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3 Navy Seals Charged with Death of Iraq Detainee; Chuck Norris Talks Martial Arts for At-Risk Kids
Aired September 24, 2004 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just under six weeks to the election and the latest CNN analysis is not a pretty picture for John Kerry. According to our analysis of the all-important Electoral College, two more states have moved into President Bush's column. He's ahead in both Iowa and New Hampshire. A candidate needs 270 votes, as you know, to win the presidency.
Well, in vote-rich Florida where 27 Electoral College votes are up for grabs, Bush has a slight lead over Kerry. A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows the president with 49 percent support against 46 percent for Kerry among likely voters.
That difference, however, is within the 4-point sampling error.
One issue that could sway swing voters is health care. Both candidates have their own prescription for rising costs and people who cannot afford the care.
In the conclusion of her series "Promises, Promises," Kelly Wallace compares their proposals.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Neither candidate can dispute these facts: 45 million Americans without health insurance, health care premiums skyrocketing, up 64 percent since 2000 -- ammunition for the challenger.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has had four years to just talk to you about it, but he doesn't even have a plan.
WALLACE: The president fires a few shots of his own.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm running against a fellow who has put out a health care plan that is massive. It is complicated. It is a blueprint to have the government control your health care.
WALLACE: The rhetoric from both men exceeds the reality, but still two very different approaches: a limited role for the federal government from Mr. Bush versus a more expansive one from Senator Kerry.
KERRY: I have a plan that will lower the cost of health care for all people who have it today. WALLACE: The senator pledges to slash health care premiums by up to $1,000 per year by having the federal government pick up the tab for the most expensive claims, making federal health plans available to individuals and small businesses, and offering a 50 percent tax credit to small businesses providing coverage.
The reality? A hefty price tag: $653 billion over 10 years according to the Kerry campaign, $1.5 trillion according to Kerry's critics. And some economists say the Kerry plan might not encourage Americans to be more price-conscious about health care.
BUSH: One way we can control health care costs is to allow small businesses to share risk.
WALLACE: The president promises to lower costs by pooling together small businesses, providing tax-free accounts for families to save money for out-of-pocket medical costs, and offering tax credits of up to $3,000 to help low-income families purchase coverage.
The reality? Mr. Bush's plan is cheaper, costing $145 billion over 10 years, but far less reaching, covering just 11 million not- now-insured, fewer than half the newly-covered under Kerry's proposal.
And the president's plan could result in healthy and affluent consumers taking some of their money out of traditional insurance and putting it in private tax-free accounts. Critics say this could raise costs for everybody else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: No matter who wins in November, enacting health care reform will be tough. The winning candidate will have to contend with Congress, a record budget deficit, and also the reality, Kyra, that health care costs show no signs of slowing down anytime soon -- Kyra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: What do you think, could this issue prove to be the divisive one -- or decisive one? I guess both words, I guess I could say.
WALLACE: Yes.
PHILLIPS: In November, right?
WALLACE: Divisive and decisive. It's a good point and a good question, Kyra. It ranks up there very high when you look at the polls. Voters saying they want to hear the candidates talk more about this issue and that this is one of the top issues to them.
But right now, I mean, you just look at what the candidates are talking about, Iraq, homeland security, at least at this moment in the campaign it does seem like those issues are taking center stage.
But again, as you go out and talk to voters, they say these issues are important. Senator Kerry seems to have somewhat of an advantage on this issue. But again, these other issues, such as homeland security and the war in Iraq are definitely center stage right now.
PHILLIPS: All right. Kelly worked double duty, she did "AMERICAN MORNING", put this whole series together all week. And she came back, she was with us. Thank you, Kelly.
WALLACE: So, she can take a break now?
PHILLIPS: That's right. Take the weekend off. Relax. Don't worry about the hurricane. Everything will be just fine.
WALLACE: OK. Great. We'll talk on Monday.
PHILLIPS: All right, Kelly, thanks a lot.
WALLACE: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Well, the candidate's first debate is next Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific. CNN will have live coverage of all of the debates.
Well, straight ahead, a year after September 11th, a filmmaker decided to sneak into Afghanistan and make a movie. The result is "September Tapes." We're going to preview it for you and talk to the director live, coming up next.
