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Third and Final Presidential Debate Tonight in Arizona; In Beslan, Russia, 40-day Mourning Period for Victims of Deadly School Siege is Over

Aired October 13, 2004 - 13:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Stories now in the news. Who would have guessed? The 9/11 Commission's final report is up for a national book award. It's one of the five finalists in the nonfiction category. It's an interesting selection, since most government reports are considered rather dry.
Baby news for Army Private Lynndie England. The 21-year-old Reservist gave birth on Sunday. "The Baltimore Sun" reports it's a boy. England faces court-martial in January, on charges of abusing prisoners at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison.

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in a case re-examining the death penalty. At issue, should convicted killers who are 16 and 17 be treated as adults in death penalty cases? Nineteen states allow such executions. At least 70 juvenile murderers now sit on death row.

Mount St. Helens putting on another magnificent show. A plume of steam seen rising from the volcano today. Scientists say magma broke through the surface of the volcano yesterday and it's slowly building a new lava dome.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as any political pro will tell you, debates are all about expectations. And the tried and true tactic is to lower the bar for your candidate in advance of a face-to- face encounter, thus making it easier for the spinners to spin once the dust settles.

But the Kerry campaign seems to be ignoring that old saw, as they prepare to go toe to toe in Tempe. Is the bar now set too high for the senator? We pose that question to Democratic consultant Morris Reid, joining us from Los Angeles.

Morris, good to have you with us.

MORRIS REID, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Miles, how are you?

O'BRIEN: I am well, thank you. Let's get right to it. We have a brief interview, an excerpt of an interview, from one of the communications directors of Bush/Cheney '04, Nicole Devenish. Let's just listen to this for a moment, and then I want to get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE DEVENISH, BUSH-CHENEY COMM. DIR.: The Kerry campaign has reminded me of a peacock over the last 10 days. They're very interested in admiring their feathers and really talking up their performance in the debates, but Americans are looking for a leader, and there's only one person in the race who has led on the issue of health care, who has added a prescription drug benefit to Medicare. There's only one candidate in the race who has led for America's small business owners who, as you know, create most of the jobs in America, and there's only one can't in the race who can protect Americans from John Kerry's promised tax hike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right, that's Nicole Devenish, from the Bush-Cheney war room. Let's talk about that first point there, before she got into the specific issues, this notion that the campaign is, metaphorically at least, a peacock right now.

REID: Well, I don't agree with that. I think that they feel pretty good about the two debates. Conversely, the Republicans don't feel that great about George Bush's debate performance thus far. In fact, if they did, they would be out beating their chest as well. One thing I would point out, though, Miles, is that tactically, I believe that this was the first mistake that I really believe the Republicans have made.

O'BRIEN: What was?

REID: With the debate -- the way the debate sequences are. They started with the foreign policy and ending with domestic policy. Now domestic policy is not really his strong suit, the foreign is. So as things have now gone to a lull, and he's really behind, and people feel he's lost the first two, this is not necessarily the strongest foot they want to be on right now. I understand why they did it. They really wanted the knockout punch on the front end, but I believe tactically this is going to come back to bite them in the butt.

O'BRIEN: That's interesting. We could go back and forth all day, as to which is the more important debate, the first or last. That would be an interesting one. Let's -- I want to get some poll numbers in front of you for just a moment here. This is part of our CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, just came out, questions asked October 9th and 10th. This is interesting one. The question is, who is more believable? Kerry has a big gap here, a believability gap. Why is that, and what can he do about it, Morris?

REID: Well, think that he just has to present himself in the best possible light. One of the things about George Bush, is whether you like his policies or not, he's a guy that sort of -- you saw him, he has that little swagger, he goes to dinner without a coat and tie; he's a regular Joe.

And I that what John Kerry really needs to do is just present himself in the most comfortable manner. But I also believe this is where he could really have his daughters and his stepsons to really step up, his children, to really present him in a very comfortable light. I just think that George Bush -- just, he presents better. He's a guy that, you know, you can sit across table and have a beer with. That doesn't necessarily mean you want him for the president at this point in time and...

O'BRIEN: Historically, guy you want to have I beer with tends to do well. Whether you like it or not, there's a certain amount of that popularity factor, that comfortability, whatever you want to call it, that people factor into their voting.

