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Bush Campaigns in Florida, Kerry in Pennsylvania; Spanish TV Airs Video of Madrid Bombings; Head of CARE International Held Captive in Iraq
Aired October 19, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Terror tapes seen by the public for the first time. The horrific moments when the bombs went off in Madrid.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: Terrorist wanted. A new push to enlist Iraqis to track down a man swearing allegiance to Osama bin Laden.
PHILLIPS: And the fight for your allegiance on November 2. Polls and pundits see no easy victory for either side. We're live from the campaign trail.
HARRIS: Plus flu shot shortages. What you can do to protect your health if you can't get the vaccine.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris in for Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Well, you no longer need to be a pundit to know which are the swing states, the battlegrounds, the states most up for grabs between George W. Bush and John Kerry. Just look at the candidates' schedules.
Two weeks out from election day, there's no time to waste on safe bet states or long shots. From here on out it's all about Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and very few others.
Here's why. Our daily poll of polls, an average of respected media surveys shows the race still uncallable within the margin of error. Bush holds a four-point lead, pretty much like before the three debates. But the potential for error is four points in either direction.
Now, for the second time in four days, Candidate Bush is busing across Florida, where election day is actually 15 days long. It started yesterday. Already today, Bush has two rallies under his belt. The first in St. Petersburg, the second in New Port Richey, down the I-4 corridor. And both of those are in counties Bush lost in 2000.
Here's CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Within minutes of the president's first Florida rally, the president tries to stop a key Kerry attack line from sticking. And that is that Mr. Bush's policies have created the flu shortage that is affecting many people in Florida, especially seniors.
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to assure them that our government is doing everything possible to help older Americans and children get their shots, despite the major manufacturing defect that caused this problem.
BASH: In an effort to shape their own message, the Bush campaign for months prevented Mr. Bush from directly responding to attacks from his opponent. But not anymore.
Senator Kerry has been here in Florida, talking not just about the flu vaccine but also seizing on reports that the president wants to privatize Social Security. And he's been stoking the idea that Mr. Bush wants to reinstate the draft.
The president responded at each of the two stops on his bus tour so far.
BUSH: I will do what I've said I will do. We will keep the promise of Social Security for our seniors. We will not have a draft. We will have an all-volunteer Army.
On November 2, the people of America will reject the politics of fear.
BASH: Mr. Bush's stepped up defense is proof of just how crucial Florida's 27 electoral votes are and also proof of how important it is for him to be here right this moment, because early voting has started here in Florida. And it's something the president reminded his faithful at every rally while he was here with his brother, the governor.
He said it's important for everybody here to get 10 people out to vote. They also want to make sure that those who have not yet decided don't listen to Senator Kerry's charges without hearing his response.
Dana Bash, New Port Richey, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Having stumped in the sunshine yesterday, John Kerry is in Wilkes-Barre, and Dayton is waiting. CNN's Frank Buckley is traveling with him.
Hi, Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Tony.
We -- we're in Wilkes-Barre where Senator Kerry is going to be later this morning -- in fact, later this afternoon, within this hour, he's supposed to speak. This is his 19th visit to the state of Pennsylvania, a very important battleground state.
In fact, this very Kirby Hall, where we're standing, where all these people are in line behind us, they could have seen President Bush here just two weeks ago.
This is an area that went to Al Gore in 2000, but the Bush campaign believes that it is vulnerable this year. So both sides are battling it out here. President Bush here just a couple of weeks ago.
Senator Kerry left Florida earlier today. Later today, as you say, he'll be going to Ohio. Those three states, Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio, very important this election season. Conventional wisdom is you win two of those three states, and you win the presidency.
Here in Wilkes-Barre, Senator Kerry will be talking about Social Security and fiscal responsibility. He's expected to call President Bush the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. He'll also talk about Social Security and say that huge deficits under the Bush administration threaten Social Security.
He's expected to cite that "New York Times" magazine article that came out over the weekend that suggested that President Bush plans to move quickly in his second term, if elected, to privatize Social Security.
President Bush, in an interview with the Associated Press, calling that shameless scare tactics by the Kerry administration -- by the Kerry campaign. He says that he will make the overhaul of Social Security a top priority in his administration. But that will not affect benefits at all.
As I said, Tony, Senator Kerry expected to speak here later this hour -- Tony.
HARRIS: Frank, do you expect John Kerry to touch on this whole flu vaccine, the shortage, the controversy surrounding it at all today?
BUCKLEY: Well, he has certainly talked about that in the past. It's possible he'll talk about it once again today. It's -- it's a topic that, of course, is of great interest to many people and especially here in Pennsylvania.
