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Chief Justice William Rehnquist Being Treated for Cancer; Explosives: MIA in Iraq; Clinton Campaigns for Kerry
Aired October 25, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with a health crisis for William Rehnquist. As CNN told you first, the chief justice of the United States, the second oldest man ever to hold that position, is a cancer patient today at Bethesda Naval Hospital, recovering from a tracheotomy on Saturday. We get the latest from CNN Justice correspondent Kelli Arena in Washington.
Hello, Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Hi there.
Well, as you said, the Supreme Court did put out an official statements say the chief justice underwent a tracheotomy on Saturday. That after being diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Now, no prognosis from his medical team or the court is being offered at this time, but the official word is that he'll be back on the bench November 1st, when the court reconvenes.
Now, Rehnquist just turned 80 years old, celebrated a big party with some of his clerks. Beside some back problems and a fall just about two years ago, he's been fairly healthy.
He's been on the bench since 1972, and he's been chief justice for the past 18 years. Now, he was catapulted into the public consciousness when he preside over the impeachment of then-president Bill Clinton and then again when he presided over the controversial Bush versus Gore decision just four years ago.
Now, news of his illness was very tightly held. One Supreme Court source tells CNN that at least one justice didn't even know about it until the news broke here on CNN.
And the fact that this came out just one week before the election is expected to put the possibility of a Supreme Court vacancy front and center. One analyst referred to it as the ultimate October surprise -- Tony.
HARRIS: And Kelli, what are you hearing privately about all this?
ARENA: Well, as you know, the official word is all is well, he'll be back November 1st. But very privately, sources are telling us that this is far more serious than the public statement will allow.
Everyone that we have spoken to describes the chief justice as a very proud and stubborn man, saying that if it is humanly possible, he will be on that bench, even if it is not exactly what his medical team is suggesting. Of course, that day, November 1st, just one day before the election, so a very pivotal time here.
But we are hearing that this is -- this is just far more serious. But I have to tell you that this is one very closed-mouth group of people. The Supreme Court notorious for its code of silence. We have been advised by many court watchers that no one will deviate from that official script for sure.
HARRIS: I know you'll be watching this very closely for us, Kelli. Kelli Arena, thank you.
ARENA: You're welcome.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now to that alphabet soup and super explosives unaccounted for in Iraq. As we've been reporting, the U.N.'s nuclear investigators sounding alarms over some 380 tons of non-nuclear ordinance, HMX, RDX, PETN that disappeared from a complex south of Baghdad. It's a site the U.N. was watching before the war and U.S. troops were supposed to be guarding after the war.
CNN's Barbara Starr following developments now from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, a lot of confusing details still emerging about this entire story. The Pentagon has asked troops in Iraq and the Iraqi Survey Group, which is affiliated, of course -- of course, with the CIA, to take over this entire situation.
This started about October 10, when the Iraqi interim government wrote to the IAEA in Vienna, saying that 380 tons of high explosives had disappeared from a site south of Baghdad, a place called Al Qaqaa, a very well-known weapons storage site under the regime of Saddam Hussein. About five days later, October 15, the IAEA tells the Pentagon about it -- the entire Bush administration, actually, and then the Pentagon orders this review. But what exactly are we talking about?
Well, according to sources here at the Pentagon, the IAEA had information as far back as January '03, before the war began, that there was a stockpile of high explosives at this site. After the war, after major combat ended, U.S. soldiers went to this area, they searched any number of bunkers and buildings, they found some explosives, but nothing that indicated this particular type of high explosive. That was roughly April '03.
Now fast-forward to October '04. And now the IAEA and the Pentagon is hearing that this 380-ton stockpile appears to be missing. No one knows where it, no one knows who is in charge of it and who's controlling it. Of course, the fear is it that it may have fallen into the hands of insurgents.
Now, there had been a lot of looting at these weapons storage places around Iraq. This material is of particular concern because of what it can do. In commercial uses, it is used for demolishing buildings. It's very powerful. In military uses, of course, it's for producing -- used in production of warheads on missiles and also for detonators for nuclear weapons. But again, the concern is now that it could be in the hands of insurgents.
But was it looted out of this facility? That's what people are trying to find out, because for anybody to move 380 tons of material, that would be quite an operation, one that would most likely be noticed. So this story hearkens back to basically springtime of '03 and what was going on in Iraq back then -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. So just to clarify -- I'm a little bit confused -- forgive me, Barbara -- did the U.S. military after the invasion know that the explosives were still there? And was it being guarded, you know, in the past couple months?
STARR: Well, I have to tell you, this is what Pentagon officials tell us they are trying to sort out today. Soldiers went there. They inspected that area, we are told, a few dozen times.
They went through bunkers, buildings, any number of facilities on the site which is quite large. They never found, we are told, the kinds of high explosives that have been raised now as a matter of concern so many months later.
So now the real question appears to be did the Iraq Survey Group know from the IAEA's information back in January '03, that they believe this material was there, and that it had gone missing? Because the real question, of course, Kyra, is how now in October '04 could people first discuss this magnitude of weapons inventory had gone missing? Wouldn't somebody have noticed before this?
