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Bush Talks Health Care in Pennsylvania; Kerry Speaks out for Government-Funded Stem Cell Research; Boston Beats Bronx

Aired October 21, 2004 - 14:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States in Columbus, Ohio. Excuse me. It's hard to keep track of everybody. He is in Pennsylvania, Downingtown, yes.
He's in Pennsylvania. And meanwhile, we also have with him Dana Bash, who is also in Downingtown, Pennsylvania.

You'll excuse the confusion about geography, Dana. Keeping track of these candidates...

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Believe me, I know how it feels.

O'BRIEN: Do you even know what city you're in half the time?

BASH: No.

O'BRIEN: The president hitting very hard on the issue of health care reform, as well as reform of the legal system today. Familiar themes.

BASH: Familiar themes, Miles. And it's interesting to note, sort of the strategy behind this, you'll remember before the debates we've heard -- you heard the president say over and over again that Senator Kerry is a flip-flopper. Well, after the debates, when they felt that perhaps that wasn't going to work anymore, they shifted to the idea that Senator Kerry is a big government liberal. And Bush aides say that they believe the best way to illustrate that is by looking at the differences between President Bush's ideas for reforming health care and Senator Kerry's. And that's what we've been listening to President Bush try to flesh out during the speech.

The president has really talked a lot about health care over the last week. This particular speech dedicated wholly to his ideas on health care, trying to flesh out some ideas that he has, like expanding health savings accounts, medical liability reform, things like that.

But again, always with the refrain, saying that Senator Kerry, his idea for allowing most people, all people to have health insurance through the government is nothing more than big government, old-style liberalism. So this is something the Bush campaign thinks they have traction on, it's an issue that is very important not only to people here in Pennsylvania, sort of the suburban Philadelphia area, but also really in rural areas all across the country -- Miles. O'BRIEN: Dana, there was some conventional wisdom that this was an area the president had some problems with, with Senator Kerry, and that Senator Kerry would have some strengths, natural strengths on the issue of health care. Has that changed? Are there some new numbers out there that are making the campaign address this issue front and center?

BASH: Well, if you look at how the two candidates fare on health care, it's about the same. Senator Kerry still has a lead against the president on -- on this issue. But again, the campaign feels that they -- that this is the best way for them to help illustrate the idea, the whole sort of broad concept that Senator Kerry, they believe, is a big government liberal because this is the policy, they say, that shows just that.

O'BRIEN: Dana Bash in Pennsylvania. At least I'm fairly certain of that. I hope you are, too. Appreciate it, and keep up the good work there.

Now let's go to Columbus, Ohio. That's where Senator Kerry is continuing to talk to a crowd there. With Senator Kerry is Frank Buckley, who's been listening a little bit to his speech.

The issue of stem cells front and center today. Of course having Dana Reeve there as the introduction provided that opportunity.

Is this an issue that the Kerry campaign feels is high on people's minds or are people thinking about stem cells as they make a decision about who they're going to vote for inside two weeks, Frank?

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kerry campaign, Miles, believes it is one issue, but it helps to make the broader argument that Senator Kerry is the one who's forward looking. It helps them to make the case that President Bush makes decisions on ideological grounds rather than scientific grounds, and that's part of the point of what they're trying to do today.

Senator Kerry continuing his speech today. As you said, Dana Reeve introducing Senator Kerry. The senator appearing to be moved by that introduction.

He was friends with Chris Reeve. The two of them together advocates for additional stem cell research. This was her first public appearance since his sudden death just over a week ago. Let's let our viewers see a portion of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA REEVE, CHRISTOPHER REEVE'S WIFE: ... died, the world lost a truly inspirational leader. I lost my best friend.

I've been grieving privately the past week and a half. I've been surrounded by close friends and family, the way it should be. And thank god I have plenty of them. I've been trying to help the children start to piece together a life without their dad, and my inclination would be frankly to remain private for a good long while. But I came here today in support of John Kerry because this is so important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: And Senator Kerry saying that Dana Reeve showed extraordinary grace by appearing here. She made the point it was her idea to come, not the Kerry campaign's idea.

Senator Kerry again critical of President Bush on this issue. At the same time, saying that he would expand stem cell research and expand federal funding. The Bush campaign has said consistently on this issue that President Bush was the first president ever to actually approve federal funding for stem cell research.

Now, earlier today, Senator Kerry tried to appeal to voters here in Ohio and in other swing states, battleground states in another way by going goose hunting. Many people here in the swing states own guns. Here in Ohio, for example, some one million people have guns in their homes. Many of them are hunters.

