up here, you see those nozzle-type things -- which are the thrusters, which allow it to maintain its...
NEEDELL: Altitude and direction while it's flying.
O'BRIEN: ... altitude. But it's got like a cape beneath it. What is that for? What does that cape do kind of there?
NEEDELL: The last thing you want to do when you're out in the vacuum of space is take exhaust from an engine and have it impact on this foil.
This foil doesn't do very well in the air, but it protected it from meteorites and from the ultraviolet radiations from the sun. And so, a simple solution: How do you keep the foil from getting ripped off by the exhaust? Well, you put a little curtain there to deflect the exhaust.
O'BRIEN: You know, it almost seems a bit ad hoc, but a lot of that really, in retrospect, seems that way, because they were in a hurry to do this -- efficiently but do it properly, as well.
NEEDELL: That's right, and it worked.
O'BRIEN: Now, over here you can see the ladder -- I don't know if you can see the ladder. And this is the mannequin showing -- in this case it would be Buzz Aldrin coming down. That's -- you know, when Neil Armstrong did it, he said that was one small step for a man -- it still looks like a pretty big step, doesn't it?
NEEDELL: The advantage is, is getting back up. It's only one- sixth gravity, so you can jump probably a lot farther than you could on the -- on the earth.
O'BRIEN: So, you would weigh one-sixth of your weight now. This, as it appears here, it really gives you a sense of the fragility of what they accomplished.
I'm taken aback by how they pulled it off. A quarter million miles away from Earth, to land this thing successfully and then take it back off. Do you think much about that as you...
NEEDELL: Well, I think about being up there and realizing when you want to leave, you get in that upper stage, the bottom part is your launch pad and that engine there has to work.
I mean, there's no second chance. It's what you call no-failure mode is acceptable on that one. And so, it's a very, very special engine, which was designed to be completely reliable; there's barely no way -- basically no way it could have failed.
O'BRIEN: No way it could have failed. As a matter of fact, I believe Richard Nixon at the time wrote -- just in case, he wrote a letter, a speech, if you will to the nation...
NEEDELL: That's right, a speechwriter...
O'BRIEN: Had his speechwriters do it, you know, on the event that they were stuck on the surface of the moon, a poignant speech that, of course, never had to be delivered because it was successful.
Allan Needell, thank you very much. Just a small part of what's here.
There's many suits and toothbrushes and food that they ate along the way. And then at their new facility, the Udvar Hazy facility near Dulles Airport, they actually have the -- well it's a trailer, it's a glorified trailer that was the containment facility, the astronauts stayed in it for -- how long after the flight? More than a week, right?
NEEDELL: Yes, until they got back to the Houston to be -- basically two weeks in confinement. O'BRIEN: They were quarantined afterwards, Kyra, because they were concerned they might have picked up some sort of alien bug. That also didn't happen.
PHILLIPS: Next segment, no aliens. All right, very good. We'll look forward to the next hit. Thanks so much Miles.
Well, when the hostage taker fired bullets, police brought in the bulldozer. What happened next? Details ahead on LIVE FROM.
And caught on tape: a bridge jumper and a trooper on his toes. That rescue, straight ahead.
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DON GORSKE, BIG MAC RECORD-HOLDER: I plan on eating Big Macs until I probably die.
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PHILLIPS: Big Mac attack. He's up to 20,000 and counting. We're holding the special sauce. Later on LIVE FROM.
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PHILLIPS: Well, let's head farther north. Testimony has resumed in the Scott Peterson murder trial. On the stand today is a detective who admitted that police questioned, but never eliminated, certain people in the case.
CNN's Rusty Dornin covering the trial in Redwood City. Hi, Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, detective Ray Coyle was the one charged with the task of investigating some 300 parolees and sex offenders in the Laci Peterson case.
He went through about 10 yesterday, Mark Geragos doing the cross- examination, admitting that they didn't follow up with many of these. Now today, Geragos has been questioning and in detail on more than 20 sex offenders about the ones that could not confirm their alibis.
For example, one of them said that he was at his mother's on Christmas Eve the night Laci Peterson disappeared. They called the mother; she could not confirm his alibi. She said that he wasn't anywhere around. But police did not follow up on that.
