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Swift Boat Ad Controversy; Security in NYC for RNC; Ethics, Controversy, and Olympic Medals
Aired August 23, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Lin. Here's what's all new this half hour.
Mistaken medal. What should happen now? The judge's admit a scoring error in giving the gold to American gymnast Paul Hamm. And ethics expert, and your e-mail just ahead.
But first, here's what is happening now in the news.
O'BRIEN: President Bush calling for the end of political ads like the ones targeting John Kerry. The president called for all so- called 527 groups to stop airing those attack ads.
However, Mr. Bush did not directly condemn ads by the Swift Boats Veterans Group that questions Kerry's Vietnam service.
An Army Reservist charges in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal plans a partial plea of guilt. Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick says he will admit guilt to some charges stemming from the Abu Ghraib Prison. He did not, however, specify the charges, which include maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty.
Scott Peterson's mistress returns to the witness stand in his murder trial today. Amber Frey will face cross-examination a little later. Last week, jurors heard hours of taped telephone calls between Peterson and Frey. Frey's testimony today was delayed earlier so a witness could testify about Peterson's cell phone records.
Play ball! A Chicago city official says the Cubs can play at Wrigley Field tonight as scheduled. There were concerns about falling concrete from the upper deck. The officials says a weekend inspection found no new problems so inspectors will not have to cancel the game.
LIN: The campaign trail is getting muddier as we head closer to the November election, and a lot of the mud-slinging is over those controversial swift boat ads, questioning John Kerry's Vietnam service.
And who better to talk about the controversy, the campaigns and the conventions than "CROSSFIRE" co-hosts Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala. They are live right now with the Election Express behind them in Philadelphia.
Paul, what is that in your hand?
PAUL BEGALA, "CROSSFIRE" CO-HOST: Well, in Philadelphia, of course, it's the home of a lot of things. It's the home of this beautiful art museum, where we are, the home of Rocky, but most importantly, the home of Cheese Whiz, or at least Pat's King of Steak, right across from, the guy who own's Pat. And I stopped by there for a little light lunch. And, really, you know, Cheese Whiz it is nature's perfect food, Carol. I think you need to eat plenty of it.
LIN: I had no idea you could get it in such volume.
TUCKER CARLSON, "CROSSFIRE" CO-HOST: Food is a little strong, yes.
LIN: Let's talk about these attack ads. President Bush, as you saw -- you might have seen just a short time ago, came out, talked with reporters, and said specifically that he was criticizing all these attack ads that were funded by 527 money. He says he wants all the ads to stop, and then he said all of them. That means that ad, criticizing the Swift Boat Veterans, who are releasing a new version out tomorrow.
Paul, does that satisfy you, do you think? Is that enough for the president to say?
BEGALA: No, look, the problem with these ads is not how they're funded. The problem is some of them are untrue. There's a right-wing group that is running ads that suggests John Kerry didn't deserve his medals in Vietnam. That's wrong. It's false. John McCain says it's dishonest and dishonorable.
And I have to say the president risks looking, I don't know, kind of wimpy. If these charges are valid, then the president should air them. He should say, you know what, I agree, Kerry did not earn the medals. If they're not valid, they're untrue, he should disavow them. (INAUDIBLE), and I just think it's gutless. It's an obligation for the truth here. And just admit that, look, John Kerry served with great distinction in (INAUDIBLE).
CARLSON: Vietnam is the issue in Kerry's campaign. I mean, these ads may be unseemly, but so is...
LIN: All right, Tucker, Paul, we want to apologize because we're getting some satellite hits here.
Let's try again -- Tucker, go ahead.
CARLSON: I was merely making the point that the ads may be unseemly and uncomfortable making, but so is it unseemly to run an entire presidential campaign, as John Kerry has, on your four months of service 35 years ago. Vietnam is John Kerry's campaign. That's what he's running on. I don't know if you saw the convention last month, but that's what it is about; it was about his service in Vietnam.
Bush has said again and again, look, he was honorable to serve, and he was. No one would deny that. Of course the people behind the ad are pro-Bush. That's the whole point of it.
But the real debate here, the only debate is, is the ad true or not? And you could hardly dismiss, you know, literally scores of fellow Vietnam veterans as all right-wing operatives. They're not. They have a legitimate point of view, and I think it's fair to debate it, even if it hurts John Kerry.
BEGALA: People are entitled to their opinions; they're not entitled to their own facts, and a whole lot of serious journalists, most recently this weekend "The Washington Post" and "The Chicago Tribune," went through the record, and the charges are simply false, and that's the problem here, is that the president has a pattern of using right-wing hit groups to make false charges about people's patriotism. They did this against John McCain in the South Carolina primary in 2000.
I can remember when the prior generation of Bushes did it -- they tried to do it against Bill Clinton in the 1992 campaign, said that a student backpacking trip that he'd taken to Moscow somehow made him a KGB plant.
Look, there are serious issues in the country. We are at war. The economy has stalled here in Pennsylvania. They've lost like 50,000 jobs.
LIN: So, Paul, why doesn't John Kerry put it to rest? Why doesn't John Kerry put it to rest and open up, just open all of his war records?