Because while he talked about it in Florida, where you have the largest population of seniors, voting seniors, this is the second state with the second most populous number of senior citizen voters. So it's certainly a topic that -- that could come up here.
HARRIS: And how frustrated is the Kerry campaign getting that he can't seem to get past this perception in the polls of their man as being untrustworthy?
BUCKLEY: Well, they believe that -- they would, first of all, question the premise of that question. They would suggest that -- that their polling shows, for example after the first three debates that they crossed that threshold of whether Senator Kerry could be president, could be commander in chief. They believe that in the three debates they made that case. And they made it convincingly with voters.
But they would also say that their plan over the next couple of weeks is to talk about John Kerry as the champion of the middle class, to suggest to voters that President Bush has not been on your side during his administration. He's been looking after his own interests, his special interests, while the middle class has suffered, and that Senator Kerry is the one who is going to be talking about those specific issues that are of interest to you.
And he'll add plans and proposals during the next two weeks that he'll be talking about that -- that will not only make the case, but close the case in these closing arguments, as the aides have called them, that he will be the president who will deal with middle class issues.
HARRIS: Closing arguments, I think, is how they're describing it. Frank Buckley with the Kerry campaign in Pennsylvania. Frank, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, overseas this hour, and inside look at inhumane cruelty -- or inhuman cruelty, rather, a terror attack that many think tilted a nationwide election barely three days later.
It's the bombings last March of this commuter train and station in Madrid in which almost 200 people were killed. Never before seen video aired today on Spanish TV. And CNN's Al Goodman shows and tells us now all about it.
Al, tell us what we see on the tape play by play.
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, this is Atocha train station in Madrid, March 11. This commuter train is ripped apart by three terrorist bombs. The train is packed with morning rush hour commuters.
This is a deadly sequence, that if you look at the time code slowly, it just took seconds. That's what the court documents also say. It was just a matter of seconds.
People trying to get to an upper level of the station to get away. Everybody running in panic.
This, as you say, are from the security camera. And this being released for the first time this day by police after a Spanish television station, a talk show, not a news show, got a copy of this, put it on the air this morning. And now police at mid-day releasing this to everyone -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now Al, you said at first this tape was leaked. And now it's being handed out. Why? GOODMAN: Well, they're obviously trying to get it out to everyone, since this Spanish television station, Telecinco, on a morning talk show, put it out.
Now, there have been leaks as the investigation has been going on. You know, we're seven months since the bombings; 191 people died that day; 1,800 people were injured. And the court investigation continues. There have been some leaks. About a month ago there were still photographs of these same sequences that were published by the major newspaper in the country, the largest paper in the country, "El Pais."
The court at that time publicly said they were shocked and dismayed by this. But now they've made the decision that since one station has got it, they're going to let everybody see it -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: What's been the reaction from those in Spain? This is something that viewers are not used to seeing on their air.
GOODMAN: Well, they're certainly not used to seeing this. And the healing process continues very much. Even this day there was testimony over at the parliament -- parliamentary commission investigating the bombings.
Now, we've called around to all the major television stations in Spain. And all of them say there's basically been no reaction. The only reaction, one call according to Telecinco, which is the station that put this out this morning on its talk show. One person wanted to buy this tape, Kyra. That's the only reaction we've heard about so far.
PHILLIPS: Al Goodman, live from Spain. Thanks so much.
HARRIS: Now to Iraq where insurgents are relying on tried and true tactics and targets with tragic results.
Four Iraqi National Guard troops are dead today after a mortar attack north of Baghdad, and the local head of operations for the aid group CARE International is held captive after yet another abduction.
CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us with the latest -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.
Margaret Hassan -- she's the Iraqi country director for CARE International -- was abducted this morning. CARE International, which is headquartered in Brussels in Belgium so far hasn't given us in more details of the circumstances of that kidnapping.
It's obviously a very sensitive issue at this stage. But Margaret Hassan is a dual British-Iraqi citizen. And she's dedicated more than half her life to aid work in Iraq. Certainly, a very well known figure here over the 30 years that she's been working here.
CARE International has issued a statement saying that they don't know what the motives are for her kidnap, but say they trust that she is well. That seems to be backed up by a videotape that was released through the Arabic language broadcaster Al Jazeera today. That shows Margaret Hassan sitting in a room, obviously very anxious. It also shows close-ups op her identification papers.
But again, no demands from the kidnappers there and not clear at this stage which group may be holding her.
Now, news of that kidnapping came shortly after another incident this morning north of Baghdad, a mortar attack on a base used by the Iraqi National Guard. And in that attack we're told by the Iraqi Defense Ministry at least four Iraqi National Guardsmen were killed and 18 more were wounded -- Tony.
