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Egypt Denies Ransom For Hostage Allegation; Hostage-Taking Tactics Of The Rising Insurgency; Democratic Nation Convention Day Two; Planned Parenthood Sells Controversial T-shirts; Google's IPO.
Aired July 27, 2004 - 12:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Over-the-top T-shirt or abortion pride? Planned Parenthood President Gloria Feldt joins us live.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, hello everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
PHILLIPS: We begin this hour with the former captive and the purported quid pro quo. Barely a week after the Philippines pulled soldiers out of Iraq to win freedom for a kidnapped truck driver, the government of Egypt is denying that it paid cash to free a diplomat.
But sources in Baghdad tell CNN a ransom was paid. Hundreds of thousands of dollars to a group called "The Lions of God Brigade."
Our coverage begins with CNN's Matthew Chance. He's in Baghdad -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Kyra.
Indeed, freedom for this Egyptian diplomat but at what price? Well, according to security sources that we've spoken to here in Baghdad, that price came at hundreds of thousands of U.S. dollars.
Now, the Egyptian government denies it paid any ransom, but the sources, both security sources and Iraqi sources, that we've spoken to here say that cash was handed over to this previously unknown group calling themselves "The Lions of God Brigade," opening a lot of questions about the nature of the negotiations that have been taking place between these governments, between -- through various intermediaries, and these hitherto unknown hostage-takers.
The center of the concern, of course, is what message does this send, not just to the hostage-takers who will undoubtedly, according to the security experts we've spoken to, take this as encouragement and when they see this access to money, actually go ahead and perhaps take more hostages, but also what message does it send about the kind of support governments like Egypt are giving to the interim Iraqi government that has been calling on all the surrounding countries, all the countries with workers and personnel in Iraq, not about the demands of these kidnappers -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Matthew Chance live from Baghdad. Thank you. O'BRIEN: From Jordan this hour, word that a construction company that contracts for the U.S. military is leaving Iraq to save the lives of two kidnapped employees. Those men were taken hostage Monday by a group called the Mujahedeen Corps, which threatened to kill them, by Thursday.
Earlier, the company's chief executive told CNN the kidnapping may have been spurred by business and/or tribal rivalries. Hostage taking along with car bombing, assassinations, remains a favored tactic of the insurgency in Iraq. The question is how to respond or not to respond and over the long run how effective might that tactic be?
CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson here with more. Ken, thanks for being with us.
First of all, the tactic has what appears to be fairly clear aims. Why don't we just state that, though, so we're quite clear on what you think the insurgency is all about with this hostage-taking tactic?
KEN ROBINSON, MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's a tactic that's designed to go after a operational objective, which is tied to their strategic objective.
A tactic is grab anybody who supports anything that has to do with infrastructure, the coalition, governance, and then the operational tactic is to do it all over the country with the strategic objective of going after the underbelly of the United States' ability to create Iraqi governance and stability.
They want a failed state in Iraq.
O'BRIEN: All right, but you say they're going after the U.S. underbelly, your term. The question is, though, why do they seem to be targeting members of this coalition that the U.S. has in Iraq.
ROBINSON: Because they know they can't -- they don't have the ability to go after the United States symmetrically. We'll force on force, but they know that if they go after anyone who has any role in supporting the ability to rebuild infrastructure, the ability to get things back to normal, to keep power on, to keep water and food being delivered. Anything that has to do with supporting the regime or the new government, then it's effective.
Their timeline is not the same as the United States, their timeline is a long one, and they're trying to erode the ability to govern effectively.
O'BRIEN: The official policy of the United States is not to negotiate with people who take hostages. Is that possibly why these hostage takers have singled out citizens of other countries?
ROBINSON: They're easier, that's correct. It's a softer target. They're easier to find, they're not secured in the same way. Their movements aren't covered by security forces the same as coalition and the same as senior Iraqi government officials. And so, yes, it's an easier target and remember it's also information operations.
They're also trying to affect the politics of the host countries domestic policy and also those of the countries that they kidnapped members from like the government of Egypt.
O'BRIEN: The strategy is to, as you say, create a failed state and to force the U.S. out of Iraq. So far, does this tactic support that strategy?
ROBINSON: I think it does, over the long term, because what will happen is if you've got no one who can come and drive the truck, if no one can deliver the fuel, if no one can keep the oil flowing, if there's no one there to be a judge to adjudicate something, if there's no one there to lead, then it causes chaos and then the vacuum will occur that they're looking for and the friction between the different tribal groups.
O'BRIEN: All right, well, I guess one question would be then if the strategy is to create this failed state, get the U.S. out, presumably money is not the motivation, except for the fact that money can enable further attacks, I suppose.
