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British Hostage Murdered in Iraq; Up to 30 Dead in Egypt Bombing; Bush, Kerry to Square Off in St. Louis

Aired October 08, 2004 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Terror at Taba. Is al Qaeda behind the bombings in Egypt, and why would bin Laden's group go after targets in that country?
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Meet me in St. Louis. There's another presidential debate tonight, in case you hadn't heard. What should we be looking for?

PHILLIPS: Welcome to Camp Cupcake. She wanted to start putting her nightmare behind her. This morning, Martha Stewart got her wish.

O'BRIEN: And just when we thought we had figured out how to eat just right, the sushi hits the fan. Are you eating toxic tuna?

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Today is Friday, October 8. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: Moammar Gadhafi and Yasser Arafat, the governments of Britain and Ireland, Muslim and western clerics and, of course, Ken Bigley's own family pleaded with Bigley's Iraqi kidnappers to free him unharmed. We now know they pleaded in vain.

Twenty-two days after the British engineer was taken hostage along with two American colleagues there's grim evidence that he met the same fate as they. We get the very latest from CNN's Brent Sadler, joining us now live from Baghdad -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Miles.

The family of Kenneth Bigley in Liverpool a short time ago confirmed that they had seen visual proof convincing them that after 22 days of a terrifying ordeal for the family that Ken Bigley is dead.

The British foreign secretary Jack Straw said it was a barbaric murder after three weeks of terrible suffering for Mr. Bigley.

What we know is that the captors sent out a video to an Arabic news network, a video that showed the beheading of a man identified at the time by the Reuters news agency as Ken Bigley. It took several hours for the family to come out with that statement in the United Kingdom, confirming the death of Mr. Bigley.

He was, of course, one of three contractors taken captive here in Iraq 22 days ago, along with two Americans, Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong. Both the Americans were killed within one week of their capture. In the past two weeks, Mr. Bigley's fate had been hanging in the balance.

Certainly there had been a lot of support in the United Kingdom. There had been many groups trying to build up international pressure to try and somehow convince the hostage takers, believed to be supporters of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the top terror suspect in Iraq, to let him go.

Now, there had been two videotapes released of Mr. Bigley, one of them showing him pleading for Mr. Blair, the British prime minister, to do something to help set him free.

The most recent one showed Mr. Bigley in a cage, handcuffed again. He was trying to put pressure, under duress, on the British government to negotiate with the kidnappers, something that the British authorities and Iraq's interim government refused to do.

Since then, there have been attempts at various levels. Yasser Arafat, the president of the Palestinian Authority, also the son of Moammar Gadhafi, the Libya leader, Saif Islam Gadhafi, also getting involved, as were Muslim, Islamic leaders from Britain who came here.

Leaflets were put out throughout various parts of Iraq, appealing for help in finding Ken Bigley. All that in the end came to no avail.

Perhaps, Miles, my final comment really is listen to closely to what Mr. Bigley's brother said in that statement a short time ago. He said, quote, "Perhaps from day one the fate of his brother was sealed."

O'BRIEN: Those are words to remember, Brent.

What do we know about whether there was any sort of bone fide communication established? Was any of these intermediaries that actually got through to this terrorist organization, or was the negotiation done through the media, essentially?

SADLER: I think you're right. What we saw were videotapes or postings on the Internet.

The British government, Jack Straw was here just a couple days I go. And he made a statement saying if the kidnappers want to contact the British authorities that they can do it. There will be no negotiations, but they could contact them. There was no confirmation of that happening.

There was no confirmation from anybody involved in this that anyone had had direct contact with those holding Mr. Bigley. Those people, the group supporting Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. And it was Zarqawi's network in Fallujah that was being heavily attacked by U.S. warplanes less than 25 -- 24 hours ago.

The latest air strike in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, killing, according to doctors in that city, some 14 people, those taking part in a wedding party. Several hours after that, news started to emerge that Ken Bigley had been beheaded.

O'BRIEN: Brent, is there any reason to believe that al-Zarqawi was actually present there for Bigley's murder? We've seen -- had reason to believe that in the past he actually did the deed.