HARRIS: Karl Penhaul, reporting live from Baghdad. Karl, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, the risky business of keeping troops fed, fueled, armed and, of course, on the move is on the front burner this week. The military says it's an isolated incident and the troops in question have been reassigned pending recertification.
In the meantime, we're all learning more about the painstaking planning that surrounds even the most routine resupply attempts. Retired Army General William Pagonis wrote the book. It's called "Moving Mountains," and it draws on his experiences as the chief supply officer for U.S. troops in the first Gulf War in 1991. He joins us now this hour from Pittsburgh.
General, good to see you.
GEN. WILLIAM PAGONIS, AUTHOR, "MOVING MOUNTAINS": Good afternoon.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about -- As you know, we've talk so much about this platoon and allegedly how a number of soldiers have refused to take on this dangerous mission.
Let's step aside and take a look at convoys, especially fuel missions. And these are the most dangerous types of convoys, correct?
PAGONIS: Yes. But people have to realize there's a movement control center that establishes the rules of the road for all the convoys that are moving in a theater of operation. And whether it's food, fuel, or water or medical supplies, there are people checking those routes to make sure they're not going through dangerous areas or sending out the right security forces to secure them.
PHILLIPS: And in this movement control center, specialists look at the routes. They gather intelligence. They -- they know the last time it was traveled. It's very specific, right?
PAGONIS: Extremely specific. It makes sure you don't try to send the convoy where you know there's a hot area, or if there is an area where they have to go through, you try to have the screening done. And of course, all that is done on a methodical basis, on a continuous basis, because you never want to send troops into harm's way. However, it's a very tedious process that has to be done on a continuous basis.
PHILLIPS: All right. You -- you were in charge of convoys like this. So let's step back, take a look at what's been going on with the 343rd Platoon.
I put together a list of what we talked about earlier, the important things to look at. No. 1, when seeing a situation like this where soldiers don't want to go on the mission, you've got to look at morale, right?
PAGONIS: Absolutely. I mean, there's always all kinds of reasons. And I can't comment since the investigation is going on and I don't have all the facts. But the leadership will look at why are they refusing to go.
Having armored Humvees is not always the answer. It's very expensive to have armored Humvees. They're hard to maintain. You have to decide the space between the vehicles and what kind of cargo is on the vehicles.
But leadership gets involved to make sure the training is done and reinforced and you keep the troops informed of what's going on and what they can expect.
PHILLIPS: All right. You've also have got to look at this platoon. How many times has this platoon been hit during convoys? Also, have they had any casualties, any deaths? And also military police. Do these convoys always have M.P. escorts?
PAGONIS: Well, it depends. This movement control center, if it's a secure route that hasn't had any activity on it, you may not have M.P. escorts. If it's a route that they're concerned about, they will put M.P. escorts.
They also sometimes have helicopters flying over the route to give you some air coverage. So it all depends on the situation.
Of course, I'm not aware whether this platoon has been in contact before. That always causes some concern among the troops. In Vietnam, convoys were ambushed every day and -- and that was just a common problem.
In the Gulf, especially in Iraq, when you're going across the desert, that's one thing. But when you're going through small towns, it's very easy for people to attack a convoy from behind a building or from behind a burned out car.
PHILLIPS: Now, when you were in charge of these men and women that had to do these convoys, did anyone ever come up to you and say, "Sir, this is too dangerous. I can't do this mission"?
PAGONIS: Not to me personally. When I was a young captain in Vietnam I used to have troops come up. I was on a water-borne mission where we moved up and down the rivers of the Mekong Delta. And I'd have troops, since we were ambushed every day, say, "hey, why are we doing this?"
And I'd have to sit down and explain it to them. And then also cover the procedures that we're going to take to protect everybody.
So it's -- it's a human nature thing. When you're sending people into combat, naturally they're going to question it. And that's what the leadership does. They explain to them why they're doing it and what measures you've taken to make it more secure and more safe for them.
PHILLIPS: I'm sure that communication creates confidence, no doubt.
And I know you also said you've got to look at how many hours these soldiers have been working. Were they extremely tired? Did they think they didn't have the energy to go on such a convoy?
But also you brought up a good point about the training, the refresher training. When you're over there for this long period of time, you have to constantly be reminded of how crucial these convoys or how, I guess, these convoys can be of high threat.
PAGONIS: Well, what happens is when you start having convoys and it becomes routine, we sometimes forget to keep that competitive edge, making sure you check all avenues of what's going on. Training and refresher training are always very, very important.