This was an attempt to reassure voters that Kerry understands their passion, has been a lifelong hunter himself. To give you an idea of some numbers and what it means politically, you just look at the 2000 exit polling from the 2000 election.

Forty-six percent of the voters in that election had a gun owner in the household. Of those, 57 percent went for President Bush. Only 39 percent went for Al Gore in that election. So, Miles, the Kerry campaign trying to do its best to turn those numbers around this year, especially in this all-important battleground state of Ohio -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, Frank, I can understand the strategy of going after those folks that might be sitting on the fence here, but it seems to me that the real second amendment types, the NRA supporters, have already made their decision.

BUCKLEY: Well, and the Bush campaign would say that, in fact, Senator Kerry got an "F" from the NRA in its ratings. And I think that the Kerry folks would actually concede that. That look, the people who are hard core, if you will, about guns are not going to be voting for John Kerry just on this issue alone.

But it's really those swing voters, the moderates, the independents, people who have a gun, who use it, who go hunting but who maybe are on the fence about who to vote for. This is another way to reassure them to get to them and say, "Look, Senator Kerry is more like you than you think. He understands this part of your life and he's not going to take away your gun."

O'BRIEN: Frank Buckley in Columbus, Ohio. At least we're fairly certain of that as well. Thank you very much. Got a lot of travels ahead in the days ahead. Keep up the good work.

Let's continue our discussion of politics. We're talking about guns. We're talking about health care. We're talking about trial lawyers, stem cell research and fear and loathing in general. Let's bring in former Republican congressman, Bob Barr, who is now a CNN contributor. And from New York, Democratic strategist Morris Reid.

Gentlemen, good to have you both with us. I hope you were able to hear what has just preceded us. Nod if you did, just to make sure.

OK, good.

I'm curious, Bob Barr, when the president gets into the subject of health care, isn't that Kerry territory?

BOB BARR (R), FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I think traditional wisdom might indicate that it is, but the -- the angle that the president is playing here is not so much health care as it is medical malpractice reform, legal reform, generally, and government regulation. And I think on those issues these clearly are matters on which there is room for the president or Senator Kerry to pull people away, and I think the president is making a -- much more of a realistic play than is -- that in Senator Kerry going hunting.

Senator Kerry is not going to get the votes of second amendment enthusiasts and true hunters. One wonders why his campaign people have him essentially wasting time doing that. President Bush, on the other hand, even though health care as a substantive issue may be Kerry territory, he clearly has room there to pull votes away on the specific issues that he's talking about.

O'BRIEN: And Morris, as the president casts the health care issue as an issue really he gets to trial lawyers fairly quickly, it's a none-too-subtle statement about who the number two person is on the Democratic ticket. I'm curious, do you agree, first of all, with Bob, when he says for John Kerry to hunt and have a gun, he's wasting his time?

MORRIS REID, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think there's better use of his time. But as long as he's in a swing state, John Kerry is not doing something that's unusual. He is a hunter, he is a sportsman. But I would agree that if I was advising...

O'BRIEN: Well, but no. He wouldn't plan a hunting trip in the middle of a campaign if it wasn't for a reason, right?

REID: He may go hunting. If he wasn't campaigning, he may go hunting. It may not be in Ohio.

He is a sportsman. I think the fact is that he's in Ohio is a good use of his time to be in Ohio. Going sports hunting right now, I'm not for sure, but he's in Ohio, so I think that's important to be there.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about the general issue of fear and loathing in the campaigns. Fear, the fear factor is playing very hot and heavy, really on both campaigns.

The Bush campaign out with some commercials saying, you know, do you really trust John Kerry and those liberals with your future? The vice president talking about the possibility of weapons of mass destruction in our cities.

Of course, this isn't new. Remember, you might -- you guys remember the 1964 campaign, the famous daisy commercial. This was used by the Lyndon Johnson campaign against Barry Goldwater in the waning days of the campaign. I think it only ran once, but we had a little bit of tape of it.

But imagine that, if you will, the little girl pulling the daisies. It leads to some sort of nuclear explosion. So this is not a new thing. There you go, the famous daisy spot.

Bob Barr, using fear obviously is not new. But it sort of took a hiatus until 9/11, didn't it? What's different this time around, if anything?

BARR: Well, what's different this time around is the unashamed way both candidates, both parties, both campaigns are playing on fear. I think from a substantive standpoint it's very damaging to the psyche of America to have our presidents basically scaring people, to be calling on Americans to make decisions, important policy decisions based on fear.