SADLER: What we do know is what we've seen on the video. Very little information comes out beyond that. And that is that the group supporting Abu Musab Zarqawi -- there was a group of five shown on the videotape -- one of those men came forward and beheaded, decapitated Mr. Bigley in much the same way that we've seen things happen before. So, no, nothing beyond that -- Kyra.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Brent Sadler in Baghdad. Thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, at least 29 people are dead in bomb attacks on a major hotel and two campsites on the Sinai Peninsula, the victims primarily vacationing Israelis, the perpetrators unknown, but three groups are claiming responsibility. Al Qaeda tops the list of suspects.

CNN's Ben Wedeman now has the latest from that resort city, Taba.

What can you tell us, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, while there's still work going on in the hotel behind me, we've seen Israeli rescue workers working alongside Egyptian rescue workers throughout the day, trying to sift through the rubble. And the rubble is very deep, indeed.

What happened was a car bomb went off at about 10 p.m. local time last night, that car bomb apparently containing at least 220 pounds of high explosives. It ripped the facade off the building and the blast tore through the lobby.

At the time there were apparently lots of families, lots of children inside. There was a music show going on. And causing lots of casualties, many dead. We're hearing numbers anywhere between 20 and 30 at this point.

Now, I spoke to several guests, several Israeli guests in the hotel. And they told me stories of panic, of the lights going off, people returning around, not knowing what to do, where to go.

There were problems with getting Israeli ambulances over the border. Some blue -- red tape that had to be cut through. It appears now that things have smoothed out.

But as I said earlier, really the focus of the efforts today has been on trying to find out -- find survivors. There haven't been many of those. We saw as Israeli and Egyptian rescue crews dug out a body, what appeared to be a child -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's tough pictures to see, Ben. What about the rest of the vacationers there at the resort? Where have they gone? What have they been asked to do? And also, do you know if any Americans were staying at that hotel?

WEDNESDAY: Well, I do know that there were many, many Israelis. A precise number we don't have. I've heard from some Israeli sources as many as 15,000 tourists were -- Israeli tourists were in the eastern Sinai, which is very popular with the Israelis.

And they, as soon as the news of this attack spread, they launched a mass exodus towards the border. I saw taxi full after taxi full of tourists going to the border and crossing over.

Now, as far as Americans among the guests at the hotel behind me, we don't have precise information. I do know -- I can tell you that representatives of the U.S. embassy came here to investigate to see if there were any Americans among them. But no hard and fast information, if there were Americans among the guests or among the victims -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: CNN's Ben Wedeman, the latest there from Taba. Thank you so much.

And in the next hour we're going to talk with terrorist expert Peter Bergen, who's actually just recently written an article today about al Qaeda and its involvement most likely in those bombings -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Back now to our top story: the murder of the hostage. Let's go to the Bigley family of Liverpool, England: terrified by the capture in Iraq of their brother, son and father, grief-stricken today by his grizzly death.

Here is CNN's Diana Muriel with more on that -- Diana.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, you join me outside the home of Lil Bigley. That's Kenneth Bigley's mother.

And here in Liverpool, the local community is trying to get to grips with the realization that Ken Bigley has, in fact, been killed by his captors after a three-week captivity in Iraq.

The shock is palpable. People just can't believe that this has happened. His two brothers, Stan Bigley and Phil Bigley, gave a conference a little less than half an hour ago here in Liverpool, and this is what Phil Bigley had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL BIGLEY, KEN BIGLEY'S BROTHER: The family here in Liverpool believe that our government did everything it possibly could to secure the release of Ken in this impossible situation.

It could be that the fate of Ken, Eugene and Jack was sealed from day one. We will never know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Of course, Jack and Eugene were the two American colleagues of Ken Bigley. They were also taken captive that fateful Thursday three weeks ago in Baghdad. They were executed by their captors on the Monday and the Tuesday following it.

It had been widely thought that Ken Bigley would be a victim on that Wednesday. That didn't happen. We saw videotape released in Iraq of Ken Bigley, released on a web site of him pleading for his life.

Negotiations have been going on ever since he was taken captive. And there had been, even as recently as yesterday, some indication that there may have been progress in that negotiation.

But incontrovertible proof coming this Friday that Ken Bigley has, indeed, been killed by his captors in Iraq.

The people of Liverpool in shock. There's going to be a mass rally taking place in central town later on this evening. It's being considered here as an opportunity for the people of this community to come together and to show their grief and to mourn for a son of their city -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Diana, can you give us a brief sense of the broader reaction all throughout the United Kingdom to this?

MURIEL: Indeed. Around the world, people have been following this story over the past three weeks.

