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Flu Vaccine Shortage Expected; What Will V.P. Debate Bring?; Bremer Remarks Put Pentagon on Defense; U.S. Officer Shares Experiences Training Iraqis
Aired October 05, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Unarmed, against the flu. U.S. health officials are warning, quote, "There will be a vaccine shortage in the months ahead," not may, but will, in light of the British government's suspension of a major vaccine manufacturer's license to produce.
Let's get the straight scoop now from CNN's medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. She's got the follow-up for us.
What's the latest?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's really not sounding good. I mean, in the United States, they hope to vaccinate about 80 million people this flu season, which is the vaccination season, starting right now.
Well, this company in England, they made 40 of those 80 million. And so about half, then, of the vaccine supply for the United States now cannot be sent to the United States because of contamination at a plant in Liverpool, England.
And so that surely will mean that many people who were expecting to get their vaccinations may not be able to do so.
And the U.S. officials have not really said yet what exactly they plan on doing about this. They've known for a couple of months that this was a possibility. They knew that there were possibly these problems with that Liverpool plant.
PHILLIPS: So what do you do now?
COHEN: Well, what you do now is you go and get a flu shot. You try to get a flu shot, because there are clinics open right, now if you are at high risk and if you need a flu shot.
Chances are the CDC and other authorities are going to say, "Look, if you're a young, healthy person and just you want a flu shot, don't get it. Wait for the high-risk people to get it."
Here are the high-risk people up on our screen now: children ages 6 to 23 months. They're supposed to get not just one, but two doses of a flu shot. That's -- this year is the first time that the CDC has recommended that.
Adults age 65 and over are supposed to get flu shots. Adults and children with any kind of chronic illness such as asthma. And people who can spread flu to those at high risk. Also, pregnant women are supposed to get a flu shot.
Now let's talk a bit about that, children there. Children ages 6 to 23 months are supposed to get not just one but two doses of the flu shot. That's what will protect them.
So this is really not a great year to have supply issues, because for the first time, they're telling these millions of children, "Hey, we want you to get a flu shot, but half of the supply doesn't exist." That's not good timing.
PHILLIPS: But that happens every year, doesn't it? There's always an issue with supply.
COHEN: Maybe not this year, but there does seem to be every year some issue with supply. People wonder, "Hey, why can't they get this straight?"
Well, one of the reasons is there -- there are very few companies that actually make flu vaccine. It's only two or three companies that supply it to the United States. And so when something goes wrong with just one company it has a huge impact.
Also, making a vaccine is a long and very complicated process, and something can go wrong at many different points along that process.
PHILLIPS: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, continue to follow it. Thank you so much.
PHILLIPS: Well, they wait in the wings, stick to the script and never upstage the main act. Tonight, though, it's the co-stars turning into the spotlight.
Dick Cheney and V.P. wannabe John Edwards face off in their one and only campaign debate. Their positions and personalities could hardly be more different.
Joining us for the preview are two other larger than life personas, CNN's own Judy Woodruff and NPR political editor, longtime friend of LIVE FROM and Judy's, Ken Rudin.
Hi, you guys.
KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: How are you?
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi, there. How are you?
PHILLIPS: Great to have you. Very good. Very Good.
Well, Judy, I just wanted to take folks back in time for a minute. We remember when you moderated the Quayle/Bentsen debate. Kind of give us a -- we're going to see a lot of differences, aren't we?
WOODRUFF: Well, differences from that debate, certainly, because you had somebody running who was running then with then Vice President George Bush. He had chosen a young Senator in Dan Quayle. And you could say that was sort of the incumbent ticket, running against somebody more experienced.
This time -- in Senator Lloyd Bentsen. This time, it's the other way around. Of course, the incumbent is Dick Cheney, who has years, decades, of experience in Washington, running against the first-term senator from the state North Carolina.
So I suppose you could say it's the mirror image of what we had in '88.
PHILLIPS: Well, do you think it's going to be different with regard to questions and how you discuss what will be used and what won't be used? It was different then it was then now, right, with regard to the questions and the scripting?
WOODRUFF: Well, the format -- the format is somewhat different. I mean, they're going to be around -- sitting around a table. The moderator is Gwen Ifill of PBS. Then there were very tight restrictions on how long the answers could be, how long the rebuttals could be.
The onus truly is, I think, to a large -- of course, it's on the candidates, but on the moderator. Even though it's not -- the format doesn't call for follow-ups, to listen, to follow up. And knowing Gwen Ifill, knowing what a terrific journalist she is, I'm sure that's what she's going to do.
PHILLIPS: This definitely assumes a new importance, doesn't it, Ken? I mean, probably more people watching tonight than expected.
KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, especially the fact that -- considering the fact that a lot of people thought that George Bush was off his game last Thursday at the first presidential debate and that the polls have narrowed.
So I think this will be the most important thing in the campaign until the next important thing, which will be Friday's debate, debate two for Bush and Kerry.
But it is very important, because again, John Edwards has a good future in front of him. He could be vice president, or if Kerry loses this time, he could be a front-runner for 2008. A lot of people are looking ahead for John Edwards.
Whereas -- whereas Dick Cheney, this is his last campaign. But he's a -- he's steady; he's solid. He probably could articulate the Bush administration policy better than anybody, including the president.
So a lot is at stake for both -- both guys.
PHILLIPS: OK. We're looking at live picture right now of John Edwards speaking to a group of supporters. This is interesting. You probably knew that he was going to be on live television. We recognize the fact that he was out there with voters. Do you think he planned this prior to the debate?
RUDIN: Well, look, I think -- first of all, he won't be as animated tonight, because as Judy said, he'll be sitting at a table with Dick Cheney and Gwen Ifill. So he won't have that "walking around" trial lawyer thing he does so well.
But, again, you know, a lot of people think that this is exactly the reason why John Edwards was picked by John Kerry as vice president, for this very debate, to show the contrast between the future and, perhaps, the past, in Dick Cheney.
PHILLIPS: Now Judy, definitely tonight there are personal reputations at stake. I mean, you've got Dick Cheney and the whole swirling around of Halliburton. And then you've got John Edwards and being a trial lawyer, someone who, you know, won a lot of big dollar cases.
You think we'll see a lot of personal issues when it comes down to talking about ethics?
WOODRUFF: Yes, I don't have any doubt, Kyra, that both candidates are going to try to bring up the vulnerabilities of the other one. So I think we are going to hear that.
But -- but when all is said and done, what really matters here is Kerry and Bush, John Kerry and George Bush. So I think every chance Dick Cheney gets to go after John Kerry and what John Kerry has done, he's going to do that. Every chance John Edwards has to go after what the -- what the Bush/Cheney administration has done, and to a lesser degree what Cheney himself has done, they're going to do.
They're going to keep their eye, I fully expect, on the -- on the big picture here, at the same time they look at each other's vulnerabilities.
PHILLIPS: Ken, aside from vulnerabilities, let's talk about style. Let's talk about presence. First, Cheney and Bush. Do you think Cheney is the better speaker or Bush is the better speaker?
RUDIN: Cheney or Edwards, or Cheney or Bush?
PHILLIPS: No, talking about Cheney and Bush. Because you know, looking at the past debate, and obviously, there was a lot of criticism Bush didn't do so well. So will Cheney come out looking stronger than the president?
RUDIN: Well, you could always make the case that Cheney knows his policy. He's argued for the weapons of mass destruction. He's argued for the war in Iraq.
He can articulate -- as I said, he can probably articulate this policy better than anybody, including the president. Of course, Cheney is not -- people don't feel as relaxed with Cheney. His numbers are certainly not as good.
If you poll Edwards versus Cheney, Edwards comes out on top. But again as Judy said, we're voting Bush and Kerry, not Edwards and Cheney.
But Dick Cheney knows his stuff. He's been around a long time. Chief of staff in the 1970s to President Ford, secretary of defense under the first President Bush. His resume is far longer than John Edwards' less than six years in the president. So if you want gravitas, and we've used that word a lot, but if you want gravitas, Dick Cheney certainly has it.
WOODRUFF: All right. So Judy, when we look at John Kerry, a lot of people saying, hey, he got a boost from that debate. Now you've got John Edwards coming in.
Does he really have to worry so much? I mean, does he need to really push the momentum even farther, or does he just need to sort of relax, be himself, and kind of go into that trial lawyer mode?
WOODRUFF: I think there's a lot of pressure tonight on both John Edwards and Dick Cheney. Everything is riding, of course, on the election, and, you know, as Ken said a minute ago this debate is the most important thing going on in this campaign until the next debate.
And if either one of them does something that hurts their ticket, that hurts their chances, it's possible it could have repercussions well beyond that. They're both going to be trying their best not only not to make a mistake, but to advance their cause.
And, sure, for John Edwards, he wants to build on the momentum. In fact, I just him say at the beginning of this town hall meeting he's holding today here in Ohio, he said, "Look, when I -- when I sit there tonight, I'm going to be speaking for all of you people."
Maybe he's trying to pick up some energy from the crowd.
PHILLIPS: All right, Judy Woodruff. We're picking up on your energy at 3 p.m. with a special edition, of course, of "INSIDE POLITICS." It's been taking place. She's there at the scene.