BEGALA: Who cares? Look, I hope he does. I'm sure he has. The guy served with great honor and distinction, but it's not the issue. You know, a guy here in Pennsylvania who has gotten laid off in this Bush economy is not going to get another job just because John Kerry won a bunch of medals, or just because some right-wing group says he doesn't deserve them.
CARLSON: This is...
BEGALA: The president has screwed up this economy. He doesn't want to defend what he has done in America. That's why he's trying to attack what John Kerry did in Vietnam.
CARLSON: It's -- really, you are hearing two simultaneous arguments that contradict each other. The first is, it matters very much what John Kerry did in Vietnam, that he served honor honorably, and as Paul said, with distinction. And the second argument as well, don't question that because it doesn't really matter; what we need to talk about is the economy.
I guess I'd respond with two separate arguments as well. The first is, that's true, it does matter more what's happening in the economy, and particularly what is happening on the war and progress in Iraq, on which John Kerry has said virtually nothing. And so John Kerry ought to be talking about that.
Second, if you're going to make, again, Vietnam the centerpiece of your campaign, as he has, it's absolutely within bounds, fair, and I think probably necessary to talk about the details of it. Why won't he release his records? He ought to release the records and end the conversation.
BEGALA: No, what he ought to do is talk about the economy, health care, energy independence on Iraq. Those are the issues the election's going to be decided on. All of this is a huge distraction.
Look, guys like us, it's great for, you know, cable talk show hosts, but it's not doing a darn bit of good for the electorate, who actually ought to have a serious debate about these very big issues, and I think on those debates, the president's in a lot of trouble. That is why he countenances these right-wing groups raising these distractions, because he wants the distractions.
CARLSON: They're veterans. I mean, the attack on these guys who served honorably in Vietnam is totally outrageous, in my opinion.
BEGALA: They should just tell the truth.
LIN: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Tucker Carlson, Paul Begala, with enough Cheese Whiz to last out the week. Thanks so much. You share. Bye-bye.
All right, join Bob Novak, Tucker Carlson, James Carville and Paul Begala as they debate the political issues impacting your life. Don't miss CROSSFIRE weekdays at 4:30 p.m. Eastern, 1:30 Pacific.
And ahead of next week's Republican convention, police and protesters are making plans. Security will be fortress-like with New York City under a heightened terror alert.
CNN's Allan Chernoff shows us the early preparations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If someone gets arrested, call us. We know what to do. And I need people that are going to staff this.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Opponents of President Bush have been planning for months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the police tell us we need to move in a different direction...
CHERNOFF: This group sarcastically calls itself Billionaires for Bush. The Billionaires next Sunday plan to join tens of thousands of protesters in a march past Madison Square Garden, where George Bush is to be nominated for his second term.
ANDREW BOYD, BILLIONAIRES FOR BUSH: We want to show the world that there's a huge uprising of resistance against George Bush and the war in Iraq.
CHERNOFF: The police say they are ready for the protesters, illustrating here how they would break up demonstrators who chain themselves to objects.
Add the recent warnings that landmark buildings are terror targets, New York's post-9/11 high alert status, and the city is confronting one of its great security challenges.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK CITY: The first and most important thing is make the city secure, and then we'll figure out how to pay for it.
CHERNOFF: The price tag will top $70 million, $50 million of which is coming from Washington.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: We'll be using in essence the entire department. We'll be working extended tours. And I don't believe any area is going to be diminished at all in terms of, you know, our effective enforcement of the law.
CHERNOFF: City, state and federal authorities will be patrolling New York, on the ground, in the air, underground, and in the water.
Madison Square Garden will be on virtual lockdown, streets north and south of the Garden closed, all but two entrances to the train station sitting beneath the arena also closed, deliveries in the immediate neighborhood, restricted.
Demand is high for private security, as well. Twenty-first Century security has hired an extra 40 agents, expanding its staff by 50 percent.
ANTHONY POVEROMO, CEO, 21ST CENTURY SECURITY: We're providing bodyguard services. We're providing, basically, peace of mind, letting them know that they can call on us to either be their driver, someone to walk with.
CHERNOFF (on camera): The modern political convention is a tightly scripted event with no surprises. It is largely up to law enforcement to ensure that everything does go as planned, that the city is safe for delegates, protesters and all New Yorkers.
Allen Chernoff, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Up next, the real Dream Team emerging at this year's Olympics. It's a golden three-peat. We're live in Athens up next.
Plus, the Paul Hamm medal controversy. Should he give up his gold? You be the judge. We'll read some of your e-mail with "New York Times" ethicist Randy Cohen. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Gold is a precious medal at the Summer Games in Athens, Greece. But a dispute over one gold medal in particular is stealing some of the focus away from the competition today.
Our Larry Smith checks in from Athens -- Larry.
LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes, more on that in just a moment. It's another controversy; you can imagine that.
But I want for once to talk about actual results. Because we (INAUDIBLE) it seems very often. No, we have. But it's so exciting. U.S. leading the total medal count, and how can you get a gold, silver, and a bronze in the same event? Well, it happened less than an hour ago in the men's 400-meter finals.
