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Live From...
Discussing the RNC
Aired August 30, 2004 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, a ruling in the Kobe Bryant trial. The judge rejects a media request to open more of jury selection to the public. Today, lawyers begin questioning potential jurors one by one. Last week, hundreds of people filed out -- filled out forms, rather, asking, among other things, how they feel about interracial relationships, African-Americans, and mental health experts.
A call to end the fighting in Iraq: Rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordering his followers to lay down their arms, except for self-defense. An aide says al-Sadr is waiting for the right time to announce plans to join the political process.
You're looking at live pictures now from Madison Square Garden where George Bush's name has officially been placed in the nomination at the RNC. Dick Cheney's there also, and the dramatic roll call of the states is underway. It will continue through Wednesday. The convention culminates with George Bush's acceptance speech, of course, on Thursday.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, an army of talk radio hosts have descended on a political convention there to inform, entertain, hopefully not bloviate.
Ben Ferguson, author of the new book hey, "It's my America Too" -- and Sam Greenfield, both syndicated talk show hosts with some very different perspectives. Let me get your book cover on there. I don't want to get you upset there.
BEN FERGUSON, AUTHOR, "It's My America Too": Thank you, sir.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's start with you, Ben, since I have your book in my hand. What the heck is a catastrophic success?
FERGUSON: For me, or for this campaign?
O'BRIEN: No, I mean that is the biggest oxymoron to come down the pike since military intelligence.
FERGUSON: I mean, this campaign is going to be a success. You know, if you look at what George Bush has been able to do, and you look at the people that are coming in here and the people that are supporting him, he's on his way to a success, and that's what's so exciting.
O'BRIEN: No, no, no. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking what does that term mean? Define that phrase. FERGUSON: Catastrophic success?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
FERGUSON: It's doing what people say isn't possible. People are saying he's not going to win this election...
O'BRIEN: No, no, no, no. He's not talking about the election. He's talking about Iraq.
FERGUSON: Well, I mean, catastrophic -- it is a success. I that that Iraq is a success. I think that, you know, you look at Iraq and you look at what has happened there. We've liberated a ton of people. We've given that country democracy.
I mean, what else -- it takes sacrifice, and we don't understand that. We don't understand what it means to sacrifice.
O'BRIEN: I tried. Sam, why don't you take a whack at defining catastrophic success?
SAM GREENFIELD, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I don't have enough college degrees to interpret that. I'm sorry. I give it my best shot.
But here's the point: It doesn't matter about us debating it, because what he meant was -- what he meant was it's a success that came with a catastrophic price. What bothers me more is a couple of days ago, he said he may have miscalculated the amount of resistance in Iraq. That bothers me more.
Listen, there are Bushisms all the time, but it doesn't affect the American electorate because they're tied...
O'BRIEN: But you know what? Let me ask you...
GREENFIELD: They're tied -- now, wait a minute, they're tied. So, it doesn't affect votes.
O'BRIEN: Sam, let me ask you this, though. Maybe there is some 'strategery' here. Maybe it's possible the president is doing this right now to sort of go after some of his soft spots in the sense that voters might perceive him as not admitting to some mistakes along the way on the road to Baghdad.
GREENFIELD: I think that what George Bush's strength among his voters is that he goes down one inexorable path. And he's not going to vary from that path. He thinks that this is a long haul, and it's going to cost a lot of lives, and we're going to be there forever, and we underestimated the amount of military strength...
FERGUSON: We're going to be there as long as it takes to get the job done.
GREENFIELD: ... Rumsfeld. And we're going to be there after Ben's grandkids are ineligible for military, and that's got to be two, 300 years.
O'BRIEN: All right -- Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. All right. Why don't you start over, because we couldn't hear anything you were saying because you were talking at the same time. Go ahead.
FERGUSON: No. I mean, people don't understand what sacrifice means in this country anymore. Why don't we fool ourselves and act like the war in Iraq is going to be settled in the time it takes to watch a sitcom?
GREENFIELD: That's true, because when I think of sacrifice, I think of George W. Bush.
FERGUSON: It takes -- it takes time...
O'BRIEN: Ben, Ben, Ben, the point is -- the point is the president has really shifted his rhetoric right here at the 11th hour, hasn't he?
Oh, my goodness.
FERGUSON: Absolutely not.
O'BRIEN: Here I am. I thought if I stand up here --
PHILLIPS: Stand up and take a stand.
O'BRIEN: The president has shifting his rhetoric; the robots have lost control here. Ben, go.
FERGUSON: No, I mean, look, he had resolve. He's sticking on the course, and he doesn't care what anyone else says about it, because he knows what his mission is, he knows what the plan is, and ask the truth -- ask the 20-something-year-olds over there right now, they're fighting this war in Iraq...
GREENFIELD: But what's the truth part of that? The truth part is we're in the wrong country.
O'BRIEN: Hey, hey -- all right, Ben, let's give Sam a moment here, OK?
GREENFIELD: We're in the wrong country -- excuse me, Ben, that was your 18 minutes.