And later, Chuck Norris in the house. Find out about the action/adventure in his life off screen. He's also says he's going to teach me a few moves. Right, Chuck?
CHUCK NORRIS, ACTOR: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: And you recognize this guy in the picture? That's right. Why do you think Bush Senior is in such good shape? Because Chuck said you better or else. Is that right?
NORRIS: That's right. Actually, he kept me in shape.
PHILLIPS: All right. I'm not going running with you pal.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, you're about to meet a daring documentarian on LIVE FROM -- a man who not only risked his life for searching for Osama bin Laden, but met with a bounty hunter in Afghanistan ready to kill the terrorists responsible for 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN JOHNSTON, FILMMAKER: Do you mind if we film? Abat (ph) won't talk on camera, but he told me he's leaving to go on the trail of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. He's invited us to document his hunt. We're on our way to the Pakistani border.
JOHNSTON: So, given that you're not afraid, how do you intend to find him? You're hunting him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. If hunting is killing, yes, I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: This footage from "September Tapes" is no doubt chilling, but I have to tell you now, it's actually a hybrid of fact and fiction. I bet it got your attention, though, and that's exactly what film director Christian Johnston wanted to do.
"September Tapes" is in theaters now, the first independent film shot entirely in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban. Christian Johnson joins me now from Los Angeles to talk about his film and the adventure.
Wow. I got to tell you, Christian, it was pretty amazing looking at the various clips. I can't wait to go to the theater and see the whole movie.
JOHNSTON: Thanks for having me.
PHILLIPS: Well, tell me about how you came up with this idea, and why did you do it?
JOHNSTON: I think right after 9/11, a lot of us were wondering what was happening with the hunt for al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. So, we wanted to shoot a film; we wanted to do a documentary at the same time. And we ended up folding them basically into a hybrid film, a reality-fiction.
And I think we realized that we weren't going to get any financial support, so we funded it ourselves, and basically got into Afghanistan under the radar and shot this film during the war. So, it was a rare opportunity to actually cover what was happening there and to sort of present it as sort of a fictional film that's just combining actual evidence of what was going on there.
PHILLIPS: And it could be a little confusing if you don't understand the concept. How do you know what is real -- like what really happened there when you were filming, and what you created for the film?
JOHNSTON: Well, I think we wanted to create something where you never know exactly what you are watching, and you can be put into sort of visceral moment at any time.
And I think it's something that audiences, after they get finished, can sort of question what they saw. And I think it goes beyond just maybe being in a movie theater. Maybe if audiences can question what they see on television and what they read in the papers to really try to get to the bottom of what was really happening.
For that was sort of our modus to go into Afghanistan was to try to shed light on what was real, what did we know as American viewers watching television. And it was something that we wanted to create that sort of is echoed right now, you know, on the eve of the elections to try to find out what the real stories are.
PHILLIPS: Well, did you ever -- did U.S. forces ever get confused about what you were doing and come in and say, "Wait a minute. Is this real, or is this part of the movie?"
JOHNSTON: We only had contact with two Delta Force Rangers while we were in Afghanistan. There was no other Western journalist that we saw or Western military. So, for us, we didn't have that contact.
We were with the Northern Alliance Forces, and they were the ones that actually escorted us and sort of took us on this wild ride near Pakistan, where there was a lot of live explosions and live fire that happened while we were shooting the film.
PHILLIPS: Was there ever a point where you thought, that's it, I'm dead.
JOHNSTON: I think when you go in there and you find out there's a bounty on Westerners' heads and you weren't surrounded by military or United Nations, at every point your imagination is pretty much running wild. So, we felt that constantly.
PHILLIPS: So, did you discover anything that we don't know. Did you find out if OBL is alive? Did you find out anything out about the government that maybe we don't know about?
JOHNSTON: I think that we discovered, within the alliance forces, were very open in telling us that they believe Osama escaped during the cease-fire in cloud cover. And the Northern Alliance Forces really trusted us. And we have a lot of this in the film, actual documentation of evidence of these guys telling us stories of what they saw and where hey were in Tora Bora.