Jeremy Wariner taking a gold; right behind him, Otis Harris and Derrick Brew -- his two teammates. All three finishing within half a second of each other. And so, gold, silver, bronze for the U.S. in the men's 400-meter final.
Now, U.S. soccer, the women's team, knocked off the number one ranked team in the world this evening to advance to the gold medal game on Thursday. Heather O'Reilly's goal in the ninth minute of overtime gave the U.S. the 2-1 win over Germany as they avenge a loss in last year's World Cup semifinals.
Third gold medal in a row for the U.S. softball team. A 5-1 victory today over Australia. The only run the U.S. allowed in nine Olympic Games. In fact, they set a dozen records on the way to one of the most dominant performances ever. Crystal Bustos homered twice in the win.
Talk about the other Dream Team -- if you still want to call them that. USA men's basketball a route (ph) over Angola 89-53. Tim Duncan 15 points and 13 rebounds. Now the U.S. next plays in Thursday's quarter finals. They must win then and at least once more to avoid becoming the first American team ever to not medal in the Olympics.
Well new 100-meter gold medalist Justin Gatlin says he supports his coach's decision to blow the whistle on doping in sports. Trevor Graham gave the U.S. anti-doping agency a sample of the designer steroid THG, which led to better testing for the steroid and the suspension of several world-class athletes.
We should mention, by the way, six positive drug tests at these Olympic Games; none have been for THG.
And finally, the scandal involving the gold medal won in all- around competition in men's gymnastics by Paul Hamm. U.S. officials have met with South Korean officials and are considering supporting their effort to get Yang Tae-young a duplicate gold medal in the all- around. Over the weekend, gymnastics officials admitted that there was a scoring mistake made in last Wednesday's competition and that Paul Hamm should not have won the gold. Instead, it should have gone to young.
We'll see where it goes from here. But certainly, this is yet another of many, many, many issues we have been covering in now day 10 of these Olympic Games. Let's go back to you. LIN: Wow, Larry, you covered a lot. Thank you very much. Thanks for addressing the controversy. And of course, we always like to hear the results, as well -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, we do want to hear from you about this whole controversy: how it should be resolved; should Paul Hamm return the gold medal; did the chips fall where they may; two gold medals -- all kinds of options here. Livefrom@cnn.com is the place to send your e- mails.
We already got to pass a lot of them, quite frankly, but go ahead and fire away. We'll try to squeeze a few more in, time permitting. And we will talk with a guest who knows about such issues: an ethicist.
What a good job that would be. You know, put that on your business card: ethicist -- who is going to join us and walk us through the ethical wickets on this one.
Back with more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, where there's gold, there's often controversy. The Olympics have seen its share of controversy over who takes home the gold. Should Paul Hamm be penalized for the judges screwing up? We're looking for the high road here -- as always, here on CNN.
And to help us find the way, Randy Cohen. He writes a column called "The Ethicist" for "The New York Times" magazine. We hope you catch it every now and then. It's quite interesting.
Randy, good to have you with us.
RANDY COHEN, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE: Nice to be here.
O'BRIEN: All right. We've gotten a lot of e-mails. They run the full gamut. And we'll just -- I just want to work these in, and we'll pose questions based on this.
Christine in Florida begins our session with this: "Paul should not return his medal due to the judges' error. All sports have a referee or judge that make decisions in the game, and their judgment stands. The judges should give also the Korean athlete a gold in good faith."
And there's one more I want to add to this, which is sort of on the same line: "In many other sports when competition ends, the game is over. Period. Many times throughout history, it has been proven that a bad call changed the outcome and the victor. That is the agony of defeat sometimes; the fact that a human element is present." That from George Walker.
Let's take George's present first. His point is agony of defeat. Judges be they -- you see bad calls in football all the time, the swing contests, let it stand.
COHEN: I don't think so. The kind of bad calls that e-mail refers to are subjective calls. And under the pressure and the time pressure of making a decision, the referees have a rough job and they're going to make mistakes. That's fine.
But here in the Olympics, this was more of a clerical error. They simply misrepresented the degree of difficulty on the Mr. Yang's event the same way they represented in all the earlier competition. There was no subjective decision to be made. They made a kind of clerical error. It's easily corrected. We know who won. Give the winner the gold.
O'BRIEN: All right. I see your point here. And we should just clue viewers in here. What they did was they low balled him on the degree of difficulty for the maneuver. And that is not in dispute. It's a 10. The maneuver was a 10. Period. And that's just at the outset what your possible score might be.
COHEN: Sure, everyone agrees.
O'BRIEN: You factor that 10 in. This is not part of the controversy. And yes, I see your point. If it had just been a subjective issue, of one judge low balling him and not being fair seemingly, it would be harder to make this argument, wouldn't it?
COHEN: Sure. Yes, it's a subjective business judging, and the judges have to operate under incredible pressure. And I agree, you can't second guess them. And sometimes, in every sport, a bad call will be made. And you do kind of have to live with it. But this is a very different situation.
O'BRIEN: All right. Seana has this for us: "Paul Hamm performed and was judged in the context of an erroneous score. Who could tell he would have done even better, or fallen under the increased pressure? What's done is done. It was the judges' fault. They should award a second gold medal and honor both with stellar performances."