We're in the wrong country. Last time I checked, Osama bin Laden was not there. He was in another country. We are going after the wrong guy. As Richard Brooks said, it's like being bombed at Pearl Harbor and invading Mexico.
O'BRIEN: All right, hey, I'll tell you what, let's shift gears here. Sam, let's shift gears here for one second.
GREENFIELD: OK.
O'BRIEN: You've got Ed Koch, you've got Zell Miller. GREENFIELD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You've got -- gosh, Ron Silver. For all we know, Dexter Freebish is a former Democrat, now Republican.
GREENFIELD: Right, right.
O'BRIEN: I can't say for certain. Isn't this going to hurt John Kerry's, seeing all these Democrats up there talking?
GREENFIELD: No. The last time Ed Koch was a liberal, George Michael was dating girls. This has nothing to do with this. It's been years. Ed Koch is against affirmative action, pro death penalty, supported Bush, supported Pataki. He's a Republican.
Let me tell you something, if the worst thing that happens to Kerry is he loses Zell "I haven't been a Democrat since John Warner was married to Liz Taylor" Miller...
FERGUSON: Miles?
O'BRIEN: Yes?
GREENFIELD: ... and he loses Ed Koch, the Democratic party is in great shape.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's...
GREENFIELD: ... who praised John Kerry as a great war hero.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's cue up Ben's mic here for a little bit. Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: You're going to lose people like Zell Miller and these other people that consider themselves Democrats, because if you look at John Kerry's record, let's be honest -- he supported the war in Iraq; he denied the funding for the war in Iraq; then he says he'd vote against the war in Iraq because he was misled; and then just a couple of weeks ago, he says now if I had to do it again, I again would vote for the war in Iraq.
So, tell me who's flip-flopping here, because it's not George Bush.
O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, Ben. Ben? Let's get real here. Isn't it -- couldn't it be perceived, if the Kerry campaign chose to characterize it, Mr. Bush's recent statement about catastrophic success -- whatever you want to call it -- that could be interpreted as a flip-flop, too, couldn't it?
FERGUSON: No, I mean, I think that it is success, and he said it takes sacrifice. And that's what's so frustrating is we act like it's going to be easy.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but he said -- he said -- at one point he said he couldn't think of a single mistake he made along the way, and now he's saying there are miscalculations. Isn't that a flip-flop?
FERGUSON: Wait a minute...
GREENFIELD: ... he's the guy who jumped on the boat with "Mission Accomplished" on it...
O'BRIEN: No, no, no, Ben -- Ben, you go first. Ben, first. Ben, go.
FERGUSON: You've got to look at the facts and you have to look that, yes, he admits he got bad intelligence. Who gave it to him? People that he didn't even put in there. You have a guy, George Tenet, who resigns...
GREENFIELD: Should have fired him.
FERGUSON: ... right before the commission report comes out because he knows he's going to get under heat for that. He did the best job he could at the time. That's why he's not walking away from it.
Sure there was intelligence mistakes, but they're not his fault.
O'BRIEN: All right. Sam...
FERGUSON: Is he going to take responsibility for that? No.
O'BRIEN: Sam, go.
GREENFIELD: That's exactly right -- nothing's his fault. He reappointed George Tenet. George Tenet wasn't dragged in like, let's say, a legacy at Yale. He was rehired. Ben, he was rehired.
Did he take credit for the war? Yes. How about "Mission Accomplished?" You know what happened after that?
FERGUSON: It was.
GREENFIELD: You know what happened after that sign? When they started blaming the Republicans for putting the sign up, they blamed the crewmen of the ship. They blamed the crewmen of the ship.
O'BRIEN: Well, wait -- and let me ask you this -- hey, Ben, isn't it sort of blaming the troops for being successful when you say catastrophic success in Iraq?
FERGUSON: No, I mean, he's not blaming the troops. And I'm going to say...
O'BRIEN: In other words, he did too good a job. You got to Baghdad too quickly; we weren't ready.
GREENFIELD: Success went to our heads.
FERGUSON: We won the war in Iraq very quickly. You got to look at this for a second and realize, yes, there's some chaos over there. But for goodness sakes, look at the D.C. sniper case. Two people made America literally stop and watch TV for like seven days. You have 100 people that disagree with George Bush in Iraq, they can cause what we consider mass chaos. It doesn't mean it's not a success in Iraq. And yes, people die...
GREENFIELD: Are we living in a country...
O'BRIEN: All right. Final thought -- final thought from Sam. Go, Sam.
GREENFIELD: Two things. When I think -- real quick, when I think of sacrifice, George W. Bush's name doesn't come to mind. And I can't believe...
FERGUSON: Unbelievable. And John Kerry did?
O'BRIEN: No, no, no -- hey, Ben, let him talk.
GREENFIELD: And I can't believe two snipers made anybody -- I can't believe two snipers made America watch TV. You've got to make America watch TV? They're watching right now.
FERGUSON: We stopped -- we stopped and watched it.
O'BRIEN: All right...
FERGUSON: And what I'm saying is if you look at Iraq, there are people -- a small group that are doing terrorist acts. And that's what we act like...
GREENFIELD: They're called Iraqis.
