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Mark Hacking Arrested For Alleged Murder Of His Wife; White House/Kerry campaign Fight Over Better Terror-Fighting Tactics; Security Concerns At Specific Financial Targets In U.S.
Aired August 02, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Major new developments and possibly a major break in the case of that missing Utah pregnant woman. We go now to Salt Lake City, Miguel Marquez there on the scene.
What do you know, Miguel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like the big break that everybody has been waiting for. Rick Dinse, the police chief -- Salt Lake City police chief is going to come out here in about 60 seconds, according to the public information officer, and make a big announcement, according to the public information officer. He spoke here just a short time ago.
It's not entirely clear what that is, but we do have an idea. I spoke to Gil Athay, Mark Hacking's lawyer, a short time ago, or to his office, and his office says that Mr. Athay is watching this press conference, was aware of the announcement that's going to be made here. So, it leads one to believe that this has to do with Mark Hacking.
Mr. Hacking, police say, remains in the hospital, a psychiatric ward here in a local hospital, where he has been for several days. Police say the last time they talked to Mr. Hacking was two Wednesday's ago. This is Police Chief Rick Dinse.
(PRESS CONFERENCE)
PHILLIPS: Well, you heard it there, straight from the Police Chief of Salt Lake City, Rick Dinse. Just as he was released from the psychiatric hospital, Mark Hacking was arrested for the alleged murder of his wife, Lori Hacking. Now he is in the Salt Lake County Jail under suicide watch.
Miguel Marquez on the scene now with a few more of the details. The police chief showing a human side there, Miguel, talking about now the search for Lori Hacking's body, possibly her final resting-place in 3,000 tons of garbage in a landfill, is pretty heart-wrenching.
MARQUEZ: It is heart-wrenching to think -- we were out there the other day. It is a large, two-acre lot that they're poring through, about 2,500 pounds of garbage a day that they're able to get through. And it's an enormous pit of garbage, and it smells, and it's not pretty work. And it's frustrating, I think, for investigators and for everybody here in Utah to think that that may be the final place to find her. The chief announcing that one hour ago, they negotiated sort of the release from the hospital and into their custody of Mark Hacking, the husband of Lori Hacking -- says that he has been the number one person of interest or suspect since this thing began. Nobody else seemed to even come into the picture. They don't have any other suspects at this point, saying that they found evidence in the vehicle.
Witnesses provided them evidence in the Hackings' apartment. They were getting ready to move to North Carolina. We do know that they pulled a box spring out of there only, and that Mr. Hacking was buying a mattress the day that he reported his wife missing.
And they also found evidence in a Dumpster about a block away from their address here in Salt Lake City -- a very big announcement, a very big relief amongst police, talking to them a short time ago just before they announced this thing that they were able to come out here and definitively, even without a body, able to make the announcement that Mark Hacking has been arrested on one count of aggravated murder. Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Miguel Marquez, live from Salt Lake, thank you so much.
Let's take it over to Washington, D.C., where Mike Brooks is standing by. He's actually been covering the security threat from there. But we're going to take a totally different turn with you, Mike, because you used to be a law enforcement officer. A couple of questions for you -- let's first talk about this search in this landfill -- even the police chief saying this is extremely difficult, even with the dogs.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's very, very difficult, Kyra. Even with cadaver dogs in a landfill, you have tons and tons of trash, as Miguel was just talking about, but you also have dirt. We've been into this two weeks. They started the search in that landfill about a week into the case. A lot of trash can accumulate in a week.
In fact, in Salt Lake City, that's the main landfill. There's one other landfill, but they're concentrating their search in this one because that's where all the trash from that part of the city where their apartment's located was taken, to that particular landfill.
But I can tell you, as a former investigator who has actually been in landfills doing searches for evidence, it's a nasty, nasty job, and it's heart-wrenching for law enforcement officers as well as the family to think of her under all that trash.
But they know now that, in fact, she is in that landfill somewhere, and they will eventually find her.
