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Pakistan Intelligence Shows Possible Evidence Of Al Qaeda Operatives Contacting Individual/Individuals In U.S.; Bryant Victim May Opt For Civil Lawsuit; Kerry and Bush Campaigning In Iowa Today
Aired August 04, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to now welcome viewers of CNN International to this breaking news in the war on terror. We're going to go straight to CNN's Kelli Arena in Washington with the latest developments. What do you know, Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, two senior U.S. government sources tell CNN that intelligence found in Pakistan shows evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
These officials would not characterize that communication, but this information does lend some credibility to the concern that there may be al Qaeda operatives in place here in the United States.
Two senior Pakistani intelligence sources have told CNN that there is evidence that at least six individuals in the United States were contacted by al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan, but U.S. officials have not confirmed that information.
U.S. sources also say that there is other information from Pakistan which is separate from the communication that has led to several investigations in the United States, in an effort to uncover whether there are any individuals or cells plotting an attack on U.S. soil. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Kelli, do we know where these individuals were when they were contacted, anything about the whereabouts about where these individuals may be or may be living?
ARENA: No, I don't have that information. But I have been told that several FBI field offices are involved in investigations stemming from leads in Pakistan. So that led to several different locations, Kyra, not just one city.
PHILLIPS: Now, Tom Ridge, head of Homeland Security here in the United States, what has he said about possible sleeper cells or cells of al Qaeda being in the United States? Hasn't he come forward saying that the U.S. government doesn't believe that there are cells in the U.S.?
ARENA: Well, what he and other top officials have said very publicly is that they do not have any evidence of any operative cells or so-called sleeper cells here in the United States, but that law enforcement and intelligence officials are working on the presumption that they could be here. Because, as you know, Kyra, the borders, especially the Mexican border, very porous.
There may be people that have been in place since before the September 11th attacks just waiting for orders. So basically, no evidence of that, but they have always worked on the presumption that there are individuals here.
PHILLIPS: Final question, Kelli, before we move onto Pakistan. Any information about how these individuals either got into the United States, or are these individuals that have been in the United States, say, pre-9/11?
ARENA: We don't know.
PHILLIPS: All right, Kelli Arena working this story, breaking news story out of Washington right now. Kelli, thank you.
Now we want to take you live to Pakistan where Ash-har Quraishi standing by as this news gets out. Ash-har, why don't you just bring us up to date about what you know and your response there from Pakistan with regard to what Kelli Arena just told us.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the sources we've been speaking to in the intelligence agencies here in Pakistan have confirmed that. They word things just a little bit differently. We are told that from the information and the interrogations gathered after the arrest of the man identified as Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan.
Just again, Khan is the computer expert in his mid 20s whose computer gave us much of the information that we're told led to the heightened alert in New York, New Jersey, and Washington over the last few days. They are telling us that from those interrogations and from the evidence around Khan, there are indications that Khan had been in touch with several suspected al Qaeda operatives in the United States.
Now, we're also told that he may have been in touch with at least one senior al Qaeda member in the UK. Now, just overnight, there were raids in the United Kingdom in which about a dozen people were arrested. Intelligence officials here believe that that was a result of the information they provided to authorities there. Of course, the UK government is not confirming that.
But what's really happening here is that they're saying that there has been communication outside of Pakistan from the individuals who were arrested in the last few days, and particularly this man, Noor Khan, who's in custody right now. So we're being told that this communication -- we don't know when it happened. They're describing it as recent. However, they couldn't give us a specific timeframe, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, let's talk about the relationship right now as this information continues to develop. As we know, relations between Pakistan and the U.S., when it came to intelligence, at times, has been strained. What can you tell us about all these recent developments, from seizing this computer to, now, this information we're learning from Kelli Arena, Ash-har? Is this showing a lot of progress between Pakistan and the U.S. when it comes to sharing information and working on tracking down these terrorists together?
QURAISHI: It appears to be so. The Pakistani government appears to be very forthcoming, and they say they are cooperating to the fullest extent with the intelligence agencies in the United States, which led to a lot of the heightened alert that we're seeing over the last few days and a lot of the arrests that we've seen over the last few days, not only in the United States, but also in the United Kingdom.
So Pakistan is saying that it is sharing as much information as it can, as quickly as it can, with its allies in the war on terrorism, which is why they say we've seen the kinds of reactions in the United States and in the United Kingdom over the last few days.
They're also telling us, these intelligence sources, that they're seeing a push. Now, traditionally, we believe that there's been a high concentration of suspected al Qaeda operatives in the northwest of Pakistan in the tribal areas.
We are seeing from intelligence sources that there's been a push towards the center of Pakistan, toward central Panjab, where some of these arrests have taken place in the last few weeks -- Lahore, Ladross (ph), both in central Pakistan, in larger cities.
Some experts say that is because they want their communications to be easier. It's much harder to get information out of the tribal areas than it is from these areas where there is access to the Internet as well. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Ash-har Quraishi live from Islamabad, Pakistan, thank you so much. And just to quickly bring you up to date if you're just tuning in, breaking news, we are telling you, out of Washington via our Kelli Arena.
And that is two senior U.S. government sources now telling CNN that intelligence has been found in Pakistan showing evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
That's now raising questions on whether al Qaeda sleeper cells do indeed exist, if this is the evidence that the United States has been looking for with regard to al Qaeda cells existing here in the United States. Let's get some more insight on this new information and its possible consequences.
Let's bring in M.J. Gohel. He's CEO of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, an intelligence think tank based in London. M.J., first of all, your reaction to this news.
M.J. GOHEL, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, I think it's certainly worrying news, but it's not surprising news, for the simple reason that it's been known for some time that 9/11 was not a one-off attack on the USA. It was a declaration of war on the world's most powerful democracy, and there would be other follow-on attacks.