So, a lot of the interviews and all this stuff is all real. And inside of the film, audiences can see there's some really interesting facts that they saw when they were there in the hunt for terror and believing that Osama was in Waziristan. And this was two years ago when we shot this film, and it's just now that I think the U.S. forces have really narrowed him into the Waziristan area. And in this film, you'll see a lot of actual stories of sort of the hunt for Osama and the trail that he led past host (ph) into Waziristan.
PHILLIPS: I got to tell you, it's pretty riveting. And I even know the Department of Defense had to look at all your tapes.
Christian Johnston -- once again, the film is "September Tapes." It's out in theaters now. Thanks so much. And you're going to let us know what the next assignment is, right?
JOHNSTON: Yeah, we'll fill you in from there. PHILLIPS: OK. Chuck Norris will be starring in it.
JOHNSTON: All right. Perfect.
PHILLIPS: Christian, thanks for your time.
JOHNSTON: All right, thanks.
PHILLIPS: Speaking of Chuck, he's up next. He's here. He's in the house. You probably know him best from the movies and TV, but he has some fascinating real-life stories, too. We're going to talk about him, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, ever since he was born, Chuck Norris' mom told him, God has plans for you. And it was probably was hard for Chuck to understand that since as a kid he was selling scrap iron for a penny a pound just to put food on his family's table.
But because of Chuck's mom, granny and a few heroes like John Wayne and Roy Rogers, well, he learned a code of the west that would lead him on a professional and spiritual journey to great things.
He talks about that journey and all the special people in his life in his new book "Against All Odds: My Story." Chuck Norris joins me here in Atlanta.
What a pleasure.
NORRIS: Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.
PHILLIPS: And a great read, too. I enjoyed the book. Well, let's talk about this code of the west. Tell our viewers what you mean by that.
NORRIS: Well, you know, not having a father, you know, my father is an alcoholic and a philanderer, he wasn't in my life very much. I had to create images of a father, you know, a positive image. And these Western heroes became my surrogate father, my imaginary father growing up.
PHILLIPS: Well, and mom, she took on a role pretty quickly, considering your father's situation with you and your brothers. Tell us about mom.
NORRIS: Well, mom -- of course, mom was our force. She is the one that kept me spiritually grounded growing up, which helped keep me from drifting in the wrong direction in my life. But again, mom wasn't a father. So she couldn't give me the things I needed to become secure in my life in a physical way and athletically, too.
So the martial arts is what turned my whole life around. Because when I graduated from high school and I went to Korea, I got exposed to the martial arts for the first time and that really transformed me from a real introverted kid to trying to achieve successes in my life. NORRIS: And I taught for 15 years and worked with thousands of young kids. But these are kids that I was able to help raise their self-esteem, and give them some self-worth.
PHILLIPS: Now you are going back to March Air Force Base where you taught your first class, right?
NORRIS: Oh yes.
PHILLIPS: Sort of like, who is this guy? Wait a minute, this is worse than boot camp. We've got Chuck Norris.
NORRIS: Well, in the book, it talks -- you know, because I went all the way through high school and never get in front of the class and never talked. I was so shy that when the teachers say, why don't you come to class and give a talk or give a book report, I'd just shake my head no, because I was afraid my face would turn red.
Of course, it would turn red anyway sitting at the desk. But I was so insecure. And then when I came to March Air Force Base to give my first demonstration, I gave my first talk and I was 21 years old.
PHILLIPS: Wow. So you were -- it was when you were serving in Korea that you got introduced to karate.
NORRIS: Right.
PHILLIPS: OK. Now your brother, let's talk for a moment about your two brothers because they are -- were special to you. I know you lost one of your brothers.
NORRIS: Yes, well, growing up, you know, all we had was each other. I had my two brothers and my mom. That was basically it. And I lost one brother in Vietnam and then my other brother, who is 11 years younger than me, he was scheduled to go to Vietnam too. He was in the Army as well. And in fact, we were able to get him, you know, out of going to Vietnam. Now he's my partner. He's my co-executive producer of my shows and stuff.
PHILLIPS: You even actually kind of had a premonition, your other brother, though, that he wasn't going to live that long.
