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Discussion with an Al Qaeda Expert Who Has Been Tracking Terrorists and Their Use of the Web, Internet, Disposable E-Mail
Aired August 03, 2004 - 13:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: In the news now, the worst of Hurricane Alex is pounding the Outer Banks of North Caro9lina right now. It's expected to continue over the next couple of hours. Winds reached as high as 100 miles per hour earlier today. That storm was expected to head out to sea by this evening.
More time in the Heartland for John Kerry at this hour. He's top-lining a townhall meeting on the economy in Beloit, Wisconsin. Kerry's running mate, John Edwards, is holding what he calls "believe in America" rallies in three cities in Louisiana.
And if it's Tuesday, it must be Texas for President Bush. This hour, he attends a private fund-raising event where journalists are kept out. Later the president courts the catholic vote with a speech to the Knights of Columbus in Dallas.
Regulators say confusion and panic led to last year's deadly farmer's market crash in Santa Monica. The NTSB has ruled that 86- year-old George Weller mistakenly hit the gas pedal instead of the brakes and went barreling through that crowd. You'll remember it killed 10 people. The board did not address the issue of elderly drivers.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Chillingly precise intelligence about terror plots, not from undercover agents though, or covert code cracking, but from the capture of an al Qaeda computer expert, a capture that led to tightened security around key financial sites in Washington, New York and New Jersey.
Al Qaeda expert Paul Eedle has been tracking terrorists and their use of the Web, Internet and disposable e-mail since way before 9/11. He joins us live from London.
Paul, let's first talk about the computer expert, al Qaeda computer expert. Are you surprised about the information that was recovered from the hard drive?
PAUL EEDLE, AL QAEDA EXPERT: No, I'm not surprised about the information, but it is very interesting confirmation that al Qaeda's original core leadership, hidden off on the mountainous border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan, is still in touch with its worldwide cells. Here, this man who was captured was like the spider at the center of a web of communications that shows that although al Qaeda has replicated itself, we now have al Qaeda operations, affiliates, if you like, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, other countries. The original core of al Qaeda that hit New York and Washington is still active, alive and planning attacks on America.
And this is something that you said has been going on way before 9/11. Computer training schools have been very active overseas. And now that Afghanistan had been bombed so heavily that they rely even more on the computer.
PHILLIPS: Let's take a look at pre-9/11, this article that came out in "Atlantic Monthly." You and I were talking about this. Some of the e-mails actually sent to Osama bin Laden and his right-hand leaders. It told you a lot with regard to their communication style. This one, first of all, to Ayman al-Zawahiri talking about 40 of the contractors' friends were taken by surprise by malaria a few days ago following the telegram they sent, which was similar to Salah al-Din's telegrams. What did this tell you when you read this e-mail?
EEDLE: It tells me that al Qaeda's brilliance is its imaginative use of low technology. It would be perfectly possible for them to use very heavy encryption on their messages. But the advanced eavesdropping equipment that Western intelligence agencies have can see when an encrypted message passes from a point to point, even if they can't crack the code. But al Qaeda simply uses ordinary e-mail and this sort of very low-tech code to communicate, and it reveals that our intelligence agencies have got the advanced electronics to crack codes that are appropriate for the Cold War, cracking military codes of the Soviet Union. But badly equipped to deal with straightforward e-mails sent over an ordinary Internet connection.
PHILLIPS: I guess that would parlay perfectly in the 9/11 Commission, talking about the use of imagination with regard to terrorists.
Let's look at this other e-mail, this also came from Ayman Al Zawahiri, going to Ezzat and Osama bin Laden and a number of the other henchmen, and this kind of reveals the pettiness that took place among the terrorists pre-9/11 -- "Why did you buy a new fax for $470? Where are the two old faxes? Did you get permission before buying a new fax under such circumstances?"
What does that tell us about a terrorist organization that we thought was this huge monster with unlimited money funneled through Osama bin Laden?
EEDLE: This point is also mentioned in the 9/11 report, that Americans have been led to believe that al Qaeda is this worldwide hydra monster that can't be tracked. In point of fact, al Qaeda is in terms of numbers, are relatively small organization. What distinguishes is its imagination, its strategic planning, and the Western response would be better designed to tracking down these very small number of key leaders, rather than in raising people's fears about a very broad, amorphous threat.