FERGUSON: ... oh, my God, it's out of control. We all need to leave. And you have to stick with it like George W. Bush has done...
GREENFIELD: We? We?
FERGUSON: ... and will continue to do no matter what anybody else says.
GREENFIELD: We.
FERGUSON: That's why he is the president.
GREENFIELD: Right, we.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen, thank you both very much for that rather reserved discourse.
FERGUSON: Thanks for having us.
GREENFIELD: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Sam Greenfield, Ben Ferguson -- here's Ben's book one more time. There it is. GREENFIELD: Let's get that up there.
FERGUSON: Thank you, sir. I owe you one.
O'BRIEN: Sam, do you have a book?
GREENFIELD: Yes, and I'm taking the Giants.
O'BRIEN: All right, Sam Greenfield.
GREENFIELD: Oh, oh -- no.
O'BRIEN: Not that kind of book. All right, Sam Greenfield, Ben Ferguson, thank you both so much. And as I often say, when the robots go nuts, open the pod bay doors, please, Hal.
All right. CNN's prime-time coverage of the RNC begins tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, Larry King -- all the superstars. 10:00 p.m. Eastern, Senator John McCain will take the stage. You won't want to miss that. That's followed by "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN." Larry King wraps up the night at midnight, because he just never sleeps when he's at a convention -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Well, major mishap at the Olympics. A Brazilian marathon runner goes for the finish when he's stopped dead in his tracks. Not necessary stopped, how about pummeled? Was his gold in his grasp? Tell us what you think.
Plus, an end to exports as tax in Iraq makes most of the oil supply go dry? Now, the prime minister weighs in. It's a CNN exclusive.
The Buckeye battleground: Why Ohio's the bullseye in this year's elections.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: News around the world now -- a Russian-backed candidate is the new president of Chechnya. Alu Alkhanov has been declared the winner of yesterday's election, which was marred by claims of fraud and violence. Alkhanov succeeds the president who was assassinated in May.
A claim of responsibility in Kabul: Al-Jazeera reports the Taliban set off a remote-controlled bomb that killed nine people over the weekend, including at least three Americans. The U.S. is warning Americans now in Afghanistan to keep a low profile.
And call it a Greek tragedy: On the final day of the Olympics, Brazilian marathon runner Valderlei de Lima was leading the pack and then -- check this out -- he's tackled by a man in a kilt. What's up with that?
De Lima slipped to third place and was rewarded -- or awarded a sportsmanship medal. Well, Brazilian sports officials say that he should get the gold. Darn right he should get the gold. And they plan to ask world track authorities for a duplicate medal. Come on!
So, what do you think? Should he get the gold? E-mail us at livefrom@cnn.com. Miles and I are protesting.
O'BRIEN: I mean, they give him the Miss Congeniality award...
PHILLIPS: That is -- yes, to made him quiet.
O'BRIEN: ... to try to silence him. Yes.
PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. Forget that. He deserves the gold. He was way ahead of everybody else. This jerk comes and tackles him.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: It's not right.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely. And that guy apparently ran out in the middle of a Formula 1 race a few months back.
PHILLIPS: Yes, he did the same thing.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: You know, he's trying to be famous for -- you know.
O'BRIEN: All right. We're not how sure how smart it is to run in front of a Formula 1 race.
PHILLIPS: Yes. Actually, maybe we should encourage him to do that.
All right, we're going to read some of your responses later in the show -- your e-mails.
O'BRIEN: OK. In Iraq -- much more serious story now -- there's no word on the fate of two French journalists snatched by Islamic radicals.
The militants have issued a deadline that expires today for France to revoke its ban on Islamic head scarves in schools. Now, France has said it will not comply with that demand.
There's word today that the U.S. ambassador to Iraq wants more money for security. "The Wall Street Journal" reporting John Negroponte wants to shift more than $3 billion in aid earmarked for water, sewage, and electricity projects over to security, oil output, and job creation. This comes a day after insurgents struck at least five pipelines in southern Iraq. Oil exports will be halted for several days.
PHILLIPS: Iraq's interim prime minister talked exclusively with CNN today about how the attacks on the lucrative oil industry are affecting Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: It is hurting Iraq quite badly -- the revenues, as you know, now the oil prices have increased dramatically. And this is causing a great loss for the Iraqi people in terms of revenues, which could be used in the reconstruction of the country and to pay the people and to get the economy cycle back again.
Unfortunately, this is not happening yet, because of the sabotage that is occurring all the time by terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Allawi says insurgents are bent on wrecking the political process and undermining Iraq to shake the peace of the world.
O'BRIEN: Well, if history is any gauge, they could be the 20 electoral votes that decide the election.
PHILLIPS: That's why all the eyes are on the Buckeye State from now until November. Up next, CNN's own Richard Quest is there -- of course, taking the pulse of Ohio residents -- Richard?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm going tell you why the Buckeye State is the battleground. This is ground zero in election 2004. Live from Ohio in just a moment.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I'm Tucker Carlson live in New York. Tonight's RNC marquee draw John McCain joins Judy Woodruff today at 3:00 for a special 90-minute edition of "INSIDE POLITICS." Hear his take on the state of the race.