Let me just continue on that point. John Cohn in Fall River, Massachusetts has this: "Would one award two Green jackets at the Masters if two players were tied at the 72nd hole? Of course not! This is (sic) nonsense if (sic) not wishing to offend a person or nation should not enter into (sic) the picture."
So, let's talk about that point of making up for all of this by issuing a second gold medal. Is that the right thing to do?
COHEN: No, it's not. I'm with Mr. Cohn on this, and not just because his name is Cohen -- although that makes him more attractive. We know who won. Mr. Yang won. There's no dispute about that, I don't think. I'm sorry, Paul Hamm feels bad. You know, he's a brilliant athlete, but he didn't win this event. And there should be one medal, and it goes to Mr. Yang.
O'BRIEN: All right. Randy Stone takes the ethical high road here and agrees with you. "Hamm should do the decent thing and give his medal to the Korean. For the rest of his life, he'll have something that will give him more satisfaction than a false gold: He'll know did he what was right."
Do you make much of that?
COHEN: I think if Paul Hamm did that, that would be incredibly impressive. But he's not obliged to do this. The decision about who wins is for the judges to make. We'd admire Paul Hamm if went above and beyond, but that's asking a lot of anyone to voluntarily give up their medal.
He should let the judges announce what they know to be the case, that Mr. Yang won.
O'BRIEN: So, in other words, it's really not -- the ball is not in his court, in your opinion. It's not for him to offer up the gold medal then?
COHEN: Oh, no. I think that's asking more than human flesh can bear.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Christine Brennan in "USA Today" -- one of the great columnists on the Olympics -- says he should do just that.
He (sic) says, "He would part with something extremely dear to him: the gold he fought so hard to win the other night; the gold he has dreamed of since he was a little kid in Waukesha, Wisconsin.
"That's no small gesture. But precisely because the gold is so meaningful, Hamm would reap benefits he cannot yet imagine; addition by subtraction, if you will."
But -- you might agree with that, but that's not really the ethical thing for him to do.
COHEN: Well, there's a term in ethics called supererogatory. That's when someone goes above and beyond and does something that they're not required to do, but we would all admire them for doing it. Something quite heroic -- that you can't require say a firefighter to run into a burning building. That's something he or she must do voluntarily.
But when someone chooses to do that, we're awestruck. We can't help but admire that. And that would be the same for Paul Hamm. He's not obliged to give up his medal. That decision belongs to the judges. But were he to make such a gesture, I would be filled with enormous respect and admiration for him.
O'BRIEN: But what you're saying is really it's probably ethically wrong to ask him to do so.
COHEN: Right. That's an obligation of the judges.
O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right. Final thought here from -- well, let's first let's go to Rich Garcia here. "If a bank inadvertently deposits money in your checking account, you can't keep it. You must give it back. Paul should give the medal back. He did not win it; it just was erroneously awarded to him."
Of course, and this goes along with your argument, the bank makes the decision to take the money back. And thus, the judges make the decision in this case, right?
COHEN: Quite right. Until the judges announce their final decision, we don't know who's officially won. Paul Hamm believes sincerely that he won. It's for the judges to decide.
O'BRIEN: All right. Excellent work. Thank you for navigating those wickets. Carol was asking me about wickets. It's an old croquet term. But anyway, all right, Randy Cohen, thanks for dropping by. We always appreciate your insights.
COHEN: I enjoyed it.
O'BRIEN: All right. We'll see you in a bit.
More of LIVE FROM in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Rhonda Schaffler.
LIN: Yes, talking about some health conscious new way to diet? Slim down? Rhonda?
O'BRIEN: She's doing health segments now? Rhonda, you are amazing. You are incredible. Business, health...
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We cover everything here: stocks, marketing trends -- and this is definitely, guys, a marketing trend here.
It is a new oven, futuristic looking. It allegedly has fat zapping powers -- so we are told. Sharp has unveiled what it's calling the AX-HC1 -- there it is. It uses a so-called superheated system with temperatures up to 570 degrees Fahrenheit. This melts fat and reduces oil and salt from steak, chicken fish, and other foods.
The fat liquefies and flows out of the food in a short period of time. And it cooks up calories, leaving you with 13 percent fewer. Also requires shorter cooking time.
But all of this does not come cheap. Sharp says it expects this oven to sell for more than a thousand dollars. Can't get it here just yet. It does go on sale in Japan next month. Sharp plans to eventually roll this thing out worldwide in the next couple of years -- Miles?
O'BRIEN: All right, Rhonda. Weight Watchers has been watching a craze and kind of missing the boat a little bit. I guess they are on the South Beach while it all happened or something. Anyway, so they are trying to make up for lost time, aren't they?
SCHAFFLER: That's right. A lot of people decided those low-carb diets apparently aren't working for them. And Weight Watchers is now trying to go after those dieters.
The company's announcing the first major changes to its weight loss program in eight years. Instead of the well-known point system, members can now choose to go with a new plan that emphasizes low-cal filling foods. They love this idea on Wall Street. Weight Watcher shares putting on about two percent right now.
Not so for the overall market. Stocks still bouncing around in a tight trading range: Dow off 15 points; Nasdaq adds a quarter of one percent.