So now people are going, government people are going to the Iraq Survey Group, trying to find out if they had more information about this facility, what they might have known, and perhaps whether they simply didn't want to make it public because of the security concerns. And now it's been made public by the new Iraqi government. All pretty confusing, Kyra, we're the first to admit. All a story that's still unfolding.
PHILLIPS: Well, you did a great job at sorting it out. Barbara Starr, thank you so much -- Tony.
HARRIS: Well, the world has more than ample evidence of the killing power of the compounds now unaccounted for somewhere in the world. Now, joining us now to outline the potential threats and perpetrators is international security expert Jim Walsh of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.
And good to talk to you.
JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, Tony.
HARRIS: Well, listening to Barbara Starr's report, do you now have any question as to whether or not these materials were there, and as to when they might have disappeared?
WALSH: Well, I thought the key phrase in Barbara's report was that in the spring of 2003, that the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA, believed that there were 380 tons of high explosive there. Now, the normal thing to do would have been to allow IAEA back into Iraq once the U.S. took control so that IAEA could verify that and then begin to protect it or move it out of the country.
Now, at the time, the U.S. government did not want to let IAEA in to those facilities. The IAEA requested it. I spoke to the director general, ElBaradei, myself. He had sent a letter, waited 40 days and never got a response. So somewhere in the window before the start of the war and probably in those first early months, I think that material was there and probably disappeared.
HARRIS: OK. This -- from the reporting we've done on it this morning and the work that Kyra did on it last hour, this sounds and feels like a really big deal. What do you think about it, Jim?
WALSH: Oh, yes, yes. This is a big deal. This is both disturbing and mind-boggling.
We're talking about military grade explosives. You know there are all sorts of explosives. There's TNT, there's all sorts of different things.
These are military-grade explosives. That means that they have a particularly strong impact. Small amounts can do a lot of damage. And they are so important, in fact, that they are the explosives you use if you want to try to kick-start a nuclear weapon.
When you have nuclear weapon, you have nuclear materials. But to get that chain reaction going, you surround it with special high explosive. That's what this high explosive is. So whether the looters or the insurgents use it for terrorist attacks, or whether it ends up in the hands of people who might want to make nuclear weapons, far even worse, it's bad news all around.
HARRIS: Any thoughts on who might be responsible for this?
WALSH: Well, I think Barbara raised a good question. If all the material were taken at one time, that is to say, all 380 tons at a time, that would point to an organized group of insurgents. It's just as possible that looters and criminals sort of took away, carted away some at a time over a longer period of time. But even if the looters have it, or the criminals have it, they can turn around and sell it to the insurgents. So either story is a bad one as far as the U.S. is concerned.
HARRIS: And Jim, bottom line, this thing for us, it was our responsible, the coalition forces' responsibility to safeguard this depot.
WALSH: That is the bottom line. We knew about it, we didn't act on it. And there's a terrible irony here. This war, we supposedly executed this war because we were concerned about mass destruction and terrorists. And yet the way we carried out the war, we created new opportunities for terrorists to get these powerful weapons. It's the exact opposite of what we said we were going to do. So I think it could be a terrible, terrible mistake.
HARRIS: Jim Walsh at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Jim, good to talk to you. Thank you.
WALSH: Thank you, Tony.
PHILLIPS: In other news out of Iraq today, no respite from deadly explosions in Baghdad. At least three civilians and a U.S. soldier are dead. Three Australian soldiers wounded in a series of attacks across the city. And in Mosul today, a pair of suicide car bombings killed at least three Iraqis and wounded several government workers.
And the government continues to investigate the slaughter of more than 40 newly-trained Iraqi soldiers over the weekend. The terror group of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has claimed responsibility for the single deadliest insurgent ambush since the invasion.
Eight days and counting. That's all the time the presidential candidates have to make an impression on voters before they head to the polls. The candidates are stumping hard in showdown states.
John Kerry is bringing out a Democratic big gun. Former President Clinton is campaigning in Pennsylvania with the senator today.
CNN's Frank Buckley joining us now live from Philly.
It was quite a show, Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really was, Kyra. This is the first time that Bill Clinton has appeared at a joint rally for the Kerry campaign with John Kerry. They have had appearances before, but this is their first campaign rally, and, as you said, it was quite an event here.
Many, many people on hand to see the two appearing together on Martin Luther King Boulevard here in downtown Philadelphia. President Clinton, of course, recovering from quadruple bypass surgery. The Kerry campaign has wanted him to come out, but his doctors haven't given the green light, we're told, until now.
President Clinton appeared fit and energetic. The former president saying, while he is known as the "comeback kid," Senator Kerry was going to make America the "comeback country." Former President Clinton then launching into a critique of the Bush administration, comparing the economic policies of the Bush administration and the numbers of the Bush administration to the numbers and policies of the Clinton administration, at one point saying that the budget surplus that was created during the Clinton years became a massive budget deficit under President Bush in part because of the tax cut that went to wealthy Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Leaving the burden of the deficit for my tax cut on the children of this country, that's their plan. John Kerry's got a better plan.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: He wants to repeal the tax cuts for those of us who have been fortunate enough to make a lot of money. He wants to finally give us a chance to make a contribution to America's economic recovery and to the fight against terrorism.