PHILLIPS: So, Paul, taking a look at the hard drives that have been recovered, reading these e-mails, catching on to how these terrorist networks are using the computers so much, is it still a main resource for terrorists? Or do you think it's becoming less of a resource?
EEDLE: No, I think it's becoming more of a resource. It's absolutely fundamental to the way in which al Qaeda and its affiliates operate, On two levels. On one level, they certainly use it for command and control, e-mails with the simple coding, discussing future operations. They also use it as a political tool. Al Qaeda is as much a political and ideological movement as it is a military organization. This point was recognized in the 9/11 report. And Western governments need to do more to counter al Qaeda as a political movement. It's out there on the Web every day with videos, statements, message boards, and Western governments have really left it free to operate.
PHILLIPS: As a little sidebar, looking at the e-mails, there was something else that was revealed in this article, tips for terrorists. We started reading through these. Don't wear short pants. It shows socks when you're standing up. If you use women's perfume, you are in trouble. Even talking about underwear should be normal, not anything that shows that you're a fundamentalist. I mean, is this just a sign of how these terrorists continue to try to blend in the most bizarre ways, and how these sleeper cells are just continuing to grow?
EEDLE: I think a few of them might need reminding about how to blend in with Western societies. But I think what's more dangerous for the West is that many of these people don't need any lessons on how to blend in. These are people who have lived for many years in Western societies. They may be citizens, American citizens, European citizens, and they've been there since before 9/11.
There has been some record of success by intelligence agencies in tracking down al Qaeda cells around the world. But as we saw from the Madrid bombings, the evidence was that this was carried out by a cell that had been there for many years, from the late 1980s. So it's the sleeper cells that nobody knows about that could mount the next devastating attack on the United States, or a European capital.
PHILLIPS: Al Qaeda expert, investigative reporter, Paul Eedle, live from London.
Thanks, Paul.
Straight ahead, if you're tired of swallowing those horse pill- sized vitamins every day, well, before you become too intrigued by the new misty supplements, hear what Dr. Sanjay Gupta has to say about them. That's coming up next.
Also ahead, health coverage on the decline in the U.S.? Details in biz.
Call them quackery, call them historic sex gadgets. Just don't call Jeanne Moos if you want to try them out. LIVE FROM hears all of this right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Health news now. Folks who don't like pills and shots are increasingly turning to sprays. But do they work? CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta does a fact check.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Getting your vitamins in pill form has become somewhat of a daily routine for many Americans. But how about also giving them in the form of a spray? Take a look at all these products here. These are called Vitamist.
There are various products for prenatal vitamins, women's health. There are immune system vitamins. They're all in the form of a spray. I actually have some of it right here as well.
Basically what you do is you just open that up, and spray that eight times a day into your mouth. I'll tell you right now, it doesn't taste so great. But a lot of people are starting to use products like this. Certainly FluMist, for example, became a very popular way of getting your flu vaccine.
Take a look at some of the numbers, it's not cheap, first of all. Twenty dollars to $36 a month is what it's going to cost you. That's about three times the cost of pills.
Also, eight spritzes a day, two every four hours, a lot of people have a hard time remembering taking a single pill. That's going to be a lot to remember. Also there's no data actually showing that it's any more effective than taking the pills themselves.
So why are they catching on in popularity in places like Wal-Mart and various other pharmacies across the country. One is that they may have some legitimate purpose. People who don't like swallowing pill, for example. There are people who may like to spray instead.
Also gastrointestinal problems. If you have some of those, you may want to take the spray instead of pill form. Or if you've had a recent operation, such as gastric bypass surgery where actually you need vitamins but can't take them, then this might be an option for you as well.
Needless to say, Vitamist is something that you can look for, pretty sure for soon. But you don't know whether or not it's going to be something that's any better than a pill in the long term.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's a big business day today. But did you know that sex improvement gadgets have been around for centuries. A provocative history lesson from Jeanne Moos coming up.
(MARKET REPORT)
PHILLIPS: From herbal aphrodisiacs to the potions of snake oil salesmen, products promising more and better sex are as old as the ages. Now some urologists have accumulated a bizarre little collection of gadgets. Of course our Jeanne Moos checked them all out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These days the come-ons come in e-mail, promising bigger, longer, stronger, but what's really long is the history of quackery.
To spark up your sex life, there have been gizmos ranging from the vibrating chair for women to the unisex violet ray machine with attachment that go places best left to your imagination.
