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Inside the Compound; Watching the Vote

Aired October 28, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories now in the news, star power on the campaign trail. Live pictures right now. The Boss, Bruce Springsteen, joins John Kerry for a couple appearances today. You're looking at these pictures in downtown Madison, Wisconsin. Springsteen is expected to sing here shortly.
We'll come back to it as soon as it happens.

And grisly new images out of Iraq, supposedly of 11 national guardsmen being killed. Video posted on a militant group's Web site shows the deaths of 11 people. The Iraqi government can't confirm who the victims are, but the militants claim they captured the Guardsmen recently.

At odds in Ramallah, Yasser Arafat's doctors want him to go to Paris for medical treatment. So far, Arafat says no. It's not clear what exactly is wrong with the 75-year-old Palestinian leader, but he is described as weak, exhausted, and seriously, seriously ill.

So how did Arafat get to this point, and what has life been like for the Palestinian leader who has been confined to his compound for two and a half years?

CNN international correspondent Michael Holmes was the only journalist to get into Ramallah when Arafat's compound came under attack after numerous suicide bombings in Israel in 2002.

The CNN Ramallah producer Sausan Ghosher, probably knows Yasser Arafat better than anyone at this network. I had the chance to talk to them both here in Atlanta just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Every time he wants you to come there for lunch, and he has a very bland diet, a lot of vegetables and stuff like that. It's not the tastiest lunch you've ever had.

PHILLIPS: It's fairly healthy, though, right?

HOLMES: It's fairly healthy, but he will almost force you to eat. And if you don't, he'll, you know, get a bit offended. And he'll, like hand you food off his plate and basically make you eat. Sometimes it's funny.

SAUSAN GHOSHER, CNN PRODUCER: And we would hand it to each other, each one trying to get rid of it. HOLMES: It's not always tasty.

PHILLIPS: You don't want to say no, and at the same time you don't really want to eat it.

GHOSHER: Michael, you should try it. I've tried it before, but you should really try it.

We've been making faces at each other. But he sits at the head of this very long table, and he has some of his aides around. Every day there's a lunch. And, you know, you'd sit there and have these lunches, and he'd chat very openly.

And depending on his mood of the day, that determined whether it would be a very lively -- he could make jokes and all this sort of stuff, or sometimes he'd just be very quiet, or even angry, depressed, perhaps.

And what Sausan says about the sunlight is true. I remember going there one time, and it's like his skin was translucent. He looked incredibly unhealthy. I saw him two months later, and he looked great. So he's not a guy that's easily put down.

GHOSHER: Also, he's exercising a lot. Ever since we've looked at videos of Yasser Arafat, even before he came back to Gaza or the West Bank, you always see him jogging, and he was exercising. Last time we were there, we asked him, what are you doing for exercising? He says, only walk around this table. So he walks in circles around this table as a form of exercise.

HOLMES: He has no where else to go. He will sometimes, when there's no fighting or something, he'll go to prayers, which basically involves walking 20 feet to the mosque, and that's about it, or he'll come out on the steps and make a brief statement. Apart from that, he's in there 24/7. It really is like a prison for him.

GHOSHER: And he divides his working days into two. So he actually works two eight-hour shifts. He sleeps a couple hours at night and a couple of hours in the afternoon. And he works eight-hour shifts. And now recently, we've heard that he's having -- since the incursions into Ramallah, he's been having difficulty sleeping, and he's taking some sleeping pills as well.

HOLMES: We're talking like he'll sleep four hours a day. I mean, he really, he just can't sleep.

PHILLIPS: Did either one of you at any time feel that you got truly into his soul, insight into what makes this man tick?

GHOSHER: It's very difficult to get into Arafat's soul. He's not an easy person. He's very smart, and sometimes manipulative. Sometimes he wants you to feel more of -- what he's trying to tell you, he'll -- he's not always honest with you and up front.

But one thing -- I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, he has the feeling, he truly believes that he is Palestine, and Palestine is him. And that he will -- he's the one who will save the Palestinians. He's the one who is their father figure. And even if he's wrong, he's wrong as a father. That's how he believes it, in his mind. If he dies, Palestine dies. And if he lives, Palestine lives.

HOLMES: He truly believes that, that he is the father of Palestine, and there can be no one else. And in a way, he deserves it, too. And he demands the respect as the person he sees himself as. But yes, I agree with Sausan, I've never really left a meeting with him and felt that I've gotten to really know the man, because he's in that role the whole time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, you can see more of my interview with Michael Holmes and Sausan Ghosher in the next hour of LIVE FROM.