It's time. Most of us without regard to party want our chance to contribute to our country's welfare and our future. And we don't want our children and our grandchildren paying for the cost of our tax cuts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: The Kerry campaign hoping that form President Clinton will energize the Democratic base and also remind others of the prosperous times during the 1990s.
Here's what Senator Kerry had to say about President Clinton's appearance here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I asked the president before we came out here, I said, "Mr. President, can you tell me anything that you have in common with George W. Bush?" And he thought for a moment, and he said, "In eight days and 12 hours we will both be former presidents."
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: And now from here Senator Kerry will continue with his campaign this evening in Michigan and Wisconsin. Tomorrow, heading to Nevada.
And President Clinton will stay on the campaign trail later today. He will appear this evening in south Florida, and also appearing in a rally there tomorrow as well -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Frank Buckley live from Philly. Thanks so much -- Tony.
HARRIS: President Bush, meanwhile, is in the swing state of Colorado. He's showing a slight lead there in some recent polls. The president and first lady Laura Bush arrived in Greeley earlier today for a rally. Mr. Bush spoke about the war on terror and attacked John Kerry on his anti-war message. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The senator calls America's missions in Iraq a mistake, a diversion, a colossal error. And then he says he's the right man to win the war? You cannot win a war you do not believe in fighting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The president also had a big gun campaigning by his side. Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor, gave support for the president's war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We can't take a chance going back to where we were before September 11, 2001, with someone who can't seem to make up his mind whether the terrorism is serious or a nuisance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: President Bush will head to Iowa later today, and then on to Wisconsin.
A plane crash leaves NASCAR racers and fans stunned. How it might affect one of the most powerful teams in car racing just ahead.
And staying ahead of your heating bills this winter. Will it cost you a lot more or less to heat your home?
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kimberly Osias live in Redwood City. The stakes are high in the double murder trial of Scott Peterson. The question is now whether the lead defense attorney, Mark Geragos, can turn things around after the last witness floundered on the stand.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Scott Peterson celebrated his birthday in jail over the weekend. Ironically, the age of Peterson's unborn son is the focus of testimony in his murder trial. The defense continues building its case today.
CNN's Kimberly Osias joins us live with details from Redwood City, California -- Kimberly.
OSIAS: Hello, Kyra.
Well, the second week of defense testimony began much like last week did, in closed-door evidentiary hearings. This one was a lot longer, in fact, than was anticipated.
The jurors were actually called an hour late to start, but they almost started about two hours late. Judge Alfred Delucchi, though, promised jurors that things would wrap up as scheduled, with closing arguments on the 1st and the 2nd, Election Day, and then deliberations to begin thereafter.
On the stand right now is lead investigator with the Modesto Police Department Craig Grogan, talking about the search warrants of the couple's Covina Avenue home. Also expected later today are forensic experts to talk about the time of death.
The big issue now is whether Mark Geragos will really be able to recover after his last witness, Dr. Charles March, an obstetrician- gynecologist, if he will be able to recover after he took the stand. Now, this gentleman was very, very strong in the morning, giving testimony to the fact that the fetus could not have been born before December 29. That is five days after Laci Peterson went missing and Scott Peterson was under close police scrutiny. That would have really vindicated Scott, and his family was looking forward to that initially.
Now, the afternoon, very, very opposed testimony. He seemed to really flounder on the stand. In fact, saying, "Can you cut me some slack here?" So really all eyes are on Mark Geragos and this witness and where things will go from here.
There are big discussions on both sides right now about the jury instructions, how they will proceed, and whether or not they will be given the option of second-degree murder in addition to first-degree murder. Those instructions will be given after closing arguments next week -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Kimberly Osias, live from Redwood City. Thanks -- Tony.
HARRIS: Trapped children become victims of a raging apartment fire in Ohio. That story tops our look at news "Across America."
Seven children from six months to seven years old were killed in the weekend fire. Firefighters in Toledo say they're not sure adults were inside when the blaze broke out. Officials haven't determined how the fire started.
With the nation's flu supply dangerously low, Illinois is turning to help from Britain. Governor Rod Blagojevich is seeking federal approval to buy flu vaccinations from British wholesalers. He wants at least 30,000 doses for nursing home residents.
And taking a bite out of crime. An FBI report finds violent crime is decreasing. The FBI's annual uniform crime report said violent crime such as manslaughter, rape and robbery dropped 3 percent last year. The only violent crime to increase was murder.
PHILLIPS: Well, musical miscue. Kind of like my miscue right there. Why Ashlee Simpson's performance is having some question whether "Live" should be taken out of "Saturday Night."
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler, and I am live from the New York Sock Exchange with a new warning about cyber safety. Details when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, the world of motor sports is mourning the loss of all 10 people on board a plane owned by a major NASCAR racing organization. The victims were relatives and friend of Rick Hendrick, owner of Hendrick Motorsports. The plane went down in heavy fog in Martinsville, Virginia, site of Sunday's NASCAR race.