Then, will Rudy Giuliani and John McCain really help Bush? Join me, Tucker Carlson, at 4:30 today with James Carville as we debate the convention. See you then.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Here's a trivia question for you. Who is the only man in the state of Ohio today in full Savile Row Bespoke?
PHILLIPS: It couldn't be Richard Quest?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It would be Richard Quest, wouldn't it. Yes, hello, Mr. Quest!
Good evening, hello. Yes, look, I thought even though I'm in the Buckeye State, when asked to dress appropriately, even the weather is dreadful, the politics are nasty, the state is split. Frankly, this is Ground Zero and I'm enjoying every minute of it!
PHILLIPS: You look good in your pinstriped suit!
QUEST: Well, now, look, let's talk about Cleveland. Thank you, my tailor will give me a discount next time. Ohio is being described by the "Plain Dealer" newspaper, the "Plain Deal" newspaper actually says five different states. From the northeast up here where I am in Cleveland, which is mainly Democrat through to the Appalachians, the poorest part of the state, across to the west which of course is much more Republican, and that is why it is so important, because you know, Kyra and Miles, we talk about Ohio as being the swing state. We have to ask ourselves, why is it the swing state? What is it about Ohio? It's lost jobs in manufacturing. It has conservative values. I could ramble on forever about why this state is so important. But President Bush and John Kerry come here again and again.
PHILLIPS: Sorry, Richard...
O'BRIEN: I thought you were going to ramble on forever.
PHILLIPS: And then all of a sudden I heard the producer say, "we're really tight on time. We got to go."
O'BRIEN: Are we done? We're done with Richard?
PHILLIPS: We have some more time now. Oh, she changed her mind!
O'BRIEN: Let's talk...
QUEST: So what have you done for me lately?
O'BRIEN: Let's talk history for a moment. Who was the last president to be elected not having won Ohio? Ohio is always the linchpin, isn't it?
QUEST: Right. There are two presidents, two Democrat presidents that have not been -- that have been elected without taking Ohio. JFK and President Roosevelt. Every Republican president has had to win Ohio if they were going to take the White House. That's why perhaps from George Bush's point of view it, is so much more important. From the Democrats' point of view, there is precedent not to win here.
O'BRIEN: Boy, you know, I got to say right there, Cleveland looks pretty good. Right there along the riverwalk there.
PHILLIPS: Beautiful day.
O'BRIEN: Looks nice.
PHILLIPS: You know, for a guy from London, he knows a lot about Ohio.
O'BRIEN: He does his homework.
QUEST: Hey, the only thing you need to know about Ohio at the moment is the Rock 'N' Roll hall of fame which is behind me. I can't show you because it's raining and it is raining and you need an umbrella and I'm under cover. That's all you need to know about Ohio today!
O'BRIEN: You, of course, have your Bumperchute with you, right?
QUEST: I beg your pardon? O'BRIEN: You have your umbrella? Don't you have your umbrella with you?
PHILLIPS: Bumperchute and his rubbers.
QUEST: I do indeed. Hang on a second. Stay there. Don't go anywhere.
O'BRIEN: That is definitely not -- that is so not Bespoke.
PHILLIPS: Haven't you been to Harrods lately for a new umbrella? Good grief.
O'BRIEN: Let's get that man a black umbrella, shall we?
QUEST: Haven't you ever heard that in a storm, any umbrella will do?
PHILLIPS: All right there, Phil Mickelson, we'll see you coming up.
O'BRIEN: Thank you so much.
QUEST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: All right, well, I think we really hosed our producer.
O'BRIEN: Coming up, in our next hour we would have done Fred Katayama but instead we talked about an umbrella. Our apologies.
A peek at the jury questionnaire in the Kobe Bryant case, we'll tell you about that, and we'll have the rest of the day's news when LIVE FROM's "Hour Power" begins after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Live from New York, it's GOP TV. The Republicans' turn to get their message across to voters, and their man back in the White House.
I'm Suzanne Malveaux traveling with the president in Nashua, New Hampshire. That is where he is trying to capture the coveted 37 percent of registered voters who have yet to declare whether or not they're Democrat or Republican.
PHILLIPS: Is the Taliban making a comeback? A deadly bombing in Afghanistan raises some questions.
O'BRIEN: Attention chocolate lovers, your dark obsession could help prevent heart disease. Yes, you heard us right. We've got the sweet health news and that's one reason to stay tuned. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips as our CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now. O'BRIEN: We begin this hour with the ceremonial beginnings of the RNC. Like all party conventions it's a star-spangled mix of symbolism, tradition, and now and then some actual substance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman and delegates, it is my great honor and high privilege to nominate George W. Bush, a strong and compassionate leader to the office of president of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: All right. Not exactly a "stop the presses" moment but while that was being crossed off the Republicans' to-do list in New York City, the candidate was in New Hampshire, a state known both for conservatism and stubborn independence. You know the license plates there, "Live Free or Die.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is there. Hello, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well, hello, Miles. President Bush of course...