And that's the leadership's responsibility to do that so that the troops have the confidence that what they're doing is going to be solid, that they're going to have the backup needed in case there is a problem.
PHILLIPS: It will be interesting to see how this investigation turns out. General Gus Pagonis, thanks for your time today, sir.
PAGONIS: You're welcome, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, tracking down a terrorist. Will posters like the one you're about to see and a $25 million reward help catch an al Qaeda operative behind Iraq attacks? We're live from the Pentagon.
Who needs the needle? Some other ways you can protect yourself if you can't get the flu shot.
And the presidential election: the voting, the lawsuits, they've already started. Tabulating the troubles later on LIVE FROM.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: So, so, so, so, so, with all the worries about the flu shot shortage, many people are scrambling to get one or find an alternative. Our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, looks at what some communities are doing and the impact antivirals may have.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've all seen the long lines now for the flu vaccine shot. Communities around the country coming up with some creative ways to try and give away some of these flu vaccine shots.
For example, in the township of Bloomfield in New Jersey, they're actually having a lottery. I've never heard of something like this when it comes to giving away flu shots. They're going to have a lottery for 300 of the some 1,000 shots that they have.
People will enter this Thursday and then find out by mail if they win a shot in the arm.
(on camera) Also, prestigious medical institutions getting involved in the prioritization of these flu shot recipients. Talking specifically about the "New England Journal of Medicine" and in this case, talking about pregnant women.
(voice-over) Specifically pointing out that the third trimester has double the risk versus the first and second trimesters. So those women should be more a candidate for these flu shots.
Also the risk increases with age. So a 75-year-old person may be a better candidate than a 70-year-old person.
(on camera) They American Academy of Family Physicians is going to issue their guidelines. That's expected later over the next couple of weeks.
They're pointing out, as well, that there are other ways to deal with the flu if you receive it. Antiviral medication, such as Tamiflu, Relenza, Flumadine and Symmetrel.
(voice-over) These are medications that you take if you develop any signs or symptoms of the flu. You've got to take it within the first couple of days or they really don't work.
And worth pointing out, as well, that the Centers for Disease Control are already stockpiling these anti-viral medications in anticipation that there might be a huge demand for them as the flu season progresses.
(on camera) We'll certainly keep you posted here at CNN.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, digging up bones. Investigators find new clues about who's buried in a mafia dumping ground.
Later on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like them here because they make me wait for my doctor's appointment.
PHILLIPS: Cold comfort. Flu shot shortages inspire a migration north of the border. But will Canada continue to let Americans roll up their sleeves?
GEORGE CARLIN, COMEDIAN: Some of this stuff has gotten really silly.
PHILLIPS: And tomorrow on LIVE FROM, he knows the seven words you can't say on television. Find out what comedian George Carlin will say when he does the LIVE FROM interview.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," our Chicago tour continues. We'll be inside of Union Station tomorrow.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": We're talking to the lieutenant governor, also Erma P. Hall, a character actress from Chicago.
HEMMER: And the movable bridges along the Chicago River. Really great story. Dozens and dozens of bridges that go up and down at only certain times of the year. So -- and some really good pictures to show you, too.
And the political season, too, deep-dish politics. Politics and Chicago are hand in hand. So we'll have that for you as well tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: All that and much more. We'll see you tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Developing story out of Tennessee. This video just in to CNN. It's Dyersburg, Tennessee, actually. You're looking at storm damage.
Heavy rain from a line of strong thunderstorms moving across Tennessee caused a lot of flash flooding and reported some minor injuries. National Weather Service estimating two to four inches of rain had fallen between Monday when the storms first hit and mid- morning today.
The storms also brought strong winds and frequent lightning, we are told. You can see the results here of that storm damage.
School systems in several counties were closed or they're opening up much later because of the flooded roads. Also, reported two minor injuries specifically in this county, in Dyer County including one person hurt when struck by a falling tree. We continue the follow the weather that's going across Tennessee at this hour.
HARRIS: Let's check other news from across America now.
In Queens, New York, two weeks of digging an alleged mafia bone yard has led to two capos of the Bonanno crime family. Preliminary indications based on personal items, including a credit card and an expensive watch. Conclusive DNA results will take weeks.
In Eugene, Oregon, a college man gets a knock on his door and finds a posse of local cops, search and rescue personnel and the civil air patrol? It seems they'd been scrambled by the Air Force Rescue Center in Langley, Virginia. A satellite had picked up an international distress signal coming from Chris Van Rossman's -- you won't believe this -- flat screen TV.