And let's not forget that just a few months ago, a number of arrests were made in the USA of a group of people known as the "Virginia Jihad." These were individuals linked to the Pakistani terror group Lashkar-e-Toiba.
So, it's obviously more than likely that there are individuals in the USA who have come in either from outside or who are homegrown terrorists.
PHILLIPS: Well, this is the evidence. Obviously, we were talking about this with Kelli Arena that possibly Homeland Security, the department, has been looking for, because Tom Ridge has not been able to come forward and say, "We know absolutely for sure that there are cells of terrorists, al Qaeda terrorists living in the United States."
So now, with this information coming forward, do you believe that this could be the evidence that the U.S. has been looking for to link various threats, various chatter to actual individuals working, living, breathing in the United States right now, planning attack on the U.S.?
GOHEL: Well, this is obviously the key issue here. Have we got names of individuals? Do we know their locations? And unfortunately, even if we have, the trouble is that there are so many different cells, and they're autonomous cells. So it's a never-ending battle.
But I think the other interesting thing that comes out of this report is that once again, we are discovering that al Qaeda, leading al Qaeda figures are being captured by the CIA and FBI in Pakistan, and these individuals are not living in the tribal areas or along the Afghan-Pakistan border, as we've been led to believe in the past.
But all these individuals from the last year-and-a-half have been captured in major Pakistani cities, and sometimes, living quite openly.
The question is: Why do these individuals decide to live in Pakistan, and why do they feel so comfortable there in the middle of a war on terrorism, and General Musharraf is shoulder to shoulder with President Bush?
PHILLIPS: That's an interesting point. It's something we should definitely talk more about. And you also brought up -- let's talk about that some more. But let me ask you about, I guess you could say, the al Qaeda hard drive. With the seizure of this al Qaeda computer expert, this computer, we're now seeing even a number of reports that have come out, even recently in Atlantic Monthly magazine, e-mails and correspondents between Osama bin Laden, al- Zarqawi, other Al-Qaeda leaders.
What are we finding out now about how these terrorists are using e-mails and the computer to organize a lot of these cells and organize a lot of terrorist activity? And what does it say about maybe a progression on the side of intelligence that they're able to track this more efficiently, encrypt these messages, and be able to tell us more about security?
GOHEL: Well, there are several interesting issues here. The first is that Naeem Noor Khan is a young man who was captured on July the 13th. That's well over three weeks ago. One has to ask why it has taken so long to obtain this kind of evidence. Three-and-a-half weeks is quite a long time, considering that lives may be at stake.
The second issue here is that a computer is very useful tool for the terrorist, used to communicate worldwide. It's so easy on the Internet, e-mails, and so on. The advantage for security forces is that even if a terrorist deletes the information, it may disappear from the computer screen, but it remains on the hard drive.
So counter-terrorism agencies can extract that information. But I think it's becoming quite clear that one of the main means of communication is through the computer. And it would be very useful to find out who else this young man has been in contact with, not only in the USA, but obviously, this is a transnational problem. He may well have been in contact with many other individuals right across the world.
PHILLIPS: And real quickly -- we're going to bring Kelli Arena back into the mix here -- but I want to ask you, on that point of Pakistan, you talk about this relationship between Musharraf and President Bush, and why working so closely, and are they working hard enough to track down these terrorists, and I'm talking about the Pakistanis. We must keep in mind too that it was Pakistan that did make these arrests recently.
GOHEL: Are you addressing this to me?
PHILLIPS: M.J., yes, go ahead, M.J.
GOHEL: Oh, OK, yes, well, indeed, but these arrests have been made on the basis of information provided by the CIA and FBI, who have been working very hard in tracking down these individuals in Pakistan. The thing is this -- that none of these arrests have been made in some haystack in the tribal areas. These individuals are living openly in the city.
Now, take the Tanzanian individual captured about 10 days ago, Ahmed Ghailani. Now, Ahmed Ghailani is a Tanzanian, an African. He's been living in Pakistan, in a city, for the last six years, together with his family and an entourage of some 12, 13 people. He would stick out like a sore thumb. Why has it taken six years to arrest this man? There are worrying questions here.
PHILLIPS: M.J. Gohel, I want to ask you to standby, CEO of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, an international intelligence expert. M.J., thank you so much. We'll ask you to standby.
Let's bring our Kelli Arena back into the fold here. She's the one that broke this story about this communication between terrorists, possibly in Pakistan and here in the United States. Kelli, you're getting more information now? ARENA: Well, Kyra, I think it's very important to underscore that there was absolutely no characterization, at least from the U.S. officials that I spoke to, of exactly who this individual or individuals are thought to be here in the United States. There was a communication, and as I said, that does underscore and give some credibility to the concern that there are al Qaeda operatives here in the United States.
But none of the U.S. officials that I've spoken to have gone so far as to describe those individuals as members of a sleeper cell, or as members or individuals involved in any operational plot. That is what is under investigation at this time, trying to pursue those leads, track down individuals, to find out if there are people in the United States that are poised to attack.
As you know, we have heard from several law enforcement and intelligence officials who say that they firmly believe, based on intelligence, that al Qaeda is in the operational mode, that they are ready to go, and they're very concerned about the timeframe between the end of this month and the middle of next month.
So, a very serious concern, but still, nothing, no evidence to suggest, at least that we have uncovered, that they have their finger on anyone or that they're poised to make an arrest, or that they've even identified anyone as a member of a cell. And I think that's very important to point out, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: So, let's talk about what is so important about pointing out the fact that this communication, then, is being talked about.