Ken Rudin, thank you so much. And Ken, be sure to stay tuned, because your favorite story, Mount St. Helens, is coming up in just a minute.
RUDIN: Please let me know how it ends, OK?
PHILLIPS: All right. Ken and Judy, thank you so much.
RUDIN: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, one fact is beyond debate. And that's CNN, of course, is your home for comprehensive campaign coverage. Judy, of course, is well involved with that, including the V.P. showdown tonight and the second of three presidential debates on Friday. Our special prime time coverage of both events starts at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 Pacific.
Now Ken Rudin's favorite story, Mount St. Helens is at it again, blowing off steam for the second day in a row.
CNN's Ted Rowlands has a pretty good look at the mountain from a safe vantage point, about nine miles away.
Hi, Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
We have been watching this emission for the last hour. It is a -- it is a steam emission. But it is also filled with volcanic ash, more so than the other emissions that we have seen to this length -- to this point.
In fact, just a few minutes ago, the National Weather Service issued an ash fall advisory for the area northeast of Mount St. Helens. And that is, in effect, until 12:30, because the amount of ash in this cloud is to the degree where it could pose problems for folks on the ground and more importantly, for folks in the air.
So the FAA has been notified, and the airspace around this cloud has been restricted and closed off. And commercial airlines have also been alerted of this situation.
We had the exact same situation happen to us yesterday, with a steam emission. This one is different, not only because of the ash content within the emission, but also because of its length.
Yesterday's lasted about -- lasted about 50 minutes. We are well over an hour now. It is dissipating, in terms of intensity. It is now more of a broad just spewing of steam, instead of the columning of heavy steam, which we saw yesterday for a considerable amount of time.
Geologists say they expected this type of situation to happen and they expect it to happen again. And they also say that this has really nothing to do with the volcanic eruption that they are expecting. I shouldn't say nothing to do with it. But it's not impacting it.
The seismic activity on the volcano is not changing at all while these emissions are taking place. Meaning that it doesn't necessarily mean that magma is pushing, per se, this steam event. Rather than the pressure that was building over the last 24 hours, say, is what is doing it.
But they maintain that the big one is still to come. They're just not sure when or how intense it will be.
PHILLIPS: All right. Ted Rowlands, keeping the eye on the volcano there for us. Thank you so much.
Straight ahead on LIVE FROM...
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PHILLIPS: Comments today from the former U.S. civilian boss in Iraq are giving new ammunition to the Kerry campaign and putting the Pentagon on the defensive.
In at least two public appearance, L. Paul Bremer has lamented having, in his view, too few troops to keep the peace. Bremer says the U.S. paid a big price in terms of horrid looting and other post- invasion chaos.
And at a campaign event in Iowa today, Kerry said, in so many words, "told you so."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are a long list of mistakes, and I'm glad that Paul Bremer has finally admitted at least two of them. And the president of the United States needs to tell the truth to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Bremer issued a statement saying that he supports Bush's war plan and his re-election, but that surely won't be the end of it.
CNN's Barbara Starr picks up the story at the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.
Well, here at the Pentagon, officials are reacting to all of this, saying it really wasn't Paul Bremer's job to make any recommendations about more troops for Iraq. It was the job of the military commanders. They never made such a recommendation and that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld listens to his military commanders.
But, indeed, Paul Bremer now, as you say, twice in recent days and weeks, making new statements that his belief was there were not enough troops in Iraq.
What he said in West Virginia yesterday was that there were not enough troops on the ground once Baghdad fell and the looting began. And he says that led to lawlessness. Now, Mr. Bremer, issuing a statement, saying those remarks only focused on the time right after Baghdad fell.
But, at DePaul University in September, Paul Bremer made some remarks to students. And according to the DePaul University web site, quoting Ambassador Bremer, he went a step further in those remarks saying, quote, "The single most important change, the one thing that would have improved the situation, would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout. Although I raised this issue a number of times with our government, I should have been even more insistent."
Officials here again saying that when the -- during the time frame Paul Bremer served in Iraq, he was in constraint contact with the Pentagon, with the White House. He visited here several times.
And a spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying the secretary doesn't recall any point at which Paul Bremer directly brought up with him, at least, the need for more troops. And that if it had come up, the secretary would have paid a great deal of attention to that.
Again, officials saying, that really wasn't Paul Bremer's job -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon, thanks so much.
Well, the Iraqi insurrection is alive and well today in Mosul, Baqubah, Ramadi and Baghdad. But Samarra, in the flash point Sunni triangle, is back in the government fold, at least temporarily.
U.S. and Iraqi forces pushed into Samarra late last week, overrunning insurgents who had regrouped with a vengeance when U.S. troops pulled back at the end of June.