ROBINSON: Well, you know, Matthew Chance and I were talking earlier, and he hit on something that he's seen on the street there in Baghdad, which I agree with and that is we saw this before -- we saw it in Chechnya, we've seen it in Columbia -- and that is criminal organizations which may come up and -- and fit a niche for a cottage industry of kidnapping to support the groups, the foreign terrorist organizations and others.
And they are -- their objectives merge, the criminal organizations objective is let's -- let's make money, the foreign terrorist organizations are strategies we just talked about and sometimes you see a -- a symbiotic relationship develop between them in these areas where there's instability.
O'BRIEN: An unholy alliance, indeed. Ken Robinson, thank you very much. Appreciate your time, as always.
Financing terror said to be at the heart of a grand jury indictment naming seven people linked to a big name Islamic charity.
Law enforcement sources are telling CNN charges handed up in Dallas center on the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development. It's an organization raided and all but shut down in 2002. Authorities have long claimed Holy Land was a veiled front for the Palestinian terror group Hamas.
We hope to learn more when Attorney General John Ashcroft holds a news conference. That is scheduled for 2:30 Eastern time. CNN will bring that to you live about an hour and 20 minutes from now.
PHILLIPS: All the buzz in Boston on day two of the Democratic Convention -- how about those Clintons? The nation's last Democratic president and a possible future presidential contender wowed the crowd at the FleetCenter, but tonight belongs to Obama. And if you're saying Obama who? Well, there may be quite a few delegates who aren't sure either, but I'll tell you one person who knows about him -- Bob Franken. He's live from Boston -- hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's interesting. He is -- he is somebody who is considered the rising star here, but, there are actually some stars that have already risen who are probably going to make the headlines this evening.
After a night last night where some past stars stole the show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): A reminder, Democrats, your nominee will be John Kerry. Try and remember, it's not Bill Clinton. He was just there to help Kerry.
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After three conventions as a candidate or a president, tonight I come to you as a citizen, returning to the role that I have played for most of my life -- as a foot soldier in our fight for the future, as we nominate in Boston a true New England patriot for president.
FRANKEN: He's the former president, of course, but that other Clinton was there, too with all the talk of her trying to become a future president.
But that's for another night.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: We need a new commander in chief named John Kerry. I've been saying for many months now: John Kerry is a serious man for a serious job at a serious time in our country's history.
FRANKEN: The Democrats have done something very unusual this year: They've stopped bickering, united in the common cause of beating George W. Bush. Cheering again for the man they feel beat him last time.
AL GORE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The first lesson is this: take it from me, every vote counts.
FRANKEN: The tedious mass of security outside did nothing to dampen the Democrats enthusiasm inside the FleetCenter. And tonight, the pep rally continues. Tonight, Howard Dean speaks once again of the fight against President Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (on camera): And we are now talking about an evening -- this is sort of the evening in between -- the people are going to -- are going to include a variety of speakers like Senator Edward Kennedy -- as we said, Howard Dean.
It's going to be an action-packed evening as we get ready for the candidates tomorrow -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken live from Boston, thank you.
And if you're away from your TV, you can still hear the DNC coverage. I'll be anchoring for CNN Radio, 400 affiliates in the U.S. and overseas, also. You can log onto cnn.com to hear and see all the prime-time action on the CNN radio Web stream.
O'BRIEN: Nice picture there, Kyra.
Killer whale on the attack: A trainer slammed underwater repeatedly, and this is not part of the act. The rest of the whale tale is coming up.
The missing Utah woman: Investigators focus on an upsetting phone call she reportedly received the day before she disappeared.
And rallying the party faithful: Former President Clinton proves he still has it, but did he get his facts straight at the convention? Was the speech effective? We'll talk about it.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: News across America now. Witnesses testifying in public for the first time in the Michael Jackson child molestation case. Taking the stand today: detectives who raided Jackson's private investigator's office.
The judge is also considering a motion from the pop star's attorneys to delay the start of the trial.
The Supreme Court is upholding a ban in the Kobe Bryant case, at least for now. Justice Stephen Breyer denied an appeal that would have allowed the media to publish transcripts leaked in the rape case.
But Breyer says its possible that trial could release them itself. Now he's allowing some of the accusers sexual history to be used at trial.
Jurors in the Scott Peterson murder case will look at the fishing boat today that Peterson claimed he took out the day his wife went missing. Yesterday, a fisherman placed doubt on Peterson's alibi.
O'BRIEN: New developments in the search for a missing Utah woman. Lori Hacking's family has called off the search, at least for now. This, after reports Hacking may have found out about her husband's lies just before she disappeared.
CNN's Kimberly Osias is joining us with the very latest from Salt Lake City -- Kimberly.
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well, the family of Lori and Mark Hacking say they've called off the search not because they have lost hope, but rather because they are concerned about volunteer safety.
This is the first time in eight days this command center has been this empty. They say that they're really taking a different tactic in search efforts; they're taking a more technical approach. They hope to use ATVs and helicopters, resuming again tomorrow.