And if you drive an Escalade better check the parking lot. An annual insurance industry survey says the pricey ride is the favored target of U.S. car thieves for the second year in a row. The Nissan Maxima is second on the list of likely to be hot wheels.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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Aired October 19, 2004 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Terror tapes seen by the public for the first time. The horrific moments when the bombs went off in Madrid.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: Terrorist wanted. A new push to enlist Iraqis to track down a man swearing allegiance to Osama bin Laden.
PHILLIPS: And the fight for your allegiance on November 2. Polls and pundits see no easy victory for either side. We're live from the campaign trail.
HARRIS: Plus flu shot shortages. What you can do to protect your health if you can't get the vaccine.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris in for Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
Well, you no longer need to be a pundit to know which are the swing states, the battlegrounds, the states most up for grabs between George W. Bush and John Kerry. Just look at the candidates' schedules.
Two weeks out from election day, there's no time to waste on safe bet states or long shots. From here on out it's all about Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and very few others.
Here's why. Our daily poll of polls, an average of respected media surveys shows the race still uncallable within the margin of error. Bush holds a four-point lead, pretty much like before the three debates. But the potential for error is four points in either direction.
Now, for the second time in four days, Candidate Bush is busing across Florida, where election day is actually 15 days long. It started yesterday. Already today, Bush has two rallies under his belt. The first in St. Petersburg, the second in New Port Richey, down the I-4 corridor. And both of those are in counties Bush lost in 2000.
Here's CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Within minutes of the president's first Florida rally, the president tries to stop a key Kerry attack line from sticking. And that is that Mr. Bush's policies have created the flu shortage that is affecting many people in Florida, especially seniors.
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to assure them that our government is doing everything possible to help older Americans and children get their shots, despite the major manufacturing defect that caused this problem.
BASH: In an effort to shape their own message, the Bush campaign for months prevented Mr. Bush from directly responding to attacks from his opponent. But not anymore.
Senator Kerry has been here in Florida, talking not just about the flu vaccine but also seizing on reports that the president wants to privatize Social Security. And he's been stoking the idea that Mr. Bush wants to reinstate the draft.
The president responded at each of the two stops on his bus tour so far.
BUSH: I will do what I've said I will do. We will keep the promise of Social Security for our seniors. We will not have a draft. We will have an all-volunteer Army.
On November 2, the people of America will reject the politics of fear.
BASH: Mr. Bush's stepped up defense is proof of just how crucial Florida's 27 electoral votes are and also proof of how important it is for him to be here right this moment, because early voting has started here in Florida. And it's something the president reminded his faithful at every rally while he was here with his brother, the governor.
He said it's important for everybody here to get 10 people out to vote. They also want to make sure that those who have not yet decided don't listen to Senator Kerry's charges without hearing his response.
Dana Bash, New Port Richey, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Having stumped in the sunshine yesterday, John Kerry is in Wilkes-Barre, and Dayton is waiting. CNN's Frank Buckley is traveling with him.
Hi, Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Tony.
We -- we're in Wilkes-Barre where Senator Kerry is going to be later this morning -- in fact, later this afternoon, within this hour, he's supposed to speak. This is his 19th visit to the state of Pennsylvania, a very important battleground state.
In fact, this very Kirby Hall, where we're standing, where all these people are in line behind us, they could have seen President Bush here just two weeks ago.
This is an area that went to Al Gore in 2000, but the Bush campaign believes that it is vulnerable this year. So both sides are battling it out here. President Bush here just a couple of weeks ago.
Senator Kerry left Florida earlier today. Later today, as you say, he'll be going to Ohio. Those three states, Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio, very important this election season. Conventional wisdom is you win two of those three states, and you win the presidency.
Here in Wilkes-Barre, Senator Kerry will be talking about Social Security and fiscal responsibility. He's expected to call President Bush the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. He'll also talk about Social Security and say that huge deficits under the Bush administration threaten Social Security.
He's expected to cite that "New York Times" magazine article that came out over the weekend that suggested that President Bush plans to move quickly in his second term, if elected, to privatize Social Security.
President Bush, in an interview with the Associated Press, calling that shameless scare tactics by the Kerry administration -- by the Kerry campaign. He says that he will make the overhaul of Social Security a top priority in his administration. But that will not affect benefits at all.
As I said, Tony, Senator Kerry expected to speak here later this hour -- Tony.
HARRIS: Frank, do you expect John Kerry to touch on this whole flu vaccine, the shortage, the controversy surrounding it at all today?
BUCKLEY: Well, he has certainly talked about that in the past. It's possible he'll talk about it once again today. It's -- it's a topic that, of course, is of great interest to many people and especially here in Pennsylvania.