In that time, of course, we had the release of the two Italian aide workers, the two Simonas who were released from Iraq by their captors. And that had increased this idea that possibly Ken Bigley would be successful in winning his release from his captors.

The news has been breaking over the past few hours. It broke here in the U.K. around lunchtime today, but it has only taken until quite recently, in the last two hours for it to be confirmed that, indeed, Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, in London has just given a statement where he has condemned the actions of these -- of the captors, condemned utterly their barbaric treatment of Ken Bigley and his murder.

So the shock is still -- is still around the world. People are still coming to grips with what this might mean and what it might mean, indeed, for the other hostages who are still captive in Iraq -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Diana Muriel in Liverpool, thank you very much.

Terrorism will, of course, will grist for tonight's presidential debate. And today on our program, CNN terrorism analyst Peter -- Peter Bergen, I should say, will join us live from Afghanistan to talk about bin Laden, al Qaeda, the bombings yesterday in Egypt, the situation with the hostage-taking.

What strategic goal could those bombings have, among other things?

From $900,000 a year to less than 50 cents an hour, Martha Stewart starts her living in jail.

And the world has a new tallest building, 1,700 feet with elevators that go from 0 to the 89th floor in less than 40 seconds. Better be ready to pop your ear on that one. Do you know where it is? Find out after a break.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, since they last met the polls are tighter, the stump speeches sharper and election day, eight days closer.

Tonight George W. Bush, John Kerry hold their second of three face-to-face debates, this time at Washington University in St. Louis. The fury in Missouri. Town hall style forum. That's what we're calling it at least.

CNN's Judy Woodruff is in St. Louis to tell us about who's in the audience, the questions and a little bit about the rules.

Judy, good to see you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Nothing rhymes with St. Louis, is that it?

O'BRIEN: That's it. That's basically what it boils down to. Anyway, have a few brouhahas in St. Louis. Anyway, that's another story.

Let's talk about who's in the audience, first of all. A familiar face to CNN viewers, Frank Newport of the Gallup organization was involved in selecting folks. Who's out there and who's going to be make -- posing these questions?

Reporter: Well, Miles, we don't have the names. But what we are told is this is 100 to 150 people who the Gallup organization identified as either uncommitted, and Gallup is saying there aren't too many of those truly uncommitted people.

And the rest of them are supposed to be pretty evenly divided between soft Bush supporters and soft Kerry supporters.

So we're going to see a mix of people who truly can't make up their mind at all and some people who are leaning one way or the other.

But Miles, you need to know that out of that 100 to 150, only about 20 of those people max, apparently, are going to be able to ask questions. They're going to be seated, we gather, closer to the candidates, and they will be the ones who will be called on by the moderator, Charlie Gibson.

O'BRIEN: All right. So in other words, these people, the 150 have already kind of submitted their questions. They're going through the questions, deciding which are appropriate. And then those people -- so it's not exactly a freewheeling kind of town hall in that sense?

WOODRUFF: Not at all. In fact, seven days -- this very detailed agreement that the campaigns worked out, seven days before this debate, Charlie Gibson was to have submitted to the campaigns his plan for how he was going to pick questions.

We have no way of knowing if that's happened. We're not getting that level of detail from the commission.

But you're right, it's not spontaneous. These people were to submit their question in advance. And it's up to Mr. Gibson, who we know is a great journalist, to come up with the most important questions, the most probing questions, the questions that are going to get at what we haven't heard in this campaign.

O'BRIEN: And just to be clear so our audience understands, though. The candidates don't know these questions right now, correct?

WOODRUFF: They do not.

O'BRIEN: OK.

WOODRUFF: The candidates -- even the commission, even the debate commission doesn't know. It's only Gibson, Charlie Gibson and, of course, the individuals.

O'BRIEN: And he's beyond reproach, as we know, as a journalist.

Let's talk about just the rules, the timing, the red light, green light, yellow light deal. Is it all pretty much the same as we've seen?

WOODRUFF: Well, other than the fact, Miles, that the candidates will be in stationary positions. And they will be able to move around, but they've decided, apparently, that it's a limited area.

We -- you can see from the -- from this -- the video we have of the place where the debate is taking place, but there is a limited area the candidates will be able to move. They won't be able to get right up in one another's face, but they'll be able to walk around, get a little closer to the audience.