Last evening, police revisited a landfill searching again in the same area for clues but for the first time under the cloud of darkness. They say this actually will enable the dogs to work longer in the cooler climate.
Family spokesperson said that is not, however -- that did not have anything to do with why they called off the search. The Hacking family has hired a local criminal attorney. His name is Gil Athay. He was retained by the family on Thursday evening.
Since then, Mr. Athay says he has been to visit Mark Hacking at the psychiatric facility where he has been every day. Mark Hacking is not considered a suspect in the case; however, he is considered a person of interest.
Police do say he is the only person of interest in this case. No charges have been filed yet.
Yesterday, crime technicians did remove several bottles and swabbed the Dumpster outside the area where Mark Hacking was working.
Reports have surfaced that Lori Hacking may have been tipped off as early as Friday that her husband's lies were unraveling and that, in fact, he had not been admitted, perhaps, to the University of North Carolina.
Perhaps they believe that call did come from UNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA SUGDEN, LORI HACKING'S CO-WORKER: I saw her come across the skywalk and I said, "Hey, look there's -- there's Lori."
And Jen said, "Wow, it looks like she's crying," and I said, "Yeah." So, she came out the skywalk and I go, "Hey, Lori. What's up?"
And she usually talks to me because we vent about everything all the time. And she just said nothing, and she walked away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: Police classify this as a missing person case still under very suspicious circumstances.
They are waiting for forensics test results to come back. That could take weeks, but I am told that the earliest that could come back and could come back -- I emphasize -- that would be Friday.
Now, if an arrest is made and if it is made to Mark Hacking, the fact that he's in a psychiatric facility would have no bearing on that arrest -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Kimberly, why -- why weeks on this forensic information? Presumably this is top priority stuff at the lab, wherever it may be.
OSIAS: Yes, they said that they really want to be very, very careful, especially in a high-profile case of this nature, that they're not jumping to conclusions, really going back over everything with a fine-tooth comb.
I mean, obviously, there is what's called a quick test that can bring things back very, very quickly but perhaps they are looking at sort of that longer test that can take much longer, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Kimberly -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: The killer whale is back at work after a scare at Sea World. Ky was performing at Sea World in San Antonio, Texas Friday when he just began thrashing around and repeatedly slamming his trainer underwater.
Take a look at this video. Trainer Steve Aibel wasn't hurt, but he was a bit startled. Next hour, he's going to join us to talk about what happened and what might have set Ky off.
O'BRIEN: Some people wear their hearts on their sleeve, but Planned Parenthood thinks some women will want to wear this message on their chest. It says there "I had an abortion." We'll talk about that controversial T-shirt after a break.
New findings on a popular painkiller raise concern about whether you should take it long-term. We're checking out the medicine cabinet a little later on LIVE FROM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, as you know, Planned Parenthood is no stranger to controversy, but has the organization gone a bit too far in its latest venture?
Selling T-shirts on the Web now that say "I had an abortion." Here with us now, Gloria Feldt, the president of Planned Parenthood.
Ms. Feldt joins us live from Boston, where she spoke last night at the DNC and how did that go, Gloria?
GLORIA FELDT, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Oh, very well, thank you. It was a pleasure to be able to talk to people, in fact, about the importance of standing up for what we believe in, standing up for choice, which is not unrelated to our topic today.
PHILLIPS: Well, so, of course this T-shirt comes out, has abortion on the Web site the day that the DNC begins. Was there a -- maybe a -- purpose behind that, shall we say?
FELDT: No, actually the T-shirt in question was designed by an -- a writer in New York named Jennifer Baumgartner. It's not a Planned Parenthood product. But we did allow her to sell it on our Web site.
You know, the decision to have a child or not is one of the most profound and personal that any of us make.
Anti-choice zealots have spent many years trying to shame women for making the choice not to have a child at this particular point in time, and so I think there's a great value and affirmation in allowing women who choose to simply wear a shirt that -- that says you know I made this decision and I did it for good and moral reasons.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the shirts that are sold on your Web site. This is one of them, obviously, but a number of the other ones -- "Stop the War on Choice."
"Choice, Brought to You by Planned Parenthood."
"Choice on Earth."
So you see this T-shirt, "I had an abortion" -- it's very much in your face, it's very different from the other T-shirts you've sold.
Why go to that extreme?
FELDT: Well, again, this was -- this was another individual's project, and we felt that it was an appropriate kind of a message that some women might want to be able to use.
I personally am wearing my current favorite, which says, "Stop the War on Choice."
It's -- it's the name of a book that I recently wrote and the metaphor behind it is to talk about what we believe in, not to be ashamed.
Anti-choice zealots really want to make women go back to the days when they had to put a scarlet A on their head and I don't think that's right and -- and with the -- the current political climate, we're very much in danger of going back there through our policies as well as the social climate.
