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Fighting Words in Swift Boat Controversy; Abu Ghraib Report Points Finger at Military Intelligence

Aired August 25, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien. A couple of stories making news right now for you.

PHILLIPS: Was it just a coincidence? Two passenger jets crashed within minutes of each other right after taking off from the same Russian airport. Officials for the moment have ruled out terrorism. Actually, it has not been ruled out. It is still being considered, but the recovered flight data recorders from both airliners are being decoded for clues.

Calling it quits, a top lawyer for the Bush-Cheney reelection resigns, admitting that he has advised the veterans group behind the swift boat ads. Benjamin Ginsberg that he felt he was becoming a distraction, but did nothing illegal. He'll be a guest on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" at 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

O'BRIEN: We begin this hour with a display of political showmanship, gamesmanship, brinkmanship, that's sure to keep the swift boat flap afloat for a few more days.

Now, if you've been watching CNN, you saw former Democratic senator, current John Kerry supporter, longtime Vietnam veteran's advocate Max Cleland right there in President Bush's backyard, Crawford, Texas. Now, he had gone there to deliver a letter asking Mr. Bush to attack those soft money ads from the swift boat vets who claimed he lied to win two of his medals, among other things.

Now, instead, he was met by a Texas state official, also a Vietnam veteran, who wanted to give Cleland a letter from vets who support Bush-Cheney. Neither would accept the other's message and then both hurried off to the middle school parking lot, where the traveling White House press corps was whiling away a hot Crawford afternoon, at which point, things got a little hotter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX CLELAND (D), FMR. U.S. SENATOR: For those of us in the Vietnam era, we're having to go through Vietnam again. We're having to go through the divisive aspect of politics dividing our nation and dividing us one from another. That is not what we ought to be doing in America. We can do better than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: The pro-Bush letter came from Texas land commissioner Jerry Patterson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: The letter was drafted by Bush/Cheney '04 And we, all of us signatories, which are myself, Duke Cunningham, Duncan Hunter, Sam Johnson, General Palmer (ph), Robert O'Malley (ph), a Marine Medal of Honor recipient, Jim Fleming (ph), another Medal of Honor recipient, and Colonel Richard Castle, agreed to have our names on it. And we're saying basically in the letter, you can't have it both ways.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Those are tough acts to follow, but our Judy Woodruff is up to the occasion, of course. She's following the he said/he said from CNN Election Express on Sixth Avenue there right in midtown Manhattan.

Judy Woodruff, good to see you, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Miles.

You're right, a lot of theater here, he said/she said and so forth. But underlying that, Miles, are some very strong feelings on both sides. You've got some angry Vietnam veterans who are angry at John Kerry for he did especially for when he came back from Vietnam, for criticizing the war.

On the other hand, you have got these veterans who are supporting Kerry who are really angry because they're saying their records are being besmirched by these ads. And of course underlying all that is a high-stakes political game, the Kerry campaign saying these 527 so- called independent ads directly connected to the Bush campaign, today, the resignation of the Bush-Cheney chief legal counsel.

Meantime, the Kerry campaign, trying to get ahead of all this, they are feeling that maybe it's hurting them, and the way they want to get ahead of it is to turn the whole issue back on George W. Bush. I think it remains to be seen if that is going to work. But that's what they're trying to do.

O'BRIEN: All right, but isn't the stated goal to move on and change the debate? That's what I've heard from the candidate at least. And I'm going to make an assumption here that Max Cleland went down there with the blessing of the campaign. And it does nothing else but mire us deeper into that very debate they said to move on from.

WOODRUFF: Well, Miles, yes.

At one point, John Kerry has said, I want to move on. But at the same time, he is responding to these ads. He is going after the Bush campaign for connections that he says exist between these independent ads and the Bush campaign. And he's the one, it's his campaign that sent Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, who of course served in Vietnam with John Kerry, to Texas. They're doing both.

On the one hand, they're saying we want to get it behind us. We want to keep talking. But on the other hand, they find it necessary to continue to defend John Kerry's record in Vietnam and as I just said to try to get ahead of it by putting the onus on the Bush campaign. So, you could say they're trying to have it both ways. And it's not clear yet whether this is successful.