DR. REINER ENGEL, AMERICAN UROLOGICAL MUSEUM: We haven't had any volunteer who is willing to have those sparks delivered.
MOOS: Here at the American Urological Association headquarters near Baltimore, even the flags are limp. The urological museum features head shakers like a kidney stone so big doctors had to take out the kidney.
At the just-opened quackery exhibit, you can find items like the Heidelberg belt. Guys, you can imagine where the loop goes. The belt delivers a small electrical charge that promises quick relief of all weaknesses.
MOOS (on camera): What is the most sort of blatant, dumbest piece of quackery you ever saw?
ENGEL: Probably a rectal dilator.
MOOS (voice-over): Yikes. Dr. Young's perfection comes in ever- larger sizes, guaranteed to cure ills ranging from insomnia to impotence.
ENGEL: Try one.
MOOS (on camera): Not on camera.
MOOS (voice-over): Here's a charmer intended to discourage nighttime arousal.
ENGEL: The teeth would dig in there and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MOOS (on camera): The Spermataria (ph) ring was sold in a Sears catalogue in 1903 for 25 cents.
MOOS (voice-over): As for the violet ray machine that delivers a tiny charge, it came with attachments to improve your eyesight, grow hair, fix your thyroid.
And then there's the infamous device even Austin Powers disowned. The exhibit's curator says it might work, but only if you used it all the time risking tissue damage.
ENGEL: If I take your tongue and put a couple of weights on it, and if you do it for a year, you have a tongue that hangs down to here.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, Baltimore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: From international image to courtroom defendant, the private at the center of the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal faces military justice.
Churning surf after a brush with Alex. We're live with the latest on the hurricane's move up the East Coast.
A monumental moment, Lady Liberty invites America back over for a visit. We're live from the post-9/11 celebration.
A battle for survival between a boy and a shark. The boy finishes the rest of the fishing story, ahead on LIVE FROM.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off. This hour of CNN LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour, abuse, disgrace and global outrage, just for fun. The U.S. Army's lead investigator in the Iraqi prisoner mistreatment scandal said the GI's captures on camera, quote, "didn't think it was that big a deal. They were joking around." We're following a hearing in North Carolina today that could lead to court- martial for one of the troops, 21-year-old, six-months-pregnant Lynndie England.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 3, 2004 - 13:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: In the news now, the worst of Hurricane Alex is pounding the Outer Banks of North Caro9lina right now. It's expected to continue over the next couple of hours. Winds reached as high as 100 miles per hour earlier today. That storm was expected to head out to sea by this evening.
More time in the Heartland for John Kerry at this hour. He's top-lining a townhall meeting on the economy in Beloit, Wisconsin. Kerry's running mate, John Edwards, is holding what he calls "believe in America" rallies in three cities in Louisiana.
And if it's Tuesday, it must be Texas for President Bush. This hour, he attends a private fund-raising event where journalists are kept out. Later the president courts the catholic vote with a speech to the Knights of Columbus in Dallas.
Regulators say confusion and panic led to last year's deadly farmer's market crash in Santa Monica. The NTSB has ruled that 86- year-old George Weller mistakenly hit the gas pedal instead of the brakes and went barreling through that crowd. You'll remember it killed 10 people. The board did not address the issue of elderly drivers.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Chillingly precise intelligence about terror plots, not from undercover agents though, or covert code cracking, but from the capture of an al Qaeda computer expert, a capture that led to tightened security around key financial sites in Washington, New York and New Jersey.
Al Qaeda expert Paul Eedle has been tracking terrorists and their use of the Web, Internet and disposable e-mail since way before 9/11. He joins us live from London.
Paul, let's first talk about the computer expert, al Qaeda computer expert. Are you surprised about the information that was recovered from the hard drive?
PAUL EEDLE, AL QAEDA EXPERT: No, I'm not surprised about the information, but it is very interesting confirmation that al Qaeda's original core leadership, hidden off on the mountainous border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan, is still in touch with its worldwide cells. Here, this man who was captured was like the spider at the center of a web of communications that shows that although al Qaeda has replicated itself, we now have al Qaeda operations, affiliates, if you like, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, other countries. The original core of al Qaeda that hit New York and Washington is still active, alive and planning attacks on America.
And this is something that you said has been going on way before 9/11. Computer training schools have been very active overseas. And now that Afghanistan had been bombed so heavily that they rely even more on the computer.