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Aired August 30, 2004 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, a ruling in the Kobe Bryant trial. The judge rejects a media request to open more of jury selection to the public. Today, lawyers begin questioning potential jurors one by one. Last week, hundreds of people filed out -- filled out forms, rather, asking, among other things, how they feel about interracial relationships, African-Americans, and mental health experts.
A call to end the fighting in Iraq: Rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordering his followers to lay down their arms, except for self-defense. An aide says al-Sadr is waiting for the right time to announce plans to join the political process.
You're looking at live pictures now from Madison Square Garden where George Bush's name has officially been placed in the nomination at the RNC. Dick Cheney's there also, and the dramatic roll call of the states is underway. It will continue through Wednesday. The convention culminates with George Bush's acceptance speech, of course, on Thursday.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, an army of talk radio hosts have descended on a political convention there to inform, entertain, hopefully not bloviate.
Ben Ferguson, author of the new book hey, "It's my America Too" -- and Sam Greenfield, both syndicated talk show hosts with some very different perspectives. Let me get your book cover on there. I don't want to get you upset there.
BEN FERGUSON, AUTHOR, "It's My America Too": Thank you, sir.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's start with you, Ben, since I have your book in my hand. What the heck is a catastrophic success?
FERGUSON: For me, or for this campaign?
O'BRIEN: No, I mean that is the biggest oxymoron to come down the pike since military intelligence.
FERGUSON: I mean, this campaign is going to be a success. You know, if you look at what George Bush has been able to do, and you look at the people that are coming in here and the people that are supporting him, he's on his way to a success, and that's what's so exciting.
O'BRIEN: No, no, no. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking what does that term mean? Define that phrase. FERGUSON: Catastrophic success?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
FERGUSON: It's doing what people say isn't possible. People are saying he's not going to win this election...
O'BRIEN: No, no, no, no. He's not talking about the election. He's talking about Iraq.
FERGUSON: Well, I mean, catastrophic -- it is a success. I that that Iraq is a success. I think that, you know, you look at Iraq and you look at what has happened there. We've liberated a ton of people. We've given that country democracy.
I mean, what else -- it takes sacrifice, and we don't understand that. We don't understand what it means to sacrifice.
O'BRIEN: I tried. Sam, why don't you take a whack at defining catastrophic success?
SAM GREENFIELD, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I don't have enough college degrees to interpret that. I'm sorry. I give it my best shot.
But here's the point: It doesn't matter about us debating it, because what he meant was -- what he meant was it's a success that came with a catastrophic price. What bothers me more is a couple of days ago, he said he may have miscalculated the amount of resistance in Iraq. That bothers me more.
Listen, there are Bushisms all the time, but it doesn't affect the American electorate because they're tied...
O'BRIEN: But you know what? Let me ask you...
GREENFIELD: They're tied -- now, wait a minute, they're tied. So, it doesn't affect votes.
O'BRIEN: Sam, let me ask you this, though. Maybe there is some 'strategery' here. Maybe it's possible the president is doing this right now to sort of go after some of his soft spots in the sense that voters might perceive him as not admitting to some mistakes along the way on the road to Baghdad.
GREENFIELD: I think that what George Bush's strength among his voters is that he goes down one inexorable path. And he's not going to vary from that path. He thinks that this is a long haul, and it's going to cost a lot of lives, and we're going to be there forever, and we underestimated the amount of military strength...
FERGUSON: We're going to be there as long as it takes to get the job done.
GREENFIELD: ... Rumsfeld. And we're going to be there after Ben's grandkids are ineligible for military, and that's got to be two, 300 years.
O'BRIEN: All right -- Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. All right. Why don't you start over, because we couldn't hear anything you were saying because you were talking at the same time. Go ahead.
FERGUSON: No. I mean, people don't understand what sacrifice means in this country anymore. Why don't we fool ourselves and act like the war in Iraq is going to be settled in the time it takes to watch a sitcom?
GREENFIELD: That's true, because when I think of sacrifice, I think of George W. Bush.
FERGUSON: It takes -- it takes time...
O'BRIEN: Ben, Ben, Ben, the point is -- the point is the president has really shifted his rhetoric right here at the 11th hour, hasn't he?
Oh, my goodness.
FERGUSON: Absolutely not.
O'BRIEN: Here I am. I thought if I stand up here --
PHILLIPS: Stand up and take a stand.
O'BRIEN: The president has shifting his rhetoric; the robots have lost control here. Ben, go.
FERGUSON: No, I mean, look, he had resolve. He's sticking on the course, and he doesn't care what anyone else says about it, because he knows what his mission is, he knows what the plan is, and ask the truth -- ask the 20-something-year-olds over there right now, they're fighting this war in Iraq...
GREENFIELD: But what's the truth part of that? The truth part is we're in the wrong country.
O'BRIEN: Hey, hey -- all right, Ben, let's give Sam a moment here, OK?
GREENFIELD: We're in the wrong country -- excuse me, Ben, that was your 18 minutes.