PHILLIPS: And Mike, the police chief talking about the evidence that they have from the couple's car, to the apartment, to the trash Dumpster, to witnesses. I guess you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put all those pieces together. But it looks like police believe that he may have murdered his wife in their apartment and then dumped the body in the Dumpster.
BROOKS: That's what all the indications are right now. We heard the chief say that they do believe that the crime did take place in the apartment. There was a trash can that they had taken that belonged to a neighbor that was missing. They believe that the body may have been dumped in that, then transported to the landfill, dumped in the landfill.
We know that her car was found at the entrance to the park. Sources are telling me that early on in the investigation, they believe that the car had been driven there and left and, in fact, she never did drive to the park. And we know now that the murder did take place in the apartment.
Again, they were trying to dot all their Is and cross all their Ts before they came out and said specifically that they wanted him for aggravated murder. And now, what the initial aggravation was, I'm sure we'll find out later in the case -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: Mike Brooks, live from D.C., thanks so much.
Let's take you to New York now. Our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us now by phone to talk about what could happen to Mark Hacking. Jeffrey, first of all, let's talk about aggravated murder. Let's define that and talk about what the future holds now for Mark Hacking if, indeed, he is found guilty.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, aggravated murder means that the potential exists for the death penalty. Many people may remember that Utah was the first state to have an execution after the death penalty was reinstated by the supreme court. It was Gary Gilmore, who was killed by firing squad.
This is obviously a case where that will be something the prosecutors will want to consider. Certainly, given the heinousness of the accusation and the community outrage, it wouldn't be a surprise if they asked for it.
PHILLIPS: So, let's talk about Mark Hacking being in this psychiatric facility. In one way, that helps him because he didn't have to answer questions right away. It was a bit of a protective bubble for him. However, this gave the police more time to gather the case, evidence in the case.
TOOBIN: It seems clear that he was the only suspect from the very beginning, and they weren't going to let him get out of their sight. The fact that he was in a psychiatric facility, in a controlled circumstance, means that they didn't have to worry about him trying to escape.
The other fact to consider about him being in a psychiatric facility is that the possibility of an insanity defense might be raised. You know, we talk about insanity defenses a lot. They are very rarely successful, but it is certainly something you think about if a criminal defendant is in psychiatric custody at the time he's arrested. PHILLIPS: Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much.
Next, the day's other big story: on heightened alert in two of America's biggest cities. Plus, President Bush and John Kerry battle over who's doing enough to fight terror. We're live in Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Now, terror plots and presidential politics. While some of the nation's highest profile financial centers stand guard against apparent new threats from al Qaeda, threats said to be chilling in scope and detail, the White House and the Kerry campaign are fighting over who can fight terror better.
John Kerry's remarks on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" were followed by a presidential appearance in the Rose Garden, which was followed by another Kerry briefing, which was followed by an expanded White House news conference.
Here's Mr. Bush on plans to create a national sub-cabinet level intelligence czar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think the person ought to be a member of my cabinet. I will hire a person, and I can fire the person, which is -- any president would like. That's how you have accountability in government.
I don't think that the office ought to be in the White House, however. I think it ought to be a stand-alone group to better coordinate, particularly between foreign intelligence and domestic intelligence matters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Candidate Kerry says all of the intel reforms recommended by the 9/11 Commission ought to be adopted, and soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the president had a sense of urgency about this director of intelligence and about the needs to strengthen America, he would call the Congress back and get the job done now. That's what we need to do. That's the urgency that exists in order to make America as safe as possible.
The terror alert yesterday just underscores that if we're being serious about this, we have to move on every possible option to make our nation as safe as possible. The time to act is now, not later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: That alert that Kerry spoke of is a code orange. It's posted in parts of Manhattan, Newark, New Jersey, and Washington. Security there is high, nerves are on edge, but business is business.
CNN's Sean Callebs is in Washington, just outside the World Bank. What's it like, Sean?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we can tell you when World Bank employees arrived here this morning, they did indeed find extra security -- more security guards out in front checking IDs, even before employees got inside. A police presence here on the street, randomly stopping trucks and checking periodically to see what could be found inside those vehicles as well, and for good reason, too.