O'BRIEN: A lot of having it both ways these days on both of these campaigns. But what do you make of the counterintuitive argument here that indirectly this whole thing is really helping the Kerry campaign because it reminds voters of that fact that John Kerry was there in Vietnam, and whatever you may think about those details, he did report for duty and George Bush remained in the United States in the National Guard?

WOODRUFF: Well, that's what the Kerry campaign is hoping, Miles.

They've been getting heat, frankly, from other Democrats who say, you waited too long, John Kerry, to defend yourself on this, and you need to figure out way to turn it into a positive. One thing they are hoping to come out of this, as you just said, to remind voters that, when John Kerry had to make a choice, he went to Vietnam. George W. Bush decided to stay back. But I think it's too early to see.

CNN is going to come out with a public opinion poll tomorrow. We're asking a lot of questions in that poll about what people think about all this. I think we will begin to get a picture whether or not this helps or hurts John Kerry, helps or hurts George W. Bush. But these things, they take time to sort themselves out. And my guess is, it is going to be a while before we know definitively one way or another who's helped and who's hurt.

O'BRIEN: Judy Woodruff on the Avenues of the Americas with an IPP. That's an "INSIDE POLITICS" preview. We call it an IPP. As a matter of fact, that program comes up in about 24 minutes or so right here on CNN, 3:30 Eastern. And Judy Woodruff is on the marquee for that particular show. If you're interested in politics, it's must-see TV -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: She's your woman.

Well, the Pentagon is buzzing with another new report on the Abu Ghraib debacle, this one pointing fingers at U.S. military intelligence.

CNN's Barbara Starr tells us about it now -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.

Well, that report now made public here in the Pentagon, more than two dozen personnel associated with the Military Intelligence Brigade at Abu Ghraib named for possible additional criminal investigation, administrative charges, reprimands, a wide range of possibilities that those people are now facing. After a one-hour briefing, we have learned extensive details about what the report found about questionable activity, misconduct and criminal and violent abuse at the prison. What we have learned, one new fact, eight ghost detainees at the military prison. These were people, eight Iraqis that were at the prison essentially being run by the Central Intelligence Agency. They were CIA prisoners. They were there at the behest of the CIA, but really not under control of the U.S. military.

The U.S. Army is investigating how those ghost detainees of the CIA came to be at Abu Ghraib and the CIA itself is also investigating that matter. Here's a little bit of what General Paul Kern, the senior officer, had to say about all that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENERAL PAUL KERN, U.S. ARMY: We learned there were leaders in Abu Ghraib who knew about this conduct, knew better and did nothing. Some soldiers behaved improperly because they were confused by their experiences and direction. And we found that we violated our own regulations by allowing ghost detainees in our detention facilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The report also underscored who the has previously been said here in this building, that, simply, there was not enough attention paid to what was going on at the prison, not enough personnel, poor leadership, poor discipline at the prison.

No findings, however, that the very highest ranking officials in Baghdad were culpable, that they did not sanction the kinds of criminal violent sexual abuse that took place in some cases at the prison. And I must tell you, Kyra, one of the cases we heard about in some detail today, very difficult to discuss, very graphic.

But nonetheless, what they laid out, the most horrific example, in the words of General Kern, two Iraqi adolescents who were being detained at the prison were abused quite seriously by two dog-handling teams at the prison. The dog handlers apparently used the dogs, had a contest. Very difficult to tell you what comes next, but they were aiming to try and get the young Iraqi teenagers to either have uncontrollable bowel movements or urinate upon themselves because they were so terrified of these U.S. military working dogs -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That makes your stomach turn. Barbara Starr, live from the Pentagon, thank you.

Well, democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is again calling for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign. Kerry, citing a report on the Abu Ghraib released yesterday, says that it's not just the little person who ought to pay the price of responsibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The lack of responsibility for what has been the -- one of the most severe miscalculations in any deployment of American forces in American history, I believe, lands in the civilian responsibility. And I called months ago for Secretary Rumsfeld to take that responsibility, for the president to take that responsibility. And again today, as I have previously, I call for the resignation of the secretary of defense for failure to do what he should have done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Kerry previously called for Rumsfeld to resign over allegations of poor planning for the aftermath of the war in Iraq.