PHILLIPS: You talk about the scarlet A on the head and, you know, wearing this T-shirt "I had an abortion," a quote forming out from the National Right to Life committee, Olivia Gans, saying, "Having an abortion is a heartbreaking experience. It is not something to boast about."
Do you think it's good to boast about having an abortion?
FELDT: I think that even if it is a heartbreaking experience, and it is a very, very difficult and profound decision for women to make -- it shouldn't be something that they should be ashamed about. And unless we begin to tell our daughters and our sisters and our mothers about our own stories and our own personal experiences, we will lose our right to choose. We are only one judicial appointment away from completely losing our right to choose, and in many other ways access to reproductive healthcare of all kinds, family planning, medically accurate sex education are at great danger from the current administration's policies.
PHILLIPS: Well that's understandable...
FELDT: And that's why it's important to wear the shirt.
PHILLIPS: I totally understand what you're saying, what Planned Parenthood stands for and -- and the policies that you believe in.
But when it comes down to T-shirts like this, I'm just wondering is this trivializing an abortion, something that is a very hard decision to make, something that I thought was supposed to be very private and very sacred, it's a difficult thing to deal with.
I mean, Gloria, think of the T-shirt, you know, "Barbie is a lesbian." Remember when that came out? And it became a fad; it became something that all the teenagers wanted to wear.
I mean, can you just imagine all these teenagers that never even know what it's like to have an abortion or deal with that decision all of a sudden thinking oh this is rebellious let's order this and next thing you know they're wearing them on the streets of wherever.
FELDT: No -- yes, I -- Kyra I think that's a good question but I don't think that's the way it works. I think that women -- women have brains and hearts and consciousness' and they make these decisions very carefully and thoughtfully.
But it's important that women not be shamed and its important that young women, particularly as you're talking about understand that this could you could be faced with a situation and in fact women who have abortions are the same women who have babies.
It's not unusual, and it could be your mother, your daughter, you sister, your friend, yourself. And it simply is something not to be ashamed of.
PHILLIPS: I'm curious how many you've sold.
FELDT: I don't know. Again, I -- because these are not actually Planned Parenthood T-shirts, I really don't know the answer to that. But I have been told that since this controversy has erupted that she's had to see to it that she has a supply again.
PHILLIPS: I can imagine. Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood. Thanks for your time, Gloria.
FELDT: Thank you very much Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Miles?
O'BRIEN: Google seems to be back to normal today after yesterday's virus attack that left the site crippled for many users.
We told you about it here first on CNN LIVE FROM of course, but still a lot of talk about Google on Wall Street, of course. There's that little IPO thing they've got going on.
Mary Snow joining us, and gosh it just seems like the '90s there when they start talking about Google like there's some -- some real value there. What's the thought on Wall Street? Is this the beginning of another bubble?
MARY SNOW, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Well, yes, and who said hype went away, right?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
SNOW: You know, Miles, so far this is on track to be the eighth largest IPO in history and some on Wall Street are saying you might want to just take a second look if you plan to buy a share of Google -- well, actually, you can't buy one share, you're going to have to buy five at least.
That's part of the plan for the IPO. The company saying that it plans to sell nearly 25 million shares to the public.
It will be trading at the Nasdaq under the ticker symbol GOOG -- likely to happen sometime in the next few weeks and as far as how to get a piece of the action we found out yesterday that shares will be priced between $108 and $135.
Investors will be allowed to buy as few as five shares, and its all part of a Dutch auction process. What you need to do is go to a Web site; it's Google's Web site, ipo.google.com. Google saying it should be fully functional in the next few days.
Now once the auction opens, place bids through one of 28 brokers working with Google, but many Wall Street insiders are saying beware of the hype, and they're saying it is a steep price to pay for this IPO.
O'BRIEN: I should say -- I should say. You would think given the lessons we saw in the last few years. But you know, it's amazing once the herd gets rolling. All right, well nothing cheap about that deal. Five shares at more than 100 bucks a copy.
Let's talk about a blue-light special for a moment, shall we? Kmart.
SNOW: Yes, this is certainly a special on Wall Street today. This stock is soaring today. It's up more than $7 and that's about a ten percent gain.
The reason for the profit of the stock today, a Deutsche Bank report on retailers came out saying that the real estate on which Kmart owns stores is worth a lot more than the stock prices right now and that's really given that stock a boost. As for the rest of the markets, stocks solidly higher today as you see right there the Dow up 78 points and that's really mainly due to a surprise increase in consumer confidence.
Also, some solid earnings from companies like Verizon and that put the Dow up above that 10,000 mark. The Nasdaq Composite is adding nearly one percent.