That's a quick check on stocks. Lots more LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 23, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Lin. Here's what's all new this half hour.
Mistaken medal. What should happen now? The judge's admit a scoring error in giving the gold to American gymnast Paul Hamm. And ethics expert, and your e-mail just ahead.
But first, here's what is happening now in the news.
O'BRIEN: President Bush calling for the end of political ads like the ones targeting John Kerry. The president called for all so- called 527 groups to stop airing those attack ads.
However, Mr. Bush did not directly condemn ads by the Swift Boats Veterans Group that questions Kerry's Vietnam service.
An Army Reservist charges in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal plans a partial plea of guilt. Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick says he will admit guilt to some charges stemming from the Abu Ghraib Prison. He did not, however, specify the charges, which include maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty.
Scott Peterson's mistress returns to the witness stand in his murder trial today. Amber Frey will face cross-examination a little later. Last week, jurors heard hours of taped telephone calls between Peterson and Frey. Frey's testimony today was delayed earlier so a witness could testify about Peterson's cell phone records.
Play ball! A Chicago city official says the Cubs can play at Wrigley Field tonight as scheduled. There were concerns about falling concrete from the upper deck. The officials says a weekend inspection found no new problems so inspectors will not have to cancel the game.
LIN: The campaign trail is getting muddier as we head closer to the November election, and a lot of the mud-slinging is over those controversial swift boat ads, questioning John Kerry's Vietnam service.
And who better to talk about the controversy, the campaigns and the conventions than "CROSSFIRE" co-hosts Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala. They are live right now with the Election Express behind them in Philadelphia.
Paul, what is that in your hand?
PAUL BEGALA, "CROSSFIRE" CO-HOST: Well, in Philadelphia, of course, it's the home of a lot of things. It's the home of this beautiful art museum, where we are, the home of Rocky, but most importantly, the home of Cheese Whiz, or at least Pat's King of Steak, right across from, the guy who own's Pat. And I stopped by there for a little light lunch. And, really, you know, Cheese Whiz it is nature's perfect food, Carol. I think you need to eat plenty of it.
LIN: I had no idea you could get it in such volume.
TUCKER CARLSON, "CROSSFIRE" CO-HOST: Food is a little strong, yes.
LIN: Let's talk about these attack ads. President Bush, as you saw -- you might have seen just a short time ago, came out, talked with reporters, and said specifically that he was criticizing all these attack ads that were funded by 527 money. He says he wants all the ads to stop, and then he said all of them. That means that ad, criticizing the Swift Boat Veterans, who are releasing a new version out tomorrow.
Paul, does that satisfy you, do you think? Is that enough for the president to say?
BEGALA: No, look, the problem with these ads is not how they're funded. The problem is some of them are untrue. There's a right-wing group that is running ads that suggests John Kerry didn't deserve his medals in Vietnam. That's wrong. It's false. John McCain says it's dishonest and dishonorable.
And I have to say the president risks looking, I don't know, kind of wimpy. If these charges are valid, then the president should air them. He should say, you know what, I agree, Kerry did not earn the medals. If they're not valid, they're untrue, he should disavow them. (INAUDIBLE), and I just think it's gutless. It's an obligation for the truth here. And just admit that, look, John Kerry served with great distinction in (INAUDIBLE).
CARLSON: Vietnam is the issue in Kerry's campaign. I mean, these ads may be unseemly, but so is...
LIN: All right, Tucker, Paul, we want to apologize because we're getting some satellite hits here.
Let's try again -- Tucker, go ahead.
CARLSON: I was merely making the point that the ads may be unseemly and uncomfortable making, but so is it unseemly to run an entire presidential campaign, as John Kerry has, on your four months of service 35 years ago. Vietnam is John Kerry's campaign. That's what he's running on. I don't know if you saw the convention last month, but that's what it is about; it was about his service in Vietnam.
Bush has said again and again, look, he was honorable to serve, and he was. No one would deny that. Of course the people behind the ad are pro-Bush. That's the whole point of it.
But the real debate here, the only debate is, is the ad true or not? And you could hardly dismiss, you know, literally scores of fellow Vietnam veterans as all right-wing operatives. They're not. They have a legitimate point of view, and I think it's fair to debate it, even if it hurts John Kerry.
BEGALA: People are entitled to their opinions; they're not entitled to their own facts, and a whole lot of serious journalists, most recently this weekend "The Washington Post" and "The Chicago Tribune," went through the record, and the charges are simply false, and that's the problem here, is that the president has a pattern of using right-wing hit groups to make false charges about people's patriotism. They did this against John McCain in the South Carolina primary in 2000.
I can remember when the prior generation of Bushes did it -- they tried to do it against Bill Clinton in the 1992 campaign, said that a student backpacking trip that he'd taken to Moscow somehow made him a KGB plant.
Look, there are serious issues in the country. We are at war. The economy has stalled here in Pennsylvania. They've lost like 50,000 jobs.
LIN: So, Paul, why doesn't John Kerry put it to rest? Why doesn't John Kerry put it to rest and open up, just open all of his war records?