O'BRIEN: Making Olympic history in Athens. CNN's Michael Holmes continues his terribly difficult marathon of coverage over there.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Someone has to do it. I'll be back after the break. I'll tell you how Israel will hear its national anthem played at these Games for the very first time. Also, Marion Jones is performing tonight. We'll tell you how she's doing and all the rest of your Olympic news.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Israel makes history and America's one time track and field starlet gears up for her only event at the Summer Games in Athens.

Joining us now from the most beautiful venue, CNN's Michael Holmes, starting off with that gold medal for Israel.

Pretty amazing stuff, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, it was.

They've waited a long time for this, Kyra. It's a nice story. It came in the men's sailboarding, the mistral event. And Gal Friedman's crew won, who created Olympic history, becoming Israel's first ever gold medalist.

Now, Israel first entered the Games back in 1952 -- that was Helsinki -- and had to wait 40 years for its first medal, which happened in Barcelona. That was on the judo mat. It was a bronze. This time, gold for Israel, so they will hear their national anthem for the first time at any Olympic Games -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Everybody is talking about Marion Jones.

HOLMES: They are. I've actually just been watching. She just had her second jump in the long jump. She's currently ranked fifth. But the competition very early on at this stage. You might remember she was expected to be coming here to defend her 100- and 200-meter sprint crowns from the Sydney Olympics. That didn't work out. She just didn't qualify. She did qualify for the long jump and so far, she's still in it -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Well, Marion Jones, she is still in it. We can't forgot the controversy sort of surrounding her, Michael, with the steroids. But she's come forward and said she's always passed her drug tests. However, we're finding testing has improved quite a bit, as you were saying, this with the stripping of the gold medal of the Hungarian athlete, the disc thrower today. What do you think? More athletes to come?

HOLMES: Well, quite likely there will be more picked up before these Olympic Games are out. It's more than 20 now have been thrown out of these Games over doping or doping allegations or missing doping tests, as we saw in the case of the Greek sprinters.

But it's important I think to keep it into context. In Sydney, there were 11 such cases. But in the last four years, the ability to test for things they couldn't test for back in Sydney, that has changed exponentially. And they're now finding drugs and steroids and boosters that they could not find back in Sydney. So, we're in a situation where the numbers of dopers are higher, but their chances of getting caught are higher as well.

So, the more than 20 number is one to perhaps not get too excited about. I don't think it is going to overshadow the Games, but certainly significant and shows how much the IOC is trying to crack down on drug cheats.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of getting excited, Mike, I don't know. Did you get a chance to see that video that everybody has been talking about, about the gold winners, the beach volleyball gals?

HOLMES: I kind of wish I had. You were telling me about it on the telephone earlier. From what I have heard, it's rather fetching.

PHILLIPS: You could say the least, as we sit here and watch the two gals get a little excited in the sand.

Miles, did you want to throw in a little something here.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Look, that's just not fair. I can't see it.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All I can say is, this is one sport where the victory celebration is better than the sport itself.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: I can

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: I'll leave it at that.

HOLMES: The way Kyra was describing it to me on the telephone, you put a little bit of music in and Burt Lancaster...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Did you hear that? A little Burt Lancaster, a little good music.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: I can see it.

HOLMES: You would have "Here From Eternity."

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: You're right. Just wash in the sea, and there you have, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: At a beach, the sand.

Michael Holmes, I'm getting the hard rap. We love you dearly. We'll check in with you tomorrow.

HOLMES: OK.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Well, so much to spray. Dave Matthews Band bus apparently leaves a stinky mess in Illinois.

PHILLIPS: Just ahead, why some Chicago tourists are not exactly thrilled when the big bus rolled into town.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you watched "The Daily Show" last night, as Sandy (ph) and I did, you probably turned in hoping to see the humorous side of John Kerry. Well, you were disappointed. Either the candidate left it in his hotel room or he had a humorectomy years ago. But still, he was there beside our favorite fake anchor, Jon Stewart.

Kelly Wallace tuned in, as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry, facing attacks on his Vietnam record, doesn't turn to Brokaw, Barbara, or Blitzer. He sits down with comedian Jon Stewart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": I watch a lot of the cable news, so I understand, apparently, you were never in Vietnam.

(LAUGHTER) KERRY: That's what I understand, too. But I'm trying to find out what happened.