ARENA: Because it lent to the urgency, Kyra. If you have a communication between someone who is a suspected al Qaeda operative, someone who's passing on what has been described as very pertinent and important information from al Qaeda leadership to al Qaeda operatives globally, then if this database, if this individual is also communicating with someone, or persons, here in the United States, then that's a very serious concern, Kyra.
That's something that they have to look at and they have to pursue, and that's the first time that we've heard any connection between this intelligence coup in Pakistan directly linked back to the United States. As you know, a lot of what was uncovered was also surveillance of many sites here in the U.S.
The surveillance notes were written, we're told, in perfect English, suggesting that someone had spent a great deal of time in the United States. So are those people that conducted that surveillance still here? That's an open question. Are there people that are poised to attack? That too remains an open question. But it does lend some seriousness and credibility to that belief, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Kelli Arena out of Washington, thanks so much. Also, M.J. Gohel from London, our international intelligence analyst, both of you, thank you so much. We'll continue to work this story. We'd also like to thank our CNN International viewers for tuning in. We will continue to follow this breaking news about intelligence sources from Pakistan showing evidence of suspected al Qaeda in Pakistan contacted individuals or an individual in the United States.
It's a story we're still working for you here on CNN. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Now to Colorado, where a bombshell development may be in the offing at the Kobe Bryant rape case. CNN's Gary Tuchman has followed this case from the very beginning -- of course, joins me with the latest. And I guess you sort of knew that this news was coming.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nevertheless, though, it's fairly dramatic. Thirteen months after this alleged crime happened, after hundreds of hours of pretrial hearings, the possibility now exists, officially, on the record, that this criminal trial might not happen.
Today, I talked to John Clune, who is one of the attorneys for the 20-year-old alleged victim, and he says because his client has lost faith in the court system that it is now, quote, "up in the air whether she will go forward for a criminal trial."
He says it's difficult for her to proceed with this case after three errors that the court has made, accidentally sending out her name and some information about the case on an official Web site and in e-mails to reporters.
The most recent mistake was just last week. A mistake last month led to 200 pages of transcripts that were in a closed-door hearing being sent out to reporters and being reported on television news. Now, it's important to point out that John Clune tells us that it would be inappropriate to say right now she is definitely out of the case. However, it's being actively considered.
They hope to make a decision within days. The man you see walking down the hall right there is John Clune, who is one of the defense attorneys for this 20-year-old woman from Eagle, Colorado. Now, Clune and Lin Wood, who is his associate -- he's based in Atlanta, Georgia -- they are saying they are considering a civil lawsuit, and that civil lawsuit could be filed in a matter of days also.
Either way, they say, they will seek justice for their client, whether it's done criminally, civilly, or both. But Kyra, this is the first time that, on the record, people close to the case -- and these people are close, they're representing the accuser -- are saying there's a possibility they won't go forward.
The government could still try the case without her. Practically speaking, though, very unlikely if she's not going to take the stand, if she's not going to participate, if they can have a prosecution. PHILLIPS: All right, let's widen this discussion. Let's bring one more person in -- former Denver prosecutor and current Criminal Defense Attorney Craig Silverman. He joins us now with some perspective. Craig, listening to what Gary has brought to us here today, are you surprised by this?
CRAIG SILVERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Not at all. It seems part of an elaborate exit strategy. I think it's a little unfortunate that they are scapegoating this judge and this court. Yes, they have made mistakes, but they have not made up the facts, the devastating facts that we read about in that transcript the other night.
That's the real reason, I submit, why they want out of the criminal case, because any competent attorney -- and John Clune and Lin Wood are certainly competent attorneys -- can see the writing on the wall. There's very little chance that the prosecution can possibly prevail in this case, given the facts as we know them right now.
PHILLIPS: You say "elaborate exit strategy." Do you think this is all about a young woman not having faith in a court system, or do you think when it comes down to it, there's just not enough evidence here to convict Kobe Bryant?
SILVERMAN: I think the latter. I think when it comes right down to it, I'm sure that it's been sad days when the court made the mistakes. But whether we learned about Mr. X's DNA yesterday or three weeks from now at trial, the facts weren't going to change. And even though this was new information to us, the attorneys involved, including the accuser's attorneys, have known about this for many months.
As I said, they can see the writing on the wall. They know there's very little chance that the criminal case would have a happy outcome. I'm not sure a civil case would either, but they know that Kobe Bryant really doesn't want to go through a civil case. And when you're talking about the civil justice system, you're talking about money. That's what we're talking about right now.
PHILLIPS: So, you think this all comes down to money. And are we going to start seeing the interviews from both sides? Are we going to start seeing the hounding of, you know, big money deals for the big interview? Is this going to turn into what we saw, say, with O.J. Simpson and that whole civil situation?
SILVERMAN: Well, I don't think it will be like that, because you know, there were really and truly established victims in that case who wanted, more than anything, justice, as opposed to money. Indeed, they never got money.
But unlike O.J. Simpson, Kobe Bryant just signed a $136 million deal, and he has a lot of money, and perhaps he's willing to pay some money to make this go away.
I say that not knowing whether this young girl was raped or not at Cordillera. Only two people really know that for sure. PHILLIPS: Craig Silverman, thank you so much. Criminal defense attorney there with some insight. Final thoughts, Gary?
TUCHMAN: I do want to tell you, Kyra, that a spokeswoman for the district attorney is telling us that they have no indications that this trial will not proceed -- that's a quote. They say they've talked to Mr. Clune and the alleged victim, and they are planning to proceed.
But that really is something they need to say right now either way, because they have sent out a thousand jury summons, jurors are sending in questionnaires, and until a definite decision is made, they have to go on the record saying this is going to happen.
PHILLIPS: Gary Tuchman, thanks so much.