And that is the latest from Wall Street. Still ahead, downloading music on the go. The Apple iTunes revolution moves into a new phase. I'll explain when LIVE FROM moves on right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired July 27, 2004 - 12:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Over-the-top T-shirt or abortion pride? Planned Parenthood President Gloria Feldt joins us live.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, hello everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
PHILLIPS: We begin this hour with the former captive and the purported quid pro quo. Barely a week after the Philippines pulled soldiers out of Iraq to win freedom for a kidnapped truck driver, the government of Egypt is denying that it paid cash to free a diplomat.
But sources in Baghdad tell CNN a ransom was paid. Hundreds of thousands of dollars to a group called "The Lions of God Brigade."
Our coverage begins with CNN's Matthew Chance. He's in Baghdad -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Kyra.
Indeed, freedom for this Egyptian diplomat but at what price? Well, according to security sources that we've spoken to here in Baghdad, that price came at hundreds of thousands of U.S. dollars.
Now, the Egyptian government denies it paid any ransom, but the sources, both security sources and Iraqi sources, that we've spoken to here say that cash was handed over to this previously unknown group calling themselves "The Lions of God Brigade," opening a lot of questions about the nature of the negotiations that have been taking place between these governments, between -- through various intermediaries, and these hitherto unknown hostage-takers.
The center of the concern, of course, is what message does this send, not just to the hostage-takers who will undoubtedly, according to the security experts we've spoken to, take this as encouragement and when they see this access to money, actually go ahead and perhaps take more hostages, but also what message does it send about the kind of support governments like Egypt are giving to the interim Iraqi government that has been calling on all the surrounding countries, all the countries with workers and personnel in Iraq, not about the demands of these kidnappers -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Matthew Chance live from Baghdad. Thank you. O'BRIEN: From Jordan this hour, word that a construction company that contracts for the U.S. military is leaving Iraq to save the lives of two kidnapped employees. Those men were taken hostage Monday by a group called the Mujahedeen Corps, which threatened to kill them, by Thursday.
Earlier, the company's chief executive told CNN the kidnapping may have been spurred by business and/or tribal rivalries. Hostage taking along with car bombing, assassinations, remains a favored tactic of the insurgency in Iraq. The question is how to respond or not to respond and over the long run how effective might that tactic be?
CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson here with more. Ken, thanks for being with us.
First of all, the tactic has what appears to be fairly clear aims. Why don't we just state that, though, so we're quite clear on what you think the insurgency is all about with this hostage-taking tactic?
KEN ROBINSON, MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's a tactic that's designed to go after a operational objective, which is tied to their strategic objective.
A tactic is grab anybody who supports anything that has to do with infrastructure, the coalition, governance, and then the operational tactic is to do it all over the country with the strategic objective of going after the underbelly of the United States' ability to create Iraqi governance and stability.
They want a failed state in Iraq.
O'BRIEN: All right, but you say they're going after the U.S. underbelly, your term. The question is, though, why do they seem to be targeting members of this coalition that the U.S. has in Iraq.
ROBINSON: Because they know they can't -- they don't have the ability to go after the United States symmetrically. We'll force on force, but they know that if they go after anyone who has any role in supporting the ability to rebuild infrastructure, the ability to get things back to normal, to keep power on, to keep water and food being delivered. Anything that has to do with supporting the regime or the new government, then it's effective.
Their timeline is not the same as the United States, their timeline is a long one, and they're trying to erode the ability to govern effectively.
O'BRIEN: The official policy of the United States is not to negotiate with people who take hostages. Is that possibly why these hostage takers have singled out citizens of other countries?
ROBINSON: They're easier, that's correct. It's a softer target. They're easier to find, they're not secured in the same way. Their movements aren't covered by security forces the same as coalition and the same as senior Iraqi government officials. And so, yes, it's an easier target and remember it's also information operations.
They're also trying to affect the politics of the host countries domestic policy and also those of the countries that they kidnapped members from like the government of Egypt.
O'BRIEN: The strategy is to, as you say, create a failed state and to force the U.S. out of Iraq. So far, does this tactic support that strategy?
ROBINSON: I think it does, over the long term, because what will happen is if you've got no one who can come and drive the truck, if no one can deliver the fuel, if no one can keep the oil flowing, if there's no one there to be a judge to adjudicate something, if there's no one there to lead, then it causes chaos and then the vacuum will occur that they're looking for and the friction between the different tribal groups.
O'BRIEN: All right, well, I guess one question would be then if the strategy is to create this failed state, get the U.S. out, presumably money is not the motivation, except for the fact that money can enable further attacks, I suppose.
ROBINSON: Well, you know, Matthew Chance and I were talking earlier, and he hit on something that he's seen on the street there in Baghdad, which I agree with and that is we saw this before -- we saw it in Chechnya, we've seen it in Columbia -- and that is criminal organizations which may come up and -- and fit a niche for a cottage industry of kidnapping to support the groups, the foreign terrorist organizations and others.