STEWART: Were you or were you not in Cambodia on Christmas Eve? They said you said five miles. They said three.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: It has become politics 101. When you are criticized for being stiff, even one of your own supporters, comedian Billy Crystal joking, if you're having a good time, tell your face, then you try to show your lighter side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")

KERRY: I've been in some -- you'd be amazed the number of people who want to introduce themselves to you in the men's room.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Senator Kerry went this route before. Remember last year, when political analysts were writing him off? He got on a Harley on "The Tonight Show" to rev up his sagging campaign. Call it pop culture stumping. The man who showed how successful it can be, Bill Clinton, tooting his own horn on "The Arsenio Hall Show" in 1992.

ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: There's no question that Clinton's appearance on "Arsenio Hall" did more for him than any detailed policy analysis that the very brilliant Clinton ever came up with.

WALLACE: After that, there was Al Gore poking fun at himself on "Letterman" in 2000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN")

AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Remember, America, I gave you the Internet and I can take it away. Think about it.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And the same year, on "Oprah," George W. Bush showing his kinder, gentler side.

(on camera): These visits are also about trying to reach new audiences, win votes from people who don't necessarily watch the news and might not like politicians much either. (voice-over): And so, making the late-night and talk show rounds has become a requirement in presidential politics, perhaps even more important in an election where a small number of undecided voters could make the difference.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, now a moment for our lone entertainment headline today. Illinois is suing the Dave Matthews Band for $70,000.

Why? Well, his bus leased by the group allegedly dumped 800 pounds of liquid human waste through the metal grate at the Chicago Bridge. Well, a crowded boat tour below was showered with the nasty stuff. And the band's spokesperson says their driver was not involved in that incident.

O'BRIEN: They were under the bridge screaming, I guess, yes. All right.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: And that wraps up this Wednesday edition of LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Now to take you through the next hour of political headlines, our Judy Woodruff with "INSIDE POLITICS."

Hi, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi, Kyra, Miles. Thank you both.

Well, i am here in New York City, just a short distance from Madison Square Garden -- the site of next week's Republican National Convention. Today I am going to talk with the two New York State party chairs about President Bush's chances in this heavily Democratic state.

Plus, is the Kerry campaign trying to keep the swift boat issue in the news. We're going to examine who benefits from keeping this issue alive.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired August 25, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien. A couple of stories making news right now for you.

PHILLIPS: Was it just a coincidence? Two passenger jets crashed within minutes of each other right after taking off from the same Russian airport. Officials for the moment have ruled out terrorism. Actually, it has not been ruled out. It is still being considered, but the recovered flight data recorders from both airliners are being decoded for clues.

Calling it quits, a top lawyer for the Bush-Cheney reelection resigns, admitting that he has advised the veterans group behind the swift boat ads. Benjamin Ginsberg that he felt he was becoming a distraction, but did nothing illegal. He'll be a guest on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" at 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

O'BRIEN: We begin this hour with a display of political showmanship, gamesmanship, brinkmanship, that's sure to keep the swift boat flap afloat for a few more days.

Now, if you've been watching CNN, you saw former Democratic senator, current John Kerry supporter, longtime Vietnam veteran's advocate Max Cleland right there in President Bush's backyard, Crawford, Texas. Now, he had gone there to deliver a letter asking Mr. Bush to attack those soft money ads from the swift boat vets who claimed he lied to win two of his medals, among other things.

Now, instead, he was met by a Texas state official, also a Vietnam veteran, who wanted to give Cleland a letter from vets who support Bush-Cheney. Neither would accept the other's message and then both hurried off to the middle school parking lot, where the traveling White House press corps was whiling away a hot Crawford afternoon, at which point, things got a little hotter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX CLELAND (D), FMR. U.S. SENATOR: For those of us in the Vietnam era, we're having to go through Vietnam again. We're having to go through the divisive aspect of politics dividing our nation and dividing us one from another. That is not what we ought to be doing in America. We can do better than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: The pro-Bush letter came from Texas land commissioner Jerry Patterson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: The letter was drafted by Bush/Cheney '04 And we, all of us signatories, which are myself, Duke Cunningham, Duncan Hunter, Sam Johnson, General Palmer (ph), Robert O'Malley (ph), a Marine Medal of Honor recipient, Jim Fleming (ph), another Medal of Honor recipient, and Colonel Richard Castle, agreed to have our names on it. And we're saying basically in the letter, you can't have it both ways.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Those are tough acts to follow, but our Judy Woodruff is up to the occasion, of course. She's following the he said/he said from CNN Election Express on Sixth Avenue there right in midtown Manhattan.