Well, for a few hours this morning, the center of the political universe was in a town in Iowa. Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry descended on Davenport today, trying to rally the faithful. White House correspondent Dana Bash, traveling with the Kerry campaign, has more on the dueling rallies -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra. Well, certainly, as you may understand, many people in Iowa certainly are not unaccustomed to seeing politicians descend on them. They, of course, have the first, in the nation, caucuses. But even for some hardened veterans here, talking to them, even this was something to behold.
As you mentioned, John Kerry and George W. Bush were here at the same time. They're now heading out. But when they were here having their event, they were practically simultaneous, about three blocks from one another. Now, as for Senator Kerry, his event was somewhat intimate.
It was a discussion with some CEOs about fiscal responsibility, or irresponsibility, as he sees the way the president's handling the economy, and his chance to talk up his status in the business community as he discusses it. But certainly, you can listen to what each candidate, particularly, let's start with healthcare, on how this dual is going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They've had four years. They have no plan, not only to provide coverage to the people who don't have it, which is important to America, but to lower the costs for everybody else. In the past three years, health premiums have gone up $2,600.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Meanwhile, just down the street, President Bush had quite a different kind of event. He had a large outdoor rally, somewhat similar to what we've actually seen Senator Kerry have as he's made his way across the country. But his line on healthcare was, as you can imagine, quite different. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To improve healthcare, we must end the frivolous lawsuits that raise healthcare costs and drive doctors out of medicine. You cannot be pro-patient, and pro-doctor, and pro-trial lawyer at the same time. You have to choose. My opponent made his choice, and he put him on the ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, Kyra, just to give you a sense of how each candidate dealt with the situation, President Bush didn't acknowledge it at all. He didn't even make mention of the fact that Senator Kerry was just about a stone's throw away.
Senator Kerry, however, did. He joked with reporters that he's glad that President Bush is here. He even made a play on the president's new stump line at the beginning of his event. But not to be outdone by the politics of imagery and the fact that President Bush had those crowds around him, Senator Kerry did make an unscheduled stop with some construction workers.
And also, after that, he took his bus, and all of the busses behind it, right by the president's event. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Dana Bash, thank you so much. Well, a lot of voters still don't know who they'd like to see win in the White House in November. There are only a few million undeciders, but that's enough to make the race tight in about 18 battleground states.
Ken Rudin, the political editor for National Public Radio, is here to look at what it will take to sway those folks who haven't made up their minds yet. Why haven't they made up their minds, Ken?
KEN RUDIN, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Well, a lot of them, I think, are Bush voters. Perhaps a lot of them voted for Bush in 2000, and because of the downturn in the economy, uncertainty about the war, and the fact that John Kerry has not sold them over yet. There may be some bounce coming out of the convention, although we haven't seen it yet.
But I think a lot of them are just unsure about the last three years. They've been a very calamitous three years, and I guess they're just waiting to be sold. But a lot of voters, historically, don't decide until the debates in the fall.
PHILLIPS: Well, you say take a look at 2000. Obviously, things right now, very tight, very unpredictable. You look at both campaigns and this deficit map that we've been talking about. On that map, Iowa -- let's talk about the significance of Iowa, maybe a little historical perspective, like you mentioned a little in 2000, and where we are right now.
RUDIN: Well, I mean, of course, every state, you know, could mean the ballgame. We saw in 2000 that had Al Gore won New Hampshire or West Virginia or something like that with only a handful of electoral votes, he would be president today. But having said that, Iowa's a very interesting state. You know, historically, it should be a Republican state, it's in the Midwest, a lot of veterans, a lot of seniors, many of whom vote Republican.
But Iowa's gone Democratic the last four times. Al Gore, Bill Clinton twice, and Michael Dukakis all carried Iowa because of faltering economic situations. And while George W. Bush will argue that the economy has improved somewhat in Iowa, the farm prices are up, you know, the farm prices are good, the war is a very serious issue there. And again, historically also, even though there's a left wing antiwar contingency among the Democrats -- but Republicans have never been hawkish here.
Ronald Reagan did not do well in Iowa in 1984, even though he won the state. It was one of his worst states. Chuck Grassley, the senior senator from Iowa, a Republican, Republican stalwart, voted against the Gulf War in '91. So there is a doveish contingency here in Iowa -- here in Iowa? I'm sitting in Washington -- in Iowa, here in Iowa...
PHILLIPS: You've been to Iowa, that's OK.
RUDIN: I've been there, I have been there.
PHILLIPS: And you know, you bring up a good point. I mean, you've got the highest unemployment rate in Davenport. You've got the Air National Guard unit. You've got a lot of folks that can relate to the casualties suffered on behalf of soldiers from that area. So you can see why Bush and Kerry would want to win these people over and hit those issues.
Is it still in a dead heat or is one -- do you think Bush, Kerry, is someone pulling ahead?
RUDIN: I would be very skeptical of any poll that showed anybody pulling ahead. Although, I did see a poll just today that showed President Bush with a slight advantage in Iowa. But you know, again, we have to wait for the debates, as we will.
We have to wait for any kind of change in the economy, any kind of campaign changes that will go on, that historically will go on, as they will for the next couple months.
PHILLIPS: Political editor for NPR -- you can also checkout his column, all you political junkies -- Ken Rudin, thanks so much.
RUDIN: Not in Iowa.
PHILLIPS: Not in Iowa, but in Washington... but he knows Iowa.
RUDIN: That's right, I've heard of it.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Ken.
RUDIN: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: Well, more on the battle to woo voters. Coming up just an hour from now, Judy Woodruff's "INSIDE POLITICS."