Next numbers I want to talk with you about here, same poll, October 9th and 10th the questions. Who is more likely to keep his campaign promises was the question. And once again, Kerry has a gap here. People don't trust him, for whatever reason. Why?

REID: I think that the flip-flop issue really has stuck here with Kerry. He hasn't been able to really articulate to the people that, I am not flip-flopping, I'm getting more information and I'm able to really, then, process those thing.

George Bush has really been focused on three thing, and that's all he's talked about, terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, where John Kerry's tried to talk about a lot of different thing. It's just a style, campaign style. And sometimes you really shouldn't try to bite off more than you can chew, and the Republicans have been very good about staying on that one core message, whereas John Kerry has been all over the place, and trying to have an answer for every one in a lot of cases.

O'BRIEN: All right, final thought here. What do you anticipate tonight? My gut tells me we're going to see kind of a conservative type of night, a rope-a-dope night. Do you see something else happening?

REID: I think it will be very aggressive.

O'BRIEN: Really?

REID: Yes, I do. I think it's very important. When you mentioned about the first or last debate, which being the most important, the first is always the most important, because more people watch. However, in a very close race, every debate is more important. It was 60, 42. I believe you're going to see about 40 million people watching this time, which will be more than you saw in 2000 altogether. So I think they'll be both very aggressive.

This is a race, as I've always predicted, that will come down to the last 15 days. This is not about converting the people that are already with you. It's about identifying those people that are on the fence, motivating them to get to the poll on behalf of your candidate. It's going to be very tight. This debate tonight is very critical for both candidates.

O'BRIEN: But who remembers that Richard Nixon aced that last debate against Kennedy in the 1960s, it's just worth thinking about.

REID: Well, I wasn't around then, but they didn't have CNN to bring all the good information to the people.

O'BRIEN: Well, there you go, that was the problem, there wasn't enough CNN.

REID: That was the problem.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, always a pleasure, come back anytime -- Kyra.

REID: Thanks, Miles. Thanks so much.

PHILLIPS: Hoping to avoid any snafus that could jeopardize ballots cast by Servicemen and women overseas, troops are getting absentee voter booklets and are being assigned officers to help answer any questions they might have. In the last election, problems like lack of postmarks or signatures meant hundred of ballots from troops abroad were just thrown out.

Well, remember the election 2000 debacle in Florida, hanging chads, dimples, manual recounts? Florida election officials now say a problem discovered yesterday holds the sign of things to come. A check of electronic voting machines Palm Beach County was postponed after the computer server crashed. It will now take place Friday. Florida's election supervisor assures that the problem won't affect voting come Election Day.

Other news around the world, speaking of palm beach, Afghanistan looks a little like Florida, circa 2000. It's been four days since elections, and they've yet to count a single vote. At least 43 complaints have been filed so far. The deadline's extended until tomorrow. And officials have to review all of them before they can start to tally the ballots. Many of the gripes center on ink used to mark voter's thumbs in some polling stations. That ink could be rubbed off, allowing some people to vote more than once.

And is Germany softening on the issue of sending troops to Iraq? The NATO conference today in Romania, Germany's defense minister says that his country can't rule out getting involved in Iraq years from now. Germany, which opposed the war and troop engagements, is now involved in security training for Iraqi forces.

O'BRIEN: In Beslan, Russia, the 40-day mourning period for victims of the deadly school siege is over. Many people returned to the school yesterday in hopes of moving on, but the visit proved much too difficult for many survivors.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They walked the school corridors, studied the bullet holes in the walls, find notebooks left behind from that awful day 40 days ago.

"We came here because we thought we could still see them," Marina tells me. "We don't believe they died. We think they're still here."

Twelve-year-old David recalls one particular group of victims. He manages only six words -- "The Tumbayos (ph)," he says, "one family, six people."

At the cemetery, a ceremony marks the end of 40 days of mourning. Most people here are Orthodox Christians who believe the soul rises to heaven on the 40th day.

(on camera): In a spiritual sense, the people of Beslan are saying goodbye to more than 300 people killed in the hostage crisis -- more than half of them just children.

(voice-over): There are crosses over most graves, with just a stick at 12-year-old Emma's. Her parents are Muslim. For two-year- old Christina, a doll still in its packaging.