NORRIS: Actually, when he was 12 years old, he said, I won't live to be 28. And mom and I never really thought much of it. But he died June 1970, he would have been 28 July 12th.
PHILLIPS: Wow.
NORRIS: So it's really amazing.
PHILLIPS: Well, personal relationships, also you have met a lot of famous people in your life. Here I am talking to you, you are famous now. But Dean Martin. You talk about Dean Martin, this picture of you two.
NORRIS: My first movie "The Wrecking Crew" I did with Dean Martin.
PHILLIPS: What was that like? Did you sing together? Because I know you sing the open to your show, "Walker Texas Ranger."
NORRIS: Well, that will be the only one I'll ever do, too, believe me. But no -- but it was fun, doing my first film. I had one line: "May I, Mr. Helm (ph)," which I studied for two weeks trying to learn that line. And of course, I blew it. I said, well, there goes my film career right out the window. But of course, this is 1968 and I was still heavily into the martial arts. I had no aspirations of being an actor.
PHILLIPS: And I know you loved Bruce Lee. I want to get to the kids, though. Let's definitely hit on the inner city kids because now you remember what it was like to grow up with hardly anything. Your mom was such a great influence on you, a strong mother. Now tell me what you are doing with these kids and your foundation.
NORRIS: Well, like I say, I teach the martial arts at the inner city schools, again, with the purpose of raising these kids' self esteem, instilling the discipline and respect so many kids are lacking. In fact, the book is dedicated to Rachel Scott, the girl who was killed in the Columbine shooting. And she was shot because she espoused her faith. And these are the kind of kids we work with, the kids who are lost souls, wounded spirits.
PHILLIPS: Well, the ones that opened fire in that high school, if they would have had the discipline...
NORRIS: Exactly.
PHILLIPS: You know, have the karate. It's that whole mental, spiritual...
NORRIS: Well, the self-esteem. Because they have no self-esteem so they try to make a statement in a destructive way. And I really do believe if we had had these young boys that -- in raising their self- esteem and still in that respect, that I think we could have prevented that from happening.
And that's what we work with, we work with thousands of kids. I have 5,000 -- over 5,000 kids in the program. I have graduated 30,000 kids over the last 12 years. And many of these at-risk kids going on to college and becoming successful in their own right.
PHILLIPS: All right. We have got to toss to Judy with "INSIDE POLITICS," but real quickly, your wife Gena, and your twins, you almost lost those twins. Talk about a blessing in your life.
NORRIS: Twice almost lost them during the pregnancy, yes.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Things are good now?
NORRIS: It's all in the book. And plus, I should say all the proceeds of this go to these at-risk kids.
PHILLIPS: Excellent. I wish we could talk for more. Judy, can you hear me OK?
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I can. Fascinating discussion.
PHILLIPS: I have Chuck Norris here. He said he would actually teach you some martial arts. Would you be interested?
WOODRUFF: I could use that during this campaign.
PHILLIPS: She said she could use it on this campaign trail.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: All right, Judy. Take it away.
WOODRUFF: Thanks, Kyra, very much, and thanks to Chuck as well.
Today we are going to look on "INSIDE POLITICS" at the new war of words brewing between Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the man who wants to be president.
Plus, as the first fall face-off approaches, will the organizers in the campaigns be able to agree?
And the name of the Washington Redskins has caused much controversy over the years. But are American Indians really offended by the name? The results of a new poll may surprise you. "INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Breaking news now, this just coming in to CNN. Let's get straight to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, news breaking about three Navy Seals being charged.
What with, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, more on the prison abuse front. Three U.S. Navy Seals charged in the death of an Iraqi detainee in Mosul. Now a total of seven Navy Seals charged in various death cases in Iraq.
In a separate matter, CNN has learned two soldiers of the 1st Cavalry Division in Baghdad who are charged with premeditated murder, it stemmed now from an incident last month in Sadr City. They are believed to have been responsible for the shooting death of three unarmed Iraqis.
According to the Pentagon, the U.S. Army's Criminal Investigative Division, has carried now over 200 cases of detainee abuse on its books -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon. We'll have more on this breaking story with Judy Woodruff and "INSIDE POLITICS," it begins right now.