Because while he talked about it in Florida, where you have the largest population of seniors, voting seniors, this is the second state with the second most populous number of senior citizen voters. So it's certainly a topic that -- that could come up here.
HARRIS: And how frustrated is the Kerry campaign getting that he can't seem to get past this perception in the polls of their man as being untrustworthy?
BUCKLEY: Well, they believe that -- they would, first of all, question the premise of that question. They would suggest that -- that their polling shows, for example after the first three debates that they crossed that threshold of whether Senator Kerry could be president, could be commander in chief. They believe that in the three debates they made that case. And they made it convincingly with voters.
But they would also say that their plan over the next couple of weeks is to talk about John Kerry as the champion of the middle class, to suggest to voters that President Bush has not been on your side during his administration. He's been looking after his own interests, his special interests, while the middle class has suffered, and that Senator Kerry is the one who is going to be talking about those specific issues that are of interest to you.
And he'll add plans and proposals during the next two weeks that he'll be talking about that -- that will not only make the case, but close the case in these closing arguments, as the aides have called them, that he will be the president who will deal with middle class issues.
HARRIS: Closing arguments, I think, is how they're describing it. Frank Buckley with the Kerry campaign in Pennsylvania. Frank, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, overseas this hour, and inside look at inhumane cruelty -- or inhuman cruelty, rather, a terror attack that many think tilted a nationwide election barely three days later.
It's the bombings last March of this commuter train and station in Madrid in which almost 200 people were killed. Never before seen video aired today on Spanish TV. And CNN's Al Goodman shows and tells us now all about it.
Al, tell us what we see on the tape play by play.
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, this is Atocha train station in Madrid, March 11. This commuter train is ripped apart by three terrorist bombs. The train is packed with morning rush hour commuters.
This is a deadly sequence, that if you look at the time code slowly, it just took seconds. That's what the court documents also say. It was just a matter of seconds.
People trying to get to an upper level of the station to get away. Everybody running in panic.
This, as you say, are from the security camera. And this being released for the first time this day by police after a Spanish television station, a talk show, not a news show, got a copy of this, put it on the air this morning. And now police at mid-day releasing this to everyone -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now Al, you said at first this tape was leaked. And now it's being handed out. Why? GOODMAN: Well, they're obviously trying to get it out to everyone, since this Spanish television station, Telecinco, on a morning talk show, put it out.
Now, there have been leaks as the investigation has been going on. You know, we're seven months since the bombings; 191 people died that day; 1,800 people were injured. And the court investigation continues. There have been some leaks. About a month ago there were still photographs of these same sequences that were published by the major newspaper in the country, the largest paper in the country, "El Pais."
The court at that time publicly said they were shocked and dismayed by this. But now they've made the decision that since one station has got it, they're going to let everybody see it -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: What's been the reaction from those in Spain? This is something that viewers are not used to seeing on their air.
GOODMAN: Well, they're certainly not used to seeing this. And the healing process continues very much. Even this day there was testimony over at the parliament -- parliamentary commission investigating the bombings.
Now, we've called around to all the major television stations in Spain. And all of them say there's basically been no reaction. The only reaction, one call according to Telecinco, which is the station that put this out this morning on its talk show. One person wanted to buy this tape, Kyra. That's the only reaction we've heard about so far.
PHILLIPS: Al Goodman, live from Spain. Thanks so much.
HARRIS: Now to Iraq where insurgents are relying on tried and true tactics and targets with tragic results.
Four Iraqi National Guard troops are dead today after a mortar attack north of Baghdad, and the local head of operations for the aid group CARE International is held captive after yet another abduction.
CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us with the latest -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.
Margaret Hassan -- she's the Iraqi country director for CARE International -- was abducted this morning. CARE International, which is headquartered in Brussels in Belgium so far hasn't given us in more details of the circumstances of that kidnapping.
It's obviously a very sensitive issue at this stage. But Margaret Hassan is a dual British-Iraqi citizen. And she's dedicated more than half her life to aid work in Iraq. Certainly, a very well known figure here over the 30 years that she's been working here.
CARE International has issued a statement saying that they don't know what the motives are for her kidnap, but say they trust that she is well. That seems to be backed up by a videotape that was released through the Arabic language broadcaster Al Jazeera today. That shows Margaret Hassan sitting in a room, obviously very anxious. It also shows close-ups op her identification papers.
But again, no demands from the kidnappers there and not clear at this stage which group may be holding her.
Now, news of that kidnapping came shortly after another incident this morning north of Baghdad, a mortar attack on a base used by the Iraqi National Guard. And in that attack we're told by the Iraqi Defense Ministry at least four Iraqi National Guardsmen were killed and 18 more were wounded -- Tony.