PHILLIPS: Let's take a look at pre-9/11, this article that came out in "Atlantic Monthly." You and I were talking about this. Some of the e-mails actually sent to Osama bin Laden and his right-hand leaders. It told you a lot with regard to their communication style. This one, first of all, to Ayman al-Zawahiri talking about 40 of the contractors' friends were taken by surprise by malaria a few days ago following the telegram they sent, which was similar to Salah al-Din's telegrams. What did this tell you when you read this e-mail?
EEDLE: It tells me that al Qaeda's brilliance is its imaginative use of low technology. It would be perfectly possible for them to use very heavy encryption on their messages. But the advanced eavesdropping equipment that Western intelligence agencies have can see when an encrypted message passes from a point to point, even if they can't crack the code. But al Qaeda simply uses ordinary e-mail and this sort of very low-tech code to communicate, and it reveals that our intelligence agencies have got the advanced electronics to crack codes that are appropriate for the Cold War, cracking military codes of the Soviet Union. But badly equipped to deal with straightforward e-mails sent over an ordinary Internet connection.
PHILLIPS: I guess that would parlay perfectly in the 9/11 Commission, talking about the use of imagination with regard to terrorists.
Let's look at this other e-mail, this also came from Ayman Al Zawahiri, going to Ezzat and Osama bin Laden and a number of the other henchmen, and this kind of reveals the pettiness that took place among the terrorists pre-9/11 -- "Why did you buy a new fax for $470? Where are the two old faxes? Did you get permission before buying a new fax under such circumstances?"
What does that tell us about a terrorist organization that we thought was this huge monster with unlimited money funneled through Osama bin Laden?
EEDLE: This point is also mentioned in the 9/11 report, that Americans have been led to believe that al Qaeda is this worldwide hydra monster that can't be tracked. In point of fact, al Qaeda is in terms of numbers, are relatively small organization. What distinguishes is its imagination, its strategic planning, and the Western response would be better designed to tracking down these very small number of key leaders, rather than in raising people's fears about a very broad, amorphous threat.
PHILLIPS: So, Paul, taking a look at the hard drives that have been recovered, reading these e-mails, catching on to how these terrorist networks are using the computers so much, is it still a main resource for terrorists? Or do you think it's becoming less of a resource?
EEDLE: No, I think it's becoming more of a resource. It's absolutely fundamental to the way in which al Qaeda and its affiliates operate, On two levels. On one level, they certainly use it for command and control, e-mails with the simple coding, discussing future operations. They also use it as a political tool. Al Qaeda is as much a political and ideological movement as it is a military organization. This point was recognized in the 9/11 report. And Western governments need to do more to counter al Qaeda as a political movement. It's out there on the Web every day with videos, statements, message boards, and Western governments have really left it free to operate.
PHILLIPS: As a little sidebar, looking at the e-mails, there was something else that was revealed in this article, tips for terrorists. We started reading through these. Don't wear short pants. It shows socks when you're standing up. If you use women's perfume, you are in trouble. Even talking about underwear should be normal, not anything that shows that you're a fundamentalist. I mean, is this just a sign of how these terrorists continue to try to blend in the most bizarre ways, and how these sleeper cells are just continuing to grow?
EEDLE: I think a few of them might need reminding about how to blend in with Western societies. But I think what's more dangerous for the West is that many of these people don't need any lessons on how to blend in. These are people who have lived for many years in Western societies. They may be citizens, American citizens, European citizens, and they've been there since before 9/11.
There has been some record of success by intelligence agencies in tracking down al Qaeda cells around the world. But as we saw from the Madrid bombings, the evidence was that this was carried out by a cell that had been there for many years, from the late 1980s. So it's the sleeper cells that nobody knows about that could mount the next devastating attack on the United States, or a European capital.
PHILLIPS: Al Qaeda expert, investigative reporter, Paul Eedle, live from London.
Thanks, Paul.
Straight ahead, if you're tired of swallowing those horse pill- sized vitamins every day, well, before you become too intrigued by the new misty supplements, hear what Dr. Sanjay Gupta has to say about them. That's coming up next.
Also ahead, health coverage on the decline in the U.S.? Details in biz.
Call them quackery, call them historic sex gadgets. Just don't call Jeanne Moos if you want to try them out. LIVE FROM hears all of this right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Health news now. Folks who don't like pills and shots are increasingly turning to sprays. But do they work? CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta does a fact check.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Getting your vitamins in pill form has become somewhat of a daily routine for many Americans. But how about also giving them in the form of a spray? Take a look at all these products here. These are called Vitamist.