Meanwhile, I'm being told it is confirmed that Yasser Arafat will be going to Paris for treatment. He'll take a chopper out of Ramallah to Amman, Jordan, and then he'll take a flight into Paris. This should happen sometime after Midnight Eastern Time, which, of course, is Friday morning there in Ramallah. So once again, we have confirmed that Arafat has changed his mind, he will go for treatment in Paris, France. As you know, that's where his wife and 8-year-old daughter have also been living.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let the challenges begin. Claims of election-related dirty deeds and chicanery are already flying. They have to do with the process of signing people up to vote.

CNN's Dan Lothian reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): In the race to register voters, all sides seem to be crying foul. This former employee of Republican Party contractor Sproul & Associates claims the script she was given to get potential voters to register prohibited her from signing up Democrats in West Virginia.

LISA BRAGG, FORMER SPROUL EMPLOYEE: I just thought it was deceptive and strange.

LOTHIAN: This ex-employee of ACORN, a citizens activist group widely seen as leaning Democrat, has charged that ACORN improperly registered voters in Florida.

JOE JOHNSON, FORMER ACORN EMPLOYEE: I saw some things I was very uncomfortable with.

LOTHIAN: ACORN fired back.

STEVEN KEST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACORN: There's no fraud going on here, at least on our side.

LOTHIAN: In a statement, Sproul & Associates charged, Democrats were -- quote -- "alleging fraud where none exists." (on camera): But they are dogged by complaints, allegations of fraud or voter suppressions in some battleground states like Ohio, Florida and Nevada, ACORN workers accused of forging signatures, groups tied to Sproul accused of destroying registration forms. Both are being investigated in various states.

(voice-over): Nathan Sproul, who owns Sproul and Associates, once led Arizona's Republican Party. The Republican National Committee has paid his firm $2.8 million to register voters, using this company staffed with temp workers. ACORN, which stands for Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claims to be nonpartisan. The group is involved in helping low-income working families, relies on fund-raisers and says it has registered 1.1 million new voters this year.

MIT political science professor Charles Stewart says allegations of fraud and suppression can have unintended consequences.

CHARLES STEWART, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, MIT: It turns off voters, new voters, or people who have always wanted to vote and have wondered whether it's worth their while.

LOTHIAN: And whether true or false, some voters say the process is ugly.

TORY HAYNE, VOTER: It's very appalling to think that any organization, Republican or Democrat, would take away our God-given right to vote.

LOTHIAN: Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: But what God has given, mortals are in charge of protecting. And in this case, with a careful eye and the consequences to their party, their candidate. Keeping things straight on Election Day is in itself a politicized process, and both parties would agree that really is bad news for the republic.

Let's turn to Chicago, two men who will be keeping a close eye on everything on Tuesday. Doug Ibendahl is a Republican attorney, member of the Ballot Integrity Project. Paul Johnson, Illinois state polling representative.

Paul, let's begin with you. Are Democrats preemptively calling this election a fraud? And if so, why?

PAUL JOHNSON, ILLINOIS POLLING OBSERVER: Well, I don't necessarily -- I don't subscribe to that. My role is in Illinois. And I am observing polls in Illinois. We are -- we have a very uncompetitive race in Illinois, both the general election and in the Senate, and I don't anticipate any problems.

But generally, I don't think we should, you know, again, when people are calling preemptively there's fraud or manipulation, I don't believe that -- we should give the process a chance, and it's not a real issue for me personally right here. I think we should lay off that argument.

O'BRIEN: Doug, do you agree on that one?

DOUG IBENDAHL, BALLOT INTEGRITY PROJECT: Well, I do agree that we shouldn't be talking about preemption. Look, everyone has a civil right to vote. That's a civil right. Everyone also has a civil right to make sure that their vote isn't diluted or eliminated by the fraudulent vote of others.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that's reasonable.

So, Paul, where are you going to be on Election Day? What will you be looking for? What is your biggest concern?

JOHNSON: Well, my area in the Chicago Cook County is to observe polls, polling stations, behavior. There are -- what we have now, there was an act of Congress that was called the Help America Vote Act and passed in 2002 which allowed for provisional voting. And my area now will be to focus really on provisional voting, where if someone doesn't demonstrate the proper credentials or if they're signing things or -- well, not appearance -- I mean, I do have that right to challenge people based on, you know, I guess inconsistencies.