Marty Smith of nascar.com joins me now with more on the story.
Good to see you, Marty. Sorry it's over these circumstances.
MARTY SMITH, NASCAR.COM: Thank you, Kyra. Appreciate it. It is definitely an emotionally trying time for all of us.
PHILLIPS: Well, no doubt emotionally trying for Rick Hendrick. I mean, if you trace back, what, within the past 12 months, this man has lost many special people in his life.
SMITH: Yes. A couple months ago, he -- his father passed away. And his father really got him into racing. His love for racing was fostered by his father. And now, of course, with the plane crash he's losing his son, his brother, his nieces, his dearest friends, and most -- and some high executives in his company as well.
So, yes, a very, very emotionally tough time for Mr. Hendrick. And what a great man. You cannot speak kindly enough of him. So we are all going to rally around him and lift him up in this time.
PHILLIPS: Well, he's got a pretty amazing team. Looking now at the loss of his son -- we'll talk about Ricky in a minute -- why don't we talk about the impact on the company. I mean, this is a company that has known good racers for a really long time.
SMITH: It is. It's a profound impact. I mean, you're talking about Ricky Hendrick, who was really kind of the heir to the Hendrick throne, had really taken more of a leadership position in owning the five -- Number 5 Busch car, as well as the Number 25 Nextel Cup car.
Jeff Turner was also killed in that crash. He was the general manager of Hendrick Motorsports. John Hendrick, Mr. Hendrick's brother, was the president of the company.
And Randy Dorton was the head engine builder. The man was a genius, very innovative in the ways of preparing motors.
So all of those responsibilities are going to follow to other individuals now. And it is really -- the impact of that is incomprehensible. So, yes, I mean, it will be have a tremendous impact on the company as a whole.
PHILLIPS: And you mentioned Ricky, his son, and the impact he had on the company. Tell me about this driver development program that he created. Brian Vickers, one of the youngest -- I think he is stilt youngest driver in NASCAR, isn't he? Or is he -- is he still the youngest?
SMITH: At the Nextel Cup level, yes, ma'am.
PHILLIPS: OK. And Ricky basically discovered him. And then this program started, and the next thing you knew you had all the great young drivers becoming a part of NASCAR.
SMITH: Right. Ricky, he tried driving himself. But he did suffer a shoulder injury in 2002, and when he got back in the car after surgery he had lost some nerve. But during his time in the car he had seen something in Brian Vickers that he really, really was impressed by.
And when he tabbed Brian Vickers to drive the Number 5 Busch car after he let the seat go, a lot of people -- you know, a lot of eyebrows were raised. But obviously he had a phenomenal eye for talent.
Brian Vickers got in the Number 5 car and won a championship in his first year as a driver. So obviously a great decision on Ricky's part. And when -- the trend in NASCAR now is to hire drivers younger and younger and younger and try to bring them up through the ranks in your company, so to speak. And Ricky -- Mr. Hendrick turned that program as far as Hendrick is concerned around over to Ricky.
And so, obviously, once again, that responsibility will now fall to someone else. He had already signed three drivers in that capacity. So that will be very, very tough on the company as well.
PHILLIPS: Well, I guess the only, I guess, teeny bit of sunshine that happened in this weekend was that it was a Hendrick racer that won. Jimmie Johnson winning the race.
SMITH: Yes, a huge win for those guys, really lifted them up in the points, but obviously bittersweet. And Jimmie did not know that the plane had crashed until after he won the race.
So he never even got to celebrate the win. He parked the car on Pit Road (ph) after the race, and folks informed him of the tragedy that occurred. And he really never did -- they didn't even have victory lane.
So a bittersweet win for Jimmie, big for the company, though. You know, they're going to trudge on. That's kind of the way that we do it in NASCAR.
Dale Earnhardt died in 2001 and everyone thought that we'd never recover from. And the sport now, three years later, more than three years later is the biggest it's ever been, if not bigger.
So, once again, like I said, we're just going to rally around Mr. Hendrick and everyone there at Hendrick Motorsports. They have nearly 500 employees. So they're going to be fine, and we certainly -- our prayers and thoughts are with each and every one of them.
PHILLIPS: Marty Smith of nascar.com. Also, check out Marty's column today. It's pretty wonderful.
Marty, thanks for your time.
SMITH: Thank you so much. You guys have a good day.
PHILLIPS: You bet.
HARRIS: And even baseball fans in Boston and St. Louis are saddened by this news, like everyone else is, but at least the fans in Boston can celebrate another victory in their quest to win the World Series for the first time since 1918. The Boston Red Sox took game two over the St. Louis Cardinals last night, 6-2. That puts the Sox halfway to their goal of winning four games and the series. The excitement switches tomorrow night to St. Louis, where the Cards are undefeated in this year's post-season play.