We're going to take you there live to the campaign trail, 3:30 p.m. Eastern time. The prosecution making its case in a hearing for Army Private Lynndie England, accused in the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. We're live from Fort Bragg just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 4, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to now welcome viewers of CNN International to this breaking news in the war on terror. We're going to go straight to CNN's Kelli Arena in Washington with the latest developments. What do you know, Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, two senior U.S. government sources tell CNN that intelligence found in Pakistan shows evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
These officials would not characterize that communication, but this information does lend some credibility to the concern that there may be al Qaeda operatives in place here in the United States.
Two senior Pakistani intelligence sources have told CNN that there is evidence that at least six individuals in the United States were contacted by al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan, but U.S. officials have not confirmed that information.
U.S. sources also say that there is other information from Pakistan which is separate from the communication that has led to several investigations in the United States, in an effort to uncover whether there are any individuals or cells plotting an attack on U.S. soil. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Kelli, do we know where these individuals were when they were contacted, anything about the whereabouts about where these individuals may be or may be living?
ARENA: No, I don't have that information. But I have been told that several FBI field offices are involved in investigations stemming from leads in Pakistan. So that led to several different locations, Kyra, not just one city.
PHILLIPS: Now, Tom Ridge, head of Homeland Security here in the United States, what has he said about possible sleeper cells or cells of al Qaeda being in the United States? Hasn't he come forward saying that the U.S. government doesn't believe that there are cells in the U.S.?
ARENA: Well, what he and other top officials have said very publicly is that they do not have any evidence of any operative cells or so-called sleeper cells here in the United States, but that law enforcement and intelligence officials are working on the presumption that they could be here. Because, as you know, Kyra, the borders, especially the Mexican border, very porous.
There may be people that have been in place since before the September 11th attacks just waiting for orders. So basically, no evidence of that, but they have always worked on the presumption that there are individuals here.
PHILLIPS: Final question, Kelli, before we move onto Pakistan. Any information about how these individuals either got into the United States, or are these individuals that have been in the United States, say, pre-9/11?
ARENA: We don't know.
PHILLIPS: All right, Kelli Arena working this story, breaking news story out of Washington right now. Kelli, thank you.
Now we want to take you live to Pakistan where Ash-har Quraishi standing by as this news gets out. Ash-har, why don't you just bring us up to date about what you know and your response there from Pakistan with regard to what Kelli Arena just told us.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the sources we've been speaking to in the intelligence agencies here in Pakistan have confirmed that. They word things just a little bit differently. We are told that from the information and the interrogations gathered after the arrest of the man identified as Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan.
Just again, Khan is the computer expert in his mid 20s whose computer gave us much of the information that we're told led to the heightened alert in New York, New Jersey, and Washington over the last few days. They are telling us that from those interrogations and from the evidence around Khan, there are indications that Khan had been in touch with several suspected al Qaeda operatives in the United States.
Now, we're also told that he may have been in touch with at least one senior al Qaeda member in the UK. Now, just overnight, there were raids in the United Kingdom in which about a dozen people were arrested. Intelligence officials here believe that that was a result of the information they provided to authorities there. Of course, the UK government is not confirming that.
But what's really happening here is that they're saying that there has been communication outside of Pakistan from the individuals who were arrested in the last few days, and particularly this man, Noor Khan, who's in custody right now. So we're being told that this communication -- we don't know when it happened. They're describing it as recent. However, they couldn't give us a specific timeframe, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, let's talk about the relationship right now as this information continues to develop. As we know, relations between Pakistan and the U.S., when it came to intelligence, at times, has been strained. What can you tell us about all these recent developments, from seizing this computer to, now, this information we're learning from Kelli Arena, Ash-har? Is this showing a lot of progress between Pakistan and the U.S. when it comes to sharing information and working on tracking down these terrorists together?
QURAISHI: It appears to be so. The Pakistani government appears to be very forthcoming, and they say they are cooperating to the fullest extent with the intelligence agencies in the United States, which led to a lot of the heightened alert that we're seeing over the last few days and a lot of the arrests that we've seen over the last few days, not only in the United States, but also in the United Kingdom.
So Pakistan is saying that it is sharing as much information as it can, as quickly as it can, with its allies in the war on terrorism, which is why they say we've seen the kinds of reactions in the United States and in the United Kingdom over the last few days.
They're also telling us, these intelligence sources, that they're seeing a push. Now, traditionally, we believe that there's been a high concentration of suspected al Qaeda operatives in the northwest of Pakistan in the tribal areas.
We are seeing from intelligence sources that there's been a push towards the center of Pakistan, toward central Panjab, where some of these arrests have taken place in the last few weeks -- Lahore, Ladross (ph), both in central Pakistan, in larger cities.
Some experts say that is because they want their communications to be easier. It's much harder to get information out of the tribal areas than it is from these areas where there is access to the Internet as well. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Ash-har Quraishi live from Islamabad, Pakistan, thank you so much. And just to quickly bring you up to date if you're just tuning in, breaking news, we are telling you, out of Washington via our Kelli Arena.
And that is two senior U.S. government sources now telling CNN that intelligence has been found in Pakistan showing evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
That's now raising questions on whether al Qaeda sleeper cells do indeed exist, if this is the evidence that the United States has been looking for with regard to al Qaeda cells existing here in the United States. Let's get some more insight on this new information and its possible consequences.
Let's bring in M.J. Gohel. He's CEO of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, an intelligence think tank based in London. M.J., first of all, your reaction to this news.
M.J. GOHEL, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, I think it's certainly worrying news, but it's not surprising news, for the simple reason that it's been known for some time that 9/11 was not a one-off attack on the USA. It was a declaration of war on the world's most powerful democracy, and there would be other follow-on attacks.