Muslim rebels have claimed responsibility for the Beslan attack. Amidst calls for revenge, many of the mothers here struggle to understand the killers.

"How could you raise your hand against children," she asks a crowd around her daughter's grave. "Those killers weren't brought up on their mother's milk; they were brought up on bombs."

After 40 days, Beslan is still in shock.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Beslan, Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We're used to seeing Elton John in front of a camera. But it turns out that Sir Elton not only has a flair for creating spectacles, he's also got an appreciative eye for the vision of others.

Over the years, he has amassed a photography collection that ranks as one of the world's best. But now he's parting with some of his prized works, including this piece by Robert Mapplethorpe, "Calla Lily." Elton says he had a strong desire for beautiful surroundings after becoming sober. And "The Tetons and the Snake River," taken by the legendary Ansel Adams, and this incredible collage by Harry Callahan from the late 1950s.

Jane Jackson is Elton John's own curator. She's joining us now from our New York Bureau to talk about an auction tomorrow at Christie's that's truly a connoisseur's kind of yard sale. Hi, Jane.

JANE JACKSON, SIR ELTON JOHN PHOTO COLLECTION: Hi, how are you, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Well, I have a question. I know he has so many of these photographs -- why is he wanting to auction a number of them off?

JACKSON: Well, I started working for Elton a year-and-a-half ago, and we took a broad approach of looking at the collection, cataloging it, and then seeing areas where we needed to add to the collection, as well as areas where we had, really, too much of certain things.

So, in some respects, this is a way that we're actually pruning the collection. In the future, we'll be diversifying it more. So, with the instance of the Mapplethorpes and Michael Kennas and John Dugdales and Irving Penns, those are all artists that he has collected in depth over the years -- and actually has, you know, in some cases over 100 photographs by those particular artists.

So, we're parting only with a few things.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's get more in depth on his relationship with some of these artists, also. Let's start with the picture of Elton with a fan -- or a bouquet, rather, from a fan. Tell us about this.

JACKSON: That is by Norman Parkinson, who was a very famous fashion photographer in -- based in England. And this was early on in Elton's career. And obviously, this is right after he was becoming extremely famous. And Norman spent a whole day shooting Elton, and that was a published image at the time.

PHILLIPS: Does he even remember the fan that gave him the bouquet?

JACKSON: No, I don't think so.

PHILLIPS: You always wonder if that image exists still in his mind. Let's talk about the father and son and the dust storm. This, of course, has some pretty deep meanings behind this piece.

JACKSON: You know, that photograph really speaks about the power of photography. Sometimes we forget how powerful photography has been for making changes, especially social changes, throughout the world, from the child labor laws with the impact of Lewis Hine photographs.

And this particular photograph by Rothstein was done during the Depression. The government, through the Farm Security Administration, sent out a number of photographers, including Walker Evans and Dorothea Lange, to photograph areas that were poverty stricken and areas where the Congress needed to send grant money. So, it was a way for the photographers to prove to Congress of particular areas where grants were well needed.

PHILLIPS: Well, from powerful messages to powerful relationships, let's talk about Irving Penn. He did portraits. He did fashion. There's this one Woody Allen as Charlie Chaplin. Tell us about the relationship with Elton and Irving Penn.

JACKSON: Well, Elton just thinks that Irving Penn is the most genius photographer that's ever lived. And we actually have close to 100 works in the collection by Irving Penn, encompassing everything from his corner portraits he did in 1947 and '48 to the famous fashion photographs he took of his wife, Lisa Fonssagrives -- as well as a number of portraits, including this wonderful one of Woody Allen.

And you know, Penn is someone also that has photographed Elton. And when Elton first went in and met him, I think Elton himself even says how uncomfortable he was meeting such a genius of a photographer, but Penn made him feel so comfortable that now Elton really understands how to work with a photographer when he's having his own portrait taken.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Another special relationship with John Dugdale. This is the inverted vase portrait that we loved. Tell us about his relationship with John.

JACKSON: This is an incredibly special relationship. John Dugdale, who actually lives here in New York -- and it's been probably maybe 15 years now, he suffered a series of strokes from AIDS. And he's still alive, doing well, but because of the strokes, he lost the majority of his eyesight.