Judy Woodruff, good to see you, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Miles.

You're right, a lot of theater here, he said/she said and so forth. But underlying that, Miles, are some very strong feelings on both sides. You've got some angry Vietnam veterans who are angry at John Kerry for he did especially for when he came back from Vietnam, for criticizing the war.

On the other hand, you have got these veterans who are supporting Kerry who are really angry because they're saying their records are being besmirched by these ads. And of course underlying all that is a high-stakes political game, the Kerry campaign saying these 527 so- called independent ads directly connected to the Bush campaign, today, the resignation of the Bush-Cheney chief legal counsel.

Meantime, the Kerry campaign, trying to get ahead of all this, they are feeling that maybe it's hurting them, and the way they want to get ahead of it is to turn the whole issue back on George W. Bush. I think it remains to be seen if that is going to work. But that's what they're trying to do.

O'BRIEN: All right, but isn't the stated goal to move on and change the debate? That's what I've heard from the candidate at least. And I'm going to make an assumption here that Max Cleland went down there with the blessing of the campaign. And it does nothing else but mire us deeper into that very debate they said to move on from.

WOODRUFF: Well, Miles, yes.

At one point, John Kerry has said, I want to move on. But at the same time, he is responding to these ads. He is going after the Bush campaign for connections that he says exist between these independent ads and the Bush campaign. And he's the one, it's his campaign that sent Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, who of course served in Vietnam with John Kerry, to Texas. They're doing both.

On the one hand, they're saying we want to get it behind us. We want to keep talking. But on the other hand, they find it necessary to continue to defend John Kerry's record in Vietnam and as I just said to try to get ahead of it by putting the onus on the Bush campaign. So, you could say they're trying to have it both ways. And it's not clear yet whether this is successful.

O'BRIEN: A lot of having it both ways these days on both of these campaigns. But what do you make of the counterintuitive argument here that indirectly this whole thing is really helping the Kerry campaign because it reminds voters of that fact that John Kerry was there in Vietnam, and whatever you may think about those details, he did report for duty and George Bush remained in the United States in the National Guard?

WOODRUFF: Well, that's what the Kerry campaign is hoping, Miles.

They've been getting heat, frankly, from other Democrats who say, you waited too long, John Kerry, to defend yourself on this, and you need to figure out way to turn it into a positive. One thing they are hoping to come out of this, as you just said, to remind voters that, when John Kerry had to make a choice, he went to Vietnam. George W. Bush decided to stay back. But I think it's too early to see.

CNN is going to come out with a public opinion poll tomorrow. We're asking a lot of questions in that poll about what people think about all this. I think we will begin to get a picture whether or not this helps or hurts John Kerry, helps or hurts George W. Bush. But these things, they take time to sort themselves out. And my guess is, it is going to be a while before we know definitively one way or another who's helped and who's hurt.

O'BRIEN: Judy Woodruff on the Avenues of the Americas with an IPP. That's an "INSIDE POLITICS" preview. We call it an IPP. As a matter of fact, that program comes up in about 24 minutes or so right here on CNN, 3:30 Eastern. And Judy Woodruff is on the marquee for that particular show. If you're interested in politics, it's must-see TV -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: She's your woman.

Well, the Pentagon is buzzing with another new report on the Abu Ghraib debacle, this one pointing fingers at U.S. military intelligence.

CNN's Barbara Starr tells us about it now -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.

Well, that report now made public here in the Pentagon, more than two dozen personnel associated with the Military Intelligence Brigade at Abu Ghraib named for possible additional criminal investigation, administrative charges, reprimands, a wide range of possibilities that those people are now facing. After a one-hour briefing, we have learned extensive details about what the report found about questionable activity, misconduct and criminal and violent abuse at the prison. What we have learned, one new fact, eight ghost detainees at the military prison. These were people, eight Iraqis that were at the prison essentially being run by the Central Intelligence Agency. They were CIA prisoners. They were there at the behest of the CIA, but really not under control of the U.S. military.