America is a much stronger or at least used to be a much stronger nation than that. We're a nation unafraid to take risks. That's how we became the great nation that we are. And we now seem to be entering an era where risk taking has become risk aversion, unless it involves invading a foreign country, of course.

And I think that we need people to stand up and tell both candidates, both campaigns, you know, this is beneath us, this is beneath you. Let's take the high road, not the low road of scaring people into voting for one side or the other.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, it seems to me that John Kerry tried to do that in that "New Yorker" interview, where he referred to terrorism as something akin to a nuisance, a matter for law enforcement. And he was widely criticized for saying that.

Why was he criticized, do you suppose? Were those -- was that a poor choice of words, and did that fall flat among voters, saying that terrorism is a nuisance?

REID: It was a terrible choice of words. And I think if he had an opportunity to go back he would have certainly not used it.

Fear comes in a variety of different shapes. If you remember back when George -- George Bush's father ran and the Willie Horton situation, that was another thing like fear. So it's not -- you know, politics have always had fear. It's not a very aspirational business anymore.

And until fear and tearing down your opponent stops moving your numbers in a direction that they want, people are going to continue to use it. People don't like to say it, but to go negative and to use fear moves your numbers. So until the American people really steps up to the plate and tells them we've had -- enough is enough, both sides will continue to use it.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, Bob Barr, thank you for your patience today. We appreciate you waiting around...

BARR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: and listening to those speeches before we got to you. And we'll see you soon.

REID: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: All right.

CNN's "PAULA ZAHN NOW" will hold a town hall meeting in Springfield. That's Ohio, Clark County to be specific. You can watch it at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

We're going to take a break. When we come back, the Red Sox win. Has hell frozen over?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Special thanks to the CNN orchestra for that.

From swing votes to the swing of the bat, the Boston Red Sox make history in the house that Ruth built. The Red Sox beat the Yanks at home last night, game seven of the ALCS. Boston the first team ever to win a series after being down 3-0.

And now Boston fans, of course, clamoring for World Series tickets. Reporter Steve Cooper with our affiliate, WHDH, in Boston has the story from Fenway.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE COOPER, REPORTER, WHDH: Red Sox nation in seventh heaven after the Red Sox beat the Yankees to head on into the World Series. A look at fans this morning, they're wrapped around Fenway Park, trying to get tickets to game one of the World Series, which is set for Saturday night here at Fenway Park.

Now, the team arrived here at about 4:00 this morning from the Bronx. The owners were greeted by hundreds of fans who lined the streets, along with all the players, who were high-fiving the fans.

Speaking of the fans, as many as 60,000 to 80,000 of them streamed into the streets after this victory and there were some problems. Boston police telling us 16 people were injured in some of the over-the-top celebrating. We're also told as many as eight people have been arrested for things like disorderly conduct.

But the celebrating continues here in Boston today. A weary Boston, by the way.

Tickets go on sale later on today, and these people aren't about to miss a chance to see history in the making.

From Fenway Park, I'm Steve Cooper. Now back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The Red Sox are playing for their first World Series victory since 1918. Here's how ecstatic Boston fans got the news from their morning paper.

"The Boston Herald" proclaiming "They Did It. Sox crush Yanks, head to World Series." Of course, a couple hundred miles to the South and West a little different story. They weren't so ecstatic at "The New York Post."

One of them reads "Damned Yankees." That's "The Post." And then, of course, the other one is "What a Choke!"

On the backside of the paper, "Daily News," a similar headline: "The Choke's On Us." And the sports page reads "Hell Freezes Over."

We'll be watching the other game seven tonight to see who will play the Sox in the series. The Cardinals take on the Astros in St. Louis, the deciding game of the National League championship series.

Forty-two-year-old Roger Clemens, former Yankee, former Red Sox, will take the mound for Houston tonight. You can see a political- style matchup. If the Astros win, the president from Texas; John Kerry from Massachusetts, of course.

So what's it like to live through a real life nightmare?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. JOHN KROGH, SURVIVED PLANE CRASH: Big-time crash occurred as the plane went into the trees and started to come apart.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Catastrophe in the air. A plane crash survivor tells his chilling story.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler in New York. A short time ago we saw President Bush in Downingtown, Pennsylvania. Senator Kerry in Columbus, Ohio. These little trips don't come cheap. I'll have all the details when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Still to come on LIVE FROM, why Wal-Mart is saying no to Jon Stewart's new book. First a look how Philadelphia is trying to provide free broadband internet access to the entire city.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired October 21, 2004 - 14:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States in Columbus, Ohio. Excuse me. It's hard to keep track of everybody. He is in Pennsylvania, Downingtown, yes.
He's in Pennsylvania. And meanwhile, we also have with him Dana Bash, who is also in Downingtown, Pennsylvania.