And before John was -- lost his eyesight, he was a commercial photographer with, you know, very good clients. But at that time, it was hard for him, because of his illness, to devote himself to a commercial career. So he decided to start photographing things that were close to him, objects he collected, and also self-portraits of him as he struggles through his illness. And Elton and John have become, you know, very, very close. Obviously, Elton's AIDS foundation is an important facet of this. And Elton has had John over to photograph in his Woodside country home outside of London. And it's been an incredibly strong bond between the two of them.

PHILLIPS: The auction is tomorrow at Christy's. Bring thousands and thousands of dollars if, indeed, you want to buy one of these neat pieces of art.

But, Jane, it really does show how compassionate Elton John is, when you learn about these pieces and why he's had them in his life.

JACKSON: It certainly does. This has been a wonderful passion for him, and it's, I think, helped him to continue to expand his interest into many areas.

PHILLIPS: Jane Jackson, thanks so much for your time today.

JACKSON: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. While you were talking, Kyra, Senator John Kerry arrived in Phoenix. Here's the scene, as he disembarked from his chartered 757 at Sky Harbor International Airport, on his way to Tempe, of course, tonight, for the big debate. Our coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern. You don't want to miss a moment of it.

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, well, we can see why Michael Jackson might take a little offense at Eminem's latest video, "Just Lose It," because that is Slim Shady there not -- he drops his nose off. Jackson tells an L.A. radio station he's very angry about this portrayal. That's what he said. Although he wins by a nose when it comes to the number of insults, he's hardly the only target in this video. There you see, of course, the kids jumping on the bed, his hair smoldering. You remember that incident, when he filmed that Pepsi commercial.

Slim Shady also (INAUDIBLE) Madonna, MC Hammer. He hits, so to speak, on Paris Hilton, he rides Erik Estrada, and our LIVE FROM favorite, he even samples a relationship from Pee Wee Herman. That's the best I can do.

So far, Michael Jackson's the only one publicly complaining about it, however. Cable network BET pulled the video from their rotation, calling it inappropriate.

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the next hour of LIVE FROM, we are riding the political wave before tonight's final presidential debate, along with the guys from CROSSFIRE.

We're coming right back for the second hour of LIVE FROM, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 13, 2004 - 13:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Stories now in the news. Who would have guessed? The 9/11 Commission's final report is up for a national book award. It's one of the five finalists in the nonfiction category. It's an interesting selection, since most government reports are considered rather dry.
Baby news for Army Private Lynndie England. The 21-year-old Reservist gave birth on Sunday. "The Baltimore Sun" reports it's a boy. England faces court-martial in January, on charges of abusing prisoners at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison.

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in a case re-examining the death penalty. At issue, should convicted killers who are 16 and 17 be treated as adults in death penalty cases? Nineteen states allow such executions. At least 70 juvenile murderers now sit on death row.

Mount St. Helens putting on another magnificent show. A plume of steam seen rising from the volcano today. Scientists say magma broke through the surface of the volcano yesterday and it's slowly building a new lava dome.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as any political pro will tell you, debates are all about expectations. And the tried and true tactic is to lower the bar for your candidate in advance of a face-to- face encounter, thus making it easier for the spinners to spin once the dust settles.

But the Kerry campaign seems to be ignoring that old saw, as they prepare to go toe to toe in Tempe. Is the bar now set too high for the senator? We pose that question to Democratic consultant Morris Reid, joining us from Los Angeles.

Morris, good to have you with us.

MORRIS REID, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Miles, how are you?

O'BRIEN: I am well, thank you. Let's get right to it. We have a brief interview, an excerpt of an interview, from one of the communications directors of Bush/Cheney '04, Nicole Devenish. Let's just listen to this for a moment, and then I want to get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE DEVENISH, BUSH-CHENEY COMM. DIR.: The Kerry campaign has reminded me of a peacock over the last 10 days. They're very interested in admiring their feathers and really talking up their performance in the debates, but Americans are looking for a leader, and there's only one person in the race who has led on the issue of health care, who has added a prescription drug benefit to Medicare. There's only one candidate in the race who has led for America's small business owners who, as you know, create most of the jobs in America, and there's only one can't in the race who can protect Americans from John Kerry's promised tax hike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right, that's Nicole Devenish, from the Bush-Cheney war room. Let's talk about that first point there, before she got into the specific issues, this notion that the campaign is, metaphorically at least, a peacock right now.