We have a map of exactly where this facility is located. Take a look -- very busy intersection here in downtown Washington, and only a couple of blocks away from the White House. Now, as well, the World Bank president was on vacation when this news broke yesterday. He traveled back to Washington, D.C., met with security officials.
And right now, we understand that apparently, a town hall type meeting is going on inside, where James Wolfensohn is trying to allay concerns that employees here may have, but at the same time, answering questions -- a number of employees clearly very concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was worried, obviously. But I trust the system that the government's set up, the alert system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a job to do, and I'm not going to let somebody that I don't know where they are and what they're doing stop me from doing my job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're in constant contact with the authorities and the FBI, and that if they learn something more, you know, action will be taken. But as of now, we're open for regular visits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: All right, yesterday, the D.C. police said that they were going to try and resist putting up any kind of barricades, closing any major thoroughfares, saying they would not be intimidated by a terrorist threat. But the information from the Homeland Security secretary very specific.
They have closed H Street, one block right in front of the World Bank. A police car is blocking that area -- this in response to what the secretary says is some very detailed information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, SECY. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: It certainly indicates that they have taken a long, hard look at several sites -- that taken in conjunction with the continuous reference to trying to undermine our democratic process.
There was no mention of when an attack could occur, but we don't have the luxury of guessing. We have to try to do more and better every single day to prevent an attack regardless of where it will occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: The nation's capital, D.C., is on alert. Some of the items that have unfolded in the past 24 hours after news broke yesterday -- bomb sniffing dogs actually combed the area around the World Bank and the IMF. Nothing was found there. And although the Homeland Security secretary also said that the financial institutions were elevated to code orange, D.C. elevated the entire city.
They are also going to have an increased police presence around the Federal Reserve, as well as the Bureau of Engraving and Printing -- two important financial institutions. Also, D.C.'s mayor has elevated the entire city to this orange level, saying if one part of the city is affected, the entire city could be affected -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: All right, Sean Callebs there out in front of the IMF. Thank you so much. Well, the New York Stock Exchange was also one of the financial institutions singled out in the latest terror threat...
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 2, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Major new developments and possibly a major break in the case of that missing Utah pregnant woman. We go now to Salt Lake City, Miguel Marquez there on the scene.
What do you know, Miguel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like the big break that everybody has been waiting for. Rick Dinse, the police chief -- Salt Lake City police chief is going to come out here in about 60 seconds, according to the public information officer, and make a big announcement, according to the public information officer. He spoke here just a short time ago.
It's not entirely clear what that is, but we do have an idea. I spoke to Gil Athay, Mark Hacking's lawyer, a short time ago, or to his office, and his office says that Mr. Athay is watching this press conference, was aware of the announcement that's going to be made here. So, it leads one to believe that this has to do with Mark Hacking.
Mr. Hacking, police say, remains in the hospital, a psychiatric ward here in a local hospital, where he has been for several days. Police say the last time they talked to Mr. Hacking was two Wednesday's ago. This is Police Chief Rick Dinse.
(PRESS CONFERENCE)
PHILLIPS: Well, you heard it there, straight from the Police Chief of Salt Lake City, Rick Dinse. Just as he was released from the psychiatric hospital, Mark Hacking was arrested for the alleged murder of his wife, Lori Hacking. Now he is in the Salt Lake County Jail under suicide watch.
Miguel Marquez on the scene now with a few more of the details. The police chief showing a human side there, Miguel, talking about now the search for Lori Hacking's body, possibly her final resting-place in 3,000 tons of garbage in a landfill, is pretty heart-wrenching.
MARQUEZ: It is heart-wrenching to think -- we were out there the other day. It is a large, two-acre lot that they're poring through, about 2,500 pounds of garbage a day that they're able to get through. And it's an enormous pit of garbage, and it smells, and it's not pretty work. And it's frustrating, I think, for investigators and for everybody here in Utah to think that that may be the final place to find her. The chief announcing that one hour ago, they negotiated sort of the release from the hospital and into their custody of Mark Hacking, the husband of Lori Hacking -- says that he has been the number one person of interest or suspect since this thing began. Nobody else seemed to even come into the picture. They don't have any other suspects at this point, saying that they found evidence in the vehicle.