But it's to look and observe where there is manipulations, possible tampering, people helping voters into the polling booth or, in our case, around where they actually cast a ballot where they shouldn't be. So, I would be there, and I would be reporting it. I'm not to address individual members -- that is, you know, people that are casting a ballot. I'm addressing the judges of elections and the reporting to the actual party or candidate.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to believe there would be irregularities in Cook County. But Doug, let me ask you, you're not focusing...

JOHNSON: What are you suggesting, Miles?

O'BRIEN: Nothing.

JOHNSON: Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Those are ancient history. Let's talk about where you're going to be, what you're worried about. And this whole notion of judges being there, I'm not sure people are really aware of how much poll workers are being watched by respective parties, by independent judges and how all of this gets into a political realm very quickly.

IBENDAHL: Yes. I'm going to be spending volunteering as a Republican lawyer in Wisconsin. You know, the Democrats are bragging about the 30,000 lawyers -- Democratic lawyers that they're going to have on the ground on Election Day. So, we Republicans need to have a few, also.

And you know, we're not there to interfere with anyone. This is all about ensuring, making certain that every legal vote counts. Simple as that. O'BRIEN: But certainty is the problem, of course, because no matter what your efforts are, people can always say that things happen behind your back because there just aren't enough people to watch all these elections -- who would be considered completely unbiased.

Paul, with that in mind, is there any way that, on the day after the election, people are going to accept what those numbers are, I guess, short of a landslide?

JOHNSON: Well, now you're in the business -- now, you would say reporting news, but I believe there are possibly competing interests that would like to, you know, create a whole different cottage industry of controversy where it's a two percent split in the general election where you have -- I know Doug's side is saying, you know, if we lose by one-and-a-half percent, we're filing an appeal immediately. I know this side says the same thing. And that's really -- that is really not healthy for the health of this republic at all.

And I am concerned -- again, not in Illinois, but in states where they have motor voter or same-day registration where Doug and I have talked, where there is going to be, again, maybe 500 votes, 2,500 -- again, I'm assuming worst-case scenario -- where you're going to have people who don't accept this outcome. And you know, internationally, it's going to be looked at as this is a big comedy. And that's terribly unfortunate, and we have to solve this problem.

O'BRIEN: I should say so. But it just absolutely astounds me that four years after that debacle that we witnessed -- and I know you were there firsthand, Doug, you were down there...

IBENDAHL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... in Broward County, four years after that debacle, that we're having this discussion, after we saw those people going through those chads, you know, turning cross-eyed as they looked at them, we're still having this discussion. Why?

IBENDAHL: Yes, this is very unusual. I mean, this is very historic that we've had two such close elections back to back. This is very unusual. I think they've made a lot of improvements in Florida with the electronic voting, the touchscreen. I think that will make a big difference.

O'BRIEN: Oh, I don't think that's a silver bullet, do you? I think it's going to cause just as many problems as it's supposed to solve.

IBENDAHL: Well, look, democracy is never perfect. It's never perfect. But it's certainly the best thing the world has ever known. And that is why, you know, more transparency we can have, you know, the better the poll workers, the better the observers, you know, the more honest and the more confidence people are going to have in the result Tuesday night.

O'BRIEN: Well, having that confidence, Paul, is the key, obviously. Confidence that even if there's a dispute, that the end result is not viewed through a political prism. Is that possible?

JOHNSON: Well, again, because now we have, you know, everyone -- both sides say this is a critical election. We have the vice president who says, you know, if the wrong man wins, you know, it's terrible for the country. Well, you know, both sides should, you know, subscribe to that argument.

But my fear, honestly, is that we have, after the election, this whole provisional voting -- if I can, you know, bring back this in -- you're moving this same-day kind of responsibility to make sure people are who they are, where you're dumping it on the back end where people are supposed to verify and quality assure the actual people who have filed provisional votes in states like, you know, again like Illinois or Wisconsin.

And again, people aren't going to know maybe in this country who -- and internationally aren't going to know who the president of the U.S. is conceivably two, three weeks after. Now, again, if that's -- if the margin of error of the general election is wide.

O'BRIEN: All right. Final quick thought. Go ahead.