REID: Well, I don't agree with that. I think that they feel pretty good about the two debates. Conversely, the Republicans don't feel that great about George Bush's debate performance thus far. In fact, if they did, they would be out beating their chest as well. One thing I would point out, though, Miles, is that tactically, I believe that this was the first mistake that I really believe the Republicans have made.

O'BRIEN: What was?

REID: With the debate -- the way the debate sequences are. They started with the foreign policy and ending with domestic policy. Now domestic policy is not really his strong suit, the foreign is. So as things have now gone to a lull, and he's really behind, and people feel he's lost the first two, this is not necessarily the strongest foot they want to be on right now. I understand why they did it. They really wanted the knockout punch on the front end, but I believe tactically this is going to come back to bite them in the butt.

O'BRIEN: That's interesting. We could go back and forth all day, as to which is the more important debate, the first or last. That would be an interesting one. Let's -- I want to get some poll numbers in front of you for just a moment here. This is part of our CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, just came out, questions asked October 9th and 10th. This is interesting one. The question is, who is more believable? Kerry has a big gap here, a believability gap. Why is that, and what can he do about it, Morris?

REID: Well, think that he just has to present himself in the best possible light. One of the things about George Bush, is whether you like his policies or not, he's a guy that sort of -- you saw him, he has that little swagger, he goes to dinner without a coat and tie; he's a regular Joe.

And I that what John Kerry really needs to do is just present himself in the most comfortable manner. But I also believe this is where he could really have his daughters and his stepsons to really step up, his children, to really present him in a very comfortable light. I just think that George Bush -- just, he presents better. He's a guy that, you know, you can sit across table and have a beer with. That doesn't necessarily mean you want him for the president at this point in time and...

O'BRIEN: Historically, guy you want to have I beer with tends to do well. Whether you like it or not, there's a certain amount of that popularity factor, that comfortability, whatever you want to call it, that people factor into their voting.

Next numbers I want to talk with you about here, same poll, October 9th and 10th the questions. Who is more likely to keep his campaign promises was the question. And once again, Kerry has a gap here. People don't trust him, for whatever reason. Why?

REID: I think that the flip-flop issue really has stuck here with Kerry. He hasn't been able to really articulate to the people that, I am not flip-flopping, I'm getting more information and I'm able to really, then, process those thing.

George Bush has really been focused on three thing, and that's all he's talked about, terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, where John Kerry's tried to talk about a lot of different thing. It's just a style, campaign style. And sometimes you really shouldn't try to bite off more than you can chew, and the Republicans have been very good about staying on that one core message, whereas John Kerry has been all over the place, and trying to have an answer for every one in a lot of cases.

O'BRIEN: All right, final thought here. What do you anticipate tonight? My gut tells me we're going to see kind of a conservative type of night, a rope-a-dope night. Do you see something else happening?

REID: I think it will be very aggressive.

O'BRIEN: Really?

REID: Yes, I do. I think it's very important. When you mentioned about the first or last debate, which being the most important, the first is always the most important, because more people watch. However, in a very close race, every debate is more important. It was 60, 42. I believe you're going to see about 40 million people watching this time, which will be more than you saw in 2000 altogether. So I think they'll be both very aggressive.

This is a race, as I've always predicted, that will come down to the last 15 days. This is not about converting the people that are already with you. It's about identifying those people that are on the fence, motivating them to get to the poll on behalf of your candidate. It's going to be very tight. This debate tonight is very critical for both candidates.

O'BRIEN: But who remembers that Richard Nixon aced that last debate against Kennedy in the 1960s, it's just worth thinking about.

REID: Well, I wasn't around then, but they didn't have CNN to bring all the good information to the people.

O'BRIEN: Well, there you go, that was the problem, there wasn't enough CNN.

REID: That was the problem.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, always a pleasure, come back anytime -- Kyra.

REID: Thanks, Miles. Thanks so much.

PHILLIPS: Hoping to avoid any snafus that could jeopardize ballots cast by Servicemen and women overseas, troops are getting absentee voter booklets and are being assigned officers to help answer any questions they might have. In the last election, problems like lack of postmarks or signatures meant hundred of ballots from troops abroad were just thrown out.