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Aired September 24, 2004 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just under six weeks to the election and the latest CNN analysis is not a pretty picture for John Kerry. According to our analysis of the all-important Electoral College, two more states have moved into President Bush's column. He's ahead in both Iowa and New Hampshire. A candidate needs 270 votes, as you know, to win the presidency.
Well, in vote-rich Florida where 27 Electoral College votes are up for grabs, Bush has a slight lead over Kerry. A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows the president with 49 percent support against 46 percent for Kerry among likely voters.
That difference, however, is within the 4-point sampling error.
One issue that could sway swing voters is health care. Both candidates have their own prescription for rising costs and people who cannot afford the care.
In the conclusion of her series "Promises, Promises," Kelly Wallace compares their proposals.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Neither candidate can dispute these facts: 45 million Americans without health insurance, health care premiums skyrocketing, up 64 percent since 2000 -- ammunition for the challenger.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has had four years to just talk to you about it, but he doesn't even have a plan.
WALLACE: The president fires a few shots of his own.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm running against a fellow who has put out a health care plan that is massive. It is complicated. It is a blueprint to have the government control your health care.
WALLACE: The rhetoric from both men exceeds the reality, but still two very different approaches: a limited role for the federal government from Mr. Bush versus a more expansive one from Senator Kerry.
KERRY: I have a plan that will lower the cost of health care for all people who have it today. WALLACE: The senator pledges to slash health care premiums by up to $1,000 per year by having the federal government pick up the tab for the most expensive claims, making federal health plans available to individuals and small businesses, and offering a 50 percent tax credit to small businesses providing coverage.
The reality? A hefty price tag: $653 billion over 10 years according to the Kerry campaign, $1.5 trillion according to Kerry's critics. And some economists say the Kerry plan might not encourage Americans to be more price-conscious about health care.
BUSH: One way we can control health care costs is to allow small businesses to share risk.
WALLACE: The president promises to lower costs by pooling together small businesses, providing tax-free accounts for families to save money for out-of-pocket medical costs, and offering tax credits of up to $3,000 to help low-income families purchase coverage.
The reality? Mr. Bush's plan is cheaper, costing $145 billion over 10 years, but far less reaching, covering just 11 million not- now-insured, fewer than half the newly-covered under Kerry's proposal.
And the president's plan could result in healthy and affluent consumers taking some of their money out of traditional insurance and putting it in private tax-free accounts. Critics say this could raise costs for everybody else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: No matter who wins in November, enacting health care reform will be tough. The winning candidate will have to contend with Congress, a record budget deficit, and also the reality, Kyra, that health care costs show no signs of slowing down anytime soon -- Kyra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: What do you think, could this issue prove to be the divisive one -- or decisive one? I guess both words, I guess I could say.
WALLACE: Yes.
PHILLIPS: In November, right?
WALLACE: Divisive and decisive. It's a good point and a good question, Kyra. It ranks up there very high when you look at the polls. Voters saying they want to hear the candidates talk more about this issue and that this is one of the top issues to them.
But right now, I mean, you just look at what the candidates are talking about, Iraq, homeland security, at least at this moment in the campaign it does seem like those issues are taking center stage.
But again, as you go out and talk to voters, they say these issues are important. Senator Kerry seems to have somewhat of an advantage on this issue. But again, these other issues, such as homeland security and the war in Iraq are definitely center stage right now.
PHILLIPS: All right. Kelly worked double duty, she did "AMERICAN MORNING", put this whole series together all week. And she came back, she was with us. Thank you, Kelly.
WALLACE: So, she can take a break now?
PHILLIPS: That's right. Take the weekend off. Relax. Don't worry about the hurricane. Everything will be just fine.
WALLACE: OK. Great. We'll talk on Monday.
PHILLIPS: All right, Kelly, thanks a lot.
WALLACE: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Well, the candidate's first debate is next Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific. CNN will have live coverage of all of the debates.
Well, straight ahead, a year after September 11th, a filmmaker decided to sneak into Afghanistan and make a movie. The result is "September Tapes." We're going to preview it for you and talk to the director live, coming up next.