The commander of U.S. forces there now described the offensive as one small step in the city's rehabilitation.
And Army Colonel Randy Dragon joins us now live via videophone with more information and insight on the mission there.
Colonel, it's a pleasure to have you. And I hope you don't mind, before we get to Samarra, I just want to get your reaction to Paul Bremer and the comments that he made. It's a story we've been talking about today, about, in his view, there were too many -- too -- not enough troops, rather, to keep the peace. And now we're seeing this lawlessness that's taking place.
Do you feel that there needs to be more troops there on the ground as you deal with the insurgents?
COL. RANDY DRAGON, 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION: Well, good afternoon.
I think the best thing that we can probably look at here is the quality of forces that we have here. And with respect to the question, I would tell you that -- that one of the big things that's helping us here is that we have a maturing Iraqi security force.
That has grown in capacity and capability over the past six to eight months, due, in large part to the groundwork that was laid in the previous six months. So I think the -- as the Iraqi security force increases in capability, it will fill some of that gap and the requirement for troops.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about that. About 2,000 Iraqi troops helping you in what became an offensive mission there in Samarra. Do you think that was the key to success, in retaking this city from the insurgents?
DRAGON: There's no question about it. We had six Iraqi battalions involved in this operation. In total, there was approximately 2,500 soldiers, Iraqi security force soldiers, involved.
Now, they secured and seized key -- key locations and key points on the ground here in the city and performed absolutely magnificently throughout the operation. They did so in partner with their coalition force counterparts. They did it day and night, throughout the operation, and they're still out here, performing security operations in the city of Samarra.
PHILLIPS: Well, Colonel, you know all too well how important it is, not only to be able to handle a weapon, but the mental side of a soldier is so crucial. When you look into the eyes of these Iraqis, do you see more fear or do you see more passion at this point?
DRAGON: What I'm seeing is a very confident and competent force evolving. This force is going to take time to mature and grow, into a cohesive team. And as we get more experience, as we get more repetition, as we remain partnered with them, and work with them, what you're going to see is a mature force that -- that can conduct independent operations.
In fact, I have three Iraqi National Guard battalions that I work with full time throughout my sector. Fifty percent to 60 percent of their operations are conducted independently now, at the platoon level.
So you've got 30 or 40 Iraqi National Guard members out conducting operations on their own. And then they will come back, and on other missions, they'll join in with their multinational force partner and conduct a joint operation. So over 50 percent of these operations are currently conducted on their own.
PHILLIPS: Colonel, I want to ask you on a personal level, there you are, side by side with these men you've been training. And unfortunately, we can't talk to the Iraqi soldiers as much because of the language barrier, but has there been a moment, or maybe an intense moment in the middle of an operation, where you just had a glimmer of hope, or maybe a conversation or something, that an Iraqi soldier said to you where you thought, "OK, this is definitely going in the right direction. This is making me feel good as a battalion leader"?
DRAGON: I will tell you, throughout the brigade combat team, I've seen a number of actions, and they happen every day, where Iraqi National Guard, Iraqi police, in some cases, the special police or commando battalions that we've used during this operation, demonstrate the capability to operate independently.
It is a very, very bright future. It's more than a glimmer of hope. I think we're moving in the right direction. And we'll continue to move in the right direction.
But this is going take a little bit of time, and it's going to require a lot of work on the multinational force effort, a lot of work by the Iraqi government, a lot of work by our civil leaders. And a lot of work by the Iraqi security forces themselves.
PHILLIPS: Army Colonel Randy Dragon, battalion commander there for the 1st Infantry Division in Samarra. Sir, thank you so much for your time today.
DRAGON: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Once again, live pictures from Mount St. Helens. We're keeping our eye on this volcano as, once again, she teases us with a little steam today. We'll have more on Mount St. Helens and politics and the stock market, right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Live pictures once again from Mount St. Helens. Like we've been telling you, we've been keeping an eye on this volcano.
I guess this is in theme are our "National Geographic" segment. My producer says this is one of the most beautiful pictures of the day. So while this could become a little more volatile, and that's why we continue to monitor it, right now, she's calm, giving off a little steam. And there you have it.
It's a beautiful picture, via our affiliate, KOIN.
OK. And I'm told we have another one. We have it from all views. All views of the volcano, all the time, right here on CNN.
Now a double blow to the job market. A new survey shows that layoffs are soaring, while hiring is falling off. Rhonda Schaffler join us live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.
Hi, Rhonda.
(STOCK REPORT)
PHILLIPS: All right, Rhonda, we'll see you again real soon.
Well, CNN is live in Cleveland as Cheney and Edwards square off tonight. Join Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper and Paula Zahn for our primetime coverage, beginning at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific.