HARRIS: Karl Penhaul, reporting live from Baghdad. Karl, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, the risky business of keeping troops fed, fueled, armed and, of course, on the move is on the front burner this week. The military says it's an isolated incident and the troops in question have been reassigned pending recertification.
In the meantime, we're all learning more about the painstaking planning that surrounds even the most routine resupply attempts. Retired Army General William Pagonis wrote the book. It's called "Moving Mountains," and it draws on his experiences as the chief supply officer for U.S. troops in the first Gulf War in 1991. He joins us now this hour from Pittsburgh.
General, good to see you.
GEN. WILLIAM PAGONIS, AUTHOR, "MOVING MOUNTAINS": Good afternoon.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about -- As you know, we've talk so much about this platoon and allegedly how a number of soldiers have refused to take on this dangerous mission.
Let's step aside and take a look at convoys, especially fuel missions. And these are the most dangerous types of convoys, correct?
PAGONIS: Yes. But people have to realize there's a movement control center that establishes the rules of the road for all the convoys that are moving in a theater of operation. And whether it's food, fuel, or water or medical supplies, there are people checking those routes to make sure they're not going through dangerous areas or sending out the right security forces to secure them.
PHILLIPS: And in this movement control center, specialists look at the routes. They gather intelligence. They -- they know the last time it was traveled. It's very specific, right?
PAGONIS: Extremely specific. It makes sure you don't try to send the convoy where you know there's a hot area, or if there is an area where they have to go through, you try to have the screening done. And of course, all that is done on a methodical basis, on a continuous basis, because you never want to send troops into harm's way. However, it's a very tedious process that has to be done on a continuous basis.
PHILLIPS: All right. You -- you were in charge of convoys like this. So let's step back, take a look at what's been going on with the 343rd Platoon.
I put together a list of what we talked about earlier, the important things to look at. No. 1, when seeing a situation like this where soldiers don't want to go on the mission, you've got to look at morale, right?
PAGONIS: Absolutely. I mean, there's always all kinds of reasons. And I can't comment since the investigation is going on and I don't have all the facts. But the leadership will look at why are they refusing to go.
Having armored Humvees is not always the answer. It's very expensive to have armored Humvees. They're hard to maintain. You have to decide the space between the vehicles and what kind of cargo is on the vehicles.
But leadership gets involved to make sure the training is done and reinforced and you keep the troops informed of what's going on and what they can expect.
PHILLIPS: All right. You've also have got to look at this platoon. How many times has this platoon been hit during convoys? Also, have they had any casualties, any deaths? And also military police. Do these convoys always have M.P. escorts?
PAGONIS: Well, it depends. This movement control center, if it's a secure route that hasn't had any activity on it, you may not have M.P. escorts. If it's a route that they're concerned about, they will put M.P. escorts.
They also sometimes have helicopters flying over the route to give you some air coverage. So it all depends on the situation.
Of course, I'm not aware whether this platoon has been in contact before. That always causes some concern among the troops. In Vietnam, convoys were ambushed every day and -- and that was just a common problem.
In the Gulf, especially in Iraq, when you're going across the desert, that's one thing. But when you're going through small towns, it's very easy for people to attack a convoy from behind a building or from behind a burned out car.
PHILLIPS: Now, when you were in charge of these men and women that had to do these convoys, did anyone ever come up to you and say, "Sir, this is too dangerous. I can't do this mission"?
PAGONIS: Not to me personally. When I was a young captain in Vietnam I used to have troops come up. I was on a water-borne mission where we moved up and down the rivers of the Mekong Delta. And I'd have troops, since we were ambushed every day, say, "hey, why are we doing this?"
And I'd have to sit down and explain it to them. And then also cover the procedures that we're going to take to protect everybody.
So it's -- it's a human nature thing. When you're sending people into combat, naturally they're going to question it. And that's what the leadership does. They explain to them why they're doing it and what measures you've taken to make it more secure and more safe for them.
PHILLIPS: I'm sure that communication creates confidence, no doubt.
And I know you also said you've got to look at how many hours these soldiers have been working. Were they extremely tired? Did they think they didn't have the energy to go on such a convoy?
But also you brought up a good point about the training, the refresher training. When you're over there for this long period of time, you have to constantly be reminded of how crucial these convoys or how, I guess, these convoys can be of high threat.
PAGONIS: Well, what happens is when you start having convoys and it becomes routine, we sometimes forget to keep that competitive edge, making sure you check all avenues of what's going on. Training and refresher training are always very, very important.
And that's the leadership's responsibility to do that so that the troops have the confidence that what they're doing is going to be solid, that they're going to have the backup needed in case there is a problem.