Now, as he goes through each one of these offenders and the fact that police either didn't follow up or didn't make contact with them, he asks the question did that constitute a complete investigation, at which point Detective Coyle says yes.
Well, that does drive home the point to the jury -- the defense's attempt that -- to show that the prosecution, you know, is not following up on other suspects -- that other people could have killed Laci Peterson.
Coyle is still on the stand. They've apparently finished with the sex offender reports that are on now to the search on the bay. Another police witness is expected on the stand this afternoon.
Now, we are now hearing from sources that Amber Frey, who was expected to testify next week, in fact will not testify until some time after that. We are not sure of the time, but the court will not -- is actually taking a dark day next Wednesday, and then on Thursday the jury will not be coming in because they will be discussing Mark Geragos' request for a mistrial -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Rusty Dornin, live from Redwood City, thank you.
Other news from across America. Now in Florida, state wildlife officials are being urged not to wear their uniforms.
The agency has been getting a rash of death threats after an escaped tiger was shot to death last week. Wildlife officers say Bobo lunged at them as they tried to capture him, but the tiger's owner and many others have called the shooting murder.
In Hampton, New Hampshire, it's been almost four months since 85- year-old Alice Keyho was found dead in her sister's home. Among many injuries, the elderly woman had 22 broken ribs. Well, Helen Garland, aged 74, told police Alice had fallen down the stairs.
But days later, she was arraigned on assault charges. Police quoted Helen saying she, quote, "might have given her a boot as I walked by her with the side of my foot." Now, the death has been ruled a homicide, and prosecutors are filing additional charges against Helen Garland.
In custody and out of harm's way: A harrowing 13 hour stand-off comes to a dramatic end in South Carolina as police bulldoze part of a convenient store to capture a suspect and free an employee he'd taken hostage.
Our Mike Brooks, who is a former Washington police detective and hostage negotiator, joins us to talk about this and also another amazing rescue. Why don't we first take our viewers through the scenario and what happened.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This was unbelievable scenario. And the Spartanburg Police -- I spoke with them today, and they kind of walked me through exactly what happened. I had a lot of questions, but from what I've seen in my 22 years of tactical experience, as well as hostage negotiation, I think they did a pretty, pretty good job.
PHILLIPS: All right let's take a look at the tape -- that is if we have the tape. Are we good to go on the tape? Here we go.
BROOKS: It all started with a traffic stop. They pulled the guy over, he had expired tags, and he got out. He was acting suspicious. They told him to put his hands on the trunk. He took off running.
He ran into the convenience store and -- 38-year-old Jimmy Johnson. Then he had an assault gun as he was -- they were chasing him. He ran inside, he grabbed the owner, there was a customer coming out. He was -- that apparently was the only customer, went inside, grabbed the owner, Sara Patel and held her hostage for almost 13 hours.
Now, it was a -- it was a tense standoff. They brought in a robot, which we see here. They initially used two cell phones, but the cell phones -- the batteries ran down after a certain amount of hours...
PHILLIPS: And let's set up the communications. You try to negotiate first.
BROOKS: Right. Exactly. You try to negotiate, 95 percent of all hostage situations are -- are taken care of through negotiation. But they used the robot, he took the -- the robot took the phone up.
The battery ran down; they used -- negotiators from the Spartanburg police and the FBI.
Here we see Ms. Patel leaning out and grabbing one of the phones. Now they locked the front door. There was just a little space that he -- she was able to get though here to open the door and let her grab the phone.
But officers weren't able to get inside, because they had the two locked glass doors. Then, they had a Plexiglas screen right behind that with wire mesh so it was impossible, almost impossible to get in there after this and they knew he had a gun.
They said he wasn't' really demanding anything. In fact, the captain, Captain Hardy, told me that at one point they thought it might be that he might be trying to set himself up for suicide by cop -- victim precipitated homicide.
And we see here in the front of the store, they used the robot again. After 13 hours, he fired 10 rounds out through the front door and he threatened to kill the hostage. This is when they decided that they had to do emergency assault.
They used the robot to come up as a diversion in front of the store to pound on the front door. Then they brought in a bulldozer. And we'll see here in just a short time, you'll see the bulldozer take the section of the wall out. Now, they weren't able to see in because of supplies, and they thought that they had run into the cooler.