Most people think their online computer is safe. But a new study shows some creepy things could be hiding in there. Rhonda Schaffler has the story at the New York Stock Exchange.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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Aired October 25, 2004 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with a health crisis for William Rehnquist. As CNN told you first, the chief justice of the United States, the second oldest man ever to hold that position, is a cancer patient today at Bethesda Naval Hospital, recovering from a tracheotomy on Saturday. We get the latest from CNN Justice correspondent Kelli Arena in Washington.
Hello, Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Hi there.
Well, as you said, the Supreme Court did put out an official statements say the chief justice underwent a tracheotomy on Saturday. That after being diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Now, no prognosis from his medical team or the court is being offered at this time, but the official word is that he'll be back on the bench November 1st, when the court reconvenes.
Now, Rehnquist just turned 80 years old, celebrated a big party with some of his clerks. Beside some back problems and a fall just about two years ago, he's been fairly healthy.
He's been on the bench since 1972, and he's been chief justice for the past 18 years. Now, he was catapulted into the public consciousness when he preside over the impeachment of then-president Bill Clinton and then again when he presided over the controversial Bush versus Gore decision just four years ago.
Now, news of his illness was very tightly held. One Supreme Court source tells CNN that at least one justice didn't even know about it until the news broke here on CNN.
And the fact that this came out just one week before the election is expected to put the possibility of a Supreme Court vacancy front and center. One analyst referred to it as the ultimate October surprise -- Tony.
HARRIS: And Kelli, what are you hearing privately about all this?
ARENA: Well, as you know, the official word is all is well, he'll be back November 1st. But very privately, sources are telling us that this is far more serious than the public statement will allow.
Everyone that we have spoken to describes the chief justice as a very proud and stubborn man, saying that if it is humanly possible, he will be on that bench, even if it is not exactly what his medical team is suggesting. Of course, that day, November 1st, just one day before the election, so a very pivotal time here.
But we are hearing that this is -- this is just far more serious. But I have to tell you that this is one very closed-mouth group of people. The Supreme Court notorious for its code of silence. We have been advised by many court watchers that no one will deviate from that official script for sure.
HARRIS: I know you'll be watching this very closely for us, Kelli. Kelli Arena, thank you.
ARENA: You're welcome.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now to that alphabet soup and super explosives unaccounted for in Iraq. As we've been reporting, the U.N.'s nuclear investigators sounding alarms over some 380 tons of non-nuclear ordinance, HMX, RDX, PETN that disappeared from a complex south of Baghdad. It's a site the U.N. was watching before the war and U.S. troops were supposed to be guarding after the war.
CNN's Barbara Starr following developments now from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, a lot of confusing details still emerging about this entire story. The Pentagon has asked troops in Iraq and the Iraqi Survey Group, which is affiliated, of course -- of course, with the CIA, to take over this entire situation.
This started about October 10, when the Iraqi interim government wrote to the IAEA in Vienna, saying that 380 tons of high explosives had disappeared from a site south of Baghdad, a place called Al Qaqaa, a very well-known weapons storage site under the regime of Saddam Hussein. About five days later, October 15, the IAEA tells the Pentagon about it -- the entire Bush administration, actually, and then the Pentagon orders this review. But what exactly are we talking about?
Well, according to sources here at the Pentagon, the IAEA had information as far back as January '03, before the war began, that there was a stockpile of high explosives at this site. After the war, after major combat ended, U.S. soldiers went to this area, they searched any number of bunkers and buildings, they found some explosives, but nothing that indicated this particular type of high explosive. That was roughly April '03.
Now fast-forward to October '04. And now the IAEA and the Pentagon is hearing that this 380-ton stockpile appears to be missing. No one knows where it, no one knows who is in charge of it and who's controlling it. Of course, the fear is it that it may have fallen into the hands of insurgents.
Now, there had been a lot of looting at these weapons storage places around Iraq. This material is of particular concern because of what it can do. In commercial uses, it is used for demolishing buildings. It's very powerful. In military uses, of course, it's for producing -- used in production of warheads on missiles and also for detonators for nuclear weapons. But again, the concern is now that it could be in the hands of insurgents.
But was it looted out of this facility? That's what people are trying to find out, because for anybody to move 380 tons of material, that would be quite an operation, one that would most likely be noticed. So this story hearkens back to basically springtime of '03 and what was going on in Iraq back then -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. So just to clarify -- I'm a little bit confused -- forgive me, Barbara -- did the U.S. military after the invasion know that the explosives were still there? And was it being guarded, you know, in the past couple months?
STARR: Well, I have to tell you, this is what Pentagon officials tell us they are trying to sort out today. Soldiers went there. They inspected that area, we are told, a few dozen times.
They went through bunkers, buildings, any number of facilities on the site which is quite large. They never found, we are told, the kinds of high explosives that have been raised now as a matter of concern so many months later.
So now the real question appears to be did the Iraq Survey Group know from the IAEA's information back in January '03, that they believe this material was there, and that it had gone missing? Because the real question, of course, Kyra, is how now in October '04 could people first discuss this magnitude of weapons inventory had gone missing? Wouldn't somebody have noticed before this?