BEGALA: Who cares? Look, I hope he does. I'm sure he has. The guy served with great honor and distinction, but it's not the issue. You know, a guy here in Pennsylvania who has gotten laid off in this Bush economy is not going to get another job just because John Kerry won a bunch of medals, or just because some right-wing group says he doesn't deserve them.
CARLSON: This is...
BEGALA: The president has screwed up this economy. He doesn't want to defend what he has done in America. That's why he's trying to attack what John Kerry did in Vietnam.
CARLSON: It's -- really, you are hearing two simultaneous arguments that contradict each other. The first is, it matters very much what John Kerry did in Vietnam, that he served honor honorably, and as Paul said, with distinction. And the second argument as well, don't question that because it doesn't really matter; what we need to talk about is the economy.
I guess I'd respond with two separate arguments as well. The first is, that's true, it does matter more what's happening in the economy, and particularly what is happening on the war and progress in Iraq, on which John Kerry has said virtually nothing. And so John Kerry ought to be talking about that.
Second, if you're going to make, again, Vietnam the centerpiece of your campaign, as he has, it's absolutely within bounds, fair, and I think probably necessary to talk about the details of it. Why won't he release his records? He ought to release the records and end the conversation.
BEGALA: No, what he ought to do is talk about the economy, health care, energy independence on Iraq. Those are the issues the election's going to be decided on. All of this is a huge distraction.
Look, guys like us, it's great for, you know, cable talk show hosts, but it's not doing a darn bit of good for the electorate, who actually ought to have a serious debate about these very big issues, and I think on those debates, the president's in a lot of trouble. That is why he countenances these right-wing groups raising these distractions, because he wants the distractions.
CARLSON: They're veterans. I mean, the attack on these guys who served honorably in Vietnam is totally outrageous, in my opinion.
BEGALA: They should just tell the truth.
LIN: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Tucker Carlson, Paul Begala, with enough Cheese Whiz to last out the week. Thanks so much. You share. Bye-bye.
All right, join Bob Novak, Tucker Carlson, James Carville and Paul Begala as they debate the political issues impacting your life. Don't miss CROSSFIRE weekdays at 4:30 p.m. Eastern, 1:30 Pacific.
And ahead of next week's Republican convention, police and protesters are making plans. Security will be fortress-like with New York City under a heightened terror alert.
CNN's Allan Chernoff shows us the early preparations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If someone gets arrested, call us. We know what to do. And I need people that are going to staff this.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Opponents of President Bush have been planning for months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the police tell us we need to move in a different direction...
CHERNOFF: This group sarcastically calls itself Billionaires for Bush. The Billionaires next Sunday plan to join tens of thousands of protesters in a march past Madison Square Garden, where George Bush is to be nominated for his second term.
ANDREW BOYD, BILLIONAIRES FOR BUSH: We want to show the world that there's a huge uprising of resistance against George Bush and the war in Iraq.
CHERNOFF: The police say they are ready for the protesters, illustrating here how they would break up demonstrators who chain themselves to objects.
Add the recent warnings that landmark buildings are terror targets, New York's post-9/11 high alert status, and the city is confronting one of its great security challenges.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK CITY: The first and most important thing is make the city secure, and then we'll figure out how to pay for it.
CHERNOFF: The price tag will top $70 million, $50 million of which is coming from Washington.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: We'll be using in essence the entire department. We'll be working extended tours. And I don't believe any area is going to be diminished at all in terms of, you know, our effective enforcement of the law.
CHERNOFF: City, state and federal authorities will be patrolling New York, on the ground, in the air, underground, and in the water.
Madison Square Garden will be on virtual lockdown, streets north and south of the Garden closed, all but two entrances to the train station sitting beneath the arena also closed, deliveries in the immediate neighborhood, restricted.
Demand is high for private security, as well. Twenty-first Century security has hired an extra 40 agents, expanding its staff by 50 percent.
ANTHONY POVEROMO, CEO, 21ST CENTURY SECURITY: We're providing bodyguard services. We're providing, basically, peace of mind, letting them know that they can call on us to either be their driver, someone to walk with.
CHERNOFF (on camera): The modern political convention is a tightly scripted event with no surprises. It is largely up to law enforcement to ensure that everything does go as planned, that the city is safe for delegates, protesters and all New Yorkers.
Allen Chernoff, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Up next, the real Dream Team emerging at this year's Olympics. It's a golden three-peat. We're live in Athens up next.
Plus, the Paul Hamm medal controversy. Should he give up his gold? You be the judge. We'll read some of your e-mail with "New York Times" ethicist Randy Cohen. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Gold is a precious medal at the Summer Games in Athens, Greece. But a dispute over one gold medal in particular is stealing some of the focus away from the competition today.
Our Larry Smith checks in from Athens -- Larry.
LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes, more on that in just a moment. It's another controversy; you can imagine that.
But I want for once to talk about actual results. Because we (INAUDIBLE) it seems very often. No, we have. But it's so exciting. U.S. leading the total medal count, and how can you get a gold, silver, and a bronze in the same event? Well, it happened less than an hour ago in the men's 400-meter finals.
Jeremy Wariner taking a gold; right behind him, Otis Harris and Derrick Brew -- his two teammates. All three finishing within half a second of each other. And so, gold, silver, bronze for the U.S. in the men's 400-meter final.