But Miles, the question and answer format is exactly the same as the other debates. Two minutes to answer the question. The other guy has a minute and a half to rebut. And then at the moderator's discretion, there's another 30 seconds for each candidate to extend the conversation.

But, no, it's very, very strict. But it's going to be up to Charlie Gibson to loosen it up. And I expect that he may try to do that.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that will be interesting to see. I'm sure he'll get a few words in there and allow the debate to breathe a little bit.

Judy Woodruff, we're -- we're anxious to see you tonight. We're anxious to see you report about it a little bit later.

She'll be there for the duration in the town that doesn't rhyme with anything, St. Louis. The Fury of Missouri, CNN's live coverage of the presidential debates begins at 7 Eastern, 6 in St. Louis -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now.

Nobel goes green. Environmentalists from Kenya receives the Nobel Peace Prize. Wangari Maathai heads the Green Belt Movement dedicated to saving Africa's shrinking forests. Well, she's the first African woman to receive that honor.

Environmentalists aren't happy about this. A load of weapons grade plutonium crossed the ocean then crossed France by road. And it's on its way to a processing plant. It made it safely but activist groups, mainly Greenpeace, feared the shipment was transported irresponsibly.

This thing casts quite a shadow, a 101-story skyscraper in Taipei, Taiwan, is now officially the world's tallest building. It's 1,700 feet tall, has one of the world's fastest elevators, too. Ground floor to the 89th floor in 40 seconds. That height of the antennas on top, well, that doesn't count. Chicago's Sears Tower still rules in that department.

Rhonda Schaffler up next with the latest job report. The markers of -- or makers, rather, of Remicade offer a warning. Could the remedy be worse than what ails you?

Flip-flopping and politics. This time not the candidates but the states. We're going to talk about it.

And where are with new battlegrounds in the presidential race?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, a big disappointment in the month's job report. Rhonda Schaffler joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with a look at what it means for the economy and the election.

Hi, Rhonda.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Rhonda, thanks so much.

And don't forget, CNN's coverage of the second presidential debate begins tonight at 7 Eastern with Anderson Cooper. Then at 8, Paula Zahn takes over, followed by a special pre-debate show with Wolf Blitzer at 8:30. He's going to take us up to the debate scheduled to begin at 9 Eastern.

More LIVE FROM straight ahead. Don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired October 8, 2004 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Terror at Taba. Is al Qaeda behind the bombings in Egypt, and why would bin Laden's group go after targets in that country?
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Meet me in St. Louis. There's another presidential debate tonight, in case you hadn't heard. What should we be looking for?

PHILLIPS: Welcome to Camp Cupcake. She wanted to start putting her nightmare behind her. This morning, Martha Stewart got her wish.

O'BRIEN: And just when we thought we had figured out how to eat just right, the sushi hits the fan. Are you eating toxic tuna?

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. Today is Friday, October 8. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: Moammar Gadhafi and Yasser Arafat, the governments of Britain and Ireland, Muslim and western clerics and, of course, Ken Bigley's own family pleaded with Bigley's Iraqi kidnappers to free him unharmed. We now know they pleaded in vain.

Twenty-two days after the British engineer was taken hostage along with two American colleagues there's grim evidence that he met the same fate as they. We get the very latest from CNN's Brent Sadler, joining us now live from Baghdad -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Miles.

The family of Kenneth Bigley in Liverpool a short time ago confirmed that they had seen visual proof convincing them that after 22 days of a terrifying ordeal for the family that Ken Bigley is dead.

The British foreign secretary Jack Straw said it was a barbaric murder after three weeks of terrible suffering for Mr. Bigley.

What we know is that the captors sent out a video to an Arabic news network, a video that showed the beheading of a man identified at the time by the Reuters news agency as Ken Bigley. It took several hours for the family to come out with that statement in the United Kingdom, confirming the death of Mr. Bigley.

He was, of course, one of three contractors taken captive here in Iraq 22 days ago, along with two Americans, Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong. Both the Americans were killed within one week of their capture. In the past two weeks, Mr. Bigley's fate had been hanging in the balance.

Certainly there had been a lot of support in the United Kingdom. There had been many groups trying to build up international pressure to try and somehow convince the hostage takers, believed to be supporters of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the top terror suspect in Iraq, to let him go.

Now, there had been two videotapes released of Mr. Bigley, one of them showing him pleading for Mr. Blair, the British prime minister, to do something to help set him free.