Well, remember the election 2000 debacle in Florida, hanging chads, dimples, manual recounts? Florida election officials now say a problem discovered yesterday holds the sign of things to come. A check of electronic voting machines Palm Beach County was postponed after the computer server crashed. It will now take place Friday. Florida's election supervisor assures that the problem won't affect voting come Election Day.

Other news around the world, speaking of palm beach, Afghanistan looks a little like Florida, circa 2000. It's been four days since elections, and they've yet to count a single vote. At least 43 complaints have been filed so far. The deadline's extended until tomorrow. And officials have to review all of them before they can start to tally the ballots. Many of the gripes center on ink used to mark voter's thumbs in some polling stations. That ink could be rubbed off, allowing some people to vote more than once.

And is Germany softening on the issue of sending troops to Iraq? The NATO conference today in Romania, Germany's defense minister says that his country can't rule out getting involved in Iraq years from now. Germany, which opposed the war and troop engagements, is now involved in security training for Iraqi forces.

O'BRIEN: In Beslan, Russia, the 40-day mourning period for victims of the deadly school siege is over. Many people returned to the school yesterday in hopes of moving on, but the visit proved much too difficult for many survivors.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They walked the school corridors, studied the bullet holes in the walls, find notebooks left behind from that awful day 40 days ago.

"We came here because we thought we could still see them," Marina tells me. "We don't believe they died. We think they're still here."

Twelve-year-old David recalls one particular group of victims. He manages only six words -- "The Tumbayos (ph)," he says, "one family, six people."

At the cemetery, a ceremony marks the end of 40 days of mourning. Most people here are Orthodox Christians who believe the soul rises to heaven on the 40th day.

(on camera): In a spiritual sense, the people of Beslan are saying goodbye to more than 300 people killed in the hostage crisis -- more than half of them just children.

(voice-over): There are crosses over most graves, with just a stick at 12-year-old Emma's. Her parents are Muslim. For two-year- old Christina, a doll still in its packaging.

Muslim rebels have claimed responsibility for the Beslan attack. Amidst calls for revenge, many of the mothers here struggle to understand the killers.

"How could you raise your hand against children," she asks a crowd around her daughter's grave. "Those killers weren't brought up on their mother's milk; they were brought up on bombs."

After 40 days, Beslan is still in shock.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Beslan, Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We're used to seeing Elton John in front of a camera. But it turns out that Sir Elton not only has a flair for creating spectacles, he's also got an appreciative eye for the vision of others.

Over the years, he has amassed a photography collection that ranks as one of the world's best. But now he's parting with some of his prized works, including this piece by Robert Mapplethorpe, "Calla Lily." Elton says he had a strong desire for beautiful surroundings after becoming sober. And "The Tetons and the Snake River," taken by the legendary Ansel Adams, and this incredible collage by Harry Callahan from the late 1950s.

Jane Jackson is Elton John's own curator. She's joining us now from our New York Bureau to talk about an auction tomorrow at Christie's that's truly a connoisseur's kind of yard sale. Hi, Jane.

JANE JACKSON, SIR ELTON JOHN PHOTO COLLECTION: Hi, how are you, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Well, I have a question. I know he has so many of these photographs -- why is he wanting to auction a number of them off?

JACKSON: Well, I started working for Elton a year-and-a-half ago, and we took a broad approach of looking at the collection, cataloging it, and then seeing areas where we needed to add to the collection, as well as areas where we had, really, too much of certain things.

So, in some respects, this is a way that we're actually pruning the collection. In the future, we'll be diversifying it more. So, with the instance of the Mapplethorpes and Michael Kennas and John Dugdales and Irving Penns, those are all artists that he has collected in depth over the years -- and actually has, you know, in some cases over 100 photographs by those particular artists.

So, we're parting only with a few things.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's get more in depth on his relationship with some of these artists, also. Let's start with the picture of Elton with a fan -- or a bouquet, rather, from a fan. Tell us about this.

JACKSON: That is by Norman Parkinson, who was a very famous fashion photographer in -- based in England. And this was early on in Elton's career. And obviously, this is right after he was becoming extremely famous. And Norman spent a whole day shooting Elton, and that was a published image at the time.