IBENDAHL: Well, I think Paul and I can agree on something there. I think the provisional ballots have the potential to be, you know, the pregnant chad of this election.

O'BRIEN: Provisional ballots. There's a term. If you don't know it, get used to it now. You're going to be hearing a lot about it. Doug Ibendahl and Paul Johnson, we're going to be looking at polls in Illinois and around that part of the world -- Wisconsin, as well -- on Election Day.

We wish you well. And by all means, do whatever you can to keep it fair and honest.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Miles.

IBENDAHL: Thank you. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: All right -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Red Sox fans still partying in Boston. That's fairly predictable, really, but the joy is not limited to Beantown. Fans all over the world are celebrating. TV star Michael Chiklis is a big Sox fan. He's going to share the moment with us live right after a quick break.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Delta Airlines in bankruptcy -- the phrase has become familiar to us all, but the pilots coughed up some big dough. It really wasn't even 11th hour -- it was more like 11:59, wouldn't you say?

PHILLIPS: It's going to affect Atlanta, too. You know how many Delta employees live here?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, I do know...

PHILLIPS: There you go. Rhonda Schaffler, what's the latest?

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures. Madison, Wisconsin. That's Governor Jim Doyle who, I guess a big Springsteen fan, or at least for today he is.

As Frank Buckley was estimating, upwards of 30,000, perhaps 40,000 people there in Madison.

Are they there to see John Kerry or are they there to see The Boss? We don't know. But nevertheless, they are there.

Let's listen for a moment as the man -- well, he was born to run. Maybe he should be a candidate.

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, ENTERTAINER: I think it's going to be the governor's last appearance as my opening act. I'm not sure. Well, it looks like Senator Kerry draws a pretty good crowd.

(SINGING)

O'BRIEN: Bruce Springsteen, pride and joy of New Jersey, Ashbury Park, there in Wisconsin, stumping for John Kerry, singing about the promised land. How many of those people are there for Kerry, how many for Springsteen? Well, you be the judge.

PHILLIPS: Don't forget Madison, Wisconsin, one of the biggest times for Madison is Halloween weekend. So actually, half are dressed up as Kerry fans, the other half as Bush fans.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that's it for this hour of LIVE FROM. Bruce, play us to break.

(SINGING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired October 28, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories now in the news, star power on the campaign trail. Live pictures right now. The Boss, Bruce Springsteen, joins John Kerry for a couple appearances today. You're looking at these pictures in downtown Madison, Wisconsin. Springsteen is expected to sing here shortly.
We'll come back to it as soon as it happens.

And grisly new images out of Iraq, supposedly of 11 national guardsmen being killed. Video posted on a militant group's Web site shows the deaths of 11 people. The Iraqi government can't confirm who the victims are, but the militants claim they captured the Guardsmen recently.

At odds in Ramallah, Yasser Arafat's doctors want him to go to Paris for medical treatment. So far, Arafat says no. It's not clear what exactly is wrong with the 75-year-old Palestinian leader, but he is described as weak, exhausted, and seriously, seriously ill.

So how did Arafat get to this point, and what has life been like for the Palestinian leader who has been confined to his compound for two and a half years?

CNN international correspondent Michael Holmes was the only journalist to get into Ramallah when Arafat's compound came under attack after numerous suicide bombings in Israel in 2002.

The CNN Ramallah producer Sausan Ghosher, probably knows Yasser Arafat better than anyone at this network. I had the chance to talk to them both here in Atlanta just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Every time he wants you to come there for lunch, and he has a very bland diet, a lot of vegetables and stuff like that. It's not the tastiest lunch you've ever had.

PHILLIPS: It's fairly healthy, though, right?

HOLMES: It's fairly healthy, but he will almost force you to eat. And if you don't, he'll, you know, get a bit offended. And he'll, like hand you food off his plate and basically make you eat. Sometimes it's funny.

SAUSAN GHOSHER, CNN PRODUCER: And we would hand it to each other, each one trying to get rid of it. HOLMES: It's not always tasty.

PHILLIPS: You don't want to say no, and at the same time you don't really want to eat it.

GHOSHER: Michael, you should try it. I've tried it before, but you should really try it.

We've been making faces at each other. But he sits at the head of this very long table, and he has some of his aides around. Every day there's a lunch. And, you know, you'd sit there and have these lunches, and he'd chat very openly.