The most recent one showed Mr. Bigley in a cage, handcuffed again. He was trying to put pressure, under duress, on the British government to negotiate with the kidnappers, something that the British authorities and Iraq's interim government refused to do.

Since then, there have been attempts at various levels. Yasser Arafat, the president of the Palestinian Authority, also the son of Moammar Gadhafi, the Libya leader, Saif Islam Gadhafi, also getting involved, as were Muslim, Islamic leaders from Britain who came here.

Leaflets were put out throughout various parts of Iraq, appealing for help in finding Ken Bigley. All that in the end came to no avail.

Perhaps, Miles, my final comment really is listen to closely to what Mr. Bigley's brother said in that statement a short time ago. He said, quote, "Perhaps from day one the fate of his brother was sealed."

O'BRIEN: Those are words to remember, Brent.

What do we know about whether there was any sort of bone fide communication established? Was any of these intermediaries that actually got through to this terrorist organization, or was the negotiation done through the media, essentially?

SADLER: I think you're right. What we saw were videotapes or postings on the Internet.

The British government, Jack Straw was here just a couple days I go. And he made a statement saying if the kidnappers want to contact the British authorities that they can do it. There will be no negotiations, but they could contact them. There was no confirmation of that happening.

There was no confirmation from anybody involved in this that anyone had had direct contact with those holding Mr. Bigley. Those people, the group supporting Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. And it was Zarqawi's network in Fallujah that was being heavily attacked by U.S. warplanes less than 25 -- 24 hours ago.

The latest air strike in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, killing, according to doctors in that city, some 14 people, those taking part in a wedding party. Several hours after that, news started to emerge that Ken Bigley had been beheaded.

O'BRIEN: Brent, is there any reason to believe that al-Zarqawi was actually present there for Bigley's murder? We've seen -- had reason to believe that in the past he actually did the deed.

SADLER: What we do know is what we've seen on the video. Very little information comes out beyond that. And that is that the group supporting Abu Musab Zarqawi -- there was a group of five shown on the videotape -- one of those men came forward and beheaded, decapitated Mr. Bigley in much the same way that we've seen things happen before. So, no, nothing beyond that -- Kyra.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Brent Sadler in Baghdad. Thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, at least 29 people are dead in bomb attacks on a major hotel and two campsites on the Sinai Peninsula, the victims primarily vacationing Israelis, the perpetrators unknown, but three groups are claiming responsibility. Al Qaeda tops the list of suspects.

CNN's Ben Wedeman now has the latest from that resort city, Taba.

What can you tell us, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, while there's still work going on in the hotel behind me, we've seen Israeli rescue workers working alongside Egyptian rescue workers throughout the day, trying to sift through the rubble. And the rubble is very deep, indeed.

What happened was a car bomb went off at about 10 p.m. local time last night, that car bomb apparently containing at least 220 pounds of high explosives. It ripped the facade off the building and the blast tore through the lobby.

At the time there were apparently lots of families, lots of children inside. There was a music show going on. And causing lots of casualties, many dead. We're hearing numbers anywhere between 20 and 30 at this point.

Now, I spoke to several guests, several Israeli guests in the hotel. And they told me stories of panic, of the lights going off, people returning around, not knowing what to do, where to go.

There were problems with getting Israeli ambulances over the border. Some blue -- red tape that had to be cut through. It appears now that things have smoothed out.

But as I said earlier, really the focus of the efforts today has been on trying to find out -- find survivors. There haven't been many of those. We saw as Israeli and Egyptian rescue crews dug out a body, what appeared to be a child -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's tough pictures to see, Ben. What about the rest of the vacationers there at the resort? Where have they gone? What have they been asked to do? And also, do you know if any Americans were staying at that hotel?

WEDNESDAY: Well, I do know that there were many, many Israelis. A precise number we don't have. I've heard from some Israeli sources as many as 15,000 tourists were -- Israeli tourists were in the eastern Sinai, which is very popular with the Israelis.

And they, as soon as the news of this attack spread, they launched a mass exodus towards the border. I saw taxi full after taxi full of tourists going to the border and crossing over.

Now, as far as Americans among the guests at the hotel behind me, we don't have precise information. I do know -- I can tell you that representatives of the U.S. embassy came here to investigate to see if there were any Americans among them. But no hard and fast information, if there were Americans among the guests or among the victims -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: CNN's Ben Wedeman, the latest there from Taba. Thank you so much.