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Aired October 5, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, ANCHOR: Unarmed, against the flu. U.S. health officials are warning, quote, "There will be a vaccine shortage in the months ahead," not may, but will, in light of the British government's suspension of a major vaccine manufacturer's license to produce.
Let's get the straight scoop now from CNN's medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. She's got the follow-up for us.
What's the latest?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's really not sounding good. I mean, in the United States, they hope to vaccinate about 80 million people this flu season, which is the vaccination season, starting right now.
Well, this company in England, they made 40 of those 80 million. And so about half, then, of the vaccine supply for the United States now cannot be sent to the United States because of contamination at a plant in Liverpool, England.
And so that surely will mean that many people who were expecting to get their vaccinations may not be able to do so.
And the U.S. officials have not really said yet what exactly they plan on doing about this. They've known for a couple of months that this was a possibility. They knew that there were possibly these problems with that Liverpool plant.
PHILLIPS: So what do you do now?
COHEN: Well, what you do now is you go and get a flu shot. You try to get a flu shot, because there are clinics open right, now if you are at high risk and if you need a flu shot.
Chances are the CDC and other authorities are going to say, "Look, if you're a young, healthy person and just you want a flu shot, don't get it. Wait for the high-risk people to get it."
Here are the high-risk people up on our screen now: children ages 6 to 23 months. They're supposed to get not just one, but two doses of a flu shot. That's -- this year is the first time that the CDC has recommended that.
Adults age 65 and over are supposed to get flu shots. Adults and children with any kind of chronic illness such as asthma. And people who can spread flu to those at high risk. Also, pregnant women are supposed to get a flu shot.
Now let's talk a bit about that, children there. Children ages 6 to 23 months are supposed to get not just one but two doses of the flu shot. That's what will protect them.
So this is really not a great year to have supply issues, because for the first time, they're telling these millions of children, "Hey, we want you to get a flu shot, but half of the supply doesn't exist." That's not good timing.
PHILLIPS: But that happens every year, doesn't it? There's always an issue with supply.
COHEN: Maybe not this year, but there does seem to be every year some issue with supply. People wonder, "Hey, why can't they get this straight?"
Well, one of the reasons is there -- there are very few companies that actually make flu vaccine. It's only two or three companies that supply it to the United States. And so when something goes wrong with just one company it has a huge impact.
Also, making a vaccine is a long and very complicated process, and something can go wrong at many different points along that process.
PHILLIPS: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, continue to follow it. Thank you so much.
PHILLIPS: Well, they wait in the wings, stick to the script and never upstage the main act. Tonight, though, it's the co-stars turning into the spotlight.
Dick Cheney and V.P. wannabe John Edwards face off in their one and only campaign debate. Their positions and personalities could hardly be more different.
Joining us for the preview are two other larger than life personas, CNN's own Judy Woodruff and NPR political editor, longtime friend of LIVE FROM and Judy's, Ken Rudin.
Hi, you guys.
KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: How are you?
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi, there. How are you?
PHILLIPS: Great to have you. Very good. Very Good.
Well, Judy, I just wanted to take folks back in time for a minute. We remember when you moderated the Quayle/Bentsen debate. Kind of give us a -- we're going to see a lot of differences, aren't we?
WOODRUFF: Well, differences from that debate, certainly, because you had somebody running who was running then with then Vice President George Bush. He had chosen a young Senator in Dan Quayle. And you could say that was sort of the incumbent ticket, running against somebody more experienced.
This time -- in Senator Lloyd Bentsen. This time, it's the other way around. Of course, the incumbent is Dick Cheney, who has years, decades, of experience in Washington, running against the first-term senator from the state North Carolina.
So I suppose you could say it's the mirror image of what we had in '88.
PHILLIPS: Well, do you think it's going to be different with regard to questions and how you discuss what will be used and what won't be used? It was different then it was then now, right, with regard to the questions and the scripting?
WOODRUFF: Well, the format -- the format is somewhat different. I mean, they're going to be around -- sitting around a table. The moderator is Gwen Ifill of PBS. Then there were very tight restrictions on how long the answers could be, how long the rebuttals could be.
The onus truly is, I think, to a large -- of course, it's on the candidates, but on the moderator. Even though it's not -- the format doesn't call for follow-ups, to listen, to follow up. And knowing Gwen Ifill, knowing what a terrific journalist she is, I'm sure that's what she's going to do.
PHILLIPS: This definitely assumes a new importance, doesn't it, Ken? I mean, probably more people watching tonight than expected.
KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, especially the fact that -- considering the fact that a lot of people thought that George Bush was off his game last Thursday at the first presidential debate and that the polls have narrowed.