And later, Chuck Norris in the house. Find out about the action/adventure in his life off screen. He's also says he's going to teach me a few moves. Right, Chuck?
CHUCK NORRIS, ACTOR: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: And you recognize this guy in the picture? That's right. Why do you think Bush Senior is in such good shape? Because Chuck said you better or else. Is that right?
NORRIS: That's right. Actually, he kept me in shape.
PHILLIPS: All right. I'm not going running with you pal.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, you're about to meet a daring documentarian on LIVE FROM -- a man who not only risked his life for searching for Osama bin Laden, but met with a bounty hunter in Afghanistan ready to kill the terrorists responsible for 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN JOHNSTON, FILMMAKER: Do you mind if we film? Abat (ph) won't talk on camera, but he told me he's leaving to go on the trail of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. He's invited us to document his hunt. We're on our way to the Pakistani border.
JOHNSTON: So, given that you're not afraid, how do you intend to find him? You're hunting him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. If hunting is killing, yes, I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: This footage from "September Tapes" is no doubt chilling, but I have to tell you now, it's actually a hybrid of fact and fiction. I bet it got your attention, though, and that's exactly what film director Christian Johnston wanted to do.
"September Tapes" is in theaters now, the first independent film shot entirely in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban. Christian Johnson joins me now from Los Angeles to talk about his film and the adventure.
Wow. I got to tell you, Christian, it was pretty amazing looking at the various clips. I can't wait to go to the theater and see the whole movie.
JOHNSTON: Thanks for having me.
PHILLIPS: Well, tell me about how you came up with this idea, and why did you do it?
JOHNSTON: I think right after 9/11, a lot of us were wondering what was happening with the hunt for al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. So, we wanted to shoot a film; we wanted to do a documentary at the same time. And we ended up folding them basically into a hybrid film, a reality-fiction.
And I think we realized that we weren't going to get any financial support, so we funded it ourselves, and basically got into Afghanistan under the radar and shot this film during the war. So, it was a rare opportunity to actually cover what was happening there and to sort of present it as sort of a fictional film that's just combining actual evidence of what was going on there.
PHILLIPS: And it could be a little confusing if you don't understand the concept. How do you know what is real -- like what really happened there when you were filming, and what you created for the film?
JOHNSTON: Well, I think we wanted to create something where you never know exactly what you are watching, and you can be put into sort of visceral moment at any time.
And I think it's something that audiences, after they get finished, can sort of question what they saw. And I think it goes beyond just maybe being in a movie theater. Maybe if audiences can question what they see on television and what they read in the papers to really try to get to the bottom of what was really happening.
For that was sort of our modus to go into Afghanistan was to try to shed light on what was real, what did we know as American viewers watching television. And it was something that we wanted to create that sort of is echoed right now, you know, on the eve of the elections to try to find out what the real stories are.
PHILLIPS: Well, did you ever -- did U.S. forces ever get confused about what you were doing and come in and say, "Wait a minute. Is this real, or is this part of the movie?"
JOHNSTON: We only had contact with two Delta Force Rangers while we were in Afghanistan. There was no other Western journalist that we saw or Western military. So, for us, we didn't have that contact.
We were with the Northern Alliance Forces, and they were the ones that actually escorted us and sort of took us on this wild ride near Pakistan, where there was a lot of live explosions and live fire that happened while we were shooting the film.
PHILLIPS: Was there ever a point where you thought, that's it, I'm dead.
JOHNSTON: I think when you go in there and you find out there's a bounty on Westerners' heads and you weren't surrounded by military or United Nations, at every point your imagination is pretty much running wild. So, we felt that constantly.
PHILLIPS: So, did you discover anything that we don't know. Did you find out if OBL is alive? Did you find out anything out about the government that maybe we don't know about?
JOHNSTON: I think that we discovered, within the alliance forces, were very open in telling us that they believe Osama escaped during the cease-fire in cloud cover. And the Northern Alliance Forces really trusted us. And we have a lot of this in the film, actual documentation of evidence of these guys telling us stories of what they saw and where hey were in Tora Bora.