So now people are going, government people are going to the Iraq Survey Group, trying to find out if they had more information about this facility, what they might have known, and perhaps whether they simply didn't want to make it public because of the security concerns. And now it's been made public by the new Iraqi government. All pretty confusing, Kyra, we're the first to admit. All a story that's still unfolding.
PHILLIPS: Well, you did a great job at sorting it out. Barbara Starr, thank you so much -- Tony.
HARRIS: Well, the world has more than ample evidence of the killing power of the compounds now unaccounted for somewhere in the world. Now, joining us now to outline the potential threats and perpetrators is international security expert Jim Walsh of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.
And good to talk to you.
JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, Tony.
HARRIS: Well, listening to Barbara Starr's report, do you now have any question as to whether or not these materials were there, and as to when they might have disappeared?
WALSH: Well, I thought the key phrase in Barbara's report was that in the spring of 2003, that the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA, believed that there were 380 tons of high explosive there. Now, the normal thing to do would have been to allow IAEA back into Iraq once the U.S. took control so that IAEA could verify that and then begin to protect it or move it out of the country.
Now, at the time, the U.S. government did not want to let IAEA in to those facilities. The IAEA requested it. I spoke to the director general, ElBaradei, myself. He had sent a letter, waited 40 days and never got a response. So somewhere in the window before the start of the war and probably in those first early months, I think that material was there and probably disappeared.
HARRIS: OK. This -- from the reporting we've done on it this morning and the work that Kyra did on it last hour, this sounds and feels like a really big deal. What do you think about it, Jim?
WALSH: Oh, yes, yes. This is a big deal. This is both disturbing and mind-boggling.
We're talking about military grade explosives. You know there are all sorts of explosives. There's TNT, there's all sorts of different things.
These are military-grade explosives. That means that they have a particularly strong impact. Small amounts can do a lot of damage. And they are so important, in fact, that they are the explosives you use if you want to try to kick-start a nuclear weapon.
When you have nuclear weapon, you have nuclear materials. But to get that chain reaction going, you surround it with special high explosive. That's what this high explosive is. So whether the looters or the insurgents use it for terrorist attacks, or whether it ends up in the hands of people who might want to make nuclear weapons, far even worse, it's bad news all around.
HARRIS: Any thoughts on who might be responsible for this?
WALSH: Well, I think Barbara raised a good question. If all the material were taken at one time, that is to say, all 380 tons at a time, that would point to an organized group of insurgents. It's just as possible that looters and criminals sort of took away, carted away some at a time over a longer period of time. But even if the looters have it, or the criminals have it, they can turn around and sell it to the insurgents. So either story is a bad one as far as the U.S. is concerned.
HARRIS: And Jim, bottom line, this thing for us, it was our responsible, the coalition forces' responsibility to safeguard this depot.
WALSH: That is the bottom line. We knew about it, we didn't act on it. And there's a terrible irony here. This war, we supposedly executed this war because we were concerned about mass destruction and terrorists. And yet the way we carried out the war, we created new opportunities for terrorists to get these powerful weapons. It's the exact opposite of what we said we were going to do. So I think it could be a terrible, terrible mistake.
HARRIS: Jim Walsh at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Jim, good to talk to you. Thank you.
WALSH: Thank you, Tony.
PHILLIPS: In other news out of Iraq today, no respite from deadly explosions in Baghdad. At least three civilians and a U.S. soldier are dead. Three Australian soldiers wounded in a series of attacks across the city. And in Mosul today, a pair of suicide car bombings killed at least three Iraqis and wounded several government workers.
And the government continues to investigate the slaughter of more than 40 newly-trained Iraqi soldiers over the weekend. The terror group of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has claimed responsibility for the single deadliest insurgent ambush since the invasion.
Eight days and counting. That's all the time the presidential candidates have to make an impression on voters before they head to the polls. The candidates are stumping hard in showdown states.
John Kerry is bringing out a Democratic big gun. Former President Clinton is campaigning in Pennsylvania with the senator today.
CNN's Frank Buckley joining us now live from Philly.
It was quite a show, Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really was, Kyra. This is the first time that Bill Clinton has appeared at a joint rally for the Kerry campaign with John Kerry. They have had appearances before, but this is their first campaign rally, and, as you said, it was quite an event here.
Many, many people on hand to see the two appearing together on Martin Luther King Boulevard here in downtown Philadelphia. President Clinton, of course, recovering from quadruple bypass surgery. The Kerry campaign has wanted him to come out, but his doctors haven't given the green light, we're told, until now.
President Clinton appeared fit and energetic. The former president saying, while he is known as the "comeback kid," Senator Kerry was going to make America the "comeback country." Former President Clinton then launching into a critique of the Bush administration, comparing the economic policies of the Bush administration and the numbers of the Bush administration to the numbers and policies of the Clinton administration, at one point saying that the budget surplus that was created during the Clinton years became a massive budget deficit under President Bush in part because of the tax cut that went to wealthy Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Leaving the burden of the deficit for my tax cut on the children of this country, that's their plan. John Kerry's got a better plan.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: He wants to repeal the tax cuts for those of us who have been fortunate enough to make a lot of money. He wants to finally give us a chance to make a contribution to America's economic recovery and to the fight against terrorism.