So I think this will be the most important thing in the campaign until the next important thing, which will be Friday's debate, debate two for Bush and Kerry.
But it is very important, because again, John Edwards has a good future in front of him. He could be vice president, or if Kerry loses this time, he could be a front-runner for 2008. A lot of people are looking ahead for John Edwards.
Whereas -- whereas Dick Cheney, this is his last campaign. But he's a -- he's steady; he's solid. He probably could articulate the Bush administration policy better than anybody, including the president.
So a lot is at stake for both -- both guys.
PHILLIPS: OK. We're looking at live picture right now of John Edwards speaking to a group of supporters. This is interesting. You probably knew that he was going to be on live television. We recognize the fact that he was out there with voters. Do you think he planned this prior to the debate?
RUDIN: Well, look, I think -- first of all, he won't be as animated tonight, because as Judy said, he'll be sitting at a table with Dick Cheney and Gwen Ifill. So he won't have that "walking around" trial lawyer thing he does so well.
But, again, you know, a lot of people think that this is exactly the reason why John Edwards was picked by John Kerry as vice president, for this very debate, to show the contrast between the future and, perhaps, the past, in Dick Cheney.
PHILLIPS: Now Judy, definitely tonight there are personal reputations at stake. I mean, you've got Dick Cheney and the whole swirling around of Halliburton. And then you've got John Edwards and being a trial lawyer, someone who, you know, won a lot of big dollar cases.
You think we'll see a lot of personal issues when it comes down to talking about ethics?
WOODRUFF: Yes, I don't have any doubt, Kyra, that both candidates are going to try to bring up the vulnerabilities of the other one. So I think we are going to hear that.
But -- but when all is said and done, what really matters here is Kerry and Bush, John Kerry and George Bush. So I think every chance Dick Cheney gets to go after John Kerry and what John Kerry has done, he's going to do that. Every chance John Edwards has to go after what the -- what the Bush/Cheney administration has done, and to a lesser degree what Cheney himself has done, they're going to do.
They're going to keep their eye, I fully expect, on the -- on the big picture here, at the same time they look at each other's vulnerabilities.
PHILLIPS: Ken, aside from vulnerabilities, let's talk about style. Let's talk about presence. First, Cheney and Bush. Do you think Cheney is the better speaker or Bush is the better speaker?
RUDIN: Cheney or Edwards, or Cheney or Bush?
PHILLIPS: No, talking about Cheney and Bush. Because you know, looking at the past debate, and obviously, there was a lot of criticism Bush didn't do so well. So will Cheney come out looking stronger than the president?
RUDIN: Well, you could always make the case that Cheney knows his policy. He's argued for the weapons of mass destruction. He's argued for the war in Iraq.
He can articulate -- as I said, he can probably articulate this policy better than anybody, including the president. Of course, Cheney is not -- people don't feel as relaxed with Cheney. His numbers are certainly not as good.
If you poll Edwards versus Cheney, Edwards comes out on top. But again as Judy said, we're voting Bush and Kerry, not Edwards and Cheney.
But Dick Cheney knows his stuff. He's been around a long time. Chief of staff in the 1970s to President Ford, secretary of defense under the first President Bush. His resume is far longer than John Edwards' less than six years in the president. So if you want gravitas, and we've used that word a lot, but if you want gravitas, Dick Cheney certainly has it.
WOODRUFF: All right. So Judy, when we look at John Kerry, a lot of people saying, hey, he got a boost from that debate. Now you've got John Edwards coming in.
Does he really have to worry so much? I mean, does he need to really push the momentum even farther, or does he just need to sort of relax, be himself, and kind of go into that trial lawyer mode?
WOODRUFF: I think there's a lot of pressure tonight on both John Edwards and Dick Cheney. Everything is riding, of course, on the election, and, you know, as Ken said a minute ago this debate is the most important thing going on in this campaign until the next debate.
And if either one of them does something that hurts their ticket, that hurts their chances, it's possible it could have repercussions well beyond that. They're both going to be trying their best not only not to make a mistake, but to advance their cause.
And, sure, for John Edwards, he wants to build on the momentum. In fact, I just him say at the beginning of this town hall meeting he's holding today here in Ohio, he said, "Look, when I -- when I sit there tonight, I'm going to be speaking for all of you people."
Maybe he's trying to pick up some energy from the crowd.
PHILLIPS: All right, Judy Woodruff. We're picking up on your energy at 3 p.m. with a special edition, of course, of "INSIDE POLITICS." It's been taking place. She's there at the scene.
Ken Rudin, thank you so much. And Ken, be sure to stay tuned, because your favorite story, Mount St. Helens, is coming up in just a minute.