You'll excuse the confusion about geography, Dana. Keeping track of these candidates...

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Believe me, I know how it feels.

O'BRIEN: Do you even know what city you're in half the time?

BASH: No.

O'BRIEN: The president hitting very hard on the issue of health care reform, as well as reform of the legal system today. Familiar themes.

BASH: Familiar themes, Miles. And it's interesting to note, sort of the strategy behind this, you'll remember before the debates we've heard -- you heard the president say over and over again that Senator Kerry is a flip-flopper. Well, after the debates, when they felt that perhaps that wasn't going to work anymore, they shifted to the idea that Senator Kerry is a big government liberal. And Bush aides say that they believe the best way to illustrate that is by looking at the differences between President Bush's ideas for reforming health care and Senator Kerry's. And that's what we've been listening to President Bush try to flesh out during the speech.

The president has really talked a lot about health care over the last week. This particular speech dedicated wholly to his ideas on health care, trying to flesh out some ideas that he has, like expanding health savings accounts, medical liability reform, things like that.

But again, always with the refrain, saying that Senator Kerry, his idea for allowing most people, all people to have health insurance through the government is nothing more than big government, old-style liberalism. So this is something the Bush campaign thinks they have traction on, it's an issue that is very important not only to people here in Pennsylvania, sort of the suburban Philadelphia area, but also really in rural areas all across the country -- Miles. O'BRIEN: Dana, there was some conventional wisdom that this was an area the president had some problems with, with Senator Kerry, and that Senator Kerry would have some strengths, natural strengths on the issue of health care. Has that changed? Are there some new numbers out there that are making the campaign address this issue front and center?

BASH: Well, if you look at how the two candidates fare on health care, it's about the same. Senator Kerry still has a lead against the president on -- on this issue. But again, the campaign feels that they -- that this is the best way for them to help illustrate the idea, the whole sort of broad concept that Senator Kerry, they believe, is a big government liberal because this is the policy, they say, that shows just that.

O'BRIEN: Dana Bash in Pennsylvania. At least I'm fairly certain of that. I hope you are, too. Appreciate it, and keep up the good work there.

Now let's go to Columbus, Ohio. That's where Senator Kerry is continuing to talk to a crowd there. With Senator Kerry is Frank Buckley, who's been listening a little bit to his speech.

The issue of stem cells front and center today. Of course having Dana Reeve there as the introduction provided that opportunity.

Is this an issue that the Kerry campaign feels is high on people's minds or are people thinking about stem cells as they make a decision about who they're going to vote for inside two weeks, Frank?

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kerry campaign, Miles, believes it is one issue, but it helps to make the broader argument that Senator Kerry is the one who's forward looking. It helps them to make the case that President Bush makes decisions on ideological grounds rather than scientific grounds, and that's part of the point of what they're trying to do today.

Senator Kerry continuing his speech today. As you said, Dana Reeve introducing Senator Kerry. The senator appearing to be moved by that introduction.

He was friends with Chris Reeve. The two of them together advocates for additional stem cell research. This was her first public appearance since his sudden death just over a week ago. Let's let our viewers see a portion of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA REEVE, CHRISTOPHER REEVE'S WIFE: ... died, the world lost a truly inspirational leader. I lost my best friend.

I've been grieving privately the past week and a half. I've been surrounded by close friends and family, the way it should be. And thank god I have plenty of them. I've been trying to help the children start to piece together a life without their dad, and my inclination would be frankly to remain private for a good long while. But I came here today in support of John Kerry because this is so important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: And Senator Kerry saying that Dana Reeve showed extraordinary grace by appearing here. She made the point it was her idea to come, not the Kerry campaign's idea.

Senator Kerry again critical of President Bush on this issue. At the same time, saying that he would expand stem cell research and expand federal funding. The Bush campaign has said consistently on this issue that President Bush was the first president ever to actually approve federal funding for stem cell research.

Now, earlier today, Senator Kerry tried to appeal to voters here in Ohio and in other swing states, battleground states in another way by going goose hunting. Many people here in the swing states own guns. Here in Ohio, for example, some one million people have guns in their homes. Many of them are hunters.