And they are -- their objectives merge, the criminal organizations objective is let's -- let's make money, the foreign terrorist organizations are strategies we just talked about and sometimes you see a -- a symbiotic relationship develop between them in these areas where there's instability.
O'BRIEN: An unholy alliance, indeed. Ken Robinson, thank you very much. Appreciate your time, as always.
Financing terror said to be at the heart of a grand jury indictment naming seven people linked to a big name Islamic charity.
Law enforcement sources are telling CNN charges handed up in Dallas center on the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development. It's an organization raided and all but shut down in 2002. Authorities have long claimed Holy Land was a veiled front for the Palestinian terror group Hamas.
We hope to learn more when Attorney General John Ashcroft holds a news conference. That is scheduled for 2:30 Eastern time. CNN will bring that to you live about an hour and 20 minutes from now.
PHILLIPS: All the buzz in Boston on day two of the Democratic Convention -- how about those Clintons? The nation's last Democratic president and a possible future presidential contender wowed the crowd at the FleetCenter, but tonight belongs to Obama. And if you're saying Obama who? Well, there may be quite a few delegates who aren't sure either, but I'll tell you one person who knows about him -- Bob Franken. He's live from Boston -- hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's interesting. He is -- he is somebody who is considered the rising star here, but, there are actually some stars that have already risen who are probably going to make the headlines this evening.
After a night last night where some past stars stole the show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): A reminder, Democrats, your nominee will be John Kerry. Try and remember, it's not Bill Clinton. He was just there to help Kerry.
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After three conventions as a candidate or a president, tonight I come to you as a citizen, returning to the role that I have played for most of my life -- as a foot soldier in our fight for the future, as we nominate in Boston a true New England patriot for president.
FRANKEN: He's the former president, of course, but that other Clinton was there, too with all the talk of her trying to become a future president.
But that's for another night.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: We need a new commander in chief named John Kerry. I've been saying for many months now: John Kerry is a serious man for a serious job at a serious time in our country's history.
FRANKEN: The Democrats have done something very unusual this year: They've stopped bickering, united in the common cause of beating George W. Bush. Cheering again for the man they feel beat him last time.
AL GORE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The first lesson is this: take it from me, every vote counts.
FRANKEN: The tedious mass of security outside did nothing to dampen the Democrats enthusiasm inside the FleetCenter. And tonight, the pep rally continues. Tonight, Howard Dean speaks once again of the fight against President Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (on camera): And we are now talking about an evening -- this is sort of the evening in between -- the people are going to -- are going to include a variety of speakers like Senator Edward Kennedy -- as we said, Howard Dean.
It's going to be an action-packed evening as we get ready for the candidates tomorrow -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken live from Boston, thank you.
And if you're away from your TV, you can still hear the DNC coverage. I'll be anchoring for CNN Radio, 400 affiliates in the U.S. and overseas, also. You can log onto cnn.com to hear and see all the prime-time action on the CNN radio Web stream.
O'BRIEN: Nice picture there, Kyra.
Killer whale on the attack: A trainer slammed underwater repeatedly, and this is not part of the act. The rest of the whale tale is coming up.
The missing Utah woman: Investigators focus on an upsetting phone call she reportedly received the day before she disappeared.
And rallying the party faithful: Former President Clinton proves he still has it, but did he get his facts straight at the convention? Was the speech effective? We'll talk about it.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
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PHILLIPS: News across America now. Witnesses testifying in public for the first time in the Michael Jackson child molestation case. Taking the stand today: detectives who raided Jackson's private investigator's office.
The judge is also considering a motion from the pop star's attorneys to delay the start of the trial.
The Supreme Court is upholding a ban in the Kobe Bryant case, at least for now. Justice Stephen Breyer denied an appeal that would have allowed the media to publish transcripts leaked in the rape case.
But Breyer says its possible that trial could release them itself. Now he's allowing some of the accusers sexual history to be used at trial.
Jurors in the Scott Peterson murder case will look at the fishing boat today that Peterson claimed he took out the day his wife went missing. Yesterday, a fisherman placed doubt on Peterson's alibi.
O'BRIEN: New developments in the search for a missing Utah woman. Lori Hacking's family has called off the search, at least for now. This, after reports Hacking may have found out about her husband's lies just before she disappeared.
CNN's Kimberly Osias is joining us with the very latest from Salt Lake City -- Kimberly.
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well, the family of Lori and Mark Hacking say they've called off the search not because they have lost hope, but rather because they are concerned about volunteer safety.
This is the first time in eight days this command center has been this empty. They say that they're really taking a different tactic in search efforts; they're taking a more technical approach. They hope to use ATVs and helicopters, resuming again tomorrow.