So, a lot of the interviews and all this stuff is all real. And inside of the film, audiences can see there's some really interesting facts that they saw when they were there in the hunt for terror and believing that Osama was in Waziristan. And this was two years ago when we shot this film, and it's just now that I think the U.S. forces have really narrowed him into the Waziristan area. And in this film, you'll see a lot of actual stories of sort of the hunt for Osama and the trail that he led past host (ph) into Waziristan.
PHILLIPS: I got to tell you, it's pretty riveting. And I even know the Department of Defense had to look at all your tapes.
Christian Johnston -- once again, the film is "September Tapes." It's out in theaters now. Thanks so much. And you're going to let us know what the next assignment is, right?
JOHNSTON: Yeah, we'll fill you in from there. PHILLIPS: OK. Chuck Norris will be starring in it.
JOHNSTON: All right. Perfect.
PHILLIPS: Christian, thanks for your time.
JOHNSTON: All right, thanks.
PHILLIPS: Speaking of Chuck, he's up next. He's here. He's in the house. You probably know him best from the movies and TV, but he has some fascinating real-life stories, too. We're going to talk about him, coming up.
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PHILLIPS: Well, ever since he was born, Chuck Norris' mom told him, God has plans for you. And it was probably was hard for Chuck to understand that since as a kid he was selling scrap iron for a penny a pound just to put food on his family's table.
But because of Chuck's mom, granny and a few heroes like John Wayne and Roy Rogers, well, he learned a code of the west that would lead him on a professional and spiritual journey to great things.
He talks about that journey and all the special people in his life in his new book "Against All Odds: My Story." Chuck Norris joins me here in Atlanta.
What a pleasure.
NORRIS: Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.
PHILLIPS: And a great read, too. I enjoyed the book. Well, let's talk about this code of the west. Tell our viewers what you mean by that.
NORRIS: Well, you know, not having a father, you know, my father is an alcoholic and a philanderer, he wasn't in my life very much. I had to create images of a father, you know, a positive image. And these Western heroes became my surrogate father, my imaginary father growing up.
PHILLIPS: Well, and mom, she took on a role pretty quickly, considering your father's situation with you and your brothers. Tell us about mom.
NORRIS: Well, mom -- of course, mom was our force. She is the one that kept me spiritually grounded growing up, which helped keep me from drifting in the wrong direction in my life. But again, mom wasn't a father. So she couldn't give me the things I needed to become secure in my life in a physical way and athletically, too.
So the martial arts is what turned my whole life around. Because when I graduated from high school and I went to Korea, I got exposed to the martial arts for the first time and that really transformed me from a real introverted kid to trying to achieve successes in my life. NORRIS: And I taught for 15 years and worked with thousands of young kids. But these are kids that I was able to help raise their self-esteem, and give them some self-worth.
PHILLIPS: Now you are going back to March Air Force Base where you taught your first class, right?
NORRIS: Oh yes.
PHILLIPS: Sort of like, who is this guy? Wait a minute, this is worse than boot camp. We've got Chuck Norris.
NORRIS: Well, in the book, it talks -- you know, because I went all the way through high school and never get in front of the class and never talked. I was so shy that when the teachers say, why don't you come to class and give a talk or give a book report, I'd just shake my head no, because I was afraid my face would turn red.
Of course, it would turn red anyway sitting at the desk. But I was so insecure. And then when I came to March Air Force Base to give my first demonstration, I gave my first talk and I was 21 years old.
PHILLIPS: Wow. So you were -- it was when you were serving in Korea that you got introduced to karate.
NORRIS: Right.
PHILLIPS: OK. Now your brother, let's talk for a moment about your two brothers because they are -- were special to you. I know you lost one of your brothers.
NORRIS: Yes, well, growing up, you know, all we had was each other. I had my two brothers and my mom. That was basically it. And I lost one brother in Vietnam and then my other brother, who is 11 years younger than me, he was scheduled to go to Vietnam too. He was in the Army as well. And in fact, we were able to get him, you know, out of going to Vietnam. Now he's my partner. He's my co-executive producer of my shows and stuff.
PHILLIPS: You even actually kind of had a premonition, your other brother, though, that he wasn't going to live that long.