RUDIN: Please let me know how it ends, OK?
PHILLIPS: All right. Ken and Judy, thank you so much.
RUDIN: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, one fact is beyond debate. And that's CNN, of course, is your home for comprehensive campaign coverage. Judy, of course, is well involved with that, including the V.P. showdown tonight and the second of three presidential debates on Friday. Our special prime time coverage of both events starts at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 Pacific.
Now Ken Rudin's favorite story, Mount St. Helens is at it again, blowing off steam for the second day in a row.
CNN's Ted Rowlands has a pretty good look at the mountain from a safe vantage point, about nine miles away.
Hi, Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
We have been watching this emission for the last hour. It is a -- it is a steam emission. But it is also filled with volcanic ash, more so than the other emissions that we have seen to this length -- to this point.
In fact, just a few minutes ago, the National Weather Service issued an ash fall advisory for the area northeast of Mount St. Helens. And that is, in effect, until 12:30, because the amount of ash in this cloud is to the degree where it could pose problems for folks on the ground and more importantly, for folks in the air.
So the FAA has been notified, and the airspace around this cloud has been restricted and closed off. And commercial airlines have also been alerted of this situation.
We had the exact same situation happen to us yesterday, with a steam emission. This one is different, not only because of the ash content within the emission, but also because of its length.
Yesterday's lasted about -- lasted about 50 minutes. We are well over an hour now. It is dissipating, in terms of intensity. It is now more of a broad just spewing of steam, instead of the columning of heavy steam, which we saw yesterday for a considerable amount of time.
Geologists say they expected this type of situation to happen and they expect it to happen again. And they also say that this has really nothing to do with the volcanic eruption that they are expecting. I shouldn't say nothing to do with it. But it's not impacting it.
The seismic activity on the volcano is not changing at all while these emissions are taking place. Meaning that it doesn't necessarily mean that magma is pushing, per se, this steam event. Rather than the pressure that was building over the last 24 hours, say, is what is doing it.
But they maintain that the big one is still to come. They're just not sure when or how intense it will be.
PHILLIPS: All right. Ted Rowlands, keeping the eye on the volcano there for us. Thank you so much.
Straight ahead on LIVE FROM...
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PHILLIPS: Comments today from the former U.S. civilian boss in Iraq are giving new ammunition to the Kerry campaign and putting the Pentagon on the defensive.
In at least two public appearance, L. Paul Bremer has lamented having, in his view, too few troops to keep the peace. Bremer says the U.S. paid a big price in terms of horrid looting and other post- invasion chaos.
And at a campaign event in Iowa today, Kerry said, in so many words, "told you so."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are a long list of mistakes, and I'm glad that Paul Bremer has finally admitted at least two of them. And the president of the United States needs to tell the truth to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Bremer issued a statement saying that he supports Bush's war plan and his re-election, but that surely won't be the end of it.
CNN's Barbara Starr picks up the story at the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.
Well, here at the Pentagon, officials are reacting to all of this, saying it really wasn't Paul Bremer's job to make any recommendations about more troops for Iraq. It was the job of the military commanders. They never made such a recommendation and that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld listens to his military commanders.
But, indeed, Paul Bremer now, as you say, twice in recent days and weeks, making new statements that his belief was there were not enough troops in Iraq.
What he said in West Virginia yesterday was that there were not enough troops on the ground once Baghdad fell and the looting began. And he says that led to lawlessness. Now, Mr. Bremer, issuing a statement, saying those remarks only focused on the time right after Baghdad fell.
But, at DePaul University in September, Paul Bremer made some remarks to students. And according to the DePaul University web site, quoting Ambassador Bremer, he went a step further in those remarks saying, quote, "The single most important change, the one thing that would have improved the situation, would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout. Although I raised this issue a number of times with our government, I should have been even more insistent."
Officials here again saying that when the -- during the time frame Paul Bremer served in Iraq, he was in constraint contact with the Pentagon, with the White House. He visited here several times.
And a spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying the secretary doesn't recall any point at which Paul Bremer directly brought up with him, at least, the need for more troops. And that if it had come up, the secretary would have paid a great deal of attention to that.
Again, officials saying, that really wasn't Paul Bremer's job -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon, thanks so much.
Well, the Iraqi insurrection is alive and well today in Mosul, Baqubah, Ramadi and Baghdad. But Samarra, in the flash point Sunni triangle, is back in the government fold, at least temporarily.
U.S. and Iraqi forces pushed into Samarra late last week, overrunning insurgents who had regrouped with a vengeance when U.S. troops pulled back at the end of June.
The commander of U.S. forces there now described the offensive as one small step in the city's rehabilitation.