This was an attempt to reassure voters that Kerry understands their passion, has been a lifelong hunter himself. To give you an idea of some numbers and what it means politically, you just look at the 2000 exit polling from the 2000 election.

Forty-six percent of the voters in that election had a gun owner in the household. Of those, 57 percent went for President Bush. Only 39 percent went for Al Gore in that election. So, Miles, the Kerry campaign trying to do its best to turn those numbers around this year, especially in this all-important battleground state of Ohio -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, Frank, I can understand the strategy of going after those folks that might be sitting on the fence here, but it seems to me that the real second amendment types, the NRA supporters, have already made their decision.

BUCKLEY: Well, and the Bush campaign would say that, in fact, Senator Kerry got an "F" from the NRA in its ratings. And I think that the Kerry folks would actually concede that. That look, the people who are hard core, if you will, about guns are not going to be voting for John Kerry just on this issue alone.

But it's really those swing voters, the moderates, the independents, people who have a gun, who use it, who go hunting but who maybe are on the fence about who to vote for. This is another way to reassure them to get to them and say, "Look, Senator Kerry is more like you than you think. He understands this part of your life and he's not going to take away your gun."

O'BRIEN: Frank Buckley in Columbus, Ohio. At least we're fairly certain of that as well. Thank you very much. Got a lot of travels ahead in the days ahead. Keep up the good work.

Let's continue our discussion of politics. We're talking about guns. We're talking about health care. We're talking about trial lawyers, stem cell research and fear and loathing in general. Let's bring in former Republican congressman, Bob Barr, who is now a CNN contributor. And from New York, Democratic strategist Morris Reid.

Gentlemen, good to have you both with us. I hope you were able to hear what has just preceded us. Nod if you did, just to make sure.

OK, good.

I'm curious, Bob Barr, when the president gets into the subject of health care, isn't that Kerry territory?

BOB BARR (R), FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I think traditional wisdom might indicate that it is, but the -- the angle that the president is playing here is not so much health care as it is medical malpractice reform, legal reform, generally, and government regulation. And I think on those issues these clearly are matters on which there is room for the president or Senator Kerry to pull people away, and I think the president is making a -- much more of a realistic play than is -- that in Senator Kerry going hunting.

Senator Kerry is not going to get the votes of second amendment enthusiasts and true hunters. One wonders why his campaign people have him essentially wasting time doing that. President Bush, on the other hand, even though health care as a substantive issue may be Kerry territory, he clearly has room there to pull votes away on the specific issues that he's talking about.

O'BRIEN: And Morris, as the president casts the health care issue as an issue really he gets to trial lawyers fairly quickly, it's a none-too-subtle statement about who the number two person is on the Democratic ticket. I'm curious, do you agree, first of all, with Bob, when he says for John Kerry to hunt and have a gun, he's wasting his time?

MORRIS REID, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think there's better use of his time. But as long as he's in a swing state, John Kerry is not doing something that's unusual. He is a hunter, he is a sportsman. But I would agree that if I was advising...

O'BRIEN: Well, but no. He wouldn't plan a hunting trip in the middle of a campaign if it wasn't for a reason, right?

REID: He may go hunting. If he wasn't campaigning, he may go hunting. It may not be in Ohio.

He is a sportsman. I think the fact is that he's in Ohio is a good use of his time to be in Ohio. Going sports hunting right now, I'm not for sure, but he's in Ohio, so I think that's important to be there.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about the general issue of fear and loathing in the campaigns. Fear, the fear factor is playing very hot and heavy, really on both campaigns.

The Bush campaign out with some commercials saying, you know, do you really trust John Kerry and those liberals with your future? The vice president talking about the possibility of weapons of mass destruction in our cities.

Of course, this isn't new. Remember, you might -- you guys remember the 1964 campaign, the famous daisy commercial. This was used by the Lyndon Johnson campaign against Barry Goldwater in the waning days of the campaign. I think it only ran once, but we had a little bit of tape of it.

But imagine that, if you will, the little girl pulling the daisies. It leads to some sort of nuclear explosion. So this is not a new thing. There you go, the famous daisy spot.

Bob Barr, using fear obviously is not new. But it sort of took a hiatus until 9/11, didn't it? What's different this time around, if anything?

BARR: Well, what's different this time around is the unashamed way both candidates, both parties, both campaigns are playing on fear. I think from a substantive standpoint it's very damaging to the psyche of America to have our presidents basically scaring people, to be calling on Americans to make decisions, important policy decisions based on fear.