Witnesses provided them evidence in the Hackings' apartment. They were getting ready to move to North Carolina. We do know that they pulled a box spring out of there only, and that Mr. Hacking was buying a mattress the day that he reported his wife missing.
And they also found evidence in a Dumpster about a block away from their address here in Salt Lake City -- a very big announcement, a very big relief amongst police, talking to them a short time ago just before they announced this thing that they were able to come out here and definitively, even without a body, able to make the announcement that Mark Hacking has been arrested on one count of aggravated murder. Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Miguel Marquez, live from Salt Lake, thank you so much.
Let's take it over to Washington, D.C., where Mike Brooks is standing by. He's actually been covering the security threat from there. But we're going to take a totally different turn with you, Mike, because you used to be a law enforcement officer. A couple of questions for you -- let's first talk about this search in this landfill -- even the police chief saying this is extremely difficult, even with the dogs.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's very, very difficult, Kyra. Even with cadaver dogs in a landfill, you have tons and tons of trash, as Miguel was just talking about, but you also have dirt. We've been into this two weeks. They started the search in that landfill about a week into the case. A lot of trash can accumulate in a week.
In fact, in Salt Lake City, that's the main landfill. There's one other landfill, but they're concentrating their search in this one because that's where all the trash from that part of the city where their apartment's located was taken, to that particular landfill.
But I can tell you, as a former investigator who has actually been in landfills doing searches for evidence, it's a nasty, nasty job, and it's heart-wrenching for law enforcement officers as well as the family to think of her under all that trash.
But they know now that, in fact, she is in that landfill somewhere, and they will eventually find her.
PHILLIPS: And Mike, the police chief talking about the evidence that they have from the couple's car, to the apartment, to the trash Dumpster, to witnesses. I guess you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put all those pieces together. But it looks like police believe that he may have murdered his wife in their apartment and then dumped the body in the Dumpster.
BROOKS: That's what all the indications are right now. We heard the chief say that they do believe that the crime did take place in the apartment. There was a trash can that they had taken that belonged to a neighbor that was missing. They believe that the body may have been dumped in that, then transported to the landfill, dumped in the landfill.
We know that her car was found at the entrance to the park. Sources are telling me that early on in the investigation, they believe that the car had been driven there and left and, in fact, she never did drive to the park. And we know now that the murder did take place in the apartment.
Again, they were trying to dot all their Is and cross all their Ts before they came out and said specifically that they wanted him for aggravated murder. And now, what the initial aggravation was, I'm sure we'll find out later in the case -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: Mike Brooks, live from D.C., thanks so much.
Let's take you to New York now. Our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us now by phone to talk about what could happen to Mark Hacking. Jeffrey, first of all, let's talk about aggravated murder. Let's define that and talk about what the future holds now for Mark Hacking if, indeed, he is found guilty.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, aggravated murder means that the potential exists for the death penalty. Many people may remember that Utah was the first state to have an execution after the death penalty was reinstated by the supreme court. It was Gary Gilmore, who was killed by firing squad.
This is obviously a case where that will be something the prosecutors will want to consider. Certainly, given the heinousness of the accusation and the community outrage, it wouldn't be a surprise if they asked for it.
PHILLIPS: So, let's talk about Mark Hacking being in this psychiatric facility. In one way, that helps him because he didn't have to answer questions right away. It was a bit of a protective bubble for him. However, this gave the police more time to gather the case, evidence in the case.
TOOBIN: It seems clear that he was the only suspect from the very beginning, and they weren't going to let him get out of their sight. The fact that he was in a psychiatric facility, in a controlled circumstance, means that they didn't have to worry about him trying to escape.
The other fact to consider about him being in a psychiatric facility is that the possibility of an insanity defense might be raised. You know, we talk about insanity defenses a lot. They are very rarely successful, but it is certainly something you think about if a criminal defendant is in psychiatric custody at the time he's arrested. PHILLIPS: Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much.