And Army Colonel Randy Dragon joins us now live via videophone with more information and insight on the mission there.
Colonel, it's a pleasure to have you. And I hope you don't mind, before we get to Samarra, I just want to get your reaction to Paul Bremer and the comments that he made. It's a story we've been talking about today, about, in his view, there were too many -- too -- not enough troops, rather, to keep the peace. And now we're seeing this lawlessness that's taking place.
Do you feel that there needs to be more troops there on the ground as you deal with the insurgents?
COL. RANDY DRAGON, 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION: Well, good afternoon.
I think the best thing that we can probably look at here is the quality of forces that we have here. And with respect to the question, I would tell you that -- that one of the big things that's helping us here is that we have a maturing Iraqi security force.
That has grown in capacity and capability over the past six to eight months, due, in large part to the groundwork that was laid in the previous six months. So I think the -- as the Iraqi security force increases in capability, it will fill some of that gap and the requirement for troops.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about that. About 2,000 Iraqi troops helping you in what became an offensive mission there in Samarra. Do you think that was the key to success, in retaking this city from the insurgents?
DRAGON: There's no question about it. We had six Iraqi battalions involved in this operation. In total, there was approximately 2,500 soldiers, Iraqi security force soldiers, involved.
Now, they secured and seized key -- key locations and key points on the ground here in the city and performed absolutely magnificently throughout the operation. They did so in partner with their coalition force counterparts. They did it day and night, throughout the operation, and they're still out here, performing security operations in the city of Samarra.
PHILLIPS: Well, Colonel, you know all too well how important it is, not only to be able to handle a weapon, but the mental side of a soldier is so crucial. When you look into the eyes of these Iraqis, do you see more fear or do you see more passion at this point?
DRAGON: What I'm seeing is a very confident and competent force evolving. This force is going to take time to mature and grow, into a cohesive team. And as we get more experience, as we get more repetition, as we remain partnered with them, and work with them, what you're going to see is a mature force that -- that can conduct independent operations.
In fact, I have three Iraqi National Guard battalions that I work with full time throughout my sector. Fifty percent to 60 percent of their operations are conducted independently now, at the platoon level.
So you've got 30 or 40 Iraqi National Guard members out conducting operations on their own. And then they will come back, and on other missions, they'll join in with their multinational force partner and conduct a joint operation. So over 50 percent of these operations are currently conducted on their own.
PHILLIPS: Colonel, I want to ask you on a personal level, there you are, side by side with these men you've been training. And unfortunately, we can't talk to the Iraqi soldiers as much because of the language barrier, but has there been a moment, or maybe an intense moment in the middle of an operation, where you just had a glimmer of hope, or maybe a conversation or something, that an Iraqi soldier said to you where you thought, "OK, this is definitely going in the right direction. This is making me feel good as a battalion leader"?
DRAGON: I will tell you, throughout the brigade combat team, I've seen a number of actions, and they happen every day, where Iraqi National Guard, Iraqi police, in some cases, the special police or commando battalions that we've used during this operation, demonstrate the capability to operate independently.
It is a very, very bright future. It's more than a glimmer of hope. I think we're moving in the right direction. And we'll continue to move in the right direction.
But this is going take a little bit of time, and it's going to require a lot of work on the multinational force effort, a lot of work by the Iraqi government, a lot of work by our civil leaders. And a lot of work by the Iraqi security forces themselves.
PHILLIPS: Army Colonel Randy Dragon, battalion commander there for the 1st Infantry Division in Samarra. Sir, thank you so much for your time today.
DRAGON: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Once again, live pictures from Mount St. Helens. We're keeping our eye on this volcano as, once again, she teases us with a little steam today. We'll have more on Mount St. Helens and politics and the stock market, right after a quick break.
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PHILLIPS: Live pictures once again from Mount St. Helens. Like we've been telling you, we've been keeping an eye on this volcano.
I guess this is in theme are our "National Geographic" segment. My producer says this is one of the most beautiful pictures of the day. So while this could become a little more volatile, and that's why we continue to monitor it, right now, she's calm, giving off a little steam. And there you have it.
It's a beautiful picture, via our affiliate, KOIN.
OK. And I'm told we have another one. We have it from all views. All views of the volcano, all the time, right here on CNN.
Now a double blow to the job market. A new survey shows that layoffs are soaring, while hiring is falling off. Rhonda Schaffler join us live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.
Hi, Rhonda.
(STOCK REPORT)
PHILLIPS: All right, Rhonda, we'll see you again real soon.
Well, CNN is live in Cleveland as Cheney and Edwards square off tonight. Join Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper and Paula Zahn for our primetime coverage, beginning at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific.
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