There are various products for prenatal vitamins, women's health. There are immune system vitamins. They're all in the form of a spray. I actually have some of it right here as well.
Basically what you do is you just open that up, and spray that eight times a day into your mouth. I'll tell you right now, it doesn't taste so great. But a lot of people are starting to use products like this. Certainly FluMist, for example, became a very popular way of getting your flu vaccine.
Take a look at some of the numbers, it's not cheap, first of all. Twenty dollars to $36 a month is what it's going to cost you. That's about three times the cost of pills.
Also, eight spritzes a day, two every four hours, a lot of people have a hard time remembering taking a single pill. That's going to be a lot to remember. Also there's no data actually showing that it's any more effective than taking the pills themselves.
So why are they catching on in popularity in places like Wal-Mart and various other pharmacies across the country. One is that they may have some legitimate purpose. People who don't like swallowing pill, for example. There are people who may like to spray instead.
Also gastrointestinal problems. If you have some of those, you may want to take the spray instead of pill form. Or if you've had a recent operation, such as gastric bypass surgery where actually you need vitamins but can't take them, then this might be an option for you as well.
Needless to say, Vitamist is something that you can look for, pretty sure for soon. But you don't know whether or not it's going to be something that's any better than a pill in the long term.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's a big business day today. But did you know that sex improvement gadgets have been around for centuries. A provocative history lesson from Jeanne Moos coming up.
(MARKET REPORT)
PHILLIPS: From herbal aphrodisiacs to the potions of snake oil salesmen, products promising more and better sex are as old as the ages. Now some urologists have accumulated a bizarre little collection of gadgets. Of course our Jeanne Moos checked them all out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These days the come-ons come in e-mail, promising bigger, longer, stronger, but what's really long is the history of quackery.
To spark up your sex life, there have been gizmos ranging from the vibrating chair for women to the unisex violet ray machine with attachment that go places best left to your imagination.
DR. REINER ENGEL, AMERICAN UROLOGICAL MUSEUM: We haven't had any volunteer who is willing to have those sparks delivered.
MOOS: Here at the American Urological Association headquarters near Baltimore, even the flags are limp. The urological museum features head shakers like a kidney stone so big doctors had to take out the kidney.
At the just-opened quackery exhibit, you can find items like the Heidelberg belt. Guys, you can imagine where the loop goes. The belt delivers a small electrical charge that promises quick relief of all weaknesses.
MOOS (on camera): What is the most sort of blatant, dumbest piece of quackery you ever saw?
ENGEL: Probably a rectal dilator.
MOOS (voice-over): Yikes. Dr. Young's perfection comes in ever- larger sizes, guaranteed to cure ills ranging from insomnia to impotence.
ENGEL: Try one.
MOOS (on camera): Not on camera.
MOOS (voice-over): Here's a charmer intended to discourage nighttime arousal.
ENGEL: The teeth would dig in there and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MOOS (on camera): The Spermataria (ph) ring was sold in a Sears catalogue in 1903 for 25 cents.
MOOS (voice-over): As for the violet ray machine that delivers a tiny charge, it came with attachments to improve your eyesight, grow hair, fix your thyroid.
And then there's the infamous device even Austin Powers disowned. The exhibit's curator says it might work, but only if you used it all the time risking tissue damage.
ENGEL: If I take your tongue and put a couple of weights on it, and if you do it for a year, you have a tongue that hangs down to here.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, Baltimore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: From international image to courtroom defendant, the private at the center of the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal faces military justice.
Churning surf after a brush with Alex. We're live with the latest on the hurricane's move up the East Coast.
A monumental moment, Lady Liberty invites America back over for a visit. We're live from the post-9/11 celebration.
A battle for survival between a boy and a shark. The boy finishes the rest of the fishing story, ahead on LIVE FROM.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles is off. This hour of CNN LIVE FROM starts right now.
Up first this hour, abuse, disgrace and global outrage, just for fun. The U.S. Army's lead investigator in the Iraqi prisoner mistreatment scandal said the GI's captures on camera, quote, "didn't think it was that big a deal. They were joking around." We're following a hearing in North Carolina today that could lead to court- martial for one of the troops, 21-year-old, six-months-pregnant Lynndie England.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