It's time. Most of us without regard to party want our chance to contribute to our country's welfare and our future. And we don't want our children and our grandchildren paying for the cost of our tax cuts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: The Kerry campaign hoping that form President Clinton will energize the Democratic base and also remind others of the prosperous times during the 1990s.
Here's what Senator Kerry had to say about President Clinton's appearance here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I asked the president before we came out here, I said, "Mr. President, can you tell me anything that you have in common with George W. Bush?" And he thought for a moment, and he said, "In eight days and 12 hours we will both be former presidents."
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: And now from here Senator Kerry will continue with his campaign this evening in Michigan and Wisconsin. Tomorrow, heading to Nevada.
And President Clinton will stay on the campaign trail later today. He will appear this evening in south Florida, and also appearing in a rally there tomorrow as well -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Frank Buckley live from Philly. Thanks so much -- Tony.
HARRIS: President Bush, meanwhile, is in the swing state of Colorado. He's showing a slight lead there in some recent polls. The president and first lady Laura Bush arrived in Greeley earlier today for a rally. Mr. Bush spoke about the war on terror and attacked John Kerry on his anti-war message. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The senator calls America's missions in Iraq a mistake, a diversion, a colossal error. And then he says he's the right man to win the war? You cannot win a war you do not believe in fighting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The president also had a big gun campaigning by his side. Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor, gave support for the president's war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We can't take a chance going back to where we were before September 11, 2001, with someone who can't seem to make up his mind whether the terrorism is serious or a nuisance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: President Bush will head to Iowa later today, and then on to Wisconsin.
A plane crash leaves NASCAR racers and fans stunned. How it might affect one of the most powerful teams in car racing just ahead.
And staying ahead of your heating bills this winter. Will it cost you a lot more or less to heat your home?
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kimberly Osias live in Redwood City. The stakes are high in the double murder trial of Scott Peterson. The question is now whether the lead defense attorney, Mark Geragos, can turn things around after the last witness floundered on the stand.
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PHILLIPS: Scott Peterson celebrated his birthday in jail over the weekend. Ironically, the age of Peterson's unborn son is the focus of testimony in his murder trial. The defense continues building its case today.
CNN's Kimberly Osias joins us live with details from Redwood City, California -- Kimberly.
OSIAS: Hello, Kyra.
Well, the second week of defense testimony began much like last week did, in closed-door evidentiary hearings. This one was a lot longer, in fact, than was anticipated.
The jurors were actually called an hour late to start, but they almost started about two hours late. Judge Alfred Delucchi, though, promised jurors that things would wrap up as scheduled, with closing arguments on the 1st and the 2nd, Election Day, and then deliberations to begin thereafter.
On the stand right now is lead investigator with the Modesto Police Department Craig Grogan, talking about the search warrants of the couple's Covina Avenue home. Also expected later today are forensic experts to talk about the time of death.
The big issue now is whether Mark Geragos will really be able to recover after his last witness, Dr. Charles March, an obstetrician- gynecologist, if he will be able to recover after he took the stand. Now, this gentleman was very, very strong in the morning, giving testimony to the fact that the fetus could not have been born before December 29. That is five days after Laci Peterson went missing and Scott Peterson was under close police scrutiny. That would have really vindicated Scott, and his family was looking forward to that initially.
Now, the afternoon, very, very opposed testimony. He seemed to really flounder on the stand. In fact, saying, "Can you cut me some slack here?" So really all eyes are on Mark Geragos and this witness and where things will go from here.
There are big discussions on both sides right now about the jury instructions, how they will proceed, and whether or not they will be given the option of second-degree murder in addition to first-degree murder. Those instructions will be given after closing arguments next week -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Kimberly Osias, live from Redwood City. Thanks -- Tony.
HARRIS: Trapped children become victims of a raging apartment fire in Ohio. That story tops our look at news "Across America."
Seven children from six months to seven years old were killed in the weekend fire. Firefighters in Toledo say they're not sure adults were inside when the blaze broke out. Officials haven't determined how the fire started.
With the nation's flu supply dangerously low, Illinois is turning to help from Britain. Governor Rod Blagojevich is seeking federal approval to buy flu vaccinations from British wholesalers. He wants at least 30,000 doses for nursing home residents.
And taking a bite out of crime. An FBI report finds violent crime is decreasing. The FBI's annual uniform crime report said violent crime such as manslaughter, rape and robbery dropped 3 percent last year. The only violent crime to increase was murder.
PHILLIPS: Well, musical miscue. Kind of like my miscue right there. Why Ashlee Simpson's performance is having some question whether "Live" should be taken out of "Saturday Night."
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler, and I am live from the New York Sock Exchange with a new warning about cyber safety. Details when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.
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PHILLIPS: Well, the world of motor sports is mourning the loss of all 10 people on board a plane owned by a major NASCAR racing organization. The victims were relatives and friend of Rick Hendrick, owner of Hendrick Motorsports. The plane went down in heavy fog in Martinsville, Virginia, site of Sunday's NASCAR race.