And in the next hour we're going to talk with terrorist expert Peter Bergen, who's actually just recently written an article today about al Qaeda and its involvement most likely in those bombings -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Back now to our top story: the murder of the hostage. Let's go to the Bigley family of Liverpool, England: terrified by the capture in Iraq of their brother, son and father, grief-stricken today by his grizzly death.

Here is CNN's Diana Muriel with more on that -- Diana.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, you join me outside the home of Lil Bigley. That's Kenneth Bigley's mother.

And here in Liverpool, the local community is trying to get to grips with the realization that Ken Bigley has, in fact, been killed by his captors after a three-week captivity in Iraq.

The shock is palpable. People just can't believe that this has happened. His two brothers, Stan Bigley and Phil Bigley, gave a conference a little less than half an hour ago here in Liverpool, and this is what Phil Bigley had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL BIGLEY, KEN BIGLEY'S BROTHER: The family here in Liverpool believe that our government did everything it possibly could to secure the release of Ken in this impossible situation.

It could be that the fate of Ken, Eugene and Jack was sealed from day one. We will never know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Of course, Jack and Eugene were the two American colleagues of Ken Bigley. They were also taken captive that fateful Thursday three weeks ago in Baghdad. They were executed by their captors on the Monday and the Tuesday following it.

It had been widely thought that Ken Bigley would be a victim on that Wednesday. That didn't happen. We saw videotape released in Iraq of Ken Bigley, released on a web site of him pleading for his life.

Negotiations have been going on ever since he was taken captive. And there had been, even as recently as yesterday, some indication that there may have been progress in that negotiation.

But incontrovertible proof coming this Friday that Ken Bigley has, indeed, been killed by his captors in Iraq.

The people of Liverpool in shock. There's going to be a mass rally taking place in central town later on this evening. It's being considered here as an opportunity for the people of this community to come together and to show their grief and to mourn for a son of their city -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Diana, can you give us a brief sense of the broader reaction all throughout the United Kingdom to this?

MURIEL: Indeed. Around the world, people have been following this story over the past three weeks.

In that time, of course, we had the release of the two Italian aide workers, the two Simonas who were released from Iraq by their captors. And that had increased this idea that possibly Ken Bigley would be successful in winning his release from his captors.

The news has been breaking over the past few hours. It broke here in the U.K. around lunchtime today, but it has only taken until quite recently, in the last two hours for it to be confirmed that, indeed, Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, in London has just given a statement where he has condemned the actions of these -- of the captors, condemned utterly their barbaric treatment of Ken Bigley and his murder.

So the shock is still -- is still around the world. People are still coming to grips with what this might mean and what it might mean, indeed, for the other hostages who are still captive in Iraq -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Diana Muriel in Liverpool, thank you very much.

Terrorism will, of course, will grist for tonight's presidential debate. And today on our program, CNN terrorism analyst Peter -- Peter Bergen, I should say, will join us live from Afghanistan to talk about bin Laden, al Qaeda, the bombings yesterday in Egypt, the situation with the hostage-taking.

What strategic goal could those bombings have, among other things?

From $900,000 a year to less than 50 cents an hour, Martha Stewart starts her living in jail.

And the world has a new tallest building, 1,700 feet with elevators that go from 0 to the 89th floor in less than 40 seconds. Better be ready to pop your ear on that one. Do you know where it is? Find out after a break.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, since they last met the polls are tighter, the stump speeches sharper and election day, eight days closer.

Tonight George W. Bush, John Kerry hold their second of three face-to-face debates, this time at Washington University in St. Louis. The fury in Missouri. Town hall style forum. That's what we're calling it at least.

CNN's Judy Woodruff is in St. Louis to tell us about who's in the audience, the questions and a little bit about the rules.

Judy, good to see you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Nothing rhymes with St. Louis, is that it?

O'BRIEN: That's it. That's basically what it boils down to. Anyway, have a few brouhahas in St. Louis. Anyway, that's another story.

Let's talk about who's in the audience, first of all. A familiar face to CNN viewers, Frank Newport of the Gallup organization was involved in selecting folks. Who's out there and who's going to be make -- posing these questions?

Reporter: Well, Miles, we don't have the names. But what we are told is this is 100 to 150 people who the Gallup organization identified as either uncommitted, and Gallup is saying there aren't too many of those truly uncommitted people.