PHILLIPS: It will be interesting to see how this investigation turns out. General Gus Pagonis, thanks for your time today, sir.
PAGONIS: You're welcome, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, tracking down a terrorist. Will posters like the one you're about to see and a $25 million reward help catch an al Qaeda operative behind Iraq attacks? We're live from the Pentagon.
Who needs the needle? Some other ways you can protect yourself if you can't get the flu shot.
And the presidential election: the voting, the lawsuits, they've already started. Tabulating the troubles later on LIVE FROM.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: So, so, so, so, so, with all the worries about the flu shot shortage, many people are scrambling to get one or find an alternative. Our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, looks at what some communities are doing and the impact antivirals may have.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've all seen the long lines now for the flu vaccine shot. Communities around the country coming up with some creative ways to try and give away some of these flu vaccine shots.
For example, in the township of Bloomfield in New Jersey, they're actually having a lottery. I've never heard of something like this when it comes to giving away flu shots. They're going to have a lottery for 300 of the some 1,000 shots that they have.
People will enter this Thursday and then find out by mail if they win a shot in the arm.
(on camera) Also, prestigious medical institutions getting involved in the prioritization of these flu shot recipients. Talking specifically about the "New England Journal of Medicine" and in this case, talking about pregnant women.
(voice-over) Specifically pointing out that the third trimester has double the risk versus the first and second trimesters. So those women should be more a candidate for these flu shots.
Also the risk increases with age. So a 75-year-old person may be a better candidate than a 70-year-old person.
(on camera) They American Academy of Family Physicians is going to issue their guidelines. That's expected later over the next couple of weeks.
They're pointing out, as well, that there are other ways to deal with the flu if you receive it. Antiviral medication, such as Tamiflu, Relenza, Flumadine and Symmetrel.
(voice-over) These are medications that you take if you develop any signs or symptoms of the flu. You've got to take it within the first couple of days or they really don't work.
And worth pointing out, as well, that the Centers for Disease Control are already stockpiling these anti-viral medications in anticipation that there might be a huge demand for them as the flu season progresses.
(on camera) We'll certainly keep you posted here at CNN.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, digging up bones. Investigators find new clues about who's buried in a mafia dumping ground.
Later on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like them here because they make me wait for my doctor's appointment.
PHILLIPS: Cold comfort. Flu shot shortages inspire a migration north of the border. But will Canada continue to let Americans roll up their sleeves?
GEORGE CARLIN, COMEDIAN: Some of this stuff has gotten really silly.
PHILLIPS: And tomorrow on LIVE FROM, he knows the seven words you can't say on television. Find out what comedian George Carlin will say when he does the LIVE FROM interview.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," our Chicago tour continues. We'll be inside of Union Station tomorrow.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": We're talking to the lieutenant governor, also Erma P. Hall, a character actress from Chicago.
HEMMER: And the movable bridges along the Chicago River. Really great story. Dozens and dozens of bridges that go up and down at only certain times of the year. So -- and some really good pictures to show you, too.
And the political season, too, deep-dish politics. Politics and Chicago are hand in hand. So we'll have that for you as well tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: All that and much more. We'll see you tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Developing story out of Tennessee. This video just in to CNN. It's Dyersburg, Tennessee, actually. You're looking at storm damage.
Heavy rain from a line of strong thunderstorms moving across Tennessee caused a lot of flash flooding and reported some minor injuries. National Weather Service estimating two to four inches of rain had fallen between Monday when the storms first hit and mid- morning today.
The storms also brought strong winds and frequent lightning, we are told. You can see the results here of that storm damage.
School systems in several counties were closed or they're opening up much later because of the flooded roads. Also, reported two minor injuries specifically in this county, in Dyer County including one person hurt when struck by a falling tree. We continue the follow the weather that's going across Tennessee at this hour.
HARRIS: Let's check other news from across America now.
In Queens, New York, two weeks of digging an alleged mafia bone yard has led to two capos of the Bonanno crime family. Preliminary indications based on personal items, including a credit card and an expensive watch. Conclusive DNA results will take weeks.
In Eugene, Oregon, a college man gets a knock on his door and finds a posse of local cops, search and rescue personnel and the civil air patrol? It seems they'd been scrambled by the Air Force Rescue Center in Langley, Virginia. A satellite had picked up an international distress signal coming from Chris Van Rossman's -- you won't believe this -- flat screen TV.
And if you drive an Escalade better check the parking lot. An annual insurance industry survey says the pricey ride is the favored target of U.S. car thieves for the second year in a row. The Nissan Maxima is second on the list of likely to be hot wheels.
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