And let's not forget that just a few months ago, a number of arrests were made in the USA of a group of people known as the "Virginia Jihad." These were individuals linked to the Pakistani terror group Lashkar-e-Toiba.
So, it's obviously more than likely that there are individuals in the USA who have come in either from outside or who are homegrown terrorists.
PHILLIPS: Well, this is the evidence. Obviously, we were talking about this with Kelli Arena that possibly Homeland Security, the department, has been looking for, because Tom Ridge has not been able to come forward and say, "We know absolutely for sure that there are cells of terrorists, al Qaeda terrorists living in the United States."
So now, with this information coming forward, do you believe that this could be the evidence that the U.S. has been looking for to link various threats, various chatter to actual individuals working, living, breathing in the United States right now, planning attack on the U.S.?
GOHEL: Well, this is obviously the key issue here. Have we got names of individuals? Do we know their locations? And unfortunately, even if we have, the trouble is that there are so many different cells, and they're autonomous cells. So it's a never-ending battle.
But I think the other interesting thing that comes out of this report is that once again, we are discovering that al Qaeda, leading al Qaeda figures are being captured by the CIA and FBI in Pakistan, and these individuals are not living in the tribal areas or along the Afghan-Pakistan border, as we've been led to believe in the past.
But all these individuals from the last year-and-a-half have been captured in major Pakistani cities, and sometimes, living quite openly.
The question is: Why do these individuals decide to live in Pakistan, and why do they feel so comfortable there in the middle of a war on terrorism, and General Musharraf is shoulder to shoulder with President Bush?
PHILLIPS: That's an interesting point. It's something we should definitely talk more about. And you also brought up -- let's talk about that some more. But let me ask you about, I guess you could say, the al Qaeda hard drive. With the seizure of this al Qaeda computer expert, this computer, we're now seeing even a number of reports that have come out, even recently in Atlantic Monthly magazine, e-mails and correspondents between Osama bin Laden, al- Zarqawi, other Al-Qaeda leaders.
What are we finding out now about how these terrorists are using e-mails and the computer to organize a lot of these cells and organize a lot of terrorist activity? And what does it say about maybe a progression on the side of intelligence that they're able to track this more efficiently, encrypt these messages, and be able to tell us more about security?
GOHEL: Well, there are several interesting issues here. The first is that Naeem Noor Khan is a young man who was captured on July the 13th. That's well over three weeks ago. One has to ask why it has taken so long to obtain this kind of evidence. Three-and-a-half weeks is quite a long time, considering that lives may be at stake.
The second issue here is that a computer is very useful tool for the terrorist, used to communicate worldwide. It's so easy on the Internet, e-mails, and so on. The advantage for security forces is that even if a terrorist deletes the information, it may disappear from the computer screen, but it remains on the hard drive.
So counter-terrorism agencies can extract that information. But I think it's becoming quite clear that one of the main means of communication is through the computer. And it would be very useful to find out who else this young man has been in contact with, not only in the USA, but obviously, this is a transnational problem. He may well have been in contact with many other individuals right across the world.
PHILLIPS: And real quickly -- we're going to bring Kelli Arena back into the mix here -- but I want to ask you, on that point of Pakistan, you talk about this relationship between Musharraf and President Bush, and why working so closely, and are they working hard enough to track down these terrorists, and I'm talking about the Pakistanis. We must keep in mind too that it was Pakistan that did make these arrests recently.
GOHEL: Are you addressing this to me?
PHILLIPS: M.J., yes, go ahead, M.J.
GOHEL: Oh, OK, yes, well, indeed, but these arrests have been made on the basis of information provided by the CIA and FBI, who have been working very hard in tracking down these individuals in Pakistan. The thing is this -- that none of these arrests have been made in some haystack in the tribal areas. These individuals are living openly in the city.
Now, take the Tanzanian individual captured about 10 days ago, Ahmed Ghailani. Now, Ahmed Ghailani is a Tanzanian, an African. He's been living in Pakistan, in a city, for the last six years, together with his family and an entourage of some 12, 13 people. He would stick out like a sore thumb. Why has it taken six years to arrest this man? There are worrying questions here.
PHILLIPS: M.J. Gohel, I want to ask you to standby, CEO of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, an international intelligence expert. M.J., thank you so much. We'll ask you to standby.
Let's bring our Kelli Arena back into the fold here. She's the one that broke this story about this communication between terrorists, possibly in Pakistan and here in the United States. Kelli, you're getting more information now? ARENA: Well, Kyra, I think it's very important to underscore that there was absolutely no characterization, at least from the U.S. officials that I spoke to, of exactly who this individual or individuals are thought to be here in the United States. There was a communication, and as I said, that does underscore and give some credibility to the concern that there are al Qaeda operatives here in the United States.
But none of the U.S. officials that I've spoken to have gone so far as to describe those individuals as members of a sleeper cell, or as members or individuals involved in any operational plot. That is what is under investigation at this time, trying to pursue those leads, track down individuals, to find out if there are people in the United States that are poised to attack.
As you know, we have heard from several law enforcement and intelligence officials who say that they firmly believe, based on intelligence, that al Qaeda is in the operational mode, that they are ready to go, and they're very concerned about the timeframe between the end of this month and the middle of next month.
So, a very serious concern, but still, nothing, no evidence to suggest, at least that we have uncovered, that they have their finger on anyone or that they're poised to make an arrest, or that they've even identified anyone as a member of a cell. And I think that's very important to point out, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: So, let's talk about what is so important about pointing out the fact that this communication, then, is being talked about.
ARENA: Because it lent to the urgency, Kyra. If you have a communication between someone who is a suspected al Qaeda operative, someone who's passing on what has been described as very pertinent and important information from al Qaeda leadership to al Qaeda operatives globally, then if this database, if this individual is also communicating with someone, or persons, here in the United States, then that's a very serious concern, Kyra.