We're in the wrong country. Last time I checked, Osama bin Laden was not there. He was in another country. We are going after the wrong guy. As Richard Brooks said, it's like being bombed at Pearl Harbor and invading Mexico.
O'BRIEN: All right, hey, I'll tell you what, let's shift gears here. Sam, let's shift gears here for one second.
GREENFIELD: OK.
O'BRIEN: You've got Ed Koch, you've got Zell Miller. GREENFIELD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You've got -- gosh, Ron Silver. For all we know, Dexter Freebish is a former Democrat, now Republican.
GREENFIELD: Right, right.
O'BRIEN: I can't say for certain. Isn't this going to hurt John Kerry's, seeing all these Democrats up there talking?
GREENFIELD: No. The last time Ed Koch was a liberal, George Michael was dating girls. This has nothing to do with this. It's been years. Ed Koch is against affirmative action, pro death penalty, supported Bush, supported Pataki. He's a Republican.
Let me tell you something, if the worst thing that happens to Kerry is he loses Zell "I haven't been a Democrat since John Warner was married to Liz Taylor" Miller...
FERGUSON: Miles?
O'BRIEN: Yes?
GREENFIELD: ... and he loses Ed Koch, the Democratic party is in great shape.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's...
GREENFIELD: ... who praised John Kerry as a great war hero.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's cue up Ben's mic here for a little bit. Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: You're going to lose people like Zell Miller and these other people that consider themselves Democrats, because if you look at John Kerry's record, let's be honest -- he supported the war in Iraq; he denied the funding for the war in Iraq; then he says he'd vote against the war in Iraq because he was misled; and then just a couple of weeks ago, he says now if I had to do it again, I again would vote for the war in Iraq.
So, tell me who's flip-flopping here, because it's not George Bush.
O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, Ben. Ben? Let's get real here. Isn't it -- couldn't it be perceived, if the Kerry campaign chose to characterize it, Mr. Bush's recent statement about catastrophic success -- whatever you want to call it -- that could be interpreted as a flip-flop, too, couldn't it?
FERGUSON: No, I mean, I think that it is success, and he said it takes sacrifice. And that's what's so frustrating is we act like it's going to be easy.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but he said -- he said -- at one point he said he couldn't think of a single mistake he made along the way, and now he's saying there are miscalculations. Isn't that a flip-flop?
FERGUSON: Wait a minute...
GREENFIELD: ... he's the guy who jumped on the boat with "Mission Accomplished" on it...
O'BRIEN: No, no, no, Ben -- Ben, you go first. Ben, first. Ben, go.
FERGUSON: You've got to look at the facts and you have to look that, yes, he admits he got bad intelligence. Who gave it to him? People that he didn't even put in there. You have a guy, George Tenet, who resigns...
GREENFIELD: Should have fired him.
FERGUSON: ... right before the commission report comes out because he knows he's going to get under heat for that. He did the best job he could at the time. That's why he's not walking away from it.
Sure there was intelligence mistakes, but they're not his fault.
O'BRIEN: All right. Sam...
FERGUSON: Is he going to take responsibility for that? No.
O'BRIEN: Sam, go.
GREENFIELD: That's exactly right -- nothing's his fault. He reappointed George Tenet. George Tenet wasn't dragged in like, let's say, a legacy at Yale. He was rehired. Ben, he was rehired.
Did he take credit for the war? Yes. How about "Mission Accomplished?" You know what happened after that?
FERGUSON: It was.
GREENFIELD: You know what happened after that sign? When they started blaming the Republicans for putting the sign up, they blamed the crewmen of the ship. They blamed the crewmen of the ship.
O'BRIEN: Well, wait -- and let me ask you this -- hey, Ben, isn't it sort of blaming the troops for being successful when you say catastrophic success in Iraq?
FERGUSON: No, I mean, he's not blaming the troops. And I'm going to say...
O'BRIEN: In other words, he did too good a job. You got to Baghdad too quickly; we weren't ready.
GREENFIELD: Success went to our heads.
FERGUSON: We won the war in Iraq very quickly. You got to look at this for a second and realize, yes, there's some chaos over there. But for goodness sakes, look at the D.C. sniper case. Two people made America literally stop and watch TV for like seven days. You have 100 people that disagree with George Bush in Iraq, they can cause what we consider mass chaos. It doesn't mean it's not a success in Iraq. And yes, people die...
GREENFIELD: Are we living in a country...
O'BRIEN: All right. Final thought -- final thought from Sam. Go, Sam.
GREENFIELD: Two things. When I think -- real quick, when I think of sacrifice, George W. Bush's name doesn't come to mind. And I can't believe...
FERGUSON: Unbelievable. And John Kerry did?
O'BRIEN: No, no, no -- hey, Ben, let him talk.
GREENFIELD: And I can't believe two snipers made anybody -- I can't believe two snipers made America watch TV. You've got to make America watch TV? They're watching right now.
FERGUSON: We stopped -- we stopped and watched it.
O'BRIEN: All right...
FERGUSON: And what I'm saying is if you look at Iraq, there are people -- a small group that are doing terrorist acts. And that's what we act like...
GREENFIELD: They're called Iraqis.