And depending on his mood of the day, that determined whether it would be a very lively -- he could make jokes and all this sort of stuff, or sometimes he'd just be very quiet, or even angry, depressed, perhaps.

And what Sausan says about the sunlight is true. I remember going there one time, and it's like his skin was translucent. He looked incredibly unhealthy. I saw him two months later, and he looked great. So he's not a guy that's easily put down.

GHOSHER: Also, he's exercising a lot. Ever since we've looked at videos of Yasser Arafat, even before he came back to Gaza or the West Bank, you always see him jogging, and he was exercising. Last time we were there, we asked him, what are you doing for exercising? He says, only walk around this table. So he walks in circles around this table as a form of exercise.

HOLMES: He has no where else to go. He will sometimes, when there's no fighting or something, he'll go to prayers, which basically involves walking 20 feet to the mosque, and that's about it, or he'll come out on the steps and make a brief statement. Apart from that, he's in there 24/7. It really is like a prison for him.

GHOSHER: And he divides his working days into two. So he actually works two eight-hour shifts. He sleeps a couple hours at night and a couple of hours in the afternoon. And he works eight-hour shifts. And now recently, we've heard that he's having -- since the incursions into Ramallah, he's been having difficulty sleeping, and he's taking some sleeping pills as well.

HOLMES: We're talking like he'll sleep four hours a day. I mean, he really, he just can't sleep.

PHILLIPS: Did either one of you at any time feel that you got truly into his soul, insight into what makes this man tick?

GHOSHER: It's very difficult to get into Arafat's soul. He's not an easy person. He's very smart, and sometimes manipulative. Sometimes he wants you to feel more of -- what he's trying to tell you, he'll -- he's not always honest with you and up front.

But one thing -- I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, he has the feeling, he truly believes that he is Palestine, and Palestine is him. And that he will -- he's the one who will save the Palestinians. He's the one who is their father figure. And even if he's wrong, he's wrong as a father. That's how he believes it, in his mind. If he dies, Palestine dies. And if he lives, Palestine lives.

HOLMES: He truly believes that, that he is the father of Palestine, and there can be no one else. And in a way, he deserves it, too. And he demands the respect as the person he sees himself as. But yes, I agree with Sausan, I've never really left a meeting with him and felt that I've gotten to really know the man, because he's in that role the whole time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, you can see more of my interview with Michael Holmes and Sausan Ghosher in the next hour of LIVE FROM.

Meanwhile, I'm being told it is confirmed that Yasser Arafat will be going to Paris for treatment. He'll take a chopper out of Ramallah to Amman, Jordan, and then he'll take a flight into Paris. This should happen sometime after Midnight Eastern Time, which, of course, is Friday morning there in Ramallah. So once again, we have confirmed that Arafat has changed his mind, he will go for treatment in Paris, France. As you know, that's where his wife and 8-year-old daughter have also been living.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let the challenges begin. Claims of election-related dirty deeds and chicanery are already flying. They have to do with the process of signing people up to vote.

CNN's Dan Lothian reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): In the race to register voters, all sides seem to be crying foul. This former employee of Republican Party contractor Sproul & Associates claims the script she was given to get potential voters to register prohibited her from signing up Democrats in West Virginia.

LISA BRAGG, FORMER SPROUL EMPLOYEE: I just thought it was deceptive and strange.

LOTHIAN: This ex-employee of ACORN, a citizens activist group widely seen as leaning Democrat, has charged that ACORN improperly registered voters in Florida.

JOE JOHNSON, FORMER ACORN EMPLOYEE: I saw some things I was very uncomfortable with.

LOTHIAN: ACORN fired back.

STEVEN KEST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACORN: There's no fraud going on here, at least on our side.

LOTHIAN: In a statement, Sproul & Associates charged, Democrats were -- quote -- "alleging fraud where none exists." (on camera): But they are dogged by complaints, allegations of fraud or voter suppressions in some battleground states like Ohio, Florida and Nevada, ACORN workers accused of forging signatures, groups tied to Sproul accused of destroying registration forms. Both are being investigated in various states.

(voice-over): Nathan Sproul, who owns Sproul and Associates, once led Arizona's Republican Party. The Republican National Committee has paid his firm $2.8 million to register voters, using this company staffed with temp workers. ACORN, which stands for Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claims to be nonpartisan. The group is involved in helping low-income working families, relies on fund-raisers and says it has registered 1.1 million new voters this year.