The U.S. Army is investigating how those ghost detainees of the CIA came to be at Abu Ghraib and the CIA itself is also investigating that matter. Here's a little bit of what General Paul Kern, the senior officer, had to say about all that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENERAL PAUL KERN, U.S. ARMY: We learned there were leaders in Abu Ghraib who knew about this conduct, knew better and did nothing. Some soldiers behaved improperly because they were confused by their experiences and direction. And we found that we violated our own regulations by allowing ghost detainees in our detention facilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The report also underscored who the has previously been said here in this building, that, simply, there was not enough attention paid to what was going on at the prison, not enough personnel, poor leadership, poor discipline at the prison.

No findings, however, that the very highest ranking officials in Baghdad were culpable, that they did not sanction the kinds of criminal violent sexual abuse that took place in some cases at the prison. And I must tell you, Kyra, one of the cases we heard about in some detail today, very difficult to discuss, very graphic.

But nonetheless, what they laid out, the most horrific example, in the words of General Kern, two Iraqi adolescents who were being detained at the prison were abused quite seriously by two dog-handling teams at the prison. The dog handlers apparently used the dogs, had a contest. Very difficult to tell you what comes next, but they were aiming to try and get the young Iraqi teenagers to either have uncontrollable bowel movements or urinate upon themselves because they were so terrified of these U.S. military working dogs -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That makes your stomach turn. Barbara Starr, live from the Pentagon, thank you.

Well, democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is again calling for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign. Kerry, citing a report on the Abu Ghraib released yesterday, says that it's not just the little person who ought to pay the price of responsibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The lack of responsibility for what has been the -- one of the most severe miscalculations in any deployment of American forces in American history, I believe, lands in the civilian responsibility. And I called months ago for Secretary Rumsfeld to take that responsibility, for the president to take that responsibility. And again today, as I have previously, I call for the resignation of the secretary of defense for failure to do what he should have done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Kerry previously called for Rumsfeld to resign over allegations of poor planning for the aftermath of the war in Iraq.

O'BRIEN: Making Olympic history in Athens. CNN's Michael Holmes continues his terribly difficult marathon of coverage over there.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Someone has to do it. I'll be back after the break. I'll tell you how Israel will hear its national anthem played at these Games for the very first time. Also, Marion Jones is performing tonight. We'll tell you how she's doing and all the rest of your Olympic news.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Israel makes history and America's one time track and field starlet gears up for her only event at the Summer Games in Athens.

Joining us now from the most beautiful venue, CNN's Michael Holmes, starting off with that gold medal for Israel.

Pretty amazing stuff, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, it was.

They've waited a long time for this, Kyra. It's a nice story. It came in the men's sailboarding, the mistral event. And Gal Friedman's crew won, who created Olympic history, becoming Israel's first ever gold medalist.

Now, Israel first entered the Games back in 1952 -- that was Helsinki -- and had to wait 40 years for its first medal, which happened in Barcelona. That was on the judo mat. It was a bronze. This time, gold for Israel, so they will hear their national anthem for the first time at any Olympic Games -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Everybody is talking about Marion Jones.

HOLMES: They are. I've actually just been watching. She just had her second jump in the long jump. She's currently ranked fifth. But the competition very early on at this stage. You might remember she was expected to be coming here to defend her 100- and 200-meter sprint crowns from the Sydney Olympics. That didn't work out. She just didn't qualify. She did qualify for the long jump and so far, she's still in it -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Well, Marion Jones, she is still in it. We can't forgot the controversy sort of surrounding her, Michael, with the steroids. But she's come forward and said she's always passed her drug tests. However, we're finding testing has improved quite a bit, as you were saying, this with the stripping of the gold medal of the Hungarian athlete, the disc thrower today. What do you think? More athletes to come?

HOLMES: Well, quite likely there will be more picked up before these Olympic Games are out. It's more than 20 now have been thrown out of these Games over doping or doping allegations or missing doping tests, as we saw in the case of the Greek sprinters.

But it's important I think to keep it into context. In Sydney, there were 11 such cases. But in the last four years, the ability to test for things they couldn't test for back in Sydney, that has changed exponentially. And they're now finding drugs and steroids and boosters that they could not find back in Sydney. So, we're in a situation where the numbers of dopers are higher, but their chances of getting caught are higher as well.