Next, the day's other big story: on heightened alert in two of America's biggest cities. Plus, President Bush and John Kerry battle over who's doing enough to fight terror. We're live in Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Now, terror plots and presidential politics. While some of the nation's highest profile financial centers stand guard against apparent new threats from al Qaeda, threats said to be chilling in scope and detail, the White House and the Kerry campaign are fighting over who can fight terror better.
John Kerry's remarks on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" were followed by a presidential appearance in the Rose Garden, which was followed by another Kerry briefing, which was followed by an expanded White House news conference.
Here's Mr. Bush on plans to create a national sub-cabinet level intelligence czar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think the person ought to be a member of my cabinet. I will hire a person, and I can fire the person, which is -- any president would like. That's how you have accountability in government.
I don't think that the office ought to be in the White House, however. I think it ought to be a stand-alone group to better coordinate, particularly between foreign intelligence and domestic intelligence matters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Candidate Kerry says all of the intel reforms recommended by the 9/11 Commission ought to be adopted, and soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the president had a sense of urgency about this director of intelligence and about the needs to strengthen America, he would call the Congress back and get the job done now. That's what we need to do. That's the urgency that exists in order to make America as safe as possible.
The terror alert yesterday just underscores that if we're being serious about this, we have to move on every possible option to make our nation as safe as possible. The time to act is now, not later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: That alert that Kerry spoke of is a code orange. It's posted in parts of Manhattan, Newark, New Jersey, and Washington. Security there is high, nerves are on edge, but business is business.
CNN's Sean Callebs is in Washington, just outside the World Bank. What's it like, Sean?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we can tell you when World Bank employees arrived here this morning, they did indeed find extra security -- more security guards out in front checking IDs, even before employees got inside. A police presence here on the street, randomly stopping trucks and checking periodically to see what could be found inside those vehicles as well, and for good reason, too.
We have a map of exactly where this facility is located. Take a look -- very busy intersection here in downtown Washington, and only a couple of blocks away from the White House. Now, as well, the World Bank president was on vacation when this news broke yesterday. He traveled back to Washington, D.C., met with security officials.
And right now, we understand that apparently, a town hall type meeting is going on inside, where James Wolfensohn is trying to allay concerns that employees here may have, but at the same time, answering questions -- a number of employees clearly very concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was worried, obviously. But I trust the system that the government's set up, the alert system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a job to do, and I'm not going to let somebody that I don't know where they are and what they're doing stop me from doing my job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're in constant contact with the authorities and the FBI, and that if they learn something more, you know, action will be taken. But as of now, we're open for regular visits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: All right, yesterday, the D.C. police said that they were going to try and resist putting up any kind of barricades, closing any major thoroughfares, saying they would not be intimidated by a terrorist threat. But the information from the Homeland Security secretary very specific.
They have closed H Street, one block right in front of the World Bank. A police car is blocking that area -- this in response to what the secretary says is some very detailed information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, SECY. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: It certainly indicates that they have taken a long, hard look at several sites -- that taken in conjunction with the continuous reference to trying to undermine our democratic process.
There was no mention of when an attack could occur, but we don't have the luxury of guessing. We have to try to do more and better every single day to prevent an attack regardless of where it will occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: The nation's capital, D.C., is on alert. Some of the items that have unfolded in the past 24 hours after news broke yesterday -- bomb sniffing dogs actually combed the area around the World Bank and the IMF. Nothing was found there. And although the Homeland Security secretary also said that the financial institutions were elevated to code orange, D.C. elevated the entire city.
They are also going to have an increased police presence around the Federal Reserve, as well as the Bureau of Engraving and Printing -- two important financial institutions. Also, D.C.'s mayor has elevated the entire city to this orange level, saying if one part of the city is affected, the entire city could be affected -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: All right, Sean Callebs there out in front of the IMF. Thank you so much. Well, the New York Stock Exchange was also one of the financial institutions singled out in the latest terror threat...
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