FERGUSON: ... oh, my God, it's out of control. We all need to leave. And you have to stick with it like George W. Bush has done...
GREENFIELD: We? We?
FERGUSON: ... and will continue to do no matter what anybody else says.
GREENFIELD: We.
FERGUSON: That's why he is the president.
GREENFIELD: Right, we.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen, thank you both very much for that rather reserved discourse.
FERGUSON: Thanks for having us.
GREENFIELD: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Sam Greenfield, Ben Ferguson -- here's Ben's book one more time. There it is. GREENFIELD: Let's get that up there.
FERGUSON: Thank you, sir. I owe you one.
O'BRIEN: Sam, do you have a book?
GREENFIELD: Yes, and I'm taking the Giants.
O'BRIEN: All right, Sam Greenfield.
GREENFIELD: Oh, oh -- no.
O'BRIEN: Not that kind of book. All right, Sam Greenfield, Ben Ferguson, thank you both so much. And as I often say, when the robots go nuts, open the pod bay doors, please, Hal.
All right. CNN's prime-time coverage of the RNC begins tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, Larry King -- all the superstars. 10:00 p.m. Eastern, Senator John McCain will take the stage. You won't want to miss that. That's followed by "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN." Larry King wraps up the night at midnight, because he just never sleeps when he's at a convention -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Well, major mishap at the Olympics. A Brazilian marathon runner goes for the finish when he's stopped dead in his tracks. Not necessary stopped, how about pummeled? Was his gold in his grasp? Tell us what you think.
Plus, an end to exports as tax in Iraq makes most of the oil supply go dry? Now, the prime minister weighs in. It's a CNN exclusive.
The Buckeye battleground: Why Ohio's the bullseye in this year's elections.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: News around the world now -- a Russian-backed candidate is the new president of Chechnya. Alu Alkhanov has been declared the winner of yesterday's election, which was marred by claims of fraud and violence. Alkhanov succeeds the president who was assassinated in May.
A claim of responsibility in Kabul: Al-Jazeera reports the Taliban set off a remote-controlled bomb that killed nine people over the weekend, including at least three Americans. The U.S. is warning Americans now in Afghanistan to keep a low profile.
And call it a Greek tragedy: On the final day of the Olympics, Brazilian marathon runner Valderlei de Lima was leading the pack and then -- check this out -- he's tackled by a man in a kilt. What's up with that?
De Lima slipped to third place and was rewarded -- or awarded a sportsmanship medal. Well, Brazilian sports officials say that he should get the gold. Darn right he should get the gold. And they plan to ask world track authorities for a duplicate medal. Come on!
So, what do you think? Should he get the gold? E-mail us at livefrom@cnn.com. Miles and I are protesting.
O'BRIEN: I mean, they give him the Miss Congeniality award...
PHILLIPS: That is -- yes, to made him quiet.
O'BRIEN: ... to try to silence him. Yes.
PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. Forget that. He deserves the gold. He was way ahead of everybody else. This jerk comes and tackles him.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: It's not right.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely. And that guy apparently ran out in the middle of a Formula 1 race a few months back.
PHILLIPS: Yes, he did the same thing.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: You know, he's trying to be famous for -- you know.
O'BRIEN: All right. We're not how sure how smart it is to run in front of a Formula 1 race.
PHILLIPS: Yes. Actually, maybe we should encourage him to do that.
All right, we're going to read some of your responses later in the show -- your e-mails.
O'BRIEN: OK. In Iraq -- much more serious story now -- there's no word on the fate of two French journalists snatched by Islamic radicals.
The militants have issued a deadline that expires today for France to revoke its ban on Islamic head scarves in schools. Now, France has said it will not comply with that demand.
There's word today that the U.S. ambassador to Iraq wants more money for security. "The Wall Street Journal" reporting John Negroponte wants to shift more than $3 billion in aid earmarked for water, sewage, and electricity projects over to security, oil output, and job creation. This comes a day after insurgents struck at least five pipelines in southern Iraq. Oil exports will be halted for several days.
PHILLIPS: Iraq's interim prime minister talked exclusively with CNN today about how the attacks on the lucrative oil industry are affecting Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: It is hurting Iraq quite badly -- the revenues, as you know, now the oil prices have increased dramatically. And this is causing a great loss for the Iraqi people in terms of revenues, which could be used in the reconstruction of the country and to pay the people and to get the economy cycle back again.
Unfortunately, this is not happening yet, because of the sabotage that is occurring all the time by terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Allawi says insurgents are bent on wrecking the political process and undermining Iraq to shake the peace of the world.
O'BRIEN: Well, if history is any gauge, they could be the 20 electoral votes that decide the election.
PHILLIPS: That's why all the eyes are on the Buckeye State from now until November. Up next, CNN's own Richard Quest is there -- of course, taking the pulse of Ohio residents -- Richard?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm going tell you why the Buckeye State is the battleground. This is ground zero in election 2004. Live from Ohio in just a moment.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I'm Tucker Carlson live in New York. Tonight's RNC marquee draw John McCain joins Judy Woodruff today at 3:00 for a special 90-minute edition of "INSIDE POLITICS." Hear his take on the state of the race.