So, the more than 20 number is one to perhaps not get too excited about. I don't think it is going to overshadow the Games, but certainly significant and shows how much the IOC is trying to crack down on drug cheats.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of getting excited, Mike, I don't know. Did you get a chance to see that video that everybody has been talking about, about the gold winners, the beach volleyball gals?

HOLMES: I kind of wish I had. You were telling me about it on the telephone earlier. From what I have heard, it's rather fetching.

PHILLIPS: You could say the least, as we sit here and watch the two gals get a little excited in the sand.

Miles, did you want to throw in a little something here.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Look, that's just not fair. I can't see it.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All I can say is, this is one sport where the victory celebration is better than the sport itself.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: I can

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: I'll leave it at that.

HOLMES: The way Kyra was describing it to me on the telephone, you put a little bit of music in and Burt Lancaster...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Did you hear that? A little Burt Lancaster, a little good music.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: I can see it.

HOLMES: You would have "Here From Eternity."

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: You're right. Just wash in the sea, and there you have, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: At a beach, the sand.

Michael Holmes, I'm getting the hard rap. We love you dearly. We'll check in with you tomorrow.

HOLMES: OK.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Well, so much to spray. Dave Matthews Band bus apparently leaves a stinky mess in Illinois.

PHILLIPS: Just ahead, why some Chicago tourists are not exactly thrilled when the big bus rolled into town.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you watched "The Daily Show" last night, as Sandy (ph) and I did, you probably turned in hoping to see the humorous side of John Kerry. Well, you were disappointed. Either the candidate left it in his hotel room or he had a humorectomy years ago. But still, he was there beside our favorite fake anchor, Jon Stewart.

Kelly Wallace tuned in, as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry, facing attacks on his Vietnam record, doesn't turn to Brokaw, Barbara, or Blitzer. He sits down with comedian Jon Stewart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": I watch a lot of the cable news, so I understand, apparently, you were never in Vietnam.

(LAUGHTER) KERRY: That's what I understand, too. But I'm trying to find out what happened.

STEWART: Were you or were you not in Cambodia on Christmas Eve? They said you said five miles. They said three.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: It has become politics 101. When you are criticized for being stiff, even one of your own supporters, comedian Billy Crystal joking, if you're having a good time, tell your face, then you try to show your lighter side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")

KERRY: I've been in some -- you'd be amazed the number of people who want to introduce themselves to you in the men's room.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Senator Kerry went this route before. Remember last year, when political analysts were writing him off? He got on a Harley on "The Tonight Show" to rev up his sagging campaign. Call it pop culture stumping. The man who showed how successful it can be, Bill Clinton, tooting his own horn on "The Arsenio Hall Show" in 1992.

ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: There's no question that Clinton's appearance on "Arsenio Hall" did more for him than any detailed policy analysis that the very brilliant Clinton ever came up with.

WALLACE: After that, there was Al Gore poking fun at himself on "Letterman" in 2000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN")

AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Remember, America, I gave you the Internet and I can take it away. Think about it.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And the same year, on "Oprah," George W. Bush showing his kinder, gentler side.

(on camera): These visits are also about trying to reach new audiences, win votes from people who don't necessarily watch the news and might not like politicians much either. (voice-over): And so, making the late-night and talk show rounds has become a requirement in presidential politics, perhaps even more important in an election where a small number of undecided voters could make the difference.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, now a moment for our lone entertainment headline today. Illinois is suing the Dave Matthews Band for $70,000.

Why? Well, his bus leased by the group allegedly dumped 800 pounds of liquid human waste through the metal grate at the Chicago Bridge. Well, a crowded boat tour below was showered with the nasty stuff. And the band's spokesperson says their driver was not involved in that incident.

O'BRIEN: They were under the bridge screaming, I guess, yes. All right.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: And that wraps up this Wednesday edition of LIVE FROM. I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Now to take you through the next hour of political headlines, our Judy Woodruff with "INSIDE POLITICS."

Hi, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi, Kyra, Miles. Thank you both.

Well, i am here in New York City, just a short distance from Madison Square Garden -- the site of next week's Republican National Convention. Today I am going to talk with the two New York State party chairs about President Bush's chances in this heavily Democratic state.

Plus, is the Kerry campaign trying to keep the swift boat issue in the news. We're going to examine who benefits from keeping this issue alive.

"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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