Now, U.S. soccer, the women's team, knocked off the number one ranked team in the world this evening to advance to the gold medal game on Thursday. Heather O'Reilly's goal in the ninth minute of overtime gave the U.S. the 2-1 win over Germany as they avenge a loss in last year's World Cup semifinals.
Third gold medal in a row for the U.S. softball team. A 5-1 victory today over Australia. The only run the U.S. allowed in nine Olympic Games. In fact, they set a dozen records on the way to one of the most dominant performances ever. Crystal Bustos homered twice in the win.
Talk about the other Dream Team -- if you still want to call them that. USA men's basketball a route (ph) over Angola 89-53. Tim Duncan 15 points and 13 rebounds. Now the U.S. next plays in Thursday's quarter finals. They must win then and at least once more to avoid becoming the first American team ever to not medal in the Olympics.
Well new 100-meter gold medalist Justin Gatlin says he supports his coach's decision to blow the whistle on doping in sports. Trevor Graham gave the U.S. anti-doping agency a sample of the designer steroid THG, which led to better testing for the steroid and the suspension of several world-class athletes.
We should mention, by the way, six positive drug tests at these Olympic Games; none have been for THG.
And finally, the scandal involving the gold medal won in all- around competition in men's gymnastics by Paul Hamm. U.S. officials have met with South Korean officials and are considering supporting their effort to get Yang Tae-young a duplicate gold medal in the all- around. Over the weekend, gymnastics officials admitted that there was a scoring mistake made in last Wednesday's competition and that Paul Hamm should not have won the gold. Instead, it should have gone to young.
We'll see where it goes from here. But certainly, this is yet another of many, many, many issues we have been covering in now day 10 of these Olympic Games. Let's go back to you. LIN: Wow, Larry, you covered a lot. Thank you very much. Thanks for addressing the controversy. And of course, we always like to hear the results, as well -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, we do want to hear from you about this whole controversy: how it should be resolved; should Paul Hamm return the gold medal; did the chips fall where they may; two gold medals -- all kinds of options here. Livefrom@cnn.com is the place to send your e- mails.
We already got to pass a lot of them, quite frankly, but go ahead and fire away. We'll try to squeeze a few more in, time permitting. And we will talk with a guest who knows about such issues: an ethicist.
What a good job that would be. You know, put that on your business card: ethicist -- who is going to join us and walk us through the ethical wickets on this one.
Back with more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, where there's gold, there's often controversy. The Olympics have seen its share of controversy over who takes home the gold. Should Paul Hamm be penalized for the judges screwing up? We're looking for the high road here -- as always, here on CNN.
And to help us find the way, Randy Cohen. He writes a column called "The Ethicist" for "The New York Times" magazine. We hope you catch it every now and then. It's quite interesting.
Randy, good to have you with us.
RANDY COHEN, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE: Nice to be here.
O'BRIEN: All right. We've gotten a lot of e-mails. They run the full gamut. And we'll just -- I just want to work these in, and we'll pose questions based on this.
Christine in Florida begins our session with this: "Paul should not return his medal due to the judges' error. All sports have a referee or judge that make decisions in the game, and their judgment stands. The judges should give also the Korean athlete a gold in good faith."
And there's one more I want to add to this, which is sort of on the same line: "In many other sports when competition ends, the game is over. Period. Many times throughout history, it has been proven that a bad call changed the outcome and the victor. That is the agony of defeat sometimes; the fact that a human element is present." That from George Walker.
Let's take George's present first. His point is agony of defeat. Judges be they -- you see bad calls in football all the time, the swing contests, let it stand.
COHEN: I don't think so. The kind of bad calls that e-mail refers to are subjective calls. And under the pressure and the time pressure of making a decision, the referees have a rough job and they're going to make mistakes. That's fine.
But here in the Olympics, this was more of a clerical error. They simply misrepresented the degree of difficulty on the Mr. Yang's event the same way they represented in all the earlier competition. There was no subjective decision to be made. They made a kind of clerical error. It's easily corrected. We know who won. Give the winner the gold.
O'BRIEN: All right. I see your point here. And we should just clue viewers in here. What they did was they low balled him on the degree of difficulty for the maneuver. And that is not in dispute. It's a 10. The maneuver was a 10. Period. And that's just at the outset what your possible score might be.
COHEN: Sure, everyone agrees.
O'BRIEN: You factor that 10 in. This is not part of the controversy. And yes, I see your point. If it had just been a subjective issue, of one judge low balling him and not being fair seemingly, it would be harder to make this argument, wouldn't it?
COHEN: Sure. Yes, it's a subjective business judging, and the judges have to operate under incredible pressure. And I agree, you can't second guess them. And sometimes, in every sport, a bad call will be made. And you do kind of have to live with it. But this is a very different situation.
O'BRIEN: All right. Seana has this for us: "Paul Hamm performed and was judged in the context of an erroneous score. Who could tell he would have done even better, or fallen under the increased pressure? What's done is done. It was the judges' fault. They should award a second gold medal and honor both with stellar performances."