MIT political science professor Charles Stewart says allegations of fraud and suppression can have unintended consequences.

CHARLES STEWART, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, MIT: It turns off voters, new voters, or people who have always wanted to vote and have wondered whether it's worth their while.

LOTHIAN: And whether true or false, some voters say the process is ugly.

TORY HAYNE, VOTER: It's very appalling to think that any organization, Republican or Democrat, would take away our God-given right to vote.

LOTHIAN: Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: But what God has given, mortals are in charge of protecting. And in this case, with a careful eye and the consequences to their party, their candidate. Keeping things straight on Election Day is in itself a politicized process, and both parties would agree that really is bad news for the republic.

Let's turn to Chicago, two men who will be keeping a close eye on everything on Tuesday. Doug Ibendahl is a Republican attorney, member of the Ballot Integrity Project. Paul Johnson, Illinois state polling representative.

Paul, let's begin with you. Are Democrats preemptively calling this election a fraud? And if so, why?

PAUL JOHNSON, ILLINOIS POLLING OBSERVER: Well, I don't necessarily -- I don't subscribe to that. My role is in Illinois. And I am observing polls in Illinois. We are -- we have a very uncompetitive race in Illinois, both the general election and in the Senate, and I don't anticipate any problems.

But generally, I don't think we should, you know, again, when people are calling preemptively there's fraud or manipulation, I don't believe that -- we should give the process a chance, and it's not a real issue for me personally right here. I think we should lay off that argument.

O'BRIEN: Doug, do you agree on that one?

DOUG IBENDAHL, BALLOT INTEGRITY PROJECT: Well, I do agree that we shouldn't be talking about preemption. Look, everyone has a civil right to vote. That's a civil right. Everyone also has a civil right to make sure that their vote isn't diluted or eliminated by the fraudulent vote of others.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that's reasonable.

So, Paul, where are you going to be on Election Day? What will you be looking for? What is your biggest concern?

JOHNSON: Well, my area in the Chicago Cook County is to observe polls, polling stations, behavior. There are -- what we have now, there was an act of Congress that was called the Help America Vote Act and passed in 2002 which allowed for provisional voting. And my area now will be to focus really on provisional voting, where if someone doesn't demonstrate the proper credentials or if they're signing things or -- well, not appearance -- I mean, I do have that right to challenge people based on, you know, I guess inconsistencies.

But it's to look and observe where there is manipulations, possible tampering, people helping voters into the polling booth or, in our case, around where they actually cast a ballot where they shouldn't be. So, I would be there, and I would be reporting it. I'm not to address individual members -- that is, you know, people that are casting a ballot. I'm addressing the judges of elections and the reporting to the actual party or candidate.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to believe there would be irregularities in Cook County. But Doug, let me ask you, you're not focusing...

JOHNSON: What are you suggesting, Miles?

O'BRIEN: Nothing.

JOHNSON: Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Those are ancient history. Let's talk about where you're going to be, what you're worried about. And this whole notion of judges being there, I'm not sure people are really aware of how much poll workers are being watched by respective parties, by independent judges and how all of this gets into a political realm very quickly.

IBENDAHL: Yes. I'm going to be spending volunteering as a Republican lawyer in Wisconsin. You know, the Democrats are bragging about the 30,000 lawyers -- Democratic lawyers that they're going to have on the ground on Election Day. So, we Republicans need to have a few, also.

And you know, we're not there to interfere with anyone. This is all about ensuring, making certain that every legal vote counts. Simple as that. O'BRIEN: But certainty is the problem, of course, because no matter what your efforts are, people can always say that things happen behind your back because there just aren't enough people to watch all these elections -- who would be considered completely unbiased.

Paul, with that in mind, is there any way that, on the day after the election, people are going to accept what those numbers are, I guess, short of a landslide?

JOHNSON: Well, now you're in the business -- now, you would say reporting news, but I believe there are possibly competing interests that would like to, you know, create a whole different cottage industry of controversy where it's a two percent split in the general election where you have -- I know Doug's side is saying, you know, if we lose by one-and-a-half percent, we're filing an appeal immediately. I know this side says the same thing. And that's really -- that is really not healthy for the health of this republic at all.

And I am concerned -- again, not in Illinois, but in states where they have motor voter or same-day registration where Doug and I have talked, where there is going to be, again, maybe 500 votes, 2,500 -- again, I'm assuming worst-case scenario -- where you're going to have people who don't accept this outcome. And you know, internationally, it's going to be looked at as this is a big comedy. And that's terribly unfortunate, and we have to solve this problem.