America is a much stronger or at least used to be a much stronger nation than that. We're a nation unafraid to take risks. That's how we became the great nation that we are. And we now seem to be entering an era where risk taking has become risk aversion, unless it involves invading a foreign country, of course.

And I think that we need people to stand up and tell both candidates, both campaigns, you know, this is beneath us, this is beneath you. Let's take the high road, not the low road of scaring people into voting for one side or the other.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, it seems to me that John Kerry tried to do that in that "New Yorker" interview, where he referred to terrorism as something akin to a nuisance, a matter for law enforcement. And he was widely criticized for saying that.

Why was he criticized, do you suppose? Were those -- was that a poor choice of words, and did that fall flat among voters, saying that terrorism is a nuisance?

REID: It was a terrible choice of words. And I think if he had an opportunity to go back he would have certainly not used it.

Fear comes in a variety of different shapes. If you remember back when George -- George Bush's father ran and the Willie Horton situation, that was another thing like fear. So it's not -- you know, politics have always had fear. It's not a very aspirational business anymore.

And until fear and tearing down your opponent stops moving your numbers in a direction that they want, people are going to continue to use it. People don't like to say it, but to go negative and to use fear moves your numbers. So until the American people really steps up to the plate and tells them we've had -- enough is enough, both sides will continue to use it.

O'BRIEN: Morris Reid, Bob Barr, thank you for your patience today. We appreciate you waiting around...

BARR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: and listening to those speeches before we got to you. And we'll see you soon.

REID: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: All right.

CNN's "PAULA ZAHN NOW" will hold a town hall meeting in Springfield. That's Ohio, Clark County to be specific. You can watch it at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

We're going to take a break. When we come back, the Red Sox win. Has hell frozen over?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Special thanks to the CNN orchestra for that.

From swing votes to the swing of the bat, the Boston Red Sox make history in the house that Ruth built. The Red Sox beat the Yanks at home last night, game seven of the ALCS. Boston the first team ever to win a series after being down 3-0.

And now Boston fans, of course, clamoring for World Series tickets. Reporter Steve Cooper with our affiliate, WHDH, in Boston has the story from Fenway.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE COOPER, REPORTER, WHDH: Red Sox nation in seventh heaven after the Red Sox beat the Yankees to head on into the World Series. A look at fans this morning, they're wrapped around Fenway Park, trying to get tickets to game one of the World Series, which is set for Saturday night here at Fenway Park.

Now, the team arrived here at about 4:00 this morning from the Bronx. The owners were greeted by hundreds of fans who lined the streets, along with all the players, who were high-fiving the fans.

Speaking of the fans, as many as 60,000 to 80,000 of them streamed into the streets after this victory and there were some problems. Boston police telling us 16 people were injured in some of the over-the-top celebrating. We're also told as many as eight people have been arrested for things like disorderly conduct.

But the celebrating continues here in Boston today. A weary Boston, by the way.

Tickets go on sale later on today, and these people aren't about to miss a chance to see history in the making.

From Fenway Park, I'm Steve Cooper. Now back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The Red Sox are playing for their first World Series victory since 1918. Here's how ecstatic Boston fans got the news from their morning paper.

"The Boston Herald" proclaiming "They Did It. Sox crush Yanks, head to World Series." Of course, a couple hundred miles to the South and West a little different story. They weren't so ecstatic at "The New York Post."

One of them reads "Damned Yankees." That's "The Post." And then, of course, the other one is "What a Choke!"

On the backside of the paper, "Daily News," a similar headline: "The Choke's On Us." And the sports page reads "Hell Freezes Over."

We'll be watching the other game seven tonight to see who will play the Sox in the series. The Cardinals take on the Astros in St. Louis, the deciding game of the National League championship series.

Forty-two-year-old Roger Clemens, former Yankee, former Red Sox, will take the mound for Houston tonight. You can see a political- style matchup. If the Astros win, the president from Texas; John Kerry from Massachusetts, of course.

So what's it like to live through a real life nightmare?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. JOHN KROGH, SURVIVED PLANE CRASH: Big-time crash occurred as the plane went into the trees and started to come apart.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Catastrophe in the air. A plane crash survivor tells his chilling story.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler in New York. A short time ago we saw President Bush in Downingtown, Pennsylvania. Senator Kerry in Columbus, Ohio. These little trips don't come cheap. I'll have all the details when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.

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Still to come on LIVE FROM, why Wal-Mart is saying no to Jon Stewart's new book. First a look how Philadelphia is trying to provide free broadband internet access to the entire city.

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