Let me just continue on that point. John Cohn in Fall River, Massachusetts has this: "Would one award two Green jackets at the Masters if two players were tied at the 72nd hole? Of course not! This is (sic) nonsense if (sic) not wishing to offend a person or nation should not enter into (sic) the picture."
So, let's talk about that point of making up for all of this by issuing a second gold medal. Is that the right thing to do?
COHEN: No, it's not. I'm with Mr. Cohn on this, and not just because his name is Cohen -- although that makes him more attractive. We know who won. Mr. Yang won. There's no dispute about that, I don't think. I'm sorry, Paul Hamm feels bad. You know, he's a brilliant athlete, but he didn't win this event. And there should be one medal, and it goes to Mr. Yang.
O'BRIEN: All right. Randy Stone takes the ethical high road here and agrees with you. "Hamm should do the decent thing and give his medal to the Korean. For the rest of his life, he'll have something that will give him more satisfaction than a false gold: He'll know did he what was right."
Do you make much of that?
COHEN: I think if Paul Hamm did that, that would be incredibly impressive. But he's not obliged to do this. The decision about who wins is for the judges to make. We'd admire Paul Hamm if went above and beyond, but that's asking a lot of anyone to voluntarily give up their medal.
He should let the judges announce what they know to be the case, that Mr. Yang won.
O'BRIEN: So, in other words, it's really not -- the ball is not in his court, in your opinion. It's not for him to offer up the gold medal then?
COHEN: Oh, no. I think that's asking more than human flesh can bear.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Christine Brennan in "USA Today" -- one of the great columnists on the Olympics -- says he should do just that.
He (sic) says, "He would part with something extremely dear to him: the gold he fought so hard to win the other night; the gold he has dreamed of since he was a little kid in Waukesha, Wisconsin.
"That's no small gesture. But precisely because the gold is so meaningful, Hamm would reap benefits he cannot yet imagine; addition by subtraction, if you will."
But -- you might agree with that, but that's not really the ethical thing for him to do.
COHEN: Well, there's a term in ethics called supererogatory. That's when someone goes above and beyond and does something that they're not required to do, but we would all admire them for doing it. Something quite heroic -- that you can't require say a firefighter to run into a burning building. That's something he or she must do voluntarily.
But when someone chooses to do that, we're awestruck. We can't help but admire that. And that would be the same for Paul Hamm. He's not obliged to give up his medal. That decision belongs to the judges. But were he to make such a gesture, I would be filled with enormous respect and admiration for him.
O'BRIEN: But what you're saying is really it's probably ethically wrong to ask him to do so.
COHEN: Right. That's an obligation of the judges.
O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right. Final thought here from -- well, let's first let's go to Rich Garcia here. "If a bank inadvertently deposits money in your checking account, you can't keep it. You must give it back. Paul should give the medal back. He did not win it; it just was erroneously awarded to him."
Of course, and this goes along with your argument, the bank makes the decision to take the money back. And thus, the judges make the decision in this case, right?
COHEN: Quite right. Until the judges announce their final decision, we don't know who's officially won. Paul Hamm believes sincerely that he won. It's for the judges to decide.
O'BRIEN: All right. Excellent work. Thank you for navigating those wickets. Carol was asking me about wickets. It's an old croquet term. But anyway, all right, Randy Cohen, thanks for dropping by. We always appreciate your insights.
COHEN: I enjoyed it.
O'BRIEN: All right. We'll see you in a bit.
More of LIVE FROM in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Rhonda Schaffler.
LIN: Yes, talking about some health conscious new way to diet? Slim down? Rhonda?
O'BRIEN: She's doing health segments now? Rhonda, you are amazing. You are incredible. Business, health...
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We cover everything here: stocks, marketing trends -- and this is definitely, guys, a marketing trend here.
It is a new oven, futuristic looking. It allegedly has fat zapping powers -- so we are told. Sharp has unveiled what it's calling the AX-HC1 -- there it is. It uses a so-called superheated system with temperatures up to 570 degrees Fahrenheit. This melts fat and reduces oil and salt from steak, chicken fish, and other foods.
The fat liquefies and flows out of the food in a short period of time. And it cooks up calories, leaving you with 13 percent fewer. Also requires shorter cooking time.
But all of this does not come cheap. Sharp says it expects this oven to sell for more than a thousand dollars. Can't get it here just yet. It does go on sale in Japan next month. Sharp plans to eventually roll this thing out worldwide in the next couple of years -- Miles?
O'BRIEN: All right, Rhonda. Weight Watchers has been watching a craze and kind of missing the boat a little bit. I guess they are on the South Beach while it all happened or something. Anyway, so they are trying to make up for lost time, aren't they?
SCHAFFLER: That's right. A lot of people decided those low-carb diets apparently aren't working for them. And Weight Watchers is now trying to go after those dieters.
The company's announcing the first major changes to its weight loss program in eight years. Instead of the well-known point system, members can now choose to go with a new plan that emphasizes low-cal filling foods. They love this idea on Wall Street. Weight Watcher shares putting on about two percent right now.
Not so for the overall market. Stocks still bouncing around in a tight trading range: Dow off 15 points; Nasdaq adds a quarter of one percent.
That's a quick check on stocks. Lots more LIVE FROM right after this.
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