PHILLIPS: Does he even remember the fan that gave him the bouquet?

JACKSON: No, I don't think so.

PHILLIPS: You always wonder if that image exists still in his mind. Let's talk about the father and son and the dust storm. This, of course, has some pretty deep meanings behind this piece.

JACKSON: You know, that photograph really speaks about the power of photography. Sometimes we forget how powerful photography has been for making changes, especially social changes, throughout the world, from the child labor laws with the impact of Lewis Hine photographs.

And this particular photograph by Rothstein was done during the Depression. The government, through the Farm Security Administration, sent out a number of photographers, including Walker Evans and Dorothea Lange, to photograph areas that were poverty stricken and areas where the Congress needed to send grant money. So, it was a way for the photographers to prove to Congress of particular areas where grants were well needed.

PHILLIPS: Well, from powerful messages to powerful relationships, let's talk about Irving Penn. He did portraits. He did fashion. There's this one Woody Allen as Charlie Chaplin. Tell us about the relationship with Elton and Irving Penn.

JACKSON: Well, Elton just thinks that Irving Penn is the most genius photographer that's ever lived. And we actually have close to 100 works in the collection by Irving Penn, encompassing everything from his corner portraits he did in 1947 and '48 to the famous fashion photographs he took of his wife, Lisa Fonssagrives -- as well as a number of portraits, including this wonderful one of Woody Allen.

And you know, Penn is someone also that has photographed Elton. And when Elton first went in and met him, I think Elton himself even says how uncomfortable he was meeting such a genius of a photographer, but Penn made him feel so comfortable that now Elton really understands how to work with a photographer when he's having his own portrait taken.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Another special relationship with John Dugdale. This is the inverted vase portrait that we loved. Tell us about his relationship with John.

JACKSON: This is an incredibly special relationship. John Dugdale, who actually lives here in New York -- and it's been probably maybe 15 years now, he suffered a series of strokes from AIDS. And he's still alive, doing well, but because of the strokes, he lost the majority of his eyesight.

And before John was -- lost his eyesight, he was a commercial photographer with, you know, very good clients. But at that time, it was hard for him, because of his illness, to devote himself to a commercial career. So he decided to start photographing things that were close to him, objects he collected, and also self-portraits of him as he struggles through his illness. And Elton and John have become, you know, very, very close. Obviously, Elton's AIDS foundation is an important facet of this. And Elton has had John over to photograph in his Woodside country home outside of London. And it's been an incredibly strong bond between the two of them.

PHILLIPS: The auction is tomorrow at Christy's. Bring thousands and thousands of dollars if, indeed, you want to buy one of these neat pieces of art.

But, Jane, it really does show how compassionate Elton John is, when you learn about these pieces and why he's had them in his life.

JACKSON: It certainly does. This has been a wonderful passion for him, and it's, I think, helped him to continue to expand his interest into many areas.

PHILLIPS: Jane Jackson, thanks so much for your time today.

JACKSON: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. While you were talking, Kyra, Senator John Kerry arrived in Phoenix. Here's the scene, as he disembarked from his chartered 757 at Sky Harbor International Airport, on his way to Tempe, of course, tonight, for the big debate. Our coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern. You don't want to miss a moment of it.

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O'BRIEN: All right, well, we can see why Michael Jackson might take a little offense at Eminem's latest video, "Just Lose It," because that is Slim Shady there not -- he drops his nose off. Jackson tells an L.A. radio station he's very angry about this portrayal. That's what he said. Although he wins by a nose when it comes to the number of insults, he's hardly the only target in this video. There you see, of course, the kids jumping on the bed, his hair smoldering. You remember that incident, when he filmed that Pepsi commercial.

Slim Shady also (INAUDIBLE) Madonna, MC Hammer. He hits, so to speak, on Paris Hilton, he rides Erik Estrada, and our LIVE FROM favorite, he even samples a relationship from Pee Wee Herman. That's the best I can do.

So far, Michael Jackson's the only one publicly complaining about it, however. Cable network BET pulled the video from their rotation, calling it inappropriate.

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PHILLIPS: Coming up in the next hour of LIVE FROM, we are riding the political wave before tonight's final presidential debate, along with the guys from CROSSFIRE.

We're coming right back for the second hour of LIVE FROM, right after this.

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