O'BRIEN: I should say so. But it just absolutely astounds me that four years after that debacle that we witnessed -- and I know you were there firsthand, Doug, you were down there...

IBENDAHL: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... in Broward County, four years after that debacle, that we're having this discussion, after we saw those people going through those chads, you know, turning cross-eyed as they looked at them, we're still having this discussion. Why?

IBENDAHL: Yes, this is very unusual. I mean, this is very historic that we've had two such close elections back to back. This is very unusual. I think they've made a lot of improvements in Florida with the electronic voting, the touchscreen. I think that will make a big difference.

O'BRIEN: Oh, I don't think that's a silver bullet, do you? I think it's going to cause just as many problems as it's supposed to solve.

IBENDAHL: Well, look, democracy is never perfect. It's never perfect. But it's certainly the best thing the world has ever known. And that is why, you know, more transparency we can have, you know, the better the poll workers, the better the observers, you know, the more honest and the more confidence people are going to have in the result Tuesday night.

O'BRIEN: Well, having that confidence, Paul, is the key, obviously. Confidence that even if there's a dispute, that the end result is not viewed through a political prism. Is that possible?

JOHNSON: Well, again, because now we have, you know, everyone -- both sides say this is a critical election. We have the vice president who says, you know, if the wrong man wins, you know, it's terrible for the country. Well, you know, both sides should, you know, subscribe to that argument.

But my fear, honestly, is that we have, after the election, this whole provisional voting -- if I can, you know, bring back this in -- you're moving this same-day kind of responsibility to make sure people are who they are, where you're dumping it on the back end where people are supposed to verify and quality assure the actual people who have filed provisional votes in states like, you know, again like Illinois or Wisconsin.

And again, people aren't going to know maybe in this country who -- and internationally aren't going to know who the president of the U.S. is conceivably two, three weeks after. Now, again, if that's -- if the margin of error of the general election is wide.

O'BRIEN: All right. Final quick thought. Go ahead.

IBENDAHL: Well, I think Paul and I can agree on something there. I think the provisional ballots have the potential to be, you know, the pregnant chad of this election.

O'BRIEN: Provisional ballots. There's a term. If you don't know it, get used to it now. You're going to be hearing a lot about it. Doug Ibendahl and Paul Johnson, we're going to be looking at polls in Illinois and around that part of the world -- Wisconsin, as well -- on Election Day.

We wish you well. And by all means, do whatever you can to keep it fair and honest.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Miles.

IBENDAHL: Thank you. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: All right -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Red Sox fans still partying in Boston. That's fairly predictable, really, but the joy is not limited to Beantown. Fans all over the world are celebrating. TV star Michael Chiklis is a big Sox fan. He's going to share the moment with us live right after a quick break.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN.

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O'BRIEN: Delta Airlines in bankruptcy -- the phrase has become familiar to us all, but the pilots coughed up some big dough. It really wasn't even 11th hour -- it was more like 11:59, wouldn't you say?

PHILLIPS: It's going to affect Atlanta, too. You know how many Delta employees live here?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, I do know...

PHILLIPS: There you go. Rhonda Schaffler, what's the latest?

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures. Madison, Wisconsin. That's Governor Jim Doyle who, I guess a big Springsteen fan, or at least for today he is.

As Frank Buckley was estimating, upwards of 30,000, perhaps 40,000 people there in Madison.

Are they there to see John Kerry or are they there to see The Boss? We don't know. But nevertheless, they are there.

Let's listen for a moment as the man -- well, he was born to run. Maybe he should be a candidate.

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, ENTERTAINER: I think it's going to be the governor's last appearance as my opening act. I'm not sure. Well, it looks like Senator Kerry draws a pretty good crowd.

(SINGING)

O'BRIEN: Bruce Springsteen, pride and joy of New Jersey, Ashbury Park, there in Wisconsin, stumping for John Kerry, singing about the promised land. How many of those people are there for Kerry, how many for Springsteen? Well, you be the judge.

PHILLIPS: Don't forget Madison, Wisconsin, one of the biggest times for Madison is Halloween weekend. So actually, half are dressed up as Kerry fans, the other half as Bush fans.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, that's it for this hour of LIVE FROM. Bruce, play us to break.

(SINGING)

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