Last evening, police revisited a landfill searching again in the same area for clues but for the first time under the cloud of darkness. They say this actually will enable the dogs to work longer in the cooler climate.
Family spokesperson said that is not, however -- that did not have anything to do with why they called off the search. The Hacking family has hired a local criminal attorney. His name is Gil Athay. He was retained by the family on Thursday evening.
Since then, Mr. Athay says he has been to visit Mark Hacking at the psychiatric facility where he has been every day. Mark Hacking is not considered a suspect in the case; however, he is considered a person of interest.
Police do say he is the only person of interest in this case. No charges have been filed yet.
Yesterday, crime technicians did remove several bottles and swabbed the Dumpster outside the area where Mark Hacking was working.
Reports have surfaced that Lori Hacking may have been tipped off as early as Friday that her husband's lies were unraveling and that, in fact, he had not been admitted, perhaps, to the University of North Carolina.
Perhaps they believe that call did come from UNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA SUGDEN, LORI HACKING'S CO-WORKER: I saw her come across the skywalk and I said, "Hey, look there's -- there's Lori."
And Jen said, "Wow, it looks like she's crying," and I said, "Yeah." So, she came out the skywalk and I go, "Hey, Lori. What's up?"
And she usually talks to me because we vent about everything all the time. And she just said nothing, and she walked away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: Police classify this as a missing person case still under very suspicious circumstances.
They are waiting for forensics test results to come back. That could take weeks, but I am told that the earliest that could come back and could come back -- I emphasize -- that would be Friday.
Now, if an arrest is made and if it is made to Mark Hacking, the fact that he's in a psychiatric facility would have no bearing on that arrest -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Kimberly, why -- why weeks on this forensic information? Presumably this is top priority stuff at the lab, wherever it may be.
OSIAS: Yes, they said that they really want to be very, very careful, especially in a high-profile case of this nature, that they're not jumping to conclusions, really going back over everything with a fine-tooth comb.
I mean, obviously, there is what's called a quick test that can bring things back very, very quickly but perhaps they are looking at sort of that longer test that can take much longer, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Kimberly -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: The killer whale is back at work after a scare at Sea World. Ky was performing at Sea World in San Antonio, Texas Friday when he just began thrashing around and repeatedly slamming his trainer underwater.
Take a look at this video. Trainer Steve Aibel wasn't hurt, but he was a bit startled. Next hour, he's going to join us to talk about what happened and what might have set Ky off.
O'BRIEN: Some people wear their hearts on their sleeve, but Planned Parenthood thinks some women will want to wear this message on their chest. It says there "I had an abortion." We'll talk about that controversial T-shirt after a break.
New findings on a popular painkiller raise concern about whether you should take it long-term. We're checking out the medicine cabinet a little later on LIVE FROM. Stay with us.
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PHILLIPS: Well, as you know, Planned Parenthood is no stranger to controversy, but has the organization gone a bit too far in its latest venture?
Selling T-shirts on the Web now that say "I had an abortion." Here with us now, Gloria Feldt, the president of Planned Parenthood.
Ms. Feldt joins us live from Boston, where she spoke last night at the DNC and how did that go, Gloria?
GLORIA FELDT, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Oh, very well, thank you. It was a pleasure to be able to talk to people, in fact, about the importance of standing up for what we believe in, standing up for choice, which is not unrelated to our topic today.
PHILLIPS: Well, so, of course this T-shirt comes out, has abortion on the Web site the day that the DNC begins. Was there a -- maybe a -- purpose behind that, shall we say?
FELDT: No, actually the T-shirt in question was designed by an -- a writer in New York named Jennifer Baumgartner. It's not a Planned Parenthood product. But we did allow her to sell it on our Web site.
You know, the decision to have a child or not is one of the most profound and personal that any of us make.
Anti-choice zealots have spent many years trying to shame women for making the choice not to have a child at this particular point in time, and so I think there's a great value and affirmation in allowing women who choose to simply wear a shirt that -- that says you know I made this decision and I did it for good and moral reasons.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the shirts that are sold on your Web site. This is one of them, obviously, but a number of the other ones -- "Stop the War on Choice."
"Choice, Brought to You by Planned Parenthood."
"Choice on Earth."
So you see this T-shirt, "I had an abortion" -- it's very much in your face, it's very different from the other T-shirts you've sold.
Why go to that extreme?
FELDT: Well, again, this was -- this was another individual's project, and we felt that it was an appropriate kind of a message that some women might want to be able to use.
I personally am wearing my current favorite, which says, "Stop the War on Choice."
It's -- it's the name of a book that I recently wrote and the metaphor behind it is to talk about what we believe in, not to be ashamed.
Anti-choice zealots really want to make women go back to the days when they had to put a scarlet A on their head and I don't think that's right and -- and with the -- the current political climate, we're very much in danger of going back there through our policies as well as the social climate.