Then, will Rudy Giuliani and John McCain really help Bush? Join me, Tucker Carlson, at 4:30 today with James Carville as we debate the convention. See you then.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Here's a trivia question for you. Who is the only man in the state of Ohio today in full Savile Row Bespoke?
PHILLIPS: It couldn't be Richard Quest?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It would be Richard Quest, wouldn't it. Yes, hello, Mr. Quest!
Good evening, hello. Yes, look, I thought even though I'm in the Buckeye State, when asked to dress appropriately, even the weather is dreadful, the politics are nasty, the state is split. Frankly, this is Ground Zero and I'm enjoying every minute of it!
PHILLIPS: You look good in your pinstriped suit!
QUEST: Well, now, look, let's talk about Cleveland. Thank you, my tailor will give me a discount next time. Ohio is being described by the "Plain Dealer" newspaper, the "Plain Deal" newspaper actually says five different states. From the northeast up here where I am in Cleveland, which is mainly Democrat through to the Appalachians, the poorest part of the state, across to the west which of course is much more Republican, and that is why it is so important, because you know, Kyra and Miles, we talk about Ohio as being the swing state. We have to ask ourselves, why is it the swing state? What is it about Ohio? It's lost jobs in manufacturing. It has conservative values. I could ramble on forever about why this state is so important. But President Bush and John Kerry come here again and again.
PHILLIPS: Sorry, Richard...
O'BRIEN: I thought you were going to ramble on forever.
PHILLIPS: And then all of a sudden I heard the producer say, "we're really tight on time. We got to go."
O'BRIEN: Are we done? We're done with Richard?
PHILLIPS: We have some more time now. Oh, she changed her mind!
O'BRIEN: Let's talk...
QUEST: So what have you done for me lately?
O'BRIEN: Let's talk history for a moment. Who was the last president to be elected not having won Ohio? Ohio is always the linchpin, isn't it?
QUEST: Right. There are two presidents, two Democrat presidents that have not been -- that have been elected without taking Ohio. JFK and President Roosevelt. Every Republican president has had to win Ohio if they were going to take the White House. That's why perhaps from George Bush's point of view it, is so much more important. From the Democrats' point of view, there is precedent not to win here.
O'BRIEN: Boy, you know, I got to say right there, Cleveland looks pretty good. Right there along the riverwalk there.
PHILLIPS: Beautiful day.
O'BRIEN: Looks nice.
PHILLIPS: You know, for a guy from London, he knows a lot about Ohio.
O'BRIEN: He does his homework.
QUEST: Hey, the only thing you need to know about Ohio at the moment is the Rock 'N' Roll hall of fame which is behind me. I can't show you because it's raining and it is raining and you need an umbrella and I'm under cover. That's all you need to know about Ohio today!
O'BRIEN: You, of course, have your Bumperchute with you, right?
QUEST: I beg your pardon? O'BRIEN: You have your umbrella? Don't you have your umbrella with you?
PHILLIPS: Bumperchute and his rubbers.
QUEST: I do indeed. Hang on a second. Stay there. Don't go anywhere.
O'BRIEN: That is definitely not -- that is so not Bespoke.
PHILLIPS: Haven't you been to Harrods lately for a new umbrella? Good grief.
O'BRIEN: Let's get that man a black umbrella, shall we?
QUEST: Haven't you ever heard that in a storm, any umbrella will do?
PHILLIPS: All right there, Phil Mickelson, we'll see you coming up.
O'BRIEN: Thank you so much.
QUEST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: All right, well, I think we really hosed our producer.
O'BRIEN: Coming up, in our next hour we would have done Fred Katayama but instead we talked about an umbrella. Our apologies.
A peek at the jury questionnaire in the Kobe Bryant case, we'll tell you about that, and we'll have the rest of the day's news when LIVE FROM's "Hour Power" begins after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Live from New York, it's GOP TV. The Republicans' turn to get their message across to voters, and their man back in the White House.
I'm Suzanne Malveaux traveling with the president in Nashua, New Hampshire. That is where he is trying to capture the coveted 37 percent of registered voters who have yet to declare whether or not they're Democrat or Republican.
PHILLIPS: Is the Taliban making a comeback? A deadly bombing in Afghanistan raises some questions.
O'BRIEN: Attention chocolate lovers, your dark obsession could help prevent heart disease. Yes, you heard us right. We've got the sweet health news and that's one reason to stay tuned. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips as our CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now. O'BRIEN: We begin this hour with the ceremonial beginnings of the RNC. Like all party conventions it's a star-spangled mix of symbolism, tradition, and now and then some actual substance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman and delegates, it is my great honor and high privilege to nominate George W. Bush, a strong and compassionate leader to the office of president of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: All right. Not exactly a "stop the presses" moment but while that was being crossed off the Republicans' to-do list in New York City, the candidate was in New Hampshire, a state known both for conservatism and stubborn independence. You know the license plates there, "Live Free or Die.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is there. Hello, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well, hello, Miles. President Bush of course...
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