So, then they took another section of the wall out, and then you see Jimmy Johnson come with Ms. Patel -- you see her emerge through the rubble. Here the officers are trying to breach just the front door, but then right after that, they were confronted with a Plexiglas wall.
PHILLIPS: Now normally to distract someone like this, like the hostage taker, you use a flash-bang to try to throw things off, but they really couldn't see where he was. Is that why they moved to the bulldozer?
BROOKS: It's exactly right, and then we see him here emerge with the hostage, with the gun in his right hand. Then the snipers, they had already had the green light. They shot him, they were attempting to shoot him actually in the head -- he slipped, and the police told me that he was shot in the shoulder. The hostage was then able to escape from him.
The police brought her over. She was safe. We see her running out the rubble right now. Police encouraging her to come on, keep running, keep running to them.
And then, you'll see they'll -- you'll see a couple of flashes -- those are stun grenades -- flash-bangs, if you will -- that are concussion grenades. They disorient the person who is inside with sound an light, and they were able to go in and take him into custody.
Here you see the officers throwing his -- the flash-bangs and the sound and the light, and they were able to go in and apprehend him. But just very, very dangerous situation.
Hostage situations, Kyra, they can -- they can go from good to bad and sometimes to worse. Here, they were able to get the hostage out. No one was killed, no officers were injured, that was a successful mission.
PHILLIPS: All right, stick around. We're going to take a quick break. We want to talk about this next, a piece of amazing videotape right after this.
BROOKS: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: We'll be right back.
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PHILLIPS: Well, this is definitely the day of amazing videos, that's why we asked Mike Brooks to stick around. Let's look quickly at this Wisconsin State Trooper as he goes and rescues this woman who looks like is attempting suicide.
Talk about quick thinking.
BROOKS: Well, we see the look from his onboard video. He pulls her -- she pulls over on the side of the bridge -- 200 feet above the Fox River. She jumps out and goes right over.
He grabs her right by the arm. There happened to be a bridge support. You can see the cable there, but he's up off of his feet. And he almost -- he almost went over with her.
And you know, they tell you as a police officer, yes, try to save the life, but don't -- if someone is trying to commit suicide, don't go with them over the edge. He almost did here, and the other two deputies came over and were able to bring her back. She was fighting him, though, Kyra. She had hold of the support.
PHILLIPS: She tried to pull away.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And she was apparently suffering from postpartum depression, but that trooper and the other two deputies are true heroes. That's for sure.
PHILLIPS: I'm going to tell you what, once she has medication for that postpartum depression, she's probably going to be very, very thankful that that trooper saved her life.
BROOKS: Absolutely, definitely.
PHILLIPS: All right, Mike Brooks, thanks so much.
BROOKS: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, we are going to take a quick -- no, we're going to move on to business. Rhonda Schaffler, live from the New York Stock Exchange with the new lighting, the new background. Hi, Rhonda.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Kyra. Good to see you once again. Got a story for you that is definitely and most literally ruffling some feathers.
A video obtained from an animal rights group shows slaughterhouse workers at a KFC supplier jumping on live chickens and throwing these animals against a wall.
The tape was reportedly shot by an undercover investigator for the group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. This occurred at a Pilgrim's Pride Plant in West Virginia. Pilgrim's Pride is the number two poultry processor in the nation.
The company responded by saying it was appalled at the treatment of these animals at its facility and would fire any of the wrongdoers -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Rhonda. Let's talk about this big merger in the music industry?
SCHAFFLER: That's right. European Union approving a merger between the music division of Sony and BMG. The deal is worth $6.2 billion, and this leaves just three other major music companies, Universal, Warner Music, and EMI.
Music labels had to consolidate recently because sales have declined. The companies blame online piracy for that.
As for what's happening here on Wall Street, blue chips making modest gains as investors await Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan's testimony on Capitol Hill. The Dow is up close to 19 points, and the Nasdaq is up 1%.
That's it from Wall Street. Coming up later in the hour, gas prices are on the rise, but gas stations may be victims, too. I'll have that story when LIVE FROM continues right after this break.
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