PHILLIPS: You talk about the scarlet A on the head and, you know, wearing this T-shirt "I had an abortion," a quote forming out from the National Right to Life committee, Olivia Gans, saying, "Having an abortion is a heartbreaking experience. It is not something to boast about."
Do you think it's good to boast about having an abortion?
FELDT: I think that even if it is a heartbreaking experience, and it is a very, very difficult and profound decision for women to make -- it shouldn't be something that they should be ashamed about. And unless we begin to tell our daughters and our sisters and our mothers about our own stories and our own personal experiences, we will lose our right to choose. We are only one judicial appointment away from completely losing our right to choose, and in many other ways access to reproductive healthcare of all kinds, family planning, medically accurate sex education are at great danger from the current administration's policies.
PHILLIPS: Well that's understandable...
FELDT: And that's why it's important to wear the shirt.
PHILLIPS: I totally understand what you're saying, what Planned Parenthood stands for and -- and the policies that you believe in.
But when it comes down to T-shirts like this, I'm just wondering is this trivializing an abortion, something that is a very hard decision to make, something that I thought was supposed to be very private and very sacred, it's a difficult thing to deal with.
I mean, Gloria, think of the T-shirt, you know, "Barbie is a lesbian." Remember when that came out? And it became a fad; it became something that all the teenagers wanted to wear.
I mean, can you just imagine all these teenagers that never even know what it's like to have an abortion or deal with that decision all of a sudden thinking oh this is rebellious let's order this and next thing you know they're wearing them on the streets of wherever.
FELDT: No -- yes, I -- Kyra I think that's a good question but I don't think that's the way it works. I think that women -- women have brains and hearts and consciousness' and they make these decisions very carefully and thoughtfully.
But it's important that women not be shamed and its important that young women, particularly as you're talking about understand that this could you could be faced with a situation and in fact women who have abortions are the same women who have babies.
It's not unusual, and it could be your mother, your daughter, you sister, your friend, yourself. And it simply is something not to be ashamed of.
PHILLIPS: I'm curious how many you've sold.
FELDT: I don't know. Again, I -- because these are not actually Planned Parenthood T-shirts, I really don't know the answer to that. But I have been told that since this controversy has erupted that she's had to see to it that she has a supply again.
PHILLIPS: I can imagine. Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood. Thanks for your time, Gloria.
FELDT: Thank you very much Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Miles?
O'BRIEN: Google seems to be back to normal today after yesterday's virus attack that left the site crippled for many users.
We told you about it here first on CNN LIVE FROM of course, but still a lot of talk about Google on Wall Street, of course. There's that little IPO thing they've got going on.
Mary Snow joining us, and gosh it just seems like the '90s there when they start talking about Google like there's some -- some real value there. What's the thought on Wall Street? Is this the beginning of another bubble?
MARY SNOW, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Well, yes, and who said hype went away, right?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
SNOW: You know, Miles, so far this is on track to be the eighth largest IPO in history and some on Wall Street are saying you might want to just take a second look if you plan to buy a share of Google -- well, actually, you can't buy one share, you're going to have to buy five at least.
That's part of the plan for the IPO. The company saying that it plans to sell nearly 25 million shares to the public.
It will be trading at the Nasdaq under the ticker symbol GOOG -- likely to happen sometime in the next few weeks and as far as how to get a piece of the action we found out yesterday that shares will be priced between $108 and $135.
Investors will be allowed to buy as few as five shares, and its all part of a Dutch auction process. What you need to do is go to a Web site; it's Google's Web site, ipo.google.com. Google saying it should be fully functional in the next few days.
Now once the auction opens, place bids through one of 28 brokers working with Google, but many Wall Street insiders are saying beware of the hype, and they're saying it is a steep price to pay for this IPO.
O'BRIEN: I should say -- I should say. You would think given the lessons we saw in the last few years. But you know, it's amazing once the herd gets rolling. All right, well nothing cheap about that deal. Five shares at more than 100 bucks a copy.
Let's talk about a blue-light special for a moment, shall we? Kmart.
SNOW: Yes, this is certainly a special on Wall Street today. This stock is soaring today. It's up more than $7 and that's about a ten percent gain.
The reason for the profit of the stock today, a Deutsche Bank report on retailers came out saying that the real estate on which Kmart owns stores is worth a lot more than the stock prices right now and that's really given that stock a boost. As for the rest of the markets, stocks solidly higher today as you see right there the Dow up 78 points and that's really mainly due to a surprise increase in consumer confidence.
Also, some solid earnings from companies like Verizon and that put the Dow up above that 10,000 mark. The Nasdaq Composite is adding nearly one percent.
And that is the latest from Wall Street. Still ahead, downloading music on the go. The Apple iTunes revolution moves into a new phase. I'll explain when LIVE FROM moves on right after this break.
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