That's something that they have to look at and they have to pursue, and that's the first time that we've heard any connection between this intelligence coup in Pakistan directly linked back to the United States. As you know, a lot of what was uncovered was also surveillance of many sites here in the U.S.
The surveillance notes were written, we're told, in perfect English, suggesting that someone had spent a great deal of time in the United States. So are those people that conducted that surveillance still here? That's an open question. Are there people that are poised to attack? That too remains an open question. But it does lend some seriousness and credibility to that belief, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Kelli Arena out of Washington, thanks so much. Also, M.J. Gohel from London, our international intelligence analyst, both of you, thank you so much. We'll continue to work this story. We'd also like to thank our CNN International viewers for tuning in. We will continue to follow this breaking news about intelligence sources from Pakistan showing evidence of suspected al Qaeda in Pakistan contacted individuals or an individual in the United States.
It's a story we're still working for you here on CNN. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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PHILLIPS: Now to Colorado, where a bombshell development may be in the offing at the Kobe Bryant rape case. CNN's Gary Tuchman has followed this case from the very beginning -- of course, joins me with the latest. And I guess you sort of knew that this news was coming.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nevertheless, though, it's fairly dramatic. Thirteen months after this alleged crime happened, after hundreds of hours of pretrial hearings, the possibility now exists, officially, on the record, that this criminal trial might not happen.
Today, I talked to John Clune, who is one of the attorneys for the 20-year-old alleged victim, and he says because his client has lost faith in the court system that it is now, quote, "up in the air whether she will go forward for a criminal trial."
He says it's difficult for her to proceed with this case after three errors that the court has made, accidentally sending out her name and some information about the case on an official Web site and in e-mails to reporters.
The most recent mistake was just last week. A mistake last month led to 200 pages of transcripts that were in a closed-door hearing being sent out to reporters and being reported on television news. Now, it's important to point out that John Clune tells us that it would be inappropriate to say right now she is definitely out of the case. However, it's being actively considered.
They hope to make a decision within days. The man you see walking down the hall right there is John Clune, who is one of the defense attorneys for this 20-year-old woman from Eagle, Colorado. Now, Clune and Lin Wood, who is his associate -- he's based in Atlanta, Georgia -- they are saying they are considering a civil lawsuit, and that civil lawsuit could be filed in a matter of days also.
Either way, they say, they will seek justice for their client, whether it's done criminally, civilly, or both. But Kyra, this is the first time that, on the record, people close to the case -- and these people are close, they're representing the accuser -- are saying there's a possibility they won't go forward.
The government could still try the case without her. Practically speaking, though, very unlikely if she's not going to take the stand, if she's not going to participate, if they can have a prosecution. PHILLIPS: All right, let's widen this discussion. Let's bring one more person in -- former Denver prosecutor and current Criminal Defense Attorney Craig Silverman. He joins us now with some perspective. Craig, listening to what Gary has brought to us here today, are you surprised by this?
CRAIG SILVERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Not at all. It seems part of an elaborate exit strategy. I think it's a little unfortunate that they are scapegoating this judge and this court. Yes, they have made mistakes, but they have not made up the facts, the devastating facts that we read about in that transcript the other night.
That's the real reason, I submit, why they want out of the criminal case, because any competent attorney -- and John Clune and Lin Wood are certainly competent attorneys -- can see the writing on the wall. There's very little chance that the prosecution can possibly prevail in this case, given the facts as we know them right now.
PHILLIPS: You say "elaborate exit strategy." Do you think this is all about a young woman not having faith in a court system, or do you think when it comes down to it, there's just not enough evidence here to convict Kobe Bryant?
SILVERMAN: I think the latter. I think when it comes right down to it, I'm sure that it's been sad days when the court made the mistakes. But whether we learned about Mr. X's DNA yesterday or three weeks from now at trial, the facts weren't going to change. And even though this was new information to us, the attorneys involved, including the accuser's attorneys, have known about this for many months.
As I said, they can see the writing on the wall. They know there's very little chance that the criminal case would have a happy outcome. I'm not sure a civil case would either, but they know that Kobe Bryant really doesn't want to go through a civil case. And when you're talking about the civil justice system, you're talking about money. That's what we're talking about right now.
PHILLIPS: So, you think this all comes down to money. And are we going to start seeing the interviews from both sides? Are we going to start seeing the hounding of, you know, big money deals for the big interview? Is this going to turn into what we saw, say, with O.J. Simpson and that whole civil situation?
SILVERMAN: Well, I don't think it will be like that, because you know, there were really and truly established victims in that case who wanted, more than anything, justice, as opposed to money. Indeed, they never got money.
But unlike O.J. Simpson, Kobe Bryant just signed a $136 million deal, and he has a lot of money, and perhaps he's willing to pay some money to make this go away.
I say that not knowing whether this young girl was raped or not at Cordillera. Only two people really know that for sure. PHILLIPS: Craig Silverman, thank you so much. Criminal defense attorney there with some insight. Final thoughts, Gary?
TUCHMAN: I do want to tell you, Kyra, that a spokeswoman for the district attorney is telling us that they have no indications that this trial will not proceed -- that's a quote. They say they've talked to Mr. Clune and the alleged victim, and they are planning to proceed.
But that really is something they need to say right now either way, because they have sent out a thousand jury summons, jurors are sending in questionnaires, and until a definite decision is made, they have to go on the record saying this is going to happen.
PHILLIPS: Gary Tuchman, thanks so much.