Marty Smith of nascar.com joins me now with more on the story.
Good to see you, Marty. Sorry it's over these circumstances.
MARTY SMITH, NASCAR.COM: Thank you, Kyra. Appreciate it. It is definitely an emotionally trying time for all of us.
PHILLIPS: Well, no doubt emotionally trying for Rick Hendrick. I mean, if you trace back, what, within the past 12 months, this man has lost many special people in his life.
SMITH: Yes. A couple months ago, he -- his father passed away. And his father really got him into racing. His love for racing was fostered by his father. And now, of course, with the plane crash he's losing his son, his brother, his nieces, his dearest friends, and most -- and some high executives in his company as well.
So, yes, a very, very emotionally tough time for Mr. Hendrick. And what a great man. You cannot speak kindly enough of him. So we are all going to rally around him and lift him up in this time.
PHILLIPS: Well, he's got a pretty amazing team. Looking now at the loss of his son -- we'll talk about Ricky in a minute -- why don't we talk about the impact on the company. I mean, this is a company that has known good racers for a really long time.
SMITH: It is. It's a profound impact. I mean, you're talking about Ricky Hendrick, who was really kind of the heir to the Hendrick throne, had really taken more of a leadership position in owning the five -- Number 5 Busch car, as well as the Number 25 Nextel Cup car.
Jeff Turner was also killed in that crash. He was the general manager of Hendrick Motorsports. John Hendrick, Mr. Hendrick's brother, was the president of the company.
And Randy Dorton was the head engine builder. The man was a genius, very innovative in the ways of preparing motors.
So all of those responsibilities are going to follow to other individuals now. And it is really -- the impact of that is incomprehensible. So, yes, I mean, it will be have a tremendous impact on the company as a whole.
PHILLIPS: And you mentioned Ricky, his son, and the impact he had on the company. Tell me about this driver development program that he created. Brian Vickers, one of the youngest -- I think he is stilt youngest driver in NASCAR, isn't he? Or is he -- is he still the youngest?
SMITH: At the Nextel Cup level, yes, ma'am.
PHILLIPS: OK. And Ricky basically discovered him. And then this program started, and the next thing you knew you had all the great young drivers becoming a part of NASCAR.
SMITH: Right. Ricky, he tried driving himself. But he did suffer a shoulder injury in 2002, and when he got back in the car after surgery he had lost some nerve. But during his time in the car he had seen something in Brian Vickers that he really, really was impressed by.
And when he tabbed Brian Vickers to drive the Number 5 Busch car after he let the seat go, a lot of people -- you know, a lot of eyebrows were raised. But obviously he had a phenomenal eye for talent.
Brian Vickers got in the Number 5 car and won a championship in his first year as a driver. So obviously a great decision on Ricky's part. And when -- the trend in NASCAR now is to hire drivers younger and younger and younger and try to bring them up through the ranks in your company, so to speak. And Ricky -- Mr. Hendrick turned that program as far as Hendrick is concerned around over to Ricky.
And so, obviously, once again, that responsibility will now fall to someone else. He had already signed three drivers in that capacity. So that will be very, very tough on the company as well.
PHILLIPS: Well, I guess the only, I guess, teeny bit of sunshine that happened in this weekend was that it was a Hendrick racer that won. Jimmie Johnson winning the race.
SMITH: Yes, a huge win for those guys, really lifted them up in the points, but obviously bittersweet. And Jimmie did not know that the plane had crashed until after he won the race.
So he never even got to celebrate the win. He parked the car on Pit Road (ph) after the race, and folks informed him of the tragedy that occurred. And he really never did -- they didn't even have victory lane.
So a bittersweet win for Jimmie, big for the company, though. You know, they're going to trudge on. That's kind of the way that we do it in NASCAR.
Dale Earnhardt died in 2001 and everyone thought that we'd never recover from. And the sport now, three years later, more than three years later is the biggest it's ever been, if not bigger.
So, once again, like I said, we're just going to rally around Mr. Hendrick and everyone there at Hendrick Motorsports. They have nearly 500 employees. So they're going to be fine, and we certainly -- our prayers and thoughts are with each and every one of them.
PHILLIPS: Marty Smith of nascar.com. Also, check out Marty's column today. It's pretty wonderful.
Marty, thanks for your time.
SMITH: Thank you so much. You guys have a good day.
PHILLIPS: You bet.
HARRIS: And even baseball fans in Boston and St. Louis are saddened by this news, like everyone else is, but at least the fans in Boston can celebrate another victory in their quest to win the World Series for the first time since 1918. The Boston Red Sox took game two over the St. Louis Cardinals last night, 6-2. That puts the Sox halfway to their goal of winning four games and the series. The excitement switches tomorrow night to St. Louis, where the Cards are undefeated in this year's post-season play.
Most people think their online computer is safe. But a new study shows some creepy things could be hiding in there. Rhonda Schaffler has the story at the New York Stock Exchange.
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