And the rest of them are supposed to be pretty evenly divided between soft Bush supporters and soft Kerry supporters.

So we're going to see a mix of people who truly can't make up their mind at all and some people who are leaning one way or the other.

But Miles, you need to know that out of that 100 to 150, only about 20 of those people max, apparently, are going to be able to ask questions. They're going to be seated, we gather, closer to the candidates, and they will be the ones who will be called on by the moderator, Charlie Gibson.

O'BRIEN: All right. So in other words, these people, the 150 have already kind of submitted their questions. They're going through the questions, deciding which are appropriate. And then those people -- so it's not exactly a freewheeling kind of town hall in that sense?

WOODRUFF: Not at all. In fact, seven days -- this very detailed agreement that the campaigns worked out, seven days before this debate, Charlie Gibson was to have submitted to the campaigns his plan for how he was going to pick questions.

We have no way of knowing if that's happened. We're not getting that level of detail from the commission.

But you're right, it's not spontaneous. These people were to submit their question in advance. And it's up to Mr. Gibson, who we know is a great journalist, to come up with the most important questions, the most probing questions, the questions that are going to get at what we haven't heard in this campaign.

O'BRIEN: And just to be clear so our audience understands, though. The candidates don't know these questions right now, correct?

WOODRUFF: They do not.

O'BRIEN: OK.

WOODRUFF: The candidates -- even the commission, even the debate commission doesn't know. It's only Gibson, Charlie Gibson and, of course, the individuals.

O'BRIEN: And he's beyond reproach, as we know, as a journalist.

Let's talk about just the rules, the timing, the red light, green light, yellow light deal. Is it all pretty much the same as we've seen?

WOODRUFF: Well, other than the fact, Miles, that the candidates will be in stationary positions. And they will be able to move around, but they've decided, apparently, that it's a limited area.

We -- you can see from the -- from this -- the video we have of the place where the debate is taking place, but there is a limited area the candidates will be able to move. They won't be able to get right up in one another's face, but they'll be able to walk around, get a little closer to the audience.

But Miles, the question and answer format is exactly the same as the other debates. Two minutes to answer the question. The other guy has a minute and a half to rebut. And then at the moderator's discretion, there's another 30 seconds for each candidate to extend the conversation.

But, no, it's very, very strict. But it's going to be up to Charlie Gibson to loosen it up. And I expect that he may try to do that.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that will be interesting to see. I'm sure he'll get a few words in there and allow the debate to breathe a little bit.

Judy Woodruff, we're -- we're anxious to see you tonight. We're anxious to see you report about it a little bit later.

She'll be there for the duration in the town that doesn't rhyme with anything, St. Louis. The Fury of Missouri, CNN's live coverage of the presidential debates begins at 7 Eastern, 6 in St. Louis -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now.

Nobel goes green. Environmentalists from Kenya receives the Nobel Peace Prize. Wangari Maathai heads the Green Belt Movement dedicated to saving Africa's shrinking forests. Well, she's the first African woman to receive that honor.

Environmentalists aren't happy about this. A load of weapons grade plutonium crossed the ocean then crossed France by road. And it's on its way to a processing plant. It made it safely but activist groups, mainly Greenpeace, feared the shipment was transported irresponsibly.

This thing casts quite a shadow, a 101-story skyscraper in Taipei, Taiwan, is now officially the world's tallest building. It's 1,700 feet tall, has one of the world's fastest elevators, too. Ground floor to the 89th floor in 40 seconds. That height of the antennas on top, well, that doesn't count. Chicago's Sears Tower still rules in that department.

Rhonda Schaffler up next with the latest job report. The markers of -- or makers, rather, of Remicade offer a warning. Could the remedy be worse than what ails you?

Flip-flopping and politics. This time not the candidates but the states. We're going to talk about it.

And where are with new battlegrounds in the presidential race?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, a big disappointment in the month's job report. Rhonda Schaffler joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with a look at what it means for the economy and the election.

Hi, Rhonda.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Rhonda, thanks so much.

And don't forget, CNN's coverage of the second presidential debate begins tonight at 7 Eastern with Anderson Cooper. Then at 8, Paula Zahn takes over, followed by a special pre-debate show with Wolf Blitzer at 8:30. He's going to take us up to the debate scheduled to begin at 9 Eastern.

More LIVE FROM straight ahead. Don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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