NORRIS: Actually, when he was 12 years old, he said, I won't live to be 28. And mom and I never really thought much of it. But he died June 1970, he would have been 28 July 12th.
PHILLIPS: Wow.
NORRIS: So it's really amazing.
PHILLIPS: Well, personal relationships, also you have met a lot of famous people in your life. Here I am talking to you, you are famous now. But Dean Martin. You talk about Dean Martin, this picture of you two.
NORRIS: My first movie "The Wrecking Crew" I did with Dean Martin.
PHILLIPS: What was that like? Did you sing together? Because I know you sing the open to your show, "Walker Texas Ranger."
NORRIS: Well, that will be the only one I'll ever do, too, believe me. But no -- but it was fun, doing my first film. I had one line: "May I, Mr. Helm (ph)," which I studied for two weeks trying to learn that line. And of course, I blew it. I said, well, there goes my film career right out the window. But of course, this is 1968 and I was still heavily into the martial arts. I had no aspirations of being an actor.
PHILLIPS: And I know you loved Bruce Lee. I want to get to the kids, though. Let's definitely hit on the inner city kids because now you remember what it was like to grow up with hardly anything. Your mom was such a great influence on you, a strong mother. Now tell me what you are doing with these kids and your foundation.
NORRIS: Well, like I say, I teach the martial arts at the inner city schools, again, with the purpose of raising these kids' self esteem, instilling the discipline and respect so many kids are lacking. In fact, the book is dedicated to Rachel Scott, the girl who was killed in the Columbine shooting. And she was shot because she espoused her faith. And these are the kind of kids we work with, the kids who are lost souls, wounded spirits.
PHILLIPS: Well, the ones that opened fire in that high school, if they would have had the discipline...
NORRIS: Exactly.
PHILLIPS: You know, have the karate. It's that whole mental, spiritual...
NORRIS: Well, the self-esteem. Because they have no self-esteem so they try to make a statement in a destructive way. And I really do believe if we had had these young boys that -- in raising their self- esteem and still in that respect, that I think we could have prevented that from happening.
And that's what we work with, we work with thousands of kids. I have 5,000 -- over 5,000 kids in the program. I have graduated 30,000 kids over the last 12 years. And many of these at-risk kids going on to college and becoming successful in their own right.
PHILLIPS: All right. We have got to toss to Judy with "INSIDE POLITICS," but real quickly, your wife Gena, and your twins, you almost lost those twins. Talk about a blessing in your life.
NORRIS: Twice almost lost them during the pregnancy, yes.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Things are good now?
NORRIS: It's all in the book. And plus, I should say all the proceeds of this go to these at-risk kids.
PHILLIPS: Excellent. I wish we could talk for more. Judy, can you hear me OK?
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I can. Fascinating discussion.
PHILLIPS: I have Chuck Norris here. He said he would actually teach you some martial arts. Would you be interested?
WOODRUFF: I could use that during this campaign.
PHILLIPS: She said she could use it on this campaign trail.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: All right, Judy. Take it away.
WOODRUFF: Thanks, Kyra, very much, and thanks to Chuck as well.
Today we are going to look on "INSIDE POLITICS" at the new war of words brewing between Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the man who wants to be president.
Plus, as the first fall face-off approaches, will the organizers in the campaigns be able to agree?
And the name of the Washington Redskins has caused much controversy over the years. But are American Indians really offended by the name? The results of a new poll may surprise you. "INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Breaking news now, this just coming in to CNN. Let's get straight to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, news breaking about three Navy Seals being charged.
What with, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, more on the prison abuse front. Three U.S. Navy Seals charged in the death of an Iraqi detainee in Mosul. Now a total of seven Navy Seals charged in various death cases in Iraq.
In a separate matter, CNN has learned two soldiers of the 1st Cavalry Division in Baghdad who are charged with premeditated murder, it stemmed now from an incident last month in Sadr City. They are believed to have been responsible for the shooting death of three unarmed Iraqis.
According to the Pentagon, the U.S. Army's Criminal Investigative Division, has carried now over 200 cases of detainee abuse on its books -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon. We'll have more on this breaking story with Judy Woodruff and "INSIDE POLITICS," it begins right now.
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