Well, for a few hours this morning, the center of the political universe was in a town in Iowa. Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry descended on Davenport today, trying to rally the faithful. White House correspondent Dana Bash, traveling with the Kerry campaign, has more on the dueling rallies -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra. Well, certainly, as you may understand, many people in Iowa certainly are not unaccustomed to seeing politicians descend on them. They, of course, have the first, in the nation, caucuses. But even for some hardened veterans here, talking to them, even this was something to behold.
As you mentioned, John Kerry and George W. Bush were here at the same time. They're now heading out. But when they were here having their event, they were practically simultaneous, about three blocks from one another. Now, as for Senator Kerry, his event was somewhat intimate.
It was a discussion with some CEOs about fiscal responsibility, or irresponsibility, as he sees the way the president's handling the economy, and his chance to talk up his status in the business community as he discusses it. But certainly, you can listen to what each candidate, particularly, let's start with healthcare, on how this dual is going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They've had four years. They have no plan, not only to provide coverage to the people who don't have it, which is important to America, but to lower the costs for everybody else. In the past three years, health premiums have gone up $2,600.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Meanwhile, just down the street, President Bush had quite a different kind of event. He had a large outdoor rally, somewhat similar to what we've actually seen Senator Kerry have as he's made his way across the country. But his line on healthcare was, as you can imagine, quite different. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To improve healthcare, we must end the frivolous lawsuits that raise healthcare costs and drive doctors out of medicine. You cannot be pro-patient, and pro-doctor, and pro-trial lawyer at the same time. You have to choose. My opponent made his choice, and he put him on the ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, Kyra, just to give you a sense of how each candidate dealt with the situation, President Bush didn't acknowledge it at all. He didn't even make mention of the fact that Senator Kerry was just about a stone's throw away.
Senator Kerry, however, did. He joked with reporters that he's glad that President Bush is here. He even made a play on the president's new stump line at the beginning of his event. But not to be outdone by the politics of imagery and the fact that President Bush had those crowds around him, Senator Kerry did make an unscheduled stop with some construction workers.
And also, after that, he took his bus, and all of the busses behind it, right by the president's event. Kyra...
PHILLIPS: Dana Bash, thank you so much. Well, a lot of voters still don't know who they'd like to see win in the White House in November. There are only a few million undeciders, but that's enough to make the race tight in about 18 battleground states.
Ken Rudin, the political editor for National Public Radio, is here to look at what it will take to sway those folks who haven't made up their minds yet. Why haven't they made up their minds, Ken?
KEN RUDIN, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Well, a lot of them, I think, are Bush voters. Perhaps a lot of them voted for Bush in 2000, and because of the downturn in the economy, uncertainty about the war, and the fact that John Kerry has not sold them over yet. There may be some bounce coming out of the convention, although we haven't seen it yet.
But I think a lot of them are just unsure about the last three years. They've been a very calamitous three years, and I guess they're just waiting to be sold. But a lot of voters, historically, don't decide until the debates in the fall.
PHILLIPS: Well, you say take a look at 2000. Obviously, things right now, very tight, very unpredictable. You look at both campaigns and this deficit map that we've been talking about. On that map, Iowa -- let's talk about the significance of Iowa, maybe a little historical perspective, like you mentioned a little in 2000, and where we are right now.
RUDIN: Well, I mean, of course, every state, you know, could mean the ballgame. We saw in 2000 that had Al Gore won New Hampshire or West Virginia or something like that with only a handful of electoral votes, he would be president today. But having said that, Iowa's a very interesting state. You know, historically, it should be a Republican state, it's in the Midwest, a lot of veterans, a lot of seniors, many of whom vote Republican.
But Iowa's gone Democratic the last four times. Al Gore, Bill Clinton twice, and Michael Dukakis all carried Iowa because of faltering economic situations. And while George W. Bush will argue that the economy has improved somewhat in Iowa, the farm prices are up, you know, the farm prices are good, the war is a very serious issue there. And again, historically also, even though there's a left wing antiwar contingency among the Democrats -- but Republicans have never been hawkish here.
Ronald Reagan did not do well in Iowa in 1984, even though he won the state. It was one of his worst states. Chuck Grassley, the senior senator from Iowa, a Republican, Republican stalwart, voted against the Gulf War in '91. So there is a doveish contingency here in Iowa -- here in Iowa? I'm sitting in Washington -- in Iowa, here in Iowa...
PHILLIPS: You've been to Iowa, that's OK.
RUDIN: I've been there, I have been there.
PHILLIPS: And you know, you bring up a good point. I mean, you've got the highest unemployment rate in Davenport. You've got the Air National Guard unit. You've got a lot of folks that can relate to the casualties suffered on behalf of soldiers from that area. So you can see why Bush and Kerry would want to win these people over and hit those issues.
Is it still in a dead heat or is one -- do you think Bush, Kerry, is someone pulling ahead?
RUDIN: I would be very skeptical of any poll that showed anybody pulling ahead. Although, I did see a poll just today that showed President Bush with a slight advantage in Iowa. But you know, again, we have to wait for the debates, as we will.
We have to wait for any kind of change in the economy, any kind of campaign changes that will go on, that historically will go on, as they will for the next couple months.
PHILLIPS: Political editor for NPR -- you can also checkout his column, all you political junkies -- Ken Rudin, thanks so much.
RUDIN: Not in Iowa.
PHILLIPS: Not in Iowa, but in Washington... but he knows Iowa.
RUDIN: That's right, I've heard of it.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Ken.
RUDIN: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: Well, more on the battle to woo voters. Coming up just an hour from now, Judy Woodruff's "INSIDE POLITICS."
We're going to take you there live to the campaign trail, 3:30 p.m. Eastern time. The prosecution making its case in a hearing for Army Private Lynndie England, accused in the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. We're live from Fort Bragg just ahead.
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